/lit/ - Literature

I found some free lecture series by some bloke on Latin and greek meter

https://antigonejournal.com/2021/05/introduction-greek-latin-metre/

I've lost confidence in my textbook so I'm ignoring grammar for now and memorizing the Sanzijing.

>>19446607
>One day Cosima finds him reading Sophocles Oedipus and checking the translation against the original Greek. 'It is a torrent of beauty,' he says, 'now vanished forever: we are barbarians.'
>'Homer really was the poetic par excellence, the source of all poetic art, the true creator'

Updates so far on the Biblical Hebrew:
>I am stupid
>Nevertheless the alphabet isn't hard to learn (literally used children's flash games)
>Nikkud aren't hard to learn
>Drilling 680~ most frequent words anki deck
>Bought Zondervan faux leather A Reader's Hebrew Bible (it's really nice and weighty and feels important)
>Actually learning to conjugate and to take apart compounded+conjugated forms is a whole other ball game

This is fun because my expectations are so low

>>19446869
Very cool, keep us updated! I would be especially interested in how it compares to other classical languages in difficulty, if you know any.

I found this image that compares the vocabulary sizes of the different books, maybe it's helpful to you in deciding which one to tackle first.

Salvete omnes! Quomodo vos hodie habetis? Legitis aliquid momenti vel gaudii? Equidem librum "Americana Latine" nomine lego, qui liber scripta ex historia Americae septentrionalis (praesertim Civitatum Foederatarum et coloniarum Europaearum quae praevenerunt) varia Latina continet. Ceterum spero, libro quem alii sine nominibus in /clg/ priore mihi commendaverunt, Athenaze nomine, utens, studium linguae Graecae antiquae mox incipere.

>>19447714
>alii sine nominibus in /clg/
Ūsum vocābulī Latīnī 'Anōnymus' (sīve 'Anōnymos') nōn tam barbarum esse arbitrō.

>>19446607
liquenda tellus et domus et placens
uxor, neque harum quas colis arborum
te praeter invisas cupressos
ulla brevem dominum sequetur.

Tears down my face lads. Latin lyric poetry mogs all others.

do we have a latin guide? I want to start now so I can teach my children in 5 years or so

>>19447977
There is one, but it's not very good. Just read LLPSI and supplements. Some people here don't like it, but the guide also recommends LLPSI.

>>19448012
To be clear, the schedule I posted is not the guide.

Hoc fīlum sōlum causa est dē quā hūc reveniō.

Is it worth using a textbook that says that Ancient Greek tone marks aren't worth learning?

>>19448627
Well, they aren't really worth learning unless you're going to recite it in some reconstructed way.

>>19448627
Does the Greek in the book contain the marks, at least? I would just ignore its advice then. Otherwise toss it.

(I don't know any Greek, only some Latin, and there I would give the same advice if a book argues against learning vowel lengths.)

>>19448627
there are a few instances where the accent mark determines the meaning of the word. if you are serious about learning greek I would suggest you learn the rules. it's not like that's the hardest part of greek grammar

>>19449200
tones arent grammar

Latin err yeah cool but anyone this is now a Gaelic general.

>>19449727
In Latin, "venit" means "he comes", but "vēnit" means he came. Like in English with "he read", but much more common.

>>19448670
>>19449200
The specific book is "Teach Yourself Greek" BTW. The really old one.

salvete, fratres

>>19446607
> Sappho_fresco.jpg
OP id nōn dīxisse sciō et fortasse nōmen orīginālis fuerat cum imāginem servābat, sed ea fēmina Sapphō nōn est.

This is Greek, and how they spelt her
Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta,
Epsilon, Zeta,
Eta, Theta,
Then Iota, Kappa too,
Followed up by Lambda, Mu,
Nu, Xi,
Omikron, Pi,
After that, Rho, Sigma, Tau,
Upsilon, Phi, and still three more,
Chi, Psi, and Omega's twenty-four.

>>19449768
>OP id nōn dīxisse sciō
what does this mean? i can understand the rest of what you said but not this
>et fortasse nōmen orīginālis fuerat cum imāginem servābat, sed ea fēmina Sapphō nōn est.
and perhaps it was the name of the original when the picture was saved but this(?) woman is not Sappho
>sed ea fēmina Sapphō nōn est.
shouldn't this be:
>sed haec femina Sappho non est
or
>sed illa femina Sappho non est
?

sorry i'm still learning (LLPSI)

>>19449813
> i'm still learning
Me too, so it's possible that this isn't idiomatic at all.

>>OP id nōn dīxisse sciō
> what does this mean?
"I know that OP didn't say it,"

> and perhaps it was the name of the original when the picture was saved but this(?) woman is not Sappho
Right, and "illa" would probably have been better, but I think the Latin "haec" and "illa" is like the English "this" and "that", so in abstract cases like this one there shouldn't be that much of a difference.

Unum meorum delectamentorum est translatio exemplum-pastarum.
Praesens ego laboro cum hoc:

CONSORTE ego tantum AMO turbas properasque magnae urbis, est tot ENERGETICA et facit me sentire sicut essem in uno ex meis praelatis EMISSIONIBUS TELEVISIONIS. Decet te certe venire ad monodiaetum meum, quo sunt PARIETES EXPOSITORUM LATERICIORUM RUBRORUM et cetera. possumus aperire unam cervesiam amaram Indiae vel tres et facti sumus rabides vigilatum designationes cartas!

honhonhon

>>19446607
>Why yes, I am learning to read Ottoman Turkish

i did it

Cessassu sendon regon, butis viros tennis.
Aggostus cecessasst meon, marvassu ein.
Coudassu endo movo vologon.

>>19450812
Which language?

Salvete sodales, fabulam bellam vobis narrare volo.

Olim, mater tua in horto erat et multas flores capiebat. Quum sine toga esset, nuda erat. Mentula mea in vagina eius cum facilitate misi quod tam larga umidaque erat.

Gratis vobis ago!

I’m making my way through Roma Aeterna. I finished Familia Romana several years ago but gave up because RA was extremely daunting. Now I have almost all the vocab in an anki deck (will upload) and I’m reading through metamorphoses. My biggest achievement lately has been getting high and realizing that I’ve been focusing too much on grammar. On the oppression-freeing HASHISH I was able to follow each word—especially in the beginning of Metamorphoses—and FEELING it. Tips on how to keep this immersion?

>>19451786
Unironically, read a translation along with the original. It can be line by line or story by story. Something you'll have to realize is that some words are not worth commiting to memory because Ovid uses it once and then never again throughout his entire opus. If aynthing, commit to memory choice selections or stories that delight you and just get carried with a translation. There is no shame in it. As long as you have the grammar down, the scholars from days gone by will hold your hand through the experience as you try your best to comprehend the original. At some point, the translations will no longer be necessary given that you have gone over it many times, which is the goal: to reread.
t. Montainge

>>19451821
Bless you anon. I’m excited to do this tomorrow

>>19449813
Another error: "nomen" is neuter, so it should go with "originale", not "originalis".

>>19446869
Good resources for BA/BH are CAL, STEP Bible, 2 Letter lookup (has Gesenius and Jastrow baked into it), and Strong's numbers via blue letter Bible.

>>19452475
>>19446869
I almost forgot. I really find writing out vocab and verb paradigms helps a lot, not flascards. Be sure to use a pen and to take up two lines in of a college ruled notebook per one line of Hebrew so you can get the pointing in comfortable. I also suggest a pen, fountain or something wetter than a Bic, because it makes pointing easier as well. Chanting paradigms helps too.

>>19447584
Thanks bro, I'll post updates on my progress if there is any. So far still feeling like I've been inducted into arcane mysteries because I can read a few lines.

