/lit/ - Literature

>>19174454
destiny will get his young followers to take the covid vaccine thus killing them all

twitter is unironically best place for racial insight

>>19174454
Menexenus by Plato.

>>19174454

>>19174454
>Are there any bearable, non-preachy books that examine the phenomenon of racism from a social and biological perspective?

Your primary issue is that you've accepted the word "Racism" from the framing of the left. The word is a propaganda term invented by ideologues. In-group preference is a natural state, seen in newborn babies, and the preference to be among the genetically-similar is fine across all human populations and within the animal kingdom (and I suspect within other kingdoms of life as well). Do not accept the word, do not fall for the ideological frame that in-group preference is "bad" - this is a mutated, puritanical mutation of Christianity called secular humanism. They have their own gods, their own sins, and their own rituals. They're the dominant religion now, but won't be forever.

>>19174454
I would also like to add that my racism is rooted, at least partially, in the idea that my ancestors belonged to X group and I therefore have an obligation to X group. Currently it feels like intermarrying (thus altering the ethnic/racial composition of my heritage) would be a kind of murder-suicide. With one decision I would be drastically altering the chain on which I am but a single link AND reducing the total number of X group ("my" group). I don't want to feel this way but I can't help it. I know it's ahistorical (as in my ancestors probably didn't feel this way or think of themselves as part of a biological racial group) but I can't shake it. I would much rather discard my racial affiliation and focus solely on individuals.
>Daquan is cool and smart so he can be my friend :)
>Priya is beautiful and interesting so she can be my wife :)
>My children are racially a little different from my but that's okay because I love them and their mother more than anything :)
Am I doomed to autistically categorize people and thereby limit my potential well-being?
>>19174462
retard
>>19174487
>In-group preference is a natural state
Sure, but does it have to be? People from different racial/ethnic groups are perfectly capable of getting along and thriving. Just because it doesn't ALWAYS happen doesn't mean it CAN'T happen.

>>19174487
Also please remind yourself that the concept is less that 100 years old.

> racism (n.)
> by 1928, in common use from 1935, originally in a European context, "racial supremacy as a doctrine, the theory that human characteristics and abilities are determined by race;" see racist, and compare the various senses in race (n.2) and racialism. Applied to American social systems from late 1930s.

In comparison, homo sapiens have been around for at least 300,000 years

>>19174454
>social and biological perspective

>>19174500
What's wrong with my phrasing? Are there not both social and biological aspects of race?

>>19174491
>>In-group preference is a natural state
>Sure, but does it have to be?
My point is that your instincts prefer you to be around your own kind, and the feelings you have are not inherently evil.
I do think your "loyalty" to your ancestors is foolish, so my view is nuanced (I guess, since everyone is so insane now). My argument is that you should feel no shame and also no loyalty to a spook such as long-dead self-interested ancestors who you are fractionally related to. I am not a white nationalist or anything like that, I just think preferring similar people is natural and fine. We naturally segregate ourselves and idiots keep trying to force even mixture in every context.

>>19174491
hahahahaha good luck with that dumbass your government cares about youuuu

also it's clear you are unable to empathize with what righty thinks. don't feel bad, this is standard leftoid operating procedure

>>19174491
>With one decision I would be drastically altering the chain on which I am but a single link AND reducing the total number of X group ("my" group).
Read The Selfish Gene and The Extended Phenotype.

>>19174518
>I just think preferring similar people is natural and fine. We naturally segregate ourselves and idiots keep trying to force even mixture in every context.
This seems to be true. All I'm suggesting is that perhaps I (as in individual, not as a member of a racial group) would see better life-outcomes if I were to "segregate" on the basis of individual characteristics rather than perceived racial characteristics.
>>19174519
>also it's clear you are unable to empathize with what righty thinks
Well I think it's pretty clear that I'm not a leftist. How many leftists would freely admit to harbouring notions of racial legacy and duty? Few.
>>19174523
>The Selfish Gene
>The Extended Phenotype
Will investigate. Thank you.

