/lit/ - Literature

>>18335535
Literary genius is mostly just someone willing to put in the work and spend years researching, writing, and rewriting until it is perfect. Few people can spend all day every day for years rewriting a novel to perfection.

>>18335555
Blessed post

>>18335535
How does a mind even work like his?

>>18335535
>For De Mille, young fur-henchmen can't be rowing!
that mad bastard

>>18335535
>>18335555
>>18337737
5535
5555
7737

>>18338712
based? what does it mean?

>>18335555
>>18335563
>>18338712
>>18337737
Incredibly based.

>>18335535
You'd be good too if you finished writing a book. Believe in yourself

>>18335535
Yes, he's a literal genius. He studied the hardest science program at Cornell and would have graduated at the top of his class had he not joined the Navy.

>>18339137
He was rejected for math school

>for demille young fur-henchmen can't be rowing!
The pun king. Mason and dixon is a hair away from being as good as gravitys rainbow. Absolute genius. Also vineland is fire, fuck the haters

>>18339141
Because he didn't graduate to go into the Navy. Says nothing about his intellect.

>>18339137
>would have graduated at the top of his class had he not joined the Navy.

>>18339188
I think outcomes do say something about intellect, actually. I do think so.

>>18340777
Says a lot about your intellect

>>18340836
If you can even make it through college you’re probably retarded.

>>18341234
>>18340777

Was Pynchon a communist?

>>18341254
No. Is he a socialist? Absolutely.

>No. Is he a socialist? Absolutely.

>>18341257
>No. is he a socialist? Absolutely.
>>18341260
Learn how to (you) someone correctly you worthless newfag piece of human ass piss garbage.

>Learn how to (you) someone correctly you worthless newfag piece of human ass piss garbage.

>>18341301
Lick my shit faggot

>>18339137
He gave up in 2 years lol. And he failed calculus by his own admission. He is no genius, he just loves what he does and he is pretty good at it.

>Lick my shit faggot

>>18339188
He did graduate, with a degree in English. Worked at Boeing as a technical writer for years before applying to Berkeley for math, so no wonder they didn’t accept him. One of his ex gfs said his iqs was measured at 190

>>18341336
Put a finger in my ass and make me lick the grime off bb

>>18335555
>willing to put in the work and spend years researching
Retarded take and wast of quads. Literary geniuses are gifts from god and cannot be created through "work." Hard work alone can make at the very best a decent author.

>>18341372
t.never written a single word of value in his life.

>>18341372
I'm a literary genius i just write harry potter femdom erotica fanfic because i can't but coom.

>>18341353
>before applying to Berkeley for math, so no wonder they didn’t accept him.
That's not how it works. Somebody with a background in physics/maths (2 years of the most pretigious program at cornell) and 190 IQ has little chance of being rejected anywhere. He wrote that he wanted to study math after he published V. but was disappointed he couldn't make the transition. With 190 IQ that's impossible.

>>18341434
Lmao. Iq doesnt mean your just qualified for everything. Are you 11?

>>18341443
That's not what I said, retard.

>>18341434
>with 190 IQ that’s impossible
Joyce failed chemistry and probably had an IQ well into the 200s. You need to understand people really are wired differently. Not everything is a zero sum game

>>18341353
>One of his ex gfs said his iqs was measured at 190
Unfortunately, his rejection to a math program says otherwise.

>>18341459
Its literally what you said, eat my ass

>>18341466
>Joyce failed chemistry and probably had an IQ well into the 200s
Holy mother of newfag! Stop with this bullshit. Most writers don't have an IQ betond 150. Ted Kaczynski had 170 and his writing talent is meh. Literary talent has nothing to do with IQ, stop believing bullshit about your favourite writers like 12 year old starry eyed kids ffs.

