/lit/ - Literature

And the Bible says that all languages come from Biblical Hebrew, what's your point?

Op you will be shocked to learn this, but all religions contain contradictions.
Except for Mormonism. It's logically perfect.

Hinduism is not a monolith and India was ruled by other orthodoxies for centuries. There is no single central authority over all the religion going on in the subcontinent. Other animals were sacrificed as well in the past, Hindus are aware of this. It's not a problem because the religion (s) do not assume a single authorative linear interpretation of practice or theology.

>>18204089
Hinduism is a collection of often completely different traditions. There are some traditions that allow meat eating and some that don’t. My tradition, Sri Vidya, doesn’t forbid eating meat. A lot of other tantric traditions even involve animal sacrifice and the ritual consumption of meat.

>>18204089
>incoherent
They usually explain that these are early teachings when it was not a sin to kill and eat a cow. Now Kali Yuga and you don't touch the cow! Like, each Yuga has its own rules.
The same is the case if you are some kind of sudra, sin hunts for you, and if a kshatriya, then it is normal.
There are no general rules.

>>18204149
How does one become a Hindu? Would it even be possible as a British man brought up in an atheistic family and society? I remember my friend when I was a child, second-generation Indian, his mother would take us to the temple when I stayed round there house, then she would take us to McDonald's or something

>>18204224
It depends on the tradition. My tradition requires diksha (initiation) from a guru. There are others that require something similar, others that require something similar, and others that don’t require anything. And it’s possible for anyone to become a Hindu. I’m a white American myself.

>>18204242
*There are others that require something similar, others that require something different, and others that require nothing.

>>18204089
>This is an incoherent religion.

No fucking shit. In the west we call everything vaguely religious that comes from India (hint hint: hindia) Hinduism. The faults don't lie with 'Hinduism' as there is no such thing. The fault lies with westerners defining something complex as something that's codified and easily understood complete with theology and ideology.

>>18204242
did you get initiated in the US or did you travel to India?

>>18204282
I travelled to Gotivada in India because there were no gurus that belonged to Sri Vidya in the US that I knew of at the time. But there’s a temple in upstate New York that I know of now that was founded by other disciples of my guru. There are other traditions that are much easier to join in the Western world without having to travel to India though. Gaudiya Vaishnavism, for example. ISKCON (the Hare Krishnas) belong to that tradition and they have a temple located in pretty much every major city in North America and Western Europe.

>>18204323
I'm interested in being initiated into Hinduism myself and Sri Vidya was one school which I had considered. Do you have an email that I could reach you at with further questions if I wanted to follow in your footsteps?

>>18204392
The temple I was initiated at was the Devipuram. My guru died in 2015, but the temple is still running fortunately. His disciples (primarily his wife, sister, and children among others) are still initiating people and teaching them Sri Vidya there. There’s also the temple in upstate New York founded by some of my guru’s other disciples that I mentioned, which is called Sri Vidya Temple. On top of that, one of my guru’s other disciples works as a traveling guru himself now.
Here’s some links with info and contact information:
https://www.devipuram.com/
https://www.srividya.org/
https://www.srimeru.org/

>>18204457
okay thanks, do you know if the one in New York offers initiation into Sri Vidya?

>>18204521
Yeah, they offer initiation there

>>18204106
The Bible is right. "Experts" that say otherwise are the same kind of pseudoscience frauds that claim the earth is round, evolution is real, and that outer-space exists.

>things have to make sense and not be contradictory
Filtered hard.

>>18204224
Really there's no 'initiation ceremony' like Abrahamic religions, depending of course you just believe. You could get an upanayanam idk if they do it to adults but you probably could find someone

>>18204643
Agreed

>>18204089
>religion is dumb
yes and?

i'm reading the mahabharata and I think it's kind of interesting how the hinduism isn't really considered a religion in the book.
Makes me think that the whole 'ism' comes form western translators. All religious practices are simply referred to as 'dharma' or duty.

