/lit/ - Literature

>>18089675
No. The enlightenment is the direct intellectual source of today's ills. Immanentism is the root error. Post-modernism is the most reasonable conclusion of enlightenment thinking.

>>18089675
I think now if you read the ‘postmodernists’ you will end up having the same experience
t. Former poltard

Read Capital, you're gonna like it.

>>18089675
>Nietzsche
> objective Truth
???

>Nietzsche
>trying to find Objective Truth
?????

>>18089675
sorry anon but i didn't read any of that on account of it being put next to a picture of a whore

>>18089701
>Post-modernism is the most reasonable conclusion of enlightenment thinking.
In a sense i actually dont think you're wrong
As the death of all theistic morality was always going to justify the creation of new moralities and a vacume left by our nature to seek one.
But there is a sort of sympathy and even kinship i have to those who came before on the left as they seem far more intellectually honest, if not merely by circumstance or upbringing then their modern counter parts
>>18089723
I have
Marx to me is a pretty basic example of a guy who started in the wrong place and logically extrapolated extremely intelligently from that flawed premise
In that sense i some what consider him the thomas aquinas of the left
Not unintelligent mind you,
Just wrong about the objective reality of the situation
>>18089733
Seeking it anon
Not necessairily having found
>>18089715
I'll probably read them again but post modern work is probably the thing i've read the most of
Its largely the ilk that drove me to be a National Socialist after my edgy atheist liberterian phase.

>>18089675
Sure they were just a reaction against a bad state of things, not like they came in a vacuum. Shame their retarded ideas were spread though.

>>18089735
Yes anon,
If you read beyond good and evil you should know what i'm talking about.
>>18089757
How tf do YOU know Brenda??

>>18089774
If you've read the first chapter of BG&E you will know the "will to truth" is a sham. All there is is individual will to power, no "truth".

>>18089763
What ‘postmodern work’ are you talking about though? If anything postmodernism provides many opportunities for critique of the contemporary left and its institutionalised, commercialised and coercive moralism.

Consider also that Marx was a significant influence, both directly and indirectly, upon fascism and fascist theory. Mussolini considered himself a Marxist to the end.

>>18089822
I think you misread him anon
He's not an objectivist but he's not arguing truth doesnt exist either
He's just arguing it doesnt matter necessairily for society (in some instances)

no

>>18089830
>What ‘postmodern work’ are you talking about though?
Marcuse
Horkheimer
György Lukács
Take your pic.
> If anything postmodernism provides many opportunities for critique of the contemporary left and its institutionalised, commercialised and coercive moralism.
Read Marcuse.
>Consider also that Marx was a significant influence, both directly and indirectly, upon fascism and fascist theory.
Not sure exactly what politics you think have anon
But that isn't it.

>>18089675
I consider myself to be more of a centrist nowadays. When I was a retarded edgy 16 year old my brain was full on /pol/ but I can happily say I got over that phase after a few years. For me the most influential critique of the Enlightenment was "Dialectic of Enlightenment" by Horkeimer and Adorno and I would recommend it.

>>18089856
> "Dialectic of Enlightenment" by Horkeimer and Adorno
Read it
Humbly disagree.

>>18089855
When I think postmodernism I think Barthes, Derrida, Foucault, Lyotard, Baudrillard. Obviously Marcuse etc. is somewhat adjacent but still different. More obvious precursors are Nietzsche and Wittgenstein. Baudrillard is politically ambiguous and has even been judged right-wing.
>Not sure exactly what politics you think have anon But that isn't it.
What?

>>18089856
wash ur penis!

>>18089898
>When I think postmodernism I think Barthes, Derrida, Foucault, Lyotard, Baudrillard.
Will give them more of a look
>What?
Mussonilini's specific articulation of right-wing politics doesn't really interest me that much
Mosley is better at being mussolini in basically every way and even his ideology isn't particularly worthwhile in my estimation.

>I find myself as NatSoc in the modrn era
fucking lol

>>18089925
Mussolini and Mosley aren’t the only or even the most important theoreticians and exponents of fascism. But both came originally from the Left. I’m just pointing out the importance of radical leftist thought in the origins of fasxism

>>18089925
>Mosley is better at being mussolini in basically every way
HE LOST. HE NEVER HAD ANY POWER AND HE DIED IRRELEVANT.
This is the REAL world you fucking retards, its not just about words

>>18089675
idk but i'm tryin'a smoke pipe tobacco

>>18089952
Better case to make would with Strasser and Sorel my dude (at least from my perspective)
>>18089960
>HE LOST. HE NEVER HAD ANY POWER AND HE DIED IRRELEVANT.
As did Karl Marx
Doesn't mean either of them weren't or wrong on that basis
>This is the REAL world you fucking retards, its not just about words
In the real world words cause moved the world anon
>>18089933
lol.
Take it as you will anon
Better to be honest and laughed at then accept a lie to be repsected.