I wonder what word variety is a function of, aside from obvious things like repetitive prose vs. poetry? Could the time the text was written have a big impact?

>>19452489
>>19452475
Thanks to you as well. I will note these and check them out. Do you have any advice for trying to get the maximum bang for my buck when it comes learning just enough initial grammar to enjoy reading a page or passage here and there, as a prelude to more serious study? For instance could I get a surprising amount just by memorizing some copula conjugations and a few key words as vocabulary instead of learning conjugations the hard way just yet? Looking at the verb system is giving me a panic attack still.

>>19451690
Proto-gaelic

>>19452548
>Do you have any advice for trying to get the maximum bang for my buck when it comes learning just enough initial grammar to enjoy reading a page or passage here and there, as a prelude to more serious study?
Sorry for the late reply. I saw your message right after you sent it but forgot to reply.
Yes, I do have a suggestion. STEP and CAL (CAL is not for your purposes atm) are great ways to read texts. Hebrew syntax is super easy, most of the time. That shouldn't be a problem. The tough part about Hebrew (I also mean Aramaic when saying Hebrew) is new vocab and identifying verb forms (shoresh and binyan). With something like STEP (all the canonical stuff), you can read the English and Hebrew, or any other language, including Pidgin, side-by-side. And when you come across a tricky word, simply click on the colored text for a translation. You'll probably find yourself doing that lots and lots, but you will also find yourself going through a chapter in no time. If you want more information than STEP gives you, you can Google the Strong's number it provides, most likely finding Blue Letter Bible, or you can look it up in 2-Letter Lookup. Hebrew can be tough at times, but it can also be relaxing and rewarding:
"He calls"
Who calls?
"God calls"
Who does he call?
"Moses"
Full sentence = God calls Moses.
Ahhhhh. It's very satisfying. I will also say this. Grammar can vary chapter to chapter, even within chapters, and certainly from book to book. As such, you can't really prepare for a specific passage beyond learning some vocab. However, even that isn't necessary. The one thing you might want to have next to you is pic rel (I have a better one on my PC if you want) or something and an understanding of how all those function, which your textbook will teach you. This last part is the most important, so I will repeat. Learn how to identify the binyans and how they work. Learning how to identifying shoreshes is important too, but STEP can help out with that. Tl;Dr = use STEP and have pic rel next to you with a good understanding of it to start reading the Bible today.
If you don't understand something in this comment, I am happy to try to clarify it for you.

>>19452025
Rēctē dīcis.

>>19451754
you could probably recite this to normies and shill it as Vergil's poem

>>19453234
> (I also mean Aramaic when saying Hebrew)
YOU! You are the guy I was waiting for in the old thread:
> But I would love to hear from someone who actually knows Hebrew, how difficult, say, Maimonides' Mishneh Torah would be if one only knows Biblical.
Can you please tell me about how big the difference between the Hebrew in the OT and the Hebrew in the Talmud or the Mishneh Torah is, if you ever tried to read those. Would someone with a good grasp of the OT be able to comfortably read those, or would he need to cram additional lessons?

>>19453294
Might as well just say Catullus, so that even expert will have to look it up to debunk it.

Vellem modo obloqui. Romanos uti nuncupatis dividuntur vero inter Patres pl*bemque, sive, uti nuper appellare consuevi, Quirites hominesque novos. Populus vero Romanus non ex una quidem stirpe exoritur, sed immo una ex re publica a Patribus condita auctaque, sine quibus Roma non condita esset.

Nonnulli barbari cotidie primos cum aliis confundunt inscientes. Casu factum est uti Patres plerumque "Romani" appellantur, atque nonnulli Italiae socii nesciunt esse Patres, stirpem Romuleam Troianamque.

Est sane pl*bs Romana, at Patres in iis non habentur. Sunt enim dissimiles, ex genere et regio et maxime antiquo. Cuicumque hoc intelligendum est.

I've been studying Latin for 2 years now and I'm still absolutely clueless. I can't write like this guy >>19454234 and I can't read anything above a basic level. God, I feel like crying. If this continues, I'm giving up

>>19454417
> I can't read anything above a basic level
Quid tibi hoc esse vidētur? Liber Caesarī, aut opera discipulī linguae? Ipse hōc annō tantum Latīnē discere coepī atque mē partem Commentāriī mox lēctūrum esse spērō.
> If this continues, I'm giving up
Illud nōn dīc, nōs omnēs id faciēmus.

>>19453234
> (I also mean Aramaic when saying Hebrew)
YOU! You are the guy I was waiting for in the old thread:
> But I would love to hear from someone who actually knows Hebrew, how difficult, say, Maimonides' Mishneh Torah would be if one only knows Biblical.
Can you please tell me about how big the difference between the Hebrew in the OT and the Hebrew in the Talmud or the Mishneh Torah is, if you ever tried to read those. Would someone with a good grasp of the OT be able to comfortably read those, or would he need to cram additional lessons?
First of all, most of Maimonides is in Judaeo-Arabic. I have no clue on how to read that. Some of his writings are in Hebrew (from Wikipedia). When first composing this reply, I suspected Wikipedia got Aramaic confused with Hebrew, which is common. But no, there's Mishnaic Hebrew, something I am not familiar with. As you can tell, I am not Jewish myself nor have I had Jewish professors (1 out of the 2 sort-of converted) I have never read Maimonides in either Hebrew or English; I've only looked at certain quotes, paraphrases, and summaries of him, so I can't comment on difficulty there. I was looking into this subject a few weeks ago to see if I could read hid works but stopped when I saw the Judaeo-Arabic problem. Nonetheless, I should probably read those works and might enjoy them.
I have not read the Talmud, aside from a few verses, and obviously not the Mishnah (btw, I'm now seeing there are Aramaic parts to it). I can tell you that the Babylonian Talmud and Jerusalem Talmud are in Aramaic, though they are in separate dialects, albeit with a few minor differences. You see, my biggest problem with these interpretive writings is that I don't know all their names and specifics, so I can't keep them straight. I've only read parts of the Bible and parts of the Targums. To answer your question, let me ask you this: can you read Daniel and Ezra? If yes, then you can read the Targums without difficulty. When glancing at the Talmud in Aramaic and English, I can say that it doesn't appear much harder than anything I've done before. Just familiarize yourself with the dialect differences, like the lack of the article in JBA (Jewish Babylonian Aramaic), and you should be good to go in 10 minutes. The best way to figure out how difficult these things are for you would be to try it out yourself. This reply has become long-winded, but I hope you can get something out of it.

>>19455381
> First of all, most of Maimonides is in Judaeo-Arabic.
Yes, the Mishneh Torah however is his one important work in Hebrew. Seems to be kind of a mini-Talmud (if I understand correctly, as I'm not Jewish either).

> The best way to figure out how difficult these things are for you would be to try it out yourself.
The thing is, I've hardly even dipped my toes into Hebrew. I like the aesthetics of the language (and would like to try something that's not IE), and it seems doable due to the restricted vocabulary of the OT, but I would be more motivated if it opened the door to other texts as well. Ideally secular ones, but I think there's only some medieval poetry in that regard. Of course it opens the door, in a sense, to Aramaic, but the selection there is even smaller.

Thanks for your perspective on the difficulty of the Aramaic portions of the Talmud.

>>19453294
>>19453314
wow. people that cant speak latin.. cant speak latin. amazing.

>>19455601
It was a joke, retard.

>>19455601
The joke was that this kind of shitpost is par for the course with Catullus, therefore you could fool experts with it.

