/lit/ - Literature

>>18798270
okay, but no racism

>>18798270
What style?
We’re at the crossroads of ironic post-modernism and unironic classicism.

>>18798270
You already did, it's called Dark Academia.

>>18798276
nigger

>>18798278
>ironic classicism.

>>18798276
Just to clarify, it's not racist to hate Americans, right?

the only movement this place could actually manage is new irreverence and I am not sure if that is worthwhile in anyway.

>>18798278
* Which
I’m writing on my phone right now

>>18798290
correct

>>18798296
I'm in.

>>18798276
Ok, but no non-whites allowed

>>18798278
I don't know, we have to figure it out.

Anons I am tired of feeling suicidal and tired of reading suicidal/depressing posts in "What's in you mind" thread and in other general threads. We need a sense of belonging with something which is real. Reading about all of the artists and art movements makes me really jealous that today for youth no such thing is going on. We all have the hunger to create, all we need is sense of community and support. Most of us already want to became poets, writers, architects, painters, digital artists, photographers, musicians etc. All we need is a start a genuine push towards something real drenched in struggle, patience and volcanic eruption of biles stored on our hearts.

Something anons, just something please.

It's in full force, and you're part of it.

>>18798278
>>18798287
>ironic classicism
How classicism can be ironic? Any examples?

>>18798325
Trust me, we're all gonna make it, Anon.

>>18798293
How it is new? Postmodern artists had shitted on traditional art concepts many decades ago. And today people make fun of anything on twitter.

>>18798347

>>18798270
The frozen shit fuckers. You start. I’ll catch up with you in a bit.

>>18798349
I see this phrase getting shilled a lot but I don't see any solidarity. There maybe is sincerity but it's too ephemeral and disassociated to the point where it isn't real.

>>18798318
>kicking out the Irish
Shit art movement

>>18798369
This is a really old idea. Dada artists use to draw moustaches on Mona Lisa painting. And then in 70s came the appropriation artists who use to do this type of shit.

>>18798382
it's way better over on /fit/

>>18798388

>>18798325
a true artist would create on his own terms and not sit and type out that cringe shit. maybe you’re not cut out for creative endeavours, you just feel entitled to attention and praise because kids get snowflakeism beamed into their heads right after birth

>>18798389
May be it is but I feel like not many people their are interested in artistic or intellectual pursuits because there are interested in more masculine endeavours but art has a feminine and contemplative side to it.

>>18798325
I feel you, make these threads more often, maybe something will grow out of it

>>18798393
It's same thing bro

>>18798402
See how you got butt blasted over a hint of collective action. This is the type of toxic individualism that I am talking about. Those are my sincere thoughts and I don't care if those are cringe. I don't see anything wrong with craving for a sense of belonging and support system to get inspiration and helping each other to achieve for something more. Art movements like post-punk, surrealism, Dada etc. are responsible for making really great work. It just that in our times that everyone is choking on cock of toxic irony and cynicism while staring on their blue screens.

>>18798414
Yeah, that's what I am going to do. I have not many hopes because why stop when you're already losing.

>>18798325
I understand where you're coming from anon. I admire your sincerity, and I think I actually have a similar outlook and desire to build a new artistic movement. You know what?

evil bastard#3358

At the very least, it would be nice to talk to another young writer.

>>18798355
I never said irreverence was new. Think a little before responding, you can figure this out, I have faith in you, anon.

>>18798474
Sorry anon I don't have a discord. I have interest in visual arts but I still lurk on /lit/ because anons here at least approach these subjects.

We can talk here and maybe other anons will join.

>>18798497
Sorry, I am an ESL.

>>18798280
cringe
>>18798325
that's why
frens post > suicidal post

We need manifesto, like in 1920s

>>18798541
Good idea, fwend, maybe we could write down the /lit/ Bibble.
Like a prepping digital guide for the 21st century.

>>18798541
>>18798545
this is way sadder than any of the shit you guys usually bitch and moan about

>>18798474

>>18798270
The way the world is configured, there can be no positive art movement. It can only get worse. Anything good is inherently impossible today, but you can move forward and invent something even more sad and degenerate that uses technology to do some novelty. Like you can have fantasy fiction that is tied to your social media posts. You read the book on your book reading app and as you get to a certain point it says a character sends another a message on (your IM of choice) and you get the message IRL on your device for "immersion". Shit tied to the performative social media act or whatever, layering realism with fiction and personal with the interpersonal.

>>18798564
110 IQ post.

>>18798564
>The way the world is configured, there can be no positive art movement. It can only get worse. Anything good is inherently impossible today, but you can move forward and invent something even more sad and degenerate that uses technology to do some novelty.
Imagine being this much of a killjoy.
go back to >>>/r9k/

alright. here's my contribution.

>>18798618
Dude... there's nothing.

We should create what we're seeking.
Freinds, happiness, belonging.
That should be the focus of the art. It will inspire people to do the same.

>>18798606
>>18798607
>copium.jpg

This is big chungus, signing out. Peace

>>18798645
sounds like you’re the one coping just because your preshus art can no longer be contained in mere paintings and poems and other dead practices

>>18798556

>>18798660
I am actually saying that the only way art can "move forward" is by piggybacking on increasingly cancerous technology so you are agreeing with me, but you think this is a good thing. of course you have no idea of a "good" art movement that can happen in this context because there are none. there can only be more fake, insincere garbage on more and more layers of post-modernist irony because we live in a society of artifice and this cannot be rolled back with no physical interpersonal relationships to verify that, not to mention that this circuit in our brains is becoming fried by constant exposure to artifice
I've seen kids who gesticulate like 3D cartoon characters while they talk, it's fucking unreal

>>18798676
>I've seen kids who gesticulate like 3D cartoon characters while they talk
Don't you think that mythology or theater or tales in the past has the same thing for kids? Why you are saying that it is degenerate? Wasn't the stories likes Aladdin and forty thieves also "artificial"?

Burger Punk

>>18798711
Ah, yes this the right sweet spot.

>>18798694
>people had puppet shows in the past and weird dances
>the kids were obviously incorporating that in their daily lives, literally moving like the puppets because they watched puppet shows obsessively 24/7
yes anon you are absolutely right, things in the past were exactly as today
the Greek gods were exactly like Marvel Superheoes, and so on

>>18798733
I said theater, mythology and tales so stop changes my words for your desired constructions. It is exactly how propaganda has been working since the start of civilization. You create desire in the masses so they can validate each other's desires for further validation.

>>18798387
white = european

>>18798382
>>18798325
>solidarity
>support
>community
Try Reddit

Let's write some plays about change and war to goad the populace into fighting.