>>18089675
I appreciate your attempt to look outside your wheelhouse and your respect for other views but I have a burning need to tell you: fuck off nazi scum

>>18089763
They are the most intellectually dishonest. They are the first to say that truth resides within. They are the first to make morality subjective. They make the conscience into God, and so long as a man follows his conscience, he is a righteous man. This is the destruction of all morality and society. Hence why, ever since, our societies have been collapsing and our morality has been degenerating. In the name of reason, they denied logic. At least those of today have the excuse of having been raised in a culture which does not believe in truth, and so, after all this, it is not entirely unreasonable to give up on ever finding it.

>>18089980
>Better to be honest and laughed at then accept a lie to be repsected.
you’re literally a fucking 12 year old LARPer. Mans can’t even spell right for more than 5 words

>>18089933
I know right
>>18089980
It's not about being laughed at, it's about endangering people you care about. It's not funny it's fucking depressing. National "socialism" doesn't give a fuck about the common people.

>>18090021
>They are the first to say that truth resides within. They are the first to make morality subjective.
No they’re not you retarded faggot. Start with the Greeks. Parmenides already described man as the measure of all things 2.5 thousand years ago, and the ancient sceptics made long descriptions of all the ways morality was subjective.
>In the name of reason, they denied logic.
What are you talking about. Name one person who “denies logic”. The critique of reason by reason has existed since before and during the Enlightenment. You call yourself a NatSoc but so much of National Socialism is about a willed and conscious irrationalism.

>>18090015
>fuck off nazi scum
Lol
well i appreciate you could get a sentence of pleasantries out before that
>>18090021
>They are the first to say that truth resides within. They are the first to make morality subjective. They make the conscience into God, and so long as a man follows his conscience, he is a righteous man. This is the destruction of all morality and society.
Yes anon but they had the good grace to admit it was all subjective
Or in the case of Kant or believing sincerely it was objective
In either instance its leaps and bounds better then the shit we deal with today imo
>>18090030
>Mans can’t even spell right for more than 5 words
Apologies for that
Had to teach myself to read and write
>>18090033
>It's not about being laughed at, it's about endangering people you care about. It's not funny it's fucking depressing. National "socialism" doesn't give a fuck about the common people.
If you want to talk about this seriously anon i'm down
But if this is just some fucking emotional belief for you i have no interest in spend an hour shitting on your god in some vain atttempt to get you to abadone him or more likely attempt to out you as fanatic irrational zealot you will inevitably out yourself to be if you are such.
If i wanted to piss off leftists I would have gone to /pol/ or lefty /pol/ and dropped the
>"Debate"
Bate and watched the flies come running
I dont care what morality you have
I dont care what feelings you have
I'd had a long enough week of calling leftists retarded
Unless you can speak about any of this intelligently i'm already bored of the subject matter.

>>18089885
You're committing a disservice to yourself.
>>18089916
Done

>>18089763
why the picture of Jesus? also lol at considering natsoc LESS edgy than libertarianism

>>18090021
You mention God, and replying to a post with Jesus on the cross, I'm going to guess you think Christian morality is the solution. With that in mind:
Trying to appeal to God's morality is a never-ending winnowing of actions into an unachievable ultimate purity. You cannot be God or Jesus or even a prophet. You must be the best version of yourself.
Look at the Amish, taking spiritual purity and becoming absolutely stupid over it. Look at Catholic Europe, the true believers are so far down the rabbit hole of prescriptive structured morality that most people cannot connect with them and thus are left by the wayside and have worse morals than elsewhere. Look at the Jews, as much as you like to pretend their faith is so different it's founded on the same basic tenets, but the orthodox ones have become so stratified they would commit horrible acts just to have things and places they deem sacred, which of course Christians and Muslims have been guilty of in the past.
As for truth, it must reside within, because to rely on someone else's truth is to be a slave.

>>18090074
this is awful reddit bait lmao. annoying fucking spacing

>>18090074
I'm not interested in a debate or feelings, national socialism has a short but very decisive track record of being fucking awful for 95% of the people involved. If you mean "socialism with nationalistic characteristics" that's less stupid but you're inviting people to not take you seriously by calling yourself natsoc, and more importantly nationalism is both logically questionable and morally wrong. We must devote ourselves to our fellow man, individually and as a whole, not put up artificial walls of nationality and say "only this country matters", that's bad for everyone.
If you are to be moral you must give aid to everyone. No holding back.