>>19174454
hateful thoughts are always benefitioal to one's life, i say you erase that
>(privately)
off your mind

>>19174491
>People from different racial/ethnic groups are perfectly capable of getting along and thriving.
Maybe some races. For example, Indians and Blacks or Whites and Asians or Asians and Blacks can live in harmony. Others I’m not so sure. Whites and Blacks, for example, are races I feel can never live in harmony. There is too much history there. I think these two races will always hate and/or fear one another.

>>19174542
>"segregate" on the basis of individual characteristics rather than perceived racial characteristics
You can do what you want, but remember this situation we find ourselves in, this "diverse" world, is the result of a religious crusade that has no basis in reality. You can attempt to overcome your uncomfortable, unconscious desires - like a straight man sucking another man's dick to prove he's not a "homophobe" if that's what makes you feel good. But don't forget how ridiculous it all is, and don't forget that others may feel their racial preference even more strongly than yourself, and are engaging in intentional deception to exploit your egalitarianism. I can tell you want to believe in the false gods of secular humanism. The pressure to convert is strong these days.
Side note: consuder who benefits from this, which is global corporations looking for cheap labor unavailable from European immigrants. The religion is supported by the state because the state is owned by international corporations.
Side note 2: consider the end result of a diverse population that overcomes inherent in-group preference: a new homogenous mass, or endless racial struggles and complaints such as Brazil.
Do what is best for yourself but feel no guilt in your instincts, that is my opinion

>>19174552
>Asians and Blacks

Yeah, okay.

>>19174454
First, define "racism". Leftists routinely change the definition when confronted. So let's first establish a clear definition before we continue.

>>19174552
Asians and blacks don't get along at all, but in the US they have a sort of tentative alliance to bring down the Euro-american part of the population.

>>19174491
>People from different racial/ethnic groups are perfectly capable of getting along and thriving
No they aren't. Why would you think forcing this is admirable? What you are saying is that people can freely associate - OK that's fine, but how do you justify what is going on in the West with e.g. forced demographic replacement and serious legal repercussions for anyone who questions it?

>>19174552
>Indians and Blacks can get along
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Look anon you're clearly Amerishart. Those "Indians" get along with anyone that first takes down White hegemony in America. After the Hegemony is destroyed, they'll turn on the next one, rinse repeat.

>>19174594
I would say something like "the arbitrary assessment of individuals on the basis of perceived group-wide traits".
>>19174603
In the right context they absolutely are. If we took 100 people from each of the major "races" and had them colonize an uninhabited island I bet, with the right support, they would do fine.

>>19174505
I was just memeing that social and biological reasons can't answer your question.
>>/lit/thread/S17671027

Tocqueville summed up the problem of race early on, and to make this shorter Junger's quote is helpful:
"If one wants to hold on to the word "race", then one must understand it as the expression of the form. It shapes the type through the ethnic strata.

If the worker were to perceive himself as a race in the old sense, a stable empire could be the result. But the struggle breaks out within the highest representations of the figure of the worker. This is the basis of progress and its rapidity.

The transformation is preceded by the erosion of old layers. The Negro with the wristwatch. His barbarism now becomes visible, as if little talismans were attached to him."
- Jünger

>>19174610
>"the arbitrary assessment of individuals on the basis of perceived group-wide traits
OK. So assessing an individual due to some group related affiliation. And in what way is this wrong? People belong to groups. Even within racial groups there is ethnicity, etc. Of course, individuals may or may not have any relation with their over-arching culture, religion, etc but suggesting that this is the "norm" for all people is ridiculous. No matter where you go, there are group norms. I don't see how this is a negative value in recognizing them. If anything, choosing to ignore they exist is not only naive but highly destructive.
> had them colonize an uninhabited island I bet, with the right support, they would do fine
I am wary of suppositions like this because they rely on far too many unknowns. Furthermore you are also largely assuming group identities are strictly related to race, ethnicity, religion, etc. There are many layers to this.

