/lit/ - Literature

fuck society desu

>>18814117
Shaftesbury, who BTFOs the social contract model. The efficacy of a contract depends on the virtue of the parties to honour and perform the contract, yet the contract itself can't provide that virtue. Without an underlying virtue of the parties to honour the contract the contract can just be broken at will. The contract itself can not effect a clause that it not be broken because if the contract is broken then none of the clauses have any effect. The true social foundation is the internal virtues and dispositions of the parties, not a contract.

>>18814117
Fichte also.

The idea of 'being part of society' is questionable enough even if you are an aristocrat in an ethnostate with generations of unified history, but it's flat-out retarded as a young white guy in present day America. If you don't understand this you have low functioning autism and don't go outside.

>>18814494
>you have low functioning autism and don't go outside.

Projection?

>>18814552
Good question, the answer is no.

>>18814117
How is this one still alive? How is he even giving moral lessons? How does he gather 70k likes? Is it just glowniggers upthumbing each other?

>>18814117

>>18814117
> It is a routine public health requirement in a civilized society
Alright, but are we really still in a "civilized society". That implies somewhat that the aim of the government is at least in part to raise a civilized citizenry, capable of making responsible choices in its own, and that similarly the aim of the citizenry is to participate in a civilized government, creating one that is capable of making virtuous and efficient choices.
I'm not going all "schizo x-tier modern society is murder" here either, but at some point, you shouldn't either blame folks for starting to adhere to the most ridiculous conspiracy theories (of which, lets be entirely honest, this isn't at all the most ridiculous one either, governments *have* tried to poison their population through more ridiculous means) either when they have lived their entire lives devoid of any indication that their government was actually good and run by good people.

>>18814781
the government has openly stated that they are okay with lying to us, there shouldn't even need to be a debate here

>>18814781
A glance at the leaked contracts with pharmaceuticals, coupled with the government suppression of (cheaper and safer) treatments available for a year, and the totalitarian measures that might perhaps have been justified were we faced with the Black Plague, should be enough to know what they think of the cattle they govern, regardless of technical aspects of the vaccines (that are also questionnable but that isn't my point).

/lit/ always has the best and most incendiary takes. why is /lit/ the best version of every board on 4chan?

>>18814861
>why is /lit/ the best version of every board on 4chan?
because of butters

>>18814849
>>18814793
I've been saying for years, mostly ironically, to my friends that the function of modern States is to administer the commission of crimes against its own or other populations... But at this point I'm actually starting to believe it.

>tfw in line to get "the jab"

>>18814923
my fb page is filled with pictures of normies with the onions face showing off their arm after getting vaxxed or after getting their booster shot. these people creep me the fuck out. covid has exposed normies beyond all doubt for the worthless faggot retards that they really are. only good thing to come out of this pandemic.

>>18814923
No need for wojack.
Look at people not hesitating, not even flinching, lining up for the holy injection, the closest thing to a baptism most of them will ever know, as someone dies from it in front of them.
It's probable the man in question was just as content. "Thanks to my sacrifice, some obese 85 yo geriatric might drag his miserable life for three more months compared to dying of covid, and we'll be spared another variant". He dies with a peaceful mind, contrasting his convulsions.
The next day the authoritative experts in expertise admit on the mass media that the jab had a minute effect on transmission, and that "vaxxmaxxing" this type of virus increased the rate of mutations. The dead man had heard about this three months before on the internet. Ashamed as he was, he doubted for a split second. In his confusion a helping hand appeared. The factchecking was prompt, decisive. Verdict: conspiracy theory.

>>18815049
The guy walking up to get in line right afterwards is great.

The other guy is right, we don’t live in a civilized society, we live in a Society™ instead.

>>18814117
all adult vaccines are choices regarding whether you think it is worth it for you. you can get a yellow fever vaccine but you don't unless you are going to be at risk of yellow fever.
there is no such thing as a public health requirement.

>>18814117
I'm not required to keep myself alive nevermind anyone else, fuck off retard.

We don't live in a society.

>>18814117
Bill "Saddam has WMD" Kristol
Bill "They hate us for our freedoms" Kristol
Bill "The white working class needs to die" Kristol
Bill "Vaccination is not a personal decision" Kristol

>>18814594
liberals have no clue what he is all about.
fucking kike bastard he is, love dead arab children and hate europe.

>>18814494
pretty much

>>18815147
>>18815151
Hope you don't live in America "land of the free"

>jacobson vs massachusetts

Pucker up

>>18815881
They're just stating their own opinions on it, any adult knows the government can try to fuck us over at any time, regardless of what the law says.

im supposedly the selfish one for endangering immuno-compromised people but fuck that. they are selfish for trying to force 99% of people to hide inside and possibly damage their health with these injections. what about their duty to healthy society?

He makes the statement that vaxxing *IS* a requirement. But society’s parameters are decided in part by the people who participate in it.
People pushing back against vaccination shows that the requirement is in question. It’s similar to gays pushing back against the definition of marriage.

>>18814117

Why didn’t he join the military to fight in Iraq?

>>18814861
Because you actually need to dedicate time to something like reading, creating higher quality anons.

>>18815975
Like >>18814363 says the social contract model is bullshit. Quid pro Quo doesn't exist. The same people who tell me to vax or mask up would tell me to pull myself up by my bootstraps if I was on the side of the road.

>>18814117
>social contract
Where is my beautiful wife?
Where is my beautiful house?
Where is my large automobile?
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was
But hey just twist my thumb some more.

>>18816062
Pity the only thing anyone ever reads here is Mein Kampf.

>>18816211
Kek, checked, and correct.

>>18814117
ITT: anti-science schizos who don't understand immunology and how vaccines work

Where are the mods to delete these thinly veiled /Pol/ threads that have nothing to do with literature?

>>18816594
tell us more about how an ineffectual experimental gene therapy injection is not meant to increase variants.

>>18816594
wait, don't bother. i got it here for you...
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198
>Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission could thus allow very virulent strains to circulate in a population.
biology 101 dumb faggot

>>18814849
The Black Plague has never infected as many people in a given year as covid has.