>>18204089
because not killing is an idea from the wanderers, not the brahmins. the brahmins stole everything you know about hinduism.

Hindus kill animals just to please their gods. It's the Buddhists and Jains who say killing is bad.

>>18204089
hindu isnt one religion, they don't have to obide by a one "scripture" each sect/ group has their own set of rules and traditions that can be completly different from another, take aghori for example.

>>18204148
>>18206452
>>18206727
This isn't just about animal sacrifices, it's about killing cattle which is universally prohibited by modern Hindus. About the scriptures, Hindus definitionally accept the Vedas, which include the Samhitas, Brahmanas and Upanishads quoted in my original post.

>>18207344
its basically like old testement/new testement if you want to look at it like that old testement is the vedas with all there extremly long rituals and sacrifices, new testement is now they still believe its part of their religion and will follow some of the custums and laws/rules rituals but it has evolved to have a new path as well as the change in the fact that the new agreed doctrine for hinduism is that things like sacrifices are not necceary to free oneself from samsara as well as some where along the lines the notion for eating meat came into the mainstream, don't forget though that these sacrifices and big feasts would of been for the high rankikng memebrs of the casts brahmins and ksatriyas

>>18206452
The Vedas and pre-Buddhist Upanishads like Chandogya already were speaking about and recommending non-violence centuries before Buddha

http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Animal_rights#Upani.E1.B9.A3ads

>The Yajur Veda[45] declares, "O human! Animals are Aghnya - not to be killed."

>The Atharva Veda[46] proclaims, "Protect the animals." “Oh Noble men! We do not commit violence. We do not hurt others. We do not quarrel either. We of course chant Vedas and act according to its dictates.“ [47] “Every man should protect the other in all respects.“ [48]

>>18207438
The Vedas are sacred, not the upanishads.

>>18204643
People who deny evolution are atheists.

>>18206379
No different from the West where most religion is seen as politics and not religion.

>>18204149
>Sri Vidya
not sure if bait

>>18207438
>>18207438
>>The Vedas and pre-Buddhist Upanishads like Chandogya already were speaking about and recommending non-violence centuries before Buddha
All those are late texts, written after buddhism. Buddhism has the oldest scriptures known in india.

>>18207537
That’s false, we know that the Vedas predate Buddhism since Buddha mentions the Vedas as already existing in the Pali Canon, scholars can tell from the type of language used that the early Upanishads predate Buddhism too, most of the teachings of Buddhism like karma, rebirth, avidya, monasticism etc were probably taken from the earlier Upanishads.

>>18207570
the upanishads and late vedas are later than buddhism
The vedas have no karma, rebirth, avidya, monasticism and the upanishads introduced them from the buddhists and jains.
And only buddhism has monasticism. Brahmins are not monastics, nor jains.

and carbon dating says the buddhists texts are the earliest, carbon dating doesn't care about your feelings.

>>18207583
>The vedas have no karma, rebirth, avidya, monasticism
Thats because they where based on a simpler, more primitive, more natural beliefsystem of the original tribes moving into India from the Russian steppe.

>>18207583
Obvioisly monasticism is a product of urban populations, small tribal groups do not start monastaries.

>>18207583
>he upanishads and late vedas are later than buddhism
Very few scholars and experts on Indology and Indo-Aryan languages think this, it’s just part of the myths that Buddhist tell to console themselves
>The vedas have no karma, rebirth, avidya, monasticism and the upanishads introduced them from the buddhists and jains.
The early Upanishads are estimated to predate Buddhism by practically everyone except Buddhists, those concepts are found in the Brihadaranyaka which is around 8th century BC, and then Buddha ripped them off or was influenced by them
>And only buddhism has monasticism. Brahmins are not monastics, nor jains.
That’s not true, the pre-Buddhist Upanishads enjoin monasticism, the fourth ashrama or stage of life in Hinduism is religious mendicant or ascetic. There is a long tradition of Hindu ascetics that continues to this day, they are primarily Brahmins but other castes have participated too. If you had actually read through the Pali Canon you would already know this since in the Pali Canon Buddha mentions Brahmins living as as ascetics already in his time.
>and carbon dating says the buddhists texts are the earliest, carbon dating doesn't care about your feelings.
the earliest text that survives down to the present day is not the same as which text is actually earlier; the Vedas and Upanishads were passed down orally for centuries

>>18207570
Wait so the Op is right that Hindus contradicts over time their deepest believes. How come nobody points this to them?