>>18341470
>>18341466
>>18341434
>>18341353
>IQ

>>18341485
>Literary talent has nothing to do with IQ
Lol

>>18341477
You are retarded, nigger. 160 IQ practically makes you a math genius because the criteria to gauge IQ has strong affinity towards patterns and numbers aka the math processing part of intelligence. A guy who despite wishing to couldn't make the transition into the field (hell did not even complete his program and failed fucking calculus) simply can't have even 160 let alone 190.
>"bu-but his girlfriend say so"
I don't think his ex-gf would remember what those 3 digits were 50 fucking years ago.
Think logically

>>18341486
>height

>>18341491
Lmao@(you)
Read up what IQ means, stupid fag.

>>18341503
Pynchon was a technical writer for Boeing, you really have no fucking clue what you’re talking about, schoolboy.

>>18341503
>university looks at your iq: "wo dood wun hunderd niney eye cue, cum on in, doant bodder wit aktchuul preevyus skool rekwyremints u din git cuz u wer naevying"
Lmao

>>18341511
>technical writer for Boeing
Lmao. Yes, his cope for being a failed stembug.
Dumb marks like you would even believe that he was in contention for nobel prize in physics at one point.

Lmao what a gay thread /lit/ is fucking dead

>>18341503
>>18341511
If I took an average IQ of everyone whose been a technical writer for Boeing, and everyone whose passed calculus at Cornell, I can guarantee you right now one average is going to be distinctly higher than the other. You talk bullshit about IQ and literary talent, yet you assume that passing a class is only related to IQ. For all we know Pynchon dropped acid and smoked weed all day when he took it

>>18341529
Based take, he probs did

>>18341523
>"WAAH! DON'T BREAK MY NARRATIVE. PYNCHON IS SMARTER THAN EINSTEIN, PLEASE LET ME FEEL BETTER ABOUT MY SMOL BRAIN BY LIKING THIS WRITER"
Still stuck at University? As if that's the only way to get into the field.

>>18341529
>If I took an average IQ of everyone whose been a technical writer for Boeing, and everyone whose passed calculus at Cornell, I can guarantee you right now one average is going to be distinctly higher than the other.
Nobody is saying that he isn't smart. Neither would even touch 150 though.
>For all we know Pynchon dropped acid and smoked weed all day when he took it
You have never entered a STEM course, let alone a calculus class. If you have to study to pass the university calcus course, there are problems with you.

>>18341534
What? He was trying to get into university.

>>18341551
>You have never entered a STEM course, let alone a calculus class.
Lol, if only you knew

You can tell it's burger o'clock because they think calculus is a university level course

>>18341551
Utterly BTFO by >>18341529

>>18341561
More like slurper of cock bcuz they think pynchon is good lmao

>>18341561
>has almost every top university in the world
Yeah, good one

>>18341561
>math
Kys numeric fag

>>18341564
BTFOd here.
>>18341551
Stop hiding behind others you big pussy incel.

We still gotta talk about this rothschild?

>>18341529
>You talk bullshit about IQ and literary talent, yet you assume that passing a class is only related to IQ.
>A course designed for smart STEM people with incredible bias towards high IQ
>A practice even terrible students like Faulkner and dumbasses like Twain have become ATG at.
You have a lot to learn.

>>18341565
lmao

>>18341564
>t.coward incel

>>18341529
>>18341511
>>18341353
Why are people acting like being a technical writer is big deal for stemfags? It's a secondary preference at best. Your average engineering physics graduate from Cornell is most likely smarter than them.

Amerimutts and their "hard" literature, so annoying myself OP

I graduated with honors with a B.S. in mechanical engineering from Cornell and I've read The Calling of Lot 49 and Gravity's Rainbow and I can say with great confidence that Pynchon is a talent-deficient hack.

>>18335535
this was the golden age of /fa/

>>18342024
Well, you must have read the wrong book, then. The title is a little bit different.

>>18335535
He isn't.

>>18341353
Do you think his ex girlfriend also measured his dick

>>18341234
He made it through college. Just with a degree in English.

>>18342539
before it became retarded

>>18341511
>Pynchon was a technical writer for Boeing
>this somehow means he was a STEMCHAD
Holy mother of cope!

