/lit/ - Literature

Idk maybe because he's just a retarded exegete of nietzsche with no substance that only gets clinged on by retarded personal development faggots ?

Oh hey there bucko, you have done it again, you went down deep into chaos and instead of fighting the dragon and rescuing your archetypal father you've made yet another jordan peterson post, get your act straight you Manchild bare responsibility and clean up your room, too many pee bottles where chaos can hide in

>>18875856
He's a fucking nazi. No such thing as a nazi intellectual.

>>18876002
Lovely bait

>>18875856

>>18876002
Here's your (You)

>>18875856
he is a drug addict so I would say he's a legit intellectual

>>18875856
Peterson is one of those people who is not even wrong. I mean what exactly does he say? He is totally obfuscatory. His attacks on postmodernism ring hollow when he himself adheres to a very questionable criterion of truth -- that we should call true whatever is therapeutic. Which most people probably find very unsatisfying. He frustrates people's search for answers but redirecting them into a mish-mash of literary analysis and questionable eisegesis. It's more honest to be a sceptic and admit you have no answers than to retreat into abject fantasy while advertising yourself as a beacon of truth. Once you take away the (highly subjective) readings of stories and myths what exactly are you left with? Where is the substance? I mean really the most bizarre thing about him is that some random Jungian ever became a major figure in the "culture war". My problem with Peterson is not political, it's philosophical. I'm not religious, but I share the sentiments of religious people who find his ideas about religion unsettling. Religious people believe that religion makes positive, empirical truth claims about reality. For Peterson, religion is basically pragmatic (though he doesn't come out and say this).

>>18876056
>He is totally obfuscatory
You mean he's not "redpilled" on the "JQ"?

>>18876064
No.

>>18876064
yes

>>18875856
Holy fuck you sound like the biggest faggot on this board. How about you take a minute to stop gobbling Kermit the Frog's penis and look at what you're saying? If you've watched any of Jordan Peterson's lectures or debates, which I'm sure you have because you're such a pathetic little homosexual sycophant, then you'd have noticed that he hasn't read, or he's read fairly little, of the things he's criticising. In the zizek debate, he openly admitted to not having read the central texts of the ideology he was criticizing, and got absolutely intellectually buttfucked by Slavoj, who was clearly leagues above him in terms of philosophical literacy. Peterson's books are long word vomits of recycled stoicism, which he mixes with retarded psychoanalytical mysticism in an attempt to make his autistic theories sound smarter than they are. Peterson is what happens when a braindead run-of-the-mill Christian conservative realises he can lather his boring, sub-standard philosophy with bullshit and self-help advice, and publish it in a series of garbage books.

If you're over the age of 15 and still take anything Peterson says seriously, then consider killing yourself.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

>>18876064
it's curious he hasn't commented at length on 200 yrs together with Solzhenitsyn being one of his fav authors and all.

>>18876073
>Peterson is what happens when a braindead run-of-the-mill Christian conservative realises he can lather his boring
Peterson isn’t even a Christian. Sorry, tranny, you are still not a woman and you’ll never be
Also, zizek is a sociologist (read: fraud), not a philosopher. Literally nobody in any serious field cares about zikek

>>18876081
>zikek
i kek'ed

>>18876073
Jordan Peterson is very well respected in his field of study, ignoring what he wrote because you're butthurt that he doesn't like your little pet ideology is wrong

>>18876081
Peterson is on record identifying as Christian, just a different type of one. A Christian though nevertheless.

Zizek is a philosopher as well as a sociologist. He's written and discussed a ton of philosophical topics over the past 40 years, which you'd know if you weren't such a terminally online alt-right brainlet.

>Literally nobody in any serious field cares about zikek

Peterson is a laughing stock of contemporary intellegentsia, as well as all philosophical academy. He's only taken seriously by dickless virgin teenagers with daddy issues

>>18876105
Identifying as a Christian who doesn't believe Christianity is actually true is like identifying as a Communist who believes in private property and unregulated markets.