>>18798825
Try /bant/ newfriend

i've been playing with the idea of several paintings in a sort of classic post-postmodern style based on some of Joseph Conrads texts for a few months now, the main one being the Judea from Youth burning down on the high sea.
The main take-away from postmodernists (or atleast my wikipedia tier understanding of them) would be that the painting is self-conscious. While the postmodern self-awareness is in large parts the whole thing that it is about, like the pipe that says this isnt a pipe, thats about it in terms of what it has to offer, this new thing would be willing to go further and actually make aesthetic use of that self-awareness. How?
The most obvious way would be in figurativly breaking the frame. Imagine something like a vignette or a gradient with a point or line that has the highest resolution/detail and the further out you go the more detail it loses/ unfocused it gets, similar to a camera/ transparent it turns (could be possible if you print on a transparent plastic foil or sheet)/ straight up reduces itself to line-art. This way there's also the possibility of working with the colour of the walls in the art gallery itself. To go back to the example above imagine a light blue wall that, except for the change in elevation, transition into the sky and sea blue.
Or another example from Heart of Darkness, at the entry to the colonial company with the two old women dressed in black. Imagine these two figures sitting in front of massive greek orders by the street at the bottom of the image, all in the lowest 20-30% of the picture and these orders going all the way up to the very top, except on the way they lose their outline and seamlessly integrate into the cloudy sky.
When it comes to the themes the answer is simple: death and decline. The ship is burning out, the hags sit there like the Fates with their yarn.
Alltogether you'd end up with something beatiful in the classic sense but also jaded and fading, a sarcastic revival of sorts, fitting for the end of modernity

>>18798955
>classic post-postmodern style
Yeah ok retard

>>18798369
>classicism
>19th-century academicism of medieval subject matter

>>18798819
>island
>Europe

>>18798764
>all culture of the past was committee engineered Pavlovian conditioning for the masses
yeah anon you're right it was totally like that, absolutely inorganic just like today

>>18798325
For that to happen you need to find someone to inspire and get inspired by irl

>>18799414
Yeah that was the duty of patrician advisers of the monarch to suggest him ways to control the population of filthy plebs with their propaganda so they don't lose their power.

Bump

>>18800248
Have sex

lets call it the "young guns" and we all wear cool sunglasses and leather jackets, also we primarily write westerns

>>18800274
No.

>>18800276
And we should rebel against overly self aware cringe culture by being naively cringe all the time.

It helps to look back at what spawned other types of movements in the past. From my plebian understanding, movements are born in response to a distaste of current prevailing ideas and aesthetics. This upheaval also takes place in a critical time when most humans are starting to fatigue from the current landscape and are seeking change. So what does that potentially look like for today? Sincerity tied into cringe. People are hiding behind so many layers of irony, the act of sincerity itself is innately cringe. It isn't necessarily a unique idea, but I find it to be desperately needed. I don't know, perhaps I'm wrong. I'm just a STEMfag who enjoys literature during free time.

>>18798618
Extremist minimalism? Artistic nullification? I like it.

>>18798270
I'm unironically working on it. I'll be sharing a treatise of it soon

>>18800333
>I'm just a STEMfag who enjoys literature during free time.
Just like the rest of /lit/, really.
>So what does that potentially look like for today? Sincerity tied into cringe.
That's what &amp Magazine is about. Despite the glitchy post-modern apperance, the texts included are honest about themselves and have to be taken seriously (most of the time).

Maybe &amp can show the path forward to "honestism".

>>18800449
&amp is our only immediate hope in this desert of stagnation. Lets latch on and do what we can, bros.

>>18800333
So the next stage is some kind of hyper optimistic embracing of cringe? Won't that inadvertently revert back to cynicism and irony? ''Be yo self'' has already become ''I'm doing this retarded thing but because I'm self aware about how it's retarded I'm fine right?''

I already coined the name for the next movement months ago. It's called transmodernism.

>>18798270
I believe that any such movement must be based on pulling off the curtain of irony that engulfs this world, and propagate full sincerity.

Let’s start the green text movement /lit based.

>>18800492
Sounds like metamodernism.
What’s the concept anon

>>18800490
You don't get it Anon, it's no longer about cynicism, or post-irony of my arse.

It's about understanding your own limits and still doing the best you can. The total antithesis to what our parents/teachers/TV channels/gutter papers say.

Shitposting is getting tiresome, let's take the moment to admit our failures.

>>18800534
The violent death of irony.

>>18800448
After how long you will share it?

>>18800524
What if our manifesto was a greentext itself?

>>18800524
This is actually is a really cool suggestion like combining sincerity and tell stories through greentext as a medium of expression.

Greentext is actually very different from traditional mode of story telling.

Why don't we just pick one we already like and then repackage it with cute anime girls so it gets traction?

>>18800589
>really cool
>sincerity
>medium of expression
>very different
>traditional mode
>story telling
Can you fuck off with this retarded language

>>18800571
Well, I am of two minds
1. Realize it when it's done
2. Realize it after I've lived it for a while, so it is authentic

>>18800601
What's wrong with it?

>>18800603
Is it a manifesto?

>>18800543
>It's about understanding your own limits and still doing the best you can
while at the same time not praising failure or giving out participation trophies, which is equally dishonest and insincere.

>>18800543
>The total antithesis to what our parents/teachers/TV channels/gutter papers say.
How's that?

>>18798955
That’s cool anon, but these ideas have already been explored. From Velazquez to the impressionist and Picasso, the concepts you are putting forward have been made just the execution changes.

>>18800620
"Manifesto" carries political connotations which I do not like. I prefer the word "treatise".

>>18800582
>The Greentext Manifesto

>>18800449
We do see sincerity creeping into the mainstream. Shows like The Office (been analyzed to death, but I digress) that contain a cast of normal looking people and showcase sincere relationships and human emotions are already here. However, these shows still have the issue of really only being a band-aid for postmodernism instead of a solution. The viewer isn't really challenged to change how they behave. Instead, it provides a dose of sincerity so that we may not fatigue from our cynical and irony filled routines. We need something that will shock people. Something so sincere that it hurts. This is hard for one person to push, since it puts that individual in an incredibly vulnerable position. However, I think a place like 4chan is, unironically, the best place to grow this movement. There is no one single face to critique, and there is no innate punishment for being sincere besides being called a faggot. Something like &amp is a good start.

>>18800640
Looking forward it mate. Can you tell me how you will share it?

>>18800661
Probably a post on /lit/ with a link to a pdf

>>18800589
>>18800582
>>18800644

Let’s make the movement.
We could start by gathering the best greentext we’ve read.

>>18800667
You can contact the editor of &amp for publishing it there so it can reach a wider audience.

>>18800658
People might go in the Plath direction of sincerity, is this what u mean anon?
What does sincerity mean to you?

>The Greentext Treatise

>Be me.
>Name's Anon.
>Denied ruler of the 21st century.
>Completely flat with the daily drone drum
>The pixels are fixed,
>The eye is cold, but it's over.
>I lift the fingers for which i'll be using.
>I'll move forward with my very own legs.
>I'll have to reach my thoughts.
>Speak for the heart, lose up the brain
>My dear fwends, it's about that damn time.

>>18800658
While thinking about this honesticity concept some things came to mind: I tried thinking of other recent media that has a semblance of the idea you presented of something so truth it hurts, and things like Fanfics, SCP, Homestuck and My Little Pony shit came to mind. They are all basically unfiltered let's say "truth" from the mind of edgy and confused teenagers and they are all amazing at making you cringe, I know the point is about being cringe on purpose while speaking truth but how would you go about avoiding this type of creation?

>>18800707
>I know the point is about being cringe on purpose while speaking truth but how would you go about avoiding this type of creation?
Getting good at your craft, so you're not that "cringe".

>>18800686
Now that you ask this I'm not quite sure what the direction should be. Perhaps the sincerity in which I am responding to you right now? Acknowledging that I do not have the answer and exposing myself as flawed and perhaps even ignorant. Maybe that is what I mean by sincerity.

>>18800716
I think there is more to unpack here though. Can you write something that is objectively good but also cringe? What about a compelling and well written FNAF fanfic that is inherently cringe because it's, well, a fucking FNAF fanfic?