>>18341372
I implied a hell of a lot more than just "work" with my post. If you spend 5 years working 8 hours every day on a novel you are going to spend 4 of those years with a terrible novel, perhaps bits and pieces will be great but they will just make the rest seem all the worse. Most people will not be able to suffer through that, it will drain and demoralize them and they will give up. Being able to stay focused on that end goal and not give up is simply something most are not wired for, especially when getting published or having any sort or recognition for it all is not a sure thing.

If you look into the lives of most everyone who stands the test of time and is considered a great and a genius in the arts, they all have one thing in common, they dedicated most every moment of free time to their goal.

>>18341313
No way. Post where he failed Calculus. Sounds like BS to me.

>>18342950
The same article where the 190 IQ claim comes from.

>>18335555
>mostly
It's the stuff you didn't mention that is the difference between "published author" and "literary genius".

>>18338805

>>18341313
>failed calculus by his own admission. He is no genius
failing calculus is proof that someone is not a genius? are you kidding?

>>18335535
He's brilliant stylist, has great sense of humor and that 60s hippie free mind attitude.

>>18343039
>failing calculus is proof that someone is not a genius
Have you ever given a calculus exam? You could go there with just high school knowledge and still do enough to pass it. Failing a subject is not an issue but failing this specific subject is, especially with his math inspirations and all.

>>18343027
I was not talking about "published authors," most published authors do not spend years on single novel.

He had that mad lad Nabokov as his prof too.

>>18335535
Where do I start with Pynchon? Any good charts?

>>18335555
>>18341372
It's a combination of effort and cerebral serendipity. Some people are just born with better brains. The choice is up to them to squander that potential or refine their talents . Certainly not everyone who sits and tries to get better will become a genius, but someone with a golden brain who has no interest applying it will not effortlessly achieve exceptional results.

>>18342024
The fastest man in the world is black so what's your point?

>>18343707
Most people would start with The Crying of Lot 49 because it's short and pretty easy to follow. Some might prefer Inherent Vice because it introduces many of his typical themes but with a much more outwardly comic presentation than his more "serious" work.

I started with Mason & Dixon and loved it, but I know a lot of people have difficulty with the parody of 18th century English orthography that he employs throughout.

Or you could go chronologically and start with V., an ambitious yet messy and in my opinion often tedious book written by a young man in his twenties who has not yet outgrown imitating his immediate influences, in this case the beats. Needless to say I don't recommend doing that.

>>18343707
Start with his best, comfiest, funniest, and most distinctive, that is, Mason & Dixon.

>>18335555
cringe

>>18343750
Everyone is saying Pinecone is a genius because he squeaked through an English degree at Cornell, which isn't impressive at all. He's a hack and his knowledge of math and science is a joke. When I read Gravity's Rainbow, several passages stuck out to me, like when Slothtrope is trying to get away from whoever that U.S. guy is who's trying to arrest him and bring him in for testing and they're racing through the tunnels and the tunnels are mentioned to be in the shape of a double integral symbol. It struck me as this really banal observation. Like someone who has never read the bible, but finds great profundity in Genesis (1:1).

>>18345194
Lmao, imagine not tryinf to understand the thematic scaffolding that observation plays a role in

>>18344817
>Quads
>Cringe
Choose one

>>18341443
>>18341466

IQ literally just means learning speed. If he had a 200 fucking IQ that means he literally learns things faster than ANY OTHER HUMAN in existence.

>>18345207

He had a shallow understanding of math. Arbitrarily referencing a double integral symbol isn't intelligent it's pretentious.

>>18345400
The fact that you think its arbitrary tells me you have a shallow understanding of pynchon.

>>18345194
Don't care for Pynchon but you better shut up about Genesis, lil bitch.

>>18341313
>he failed calculus by his own admission
I'm pretty sure he has accurate calculus metaphor in GR.
> But in the dynamic space of the living Rocket, the double integral has a different meaning. To integrate here is to operate on a rate of change so that time falls away: change is stilled. . . . "Meters per second" will integrate to "meters." The moving vehicle is frozen, in space, to become architecture, and timeless. It was never launched. It will never fall.
So he at least understands the somewhat subtle difference between integrating over space to find a weighted average (double integral used for center of mass, which he talks about in the paragraphs prior), and integrating over something which represents a rate-of-change. Weird to _fail_ calculus and have that understanding.

