/lit/ - Literature

>>18423235
Yes.

>>18423235
He has said on multiple occasions that people should take prescription drugs to cope with mental illness.

>>18423235
Here is a great analysis of Jordan Peterson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDfj8DOY52c

>>18423239
Expand on that

>>18423868
Whom are you quoting?

>>18423235
I keep hearing people say he had a benzodiazepine addiction which is just a blatant lie. The real story is a 10-second google search away.

>In April 2019, his prescribed dosage of clonazepam was increased to deal with the anxiety he was experiencing as a result of his wife's cancer diagnosis.[186][187][188] Starting several months later, he made various attempts to lessen his intake, or stop taking the drug altogether, but experienced "horrific" benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome, including akathisia,[189] described by his daughter as "incredible, endless, irresistible restlessness, bordering on panic".[190][186] According to his daughter, Peterson and his family were unable to find doctors in North America who were willing to accommodate their treatment desires, so in January 2020, Peterson, his daughter and her husband flew to Moscow, Russia for treatment.[191]

Basically his doctor gave him some medication to deal with depression, then his wife got cancer which made it worse, he made the mistake of going off the medication which had very bad withdrawal effects. About a year or so later and he’s back pretty healthy and intact, doing interviews, podcasts, and so on. If anything he clearly did follow his own advice considering how much he’s recovered. But I guess if your goal is to lampoon him and make him look dumb/wrong/evil then the real story is inconvenient.

I see no evidence that he’s a fraud, he seems to believe what he’s saying. Even if he’s wrong (and there are things he says that I don’t agree with) I see no reason why someone can’t be both wrong and honest. Mistakes and oversights occur. That doesn’t mean someone is lying.

>>18423235
The worst kind of fraud, a hypocritical e-daddy for zoomers who have no male role models in their lives.

>>18423235
Yes, all jungians are frauds.

No, he’s one of the few public figures who is not a fraud.

What you saw with his mental breakdown is what happens to a person who finds fame and isn’t a sociopath or psychopath. Such fame as is now possible in the digital age is unnatural to the human experience. The amount of stress that it brings will utterly break anyone with a conscience. Most famous people who stay famous are narcissistic sociopaths who don’t experience normal human emotions like shame and guilt.

>>18423235
Jordan Memerson is an illiterate. Imagine reading an illiterate who claims to be an intellectual.

The man has always been a neurotic mess. Here's a post from an anon in 2013 (long before Peterson became popular) who attended the same university: >>/lit/thread/S3485903#p3486164
His actions post-fame aren't surprising.

He makes leftists seethe uncontrollably

>>18424331
Meh, nothing too out of the ordinary.

>>18423235
Periodic reminder that psychology and psychiatry are pseudo sciences.
Nabokov used to refer to Freud as "the charlatan from Vienna". This is the charlatan from Toronto or wherever the fuck he's from.

>>18423235
He got over prescribed, got addicted, but FOUGHT IT and WON. Soon, he'll be free. In the book, the addict never really tried to kick the habit, which is why he was toxic

>>18423235

I don't know if he's a "fraud". I notice people tend to describe intellectuals they disagree with as "grifters" nowadays. Aside from certain exceptions (i.e Dave Rubin), I don't think this is a useful way of looking at it. The real problem is far more troubling: Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Eric Weinstein, etc. more or less genuinely believe everything they say, even if they are massively wrong ninety percent of the time.

lol who cares

>>18424299
>he didn't have a benzo addiction
>went through benzo withdrawal
Bro

>>18423235
Overhyped? Yes.
This is mostly due to his ability to make leftists seethe uncontrollably (probably because he's less academic and writes mind-numbing self-help). Nonetheless I do find myself referring to his ideas often as he does have an amazing nose at spotting the fundamental problems of existence and the problem of Evil. He's also keen on the way we construct our individual narratives.

>>18424573
Associating withdrawal symptoms when coming off of prescribed medication with the stigma attached to drug addiction, and all the negative connotations such a label entails, is a dishonest smear.

Physical addiction to a prescribed drug and having to seek treatment due to withdrawal symptoms, the severity of which are not commensurate with abuse, is not indicative of being a "drug addict."