>>18814117
>By the way

>>18814363
Thanks for the rec

>>18814117
Read Leo Strauss. Start with Natural Right and History.

It’s pretty funny that 4chan usually favors some sort of collectivism, either of the fascist or traditionalist variety, but the instant society demands them to do something for the good of others they instantly become hyper individualists. Rules for thee and not for me

>>18816800
>It’s pretty funny that 4chan usually favors some sort of collectivism, either of the fascist or traditionalist variety, but the instant corporations demand them to do something in the name of more centralization for a surveillance state they instantly become hyper individualists. Rules for thee and not for me

>>18816621
>infected
We bathe in viruses that infect us, all the time. More than half a billion people were infected with the avian flu and that isn't the widest range. Besides the population was then a tenth of our current one and transportation harder so it was localized (or travelled slowly). Lets' see whether covid could kill a third of the population in three years in Europe. Inb4 the vaccines will stop it, say 1/9th of the population in a year, globally of course to correspond to out day.
Counting infections (which is dubious considering the methods used, see how corrected they were in the recent mass testing of 12 million people around Wuhan) only reveals the stupidity of the situation.

>>18816800
4chaan always had a very individualist bend, from the time of primitive memetics to shilling Ron Paul, going all in on crypto in part for dreams of independence, insisting on free speech and complete anonymity, hating on surveillance, role playing as patricians with their own judgements to the point of contrarianism, etc, with a bit of Hitler memetics because of den Juden.
This is a very contrived rewriting of how anons operate to get some epic gotcha. The only relatively consistent collectivism among anons in recent years is calling for enforced monogamy and pater familias authority. Basically collectivizing the treatment of women. what you'd describe as incel theory.

>>18816839
Isn’t that what they want, though? A strong authoritarian state to safeguard western values from the degenerate trannies and rapist immigrants? I don’t think Nazi Germany would be too kind to antivaxxers if they were still around. They were also pretty chummy with corporations, hence the corporatism

>>18816904
It's not a single state asshole. it's a global enterprise. How has this not been made apparent to you by now?
>Nazi Germany
stopped reading there. first you mentioned fascists and/or traditionalists as the collectivism of 4chans mindset, how do you go from that to Nazi Germany. Stupid nigger.

>>18814117
Human rights are a spook

>>18814363
>The contract itself can not effect a clause that it not be broken because if the contract is broken then none of the clauses have any effect.
That is illogical. You can break parts of contracts without the whole thing being invalidated.

The main gist of the social contract is that you will obey the rules of your society and, in return, you will receive the benefits and protections of the society.

If you break one of those rules, such as murder, you will lose some of the benefits of that society (being able to travel freely within that society) without necessarily losing all benefits and protections.

>>18816904
>A strong authoritarian state
> strong
Solid, capable, efficient, resistant to stress or external forces.
> authoritarian
Virtue is authoritative. If the State is virtuous, no one has reason to buck under its authority.
> State
I'll settle for any form of organization that makes sense, isn't clearly and obviously doomed to failure, and doesn't secretly want to turn me into a warhammer 40k Servitor.

>>18816611
It has been pretty effective if you ask me.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1088

>>18816617
So now schizos have to dig up 6 year old studies to support their delusional anti-vax narrative.
Ironically that study is not an argument against vaccination because the mechanism they describe that vaccinations would interfere with is:

> Conventional wisdom is that natural selection will remove highly lethal pathogens if host death greatly reduces transmission.

Letting people die is not a good basis for public health policy so the purpose of this study is to highlight a potential side-effect, not to dissuade people from vaccination.

Also:
>Our data do not demonstrate that vaccination was responsible for the evolution of hyperpathogenic strains of MDV, and we may never know for sure why they evolved in the first place.

And:
>This does not mean that such technologies should be avoided, particularly when alternative options are limited. Vaccination has massively reduced yield losses due to MD, despite the evolution.

Go easy on that Dunning-Kruger effect.

>>18816962
>That research is 6 years old so it doesn't count

>>18816981
I never said it didn't count. I was just observing the absurdity of /pol/ schizos and Facebook boomers (or maybe just you since I don't frequent those places) having to dig up old studies in order to legitimate their claims even though that study doesn't even prove them right.

>>18817020
Your desire to be ordered around by authority is unhealthy. The variants are created by the ineffectual experimental gene therapy injections that have not been FDA approved nor have been tested for longterm side effects.
Be sure to sign up for your fifth, your sixth, your tenth shot from the pharmaceutical corporation, literally replacing your innate biological natural protection against outside agents with a constant ineffectual pharmaceuticals that are quite literally exposing your body to become a drug factory dependent on corporations. Seek help.

>>18817020
>six years
>old
The claim of the other anon is not controversial. You also have a lot of nerve calling people schizos while reposting the infamous "95%" abstract. I won't make you the affront of discussing yet again.

>>18817046
Seek help faggot. Masks do not protect you and relying on injections that have not been tested for longterm side effects are killing you. Go outside, breathe some oxygen and remove yourself from the mainstream corporate news.

>>18817040
You sound like the type of people who show up in those All Gas No Brakes videos

>>18817055
All Gas No Breaks is the same as people who go to college campuses to gotcha Liberal kids.

Cringe.

>>18817046
It's considered infamous by whom? /Pol/tards opinions are irrelevant so if it's considered infamous by them it doesn't count.
I also linked a study showing results in practise which proves it right. There are many more like them.

>>18817061
He just goes to events and lets people talk. It's raw unbiased journalism. If you don't like it because it depicts people like you then that's on you.

>>18817105
>What is sampling bias
I'm sure you'll agree that my media conglomerate only airing footage of violent communists burning down buildings and killing innocents despite there being a significant number of nazis doing the dame thing constitutes neutral reporting of the news then?

>>18817087
By those that are careful, say Raoult to give a name. You can put aside your obsession with /pol/. The fact you pretend to not even have heard about it already shows your bad faith.

Daily reminder that more Australians died from the common flu in a single flu season than Australians have died from covid in almost two years.

>>18817159
How's the military lockdown, cunts? You got the tracking app from the google app store?

>>18817131
Except he interviews all types of lunatics regardless of political affiliation. He just attends crazy events and investigates the type of people who participate in them. Do you want him to participate in mundane events where he will find mundane people so to seem less biased?