>>18207583

> The EBT (early Buddhist Texts) frequently bear the stamp of influence from Brahmanical literature in their literary style. The most obvious is the poetry, where we find that the metres are developed from Vedic precedent [6,15–16]. Likewise, the characteristic feature of framing narratives is derived from the Vedas [5]. In the Vedas we also find the models for such organising principles as the Saṁyutta principle of grouping texts by topic,3 and the Aṅguttara principle of grouping them according to number [2, 23–24] [3, 101]. The EBT frequently share metaphors and imagery with the Vedic literature. Indeed, we can point to several shared similes in just one Upaniṣadic passage, the dialogue between Yājñavalkya and his wife Maitreyī: the origin of the sound of the conch or the lute, (DN 23.19/DĀ 7/MĀ 71/T 45 vs. Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 2.4.7–9), the rivers that merge in the ocean (AN 8:19 vs. Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 2.4.11), and the ocean that every- where has one taste, the taste of salt (AN 8.157 vs. Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 2.4.11)

>>18204089
Sacrifice is an exception. Notice that cows are one of the pure animals, fit for sacrifice - so are humans according to the Veda. It makes sense that you won't kill unworthy animals for the sacrifice but also you won't kill the pure animals in your daily life. As a western example, see the sacrifice of a horse for the ides of march, romans would kill one horse after he won a race - only the best is fit for the sacrifice to Mars.

>>18204089
Can't feed the peasants beef, it's reserved for the ruling class by the morality of economic scarcity. Once Hinduism ceased being a religion of Aryans, and become a religion of their mixed children, the economic morality of the underclass became the religious morality of the whole.

Vedic Aryans were a steppe pastoralist people, like all pastoralists they ate a high meat diet and it was probably responsible in part for their superior health and vigour that repeatedly saw them invade and conquer agricultural peoples, only to sucumb to the same weaknesses once they took up the diet of the conquered and be easy prey the for next lot of steppe pastrolist invaders.

>>18207583
>>18207624

We find proof that Hindu Brahmins were already practicing asceticism before Buddha in the very Pali Canon itself:

In the Suttanipata (in the Khuddaka Nikaya) verses 976-978 a Brahmin priest is described who despite being conversant in the mantras of the Vedas is described by the text as wandering the countryside, living off the fruits of trees and wishing for (or desiring) nothing

>>18204089
>This is an incoherent religion.
no shit dingus it's not empirical
different states do different things and u need them at different times

>>18204106
Where in the world does it say that?

>>18207743
>>In the Suttanipata (in the Khuddaka Nikaya) verses 976-978 a Brahmin priest is described who despite being conversant in the mantras of the Vedas is described by the text as wandering the countryside, living off the fruits of trees and wishing for (or desiring) nothing
those are the old brahmins, at the end of their career, precisely as some mimetic larp deceiving the NPC laymen of the sramanas who spend their whole life in the woods

>>18204089
1. "Hinduism" does not exist. There are many practices that claim descent from the original Vedic faith that the British decided to group together under the label of Hinduism.
2. Even if it did exist, it is separated from the Vedic faith by thousands of years. Much has changed in that time. That is all.

>>18206379
Read Timothy Fitzgerald.

>>18204089
>>18207344
There are Hindus in north-eastern India that sacrifice cows today.

This stuff about brahmins passing as ascetics is really a late meme in the upanishads, ie a pure social reactions to the wanderers

>>18208767
Thats wrong, its mentioned multiple times in the very first Upanishad, the Brihadaranyaka, which predates Buddha by centuries. Would you like me to post the passages?