/lit/ - Literature

>>18026737
Liberalism was the inevitable consequence of Abrahamism
Take the Vargpill

W-why did it fail?

Go away Patrick

>>18026737
I don't see it failing.

>18026791
Not even worth a (You)

>>18026791
>less racism than ever
>but race riots getting worse
>women have equal civil rights and more cultural privileges than ever
>but radical feminism growing regardless
>fewer people below the poverty line than ever
>but socialism and communism becoming increasingly popular
>more ability to hold government and police officials accountable than ever
>but corruption in both is continuously getting worse
>more resources for public education than ever
>but academic standards gradually lowering
>more peaceful cultural plurality than ever
>but minority-majority cultural friction getting worse anyway

I could go on.

>>18026880
that only reinforces liberalism. It's a complete psy op.

>>18026907
what did you mean by this

>>18026940
Not that guy but I'm guessing he means the fact that now matter how bad things get people will still believe it's the opposite and even defend this themselves.

>>18026963
It is a psyop, but it goes a bit deeper than that. In my personal view the reason why Liberalism imploded so quickly is because it gradually became overwhelmed with ressentiment. Because of how much society has degenerated since 1991 a veneer of angst has enveloped the populace. People don't address core issues with the world and its design, nor do they analyze why we’ve fallen into institutional and cultural malaise. They’re taking the already existing sentiments of individual liberty and tolerance, recognizing that these ideals aren’t satisfying most of the populace, but instead of seeking alternatives or solutions, they’re doubling down and imploding into tribalism that blames other groups for not fulfilling these ideals or demanding that these sentiments are even more amplified. That's all that Progressivism is. It's not Marxism, it's not postmodernism, it's just Liberalism in a pathetic and anxious decline. There are so many examples of how the system is working as intended yet people are pretending that we haven't TRULY tried Liberalism, and every issue we encounter is just because of Muslims or white supremacy or whatever. This anon >>18026880 has some good examples. Liberalism is reinforcing itself with ressentiment although betraying its original principles to be more left-leaning and accommodating to minorities. That's why it's so institutional and widespread in our culture.

>>18027042
It's not just that people are defaulting to tribalism. It's enormously profitable to deceive people into believing they are part of a particular group with a particular identity, and that said group and identity are constantly under attack.
>Are you X? Of course you are, cool people are X, and you're cool, aren't you?
>Cool X people like you are what make the world as great as it is, and buying our product is just the way to help with that.
>Here, come hang out with other Xs and nobody else, they're reasonable people, you can tell because they listen to us just like you.
>Uh oh, looks like some filthy Ys are headed this way. Oh you've never heard of the Ys? Yeah they're trying to undermine your way of life, destroy your culture, violate your values, and just generally oppress you and those you care about.
>Don't listen to them, not even for a second, they're all ridiculous exaggerated 1-dimensional caricatures of people so don't even bother. Here, we've prepared this video presentation that totally isn't radicalizing propaganda pretending to be harmless entertainment.
>Oh look, you're even more militant about being an X, how convenie- I mean, inspiring! Brave! Something like that. You go girl/bro/comrade/ally! You be you! Just don't forget to consume product! Consume all of it before they take it away!
>After all, it is all THEIR fault problems exist, you're completely right about everything. You know how we know? You buy our products. They don't buy our products, and everything would be going just fine if it weren't for them.
>btw don't go outside in the real world

People are being corralled like cattle into the merchant's echo chambers with no regard for the consequences.

>>18027042
>>18027155
aight, how do we kill liberalism then and what should it be replaced with

>>18027202
I don't know. That's the problem we have. It's too hegemonic. Every issue we have today comes from Liberalism yet people are pretending that it isn't Liberalism at all. We're sort of trapped in a political deadlock and at this point it seems we're either going to destroy ourselves or slowly degenerate until the people in power finally admit how much they fucked up. There's so much uncertainty right now and it's easy to get anxious over the future, especially with players like China clearly showing that authoritarian governance is more competent than Liberalism currently is.

>>18027224
OK chang

>>18026880
[citation needed]

>>18027583
bruh have you looked into going outside, what on that list could you possibly not already be aware of

>>18027224
It's not that every issue comes from liberalism, it's that liberalism is a perfect operating system for manufacturing numerous issues simultaneously that would otherwise be exclusive by a factor of a fucking gorillion. The issue "caused" by liberalism is that some fill-in-the-blank political faction is overthrowing the country god save us all, the real issue is that every individual is genuinely convinced that whatever political faction Google adsense imagined was the opposite of them is overthrowing the country and rebooting liberalism with your own Google adsense approved extremist sprinkles on top. Nobody understands how anything actually works and believes that if they just crank one thing up to fucking 11 and kill all the not-thems the world will be saved.