THE GREENTEXT MANIFESTO
> no person narrative
> be invasive to the point of turning the reality inside out and placing the reader in your spot
> hypertextuality.htlm
> used to regard text as mere transliteration of the spoken, now a medium of its own
> a stroke in the void
> write without considering or expecting any audience at all while implying interactivity with the repliers

>>18800717
Can you go more in depth with individual vulnerability? Because I think this is the biggest threat to people these days.
Also how does this sincerity duffer from "real life" normal discourse?

>>18800716
>>18800729
I'm inclined to think you can't because it lacks universality, or a shared human experience that makes that thing meaningful, I think what this honesty needs is some kind of connective tissue so to say or something already established in the past to ground itself we can all agree on, because the trend nowadays is that there is no "ground" to any art and people are hyper individualistic in their artistic endeavors, hence super specific shit like FNAF fanfics

>>18800738
>>18800702
Based.
These are the rock solid foundations for the /lit/eral movement.

>>18800748
Who cares, the /lit/eral movement has to welcome people from all around the planet : it should be universal. Because in the end, we're all Anons.

>>18798270
the only way to cultivate culture is through earnesty
just be yourself bro

>>18800742
>Can you go more in depth with individual vulnerability? Because I think this is the biggest threat to people these days.
My personal view is that it's hard to push a movement or idea unless you are rich and powerful, or you die and somewhere along the line you get lucky and the rich and powerful pick up your idea. Since the arts aren't like STEM and are mostly emotive based, it's easy to criticize and tear down an individual who is expressing themselves and simply call it garbage. It's more difficult, imo, to do this when the work itself isn't an individual person, but rather an anonymous collective. However, the sacrifice is that you lose some of the relatability that comes with works made by someone you can put a face to.

>Also how does this sincerity duffer from "real life" normal discourse?
Take a simple conversation taking place between two people. One of dudes is talking about model trains, and the other guy couldn't give less of a shit. Standard social skills dictate that you pretend to care, and then perhaps try to switch to a different conversation topic or leave altogether. But to me this isn't truly sincere. The true "in your face" sincerity would be to state you aren't interested and either walk away or move right away to a different conversation piece. This may come off as being assholish, but I think a certain level of charisma can make it work.

Anyway, I have to go put on my fake social face for a family gathering, so I guess I don't practice what I preach.

>>18800658
>awkward penguin memes are sincere because they are relatable
>>18800707
>fanfiction is organic
yeah young people's creative instincts in the span of 5 years went from making their own shit to churning out mass market derivative content this is totally sincerity blossoming again in the hearts of people
do you also think that companies care about the environment because they say green bullshit in the ads?

how did I do?

>>18800876
Maybe you can argue about what honesty, sincerity and truth even means, we might just be disagreeing on definitions here.
I am not saying it is creative, or that it is good, the point is that the person who created is seemingly absolutely sincere about their creation, throwing all the things that they value and find "cool" into a mix without actively trying to make and invent artistic or political statements, allegories and symbolism. What also helps here is how Fanfic creators usually do not care about the public opinion of their work. The result of this is a piece of shit but it is honest nevertheless, what I was trying to get across is that maybe just being sincere is not enough.

>>18800950
>that maybe just being sincere is not enough.
It looks like the "Other" piece of puzzle is missing. You're right just sincerity isn't enough. But nonetheless I do think that fanfics will be consider an art movement in the future.

>>18800835
Thank you for elaborating

The only movement I could expect from here would be something akin to the dirty realism of the 70s in scope, except this time focused on the life of the incel, elder virgin, kissless loser, internet troll, chatroom fiend, basement dweller.

Since we're critiquing individualism in art we could do something akin to what we're already doing and make a group of people or community the art piece. Kekistan could be considered an art piece made by us, 4chan. We can also see this in things like the SCP foundation, a collective of people have all contributed to the lore of a fictional universe to create something no individual ever could.

>>18800612
sounds gay

>>18801025
if we could pull off the perennial multiplane hyperrealism, where coalesce the highs and lows of the elite and the plebs, all possible angles of modern experience, it'd make EVERYONE seethe.

>>18801106
Even better : we can write a book with multiple plots happening at the same time and overlapping themselves.

>>18801025
Won't work

>>18801025
>>18801106
>>18801121
>>18801132
I guess we're onto something.

...Anons in this thread have to understand that art is impossible without individualism. Even speaking from a purely psychological point of view, what is the motivation of making art? An artist's/writer's ego is so inflated, by nature, that they will never be able to participate in an anonymous, anti-individualistic collective. It will implode from within, it's a death sentence. For better or for worse, creative personalities want to create because it is their ego that longs to jump out and express itself.

>>18801025
>the life of the incel, elder virgin, kissless loser, internet troll, chatroom fiend, basement dweller.

Who the fuck wants to read about this? Why would I want to read about it, how is this interesting? Arguments, please. You only think it's interesting because it describes your life and you are self-obsessed and very interested in your life.

>>18800950
>the point is that the person who created is seemingly absolutely sincere about their creation
they are not, they are perfectly aware that they are specifically piggybacking on the popular thing and making derivative work because it gets them more attention.

This is an incredibly naive thread.

>>18801195
These kinds of stories can help people understand themselves and improve.

Extreme pessimism towards the hypermodern capitalist and individualist society and man

The consumer and the corporations as having viciously destroyed Good

Democracy as a failed experiment that has doomed man to either consume or be stuck in an unchangeable system

The irony of an anonymous imageboard being one of the only places that ideas and art can freely be discussed in a "tolerant and free" western society

>>18801201
Come on anon you cant tell me the guy who wrote the seven million words fanfiction of super smash bros is doing it for attention.

>>18801205
thats it, our movement with be New Naivette
characterised by primal rejoicing in things that were poisoned by irony, and returning after a long detour to the deep and plain one-dimensional pleasures of living.

>>18801205
So?

>>18801185
Don't worry, all of the 44 other fuckers in this thread are commited to remove their fingers out of their asses.

>>18801158
Y not, but minus >>18801025. That's just sad and depressing, nobody wants to read the story of an arrogant pity party. This Anon gets it : >>18801195.
But yeah, i'm in for a multi-level post-modern Pynchonesque story mixed with classicism about ancient civilizations. That could be great.

>>18801210
>These kinds of stories can help people understand themselves and improve.
Help who? The kissless loser and incel? They are are people who won't understand themselves and won't improve. This is the reason why the blackpill movement is composed of these people, they have psychological problems. They do not need art, they need therapy. You will be talking to a wall. Anyway, what you're describing is a self-help book. There are lots of self-help books out there.

>>18801233
>Don't worry, all of the 44 other fuckers in this thread are commited to remove their fingers out of their asses.
The fuck? What did you mean by this?

>>18801210
yeah, but only if they present a certain view of these said people; anons who want to read about these types rather want a romantisation of them to keep circlejerking the muh blackpill mindset and paint themselves heroic.

>>18801253
It's a vulgar French expression translated.
"Se sortir les doigts du cul" -> "get up and do something, anything"

BTW, we still haven't come up with a name for our movement?
What should it be named?

>>18801229
>characterised by primal rejoicing in things that were poisoned by irony, and returning after a long detour to the deep and plain one-dimensional pleasures of living.
downs_syndrome_happy.jpg

>>18801260
>It's a vulgar French expression translated. "Se sortir les doigts du cul" -> "get up and do something
I know what the fuck this means, Frenchie, I live in France. I was saying do you seriously believe the 44 people ITT will do something lol?