>>18089675
>realizes that modern ideologies are just a method for the governing class to divide people and garner support through idolatry
>still smashes that mfing like and subscribe button
you were almost there

>>18089675
>Nietzsche was trying to find objective truth
wut

>>18089715
>I think now if you read the ‘postmodernists’ you will end up having the same experience
This. People like Baudrillard, Foucault, and Nietzsche have better explanations for wokeness and modern cultural problems than conservatives do. I wouldn't necessarily say they're compatible with conservatism or anything but I'm surprised by how right wingers hate them so much more than they hate atheistic enlightenment liberalism.

>>18089822
>>18089733
>>18089735
t. Skipped Gay Science

>>18090087
Fair enough but i thought i should state my feelings as openly as possible
Is there any reason you'd like to outline as why you se the work as particularly enlightening
>>18090089
>also lol at considering natsoc LESS edgy than libertarianism
Liberterianism is litterally the epitomy of psued edgy boi ideology.
Its argues every man is first and foremost an ego in perhaps the most explicit means of ANY enlightenment era ideology and litterlaly is down to sign off on some guy concentually buying up all the watter on earth and then enslaving the population to his whim
National Socialism at in its base policy advocation is litterally just an ethnically nationalistic nordic model economy that is interested in scientific advancement
The fact that the 20th century labeled it "extremist" says alot more about the long lasting effects of war time propaganda in the age of mass telivised media then it does about the actual ideology itself
>>18090120
>national socialism has a short but very decisive track record of being fucking awful for 95% of the people involved.
...
Anon what exactly did you think the demographics of Germany looked like in 33...
Or are you just talking about the results of the war that was largely caused by the other regiems of europe??
>If you mean "socialism with nationalistic characteristics" that's less stupid but you're inviting people to not take you seriously by calling yourself natsoc
I am speaking of an ethnic ideology anon,
not denying this
>more importantly nationalism is both logically questionable and morally wrong.
Please do tell what objective charatistics by which you have attained a proof for objective morality for one of the first times in western philosophy since the late 1800s??
>We must devote ourselves to our fellow man, individually and as a whole
Why?
> and as a whole, not put up artificial walls of nationality and say "only this country matters", that's bad for everyone.
How so?
>If you are to be moral you must give aid to everyone. No holding back.
Again,
Why?
>>18090135
lol
Just because everything in the overton is a "spook" doesn't mean their isn't an inherent biological nature to man anon
Or to the world he lives in.

>>18089675
>Nietzsche
was n ot looking for objective truth, he'd concluded there was nothing but arguments about it so everything resolved into power. His wicked doctrines appealed to those robber barons of his time who sought license to be douches. 'Peace of mind in crime' indeed.

He was Ayn Rand for his time accept the Holocaust proved the Will to Power to be nonsense as much as the GFC proved Greenspan wrong, dead wrong about ideas he picked up at Ayn Rand's feet as her acolyte.

>I find myself as NatSoc in the modrn era far more sympathetic to them i ever thought i would be given our shared persuit of our view of the truth and the progress of humanity against enemies born in brainless cesspits of orgasmic idol worship

You're looking backwards as much as any regressive in a dying culture ever has, always looking backwards. I'm 51, i remember what it was like when people only looked forwards. It had its downsides but western society was still vital and welcomed novelty. Nobody from the 80s (which you gay internet nazis seem to love the aesthetics of) would have believed young people of today would be talking like the irrelevant morons of that time. Your post sounds like a cranky loser in his late 50s, I remember them too, moaning about old time values and using modern technology to do it.

Basically, freedom terrifies you. Your type get dragged along as baggage, noisily kicking the back of the seat as we all drive towards modernity.

>>18089763
>objective reality of the situation
You keep mentioning that, but it's traumatized either/or black-and-white thinking. Stop thinking like a whipped shopper and being so self important.

>>18090163
>National Socialism at in its base policy advocation is litterally just an ethnically nationalistic nordic model economy that is interested in scientific advancement
turbo pseud detected

>>18090183
Based retarded old faggot complaining about other people sounding like old faggots while being the most old faggot sounding of them all

>>18090163
Mainly what they say on the culture industry specifically. I think the section on the culture industry is probably the most important take away from that book. Keep in mind I say this as someone who is not really left wing at all. I think you will agree with what they say. If you don't feel like reading the book then this is a very good two part introduction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMiF9Bv-72s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_qm4DtPQMM

>>18089675
kek you're using the word postmodern without even knowing what it means nigga stop watching jordan peterson lmfao

>>18090163
>Anon what exactly did you think the demographics of Germany looked like in 33...
>I am speaking of an ethnic ideology anon,
>not denying this
Fuck off stormfag, you're justifying genocide over what, cool outfits and not wanting to feel alone? News flash buttfucker, everyone is alone, being with "your race" doesn't change a thing. Accept all humanity as your race or get the fuck off this planet.

>>18090214
lol and you think you're a reader.

I was saying he sounded like the irrelevant old farts of the 80s, they're pretty much all dead now, or they'd be around for people to dismiss.