>>19454417
You need to practise by reading fren, pick any text of interest (or just Caesar's Gallic Commentaries if you want to follow el reddit's advice, I find it a bit dull however), even if you have to look up half the words in each sentence. Anything else (grammar textbooks and the like) is just idleness once you get past the fundamentals, you really need raw Latin texts to read at length. It'll be laborious checking endings constantly and all those little things at first but after a while it won't be

>>19454417
buy gwynnes latin

>>19455761
> buy
Fuck off, Gwynne.

>>19455766
im right
gwynne has taught tolders latin and he is the only modern author that has actually worked as a teacher
he knows what hes doing

Which poison would you choose?
Athenaze or Greek Intensive course?
They have like 14-16 units, my plan it's one unit per week, is that bareable?

>>19455531
>The thing is, I've hardly even dipped my toes into Hebrew. I like the aesthetics of the language (and would like to try something that's not IE), and it seems doable due to the restricted vocabulary of the OT, but I would be more motivated if it opened the door to other texts as well. Ideally secular ones, but I think there's only some medieval poetry in that regard. Of course it opens the door, in a sense, to Aramaic, but the selection there is even smaller.
Aramaic actually has a huge corpus, if you count all the types of Aramaic there are. I feel you on the lack of stuff to read outside of the Bible. If there was more stuff, that would be really great. The Targums are a combination of midrash, interpretive stuff / oral Torah, as I understand it, and it can get pretty whacky, particularly in Neofiti and Pseudo-Jonathan. I have been working on a project to make the manuscripts more accessible to readers. They are already digitized at the Vatican and British Museum websites. After two semesters of Hebrew and two of Aramaic, I can actually read them and debate scholars. It's pretty awesome. There is so much work to be done and so many tools available, and amateurs have so much access. It's really a great field to get into.
Besides the Targums, there is a very early international text called the Story of Ahikar. It is originally an Aramaic work that features part of a psalm, but now, it is fragmentary and preserved in a few other languages. It was originally discovered at Elephantine in Egypt, making it a good candidate for being a Jewish text. There are some Syriac texts found in China by some Germans, which were published right before the Nazi rise to power, and they were printed with Aramaic square script. I plan on making a scan of one book available soon. My first scans sucked.
If you have any questions about Hebrew or anything like that, I'm happy to help (dvdriessen@protonmail.com).

>>19456272
Maybe Athenaze because contains easy reading passages to reinforce the grammar and vocab you are learning whereas the other is more grinding out translation exercises. I guess it depends on your level of autism.

As for doing a unit per week, that is manageable. That's about a 1 book per semester pace (Athenaze comes in two books) so you should have an intermediate understanding after a year.

I am giving up ancient greek.
I have the knowledge to keep up with Heidegger elaborations and at this point that is all I care about.
No where along the way did this piece of shit language ignite the curiosity that EVERY previous language (French, Spanish, Latin) has been able to do. I legit just get bored when reading ancient greek texts, which is evry weird since I love latin texts based directly on ancient greek myths, but there the language entices me and not as much the story itself.

It was not fun while I studied and it does not feel bad to drop it pretty much half way through. I can pose over losers and am worthy for philology chads to see me lecture-worthy. That'll have to do.

>>19458613
How far did you get?

If I knew 15,000 Latin words, reading would be so easy…

>>19458622
The base minimum that exists to be an ancient greek school teacher, an ancient greek student and what traditionally educated students receive if they studied greek in High School. The state test name for this is "Graecum" in my country.
We translated a page of Plato for the exam and had to answer rudimentary questions about the grammar and cultural background. That's it.

>>19455743
I haven't got past the fundamentals. That's one of the problems. I still get confused by different verb tenses (so I have to keep looking them up), still not comfortable with gerunds and gerundives (to be honest with you and this is embarrassing but I'm anonymous here so I don't care: I don't even know what they do), the subjunctive mood confuses the shit out of me, and Latin poetry is indecipherable. I fucking HATE being a brainlet.

>>19459157
I fee the same way, but to me the most difficult part isn’t even grammar, but actually improving my vocabulary.
The most humiliating thing is that I speak a romance language, for Christ’s sake.

>>19459380
>>19459380
> the most difficult part isn’t even grammar, but actually improving my vocabulary.
This will be the case for almost every language one could possibly learn.

Can someone explain these ut clauses to me? How do I translate them mentally?

>>19459157
It's okay if you're not familiar with all the different verb tenses completely, there are a lot, perfects imperfects, pluperfects, future perfects, passive versions of all those, subjunctive versions of all those and on top of that subjunctive passive versions of all those. Even if you're not 100% familiar I guess you have an idea of how common presents, perfects and imperfects generally look like and if you generally know noun cases (even if you haven't memorised all 3rd neuters, 4th and 5th by rote) that is all I mean by 'fundamentals'.

The gerund is a concept of a verb, so 'running', 'dying' they have that -nd... stem, ("Ne metum pereundi sentio" = I feel no fear of dying), the gerundive looks exactly the same with the ...nd... often it carries the sense of something that 'ought' to happen, it's what Cato used for "Carthage ought to be destroyed", worth reading a wiki article if you're interested because it has a sense which is hard to put down concretely in written language, you'll get a sense for what it means from seeing it more often
The subjunctive is anything which is not a declarative statement in its general use, any hope or wish for something that is not currently so, whatever is not a simple "thing was verbed" description of reality and its grammatical uses really stem from that. For example purpose clauses are really a wish for something to happen "did something in order for something else to happen (in the possible future from his perspective)". Also might see it for grammatical reasons because certain conjunctions (si, cum etc.) affect the verb

Sorry for the verbiage might be the last thing you want is another patronising paragraph to read through trying to explain something, the point is really just to read something of interest content-wise, even if you have to type "word + latin" in google every few seconds to check the wiktionary definition or to double check what ending it is, that is truly learning rather than doing bland example grammar exercises dreamed of out of the mind of some unimaginative englishman who teaches Latin at an old boarding school. Just spend as much time as you want looking things up while reading a text because that's true curiosity rather than jumping through the hoops of a grammar book

>>19460164
I understand them as Medus: "You spoke just now that 'Christ even commanded the dead in order that they would rise and walk'"
Lydia: "Therefore, listen to that which was written about Iairus, that one who was leader of the Jews, who asked Jesus in order that he would wake up his dead daughter"
You can drop the lengthy "in order" and just do ordered/asked to "verb" the point is just that it's whatever they are being asked/commanded to do

>>19460164
ut + conjunctive can be causal or final
in this case it's final i.e it basically translates as "so that/in order to" i.e, very literally, he commanded them so that they rise and walk, he asked him so that he may resuscitate the daughter
the other use is typically accompanied by adverbs/adjectives intensifying the result of the action e.g acies impetum tam magnum in hostem fecit ut hostes fugam ceperint, the first line attacked the enemy "so" hard that they fled i.e caused them to flee

>>19460267
>>19460364
>>19460408
SUPERB posts. Thank you so much.

>>19460524
no problem fren

Good bread

>>19451900
sup luke, you have 40 words to sell your book to me, make them count

>>19461937
Coming of age literary fiction doorstopper blending Joyce and Pynchon for those between layman and erudite. There’s love (brotherly, little sister, fawning, longterm, lust), an author named Badger searching for truth, a few posers, and a random treatise against language.

>>19454234
Nos omnes modo una gens sumus, quod discernat plebemque Patrem, quod signum cutis aut corporis? Coniungite velut aequi homines, nos solum pro nostra virtute distinguamus!

ne moriaris mihi
ceterum etiamnunc censeo carthaginem delendam fuisse

>>19446722
Any particular technique you're using to memorize it?