>>18423235
He's not a fraud. Despite all its flaws, there was something interesting and novel about his approach. He just cashed out too much (physically and spiritually), and now it's catching up to him.

>>18424331
This post reads like it was written by a teenage girl.

>>18423235
He understands Jung better than most but despite his extensive years of research he still doesnt understand what exactly the collective unconscious is. Like most psueds he doesnt really understand its role past the individual. He either ignores the part of it that talks about the collective unconscious as a interconnected living plane as well as its implications in favor of the bull headed modern theory that human consciousness and biology are interconnected.

That being said the fact that he was able to make jungian ideas easily accessible and have some success bringing it into the mainstream is impressive. He did use it however to profit greatly but still.

>>18424899
*are not interconnected

>>18424852
>girl
Let’s he honest, most of the people with strong negative feelings towards such an innocuous man are failed males who pretend to be girls. Such basic life advice as he gives cuts very deep when the tranny is subjected to it. They know deep down that if they had heard his advice earlier they never would have trooned out. For that reason it causes them much pain

>>18423235
All ideas of human "control" and "management" are doomed. The one and only answer is GOD through the king Christ Jesus. Any and all human "logic" and efforts are ultimate failures.

>>18424899
There is no collective unconscious, the entire project is predicated on Bastian and Semon's Lamarckian quackery. There's a reason the behaviorists, then the cyberneticists, dismissed it.

>>18425013
>There's a reason the behaviorists, then the cyberneticists, dismissed it.
The reason is the individualist status quo.

>>18423239
/thread

>>18424832
there's nothing wrong with being an addict anon, it's whether or not if you choose to treat it that matters

>>18423235
Every self help book, including 12 rules for life, is common sense.
>Furthermore, Peterson always harps on about self-care, order, and awareness. But does his addiction not nullify everything he's done and taught, including show a sham in his knowledge of his profession?
I mean, you could ask that question about anyone. Nietzsche was by all accounts a pussy. Marx never gave a cent to anyone.

>>18424832
>it's different because of my subjective moral judgement and "social stigma"
Wack

>>18425146
If you are prescribed Prednisone to treat xyz medical ailment, the doctor will have you take seven pills one day, six the next, five the next, and so on and so forth until you're no longer taking any at all because stopping a course of Prednisone right after taking a large amount of it will make you sick. Stepping down the dose like that prevents you from getting sick. But you aren't "addicted" to Prednisone, the neurochemistry isn't that way at all.

Side-effects from ceasing a medication can sometimes be due to addiction, but they are not always.

>>18425146
Nothing subjective about what was written. You're thinking of your choice not to believe him (and you don't have any evidence to doubt what he's saying and mountains upon mountains of examples as to why you should give little heed to accusations against him).

>>18423235
If Chris is the guy I'm thinking of [don't have the book to hand] then I read that bit as being a cautionary tale about resentment. That was the bloke he lived with for a while who was all full of bitterness and let it consume him.
Regarding the benzos, Peterson seems like he did always place a lot of faith in pharmaceuticals, even while focussing on psychological interventions and taking responsibility and so on. I'm sure he's readjusted his views since then, having learned the hard way, but I don't think it invalidates his basic claims at all. To err is human. And let's not forget he was under relentless attack from all sides for 3 years non-stop and he's clearly a sensitive guy.

>>18423235
This thread has been made for fucking years, and only because people cant accept that he is legit.

Wake up bro and get on with your fucking life rather than spinning your wheels in place for 5+ years.

>>18423235
Just read Jung. Peterson isn't special or original.

>>18424832
You're talking to a bunch of weasel lefties and assorted halfwits. They are only here to smear Peterson and nothing else.

>>18423235
He's a lecturer and writer of self-help books who's "teachings" are Youtube clickbait fodder
You don't get much more sham than that unless you join the I-can-bend-spoons-with-my-mind crowd

>>18424573
Simpleton

>>18425588
You sound like a giant loser lol

>>18423235
irl ned pointsman lul

>>18423235
Tu quoque.
Not an argument.
KYS

>>18426182
peterweenie detected

420blazitfgt

>>18424299
Quality post. This man is misrepresented constantly.