>>18090240
high quality post

>>18090245
>lol and you think you're a reader.
Love how old cunts (when in old cunt mode) say this kind of non sequitur shit

>>18090240
>cool outfits and not wanting to feel alone
This. He doesn't even see he's just looking for a gang to join. Gotta admit, though, the outfits were cool.

>>18090251
Well, you completely, and i mean completely misunderstood what I wrote, but attack me instead of anything I said, I'm sure you'll sleep better after a bit of mindless internet sperging.

My own origin was as a fan of science, but then in my teen years deeply religious and somewhat conservative, then going into my twenties I basically had the opposite experience via the same method-- I was introduced to leftist thought and realized it was correct, and that most elements of social conservatism are just arbitrary authoritarian dick-waving. I believe in conservatism when it comes to sexual matters and drugs and generally following the law, but in all other matters I'm anti-conservative and I would hasten to clarify I don't identify as liberal, because that means almost nothing now and what it does mean is not generally what I would agree with.

>>18090261
Says the man with the bad misreadings of Nietzsche

>>18090283
>fucking golf clap

>>18090240
I am not him I am actually this anon up here >>18090222
>>18089856
and certainly not a stormfag but I am sorry I can't accept everyone. I hate people on average. I am disgusted by people. What I see simply sickens me. There are literally people who do not have an internal monologue. I refuse to accept everyone as they are. People are not equal. Some people such as many Americans and Chinese simply do not have souls and express cruelty to living creatures (webm related) or spiral into a vicious cycle of narcissistic materialism. The biggest myth is that all people are equal. Fuck off with that shit.
Most people in Western industrialized societies do not even know what it means to be human.

>>18090276
Yikes

>>18090276
Just admit that you have a small dick

>>18090316
>I hate people on average
Well then this has to color our evaluation of everything you ever say, because you're a member of a species that is obligatorily social.
>Most people in Western industrialized societies do not even know what it means to be human.
The irony, I guess it's good for the blood.

>>18090378
>Color
Oh you're American, fuck off then. Your kind have raped the Earth and the reason why the world is in turmoil today is because of you.

>>18090381
I'm not American and in my opinion the world is in less turmoil than it ever has been. I have stats to back this opinion up and neutralize the media vuvuzela that brings you all the mayhem but ignores all the love and co-operation that is so boring and lame.

News activates your emotions so you respond to the next ad you see. Your pic related.

>>18090381
>the reason why the world is in turmoil today is because of you.
I'm not that anon so I don't really care but laughed really hard at that

>>18090404
You're a delusional retard I don't care about your bullshit statistics from reddit, OK? Human suffering is at an all time high and will only get worse. You ignore the realities of modern day authoritarian regimes, mitigation of civil liberties in places like the USA and the fact that we are accelerating towards a horrible dystopian landscape cloaked in McDonald's happy meals and clothing catalogues. “The perfect dictatorship would have the appearance of a democracy, but would basically be a prison without walls in which the prisoners would not even dream of escaping. It would essentially be a system of slavery where, through consumption and entertainment, the slaves would love their servitude."—Aldous Huxley. I truly despise people like you. "Omg look at all the good things in the world what a great time to live!" Fuck off. Evil always prevails and your daily dose of animal cuddling videos isn't going to convince me that the world is a balanced place.

>>18090428
>I don't care about your bullshit statistics from reddit, OK? Human suffering is at an all time high and will only get worse
https://www.gapminder.org/tools/#$chart-type=bubbles

This site, and the small book they released, changed my outlook. Human suffering is measurable and is at an all-time low. Maybe you could get informed and change your views.

>>18090479
"Maybe you could get informed and change your views" he said smugly as his wife's boyfriend brought home McDonald's for dinner.

"You want our leftover chicken nuggets or left over big mac, honey? You can only choose one!"
"N-n-nuggets" he stammered. "Did you bring the sweet and sour dipping sauce?"

If there is a hell may you burn there for eternity.

>>18089675
This pic reminds me of the woman I loved and lost.
A reminder to this board:
Some split-second actions have permanent and devastating consequences
Books to harden you against these kinds mistakes:
>Conquest of Gaul by Julius Caesar
>On War by Clausewitz
>literally making even one of these mistakes in your life
Off topic, I know, but more important than whatever shits being discussed here

>>18090549
well tell us the tale i'm in the mood live vicariously through random internet dude's stories

>>18090560
I second this lol

>>18090560
It'll take me a moment. Reading for work right now. This threads going nowhere fast so I'll have time later tonight. It's not an incredibly interesting story, but I like to think the moral is important

>>18090525
Wow, you sound angry and unutterably neutral.