>>19448627
>>19448652
Probably not. Even if which specific accent mark is only relevant in reconstructed, even for Erasmian or Modern where it is matters.

is it worth learning French for the sake of education

>>19465646
That's a bit off-topic, but it depends on what you want it for specifically.

>>19465659
>>19465646
He might mean learning it for reading academic works in French about classical languages, in which case it would probably be useful.

>>19446607
latin
french
german
english
these are my ASOOMTIONS

Num successōrem huius fīlī "Dead Languages General" nōmināre possumus? Dēfīnītiō illārum clārior est.

Iānitōrēs modo fīla dē vīvīs linguīs ad /int/ tabulam movent.

>>19466765
?

>>19467249
Obtineamus nomen "linguae antiquae", ita cultius videatur.
Autem ceterum censeo ianitores esse irrumandos.
Vale.

>>19468268
> Obtineamus nomen "linguae antiquae", ita cultius videatur.
Accipiō quidque nōmen quod fīlum etiam aliās linguās sinere significātur.
> Autem ceterum censeo ianitores esse irrumandos.
Certē pathicī sunt, fīlō vērō ob linguās vīvās iam necāvērunt, et rūrsus eum necāre possunt.

do i jump straight into lingva latina or do i need some prep first

>>19468490
You can jump straight into it.

>>19468479
> eum
id

>>19468268
Kek

.

greetings from int/lang/

How did you memorize your Latin declinations.

>>19470808
by writing them down over and over again.

>>19470808
By seeing them used in practical examples many times.

>>19470558
Based

How am I supposed to read Lingua Latina? Just got a copy recently and wondering how to actually get started. I can understand the first 3 chapters but I don't think I'm 'learning' anything when reading it. What's the method to the madness?

>>19472082
read, re-read, do the questions (if you can't get them right or you find them too difficult then re-read the chapter again and again until you can get the questions right) and make sure you pay attention to the stuff in the margins AND the grammar explanations at the end of the chapters

>>19472102
I'll have to ask 'what questions?'
How are the grammar explanations supposed to be read? I understand the reason it's all in Latin but for something more technical I struggle to get the grammar sections.

>>19472082
You should make sure to understand every word, and why it's used the way it is, after you finish each chapter. Just understanding the approximate meaning of what happens isn't enough.

You surely understand every word of "Rōma in Italiā est. Italia in Eurōpā est". But why is there no macron in the second "Italia"? You should know the pattern at the end of chapter 1, so surely you learned something.

Depending on which languages you already know, the first few chapters might seem very easy to you, but the difficulty ramps up soon.

>>19472113
>I'll have to ask 'what questions?'
the pensa at the end. there are 2 fill in the blanks parts and then questions after. pic related for example
>How are the grammar explanations supposed to be read? I understand the reason it's all in Latin but for something more technical I struggle to get the grammar sections.
what are you struggling on?

>>19472113
> I'll have to ask 'what questions?'
The exercises (pensa) at the end of each chapter, after the grammar section.
> How are the grammar explanations supposed to be read? I understand the reason it's all in Latin but for something more technical I struggle to get the grammar sections.
There's no shame in looking up alternative explanations in English, but the grammar sections only use the Latin that was introduced up to this point (except for terms specific to grammar). If can't make sense of them, that might be an indication that you're moving too fast.

>>19472150
My reading so far has just been inference I'm basically just guessing based on Latin words I already know. I only speak english if it's any help.
>>19472175
>What am I struggling with
There is nothing in particular. I've picked up the book only recently and I've just been a bit confused on proper use. One problem I think is 'filler' words like sunt or est. I know it implies something about the sentence but don't know what.

>>19472228
> My reading so far has just been inference I'm basically just guessing based on Latin words I already know. I only speak english if it's any help.
Yes, that's what I wanted to demonstrate with my example. Latin, as opposed to English, has different cases and those two sentences are a first taste. Just learning the meaning of words isn't enough to learn the language.
> One problem I think is 'filler' words like sunt or est.
They're not filler words! They're "are" and "is" in English, respectively.

im luent in sanskrit, anyone got any questions feel free to ask.

>>19472324
fluent*

>>19472324
do you drink your coffee black?

>>19472324
>>19472324
Are you Indian? Which other languages do you know? How long did it take you? How hard was it, assuming you have anything you can compare it to?

>>19455668
Nullus hoc peritus Catullum pendeat

>>19472150
I wouldn't kvetch so hard about the macrons. literally every edition of any latin work past the elementary first year has no macrons
t. classics student

>>19459157
Here's some advice anon that helped me when I struggles with these things:
>gerund/gerundive
A gerund is like a verbal noun (similar to the English -ing). Its uses extend well beyond a verbal noun and must be memorized. BUT one thing is always certain: a gerund is ALWAYS active. The gerundive is an adjective just like any other participle. The gerundive is ALWAYS passive and often has a sense of necessity.
>verb tenses
Memorize the sequence of tenses. You need to understand why certain tenses are used in certain constructions. Also writing out the entire paradigms for verbs of every conjugation will help you memorize them. Just practice practice practice.
>subjunctive
This is probably the hardest part of Latin grammar for English speakers. You need to memorize the different uses of the subjunctive there's no getting around it. Eventually you will recognize what they mean at sight. But for now it will be helpful for you to spend the time and identify definitely every use of the subjunctive you see. Ask questions like "is it independent?" "Is it in a conditional?" "Is it in a cum clause?" "Is this an indirect question?" "Is this an oblique use?" If you can identify all of those you will understand the most common uses of the subjunctive. Nota bene, the subjunctive DOES NOT always express uncertainty. You cannot translate an indirect question as though it suggests a "should" or "would" or "were" in it. Ind questions are always translated in the indicative in English. Might also help you to really learn the different types of conditionals in Latin.
>poetry
POETRY IS NOT HARD!
I will maintain this forever. The hardest poetry is much easier than the hardest prose. Don't believe me? Go read some Aldhelm. Anyway you need to identify chunks of poetry to work on. DO NOT START WITH THE FIRST WORD OF THE FIRST LINE AND READ IT LIKE YOU READ ENGLISH. You are not good enough to do this yet. Start with the main verb of an independent clause, then find a subject, then find an object, then find an indirect object, then find an ablative, then find your subordinate clauses and repeat the above. DO NOT CHANGE THISE ORDER. I assume you are competent enough to work through participial phrases etc. Don't get tripped up by word order. If a "qui" shows up in the middle of a line, don't just assume that everything before it is outside the clause.
Here are some good resourced for you that you can find online for free:
>Carmina burana
These are simple poems and will get you into the mindset of reading Latin poetry without too much strange word order. I would move on to Catullus after you can read these at a high level.
>plays of Hrotsvit
Her plays are fun to read and make heavy use of the gerund(ive) and supine without bogging you down with long difficult sentences. After you can read these pretty much any lengthy work of prose will be good practice.
>Gildersleeve
This is the best Latin grammar imo. It gives good example sentences and translations.

>>19472569
But here the macron is important because it introduces the Latin case system for the first time.

>>19460164
rogo + ut almost always means: I ask to do x.

Anyone else here a Classics major?
I'm genuinely quite fluent in latin and am working my ways towards it in Greek, and I can no longer respect my professors.
These guys can't even read a page without a dictionary, commentary, and grammarbook in hand.
It's made me think very little of the opinions from professors concerning style of certain texts or even their philological analysis. They just don't understand it. I no longer have any respect for them.
Surely a professor of german literature should be able to speak german right?
Or am I just ignorant and clinging onto such primitive ideas as "language proficiency."