>>18801132
What if you established certain rules that prevent plots from overlapping? Like if the community is composed of short stories you could specify that you can't write things like world changing events. Certain multiplayer games work on this logic, you come and make your piece and then other people make theirs or interact with you. There's this one Minecraft server called 2b2t that's been up for years where people have been freely changing it for that whole time so it's turned into this bizarre sculpture.

>>18801205
Who’s to say that’s not an aesthetic choice?

>>18801273
It may not lead to anything in the beginning, but just having the discussion is a step in the right direction. If we keep having threads and get more input, we'll maybe eventually be able to actually create something. Of course, that's a big *maybe*, but I agree with OP in that it's worth a try.

not the anon you were responding to btw

>>18801229
>New Naivette
Nice name you've got here.
Adopted.

>>18801273
Can't speak for others but I already do Music. My creations have this very problem of individualism this thread is discussing, I'm not here to start learning how to write or create art from scrarch but at least find out how I can make something that belongs to a higher cohesive movement, idea, concept that others are also aiming at.

>>18801229
>>18801299
nova nativa

>>18801287
Good idea, we need to make sure that the "rules of the universe" aren't counter-productive.

And yeah, that "sculpture" isn't "bizarre", it's non-sensical and chaotic for its own sake. That's not what we're looking for.

>>18798270
Post-Sneedism. It's all about word play, but it goes beyond it.

>>18801313
Or maybe Nova Simplicitas

>>18801323
like this one. post-sneed new naivette
you recycle all the old genuine topics and tropes, but slather them in a webbing of intricate references, making a cringy but complex play

>>18801330
there you go.

>>18801319
>And yeah, that "sculpture" isn't "bizarre", it's non-sensical and chaotic for its own sake. That's not what we're looking for.
It's more just browsing a fucked up landscape that you know is the product of thousands of different people's contribution that I find cool. It's like a Minecraft apocalyptic wasteland.
>Good idea, we need to make sure that the "rules of the universe" aren't counter-productive.
What about this, you have a set of characters and a few key plot points, and the gimmick is that every single short story is an alternate possibility, and there are an infinite amount of ways the characters can act in relation to these key plot points. This sounds pretty bland, but you could do all sorts of scenarios. Like, say, a prison escape, a character needs to get out of prison and a guard will always be standing by a certain passageway at a certain time, there are certain tools that you could use to escape in certain places, you could even create a map of the prison that the writer needs to abide by. The novelty then comes from how many original ways you can write the protagonist escaping, and all the different ways you can develop him as a character in this scenario.

>>18801386
should make a fanfiction about Electric Retard, but never mention the fact that it's related to electric retard comics, just present the MrBrown mc as your average poltard

>>18801389
>The novelty then comes from how many original ways you can write the protagonist escaping, and all the different ways you can develop him as a character in this scenario.
Dang, that's pretty smart.
At first, I thought you were bringing up Cloud Atlas 2 : Electric Boogaloo, but that's neat.

The point is to make sure the stories aren't redundant in the way :
1) they are presented.
2) they are written.
Each scenario must have its own "atmosphere" and "logic" to itself.

Anyways, it always comes down to prose and how your thoughts are written down. But yeah, that could be a good beginning.

>>18801195
Some of my favourite books are about outsiders. The loser has a great literary tradition. That said, any book about an incel/loser/internet addict must have inciting incidents in some way, whether that be grand fantasies in his head or some bizarre journey that pulls him outside of the basement. I believe there's an interesting angle of approach for any story.

>>18798276
Postniggerism

>>18801394
>Electric Retard
Now here's a name i haven't heard in a long time...

>>18801430
I wholeheartedly believe that people on this site lack the sensitivity, the empathy and the understanding of the human psyche, human intellect, human emotions, human nature, needed to effectively write a loser, outsider character. This is also why I don't believe any kind of great literature can come out of here. This site is a fucking poisonous shithole, it's garbage. The absolute bottom of the barrel. Don't be hopeful.

>>18801550
>I wholeheartedly believe that people on this site lack the sensitivity, the empathy and the understanding of the human psyche, human intellect, human emotions, human nature, needed to effectively write a loser, outsider character. This is also why I don't believe any kind of great literature can come out of here.
And I call BS.
You'll be proved wrong Anon.

>>18801578
Delulu.

>>18801593
Don't care, post-sneed naivette will be the salvation that /lit/ needs.
Us Anons are tired of being lazy fucks. We're aiming onto something big and THIS will change... EVERYTHING.

To all the newcomers, pls post ideas ITT.

>>18801550
I have very little hope in life. But I do acknowledge that the tendrils of this website and the culture it represents spread far. For me it is not a great leap to expect a good piece of writing to represent the malaise of the person that hangs here. I do believe 4chan is at the centre of many things in this generation.

It needs to be based on something commonly agreed upon on this board

>>18801648
the word “sneed” makes me want to vomit

>>18801682
>It needs to be based
ftfy

>>18801682
The Ramifications Of /lit/'s Post-Sneed Naivette:

- do not mind the cringe, for it will help you on your way
- do not mind the honesty, for it's a way towards the heart
- do not mind the limits, for you have to understand them
- do not mind the killjoy seething buzzcocks, for they will bring you down no matter what happens.

Final note : express yourself.

bump

Better to iterate on calling it something to do with Naiveté instead of including an ironic reddit meme in the name

>>18801779
The Ramifications Of /lit/'s Naiveté :

- do not mind the cringe, for it will help you on your way
- do not mind the honesty, for it's a way towards the heart
- do not mind the limits, for you have to understand them
- do not mind the killjoy seething buzzcocks, for they will bring you down no matter what happens.

Final note : express yourself.

>>18801229
This unironically has potential

>>18801779
Naiveté is a good name, the "New" is unneeded. And yes, the ironic meme shit is exactly what should be avoided.

>>18801795
Better to rephrase all of these as positive assertions “do ___”

>>18801795
>>18801909

- be shameless
- be honest
- be understanding
- remain so in the face of detraction

>>18801678
>But I do acknowledge that the tendrils of this website and the culture it represents spread far.
???????????

>>18801678
>I do believe 4chan is at the centre of many things in this generation.
There's like maximum 300 people posting in a thread on this site what the fuck are you on about?

>>18800738
>>18801988
>- be shameless
>- be honest
>- be understanding
>- remain so in the face of detraction

>>18798270
We're in pyschedellic romanticism already, no point.

>he doesn't know

>>18798270
Traditional futurism

>>18803175
Yes. And I have become reborn. I reject this existence, and have created my own. I am freed from the shackles of crippling, terminal irony, and the all-too-aware children who were forced, without consent, to be born and to grow up in a world where to not know was to not truly live. My bliss will usher in shockwaves to the established world order, rich only in pessimism and hopelessness. My joy knows no hardship, no pain; I know only the bright future awaiting me, and anyone who chooses to follow.