>>18424951
I don't hate Peterson, I just don't understand why so many people are enchanted by him when he speaks

>>18423235
God, JP is just such a pretentious cunt. You just know that he had to take that photo at least five times because the previous four weren’t ‘deep’ and ‘mysterious’ enough.

>>18424323
>t. Peterberg

>>18423235
yes but so are most academics

>>18423235
>clean your room!
>doesn't clean his room
>gets cucked by his daughter
He might be a retard that doesn't follow his own advice or a fraud.

>>18424299
>Starting several months later, he made various attempts to lessen his intake, or stop taking the drug altogether, but experienced "horrific" benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome, including akathisia,[189] described by his daughter as "incredible, endless, irresistible restlessness, bordering on panic".
Sounds like an addiction to me.

>>18423235
I’ve never seen any one on antidepressants who hasn’t ended up more of a wreck because of them. There’s a period where the antidepressants *do* actually work, but then they start causing the person to gradually act crazier, or mentally shut down altogether— and all the while the person will claim that the pills helping. Meanwhile they slide into an abyss.

There's at least 3 posters in here who watch Hasan Piker for their news.

>>18429100
what's the tell

>>18423235
He's just another tool of the establishment. He pushes globohomo, miscegenation, matriarchy, and conformity just like every other shill. You'd think for someone who's read so much Jung he'd have a little more Aryan-consciousness but I guess he's too narrow minded.

>>18429107

Over-emotionality and scrotal pain as a result of finasteride use.

>>18423235
So, peterson has a divided Self. While he can wander the universe of chaos, he can't put order to his own life.

His version of order is also feminine. It's why he's so into the metaphor of Belle soothing the Beast. Also why he gets bitchy at women, feminism, etc.

That's about it. He's super smart, just an idiot. We all trip over our own feet, he's just managed to pick himself up long enough to get this far.

>>18429455

All Peterson was was an enthusiastic lecturer and genuinely compassionate clinician. For as much as he talks about Stavros, he himself is a Myshkin. The things he says that got him internationally attention are, objectively, neither radical nor reactionary, nor would they even be remotely controversial is this were even two decades prior. He got excoriated for being one of only a few academics to raise an alarm to the dangers of government mandating speech (and he was absolutely right, a man was jailed in the last few months for refusing to use his son's pronouns, split hairs about it being contempt of court all you want, that's literally a "a state's right to what?" mental gymnastic). His acclaim is a regurgitation of age old Stoicistic and Judeo-Christian morals, with some Jungian garnish, but for a generation of chuds abandoned by society, it seems epiphanic.

What was he motivated by in both those instances? A desire to help people, because he's still at his core the enthusiastic lecturer and compassionate clinician. Watch his old university lessons and it's readily apparent how much earnest enjoyment he had with what he was doing. Then consider that that sentimental, humanistic dad was forced into the rolls of Atlas and Hitler on the world stage. Any one would have collapsed under that kind of stress, especially with a stage four cancer diagnosis of your spouse. The real miracle isn't that he recovered from the benzo spiral, it's that he hasn't fucking killed himself or gone back into an epileptic fugue state.

>>18423235
He's well-qualified to lecture on neuroscience.

The vast majority of self-help books are borderline fraudulent anyway, so in that regard he's like the rest of those authors.

A lot of professors write inconsequential popular garbage to cash in. Not exactly fraudulent, but an abuse of credentials.

>>18429545
How exactly was this supposed to be a response to my post?

>>18423235
>>18423239

>>18429545
Motivated by a desire to help people, you say? Does helping people involve robbing your manbaby followers blind by pitching them $2000 rugs?

>>18423235
he's a standard academic. if you think peterson is a fraud, you'd share similar views for most academics.

>>18429724
>He's well-qualified to lecture on neuroscience.
t. knows nothing about neuroscience, psychology, or Peterson's psychological writings.

>>18423235
yes.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

>>18425146
this but unironically

>>18423235
>Is X a fraud?
Read their works and decide for yourself.
>His addiction...
A physician got the flu, oy vey, what a fraud! Great logic there...
>>18423405
He looks like someone who hasn't worked a day in his life and can't wait to slack off on Labor Day.
>>18424690
>Overhyped? Yes.
I very much agree with this.

>>18425588
His book was based on a reply he posted on quora, lmfao.