>Posts a pic showing everyone in the world agreeing that food is a right
>uses the cuck meme like he's 12
Just look at that site, configure it for any of the 100 indices for development. Or would you rather hold on to your shitty world view because it excuses your shitty attitude? Do you derive your sense of self from being angry? Just a little information and direction could change your life.

>>18090549
>lost a gf
>books about war
you might live a century without an original thought

>>18090662
You are a self righteous, naive, smug prick and I have no interest in deluding myself into thinking that the world is a good place. I am not an angry person I am an unequivocally exhausted person because of people like you. You make my skin crawl.

>>18090560
Alright I got everything I'm gonna get done with that garbage. Finishing up my second PBR so I'm not quite in "the zone" but this 4chan, ergo not a publication I'm particularly worried about.
I present to you, written in real time: The Chronology of a Shepherd Raised in Sheep's Clothing.
>Be 10 or 11
>at friend's house
>Friend's mom had scheduled a get-together with one of her friends, brought me and friend along to play with her kids, who were a similar age
>Meet girl, her name will be T
>Very typical boy/girl interaction for that age. Awkward, kind of avoid each other.
>2 years pass
>T has moved into the same school district as me. Remember her from before but now I am absolutely infatuated.
>Do nothing. I'd never been taught how to talk to girls, and had never been socially successful in general. So I was always too afraid to say anything
>2 years pass this way
>We've talked off and on and realized we both really like reading. We're obviously compatible personalities but I'm still too scared to do jack shit.
>Still haven't had "the talk" in any form with my dad, have had no advice on how to speak to women
>Also being bullied regularly by the people seen as "popular" in our school (I use quotes because the school was very small, so the popular group was not much bigger than the unpopular)
>Parent's advice is to "tell them to stop, and never, ever hit them."
>This strategy proves ineffective, but I trust my parents and continue attempting to use it.
>Despite social struggles, I'm doing very well with my grades
>Apply to a private high school nearby (in 8th grade right now)
>Say it's because they offer cool classes
>It's actually to get away from the bullying
>School goes on after I submit my application, it becomes clear that T and I are good friends and value each other's companionship
>Still don't do anything because I don't know how and the last thing I want is for a friend to think I'm creepy since I really don't have many
(to be cont.)
>>18090662
>Original thoughts
>implying original thoughts are possible
kek pic and filename related

>>18090381
"this has to color our evaluation" doesn't have anything to do with skin color, moron, it means "this has to affect/fill out/inform our evaluation"

>>18090818
Someone's blasting fall out boy out of their car outside. We always bonded over Fall Out Boy.
>At the last dance of 8th grade
>Emo friend officially landed a girlfriend in one of the girls at school
>"Dude just make your move with T"
>"I don't know what you're talking about"
>"Stop pretending you don't and just do it."
I dont do it.
>Get accepted to the private high school.
>Don't have to move, but I see my friends from my old school significantly less
>still make time to see them because I want to be around T
>Mostly only able to make excuses to see her under the guise of movie nights with all the friends
>We laughed at shitty horror movies while other people looked for excuses to be scared
>We talked for hours about thought-provoking movies after everyone else had moved on to talking about pointless shit.
>We continued our conversation about Donnie Darko for over a month (I know it's not THAT thought-provoking, but this was high school)
>But high school ends
>T goes to an in-state school, I go to one the next state over.
>Next to no conversations. Meet up with the old crew a couple times during the summers
>Finally start having text conversations with her again.
>Can't remember who engaged it. I think it was me saying the party at her parent's house was awesome.
>We don't stop texting each other (We're already at the very beginning of my senior year in college)
>Even though we haven't really talked to each other for almost three years we immediately click again, and in a way I have never felt with anyone else ever.
>Come up with a plan to have her visit me (the university I was going to had a far prettier campus)
>She does, but with a catch
She brought her friend
To be cont.

>>18090819
Color is the American English spelling. Shut the fuck up you clueless dolt.

>>18089733
>>18089735
You never read him.

I have respect for everyone, including enlighteners and leftists, I consider myself a marxist despite being right wing. I don't think you have to disrespect anybody, also lots of great thinkers are simply one sided and can't see the full implications or abuses of their ideas. I respect some libertarians but I think they are naive about oligopolies turning into oligarchies, I respect marxists and think their "materialism" is great as a social theory but they are blind to things that transcend the social, I respect Hegel but think Marx's critiques of him were perfectly valid.

Being one-sided is for midwits who just want to be on a "team."