>>18817139
>Raoult
He won the Rusty Razor Award for pseudoscience by the Skeptic Magazine. He doesn't seem the most trustworthy authority on microbiology if you ask me.

>>18817177
I live in north sydney, away from the poors, doing fine here lol.
Really though in the wealthy areas there is zero police presence and people are having meetups in parks and shit. Whereas out west the police and military are patrolling everything.

>>18816621
Not the point retard. The plague killed 90% of those infected, whereas Covid kills less than 1%

>>18817131

Not everything in human society can be quantified with cold statistics dude, sometimes you just have to go to a place and find a true believer who will tell you what the fuck is going on. It's the "small data" that puts cold statistics into context. Just because Andrew is seeking out a certain type of person to interview doesn't mean his work is completely invalidated, there's still a lot to learn from those individuals about a wider movement. If I want to do a study on pick up artists, am I going to just randomly sample people or am I going to try and find guys who are real deep into that scene? Use your noggin.

>>18814117
Nozick

Freedom is more important. Better to die of the flu but free than be a vaxed rat but civilized.

>>18817221

Covid would kill like 15% of people if we didn't have ventilators and advanced medicine that costs individuals thousands of dollars. Nearly everybody who goes to the hospital from Covid has some sort of long term complication, from lung scarring, stroke, blood clots etc. Why should we want to be maimed for life just because there's a "statistically lower than the bubonic plague" chance to die?

This fucking argument always gets to me. What activity would you do that has a 1-2% chance of death? Why should breathing in a public place carry that risk? How do you convince yourself you're the smart one here, do you also play the lottery? Do you have it in your head that 1% is basically 0% or something (again really 15% but I'll give)? What's your malfunction?

>>18817250

Why don't you just shoot yourself and spare everyone else your nasty ass germs?

>>18817280
Because I don't want to. I do what I want and not what makes you feel better. That must be a foreign concept to a rat.

>>18817276
>Covid would kill like 15% of people if we didn't have ventilators and advanced medicine
Prove it.

>Nearly everybody who goes to the hospital from Covid has some sort of long term complication
Prove it.

>What activity would you do that has a 1-2% chance of death?
You forgot a couple of decimal points there. And driving, fyi.

Dropping some hard to swallow data.
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm

>inb4 huur duur retracted
Look at the reason why the journal retracted the article, and think for yourself. The data still remains as data regardless of how upset it made the 'misinformation managers' and 'fact checkers'.

>>18817208
>He doesn't seem the most trustworthy authority on microbiology if you ask me.
He's arguably the most important man in Europe on the treatment of infectious diseases, certainly in his country.
>skeptic magazine
Anon, I...

>>18817322
May as well post the reason for retraction because anons are lazy.
>The data from the Lareb report (https://www.lareb.nl/coronameldingen)) in The Netherlands were used to calculate the number of severe and fatal side effects per 100,000 vaccinations
>For this type of reporting a causal relation between the event and the vaccine is not needed, therefore a reported event that occurred after vaccination is not necessarily attributable to vaccination. Thus, reporting of a death following vaccination does not imply that this is a vaccine-related event

>>18816904
>corporatism
>Corporatism does not refer to a political system dominated by large business interests, even though the latter are commonly referred to as "corporations" in modern American legal and pop cultural parlance; instead, the correct term for this theoretical system would be corporatocracy.
People like you should be killed.

>>18817213
Interesting. The fact that poorfags are the ones mistreated is not very surprising but occulted in the media.

>>18817276
>Covid would kill like 15% of people
As we all know, third world countries with virtually no such infrastructures have seen a 15% depopulation in a year. Rural China is depopulated. Africans gone. The medicine that do work cost pennies, and were mass deployed in several places.
>Nearly everybody who goes to the hospital from Covid has some sort of long term complication
Physicians were forbidden from treating covid so only people with heavy complications went to one, in hospitals. Still nothing close to the majority had any long term complications.

>>18817276
.002%

>>18817280
Behold the byproduct of covid. Generation nanny. We will have to kill these people In our life time.

>>18816943
Your missing two things. First the social foundation, second what is the efficient rather than instrumental cause.

Hobbes said the state of nature was "war of all against all" and only a social contract or covenant could impose peace on society. But the virtue to honour and perform that social contract must come from nature itself and already exist in nature as a condition for a contract to be able to have any effect at all, otherwise any social contract would be torn up by the anarchical warmongers and the civil war resumed. The foundation of society is the virtues already present in the inward natures of the parties to be agreeable, socialable, honourable. The efficacy of a contract supervenes on the virtues within nature that exist prior to the contracts effect, a willingness to be agreeable, to agree, to be honourable and to be bound by that agreement.

Social contracts, laws, and all the mechanisms of State, are not what effects society. The effective cause is the inward virtue of the members, in the least to honour an agreement (and much more, to desire to be socialable etc. all the civic virtues). Social contracts and laws are the intrumental causes of the civic virtues power that provide the small forms for how civic virtues will take shape.

Think of how an ordinary contract works. Its not the contract itself that provides enforcement power, its the parties willingness to perform what they agreed to. And if either party dishonours the agreement, then the contract itself has no power, waving paper in someones face does nothing but fan air at them. A court, the baliffs and sherrifs, provide the effective power of a dishonoured contract, not the contract-in-itself.

>>18814117
sartre

>>18816904
I want very rare applications of traditional hard power politics, think the King publicly executing one prisoner out of every hundred, or closed borders in cases of pandemics, over an omnipresent coercive soft power constantly monitoring and dictating every aspect of our lives.
Read more right wing traditionalists like Foucault.

>>18817276
>What activity would you do that has a 1-2% chance of death?
Heroin? Riding a motorcycle really fast with no helmet? Russian roulette? Bare knuckles boxing?
I don't want the Fed locking people up over that either.

>>18816594
holy shit, shut the fuck up. every single post you've made in this thread has been worthless bait.