>>18424339
He makes this board seethe more. I don't get these daily threads, almost seems coordinated to denounce him. If you like him, nobody here with any braincells cares, likewise if you don't like him. He has some useful things to say in an accessible way for people who haven't read maybe as much as the average person on here claims, just avoid it if it offends you.

>>18423235
I find myself very compatible with most of his advice and it has helped me on multiple occasions. Everything else is just noise as far as I'm concerned.

>>18425139
>Every self help book, including 12 rules for life, is common sense.
this is absolutely true for 12 rules but that doesn't mean it's not valuable. sometimes rephrasing a problem can make all the difference (or putting into words things you know intuitively but can't make proper sense of).

>>18423239
First time I agree with Butterfly

>>18423235
He seems to genuinely believe what he says and people who have listened and taken his advice to heart seem to be doing better than before at least the ones I know. Let's not forget that his rise to fame came from him standing up for his principles.
That aside I really don't know why he makes people seethe so much. Most of his lectures and writings are simply solid advice given my most self help types but with a deeper thinking into why these things are good for you and why you should do them.

>>18429080
And you sound like a dishonest piece of shit to me.

>>18429099
Antidepressants are (supposed to be) a temporary solution. They are supposed to give you a time of respite from your own cycle of mental self destruction that should ideally be used to sort your issues out. Its supposed to be a stopgag while you work out your neuroses in a more permanent way.
But people are lazy and companies want to keep selling happy pills so it doesn't happen.

>>18423235
He got addicted because of prescription drugs for a medical problem. They allowed him to be functional and a working member of society. When it became a problem he then did his best to rid himself of the addiction.

Not sure what lack of virtue you see there.

That's not the same as giving up on life in order to seek cheap pleasure and oblivion in constant drug-induced highs.

>>18423405
This video is pretty good, but the title misrepresents it as though it were a refutation of Peterson. Its only refutational point is that Peterson can't make any claims of absolute truth against postmodern skepticism (something that can be levelled at any thinkers opposing themselves to relativism), as well as his brash characterisation of postmodernism as a Marxist trick. It says nothing unfavourable about Peterson's theories as a pragmatic form of ethics and guidance. In fact it seems to be quite generous towards him, placing him in a tradition of postmodern, yet classically liberal (conservative) Christian thinkers.

>>18432972
God is it another video of Marxists crying that Peterson doesn't have the exact same definition of "Marxism" as them? Will they ever shut up?

>>18432280
Awwe. Sorry about your YouTube dad, anon.

>>18423235
>post-modern Marxism
Both those ideologies are trash but they're also contradictory, Marxism is the quintessential modernist ideology thus Peterson is a pseud.
BUT he's probably responsible for more tranny suicides than any other person on Earth so I can't hate him.

>>18429099
Muh anecdata discounts the usage of a broad range of medications, cmon dude.

>>18424951
>Such basic life advice as he gives cuts very deep when the tranny is subjected to it.
I'm not even a tranny and that one hit me deep. Good post anon.

>>18427032
He offers basic life advice that isn't just "men should act like women" crapola like 90% of the discussion around men.
He's popular because he offers something different and actually helpful (or at least not actively harmful).
He's still a pseud, though.

>>18433195

>>18423235
i started reading philosophy more during lockdown when i couldnt see my friends
now i realized all the philosophy retards here have never had friends
that said clean your room

>>18423239
define what you mean by yes

>get on jre
>become famous

happens many such times. not to say they don't deserve it but honestly there are hundreds of living people that deserve the attention. unfortunately there is only so much normie headspace to fill.

I’m someone who was borderline obsessed with the when he rose to prominence. I watched pretty much all his YouTube videos, listened to his Genesis series like twice, and has probably read 12 Rules 5 times. My take is this:

The guys advice helped me a lot. I was a struggling alcoholic who was wasting away at a shitty community college. Much of his advice is just common sense, but the people seething about that fail to acknowledge that not every young man grows up with common sense. There are probably thousands of young men who are better of because of him, myself included. I am grateful to him for that.

That being said, he didn’t deserve the deification he got. Watching him fall from grace with his drug problem was discouraging, even if it did remove the scales from my eyes on how I saw him. I haven’t watched anything from him since his recover because I don’t have anything more to learn from him. I wish him well, but I do cringe at how much past me was into him.