>>18345706
>Weird to _fail_ calculus and have that understanding
Not at all. One is an exam and the other is in a published book that took over a decade to write. Besides, he could have read up on it later.

>>18345194
>tunnels are mentioned to be in the shape of a double integral symbol. It struck me as this really banal observation.
well, okay, but the point is that the architect who designed the mittelwerk would have also used double integrals to calculate the centers of mass and moments of inertia of what he was building. and that double integrals have uses for rocket guidance & oscillating circuits. it's more of a poetic observation of the ubiquity of the concept, not simply this banal observation "wow, they like kinda like double integrals heh heh" like you are suggesting.

>>18345720
The more simple explanation is that it's a myth.

>>18345755
The article says "Pynchon admitted" or something like that and it's not a joke article, don't see why they would put words in his mouth. He probably wrote it in one of his many letters.
And I don't see how that metaphor suggests that he couldn't have failed calculus. I haven't done any math since high school but understand it's meaning perfectly fine. It's just a general observation behind the concept of integral than any rigorous mathematics.

>>18345706
>So he at least understands the somewhat subtle difference between integrating over space to find a weighted average and integrating over something which represents a rate-of-change.
>(((subtle)))
Are you for real?

>>18345787
>suggests that he couldn't have failed calculus
I shouldn't have suggested that, but I guess I did, and I find myself arguing a position that isn't really the point. I just get the feeling people are trying to write-off Pynchon's scientific/mathematical knowledge as superficial, nothing your average AP student couldn't achieve. But the fact is that he has a very poetic understanding of math that goes far beyond what most STEM students are usually left with after their education. It's an important part of the book, and it's something I've never seen anywhere else. So maybe he failed the class, fine, but like you said eventually he acquired the knowledge.
>I haven't done any math since high school but understand it's meaning perfectly fine.
So can you explain the difference between integrating over time vs. space? The point, in fact, is that there isn't any rigorous mathematical difference. That's why it's subtle. But it unifies two disparate concepts one doesn't normally intuitively identify.

>>18345862
Yes, in fact there is no rigorous mathematical difference between those two things. So it's more than just subtle.

>>18345863
>That's why it's subtle. But it unifies two disparate concepts one doesn't normally intuitively identify.
>>18345862
>Are you for real?
Actually, you are just making my exact point from the point of view of someone unaware of this connection lol

>>18345909
>the point of view of someone unaware of this connection
What is the connection then?
Integrating over space and over time are intuitive. Integrating over time the rate of change of position would give you it (COM) distance from original postion. Integrating over space would give you its centre of mass.

pynchon likes to present himself as some sort of gifted engineer who condescended to become a writer but he didn't pass calculus

dude, if you can't pass calculus you're not a fucking engineer, period

>>18345909
>>18345948
So he is probably freezing the rocket at a given instant by doing away with the rate of change making it similar to architechture. "Dynamic space" might refer to the rocket in 4D vision. Like snapshots taken at that instant.

>>18345948
What do you mean "what is the connection"? They are both integrals, you already know that.
>would give you it (COM) distance from original postion
By (COM), do you mean center of mass? Integrating over time has nothing to do with the center of mass (unless you are integrating over the time rate of change of the center of mass position, but you can also just integrate over the time rate of change of a position that isn't the center of mass, so I don't get your point here).

>>18345978
pynchon can write eloquently about math and concepts all he likes, but the whole STEM/engineer shit is pure pretension. he couldn't hack the real thing - therefore, he is a hack.

>>18345978
If you do a double time integral, two of the dimensions are time, whereas in this 4D example only one dimension is time.

>>18345986
>unless you are integrating over the time rate of change of the center of mass position
Yeah, the standard place from where velocity vector is placed in dynamics.
>what do you mean "what is the connection"?
You was talking about some subtle connection that I was apparently unaware of.

>>18345999
He did not doubly integrate it in the metaphor. you can do it with acceleration though.