>>18814117
The social norms required for mass data collection are discussed in Surveillance Capitalism

>>18817386
>The fact that poorfags are the ones mistreated is not very surprising but occulted in the media
Early in 2020 there was some talk in the media about how ethnic groups are more susceptible to covid and need greater protection. That talking point went as quick as it came. Probably out of fear how it could be interpreted, that its all the outer suburb muzzies and indians etc who continue to spread covid.

>>18814117
Given Bill Kristols age it is highly unlikely that he has received even a fraction of all the vaccines given to modern children. Vaccine schedule recommendations vary widely from country to country, people in the US do not get vaccinated for Japanese encephalitis, non military members do not typically get vaccinated for anthrax etc... This idea of some "civilized society" with a monolithic vaccine policy does not exist

>>18818687
>Skyrocketing rates of childhood issues like Alzheimer's
Pardon?

>>18817351
>this triggers the /pol/ schizos so much that they won’t even reply
Priceless

>>18817881
>Read more right wing traditionalists like Foucault.
Kek

>>18814363
>>18817709
Excellent posts, fren.

>>18815049
Based

Some dumb neo-lib retard has shit up the thread with talking points provided by corporations. When shown are much of a faggot he is, he can only see reality through his e-celebs (all gas no brakes), and responds in accordance with them.
Fuck you, you fucking cunt.

>>18816800
That's cause we don't live in a fascist or traditional society. We live in a rotten, hyper individualist capitalist hellscape, and nothing the system will demand from us will bring us closer to the collectivist society we want. Since changing this is pretty much impossible all people can do is take defensive positions to try and make sure the slim liberties and rights we still have are not taken away.
Want people to become a meaningful part of the community they live in? Then start by making this community livable.

>>18816800
Are the people of 4chan obliged to support collectivism that is openly hostile towards them just because they wish for collectivism that would benefit them and their communities, exactly because they know that other collectivist entities are out there and are similarly hostile against them as their current overlords?

>>18817351
>>18819026
>Die after getting Covid
Covid killed you
>Die after getting the vaccine
I-it's just a coincidence!

>>18814117
Plato was an authoritarian not a social contract midwit

>>18817225
Except the claim was that he was a reporter, not an academic. Stop moving the goalposts

>>18816962
The bulk of information you read on scientific textbooks comes from research that has been done years, sometimes decades, ago. The year in which the experiment was conducted has nothing to do with the validity of the findings you dishonest fuck.
No, letting people die unnecessarily is probably not a good public health policy. That's why those at risk of actually dying from covid should be able to get vaccinated. Forcing the entire population, regardless of age and health, to take the vaccine is obviously motivated by financial gains.
The narrative in the west went from "you shouldn't worry if you're not 85+ and obese and diabetic" in 2020 to "OMG we have to vaccinate everyone from the age of 12 and older" now. NPCs like you are being manipulated by the media to the point where you feel shame for considering for even one second that this whome thing has been blown out of proportion. That's why you immediately attack those who dare to disagree and call them conspiracy schizos. You're nothing but a product.

>>18816800
So true, covid exposed the Right as fundamentally beholden to liberalism.

>>18817910
>Russian roulette? I don't want the Fed locking people up over that either
OK, what if you had to play Russian roulette against your will because you're in the store and some fat retard is standing right behind you breathing down your neck?

It's over bros, covid is cancelled.
>https://www.rt.com/news/531485-wuhan-covid-testing-complete/
Inb4 muh china, they have unironically been more transparent than westerners on the epidemic, and the process had international observers.

What's worse: Trump Derangement Syndrome or Mask Derangement Syndrome? People thinking being asked to wear a mask in public is another shoah.

>>18814117
The prophecy always speaks the truth.

>>18819815
Jews seethed over COVID restrictions though. Remember all those Hasids getting hosed?

>>18819818
I know well that not all jews are the same or have the same intentions but the rich and powerful ones are different.

>>18814117
Just take Ivermectin

>>18819786
the problem is that by agreeing to wear a mask you are helping the pandemic continue. If people stopped wearing masks people would forget that corona existed. Imagine if you were forced to wear a "remember the Notre Dame" hat or something every time you stepped outside. No one would have forgotten that it was burned down by Muslims two years ago.

>>18819873
Weren't we supposed to have herd immunity by now?

>>18819957
They literally redefined words so that you needed to take the jabs to be labelled herd immunity. They're unironically making shit up as they go along.

>>18817323
>He's arguably the most important man in Europe on the treatment of infectious diseases, certainly in his country.
Are you telling me that a man who published a paper on a treatment for Covid-19 full of ethical issues, confounding factors, weak peer review among other issues is the most important man in France, let alone Europe, on the treatment of infectious diseases?
Nevermind that the co-author of the paper is also the editor-in-chief of the journal in which the paper was published in as well as a subordinate of Raoult.

https://scienceintegritydigest.com/2020/03/24/thoughts-on-the-gautret-et-al-paper-about-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-treatment-of-covid-19-infections/

>>18817375
People like him should be killed for using a term that does not denote precisely what the idea conveys?

>>18820141
yes!

>>18819495
>The bulk of information you read on scientific textbooks comes from research that has been done years, sometimes decades, ago. The year in which the experiment was conducted has nothing to do with the validity of the findings you dishonest fuck.
It's ironic how you call me dishonest when in that very post, I have exposed schizos trying to portray a study that does not prove what they think it does. They just did that to legitimise their vaccine phobia.
And also, you are the second or third retard who keeps thinking I was trivialising the study for being 6 years old when in fact, I was pointing out the absurdity of having to dig up a study from years ago to justify your schizo claims. A study which, like I said above, does not even prove what you think it does.

>Forcing the entire population, regardless of age and health, to take the vaccine is obviously motivated by financial gains.
Obviously? You don't pay to get vaccinated. Hell, Biden even considered to pay people to take the vaccine instead.
The reason why governments want everyone vaccinated is to decrease the probabilities of virus transmission. A vaccinated person might still get infected and transmit the virus since the vaccine is not 100% effective, in fact no vaccine is. That's due to the fact that an immune system not always develops a perfect response to it however the probabilities of getting infected are still low. The probabilities get even lower the more people get vaccinated because then one sick person will infect fewer people on average. That's the herd immunity done right unlike what that retard Boris tried to do in the UK. In order for that to happen though, over 90% should be vaccinated.