>>18798280
>this board thinks it started dark academia

no

>>18801988
based

>>18803255
We started darkie academia

The Gnosis of Ganymede

Long ago there was a village in a forest at the foot of a mountain. It was said that a dragon lived in a cave at the mountain's peak. No one knew for sure whether stories of the dragon were based in truth, or were invented to scare children. In the village lived a beautiful girl who was carefree and curious. She went into the woods one day and never returned.
Everyone in the village became afraid. Perhaps the dragon was real after all. No one dared to look for her, except for a single pure young man. He packed for his journey and set off into the woods. At the foot of the mountain was an alchemist's hut.
"Young man, where are you traveling?" the alchemist addressed the boy from his door. "I am going up to search for a girl who has gone missing from the village. I do not know if the dragon from the stories is real, but people in the village are afraid that she was taken by it. If it happens that she was, I intend to kill that beast." said the boy.
"Ho ho," said the alchemist, "the dragon is real, child, and you will need my help if you are to slay the dreadful thing. Come inside!" So the boy went in. The alchemist produced a bottle from his cupboard and poured a thick red potion into a cup. "This potion will give you secret knowledge you will need to defeat the beast." the alchemist handed the would-be-warrior the cup. The young man took it and drank.
The world became dark and the boy was outside of himself. Things lacked form until they coalesced, and the young warrior found himself lying naked in darkness on what felt like cold stone. In a moment the dragon was inside him. Reality is not real! He went out of his mind until he found himself cogent again on the alchemists couch. "Did you find the knowledge you need?" asked the alchemist.
Feeling made unmanly, the boy became incensed and filled with a passionate rage that burned in his heart and in his loins. He stormed up the mountain and found the cave and the dragon. He raised his sword and easily cleaved the dragon's head off.
There in the back of the cave was his prize. He set the head of the dragon before her, but the girl wept because no man can hope to pleasure me like that dragon had

>>18801988
But most of all.
Be kind.

I have found this kino post about an anon's mentally challenged fren. This is a good example of Naiveté.

His words will be our slogan:

***i wanna sit with my boyyyyysssss***

>>18804312
Here the same anon is defending the Naiveté and telling us why it is so important to protect it on the face of cynicism.

>>18801988
sounds cucked. is this really how you want to be?

>>18804433
Shamelessness taken to its logical extreme ends in nudity and Dionysian dissolution of the individual.
The slave-cults enforce shame and attempt to control love.
Innocent shamelessness is powerfully naive.

So have we settled on something yet?

>>18804984
Burgerpunk
Greentext
Post-Sneed
Naiveté

Looks like most anons are interested in Naïveté. But other options have potential as well especially greentext.

>>18804995
What's Naiveté
Isn't it already a thing

>>18804942
shamelessness stops being innocent when you're well aware of what you're doing.

Why not an art movement that pretends modernism and post-modernism never existed and instead pretends many other non-destructive movements happened. It will be a meta-movement that alludes to those imagined previous movements. Making it possible to go full schizo.

>>18805001
Yes it is a thing already.

>>18805001
Read the latter half of the thread bro

international ultranationalist postromanticism

Where the fuck is Frater when we need him?

>>18805278
forgot to add: imageboard-based. discord or twitter or reddit users will be identified and lynched at our annual meet up.

>>18803523
HOLY fucking based. this needs to be written like a novela, perhaps painting the man as a crackhead schizo (tribute to Dennis Cooper) who sees the rural ghetto like a fairy village, drug rape by an outskirt meth lab owner and missing women make a perfect double bottom for this

>>18805113
>art movement that pretends modernism and post-modernism
19 century novel?
Do we get rid of Flaubert as well? Because he gets us up to Joyce, and you know the rest of the history.

fyi this thread was started by a 40 y.o. canadian rapist who wants to piggyback on zoomer creativity

>>18805481
he can piggyback on zoomer cunny, they have an atrocious taste in men anyway

>>18805022
Choosing shamelessly to advance the good is innocent.

I call writing the manifesto, I've read the Vorticist one and can base ours off its grandiose and contradictory statements.
https://library.brown.edu/pdfs/1143209523824858.pdf

For too long people have indulged in stupidity ironically, but in truth to indulge in stupidity ironically is ironically to indulge in stupidity unironically. One instead must learn to indulge in stupidity unironically which actually makes it not stupidity if that makes sense. So go write. Write something no matter how stupid it is, and if it is stupid, write something stupid unironically.

>>18805539
>So go write. Write something no matter how stupid it is, and if it is stupid, write something stupid unironically.
>t. Gardner
>t. Mike Ma
These two bastards fit perfectly the definiton you gave. I guess they are the unaware posterchildren of Naiveté.

>>18805527
Saved. We need to write our own treaty/manifesto.
Maybe we could resort to the &amp editors. They could help us.

>he needs a manifesto in order to be creative
ngmi

>>18805641
>he doesn't understand that we need a manifesto to pinpoint the logics and philosophy of Naiveté
>he wants to demoralize us all
>phoneposter too
ngmi

So what is the symbol of Naiveté? The young, blonde, European village girl who has grown up untouched by the filth and regressed morals of the City, enjoying a simple and artistic life in the countryside? The working man and his simple way of life, unburdened by the stream of irrelevant information that flows from the internet? I do not at all equate naivety with stupidity, might I add.

>>18805744
>I do not at all equate naivety with stupidity, might I add.
Except the "symbols" you've just described are not only naive but also stupid

>>18805749
They were only suggestions, no need to be rude. Why do you think they are stupid?

>>18805744
>So what is the symbol of Naiveté?
A cute loli

>>18805744
Both of them

>>18805641
You cannot be creative without a manifesto. That is a fact.

Can someone explain New Sincerity to me. I’m sure it’s a similar idea to what’s forming in this thread but I might be wrong

>>18798564
>You read the book on your book reading app and as you get to a certain point it says a character sends another a message on (your IM of choice) and you get the message IRL on your device for "immersion".
What the fuck, that’s real?

>>18805744
I suppose stupidity is to not know what you need to know and naivety is to not know what you don’t need to do.

>>18800644
I was here, moment of history, beginning of something bigger, autism in Greentext, literature made by anons for anons

>>18800738
we do it already, for me chans are all about it

>>18805744
>So what is the symbol of Naiveté?
>>18804312
>i wanna sit with my boyyyyysssss

I haven’t only seen this idea here. I’ve seen it repeated on other places and sites. I think the collective conscious of the internet is slowly turning to this idea. At the very least I hope things are moving in this direction

>>18798270
This is it lads

>>18805744
a relentlessly deranged man - be it a joyful buddalike downie, signature-phrase retard, spaghetti-spilling autist, OCDist scrubbed raw, a mouthy schizophrenic or a criminally insane psychopath.
unfiltered manifestation of guiltless insanity is the most sincere naivette possible today.

>>18798631
i agree, underappreciated post

Apocalyptic nihilism has been essentially mainstream for a while now. It's channelling the knowledge that we commonly have that things are getting worse and that the next decade or so is going to be as (or more) chaotic as the last few years. Novelty is in hope, & vice vees.

“Cringe” is often defined as based on a failure to impress others while art on the other hand should be made for the author to impress themselves before anyone else. Portraits of their soul. A projection of their mind and spirit into word which people can enjoy or not enjoy. One who is willing to make “cringe” art just because they like to make it instead however is one who doesn’t care about impressing others as they make what they enjoy, but what others might consider “cringe”.

