/lit/ - Literature

>>>/his/

>>19564922

jesus existed but he obviously he was just a random leader of a small desert cult is probably the right answer.
the stories then got telephone-gamed and mixed with hellenic philosophy into the "jesus" we know.

>>19564922
O. K.

>>19564927
wasn’t jesus a rabbi?

>>19564950
do you kikes ever get tired of spouting the same old tired garbage over and over again lol

>>19564922
Read a book. The /his/toricity of Jesus is well established.

>>19564977
if you want to worship us you should do it correctly, that's all.

>>19564985
You funny

>>19564968
s-shut up!!!
jesusbros we need to mass report this thread RIGHT FUCKING NOW

>>19564977
Do christcucks ever get tired of their mental gymnastics?

>>19564985
>he wuz real because a bunch of people said so!!!
if a bunch of senile old farts at a home told you the sky was actually green would you believe them?

no i think you’re wrong OP. this should convince you https://youtu.be/q0EpOiu8YkI

>>19564985
Where? simply as?

>>19565057
Yes.

>>19565062
still waiting

>>19565095
hold on bro, im still busy plowing your mother

>>19565053
You should already know the answer to that

>>19565104
She needs some. If ,,, never mind, you're just a looser

>>19565062
https://youtu.be/iKcWgqsqJGg

https://youtu.be/N93T-DppU6U

>>19565151
>his sources are a four minute yotuube video
>and a priest
woah

>>19564985
>carrier
anyone other than him?

>>19565053
>>19565130
elaborate further unless you're afraid of getting embarrassed.

*drops on table and runs*

>>19564922
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus#Cynic_philosopher

>>19565680
You're so fucking cringe sometimes butterdyke.

>>19565057
>he wuz real because a bunch of people said so!!!
So all of history is false?

>>19565701
not all of it, but the part about a jewish carpenter creating the whole universe is probably false

I can't imagine how many ((historians)) make their careers by denying historical figures. Imagine if after 2000 years someone comes and says that Hitler didn't exist or some shit.

>>19564922

>>19565680
>Atwill
I thought you were better than this butters?

>>19564968
He was not a rabbinical Pharisee but was a "teacher" in the broad sense.

>>19565959
Jousse M. - Memory, Memorization, and Memorizers. The Galilean Oral-Style Tradition and Its Traditionists (2018):

"Many, if not most, clauses of Jesus’ quintessential prayer, he showed, were recognizable formulaic units of the targumic tradition (427–37). Jousse was in the habit of comparing these individual building blocks or formulas to jewels or a string of pearls that had been in family possessions for generations. “Families transmit their jewels as loose precious stones, and each generation reassembles them anew” (231). Thus, while the “living targumic dominoes” (427) had been in process in the tradition, Jesus’ innovation came with their selection and reordering into a new, single discourse. Tradition, it is fair to say, plays a prominent, an omnipresent, role in Jousse’s reconstruction of Jesus. As he saw it, Jesus lived his life in the midst of and surrounded by tradition. Hence the power of his words did not derive from articulating a novel discourse in distinction from, let alone against, tradition, but rather from his creative employment of tradition. Repudiated are all modern notions of Jesus as solitary individual, who broke new ground with a message apart from or against his people’s tradition. To the contrary, Jousse’s Jesus was a traditionalist, not in the sense of fundamentalist literalism, but in the sense of being raised, inspired, and empowered by the legacy of his people’s ancient tradition."

>>19565996
Yeah, the ancient tradition of the Torah, not the deviant traditions of the Babylonian captive Jews, correct or no?

>>19565710
>a jewish carpenter creating the whole universe
what?

>>19566057
jesus = god etc

>>19564922
Socrates was mostly a fake.
Mentioned by Xenophon and Aristophanes, also the dialogues.
Yeah right, that convince me.

>>19564968
In an unofficial sense.


>>19565889
Holy crap, this is real schizo posting in book form.

>>19564922

This is true. "Jesus" is a combined myth of a doomed Messiah and a Dionysian goat. The historical Jesus was likely a schizo retard who preached of an imminent apocalypse

>>19566335
Socrates doesn't demand we all consider him to be an infallible god that cannot be questioned. In fact that was kind of his main point

>>19564922
Plato killed Alexander
>NOOO YOU CANT BELIEVE THAT THIERS NO EVIDENCE
*BUUUURP* sexcuse me

>>19566659
>Socrates doesn't demand we all consider him to be an infallible god that cannot be questioned
Thrasymachus and Callicles would disagree

>Josephus was a liar AND Tacitus was a liar AND Paul was a liar AND the Gospels all came out of nowhere AND the Didache came out of nowhere AND the obvious paradigmatic shift of a nationalistic Jewish God to a universal Messiah was just random superstition that happened to be recorded and passed down with extreme literary and philosophical tact
I've seen more and more people pushing this stupid fucking take recently, even though it's absurdly indefensible and only pushed by people who have an axe to grind with Christianity. Even if you don't like Christianity, to say Jesus wasn't real is willful intellectual dishonesty.

The question nobody answers is why the disciples would drop their careers and families, and die for a guy who *maybe* rose from the dead and *maybe* was God. Why they would go to the ends of the earth to preach of the message of a guy who was basically an insane madman liar (I'm God, I'll rise from the dead, I'll forgive your sins, etc.).

C.S. Lewis is right: if Jesus wasn't God, he wasn't a nice guy - he was a deranged lunatic who should be ignored. Would the disciples glorify and make up a story of resurrection and die for a guy who was basically a /lit/ schizo poster?

>>19565049
He's called rabbi in the Gospels a number of times. Nobody asking about it, or acting like it's a secret or a surprise, is a jesusbro.