Money is a meta-form of politics. Google is an authoritarian left leaning association that will happily take money from Nazis and Ancaps and the like to help funnel them into their convenient little corners. Fucking transcendent motive 5d chess kind of shit. Fuck I'm high.

>>18027802
>IT JUST IS OKAY???

lay off the polshit

>>18027805
no seriously what have you not learned from just existing in the world around you don't deflect

>>18027805
Are you being willfully ignorant or are just that dense? Nobody has to walk outside and not say the wrong thing in fear of getting their tongues cut out. Women aren't treated as property anymore, and minorities are treated better here than in there native countries, yet they still bitch and moan that they don't have enough rights and opportunities when in fact they are miles better than what the third world offers.

>>18027821
What have you?

>>18027890
everything I said nigga thats why I said try to keep up

>>18026880
only a literal basement dwelling incel who wastes 20 hours a day online could possibly believe this nonsense
imagine genuinely unironically believing there is even a slightest chance of communism ever being a serious threat to the established order ever again
lol just lol
delete your twitter account my dude it's making you lose touch with reality

>>18026737
>Why is there so much arguing about the state of the world today?
Not reading the rest, the answer is thats what people have always done, bemoaning the time they are in. Its neither a good nor bad, just something that happens.

>>18027978
But how did you come to such a conclusion? Your volatile incel temperament?

>>18026880
>things I don't like are happening and that means liberalism is failing
Weak rhetoric like this is why conservatives always get shafted

>>18026774
No, retard. Liberalism is the opposite of Abrahamic religions.

>>18026880
Shit arguments, but I agree with your general point.

>>18026737
Any proof to this dispositive claim that "liberalism failed"? As if it is a settled case? Because I'm up to my eyeballs in it, it's everywhere and clearly the prevailing ideological tendency of the West. This guy took one look at Trump and read far too much into it. Why Liberalism is Failing would be a more accurate title, and more interesting because at least the assertion is plausible.

>>18028107
>>18027989
More like
>things that are contradicting liberal concepts are becoming popular within a liberal system therefore it’s falling apart

Because it clearly fucking is you morons

>>18028147
You seem confused. Thankfully liberalism isn't as brittle as some shitty ideological nonsense government

>>18028147
Getting angry about it and shouting that what you think is happening is really happening is typical anti-liberal cope. None of those things are contradicting any fundamental liberal concepts since liberalism is about institutions and not about creating a conflict-free world. If I were seriously interested in debating you I could go through point-by-point and demonstrate how what you're saying is not even supported by the facts, like race riots for example, were objectively bigger and more deadly in the past.

>>18027042
What explains this is simply the de-marxinization of the left and its usurpation by identity politics which puts on cosmetic affectations of radicalism while maintaining the coordinates of the status quo. Liberalism is primarily a leftist phenomenon, though the broadest definition encompasses some classical conservative tendencies, libertarianism, etc. You see the constant repetition of these racial and similar issues because "the master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house." The modern left's obsession with race and anti-racism is a farcical mirroring of it. It wrestles with abstractions and, attempts to police feelings or attitudes rather than concrete materialist factors. It has regressed into an ineffectual political idealism which ensures a kind of perpetual running-in-place treadmill performance, a shadow boxing match that seeks to resolve racism within racism. All of this transpires in a time of unprecedented wealth inequality, an issue which is astonishingly out of the mouths of nearly every mainstream political agenda, conveniently substituted for the perverse nightly entertainment and momentary outrages of cops shooting black men without any consciousness of the class structure on which state violence is founded. Instead, it's just the vague metaphysical evil of racism--an honest to goodness spook--that explains it. But you cannot control how people feel about things. What you can control is the material conditions which continually reiterate certain socially destructive scenarios that no one wants to see or experience.

>>18028171
Yeah I guess it’s no big deal that society is deteriorating and Anglo countries are mobilizing into massive social justice movements that far surpass the scale of any other movement in American history, from the local level to corporate support. 20 million people protested for BLM, millennials openly hate America, and most of our social elements are becoming radically inverted and progressive. There is clearly something in liberalism that’s causing this, very baffled as to how anyone could deny that the world isn’t shaky right now

>>18028215
You need to lay off the CNN

>>18028215
Why wouldn't you hate America?