>Daily reminder Burke was a whig

>>18090015
Seethe more tankie

>>18090878
To clarify. We bonded over old Fall Out Boy. Everything up to "Believers Never Die"
> T's friend thinks I'm hot (I am, I had a crazy workout routine in college. Still pretty /fit/ now, but it doesn't matter as much to me)
>T's friend showers me with affection and attention with zero deviation
>In hindsight, T had given up at this point. She brought her friend because she was likely scared that things wouldn't go well and her friend was doing way way more to win me over.
>I interpret T's withdrawal to mean she just brought her friend for her friend's sake
>Feel betrayed and afraid, but still too scared to seal the deal, even with this 100% "please fuck me" situation
>We go out to the bars and I get hammered because fuck this life
>T's friend comes out from the bathroom and grabs me into a makeout session in the bar
>We all go back to the apartment, I have sex with T's friend
And that was the end of it.
>The next day T was just looking to leave as quickly as possible.
>Things were incredibly awkward the entire time, so I rushed them out too
>Tried to approach T a few months later, with no results
Months pass after that
>Get addicted to porn because I have no companionship in my life
>Become a slob at home because I live alone
>Still workout because I always do but now its just the thing I do that isn't work
>Still read because I like to tell myself I'm smart
Everything is empty.
>Start listening to a podcast about roman history since I never really learned about it in school
>Think Julius Caesar did plenty wrong, but was legitimately impressed by his military achievements, and rebellion against a rotten republic
>Podcast mentions he wrote a book
>Read the book and my hair is blown back
>he had his shit so fucking together to the point that he just jumped into things because he knew he was smarter and more organized than everyone else
>realize what an abject slob I am, and do almost nothing to fix it, but the seed is planted.
(to be cont. to bring you to the present date and the morals I've accrued so far from this experience)

>>18089675
Yeah, to be fair to the Enlightenment, it is not that they were bad at thinking, it was that they were complacent about the procedures of leadership. They thought that all they had to do was be rational; well leadership isn't about rationality, it's about getting shit done.

>>18090946
Honestly, well said. No political school of thought or side is perfect and people who define themselves in specific categories just want to feel like they are apart of something bigger.

>>18090946
While I generally agree, I'm also glad that there are people who just want to be on a team. They keep everyone on their toes, keep things exciting and in a way keep things moving.

>>18090958
>Later read "The Metamorphoses" by Ovid
>Holy goddamn shit fucks
>The way information travels and is created in that book is incredible, with the theme that hiding information is a pointless endeavor as it all comes out somehow, and the harder you try to prevent it the more violent the revelation is
>My mind clicks, I've been hiding and lying to myself
>I need to get my shit together
>Start trying and failing to live a better life, dont even think about T
>after 2 years of failure give up until I start to see T in my dreams at least twice per week
My journey to order my life is now 4 years in the making and I'm just now seeing momentum form. But it's forming fast, and seeing results after 4 years of nothing does a lot to push me even harder. But, to my reflections on all this:

There is no room for fear with the ones you love, and there is no hiding your love without creating evil. I really wish someone would have taught me that when I was younger, but some lessons are best learned by experience.
I threw away a storybook lifelong romance through a mixture of fear, ambition, and lizard brain desire for pleasure. I threw it away in an instant when I didn't smack a bitch for being a detestable slut, but I also threw it a way with years of living carelessly, and building up a system of behavior that all but guaranteed I would make the wrong decision when it mattered.
There's no time to live carelessly. Some of you may whine about black pills but you're all just pussies looking for an excuse to live in fear and despair because it's familiar to you.
Familiarity is a lie. Life is always changing, and nothing real will be the same as it was before. It's up to you to shape it into a world worth living in.
I tried to reconnect with T about a year ago and she all but ignored me. To her credit, I still had fear in my heart and I still made it obvious in how I approached her.
My fear has left. I can see the leader personality I naturally am, and how my upbringing conditioned me to be afraid of it (Learned this reading Jung, I highly recommend him).
I don't hate my parents, I think they're fantastic, but they didn't know how to raise the kind of child that I was, and that's not their fault at all. They've always loved me and supported me.
As I stated above, my fear is gone. I plan to approach T one more time, but I need to make sure the words I use are chosen very carefully to most accurately represent reality, as it will likely be through text and that medium is wide open for misinterpretation.
It's going to happen soon though, because there's no sense in a defensive strategy without an offensive endgame.
She'll probably tell me to fuck off, but this time it will be final, and I will state in no uncertain terms that she has forever influenced my life for the better, and I'll always value her as one of he best friends I ever had.
Thank you to >>18090560 and >>18090565
for encouraging me to share, hope you guys got something to take home from this.

>>18091095
That's an incredible story man. I hope you get her. I wish you the best.

>>18091095
well it made me glad i'm not still friends with anyone from my childhood, hometown, or even college. having some long on and off relationship like that sounds really bad emotionally. i feel bad for 't' for brining that friend, what did she think she would accomplish bringing that girl with her? something like that happened to a friend of mine, she obviously was into this dude at this organization she volunteered at, and some new girl joined the group and one nighted standed the guy my friend was into for years. it's just one of the ways women can be cruel to each other i guess.