>>19566760
Josephus mentions that some people believe that the Messiah had come. He personally disagreed, thinking that it was Vespasian. The bit where he quotes the Nicene Cred is a later Medieval forgery; he lived over 200 years before the Nicene Creed was created.

>>19566959
People died for all kinds of stupid shit. Doesnt make it true.

>>19566959
you’re gonna flip out when you learn about other religions

>>19567089
Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?

>>19566760
>christianity happened as described
Ok so Islam supercedes that, right?

>>19565680
>proposition so fucking stupid even Wikipedia has it filed under "Pseudohistory"

>>19567073
There are two mentions of Jesus in Josephus. One contains a medieval addition to a pre-existing account of Jesus and the other mentions "Jesus, who was called Christ" and is regarded as completely legitimate. That a Jewish historian from the time didn't actually believe Jesus was God is irrelevant to the discussion, and outside of just Jesus Josephus also corroborates the Gospel account of the execution of John the Baptist.

>>19565843
The issue here is that information storage today is infinitely better in literally every aspect than it was 2000 years ago
If Jesus was born today and his actions were documented on video then there would be no questioning his existence until the video files become inaccessible

>>19564922
How the fuck is this /lit/-related. Just go to /his/ already.

>>19566959
People do this in modern cults all the time, are they all correct too? Willingness to change your life about something doesn't make it true.

>>19564922
Jesus was real because the Holy Quran says he was real.

>inb4 "shut up ahmed"
I'm not Muslim.

>>19567586
>There are two mentions of Jesus in Josephus.

one is an obvious forgery and the other one is probably a forgery or partial forgery. And no, there is no "consensus" regarding it. There is an ongoing debate...

>>19567747
>Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the second reference to Jesus in the Antiquities, found in Book 20, Chapter 9, which mentions "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James."[13] This reference is considered to be more authentic than the Testimonium.[14][1][15][16][17][18][19]
seethe

>>19567643
Information storage today is actually incredibly fragile. Magnetically stored data lasts, even in optimal conditions, only a decade or two before decay makes it unreadable. Hard drives and flash memory degrade even faster than that, files usually start to corrupt on those within about five years or less.
The illusion that digital data lasts forever depends on people constantly copying it over to their new devices - if this stops, for whatever reason, data starts degrading much faster than physical records under similar conditions. A locked safe buried under a collapsed building full of papers might be valuable if it gets dug up two centuries later, but if it was full of hard drives and CDs and floppy disks, it would be garbage, even if given to some historian with a carefully-recreated device that can read ancient media.

>>19568000
The NSA and whatever the British/Russian/Chinese/etc counterparts are all record literally everything on the internet for the rest of time. I guarantee you there's a giant database in Washington DC with literally all the internet traffic in America from at least the 1990s on it. This data will be maintained as long as the countries remain.

>>19567643
People would fucking deny Jesus just the same as they do today even if there were video evidence of Him. It wouldn't matter. If people are committed to not believing in Christ, they will do so regardless of documented evidence.

There are actual miracles with photographic and video evidence, and people STILL don't believe in Christianity. Evidence makes no fucking difference. You either accept Christ into your heart or you don't. That's what 2000 years of history has shown.

>>19568014
You vastly underestimate the cost of storing that much data and vastly overestimate the utility of it. My work is sort of adjacent to the NSA, which I suppose makes me sound even less trustworthy on here, but honestly they just don't need or even want to do that.
Even if it were true, none of those parties have an interest in maintaining a historical record. All that data would be tossed aside before long, and then it would be gone all the same, just a few years later.

>>19565057
>>he wuz real because a bunch of people said so!!!
Yes, that's what history is. Funny how you only notice this when you're hiding from the Lord.

>>19568055
I recognize it's a massive cost, but I think having the ability to run ML models on such a vast pool of data would be too useful for the government to pass up. They'd be able to predict political movements before they happened, for instance. Not to mention the blackmail on everyone. Is someone causing problems? Leak that he was into fetish porn as a teen or was a commie/nazi larper.

>>19568032
>That's what 2000 years of history has shown.
And before that no one got saved right? If only the ancients could have known your volcano demon would send his son die as a scapegoat for the "sins" man had committed again him.

>>19568137
>for the "sins" man had committed again him.
You only sin against yourself. Tired of reading ignorant posts from retards here.

>>19568148
How can I sin against myself? You're the one diagnosing the sins! How can I be faulted for being ignorant of your inner mental life?

>>19565057
Well, all history is based on that.
Even all science is based on that.
But keep searchin for the truth, my schizo friendo.

>>19564968
INRI
Jesus of Nazareth Rabbi of Israel = King of the Jews

>>19566959
C.S. Jewish was a moron

>>19568113
There are subtler, simpler ways to do all of that than just storing absolutely everything en masse, at least by themselves.
Private tech conglomerates gather more information and draw more analytics from it, for example, which is why every single one of them have very strong ties to federal agencies when you look at their highest levels.

>>19568490
They were mocking him.

>>19564922
Brainlets like you don't realize just how little we know about the ancient world. Even as little within the last 30 years, good luck finding information about a one-off restaurant that you might've frequented at one time beyond maybe an advertisement or two and proof that it existed in a vague timeframe that matches up with your memory. Now extrapolate that with two thousand years and realize how much how much has been lost through rot, fire, war, or deliberate destruction; not to mention not recording or skewing history of unflattering incidents or people. Hell, the idea of scrubbing people from official accounts and depictions goes back to even Ancient Egypt, and Jesus certainly had some powerful enemies (specifically the Jewish elite).

>>19568490
Iesus Nazareth “Rex” Iudea