Any ideology that concentrates too much power inevitably behaves illiberally. Because power is inherently illiberal, because power is the capacity to influence others. Someone who is influenced is not acting out their own pursuit of liberty and the fullest expression of their freedom. Being the object of power necessarily conflicts with it. The argument is typically framed in terms of the "other side" rising up and overtaking liberalism, but the more cogent fact is that liberalism is rotting from within. The witch hunts of cancel culture testify to the principle. So does the mob justice that the political establishment tacitly supports even though "peaceful protests" always come before the riots that happen later. Similar the "woke imperialism" and "woke capital" tendencies, as if drones piloted by strong black women makes any difference to the devastated Syrian towns and villages below them. Or that capitalism's class war is made any less ugly by replacing every 10th rich old white guy with a minority. Liberalism has grown drunk off its own taste for power, and behind it is all the wealthy celebrities who post "BLM" from the comfort of their secure well-policed, propertied enclaves, or Barack Obama and his platitudes about the American Dream while he accepts half a million dollar speaking engagements with Goldman Sachs. The Empress has no clothes. And the rise of right wing reactionaries is directly related to the liberal class's failure to correct material conditions.

>>18026880
>less people below the poverty line than ever
In all fairness, the poverty line is so fucking low you have to work a 10-hour work week at minimum wage to make that little.

>>18028295
Why wouldn't you hate every country by that logic

>>18028324
>every country is America
???

>>18028332
What do you have against America that countless other countries haven't, or don't also engage in

>>18028349
Shitty cosmopolitan rootless culture, any one person's life is immersed in hyperreality and psyops, disgusting architecture, pathetic and cucked racial taboos, a culture that celebrates victimhood and pearl clutching, immensely expensive higher education monopolized by jews, every institution overrun with the most disgusting shitlib faggots imaginable, transexualism, hollywood, wall street, negroid violence, gay purple buttplug parades with public sodomy, daily workplace humiliation rituals, bad public transport, bloated and increasingly ineffective healthcare system, idk man place got problems lmao

>>18028215
It depends on how you look at it. Obviously conflicts have to be kept under control somehow and so far liberalism has done a better job than other alternatives, to the point where even when people want to stick it to the libs they for the most part have to do it using liberal institutions. The best example of this is Brexit. Easily the biggest blow to liberalism in recent memory and you didn't even mention it. Yet when I think of the ways in which Brexit has played out, it's rather ironic that it has been with so much adherence to the existing laws and liberal principles. A democratic referendum followed by an invocation of the article for withdrawal from the union followed by a lengthy parliamentary process where representatives of the interested parties hammered out the details of the terms of the withdrawal. It's all very liberal.

>>18028390
also you can't find a fucking WOMAN that doesn't already have children from another man

>>18028402
Yes, totally not an issue in one child policy china

>>18028411
that got lifted, also what's that have to do with anything?

>>18028429
lol

>>18028390
Sorry you listed too many things that too many other countries also have. The United States is shit and so is your shit country

>>18028438
>>18028411
>BUT WHAT ABOUT CHINA!?!??!?!

>>18028441
I'm American you fucking retard
>Sorry you listed too many things that too many other countries also have
No shit why do you think they have them?
Do you think those problems existing in other countries excuses ours? Kys faggot

>>18028399
That’s the point though. This is all very liberal. But people are pretending as if Liberalism is being attacked by external forces, when that isn’t the case at all. As the book argues, Liberalism is hegemonic and absorbing of everything in the world, and because of how adamant it is on dissolving every aspect of life, it creates its own problems. The more that liberalism succeeds the more that it fails. Brexit was a liberal project that was undone through liberal means. It’s a total deadlock although people blame racism or fascism for it.

>>18028454
Is this book basically a restatement of Carl Schmitt? haven't read either just had it explained to me

>>18028445
I didn't bring up China first dood

>>18028454
Well then I don't see this as an argument for the failure of liberalism but an argument for the total success of liberalism. The EU is still there and other anti-EU movements got a cold dose of reality. If the British population just decided to stop respecting the laws of the EU out of the blue that would have been a lot more destabilizing to the EU and liberalism as a whole because it would mean that the laws, hierarchies, and procedures of the project were no longer actual. As it stands there were proven to be very much actual.

>>18028120
Totally wrong

>>18028454
>>18028480
The fact that it creates its own problems is a truism. I think problems in life are inevitable and whatever you do will create its own problems in so far as if you choose to do something else you would deal with problems appearing in a different form. The test is whether we can survive the problems we create or not.

>>18028453
Ok so you want to live in a world of delusion where everything is America's fault just because lol. Have your fantasy about how your life would be good without the United States. Because everyone knows the world was paradise and people were angels pre-18th century

>>18028453
Oh yeah and no I'm not saying their problems excuse ours, but you're literally making excuses for theirs while pissing your pants about the United States. Ironic. My original question was, "Why don't you hate those countries too" so other countries having similar problems is obviously relevant

>>18028524
Worldwide liberalism is America's fault because it won the second world war, are you okay in the head? This country once had promise and flushed it down the drain, I don't even see what's left that you're clinging to so hard.