>The narrative in the west went from "you shouldn't worry if you're not 85+ and obese and diabetic" in 2020 to "OMG we have to vaccinate everyone from the age of 12 and older" now.
No, that's still the narrative. Your immune system can fight the virus more effectively if you are young and healthy so you are at less risk (but still at much higher risk than if you are vaccinated) but it doesn't mean you won't catch it and transmit it to others thus increasing its spread. That's why everyone should get vaccinated for the reason stated above.

>NPCs like you are being manipulated by the media to the point where you feel shame for considering for even one second that this whome thing has been blown out of proportion. That's why you immediately attack those who dare to disagree and call them conspiracy schizos. You're nothing but a product.
I'm the NPC being manipulated by the media but you, who gets manipulated by schizo rhetoric due to lack of scientific knowledge and critical thinking, aren't.
Have you tried perhaps, I don't know, read or something? Like philosophy such as the Greeks so that you can think for yourself instead of sprouting the same old arguments that I keep finding on /pol/? Maybe if everyone did that, we could develop herd immunity against schizos.

>>18814117
Um sweaty, I think you forgot one little detail... it's my body, my choice :^)

>>18819968
In the first image, herd immunity through previous infections clearly didn't work so they had to update it to herd immunity through vaccine only to avoid confusion.

In the second image, a dictionary updated the definition of vaccine to be more in depth and up to date with science. Big deal, dictionaries always update definitions to reflect changes in reality.

>>18816594
Discussions about social contract theories and moral duties are pretty /lit/ desu.

>>18820266
>herd inmunity is the indirect protection from an infectious disease
>herd inmunity also knows as "population inmunity" is a concept used for vaccination
knowing phony public relations as i know i bet they are trying to change or mask "herd inmunity" as "population inmunity" which is actually about the most people vaccinated the better.
they dont make this things to avoid confussion, for christ sake... you are naive as shit. they are playing with words with you so you think with them what they think is best.

>>18814381
this, fichte is good

>>18820266
>to reflect changes in reality.
You are delusional. Reality doesn't change, it just is.

>>18820381
Population immunity is just a synonym of herd immunity meaning they are one and the same.
That article is just about covid-19 pandemic in which case, herd immunity through previous infections does not work anymore and probably never did. They removed it to reflect that and to avoid confusion like you are having. Lesser intelligent people (no offense but you don't seem very bright) might jump to conclusions and assume "Hold up, you can also develop herd immunity by contracting the virus so let's just keep doing that instead of taking the vaccine".

>>18820616
A famous person is alive and exists. The famous person dies and doesn't exist anymore. Reality is changed because they have become dead. Wikipedia editor updates their article to inform they are now dead.
They say to start with the Greeks, not to get stuck with the Greeks, especially not Parmenides.

>>18817709
Thank you effort poster

>>18815049
I see CКOPAЯ ПOMOЩЬ there, this is a Russian queue at a Russian hospital. Was suspicious at the start, since these guys had already visited my house taking 2 people dying a week or so after a mandatory vaxx.

The country with the highest income inequality on planet fucking Earth lead by openly degenerate robber barons, also one that had spent around 70 years literally a totalitarian gulag. How the sheeple here trust anyone on a state owned premises is beyond me.
Must be the TV, they all say Russian TV is the absolute savage agitprop on planet Earth, but can't confirm since don't dare to spend a minute on it.

>>18821567
Meanwhile China has been COVID-free for a year because the stupid sheeple obeyed their evil communist guberment.

>>18820707
>"Hold up, you can also develop herd immunity by contracting the virus so let's just keep doing that instead of taking the vaccine".
its obvious they do it for this. the problem here is that they change the real definition of the word to do it. the words and his meaning are important. they literally erase "the inmunity developed through previous infection" because that dont fit well in the narrative they want to sell in this moment. so instead of explaining it they just erase it. if you permit somebody treat you as a child they never gonna end, this kind of shit fuck my head.
and i know its an important issue, but they employ the same techniques than a vulgar publicist. and that is basically my concern. not conspiracy madhatter shit.

Bill Kristol was good in When Harry Met Sally.

>>18820228
>Obviously? You don't pay to get vaccinated. Hell, Biden even considered to pay people to take the vaccine instead
Right, cause vaccines are researched and produced for free by pharma companies, and acquired by the government for free. That's totally how the world works. And also multi billion dollar corporations have no influence over public policy. How are you even alive being this naive?
>Your immune system can fight the virus more effectively if you are young and healthy so you are at less risk (but still at much higher risk than if you are vaccinated) but it doesn't mean you won't catch it and transmit it to others thus increasing its spread. That's why everyone should get vaccinated for the reason stated above.
If young people can catch the virus and fight it with ease, and thus become immunized in the process, why the fuck should they take the vaccine? The end effect will be the same since after infection they won't be transmitting the virus either. Yes they'll catch the virus and be infectious for a while but the vulnerable people are already vaccinated so what's to fear? In fact natural immunity has been shown to last longer than vaccine immunity (over a year vs ~6 months tops respectively) and also offer better protection against the delta variant. That's arguably a more cost-effective way of achieving herd immunity.
https://www.ds.se/om-oss/press2/#/pressreleases/antikroppar-efter-mild-covid-19-haaller-i-minst-ett-aar-och-binder-ocksaa-den-nya-delta-varianten-3116980
https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/WHO-2019-nCoV-Sci_Brief-Natural_immunity-2021.1
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-may-be-superior-pfizer-against-delta-breakthrough-odds-rise-with-time-2021-08-09/?utm_source=reddit.com
>The reason why governments want everyone vaccinated is to decrease the probabilities of virus transmission.
Give me a source showing the efficacy of the vaccines against transmission of the delta strain. If you've been paying attention to the news you probably know by now that that narrative is collapsing too.

>>18820707
>>>18821854
>>18820707
>herd immunity through previous infections does not work anymore and probably never did.
Also give me a source for this while you're at. So the WHO recognized natural immunity as a way of achieving herd immunity but sometime between June and November of 2020 they realized that all this time they were wrong in thinking this and suddenly it doesn't apply anymore? Show me the research paper that led to this decision. I have a feeling that you'll call me stupid, ignorant, schizo, and tell me to read the greeks instead though.