>>18091095
>There is no room for fear with the ones you love, and there is no hiding your love without creating evil.
There was this girl at the last place I worked. We had hit it off pretty well, but I never asked her out. There were times I fantasized about us being together, but I didn't realize I had feelings for her despite these daydreams. At this point in my life, I was into reading mystical books and tried to deny my passions and be detached. I found another job 5 months ago, and I asked her out the day I gave the boss my two weeks notice. We haven't gone out because I was broke, and I quit my new job after 3 weeks. We still talk, but she hardly ever responds to my texts, which has always been a bad habit of hers. A couple weeks ago, I had a dream where she told me she was seeing someone. I never thought I would be so jealous.

>>18089675
>Anyone else here a "Far-Right'/ Traditionalist
>I find myself as NatSoc in the modrn era

>>18089774
>>18090162
Heres a quote from Nietzsche in the WTP (but these valuative truth-power sentiments are present everywhere in his work: see TSZ Of Self-Overcoming or the entirety of Genealogy of Morals):
>The estimation of value, 'I believe that such and such is so' as the essence of "truth." In estimations of value are expressed conditions of preservation and enhancement.
Or another one:
>Honouring truth is already a consequence of illusion
>Art is worth MORE than truth
>Truth is the kind of error without which a certain kind of living being could not live!

You are both misinterpreting Nietzsche, have never read N, or if you have you did not understand his central ontological concept of Will-to-Power. All fixating, permanetizing, schematizing, "truth" making is a necessary error, because man must evaluate and overpower the chaotic world of becoming in order to create grounds for growth. This valuative view of truth is strictly against objectivity, N is not looking for an Objective "truth" as much as he is searching for the conditions of valuation and enhancement.
>what is necessary is that something must be held to be true --- not that something IS true

>>18089675
>Kant, Paine, NIETZSCHE, say what you like about them,
>at least they were TRYING to find objective Truth.

>>18089763
Check out Hermeneutics as Politics for the definitive take on Post-Modernism as Enlightenment by other means.

>>18089675
I have had this discussion before, we the right are the heirs to the enlightenment, they the left are its counter movement. Abandon the enlightenment and you become a leftist.

>>18089701
>Post-modernism is the most reasonable conclusion of enlightenment thinking.
Why? Can you actually arque it based on source materials?

>>18090021
>They are the first to make morality subjective.
Abrahamic religions did that by basing morality on the whims of a god, instaid of making it something inherent in nature.

>>18089675
>but I really do miss people who use to hold themselves to some sort of internal coherence for their views.
which is what the "Enlightenment" stopped forever.

>>18089763
>Marx to me is a pretty basic example of a guy who started in the wrong place and logically extrapolated extremely intelligently from that flawed premise
Read Marx more. Das Kapital volume 1 is just the introduction. Read German ideology.
The enlightenment movement is nothing else but the ideological movement emerging from the development of Capitalism in the 1700s.
Ideology, ideas, follow the development of productive forces. Not the other way round.
In short, you have a certain stage of development of productive forces, which gives a certain stage of trade and consumption, which gives a certain stage of civil society (classes, family, religious orders), which gives a certain stage of political stage.
The average incel totally revert this. Like the vast majority of people anyway, whether mainstream or supposedly not.
Read this much shorter version:
https://www.marxists.org/francais/marx/works/1846/12/kmfe18461228.htm

(...) gives a certain stage of political State.

>>18092536
Englightement is the enlightement of the development of Capitalism. Capitalism needed rationality at a certain point to develop itself.
The human rights are typically rights that favor commodity. Those are the right of the proprietarian, egoistical man, who does a lot of contracts (business). Equality on the market.