>>19174610
>arbitrary
no

>>19174454
You will be fine. There is no reason you can't be friends with someone from another race - unless the whole world is against you. Race is an important aspect of reality and those who allow miscegenation will make their grandparents cry. But there are other qualities that determine a man's stature.

>>19174612
What does this mean? It is much the same as the problem of free will. The racist generally does not want to acknowledge sameness, yet the idea of difference in the races depends on it. If man is made in a single image, by God, then it is not his physical and biological features which make him, they are only the barest reflections of creation. What is more significant, in terms of strength, beauty, law, etc., is what he makes of this creation, the free will he exerts together as a people, his unification with the land and constitution which helps him overcome it. In other words, man is not only created by the land, his nation, the word of God, and so on, but he also carries these powers with him. They make each other in turn, and thus race is like the sculpture being cut out of stone, already there as a mass but requiring a perfect vision to make whole. In this sense, a divine concept of race is as much a removal of excess, of the muck of creation which God includes in the world as a test.

It should be obvious that biological conceptions of race never get to this core, and like the eyes of a geologist or technician can only think of the chemical and mineral consitution of stone - or perhaps simply blowing it up.
It is no mistake that biological conceptions of race come about at that moment in European history begins to lose all of its own distinction and so must find it elsewhere. The dialects of the peasants take on a noble character which must be destroyed by the new technical race of man.
Seen from this perspective the biological conception of race sees the inferior races much in the same way as those old classes and aristocrats who had to be wiped out by revolutionas and national wars.

The truth hurts

Read about African or black American history

>>19174688
>posting a kafka trap

Yikes.

>>19174688
Literally just "original sin" and a convenient opportunity for HR

>Well I think it's pretty clear that I'm not a leftist.
pretty clear you're a god damn faggot

You will be fine as long as you don't project the traits of a group on people you meet.

>>19174693
>>19174688
kafka poster. opinion discared.

>>19174720
Dilate

how often do you talk to people of other races? i find that friendly conversation usually breaks down all my preconceived notions

I am harassed by non-whites now and then, how am I supposed to not hate them. actual west africans are pretty cool tho.

>>19174686
One can also look to Hitler's destruction of the aristocracy, and his preference for military technicians rather than officers. This was a final gutting of the old races in the last European state, and here racialists concepts only appear from the negative, as the shell of man in world survival.
Something similar may be seen even in the controversies over languages, or the font controversies. Hitler and others insisted on the destruction of German typefaces for the purpose of propaganda and appeal to the wider European and world race.
Thus the gutting of typeface, of language, is an image of the stripped down, technical conceptions of race which only see man as useful in the machine construction of the world.
Physiognomy follows the same rules, outward appearances, the facade of man rather than his character and essence.
At another level one sees why conservatives and reactionaries would start to identify with foreign powers: Islamist law or Chinese totalitarianism. But this too is mostly only a surface. It is telling that the Russian efforts in the struggle for world power receive far less attention.

>>19174612
"As soon as it is admitted that the whites and the emancipated blacks are placed upon the same territory in the situation of two alien communities, it will readily be understood that there are but two alternatives for the future; the negroes and the whites must either wholly part or wholly mingle. I have already expressed the conviction which I entertain as to the latter event. I do not imagine that the white and black races will ever live in any country upon an equal footing. But I believe the difficulty to be still greater in the United States than elsewhere. An isolated individual may surmount the prejudices of religion, of his country, or of his race, and if this individual is a king he may effect surprising changes in society; but a whole people cannot rise, as it were, above itself. A despot who should subject the Americans and their former slaves to the same yoke, might perhaps succeed in commingling their races; but as long as the American democracy remains at the head of affairs, no one will undertake so difficult a task; and it may be foreseen that the freer the white population of the United States becomes, the more isolated will it remain. "

(Can't remember if this quote directly follows.)