>>19472781
You might enjoy reading this.
https://blogicarian.blogspot.com/2019/03/argumentum-ad-ignorantiam.html

>>19472082
For some additional perspective, here's the "instructions" preface to the teachers manual by Hans Orberg.

>>19472082
And the introductory material from the student's manual (Latine Disco). I would get both. The Latine Disco student's manual will help make sure you caught onto all the major grammatical concepts after finishing each chapter. You should also get Latine Doceo (teacher's manual) for self study because it has answers to all the exercises at the end of each chapter (the "pensa") and answers to the supplemental workbook "Exercitia Latina" if you choose to use that.

>>19472082
Had to split the prior post's image into two parts.

Read the instructions for instance about the symbols in the marginal notes. The things in the margin are important because they either help explain vocabulary and illustrate concepts. Even if they seem cryptic do your best to think what the note is trying to say. If you can't figure it out, make your best guess, continue reading and then review it later.

Dum tū, pedes Rōmānus, prope fīnem imperiī mīlitās, subitō illa barbara olēns ante tē stat ac
> S- Salve
inquit.

Quid facis?

>>19472580
Macrons are generally not too important, I would say. They more help with understanding pronunciation than anything. You can get away with not using the macrons on vowels when doing declining, conjugation, etc.

A passage of Ossian

Has thou left the blue sweep of the heavens,
Son without blemish, of most gold-yellow hair?
The gates in the west the bed of thy repose.
The waves come slowly around,
To gaze on him of purest face,
Raising, in awe, their heads;
At seeing thee, so beautiful in thy slumber,
Fled they, all wan from thy side.
Take thou sleep in thy cave,
O Sun! Anf return from thy rest in joy.

>>19472879
That's a good post, I remember that post.

>>19472879
>>19474382
Yup the article is very true. It makes latin and greek classes unbearable and the students terrible

Fact: if you tell girls that you can read in ancient greek, nobody cares, but if you tell girls that you speak latin, they basically explode with vaginal fluids

>>19474710
no one gives a fuck about gayks

>>19472879
thats like Samuel Johnson when he became obsessed with James MacPherson to the point he journeyed to the Western Isles to disprove him and failed.
he couldnt believe poetry could be passed word to mouth or that any high poetry could be made without writing.
He's disproven in that alone by many figures throughout history and men that lived during his life.

>>19474710
>latin
Is that how people say Proto-Celtic these days?

>>19474710
Faciēs mea cum nūllam explosiōnem liquōris vāgīnālis

>>19474710
Men of culture don't fuck roasties. Only bussies

>>19474907
People will try to dispute this. They are wrong and stupid.

>>19474710
dude both of those will be viewed as shit compared to le EPIC FRENCH or italian so SO ROMANTIC! most women dont know shit. i wouldnt be surprised if many would go
>uhh theres a language called latin?

>>19474710
>but if you tell girls that you speak latin, they basically explode with vaginal fluids
I digress. Reconstructed Latin pronunciation hurts my ears. For such a reason I refuse to believe that Latin was actually pronounced that way.

>>19474970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_enn7NIo-S0

>>19474998
Still don't buy it. There's just no it could have sounded like that.

>>19475046
Then why did Roman grammarians explicitly say that "C" has the same sound before every vowel? Why did they use the same letter for U and V if it didn't sound like /w/ to begin with? Why did the Germanic tribes borrow a bunch of Latin words with V as a /w/ sound?

blessed bread

>>19446607
I am learning the "Classical" language of Old English.

>>19472982
>>19473017
>>19473030
These three have been very helpful. Thank you.

>>19475540
How's it going? What led you to be interested in it?

Should you learn the Declination tables before starting on Lingua Latina?

>>19476033
It'll teach you the declensions in a more natural and less painful way, so probably not.

>>19476023
It's going pretty good. I am quickly approaching a highly proficient level. I'm doing a master's in early English history so I decided to learn the language of the time.

You will never be a real Latin speaker. You have no domus, you have no servus, you have no hortus. You are a barbarian man twisted by drugs and surgery into a crude mockery of nature’s perfection.
All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back rōmāni mock you. Your parents are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “amīcī” laugh at your ghoulish appearance behind closed doors.
Patricians are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed men to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even latin-speakers who “pass” look uncanny and unnatural to a rōmānus. Your English accent is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a rōmānus puer home with you, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a whiff of your diseased, infected barbarian tongue.

>>19472082
first learn reconstructed classical pronunciation (Vox Latina book goes really in depth if youd like detailed) then speak the LLPSI slowly and clearly, while trying to understand each line
LLPSI also has its own Companion book to explain stuffs (its on libgen)

PVLSVS

>>19477079
>LLPSI
Automatically put into the bin

>>19475540
Not a classical language in any form

>>19477239
Hāc causā nōmen fīlī mūtāre volō, ut dīxī in >>19468479

Num colloquia dē aliīs linguīs praeter eā Graecā vel Latīnā tam mala sunt?

>>19477272
Well done you typed a sentence using macrons for some reason and typed Latin a 6 year old would know

>>19477277
> typed Latin a 6 year old would know
How is this a bad thing, you pseud? Do you also give English speakers shit for using basic vocabulary? Might want to take a look at your own post then.

>>19477347
K
But please try and learn latin using a real book

>>19477277
>nooo you can't write latin in the classical languages general because... you just can't okay!

>>19477272
Nothing annoys me more than autists who write latin with macra.

>>19477589
Finally a good reason to use them!

>>19472361
yes, i actually do

>>19472428
yes, i'm indian. i speak an indo aryan language as my native tongue. i know german and ancient greek as well. it was easy because i knew the script, knew most of the vocabulary and could guess the meaning of most of the verb roots. It took me 2 years to be able to reach a stage of reading ancient literature like the mahabharata or ramayana without a translation of any sort.

>>19468479
Dicis recte, anone

bump

>>19446869
What are you using to learn grammar?

>>19472082
Get a copy of the workbook that goes with it. If you want additional information, you can also get the pamphlet that goes with it, Latine Disco, which provides additional explanations.

>finished LLPSI
>drill vocab and conjugations
>work through other intro texts
>reading real Latin is possible, but painfully slow

I plodded my way through Caesar over the course of months. I did not enjoy it. Why am I even doing this?

https://youtu.be/VCmYfJQ0j4Y

>>19480060
Groomed

https://youtu.be/JXbLyi5wgeg

>>19480060
>latin textbook
>exciting and fun, i am really getting good at this
>try real latin
>pick supposedly easy real latin text for first timers
>can't even figure out what is happening
>wtf is that
>the only way this makes sense is if that's an ablative
>but that's accusative
>but there's already an accusative and it can't be any double accusative
>wtf is happening in this sentence
>wtf is that
>is that a genitive
>how would that make any sense here
>wtf is going on

>>19480190
Even after I understand each word and identify parts of speech, I can still have no idea what the sentence means because idioms. Or the author just leaves out words. Or it’s a reference to some cultural practice I’m not familiar with. Or ancient people were just fucking schizos who believed and did baffling shit I will never understand.

>>19480060
re read it now, you should be able to go faster and appreciate it more
I did the same some years ago, Caesar was the first "big" work I translated to improve, though first I had started with Lhomond's de viris illustribus which is a brief history of the first 753 years in easy-ish Latin for students
then you can maybe go to Sallust

>>19480060
What were the other intro texts? LLPSI supplements or something else? Did you do the Ørberg version of Caesar first before trying the full one?

>>19478114
Do you think your knowledge of an Indo-Aryan language made your acquisition of Sanskrit easier?