>>18805527
>>18805622
Alright, I don't know if this is enough to constitute a manifesto, but I hope it serves at least as a fitting incipit:
>Cringe!
>Yes, cringe the term, the idea, from it cringe and recoil! To cringe, no! Cringe from cringe!
>With heated knife amygdala cut, the fear sliced from wet grey flesh
>We hold these truths, we flow forth the blood of our ambition, beating in a heart untainted by the black bile of cynical decay
>Let hear it be said, what is to be cringed from, cast aside as new life springs forth from rotted flesh:
>Cringe! – the term itself, the zooming hunch-headed hordes, shying from the soul that shrieks its truest thought
>Cringe! – the one who cuts not the fear, the doubt, the self-consciousness burdening with superegoic weight, but the font of self that the masses seek to overturn in their scrabbling, sedated fury
>Cringe! – the society, the mass of mortal hylic heathens who abhor the freedom of the soul we seek
>We, the cringy, the cringing, the cringeless, we declare now! Today! Our hour is upon us! The innocent, the seeking, the hopeful and helpless, we bear our breasts and cut our hearts to tell:
>We are the naïve, and we will not be silenced!

>>18801106
>Kekistan could be considered an art piece made by us, 4chan. We can also see this in things like the SCP foundation.
oh nonono, moment we step out of 4chan and start to gather everything in one place we gonna lose it. Our shitpost and greentexts are just here for one moment in time and that's the beauty of it.
>scp foundation
we lost it there, cause we made it inclusive, for everyone. We need gatekeeping of 4chan's anons

This thread is reaching levels of cringe never thought possible.
It's clear you're all just insecure fags who couldn't handle someone critiquing your dumb shit.
Naivety is not a good thing. Honesty is. Nobody wants to read a retard who doesn't know how the world works.

anons, please, can we have general thread for The Greentext Manifesto and Naiveté? I think i need it more than anything else, something new on /lit/ , I beg you

>>18805951
but we do have fun

>>18805965
Say something naive to me. Let's see how fun it is.

Alright guys I'm a genius give me a few minutes and I4ll get back to you, I'm watching japanese do retarded shit

>>18805984
anon I... i dunno ok? I'm having fun, but you don't have to feel it.

>>18805920
Does anyone like this? I tried to do an effortpost here and not care how cringily verbose I write, disregarding cringe being the whole point and all

>>18801106
Once we realize that this very thread and others like it is the art from which the greater movement shall continue to derive, the rest should be easy.

>>18805844
Things certainly do seem to be heading in that direction.

>>18806033
that thread made something already, I hope so. It showed the directions for anons

>>18805989
Alright, I'm back.

Here's an idea: You don't represent one thing, but a bundle of things, and through these you move from a mindstate to another, leading to surrealist sources of feelings. Are you pumped?

I'll come back with another in a few mins

>>18806070
I'm back. Here's another movement: A western Come back to spirituality through the despair of 1900+, leading to a resurgence of holy figures, modern biblical tales, stories with angels, or in sacred places. They are made with (not piety) but angst of not knowing if it is true, and despairing for it to exist.

Now I'll come back soon with another

>>18805281
My literary interests aren’t really appealing to the broader group here, as my tastes are basically decadent/symbolist/aestheticism lit, Elizabethan lit, ancients and mystics of all things along with various Asian stuff. I would assume the average person here is more into dirty realism or stuff like cormac, to me the core of good writing is imitation not innovation and that is also the impetus for most historical movements of value, some element in older lit being accentuated. I don’t really think the average /lit/ user reads enough to even be able to pull these odd flavor out. Example if we look at Melville, he’s primarily aping Shakespeare, Milton and Homer. I think such combinations are the key to any good lit, the major problem of contemporary literature being how abundantly clear that the writers don’t read, they don’t read the classics. The majority of poets don’t read poetry, the majority of novelists don’t read anything prior to the 60s

How can you possibly make kino when there’s no foundation ?

>>18806091
>How can you possibly make kino when there’s no foundation ?
pure instinct and hope that my posts makes some anons laugh or feel

>>18805783
you're more creative without it bud

>>18805783
Manifesto here is only for showing directions and to encourage anons to write shitpost

>>18806091
But can you give us general directions with respect to contemporary times? You have a solid background in classics and have a better understanding of contemporary scene too so where do you think that space for an art movement exist?

What do you think about Naiveté?

>>18798293
You can’t really do transgression these days since you have society divided into one which is absolutely sexual and atheistic and the other which has unified religious and racial sentiment and plenty of people who basically partake of both.

If you wanted to make an actually transgressive art piece it would have to work by induction of cringe, by that I mean you would have to write Chris Chan tier characters and situations. Things which cannot be considered cool in any way, think of a man sperging about anime at the thanksgiving table to his family for 2 hours, that’s the only type of transgression that’s left because it can’t be absorbed into an aesthetic considered cool.

>>18798325
Having an art movement won’t solve your depression nor will art actually do so, handle your problems head on, the depression common here is due both to the life’s and personalities of those who come here as well as the structure of society and technology, there is no easy fix for everyone here other than diving hardcore into religion.

>>18798564
Disgusting and you know it.
>>18800333
Again you’re missing that movement stem from art itself, it’s more common that a bunch of art will be produced drawing from some inspiration and this will retroactively be labeled as part of a movement and then this will continue to output similar pieces.

>>18800506
I fully believe concerns about irony and sincerity are basically the same post modern garbage. Fiction shouldn’t have to worry about being sincere or ironic, it can just be coldly aesthetical.

>>18806136
>it can just be coldly aesthetical.
Any examples?

>>18806136
>it’s more common that a bunch of art will be produced drawing from some inspiration
You're completely right. Finding a common thread of inspiration is hard. It feels like most styles have been exhausted.

>>18800543
Most common popular media is over sentimentality which tries to force appeal by feeling sincere.

>>18801025
This is the most accurate post and dirty realism is disgusting.
>>18801195
It’s not that it’s good, it’s that it’s the most logical thing this board could produce with its wide range of interests, it’s the only common factor and it would be the easiest, this also wouldn’t be groundbreaking as the current contemporary literary trend is auto fiction, basically auto-biography but fictional. So it would just be like generic lesbian or Nigerian “my life is so bad” books we see so commonly today, just written for a different crowd.

>>18801211
This already exists and has centuries. >>18801550
All they would need is rhetorical skill and most people into that type of lit would be swayed.

>>18804995
Burgerpunk is just dirty realism with a new name, the naivete is just the same neo-sincerity autism which is nothing but a product of the irony obsession, both of which have been explored and are common today.

>>18805951
I think both being naive and seeking accuracy to a generic mundane world shows the lack of creative force, you can write about literally anything why be obsessed with mundane accuracy and not poetic beauty, why care about irony or sincerity and not Beauty?

>>18806101
As explained above, without books and art to produce an impetus you don’t have real art movements, which leaves the only thing you lads share, which is a modified dirty realism or a cringe based transgressiveism. Neither of which, I imagine, any of you really desire to produce.

>>18806165
Flaubert, huysmans, Aloysius Bertrand, Baudelaire, mallarme, Verlaine, Alexander pope, dryden, Ovid, Gilchrist, Ernest Dawson, Spenser, li-he, Li shangyin, the Chuci, the epics, and on and on and on, most art wasn’t concerned with sincerity or irony but cold aesthetic ability.

The primary divide of writing according to Remy du gourmont is the sentimentalist style which seeks common sympathy and emotional appeal to function, which if you do not share these sympathies, you will not enjoy it, an extreme example of this is the poetry of Rupi which only works for the contemporary Instagram obsessed woman.

The other type of art is the cold aesthetical art which seeks to (in the words of Walter pater) objectify an interior vision, which works by selecting an ideal and harmonizing the sense forms to clothe the ideal, to the point where the sensual objects selected and ideas are entirely fused into one and by consuming the piece you consume the idea, thus you can be led to any emotional state or contemplation the artist desires. This is why a host of Christians grew sympathy for Satan through paradise lost, this is why atheists can enjoy Dante.