>>18817131
>only airing footage of violent communists burning down buildings and killing innocents despite there being a significant number of nazis doing the dame thing
LMAO
WHAT THE FUCK

Antifas and trannies are truly subhumans disconnected from reality.

>>18816943
The problem is that the west had nice and neat social contracts.

No trannies.
No homos.
You should be healthy.
You should have a healthy family.
etc.

Leftists completely destroyed society and promoted all kinds of degeneracy, they fucked up the social contract and callet it "social progress".
Now that th leftist social contract is crashing and burning because ends up that a lot of the "old contract" features were there to promote a healthy society, now we are being forced to adhere to a new social contract.

And example of this is the whole "free sex" society.
We were told that we shouldn't tell homosexual to stop buttfucking strangers and getting all kinds of diseases. Now that those homosexuals are becoming ticking bombs and vectors of disease we are forced a experimental vaccine in order to save the life of those homo that destroy their own immune system in the first place.
The same thing applies to fatsos, to junkies, etc.

This can be summarized in an injustice.
A bioleninist dictatorship were the dregs of society, the losers and the subhumans that swim in their own filth are worshiping """science""" as a mechanical god that prevents death in order to sustain their life of vice.

The only answer against an injust system is to destroy it.
So you are calling u "anti social" but I say that we want to destroy a profound anti-social system that has been created through the parasitation of our society by human parasites.

Is not about "living in a society" is about taking back our society from the human parasytes.

>>18819549
Don't go to the store I guess.
>A bloo bloo bloo this people is THREATENING ME just by existing within proximity to me. SAVE ME MR GUBBERMINT
Fuck off you hoser cunt. I hope you suffer from real problems some day.

>>18818213
I'm going to let you in on a secret why covid btfos minorities: obesity. Obesity is the number one cause of covid related death. Minorities have the highest rates of obesity. You might argue that it is healthcare access, but the 3rd world countries with no medical infrastructure are doing fine because they aren't fucking obese.

>>18814117
>muh individual rights, muh freedoms
Moderns disgust me.

>>18820228
You need to get up to date information. Vaccinated individuals carry higher amounts of covid and sometimes asymptomatically. The CDC has admitted as much. Countries that are extremely vaccinated like Israel and Iceland are seeing no efficacy of the vaccine against transmission of the delta variant. It is pants on head retarded to mandate vaccination to stop the spread of covid when vaccination not only fails to accomplish that task but also creates a potential for increased asymptomatic spread over an unvaxxed individual. This is not even getting into the legitimate concerns about leaky vaccinations contributing to the creation of variants. I've got nothing against masks and a mask mandate or even social distancing. All of those measures are common sense. The actual data on the efficacy and effects of the vaccine is troubling. Especially because masks and distancing clearly worked much better than blind faith in a faulty scam vax by the numbers.

>>18814117
weil in the need for roots

>>18821616
How's Sweden doing? Heard from them lately?

>>18822759
not that anon but I live in Sweden however im a total shut in and i dont watch news at all. when i go shopping no one wears masks anymore so i assume a lot of ppl got vacced.

I'm fully vaccinated (3 shots of Astrazeneca), wear a mask all day long even in my own home to protect my little ones which are shot up with Pfizer (3 total) and although I don't make them wear a mask all day, I do force them to wear one outside which they are only allowed within the confines of our backyard. My wife doesn't let me have sex with her unfortunately, but she does seem to enjoy my neighbors company...If she is up to something with that guy I don't think it would bother me. Hahaha. Back to the topic at hand...What was it again? Oh yes, why have I decided to take experimental gene therapy injections? The Answer is obvious is it not? The science has told us that its in our best interest to protect everyone around us. Haha. I haven't had sex in fifteen years.

>>18821616
>Trust literal communists
Some of us did that in 1917, ain't gonna fly the second time.
Meanwhile Sweden is a desolate wasteland of corpse mounds and ghost cities, amirite?

>>18822990
Whatever, The Science tells me to do something, I will do it without question because I know that The Science would never betray my family. What was that? Who funds The Science? Please stop being racist. My Wife and I have a date booked in 3 months. Hopefully she lets me get physical.

>>18822780
Where I live on the North Caucasus in Russia, ppl don't wear masks on principle. Only the police, the medics and mall security and cashiers, the rest just don't enforce stupid orders made by moral nobodies with reputations of a dumpsite rat.
In Moscow, I am told, there is a gulag with mandatory masks and rubber gloves for some reason, however.

>>18821854
>Right, cause vaccines are researched and produced for free by pharma companies, and acquired by the government for free. That's totally how the world works. And also multi billion dollar corporations have no influence over public policy. How are you even alive being this naive?
Oh, I see what you are implying. The pharma companies have lobbied governments to make vaccines mandatory in order to profit more off us.
As much I'm aware that these big pharmas are known for shady business practises, especially Pfizer, that's an extraordinary claim that will require extraordinary evidence.
Do you really think that's more likely than just governments wanting to speed up the vaccination process mandatory in order to end the pandemic faster and go back to normal? Because the incentives to end the pandemic are huge and pharma companies profiting off mandatory vaccination just seems an out-turn.

>If young people can catch the virus and fight it with ease, and thus become immunized in the process, why the fuck should they take the vaccine?
They become immune in the short-term, around 7-8 months as stated in that WHO's briefing but we have observed that it "declines modestly" after that period
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

We also know that people have been reeinfected in a shorter timeframe so natural immunity to the virus seems inconsistent and varies from person to person.
That's one thing in which vaccines are better, they provide much more consistent and predictable immunity.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2101667

>In fact natural immunity has been shown to last longer than vaccine immunity (over a year vs ~6 months tops respectively and also offer better protection against the delta variant.
Yeah, no. The first claim is bullshit as proven above. What is the source for the second claim?