I don’t know dick all about Frued or Jung so I’ll leave criticisms of his take on them to other anons

>>18425013
Sucks to be you, hylic.

His message is not really all that original, but it is necessary right now in the US. Christianity has lost its dogmatic hold over society. Religion has lost the battle of literal truth with science in the west.
Most young people in the west are atheists now or at least hold a very loose view of God that is separate from christian churches or scripture. More deistic in nature than real theism.

As a result the christian values of the west have been weakened. Other ideologies that can be roughly summarized under the umbrella term "progressivism" have grown immensely in popularity as a result and threaten to overthrow established western society (for better or worse).

Peterson's message is basically "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". Just because the literal interpretations of the bible have been defeated that does not mean there is no value in scripture and the christian tradition.

Instead of arguing for the literal truth of scripture, he is arguing for its truth in utility. Maybe believing in something that might not be literally true in the scientific sense is beneficial anyway. The lessons and moral teachings of Christianity have evolved together with the western civilization, they are a mirror and a backbone. If you appreciate what the west has accomplished, then you should avoid ripping out its backbone.

For this he has crafted an attractive package based on Jung's ideas. Of the stories in scripture being metaphors of the human psyche, rather than recordings of facts or literal commandments. Not exactly original, but why not give him credit for bringing these ideas to so many people.

>>18423235
I'm not a huge Peterson fan but I do have an MA in clinical psychology and you clearly are unfamiliar with how the entire system, academic and clinical, works.
>It is about his profession
He's a highly acclaimed researcher with over 100 scientific publications and with a good clinical track record. Obviously he's not professionally fraudulent, as he has done fine work and has the correct credentials.
>his teachings
Mainly are just mainstream psychology in his lectures.
>and his philosophy
I think he's wrong about a fair number of things in philosophy, but that doesn't make him a fraud any more than Descartes.
>But does his addiction not nullify everything he's done and taught, including show a sham in his knowledge of his profession?
Not at all. His addiction wasn't the result of taking drugs for fun. It was a result of taking a prescription medication as a medical doctor prescribed it. Psychology =/= psychiatry; psychologists cannot, in most parts of the world, prescribe medication. Few if any psychology programs teach in-depth knowledge about medication beyond basic familiarity with what typical clients may be taking. In fact, it is fraudulent for a psychologist to demand a client be given a specific medication; they require an evaluation by a psychiatrist who can provide the prescription, and those are medical doctors. Furthermore, you don't understand how scientific fields work. Peterson mainly researched personality dimensions, not the effects of medications. It's not uncommon for a scientist to be essentially clueless about parts of their field which are outside of their specialty. There is no reason why Peterson would have specialized knowledge of psych meds, and there is no reason why he would have a better understanding of them than the MD psychiatrist who prescribed them to him.
>could not use his heightened sense of knowledge, logic, or reason to manage his anxiety or recognize his own problem
Many psychology ethics professors will state that it is not technically malpractice to treat clients without medication, but it is always preferable to treat clients who are also prescribed medication. The outcomes are overwhelmingly better overall with a combination of psychotherapy and medication. There is nothing fraudulent about a psychologist taking medication when they have an issue that medication could solve.
>couldn't even manage his own behavior when his entire profession is to manage behavioral dysfunction.
*cognitive dysfunction
Filthy Skinnerian detected.
>to put the blame of his own actions on his wife
Familial issues are a common source of stress in the field. Only someone uneducated in psychology or clinical treatment would underplay the importance of environmental stressors stemming from family dynamics. This is basic stuff.

>>18423235
>do you consider Jordan Peterson a fraud
No, he's a tragic victim of circumstances. His life is a parable for us all.

>>18435348
>with meat only
At least they’re not dualists.

>>18423235
>Is Jordan Peterson a fraud?
yes

>>18423235
I've heard one of his lectures. God, what a dense fuck. This dude knows absolutely nothing, his teaching license should be immediately removed by public authority.

>>18430355
>A physician
>>oy very
Discarded

>>18435348

daily Jordan Peterson seethe post #92673467294234870

>>18434338
>Is Jordan Peterson a fraud?
>Is he, in your eyes, a sham for this?