>>19480386
I did bits and pieces from Wheelock and the Cambridge course to practice grammar. I use Kennedy's Latin Primer as a definitive reference. For actual reading practice, I read through Fabulae Faciles several times. I also tried some public domain books from a hundred years ago meant for young children, but found those rather dull reading. The Vulgate is surprisingly approachable, maybe because I'm already familiar with the material.

I used Oreburg's version of Caesar along side the full text. But mostly I used the text on the Perseus library, which has a decent english commentary with it.

>>19480256
I just went back and started from Omnia Gallia... and managed to breeze through the first few pages. This is both encouraging, but also disheartening if the way to comfortably read Latin is to already have read the text.

>>19480444
Do you have any interest in Swedenborg? He is Vulgate level difficulty.

Do you guys recommend doing Roma Aeterna right after Familia Romana or would I be better off going through a more grammar heavy text such as Wheelock's first?

.

>>19480427
yeah, much easier. it's like an italian learning latin or a modern greek learning ancient greek.

>>19481488
>more grammar heavy text
you mean a book that will actually teach you latin
5 year olds began learning that stuff mate
it isnt difficult

>>19482909
intredasting

>>19481033
I'm less interested in Christian authors. Even in translation, I can't tell the difference between theology and schizo rambling.

>>19480060
what tripped you up the most while reading it?

>>19477233
What's wrong with LLPSI?

>>19484677
It's the Gwynne/Celtic schizo. Look into the archives, he's been posting useless shit like this for ages. Just ignore him (or ask him to compose some Latin, so that he can embarrass himself again).

>>19484677
>>19484753
>so that he can embarrass himself again
That was on /int/, not here, unless he did it more than once.

>>19484492
It's easy to get lost in long sentences with multiple subordinate clauses. By the time I finally get to the main verb, I've forgotten what the sentence is about. It can also be difficult to tell where one clause ends and the next begins. Latin doesn't seem to use punctuation to indicate this at all. Trying to parse these sentences is more like solving a crossword puzzle than reading.

Idioms are another problem. Sometimes I find phrases where I can identify the case/conjugation of each word correctly and look up unknown words, but still have no idea what is being expressed.

My vocabulary isn't great, but that is something I know how to study.

>>19485027
>Latin doesn't seem to use punctuation to indicate this at all.
I don't think there was any punctuation in classical Latin at all. It's only added by modern editors, according to their own judgement.

>>19485044
I'm pretty sure they didn't use capitals/lowercase or even spaces between words. I can't even imagine trying to make sense of that.

>>19485267
WASNTSOBADFORNATIVESPEAKERS

>>19485267
I believe that's how modern Thai is still written, more or less.

>>19485027
>>19485044
>>19485267
>>19485337
Generally adverbs and particles were what was used to aid in making sense of a long sentence (though admittedly Greek does it far more and plenty of writers are not so kind or scrupulous), our modern tendency to ignore them, therefore, doesn't really help us. A neat exercise one could try is making sense and reading something quite orederly, like Isocrates or Cicero, after having expunged all punctuation from the passage.

>>19485446
QUOUSQUETANDEMABUTERECATALINAPATENTIANOSTRA

Another exercise I tried was memorizing passages by rote. If it was good enough for students throughout history, maybe it would work for me. I don't think I got much out of it, but I can rattle off Cicero's first Cataline.

quam diu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet quem ad finem sese effonteria iactabit audacia

>>19486325
You're meant to memorise the parsing as well

Its still sad a massive 3" book of ossianic poetry was lost because of the french revolution

>>19485044
That includes macra?

>>19486375
Well obviously I carefully parsed everything while I was learning it and understood the lines I was memorizing. I didn't just blindly memorize sounds and words. But I also didn't memorize each part of speech and a complete analysis of each sentence. If you asked me to give a full accounting right now, I would have to examine each line again. I retain a rougher understanding of the meaning.

How could I memorize it without imagining myself giving a speech to the senate?

But the more I read, the more I realize Cataline was right and Cicero was a pompous windbag

bumpp

>>19486556
Some epigraphs used acute accents to mark vowel lenght but they are the exception, not the rule.

Good morning /clg/

>>19486747
What technique did you use to memorize it?

Nōlī morī

>>19485267
It's not that hard to read with a little practice

Does Old French count as classical?

>>19492217
Well, Lexicity has it.

Rudolph the Hook-Nosed Reindeer
Had a very shiny purse
And if you ever saw it
You would even say it grows

All of the other reindeer
Never noticed all his games
They never knew (((poor))) Rudolph
Had any other hidden aims

Then one foggy market day
Leaders came to say
"Rudolph, with your chosen tribe
Won't you guide the Fed tonight?"

Then how the reindeer loved him
As they shouted out with glee
"Rudolph the Hook-Nosed Reindeer
we'll ignore your history"

Rudolph the Hook-Nosed Reindeer
Says he's the one God had chose
And if you never thought it
They would claim a threat you pose

All of the other reindeer
Can never laugh and call him names
Should never let (((poor))) Rudolph
Play these risky fiscal games

Then another market day
Leaders came to say
"Rudolph, with your chosen tribe
Why'd the market crash this time?"

Then how the reindeer loathed him
As they wanted to be free
"Rudolph the Hook-Nosed Reindeer
You have ruined our country"

>>19492322
Ah just found out about this. Merci !

.

Is there much written in Aramaic? How similar is it to Hebrew?

>>19495497
For things originally written in Aramaic, there's the Gemara in the Talmud, Kabbalah stuff, and Christian writings in Syriac.
The Story of Ahikar was mentioned by >>19456837

>>19493898
About Lexicity, you mean?

I have an interview next week for a classics degree involving an apptitude test to see if I'm not completely hopeless at languages

anyone done anything similar?

and no, I'm not a kid leaving school, I'm giving up my shitty min-wage career to do classics

>>19496124
Yeah

μὴ ἀπόθανε

Using an old textbook I found for Hebrew

>>19497587
What textbook?

>>19496150
>I'm giving up my shitty min-wage career to do classics
I can't answer your question, because I don't have experience, but I wish you luck nonetheless in your studies.

>>19497634
"Modern Hebrew" by Harry Blumberg. I'm familiarizing myself with the basics of the language first, since Modern Hebrew seems to be simplified in some ways (especially when it comes to phonology).

>>19497685
As far as phonology goes I think it's fairly common to read Biblical Hebrew in modern pronunciation anyway.

>>19497685
For Biblical Hebrew's pronunciation, you can listen to the Aleph with Beth videos.

>>19470808
With a song -
"In Latin there are only five declensions
all the endings you must memorise and say
a is for the nominative, ae genitive and dative
am accusative, the ablative long a
start with a ae ae am a, then ae arum is as is, and repeat the first declension every day
a is for the nominative, ae genitive and dative, am accusative, the ablative long a.

Now the second one is very very simple. Us i o um o i orum is os is
and the neuter starts with...

You can look it up - once you've done it 100 times by singing the song in your head, you won't need to remember it any more.

>>19485337
IWOULDASSUMETHATSOMEONEWHOGREWUPREADINGANDWRITINGLIKETHISWOULDBEVERYGOODATWORDSEARCHES

>>19499660
wouldn't it be more convenient to just memorise the declinations rather than a song?

>>19499660
OK, now I need 3 songs for third, fourth and fifth declesions
>>19499932
Somehow it's easier, the memory works in strange ways

>>19500269
This. Music helps with memorization. That's why, even as adults, we think back to the ABC song to remember the order of letters.

Chapter XXVII LLPSI

>>19499544
Just looked this up. Thanks!

Can someone answer this question about Latin declensions for me?

In a phrase that would normally be ablative (ex. "In umeris), if an action is taking place to that albative word, it would then become accusative? (Ex. "In umeros imponit.") Would this happen in every case?