>>18876105
You ooze resentment

>>18875856
IRL Ned Pointsman lmao

>>18876101
>Jordan Peterson is very well respected in his field of study
What field of study is that? Jungian psychoanalysis? Might as well be chiropractic

>>18876105
>Peterson is a laughing stock of contemporary intellegentsia
He's not. he's a well respected psychologist, just because he doesn't refer to you by your preferred pronouns, doesn't mean he have to lie about the guy

>>18876118
Just because he repeated your favourite pol talking points doesn't make him well respected
:)

>>18875856
Peterson is incredibly ignorant. I've seen only one of his lectures, and he talked about Dante and Pinocchio. He didn't get one thing right. Basically american-kid-level of comprehension and interpretation. It's embarrassing that such illiterate people teach at universities, and I'm glad I live in Europe.

>>18875856
>hate
This is what dicklet incels call having their fandoms laughed at call it these days
Lobsterman is a failed college professor who makes bucks shilling self-help trash on YT
There's nothing intellectual about it, pseudo or not

>>18876125
There are no good universities in Europe

>>18876118
I couldn't care less about trannies or pronouns—if anything, railing against that is one of the more meaningful things he's done—I just think the man is cringe, and negatively affecting contemporary philosophy with his bullshit which he obviously hasn't researched. Also, being a "respected psychologist" is irrelevant, when a lot of his talks and lectures delve into topics completely external to psychology. He's a laughing stock, and a pseud of the highest order.

>>18876127
Still better than the American and Canadian ones.

>>18876129
You seem mad, maybe you should stop seething?

>>18875856
Yes, read Nathan J. Robinsons critique of him

>>18876056
>that we should call true whatever is therapeutic.
This isn't what he says at all.

>>18876126

He's not a failed college professor at all. In fact he literally did what all college professors wish they could do. That is grow out of being a professor and become an actually famous intellectual.

>>18876076
>it's curious he hasn't commented at length on 200 yrs together with Solzhenitsyn being one of his fav authors and all.
some madmen actually brought him a rogue translation of it at one of his events,

>>18876073
kek I love commie seethe
you immediately conflate his lectures with the zizek debate just so you can sperg out that he hasn't read the entire communist oeuvre
which is ALWAYS the 'argument regardless of how much anyone reads about marxism
and all of which is totally immaterial since 'muh gommunism' is less than 1% of what Peterson talks about
god you practically taste the impotent tears as this anon furious types the same banality seen a million times before, this time for sure defending the honor of marxism forever

I like Peterson, he is a great speaker and lecturer. Winston Churchill said that if you were to choose any great skill, you should choose oratory. Peterson is a great example of that, the """intellectuals""" can deride him but what he excels at is being an engaging and powerful speaker.

>>18876142
This guy?

>>18876203
lmaaaooo that guy can't even lift a heavy chair

>>18876216
Hes quite a man

>>18876226
Orwell talked about this type of socialist in Road to Wigan Pier.

>>18876132
Harvard, Yale, DeVry the list goes on...

>>18876127
Cope

>>18876216

>>18876261
he is legit, why cant you tolerate a touch of whimsy?

>>18875856
He writes self-help books for men. I've seen part of his speeches and he sounds like your average sociology TED speaker.

>>18875856
Leftists mostly hate him because he doesn't read about the subject he talks about.
I hate him because he makes the idiot that repeat him feel like they are backed up by science and logic, when in fact they aren't.

>>18876125
>It's embarrassing that such illiterate people teach at universities, and I'm glad I live in Europe
Is this ironic?

>>18875856
If it's the case that some leftists have an exaggerated view of how bad he is, it's still true that he's at bottom a milquetoast liberal who would've been recognized as a liberal in the 90s and the Bush years, and his views on Nietzsche and Christianity are superficially thought through.

>>18876105
>>18876118
Bros, you are both sort of correct. Peterson might well be a respected clinical psychologist, but that is beside the point, he is mainly ridiculed on the basis of his hilariously shallow understanding of the two concepts he criticises most vehemently in public: le "neo-Marxism" and the "postmodernists", often fusing these two largely incoherent frameworks with the straw man he keeps beating up in most of his public appearances, pre Zizek debate at least. Zizek has managed to call him out on this, which shook him to the core, resulting in him writing another 12 rules that now border on phenomenology (character development!) instead of the first 12 rules of his which was just a self help hackjob, mainly just him milking his 'father figure' persona put on him by his devout lost boys. He is not a pseud, he's a good lecturer that found a great paying gig in tapping the lack of a strict father figure and the unconscious resentment towards the idea of the postmodern neo-marxist and just rolled with it until the slovene sniff-man pulled the brakes.