>>18090015
>>>/r/eddit

>>18090183
>His wicked doctrines appealed to those robber barons of his time who sought license to be douches. 'Peace of mind in crime' indeed.
>He was Ayn Rand for his time accept the Holocaust proved the Will to Power to be nonsense as much as the GFC proved Greenspan wrong, dead wrong about ideas he picked up at Ayn Rand's feet as her acolyte.
Really dont feel like any of this actually constitutes a logical refutation of Nietzsche
More of an emotional association brought ontop population consciousness by the use of propaganda
Sort of like the same shit which legitimized slavery and mass rape in yester year or abortion contemporarily
>You're looking backwards as much as any regressive in a dying culture ever has, always looking backwards. I'm 51, i remember what it was like when people only looked forwards.
Not that this borderline adhom is really a logical argument worth engaging
But i dont really se what actual argument there is that the legitimate right is "looking back" given that most of the shit it advocates has been in practice within living memory and loads of it has never been tried before
Its like an addict fondly yet vaguely remembering a period where he was not addicted to herione and from that trying to better his life on that basis
Would you deride that to as "looking back instead of forward"?
Or if not, what objective difference is their between that example and our current one??
> It had its downsides but western society was still vital and welcomed novelty. Nobody from the 80s (which you gay internet nazis seem to love the aesthetics of)
Do we now.
>would have believed young people of today would be talking like the irrelevant morons of that time.
Probably has something to do with the fact that the baby boomer generation was probably one of the most hilariously brainless and unthinking generations in human history, remarkably so in a sense as they art and "philosophy" they produced cannot purely be exmplained as a broader trend as it is a low point both worse then art and philosophy of the greatest generation and of the gen xers and millenials that came after
And to be clear i dont just mean this in a subjective non-quantifyable manner
The worst slam poetry or politics blogs on tumblr along with the shittiest done to death socialst workers pamplets of the 40s are both leaps and bounds more intellectually honest and objectively more thought out then the manufactured consumerfication of what passed for political philosophy in your generation with the premotion and worship of "revolutionaries" aided at every level by the federal government and often enough subsidized if not bought and paid for by them
> Your post sounds like a cranky loser in his late 50s
How in the FUCK does a 50 year old man remember the 1950s in 2021??
1/2

>>18090183
2/2
>Basically, freedom terrifies you.
Anon when your definition of "Freedom" is to utilize whatever sedative you wish to cope with the utter shit of the modern world,
it really is no wonder that revolutionary ideologies on both the right and left are on the rise

>>18090945
Read Deleuze's book on Nietzsche, you clearly fucked up in your reading if you think he adheres to any form of objectivity or correlationist notions of capital T Truth.

bait thread

>>18089855
>Marcuse
>Horkheimer
>György Lukács
None of these are "postmodernists" whatever that word means. They are all marxists

>>18092984
Actually read Nietzche and not some bastardized reading of him.

>>18094759
Provide quotations and arguments to actually support your assertion that N is searching for objective truth (whatever that even means).

>>18092984
>>18094818
Nietzsche's transvaluation of values stems from the Enlightenment pursuit of truth

>>18092470
You should read Catholic moral theology. God is the creator of nature and one of the principal ways for understanding the mind of God is to observe what occurs in nature. This is even in St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans. Natural Law reveals an absolute objective morality, which Divine Law illuminates and clarifies for men. Homosexuality is abominable because it is unnatural, and most cultures recognize this until they reach a point of moral decadence. Divine Law teaches us, however, that the beginning of tHis moral evil is actually in simple lust, which is the sexual desire of any person for any reason outside of it's natural use in marriage. The latter refines our understanding of nature.

>>18094857
Are you fucking retarded, or is this bait? Do you even understand what transvaluation is? Valuative thinking develops out of radicalized subjectivity and Nietzsche never once implies that Transvaluation is a pursuit of Truth, only of creating new conditions, values and truths (something antithetical to Enlightenment doctrines of Truth, inherited from the old Ontological correlationist essence of truth). Read Nietzsche more, and read Heidegger if you want to actually understand Ns theory of truth.

>>18092466
Whether he meant to or not, Descartes mind-body dualism presented in his Meditations laid a foundation for immanent philosophy by making the mind (absent of physical senses) the supreme arbiter of truth. While the problem with this is not immediately apparent, this approach ultimately internalizes truth rather than recognizing it as external to the self. For example, even Kant's critique of pure reason, which argues for a transcendental truth places each man's own conscience as the ultimate judge of such a truth, meaning that in practice, there is no way to agree upon any transcendental. So, whether you accept Spinoza or Kant, ultimately truth and reality are determined by the individual, and the senses themselves become viewed as increasingly untrustworthy. As philosophers continue to argue over these seemingly different polarities, always in pursuit of some supreme truth, they mutually reinforce the subjective experience. Eventually, you get to Hegel and Nietzche, and again, though they argue for wildly different positions, it doesn't matter which way you turn--external truth is either denied or determined to be wholly unknowable, but in a more radical way than the skeptics ever considered. From the beginning, it was the rejection of an external, knowable, objective truth; where the moderns rejected truth in the name of truth, the postmodernists have the honesty to acknowledge both that they are not searching for a universal truth and that the modernist attempts were not real attempts but cultural reactions to power. Their failure is that, even after recognizing the wrongness of modernism, they are incapable of recognizing that Aquinas and Aristotle are right. This is understandable, because once one accepts Aquinas and Aristotle, one very quickly realizes that there is very little glory left to claim.

>>18089701
Just go live on your dirt farm and lick boot then.

>>18095716
I fucking wish m8, that kind of opportunity is out of reach for most people here

>>18095735
You need to be more creative. Go find a farmer and beg them to let you lease some land for a living situation in return for rent and some random chores. Tell your employer you're working from home

>>18089675
liberalism is conservatism to most liberal thinkers

absolute monarchs and the state represent modernity