>>18026774
>>18028120
both kind of correct. liberalism is a secularized heretical Christianity

but I don't see how worshipping trees is going solve the liberalism anything

>>18028541
Who said other countries aren't deserving of hate? America is just particularly the kingpin of worldwide liberalism and also the one i have to experience everyday.

>>18028480
But for how much longer? Every aspect of classical liberalism is increasingly in decay. Individuality is falling apart as most people are finding it difficult to define themselves and mobilize as collectives with abstract identities like race or pronouns. Religion is rapidly being abandoned and New Age spiritual bullshit is replacing it with young people. The foundational principles of liberal societies are condemned as racist and the very founders are denigrated through their statues and namesakes being removed. And most importantly all reason and rationality is being thrown out the window as a perpetual battle of oppression and privilege is all that people care for.

Liberalism is just an exhausted system. It’s guilty and repentant for it’s own existence, and even the people it oversees are desperate to “abolish” while creating nothing new. You can’t tell me that Locke or Thomas Jefferson would be happy with the way America has turned out today, and you have to be naive to believe that a society can function without, well, a cohesive society. There’s no bright future ahead

>>18028545
There was never anything left to cling to anywhere, ever

>>18028575
megacope

>>18026774
sneed, nigger

>>18028565
[citation sneeded]

>>18027202
> What do we replace it with?

Conservatism, of course. I'm saying this because it's my preference and I'm so sick and tired of LGBT fags and Feminists inserting themselves into everything, even things like video games.

>>18028877
Conservatism is the modern context is just classical liberal garbage that got us where we are in the first place. It's toothless, pathetic, and extremely gay.

>>18027155
Those goddamn Y's. Why don't the Z's see we're on their side?!

>>18028877
Reddit

>>18027155
>>18028917
Hahaha yeah bros like groups or factions don't even exist, we're all just, like, humans, right? Everyone is basically the same lol why would anybody identify as anything but an individual hahaha so dumb.

>>18028934
Not the point there. Factions have always existed, but a current issue is the marketing of ideologies for profit in which you gain validation for existing and demonizing any other faction, but most importantly you do so while being very profitable for people who couldn't give less of a shit about you and your beliefs.

>>18028390
You also forgot our absolute godawful infrastructure. Everything is so far away that if forces you to have a car. Towns are several magnitudes larger than they should be, corporations can play the government for easy cash cows while doing fuck all to improve roads, electrical and cable lines, and public transportation is relegated to high-pop dependency wagons that cover a pathetically small amount of a town. Also suburbia.

>>18027802
The truth is self evident, it takes years of indoctrination to select against pattern recognition, something repitles and insects are capable of.

>>18028295
Its a simple question, the entire world has modeled itself after America's 20th century success in some form or another.

>>18027989
The established order has way more in common with oligarchs from China than they have with Americans and the W.A.P. culture americans have unleashed on the world.

>>18028877
Cause conservative Christians never forcefully insert themselves or their moral standards in anything. The fact that if it had not been for conservatism oppressing LGBT people, women, and non-white people that these groups are so loud and pushy.

>>18028215
>There is clearly something in liberalism that’s causing this, very baffled as to how anyone could deny that the world isn’t shaky right now
people just care about what happens in their life outside of work, this kills communism [because communism is all about work and seizing production tools], this upsets socialism [since socialism is a just temp cache between freedom and communism which is now dead], and the socialists try to gain back market shares by galvanizing this.

>>18028551
Because worshipping trees is worshipping nature.
Worshipping nature means understanding the cycle of life and that we live in a dog eat dog world.
That leads to understanding the value of blood.

>>18027989
Man if your reading comprehension is bad enough that you got "communism is a serious threat to the established order" from my post then you need to leave this board forever. You managed to ignore 90% of what I've said and land yourself 180 degrees in the opposite direction of my point, smugly too.

>>18028089
>womanposting
I explained my conclusion here >>18027802 and >>18027155 already. Why do you keep asking extremely vague questions while dodging simple specific ones? It's like you're asking for the sources to my claim that the sun rose again today, and when I ask how you didn't notice the sunrise you call me an incel, what is wrong with you?

>>18030796
Sounds like you should lay off the polshit. There's a whole world outside Fox News anon :)

The answer is have sex. Always has been

>>18030931
>shit I'm retarded
>pretend to be trolling with a :)
>haha he'll never see through my shield of aloofness

ywnbaw

>>18031030
>ur just a tranny!