>>18346000
>Yeah, the standard place from where velocity vector is placed in dynamics.
But that is irrelevant here, in principle you can talk about the velocity of anything you'd like. Not just things they'd like you to think about in freshman physics.
>You was talking about some subtle connection that I was apparently unaware of.
The connection is that they are both integrals. That's it. They are both Riemann sums, and as I've said previously, there is no rigorous mathematical difference. That's the only connection.
>>18345862
This post seems to think the difference between those two things is not subtle at all, when in fact there is no mathematical difference.

>>18346049
>The connection is that they are both integrals.
I will say it again then>>18345862
I mean this is obvious to anybody who has heard of integrals. Integrals have same procedure for operation for time and space, I don't see what's so profound or (subtle) about that.

>>18346069
You don't feel these things are conceptually completely unalike? That is, calculating centers of mass of two-dimensional objects and distances traveled from accelerations (where the motion is in any number of spacial dimensions)?
When I imagine an integral over space visually, I imagine it automatically. If I try to imagine an integral of the acceleration visually, I can do it of course, but it takes a second of thought to arrange everything correctly and understand why it works.

>>18346127
>You don't feel these things are conceptually completely unalike?
I do. In fact it's very in your face which is why I was taken aback at the (subtle) remark. But then you said that the subtle difference was that their is no mathematical difference, which again is pretty in your face. I thought there was something I was legitimately unseeing but there wasn't it turns out.

>>18346147
*there
Dumb autocorrect

>>18346147
Ah, I understand. Part of the issue is that I initially misinterpreted what you meant, so I might have written something confusing.
And sure, this fact that totally different concepts are mathematically identical might be a very "in your face" fact to some people, but in my experience at university people never take their time to realize that type of thing. They are more mechanical and would tell you "of course these two things are the same, they are just defined that way, there is nothing surprising here".

>>18346197
It's alright, matey.

>>18335535
he was selected for a national top science program in the US out of hundreds of thousands, and some people here claim he couldn't be an engineer? With an IQ > 160? Are you guys retarded? What's the hardest thing to be you think? An acclaimed author or an engineer? Hint: world famous acclaimed author, you can just calculate how many there are VS how many engineers. Absolute seething retards here.

bump

>>18347523
This.

>>18347523
I agree. JK Rowling, John Green, and Stephen King are all much smarter than the average engineer.

>>18347594
JK Rowling is a moron.

>>18347607
How many engineers have sold as many books as her?

>>18347645
No idea. Couldn't care less.

>>18347594
That's why I said 'acclaimed'.
Nobody here would call those three acclaimed in the lit sense (of course they are commercially). But even if you counted commercially and critically acclaimed authors, there would be way less than there are engineers.

>>18339141

>>18343063
Though it was probably different 60 years ago, and I never took a calc course there, I know some really smart fuckers do terrible in easier classes while I was at Cornell. The intro classes were all the hardest because they somehow had to try and balance the kids who didn't have calculus offered at their school with the kids who've taken the whole of calculus before hitting 10th grade at their private science high school. Half of my intro class exams were just the professor picking the most obscure line he could find from the textbook and making a question that you couldn't possibly get right unless you remembered it word for word. Nowadays they curve it so all the idiots like me get a B- and like 1 kid gets an A+, but back then they probably actually let people fail.

If he failed one of his upper level courses, THAT would concern me. But again, 60 year difference.

>18341309
>18341298
hahahahaha trannies are so pathetic.

>>18347523
>he was selected for a national top science program in the US out of hundreds of thousands
Tbf getting into ivy has never been just about being smart. He is from one of the wealthier families out there. And he did not stick through with the course either. Good high school grades and load of cash and that's enough.
>What's the hardest thing to be you think?
Somebody like Faulkner barely made it through high school but he is America's most acclaimed writer. I agree, literary talent is rarer than most other talents, however it in no way implies that the writer is smarter or could have been an engineer. The skillsets are too different, that is not to say Pynchon couldn't have been one. The ceiling for entry for an engineer is really fucking low desu, most people can become one actually if they tried.

>>18341298
learn how to quote correctly newfag. Not everyone deserves (you)s