"If I were called upon to predict what will probably occur at some future time, I should say, that the abolition of slavery in the South will, in the common course of things, increase the repugnance of the white population for the men of color. I found this opinion upon the analogous observation which I already had occasion to make in the North. I there remarked that the white inhabitants of the North avoid the negroes with increasing care, in proportion as the legal barriers of separation are removed by the legislature; and why should not the same result take place in the South? In the North, the whites are deterred from intermingling with the blacks by the fear of an imaginary danger; in the South, where the danger would be real, I cannot imagine that the fear would be less general."

>>19174686
Here we are a Christian outlining the secular humanist template. Just add science™ and you will be absolved

>>19174491
>>In-group preference is a natural state
>Sure, but does it have to be?
Do you understand what “natural state” means? It’s a fundamental aspect of how evolutionary success functions, not a societal construct.

>>19174688
It's a repetitive book - Lee Atwater's interview on the Southern Strategy, than listicles of examples to satisfy the observation that material inequality between whites and PoC constitutes a sufficient condition for the existence of racism following power+prejudice rhetoric. Note that in picrel, DiAngelo instantly attributed Joan's fear of leaving the house to being in a black neighborhood. Implicit is the assumption and acknowledgement that black neighborhoods are dangerous.
>This is the entire book.

>>19174778
What?

>>19174588
>>19174599
>>19174608
I am not saying these groups currently get along, but they could. I was contrasting them to groups which will simply never get along, like Whites and Blacks, or Hindus and Muslims, or Israelis and Palestinians, etc. I like to think everyone can get along, but there are groups which due to historical tensions and conflict will never get along.

>>19174778
>outlining the secular humanist template
It's the opposite you retard.

>>19174487
>it's natural!
Doesn't mean it's morally good, or factually correct, or beneficial in a material sense...
Try reading the OP instead of pulling up pre-made answers.

>>19174787
I mean rape is a 'natural state' and evolutionarily beneficial, but it's also a net negative for society and can be lived without.

>>19174887
> in-group preference is rape!
purity spiral

>>19174814
*template FOR secular humanism

>>19174454
Fields & Fields, "Racecraft".
Also Frantz Fanon's work so you have an understanding of post colonial thought

>>19174938
How is a critique of biological race secular humanist?

>>19174983
"I love the simple elegance with which they hammer home that race is a monstrous fiction, racism is a monstrous crime." —Junot Díaz

>>19174930
>should I actually engage with the counterargument?
>nah
>should I at least pretend to engage with it?
>nah
No wonder you keep losing lmao.

what kind of anon uses ecelebrities as their image descriptor for their post? is OP a faggot?

>>19174467
KYS

>>19174686
Good post.

>>19174792
I never understood how a book like this gains popularity besides appealing to the lowest common denominator in terms of midwitism. Beyond the use of the grossly outdated "racism = prejudice + power" even many Leftists are now starting to recant due to its complete glossing over of how group dynamics function, it is incredible that statements such as:
>"works are virtually all white because people of color just don't apply"
can actually ring out as some kind of wise remark to people.

>>19174491
The solution isn’t extending your in group to everyone, but shrinking your in group to your family. At that point everyone else is equally an outsider.

>>19174454
>books about
There is only one thing that really separates people, ability to function. And you, sonny, are on the losing end. You are pathetic, stupid, and inept, and OT-posting here won't change that

>>19175190
Umm anon? Did you just commit a micro-aggression towards my family?

I'm SO going to blood-feud you now, like, you DONT EVEN KNOW.

>>19174787
>natural state
Our 'natural state' is living similar to chimps, in small kinship groups out in nature
And you are a mongoloid, nothing you do today outside of eat and shit, is 'natural'

>>19175093

Losing what? I don't care about politics, culture, or the future. You can keep trying to "win" as I have no idea what you are implying and, to repeat myself, do not care

>>19175905
>let me show you how much I don't care by replying
>and by entering the discussion in the first place
>and by repeating how I don't care
Captcha: Y RANT

>>19174843
Morals are 100% subjective.

>>19174552
Every race hates blacks. It's a fact.

>>19176001
Never argued for or against that, it's irrelevant to the point.
Again, read instead of copypasting premade replies.