Cold aesthetical art is what most great art and writers have done, google Dionysian imitatio, the historical method of getting good was never relying upon just inspiration or natural talent, but studying the greats like textbooks and combining them in novel and fascinating ways.

Guys, i'm starting to think we need some kind of permanent /general/ thread about defining the core principles of Naiveté.

>>18806226
That's kino, thanks man.

>>18806253
I dunno that is part of what killed /hyperlit/ as an idea anon. In fact using /hyperlit/ material from tge archives might not be a bad idea if any of you are actually serious about this.

I will portray the mid-era of the movement.
>these early-era midwits are taking after the Greeks too much
>you must have read the Greeks or you're a newfag
>one anon writes 176 pages about God and Hegel shitting in adjacent stalls while discussing wether the human mind ought to have a fence or wall around it
>another anon writes an esoteric criticism of religion through an anti-hero who starts to perceive every human being as the voice of God after he pulled down a card stand on a livestream
>alter punctuation by adding symbols for sarcasm and smugness
>actively use greentext in prose
>always finish your essay or criticism on a subject with TL;DR

>>18806226
Nice effortpost, i dig this "cold aesthetical" approach.
Maybe we could take some inspiration from that.
>>18806253
this.

>>18806181
For what it’s worth I don’t believe exhausted is a real thing here, if you could ape perfectly say, the poetry of Horace and the prose style of de Quincey and Walter Scott but you modernized it so that the average contemporary person could read and enjoy it, how would that not be worthy of praise? How would that not produce a work people will consider good? The actual concern people should have, I think, is producing good works and we can only know good works from what has historically worked, the classics are held so high because they have power rhetorically and aesthetically over people, if you took their methods and made them work in the current time, they would be just as powerful. No real innovation in that, just proper imitation.

posting in historic thread

>>18806311
I fear you may forget this thread in matter of days anon
If any of you are serious, watch this
https://youtu.be/egocM2jzLPs

>>18806291
>using /hyperlit/ material from [the] archives might not be a bad idea if any of you are actually serious about this.
Yeah, i'm dead on it.

>>18806309
Read the symbolist manifesto and some of the works of Walter pater on art or the poetry of Swinburne. These two are both examples of cold aesthetical art. Here is an excerpt from pater describing the Mona Lisa.

>She is older than the rocks among which she sits; like the vampire, she has been dead many times, and learned the secrets of the grave; and has been a diver in deep seas, and keeps their fallen day about her; and trafficked for strange webs with Eastern merchants; and, as Leda, was the mother of Helen of Troy, and, as Saint Anne, the mother of Mary; and all this has been to her but as the sound of lyres and flutes, and lives only in the delicacy with which it has moulded the changing lineaments, and tinged the eyelids and the hands.

Here is an excerpt from a poem of Swinburne.

“ Here, where the world is quiet;
Here, where all trouble seems
Dead winds' and spent waves' riot
In doubtful dreams of dreams;
I watch the green field growing
For reaping folk and sowing,
For harvest-time and mowing,
A sleepy world of streams.

I am tired of tears and laughter,
And men that laugh and weep;
Of what may come hereafter
For men that sow to reap:
I am weary of days and hours,
Blown buds of barren flowers,
Desires and dreams and powers
And everything but sleep.

Here life has death for neighbour,
And far from eye or ear
Wan waves and wet winds labour,
Weak ships and spirits steer;
They drive adrift, and whither
They wot not who make thither;
But no such winds blow hither,
And no such things grow here.

No growth of moor or coppice,
No heather-flower or vine,
But bloomless buds of poppies,
Green grapes of Proserpine,
Pale beds of blowing rushes
Where no leaf blooms or blushes
Save this whereout she crushes
For dead men deadly wine. ”

>>18805920
>>18806010
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA SOMEONE PLEASE RESPOND

>>18806335
>they wot not who make thither
Unironically, they wot?

>>18806343
>>18806010
>Does anyone like this?
No

>>18806352
Wot=witt in a third person form, so “they know not who make thither” would be an easier way of saying it.

>>18806291
>>18806329
Wasn't /hyperlit/ inspired by CCRU and Nick Land "theory-fiction" aesthetics?

>>18806362
Yeah but realistically more stuff like serial experiments lain if they’re being honest.

What is the conclusion of this thread bros?

I already count this everyday lit shitpost here as an art. You guys just think about it too much, just do what you were already doing, that is shitposting and greentexting. You will see yourselves as participants in socalled movement in the future, when in art history our work will be count as art called A BIG KEK or something like that. Futurists were just having fun like we are having fun right now and look ow they are remembered

>>18806379
>>18806381
this

>>18806381
I don't mean to be remembered. I just do it for the lulz.

>>18806381
>look ow they are remembered
Like fascists?

>>18806362
It was. But this time around, this cringe "digital-Evola-chud/cyber-commie-fag" bullshit will be scrapped out.

After reading (almost) all the posts in this thread, I can conclude that the point of /lit/'s Naiveté is to write heavily personal post-modern "cringe" works that could happen (or not) within the same shared universe. But instead of bitterness, grimdark bullshit and needlessly complex ideals, the writing evokes feelings of sincerity, simplicity and a return to a peaceful and positive lifestyle, that has nothing to do with mainstream trends whatsoever.

>>18806371
I haven't seen the show, what do you mean by this.
>>18806436
>this cringe "digital-Evola-chud/cyber-commie-fag" bullshit will be scrapped out.
I see why you'd want those types out, but I think the bar should honestly be "whoever effortposts is in"

>>18806450
Watch a couple videos, it’s the cyber gnostic glitchy, everything is melting I’m going insane aesthetic they all strive for but anime, now it is a good anime, but it’s clear a lot of these dudes are aping it and it’s clear from other chans it’s the primary influence. Which is fine, the CCRU/nick land material (I’ve read it) isn’t that good. I guess spinal catastrophism was kinda funny.

>>18806465
>I guess spinal catastrophism was kinda funny.
Was he aping Zapffe and Ligotti?

>>18806471
Ehhh kinda but mostly going for a land ape, by this I mean, he’s taking philosophy (dudes like kant) and fiction from history along with debunked science and trying to create a narrative that the spine is a world ending parasite which stems to become the ultimate life form and end the material world to birth itself as a god.

Again if you read it understanding it’s all tongue in cheek it’s kinda cute, not really something I consider good literature. But a fun shitpost.

>>18806328
Good video, thank you anon.

>>18798270
Ok but can anyone in this thread paint or compose or perform? Or is it merely aspiring writers looking to write about and become the moral judges of art?

>>18806480
I mean it reminds me of this passage, like comparing consciousness with deer horns:

>The tragedy of a species becoming unfit for life by overevolving one ability is not confined to humankind. Thus it is thought, for instance, that certain deer in paleontological times succumbed as they acquired overly-heavy horns. The mutations must be considered blind, they work, are thrown forth, without any contact of interest with their environment.

>In depressive states, the mind may be seen in the image of such an antler, in all its fantastic splendour pinning its bearer to the ground.

>>18805853
This never stops hurting my eyes. If only we could send this pic to the founding fathers.

>>18806450
>I see why you'd want those types out, but I think the bar should honestly be "whoever effortposts is in"
The precise artistic direction of any proposed movement ought to be a secondary concern; indeed I believe if it were to be successful it would merely be facilitating the continuance of what's already at play.

>>18806492
No need to worry about that.