He's mainly popular because he's the only one speaking anything remotely close to the truth in the sea of LGBT pronouns and leftist racism. I wanted to hate him because I was tired of seeing his face on 4chins all of the time. I finally watched some of his videos and it's really just common sense (equal opportunity is greater than equal opportunity, etc.). The most depressing part is he's considered far-right by the current political landscape all because he spoke out again the retarded narrative. That's why he is popular.

>>18876422
Half of these posts keep saying, "he only has surface level knowledge of X" which leads me to believe they've acquired this criticism from other sources (i.e. jealous college professors). Does anyone really have a "deep" understanding of these subjects? The material, in many cases, is ultimately subjective. Most of the backlash is probably created by limp dick college professors who are too frightened put any of their own works in the public view. These people technically never left school.

lots of massive retards ITT
go read books, faggots

>>18876542
>Does anyone really have a "deep" understanding of these subjects?
Isn't that a requirement to criticize something?

>>18876176
The only non-retarded part of this post is calling anon out on conflating Jordan's lectures with his debates, which really wasn't an important part of his take in the first place. The differences between the two Jordans are indeed instrumental in explaining him though. JBP in his lectures talks about concepts that are related to his field, psychology, psychoanalysis etc. where he is obviously knowledgeable. JBP in his debates, however, often struggles to summon this rather narrow expertise, and thus he is forced to include his personal prejudices to fully represent himself. As it happens, he isn't at all well enough read to properly formulate his arguments against this postmodern-neomarxist apparat he constructed in his head, as it was constructed not on the basis of a real vigilant assessment of the underlying frameworks, but rather as a surface level pattern-seeking exercise connecting the dots between retarded outlier behavior within blithering antifa tankies he saw on TV and the liberal LGBT victim-card-pulling activism he occasionally saw on campus, for example. I despise these commies as much as Zizek himself despises them. But you labeling that mediocre post commie seething is exactly the same reason peterson cannot debate Zizek, which I find funny. Read Kapital like I have, I can now say that I despise Marxists without being a retarded nigger like you.

>>18876600
People use this tactic to move the goal post all of the time. Oh you don't understand this part the way I do? You obviously don't have a deep understanding of the subject!

>>18876631
It's not an appeal to authority fallacy in this case since Peterson openly admitted to having only a surface level understanding of Marxist concepts in the Zizek debate. The man only read the Manifesto and never even touched das Kapital lmao. The source we get this from is straight from the horses mouth, unfortunately

>>18876167
based.

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson has never been defeated in an argument but yeah sure he's a "pseud".

>>18876609
>which really wasn't an important part of his take in the first place.
You are a bad sophist and/or liar. It was quite literally the central crux of the argument, I quote
> If you've watched any of Jordan Peterson's lectures or debates, which I'm sure you have because you're such a pathetic little homosexual sycophant, then you'd have noticed that he hasn't read, or he's read fairly little, of the things he's criticising. In the zizek debate, he openly admitted to not having read the central texts
That anon, probably you, was trying to suggest any/all of Peterson's lectures are dilettantism because they believe his views on Marxism are dilettantism.

Why don't you read "how to argue 101" then come back to try shitposting another time?

>>18876698
Fair enough, I can agree with you on that point. I only watched highlights of the bit because it's really hard to listen to Zizek (not an attack, he seems genuine). I still stand by my arguement in regards to the other criques though. People here are hardcore contrarians so it's their nature to hate anything popular.

>>18875856
No, he is a garden variety intellectual. He is knowledgeable in his field of clinical psychology. He is a complete tard or at best a midwit psued about areas of knowledge outside his specialization. This makes him the same as every other intellectual. Listen to his psychology related advice and treat the rest dubiously like some rando in a bar is giving you advice.