>>19501916
> if an action is taking place to that albative word
I don't understand this sentence.

"In umerōs impōnit" is in the accusative because something is moved there from some other place.

You can see the same effect with "In hortō ambulat" and "In hortum ambulat": the first (ablative) is "He walks in the garden", the second (accusative) is "He walks into the garden".

>>19501976
>I don't understand this sentence.

I mean that if a verb follows a noun, the noun takes the accusative declension if that verb is acting upon the noun.

>"He walks in the garden", the second (accusative) is "He walks into the garden".

Thanks. It makes more sense now.

>>19490022
I never learned any fancy memory techniques. I just break the piece down into small chunks and start from the beginning. I repeat the first bit over and over until I have it down easily. Then I do the same with the second, then put them together. I spend a lot of time pacing around and repeating it to myself and just slowly build up to the whole thing.

I've read about the memory palace technique, but it always seemed like a lot more work to me.

>>19502170
Have you tried linebyline.app? I've found it extremely useful.

>>19502170
>memory palace
What's this?

>>19503726
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci
https://artofmemory.com/wiki/How_to_Build_a_Memory_Palace/

>>19446607
Imagine encapsulating a womans beauty for hundreds of years

>>19503923
In what sense do you mean?

>>19500269
It's all one song. You can learn it in a day, and never refer to a book again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLwcxlIYcSw
While I was learning, I drew dots on the back of my hand which represented the different cases (tip of finger nominative, knuckle genitive, palm dative, forearm accusative, shoulder ablative), and pointed to them as I sang, so that I wasn't just memorising a list of endings, but also connecting them with the right case. Don't discount songs and games when learning a language just because it's "classical"

MacPherson's

The people gather to the hall.
The shells of the feast are heard.
Ten harps are strung ;
five bards advance, and sing, by turns,
the praise Ossian ;
they pored forth their burning souls
and the string answered to their voice.
The joy of Croma was great ; for peace returned to the land.


A literal translation

Gathered the host to the hall of chiefs ;
Heard was the stir of the shells of cheer ;
Woke up the harp with strings of lingering sound ;
Five bards, and each in turn, with songs
Raise high the praises of the hero's son ;
Of Ossian, too, new leader of the hosts ;
The soul a-flaming high within their breast,
While airs repeat the spirit of the strings.
Exceeding joy broke forth upon the host,
For victory, with peace, to Croma had returned.

If there happen to be any other Portubros out there:

I've started learning Latin through "Latin do Zero" by Frederico Lourenço, pic related.
It does get you up to speed on declinations, verbs, etc. very quickly, especially if you pair it with his grammar, but the sheer amount of information gets overwhelming by the middle of the book.

Now based on what I've learned from there (and by speaking Portuguese already), I've been reading LLPSI up to chapter 25 or so and it just seems ludicrously easy. Now going back and forth between LLPSI and Latim do Zero and they do seem to complement each other very well. LLPSI for the initial grammar/vocab acquisition, then Latim do Zero for the actual texts from the Vulgate, Ovid, Virgil, etc. You can actually start to get a good feel for the weird sentence structure and extreme ellipsis in a lot of poems by doing this.

>>19501369
They've written a bit about their chosen pronunciation, Sephardic: https://freehebrew.hismagnificence.com/pronunciation/

.

now that the dust has settled

does learning modern greek help with learning ancient?

>>19507993
I think someone asked this before

>>19507993
Knowing any related language will help with learning a language, but you shouldn't learn Modern Greek just for the sake of learning Ancient, you should learn the language you want to learn. (I mean, unless it's a language for which there are essentially no resources in any language you speak and you HAVE to learn another language first.)

>>19505694
Where can I get this book?

>>19506864
תודה!

bump

>>19507993
no. Modern Greek got rid of anything that makes Ancient Greek a difficult language to learn: the conjugations and declensions that are concealed behind contractions (which don't even carry over to most Ancient Greek dialects from Attic) and the syntax with all the modes, cases and tempus forms.

Don't die.

>>19511035
you're making it sound like Modern is the easy first step to learning Ancient

>>19505522
no one cares about this trash, you scottish autist. this thread is for classical languages.

thinking of learning italian through dante's commedia. do you think it would be possible?

>>19513382
can't recall where I read the story but there was some Polish guy who did something like this once, he ended up speaking some weird very old fashioned version of Italian, comprehensible but not really modern Italian
Dante's Italian is too old fashioned

>>19513382
> I once met an 80-something years old Polish revolutionary who learned Italian by copying a translation of Dante's Comedy; his vocabulary was, frankly, both impressive and ridicolous at the same time, for he used latinism and obsolete terms for anything. For example, instead of saying "let's go upstairs and talk" (saliamo di sopra e parliamo) he said "let us ascend to the highest plane to freely exchange thoughts" (ascendiamo allo superiore stadio per liberi iscambiar pensieri).

It's not quite as big as a jump to Modern Italian as from Middle English to Modern English, but it's still 700 years.

>>19513451
kek thanks for the story. going to give it a try

>>19513451
>let us ascend to the highest plane to freely exchange thoughts

and who wouldn't want to speak like that?

>>19513451
affascinante

I'm struggling with the reading 26/27 of llpsi. I'm afraid I gonna need the grammar companion book.

>>19516269
Is it on libgen or zlibrary?

What books cover Latin meter and quantitative verse at a very profound and comprehensive level? I have already read the normie-tier textbook level stuff, but I need to go deeper.

Βι εςιωυ λαβπωσ αμβι βί ςενδων φιρον,
Πωλιωσ φιρψν εξτωσ κυεννάρδωσ ιφερνιεσ,
Κωςννει τεκιν υπα Συαρανί υπα κενδί λιρι.
Σνα εςτι φηδεςμεν μεφων λυδω τωτιμ εξπεγεντωρ μωψν αυγαν,
Τωφοςςεμαμεντορ ςελγοφιροσ δακρύσ υπα γρουδί.

>>19516269
>afraid I gonna need the grammar companion book
Ah yes
A book where you need another book to understand it. That sounds like one you should use to learn something.

>>19472781
Any recs about how to get good?

>>19450572
how? Im turkish I cant find many resources.

>>19517822
wtf are you trying to write dude...?

>>19517878
Yes. That’s why people own dictionaries. The supplements to LLPSI mainly exist to help people who aren’t covering the text in a class environment with a teacher.

>>19518796
Lexilogos has some I believe.

>>19519020
Q-Celtic

>>19519833
Why in Greek letters?

>>19516918
>Companion to Familia Romana
>Companion to Roma Eaterna
Of course they are

bump

don't die

>>19508458
Any Portuguese bookstore. It was actually on the top sellers for a while last Christmas.
Try Wook, Bertrand...

Is there any book comprehensible to non-linguists about the relationship between Latin and Italian, or even just other Romance languages? I already knew some Italian before starting to learn Latin, and I've found a couple of helpful tricks (e.g., most Italian nouns ending in -e -> Latin nouns in the ablative; Italian gerunds -> Latin gerunds in the ablative; most Latin neuter nouns -> male nouns in Italian), but I had to piece those together myself. I'm looking for something that presents those things in a systematic way.

>>19523136
You have this one for spanish
https://www.edu.xunta.gal/centros/iescastroalobrevilagarcia/system/files/evolucion_y_ejercicios.pdf
And for galician, catalan and spanish
https://www.edistribucion.es/anayaeducacion/8450030/recursos/UD_02/Evolucion_fonetica2.pdf

I think I know what you are trying to do, but i think no one, not even romance language speakers, can learn latin with "reverse engineering": too many exceptions, too many imprecisions, the syntaxis is not always parallel...