>Give me a source showing the efficacy of the vaccines against transmission of the delta strain. If you've been paying attention to the news you probably know by now that that narrative is collapsing too.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891


>>18821898
>Also give me a source for this while you're at. So the WHO recognized natural immunity as a way of achieving herd immunity but sometime between June and November of 2020 they realized that all this time they were wrong in thinking this and suddenly it doesn't apply anymore?
If you are referring to that briefing, they didn't acknowledge that at all. They just observed that immunity from previous infections lasts up to 8 months. If they did acknowledge it though then there's a good reason to realise they were wrong given the Manaus variant in early 2021 which reinfected several people.
https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00183-5/fulltext

>>18820266
Bait.

>>18823135
Haha good one bro. I'll take your advice and another anons advice and start to wear 4 masks, maybe then my wife will have sex with me. My neighbors next door are stupid antivaxers that keep telling us that respiratory viruses that affect animals can't be conquered and that experimental gene therapy vaccinations only encourage wilier pathogens. They even go so far as to say that by inducing vaccinations into our system we are destroying natural antibodies! Haha so ridiculous. Anyways, Keep up with preaching The Science brotha, these people are misguided and need to be led into the light where The Science has the answers and is infallible and always has our best interests in mind. Haha.

>>18821616
Is that a joke?

>>18815049
It's hilarious how Israel has the highest rate of vaccination and is also the worst hit by the variants. Really makes me think.

>>18815881
This isn't quite the same. For one thing Smallpox is significantly more fatal than Covid. For another this is before the advent of many modern technologies and more importantly government agencies like the FDA.

The Covid-19 vaccine is not FDA approved yet. There was a ruling a few years back where the courts decided it was ILLEGAL for the government to force military members to get vaccinations that were not FDA approved. This was centered around the then experimental Anthrax vaccine. All Covid 19 vaccines are experimental.

>>18823135
>Also give me a source for this while you're at. So the WHO recognized natural immunity as a way of achieving herd immunity but sometime between June and November of 2020 they realized that all this time they were wrong in thinking this and suddenly it doesn't apply anymore?
Ok, my reading comprehension failed me on this one.
They recognised herd immunity before June-November 2020 because that was the beginning of the pandemic so they assumed it could work and it does in the short-term but less predictable and effective compared to the vaccine.
Btw when I said "herd immunity through previous infections does not work anymore and probably never did", I meant it on a global scale. It was probably never realistic to expect the virus to vanish by just letting everyone catch it and develop natural immunity. The Manaus clusterfuck showed that.

>>18816078
Not to mention the same people that tell you that will support the opposite if it's presented as good or 'their camp'.

>>18814594
>>18815544
These things are not about thinking or having a position. They're about my ill-defined tribe good, your ill-defined tribe bad and being 'right' in a social conformity way and the positive reinforcement that yields.

>>18823135
>The first claim is bullshit as proven above.
I provided a source. https://www.ds.se/om-oss/press2/#/pressreleases/antikroppar-efter-mild-covid-19-haaller-i-minst-ett-aar-och-binder-ocksaa-den-nya-delta-varianten-3116980
This is also the source of my second claim but of course you don't know that. Yeah it's in another language but it shouldn't stop a person with an iq >70 from using a translator.

Also you don't seem to be aware that the efficacy of vaccines also decline after a few months, and that's quite hilarious.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-may-be-superior-pfizer-against-delta-breakthrough-odds-rise-with-time-2021-08-09/

I won't even address the rest of your post as you're clearly not willing to have an honest discussion. You can't just claim that a (sourced) statement is bullshit because it doesn't fit your arguments. You're just to arrogant and immature for me to continue with this. Have a good day

>>18823135
>https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2101667
>"Our study has several limitations. The findings are observational and should be interpreted with caution."
HMMMMMM

>>18814117
Ah this jew with a new hot take

>>18815049
another satisfied customer

>>18815136
this is what happens when your society gets less than 75% white

>>18814117
> By the way, homosexuality laws are not a "deeply personal decision". It is a routine public health requirement in a civilized society.

>>18815881
These retards are fighting it wrong. You fight it as a property rights case. My body is my property and civil wars have been fought over the government trying to trample on property rights

>>18822126
>No homos.
The West was created by homos. If you eradicated every homo in history there would be no West to talk of!

>>18826097
So, out of how many millions of vaxxed people, only 1M had side effects? And a measly 1400 died, compared to what, also millions of dead from Covid itself?
I agree the vax was pushed way too fast and thick, but the benefits for the population at large are obvious, and the drawbacks minimal. Sure, (you) might get unlucky, but most likely won't.

>>18814117
So most countries are not civilized societies then

>>18826212
wtf I love big cocks now!

>>18826212
>I'll cherry pick all these ancient sources and suggest homosexuality was ever commonly accepted anywhere!
>it wasn't though
lolok
plenty of Greek and Roman sources say much to the opposite, yet somehow those didn't make it into your polmeme

>>18826212
The Phaedrus speech is the foil speech of Phaedrus's pederest teacher for Socrates to BTFO and the save the boy from being raped

>>18823207
Israeis also have some of the worst diets on planet Earth. They consume way too many carbohydrates (crucially, while largely being physically inactive) and omega-6 PUFAs

>>18826416
>plenty of Greek and Roman sources say much to the opposite
Name some.