>>18876908
It's not important because he is plainly wrong, and he later reveals that he is really only talking about what I deemed the public persona of Peterson and not the psych 101 lecturer, thus his false equivalency should be laid bare and there'd be nothing else to say. I proceeded to explain the difference in my post to underline that, which you seem to have conveniently ignored all to... call me a bad sophist (maybe true) or a liar (I try not to be one). I guess I shouldn't have chopped the post up so much before sending, but they usually are bloated as fuck even for my standards so I can't help it, but it seems coherent enough.

Thing is, I just disagree with both of you because the first anon is half-wrong, and probably a faggot, but in my eyes you actually are retarded. How you read my post and got this out of it is fascinating to me. He misrepresents JBP just like you try to misrepresent the argument "at least read the actual one single book you want to criticise". I'm on the literature board so obviously I will not read any book you recommend me.

>>18876186
Am I supposed to rescue my father from that dick then?

>>18875856
I like Jordan Peterson. He's funny and made me more empathic. He is also a bit of a coward though. It's weird how he just dodges most criticism from religious people or the racist connotations from some of his ideas, when both of those things are so obvious. It's clear that his view of religion doesn't align with 99% of religious people, and if you suck Jewish cock because of IQ, then there are some implications as far as other racial groups go. He just weasel out of those.

>>18876261
Would you elaborate? Been thinking about reading it for a while…

self-help shill for the lost manchildren of the internet

>>18876176
>>and all of which is totally immaterial since 'muh gommunism' is less than 1% of what Peterson talks about
I'd say it's probably closer to like 5% Rika-anon, but you're relatively right none the less..

>>18876105
>Peterson is a laughing stock of contemporary intellegentsia, as well as all philosophical academy. He's only taken seriously by dickless virgin teenagers with daddy issues
He's one of the most academically cited psychologists alive, and was so before he got "internet famous". His talk on psychological concepts is definitely worthwhile, he talks about a lot of worthwhile research based on 'hard' data (as hard as you get in the social sciences anyway) about things like neuroticism or violence. His theories on Jungian archetypes are also interesting but never presented as academically rigorous so you can't really say anything negative there. You clearly have some kind of ideological agenda here so I advise you to find a way to present it better or kill yourself.

>>18875856
>What is it that make Jordan an intellectual or a fraud?
Medice, cura te ipsum, I can't possibly take seriously someone who becomes a self-help guru who also has a complete breakdown from his drug addiction at the same. I mean the guy spends his life around these drugs and still almost dies from them. It's quite pathetic at the end of the day. Both of his sad books written after the internet discovered him are cringeworthy garbage.

>>18876105
>identifying as Christian
As much of a Christian as you are a woman.

>>18877128
>I like Jordan Peterson. He's funny and made me more empathic. He is also a bit of a coward though. It's weird how he just dodges most criticism from religious people or the racist connotations from some of his ideas, when both of those things are so obvious. It's clear that his view of religion doesn't align with 99% of religious people, and if you suck Jewish cock because of IQ, then there are some implications as far as other racial groups go. He just weasel out of those.
>noooo why don't you commit career suicide, this makes you a fraud!
When you grow up anon you'll realize there are certain things you just can't say in public. That doesn't mean they aren't true.

>>18877031
Give some specifics. Everyone keeps saying he's an idiot and doesn't know anything yet I rarely see anyone present any concrete examples. They mostly attack his opinions which is obviously easy to do.

Go ahead, present some examples that YOU found. Not some opinion from a dickless Yale professor with no experience outside of academia. Even if you are able, you'll be met with same mob ignorance and strawmanning tactics all of the intellectual faggots use and then maybe you'll understand.

>>18875856
yes, and if that isn't clear to you after being exposed to him for half a hour you are hopeless

>>18876002
Wonderful world where Muslims and LGBT are lumped into the same group

>>18877162
>JP simp
>can't say the truth

>>18877627
the memes truly write themselves

>>18876002
>consitution
Do libs not know how to use spell check?

>>18876056
>the virgin eloquent poster
>>18876073
>the chad raving ranter

>>18875856
he is an impostor whose objective is to demoralize and misguide.