>>19523754
Thanks! Still interested if someone has something for Italian or French.

I'm not trying to avoid learning Latin the proper way, it's more of a mnemonic thing. In both directions, even, because I'm not a native speaker of a Romance language.

>>19520109
Gratias!

>>19519833
What's that?

Should I write a macron over the long vowels when I read my books in latin?

>>19525863
> Should I write
> when I read
What do you mean?

>>19525906
Most of latin texts don't have any macrons on it. They print them using just the letters but without any graphic accents like the macron. For example, when you read poetry in latin, you need to keep a rythm, but with out the macrons is a litle hard if you don't have a big lexic. So should I add the macrons to my books while reading them for having a better understanding of it?

>>19525944
Alright, I wasn't sure whether I understood correctly, because this is such a ridiculous amount of work that I suspect it to be completely impractical. It might work if you're adding macrons to an ebook in a semi-automated way.

>>19525944
>>19525995
https://hypotactic.com/latin/ has lots of macronized texts, by the way.

>>19525385
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_languages#Classification

>>19513265
>no one cares about this trash,
except all of the literary establishment for over a century

>>19526360
intredasting

>>19497973

You can only evoke G*d and his angels with proper phonology

good thread so bump

are there any students of sanskrit or classical chinese here

>>19526938
1. "all of the establishment" has not or does not care about some made up scottish poems
2. still not on topic (classical languages)
3. fuck off, delusional scottish autist

Anything on Old Church Slavonic?

>>19528286
>made up
They aren't.
Please provide proof to your claim.
>classical
Gaelic was a Classical language used for a very long time in a Classical form.
>delusional scottish autist
This isn't an argument and it seems your post is entirely based off xenophobia.

>>19528965
this
>>19505522
isn't gaelic.
>This isn't an argument and it seems your post is entirely based off xenophobia.
fuck off, scautist

>>19528990
>isn't gaelic.
Well yes because I didn't post the Gaelic original.
The whole point of that post was to show to an English reader how much of the original Gaelic MacPherson totally ignored or corrupted into meaninglessness.

>>19529001
no one cares, scautist

>>19529011
>i was btfo so now i do not care
okay mate

>>19529033
no, no one cares about ossian or other scottish shit. take it elsewhere, scautist.

>>19529160
You obviously do but you dont know anything about ossian other than what wikipedia ordered you to know

>>19529608
i care about this thread not getting shat up by a scottish autist who makes off topic posts about shit no one cares about.

>>19516269
What are you having troubles with? These chapters didn't seem especially hard to me.

> I have not been a philologist in vain—perhaps I am one yet: a teacher of slow reading. I even come to write slowly. At present it is not only my habit, but even my taste—a perverted taste, maybe—to write nothing but what will drive to despair every one who is “in a hurry.” For philology is that venerable art which exacts from its followers one thing above all—to step to one side, to leave themselves spare moments, to grow silent, to become slow—the leisurely art of the goldsmith applied to language: an art which must carry out slow, fine work, and attains nothing if not lento. For this very reason philology is now more desirable than ever before; for this very reason it is the highest attraction and incitement in an age of “work”: that is to say, of haste, of unseemly and immoderate hurry-skurry, which is intent upon “getting things done” at once, even every book, whether old or new. Philology itself, perhaps, will not “get things done” so hurriedly: it teaches how to read well: i.e. slowly, profoundly, attentively, prudently, with inner thoughts, with the mental doors ajar, with delicate fingers and eyes.
Is this true Latin bros? Has reading /lit/ in your native language improved thanks to your training in an ancient language?

>>19529662
then why do you stalk all of 4channel for ossian?
curious.

Bump for similar pseud repellent threads

>>19532133
Any others at the moment that particularly seem that way to you?

χαίρετε φίλοι, anyone here actually learned ancient Greek to a decent proficiency using Ἀθήναζε as main starting book?
curious because while LLPSI seems to have been the starting book for many who are learning Latin here, I get the impression most people proficient in Greek did it otherwise and I haven't seen many if any talk about it at all
I'm definitely enjoying it a lot anyway, nice story too

>>19532300
These days especially, the board has been exceedingly bad.
The only topics that generate any sort of positive feedback, that is, meaningful conversations about literature are those that are not memefied, which is to say simplified and defiled in meme format for the consumption of twitterfags. The thread has to be specific, sometimes even to the detriment of possible interest in said topic, in order to avoid shitposting. Hegel, Nietzche, Guenon of course, are exceptions, no matter how specific and precise you make your thread, it is doomed to be infested with shitposting pseuds.

Do you guys find it reasonable enough that i keep postponing learning Latin until i have a firm grasp on both English and French grammar. intuitively, i can confidently say that I am at the same level, if not a step above the average native speaker of both of these languages. My reason for this is the acquired language learning skill, or mindset, or pedagogy (I know what roughing it through a grammar book feels like, doubly so [fr,eng], Latin would not seem as colossal)
the second reason is the old: French is a romance language blabla bla

>>19532501
I've just started using Ἀθήναζε and it seems pretty good, although I would like to hear from others.

>>19525944
so macrons are just learning aids?

>>19531944
i don't. you do. you pop up everywhere talking about your scottish shit. no one replies to you, yet you still continue.

>>19532905
>Do you guys find it reasonable enough that i keep postponing learning Latin until i have a firm grasp on both English and French grammar. intuitively, i can confidently say that I am at the same level, if not a step above the average native speaker of both of these languages.
What's your native language?

>>19533805
No.

>Līber - Child (noun) / Free (adjective)
>Liber - Book (noun)

>>19475540
Any useful guides or books on the subject? I've been thinking about it for the better part of a year.

>>19533988
This doesn’t change the fact that they’re just learning aids. Without the macrons you’d just have to see the context to correctly identify the meaning of the word. Like it happens with read (present) and read (past) in English and even with many other languages that use diacritics. I particularly abhor any kind of diacritics in Latin text, they’re just unnatural, except maybe in a dictionary as… a learning aid.

>>19531000
Absolutely. I speak a romance language and learning Latin made me see my language with whole new eyes and grasp the real meaning and etymology behind words that I just used without thinking as a native speaker. Plus, I’m a lawyer, so it also helped me a lot since most terms used in court are directly taken from Latin.

>>19533975
please go back to /eire/

>>19534368
fuck off, asf, you autist.

>>19534374
>asf
i dont really get this honestly since it has nothing to do with me but you keep banging on about it
anway please answer
"why is ossian in scotland fake?"
im curious

>>19534391
1. LLPSI does teach you latin
2. you don't know latin
3. no one cares about scotland

now fuck off back to /int/, scottish autist/asf (autistic scottish freak)

>>19528088
Me.
I use pic related, it seems to be the best book, at least the best book i could check, it's better than any book you can find in the "sanskrit learning pack". But, yes, TOO grammatical, TOO academic. We need a sanskrit per se illustrata or a "reading sankskrit".
The problem is that with my job and daily occupations I have little time and I almost always dedicate it to llpsi. I have only advanced 2 units in a month and a half.

>>19534537
>TOO grammatical,
*I'm too lazy and can't be bothered

>>19533978
Arabic

>>19532905
> Do you guys find it reasonable enough that i keep postponing learning Latin until i have a firm grasp on both English and French grammar.
There's hardly any overlap between English and Latin grammar, outside of what's expected from two IE languages. Can't speak for French.

>>19534624
French grammar is more written than spoken. The spoken language has lost more inflection than the rest of the romance languages.

New thread
>>19534926
>>19534926
>>19534926