>>18826472
Aristophanes

Didn't read a single post ITT
Still not getting vaccinated

>>18826498
NO YOU CAN'T JUST IGNORE WHAT THE EXPERTS ARE TELLING YOU
LISTEN TO THE SCIENCE

>>18826484
Aristophanes, being a satirist, regularly makes fun of homosexuals, it is true. He also viciously mocks generals and anti-Spartan demes for their militarism. Does that mean militarism was socially unacceptable in Athens? Far from proving that homosexuality was not tolerated, the omnipresence of homosexuality in Aristophanes' plays seems to imply an omnipresence of homosexuality in ancient Athens. I also have to point out that his plays contain numerous references to things like the many monuments dedicated to Harmodius and Aristogeiton that existed in ancient Greece (two tyrant-killers, whose homosexual relationship is reported by Thucydides and Plato). Aeschylus, who Aristophanes praises at length, famously made Achilles and Patroclus' relationship a sexual one in his Myrmidons. Not to mention, Plato attributes one of the most pro-homosexual speeches in the Symposium to Aristophanes. And while we are on the topic of playwrights, Sophocles' homosexuality was legendary. We cannot pass over the fact that the Greeks attributed pederastic verse to their lawgiver Solon, and later historians in antiquity describe him as permitting only free men to have homosexual loves, and forbidding it to slaves (Aristotle says that another lawgiver, either of the Thebans or the Spartans I think, mandated homosexual relations as well). Theognis, Ibycus, Theocritus, Strato, Sappho, etc. were famous for their homoerotic verse. Plato has Socrates begin the dialogue Lysis by promising to assist Hippothales with wooing his homosexual crush who provides the dialogues namesake (Socrates also confesses, in numerous dialogues, his pursuit of Alcibiades: and goes dizzy at the sight of Charmides' bare torso). Can we forget, either, the romance between Apollo and Hyacinth? Zeus and Ganymede? Or Heracles' many male beloveds? Xenophon encounters many homosexuals on his journeys, and himself says that most Greek cities allow for relationships between lovers and beloveds. And that is just a small portion of the evidence.

>>18826571
The generals were mocked for losing or being corrupt, or doing something stupid worthy of ridicule, like pedestry or plucking hairs from their arses to faciliate sodomy.

>>18826581
Yes? But are you implying that Aristophanes was not an "anti-war" writer?

>>18826571
Indulged but loathed like in Medieval Europe, which also preserved and republished the same myths despite harsh public laws against it.

Please Science help us defeat this disease! I swear I believe in you, Science!! I'm not an antivaxxer and I'll lock down as long a I need to... please!!!!!

>>18826585
Anti the conduct of a particular war writer that had been going on for decades and was being lost at the time he's producing plays.

>>18826599
Where is the evidence of loathing? In medieval writing sodomy is either treated circumspectly, or followed by rants and recriminations about immorality, even when the author is an obvious libertine, for plausible deniability. In antiquity, we find it associated not only with rakes, but more often with men of virtue.

>>18826601
dummy wojak, you can't beat a respiratory virus that affects all mammals. speaking of respiratory viruses, isn't it summer? WAIT SORRY SCIENCE I WILL STOP THINKING RIGHT NOW. TAKE CARE OF THIS VIRUS FOR US PLEASE WOJAKSAD.JPG

>>18826624
Xenophon in his Constitution of the Spartans, who are as he says are "the most powerful and most celebrated city in Greece"
>I think I ought to say something also about intimacy with boys, since this matter also has a bearing on education. In other Greek states, for instance among the Boeotians, man and boy live together, like married people; elsewhere, among the Eleians, for example, consent is won by means of favours. Some, on the other hand, entirely forbid suitors to talk with boys.

>The customs instituted by Lycurgus were opposed to all of these. If someone, being himself an honest man, admired a boy's soul and tried to make of him an ideal friend without reproach and to associate with him, he approved, and believed in the excellence of this kind of training. But if it was clear that the attraction lay in the boy's outward beauty, he banned the connexion as an abomination; and thus he caused lovers to abstain from boys no less than parents abstain from sexual intercourse with their children and brothers and sisters with each other.

>>18826643
Noooooo I masked up!! I got my Fauci Ouchie!!! I believe in Science!! We. Will. Beat. This. Virus! (claps) So shut up!!!!!

>>18826691
So? When I talk about "the Greeks", I am referring to the majority of city states, which, as Xenophon says in the passage you just quoted, allowed and encouraged homosexuality. The Spartans never wrote much and never had much culture. Everything we know about them is second hand. Besides, they were defeated by the Sacred Army of Thebes.

Though I think Xenophon's account is probably accurate, it is noteworthy that other writers like Plutarch describe the Spartans as practitioners of pederasty. And Aristophanes references their reputation as homosexuals.

>>18826643
new kind of summer™
I don't know what type of hoops they are going to jump through for cases spiking right now. I guarantee this one is in their back pocket though.

The way they're trying to get us to take this vaccine makes my skin fucking crawl. Normies really are the eternal kindergartener. I don't know how people can work full-time jobs and hold down jobs and still be such braindead cattle

>>18826722
The Spartans, as Xenophon begins, are the exemplary Greeks, who define Greekness. That they hold pedestry and homosexuality as an abdomination of the same nature as incest and outlaw it is definitive. Xenophon lived in Sparta, Plutarch is writing four hundred years after the events. Xenophon is writing of laws and norms, not the indulgences of individuals.

Obviously there was a plurality of views in Greece, but the European consensus on homosexuality is already there at the beginning as evidenced by Lycurgus. Neither he or Xenophon are Chrisitan moralists. Contempt, derision, disgust, and outlawing, the equivalence to incest and beastiality of pedestry and homosexuality is all there in Greece at the foundation. And those Greek views won the European mind.

>>18818730
Alzheimer's can be caused by pesticide

>>18826785
Xenophon was the original Spartaboo, of course he is going to say they exemplified Greekness. It is not to share his opinion. Plus he writes approvingly and neutrally of several homosexuals in his other works.

To say that the minority of Greek anti-homosexual sentiment "won out" is a cope, since there was no widespread taboo in Greco-Roman antiquity against homosexuality until the ascendance of Christianity, and said taboo did not emerge from any sort of philosophising or engagement with Greek thought, but from a pre-existing Hebrew moral code.

>>18823008
>In Moscow, I am told, there is a gulag with mandatory masks and rubber gloves for some reason, however.
No, it's a lie, it's the same in Moscow as everywhere else in Russia.

>>18816594
Based. Fuck these retards

>>18827101
(you)

>>18816962
> leftards are suddenly don't believe in evolution now
Truly the human mind is a marvel of nature if one leftard's brain can hold so many inconsistent cognitive dissonances together without exploding.

>>18826768
Maybe you're just a contrarian loser?

>>18814117
Peterson lul

Why am I being moralized to by the guy from when harry met sally

so what the FUCK are we supposed to do now that the credibility of our institutions are collapsing more rapidly than ever? there is no more consensus reality in our society

>>18814117
You know what ? I went to get jabbed. But I do not have a healthcare card of my country. So I know its dumb hahahahaha but the gubermint does not want to vaxx me because I ain't in their system.