>>18876105
>holding sociology in a positive light
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOF!

It’s anti-intellectualism.

>>18876076
Solzh is a kike.

>>18875856
He has become a celebrity so idiots want to know his opinion outside his field of expertise.
He is a self important drug user so he thinks his opinion outside of his field of expertise amounts to anything.

ONLY READ SCHOLARS OPINIONS INSIDE THEIR FIELD OF EXPERTISE

Foucault does history of ideas not history
Zizek does psychoanalysis and literary (including film) criticism
Peterson does bennies

He really has little idea about the stuff he's talking about. But somehow he keep appearing in talk shows and shit where he gets to discuss with twitter journalists and similar people and surprise they are even more stupid, making him look smart in the process.

His complaint about "post modernist cultural marxism" is absurd, what the fuck is that even supposed to be? He's using so many words he does not understand.

Peterson would be so much more coherent if he just fucking converted to Christianity. Stop fucking flirting with it and embrace it.

>>18875856
>What is it that make Jordan an intellectual or a fraud?
As a long, long time fan I can honestly say that it's the odd way in which he abandons precision after he gets to a certain point.

He was very precise about calling out self-identified neo-marxists who uses postmodern tools in their rhetorics. And he naturally named them post-modern neomarxists, tacitly admitting that the label is an oxymoron, but that the group's existence isn't at all bothered by it. A couple years later he appears in videos like "The Marxist Lie of White Privilege".... really? We're acting like sociological privilege is a lie now?
Similarly with his take on theism. His "depends on what you mean by God" is an infamous cope because although a VERY appropriate question in the beginning stages, it now only muddies up the waters so he can swim in them like he finds best. Not best in case of self-interest, maybe he's being really genuine about how he lives, but "depends on what you mean" is the exact opposite of the precision he aspires to.

>>18878046
See above, he usually brings up postmodern neomarxists when talking about self-identified neomarxists who use postmodern method. The term "cultural marxism" is left's own creation. See a post I saved from a well read Anon:
>The more important point is that actual left wingers actually used the term "Cultural Marxism" to refer to their own ideology. Specific examples are Richard R. Weiner's 1981 book 'Cultural Marxism and Political Sociology', 'Cultural Marxism in Postwar Britain', by Dennis Dworkin, 'Conversations on Cultural Marxism', by Fredric Jameson, and 'Cultural Marxism and Cultural Studies' by Professor Douglas Kellner. And its important to note that Jameson and Douglas Kellner literally made their career on being Cultural Marxist who studied and teach The Frankfurter Schools brand of Marxism. So if the left wing argument is that 'Cultural Marxism' is a term created by the nazi and used by far right conspiracy theorist today, this is just factually wrong considering the number of Frankfurt School theorist who have used the term to describe their own ideas.

>>18875856
Preface: I have not read a single Peterson book.

I was introduced to Peterson by his commentaries on the Bible on youtube. It's pretty fucking long but it's fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQD_IZs7y60I3lUrrFTzkpat

The dude clearly knows his bible and has an interesting interpretation of it. He's been a Bible scholar for a while.The only comparison I can make is to Daniel Quinn... they have very similar interpretations of the creation myth but come to very different conclusions.

All that being said... it's pretty clear that the fame went to his head after he went viral. He picked up some pretty stupid fans in the alt right and MGTOW scenes and now he's an authority to them even though the arguments he's making on non-bible subjects are pretty paper thin (from what I've seen). He's an intellectual about the Bible and psuedointellectual about everything else, as far as I'm concerned..

>>18878041
Unless you're teaching a specific subject, there's no such thing as expertise. Your ideas are either fashionable or not. That's the only metric that really matter when it comes to whom is considered an expert or not.

>>18879016
He's hated by the alt-right and the sentiment seems to be mutual.

>>18875856
always has been.jpg

>>18876002
>community safety post
i've met these kinds of people. i was one. absolute garbage

>>18875856
He's a glorified self help guru who just makes up a lot of stuff and gamers think he's a :philosopher" because they're kids and they don't read.