>>18806492
Tv, movies and YouTube and video games have largely taken the place of all of these arts, including painting and writing, the only thing which still has currency is musical composition and those who seek to compose are cornered off in the same way Rautavaara was, sure he produced great music, sure he was contemporary, doesn’t mean he’ll have any popular influence (which is fine ultimately I don’t think popular appeal is inherently good nor bad.)

The only music which will grow in popularity is popular appealing and those oddball repetitive miniature genres the likes of which we shilled on /mu/ all day, and the moment they become popular they’ll just be absorbed into the pop method of formulaic production.

So if you want to really be 100% on this, the current artists people care about aren’t your writers nor your painters nor your composers nor your actors unless they’re acting in a movie, show or cartoon.

>>18806520
>AAAAAA IS THAT A MCDONALDSSSSSSSSSS IM GONNAAAA DIEEEEEEE

>>18806393
how many artists were remembered just because they were doing it for the lulz?
>Dali
>Barth
>Pynchon
>Wallace
>Joyce
for us they are geniuses, but back then it was just prehistoric shitpost
I'm gonna shitpost and in mere future anon is gonna be remembered as idiots, but artzie ones

>>18806540
Dali studied the greats and spend years developing his harsh methodology of paranoiac-critical, he wasn’t just playing around.

Joyce wasn’t playing around either he spent all day reading and aping and experimenting and refining and clearly wanted to make respectable art which would change the scene, read any biography, or hell just read about him meeting with yeats.

I do not know enough about barth, pynchon nor Wallace to comment but I suspect they also cared very much.

>>18806540
those writers you mentioned labored over their individual works for years, spending ages in and out of libraries, researching, plotting, sketching, writing out, typing, editing, revising ad nauseam. they certainly weren't 'shitposting'

>>18798631
>Friends
We seek community, not friends.
>Happiness
We seek responsibility and duty, not happiness
>belonging
We seek means to an end for our community, not products

We should be creating art in which there is a community fighting against the system to live their own way.

>>18806551
>>18806552
I didn't know that. In that case we are doing something else

>>18806533
Its not the mac or any other chain, its that they are all together centralized in a coonsoooom hub that is only reachable by car. There is nothing more evil and disgusting in urban planning.

>>18806528
Whatever the medium for art, someone has to create it. If everyone in this thread is merely a critic and wishes to place himself as the arbiter of this new art movement, then it isn't an art movement.

>>18806540
If you shitpost for posterity, your shitposting is insincere and you ought to unironically kys.

>>18806600
And I’m saying without the context of the greats and without a foundation in art already produced the work will be generic garbage no matter what. If everyone here was writers and they all seriously studied the classics and made a dedicated effort at modernizing their styles I think this wouldn’t even be a question, a movement question. Them being writers isn’t the problem, people here not wanting to put in the effort of a lot of reading, imitation and dedication to their taste is the problem imo.

>>18806573
I can already imagine a commune of close to a hundred people trying to produce their own necessities, trying to live without commercials, and coomsoom products.

Being attacked by corpos who move in, try to buy their plots of land, fly airplanes with ads, open up malls close to them to break their spirit. Would read

>>18806622
I wouldn't even know what would constitute as the contemporary greats tbqfh

I was there when /lit/ actually sat down and brainstormed some ideas together, looking at the same direction.
Proud of you anons!

>>18806630
You should read Brave New World

Neoposttranshypermodernism

>>18806622
This, you need a few reference artists from which you draw the initial inspiration, style and feel from which you can pivot in the right direction. You can't just start with a few ideas.

>>18806635
>moby dick commentary
>&amp
>coronameron
>le demiurge memes

>>18806632
Most of the large contemporary dudes are ephemeral and won’t be remembered. Whether we like their styles or not the current big dudes are cormac, John Banville, Ashberry and Dimitris Lyacos, and while these are not the top of “literary fiction “ sales, they are the ones who have influence and are most likely to be marked as classics and will continue to be read, not vanishing as ephemera like much of what’s paraded as good today.

>>18806632
I'm afraid you won't like the answer. Think Foucault and Derrida, or Chomsky

>>18806670
That’s too much philosophy when we’re discussing broadly fiction and i imagine poetry. And even then, these aren’t the most contemporary names.

>>18806665
You forgot about Ligotti

>>18806681
True ligotti also.

>>18806622
>people here not wanting to put in the effort of a lot of reading, imitation and dedication to their taste is the problem
This is a universal problem, not restricted to 4chan or anons in this thread.
I bring up my point only because everyone is concerned with:
1. What is art and what isn't art.
2. Lamenting the current state of art.
3. Reap the benefits AFTER this imaginary movement has succeeded.
and not the primary requirement: producing art. Studying the masters of their craft is a distant requirement. Just being able to create, let's say, a decent painting of a basket of fruits, or being able to create a well-edited entertaining video for youtube, is a more pressing requirement.

>>18806665
>>18806670
Both wrong. At first it will be brave women, trannies and congolese immigrants writing about muh struggles. Then the EU collapses under muslim immigration, which erases 2000 years of literature. Meanwhile the US becomes a beacon of neo-marxist tolerance. If you read anything pre2012 you're a facist.

>>18806681
And stretching my mind, John Crowley will also probably be remembered.

>>18806695
I agree of course, that actually knowing how to produce your art is key, but I believe the technical practice of writing and the studying of the greats are largely one and the same if the question is literature, because all books become a textbook of how to write if analyzed with the eye of the writer, then comes the work of repetition and trying to write prose and verse over and over and over in the same aped style to gain the quality.

But fundamentally I agree, the question is producing art and drawing from what’s already good, the problem is /lit/ as a group is too wide to specialize in a specific flavor or set of authors or artists in general, and how many people willing to study and ape and refine technical ability here are there really?

>>18806700
epic post sir

>>18806700
Absolutely based and redpilled. I'm 100% sure that Trump will also be re-instated by the end of this year! #MAGA #Trump #TrustThePlan #Storm #PenceCard #LiberalsAreSnowflakes #ProudGunOwner

>>18806492
I draw but I'm not just gonna tailor what I do to appeal to some kind of abstract idea of an art movement. This Naiveté idea is all well and good but with no actual art for people to be inspired to imitate an art movement means jack shit.

>>18806719
>how many people willing to study and ape and refine technical ability here are there really?
An artfag poet by the name of Frater Asemlen on /lit/ is a good example of f this.

>>18806733
Done. Now get to work.

>>18806742
Wasn't the entire point of this art movement to capture a feeling of the sublime and remind ourselves of how insignificant we are and finding peace in that knowledge? That doesn't seem at all related to Naiveté.

Looks like we hit the bump limit, gents. See you in the next one. This was fun.

>>18806733
Don't worry, bucko.
I would say Naiveté is inspired by abstract, psychedelic and philosophical post-WW2 writers/filmmakers/plasticians/musicians, but also by classic pre-19th century aesthetics.

Basically if a Naiveté musician had to release an album, it would sound like this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLYt9phl5M8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm4YcJQXIV8
It's abstract, edgy, bizarre, schizo and unexpected at times, but on the other hand its core basis remains simple, straight-forward, honest and is an emotional outlet like no other.

>>18806695
>Studying the masters of their craft is a distant requirement.
I could not disagree more strongly. Just creating and hoping you will get to a point in which you can actually execute what you want, is extremely naive. Starting from reinventing the wheel is not gonna work. Studying the masters doesnt have to take more than 3 years.