>>18875856
Since the revelation of his drug addiction he lost all relevance, I tried watching one of his recent videos, I nearly puked when I saw drug addict giving fucking life advice. Posting him on /lit/ should be bannable offence

>>18875856
I just find it funny that majority of his target audience e.g. the people who buy his books, those who watch his youtube videos and those who attend his public talks are mostly young adult men. The things he focuses on seem to attract that section of the crowd particularly and even when you see him give speeches outside his university he works at you see these young adults and theyre are the epitome of weak male incel vibes. Peterson is essentially a role model/father figure to them in their journey to try be something they will never be.

>>18879590
Young adults have impressionable brains so no wonder hes trying to cash in on their desperation for an role model.

>>18875856
OP it's really quite simple. Just go read Maps of Meaning for a little while and come back and tell us all what you think.

>>18875856
>Is Jordan Peterson a pseudointellectual?
How dare you?

>>18875856
>Some complain because they don't like his views on Marxist ideology
Yeah and where will Marx be in 20 years. Nowhere. On the other hand, Jordan Peterson would be reminded as the greatest mind of our generation.

>>18880000
Greatest benzo user of our generation

>>18880009
Greatest philosopher, greatest intellectual, greatest IQ, greatest life coach, greatest charisma, greatest intelligence.

>>18876105
Literally nobody in any serious field cares about zikek

>>18880508
Yes, le zizi de zizek.

>>18880508
Well, at least he has read Marx and Hegel, before talking about it, hasn't he?

>>18880537
>Peterson has read Marx
>nooooooooooo Marx isn't enough, you need to read this entire list of obfuscatory frauds before you can say 1 word about based communism!
>at least Zizek has read Marx!
Typical tranny cope and seethe I see.

I wish I had a father like Jordan Peterson.

>>18875856
Yes:
https://youtu.be/cU1LhcEh8Ms
https://youtu.be/V2hhrUHSD6o

>>18879024
This. Academia is full of pseuds, but as long as you're in the right side of history™ your lack of rigurosity will be praised as a heterodox thinking and you will get articles written about your radical new readings of old philosophers. Peterson views, with all their many flaws, don't have more holes in them than the ones from Butler or Appiah. The only difference is that Peterson's ideas aren't hip nowadays. Twenty years ago he would have been loved by the same kind of redditors who hate him now and, ironically, if Buttler is still around in twenty years, she will be criticized as a quasi-terf by the same people who now hold her as an authority, which is starting to happen already in some niche trans communities, who may not be too big now, but will be the status quo in two decades. That's how progress goes. No one knows shit.

>>18875856
He's fine.
Both worshipping him as a God given intellect and abusing him as a pseudo-intellectual retard are too extreme.

Thank you Jordan Peterson. I now realize that feminism is a defunct ideology and there is no need for women empowerment anymore.
As seen in the situation of Blizzard entertainment, the sexual harassment and discrimination based on my group identity as a woman would all stop if women just stop being agreeable.
So the next time I am denied promotions due to fears of my maternity, or someone gropes me in the club, its because I'm too agreeable. There's no need to unionize to prevent sexual harassment because any kind of collective action is Marxism.

After all, we all live in a utopian world where I am truly treated like an individual and not discriminated based on what I look like.

>>18881528
Bad bait. You made it too obvious by mentioning Blizzard, which is full of male feminists AKA rapists.

>>18875856
Zizek fucking destroyed him

>>18875856
nah, he's a legit credentialed intellectual. his problem is he made his jung hobby into a career, and he doesn't know how to deal with fame and money. it's nearly killed him, and made him a much less likeable guy in fancy suits and erudite poses instead of the workingman professor of six years ago.

>>18876261
gd vegan cranks

>>18875856
He is a rite of passage, not that bright but a good introduction to a lot of good stuff. You don't need to read him and obsess about what he says because he is in no way that good, just watch his youtube compilations for shits and giggles then read some books that he wants you to read that are not his, and then realize they're not that great and move forward.

>>18881739
I would agree with this. I was a big Peterson simp but after the Zizek debate I saw him as an intellectual fraud.

>>18876293
>why cant you tolerate a touch of whimsy?