/lit/ - Literature

>>19798078
I did not expect these cute little animals to be such deranged little lunatics, but I love them dearly.

>>19798116
they are trolls

>>19798095
is that you butters?

>>19798137
yes, but it's also a children's cartoon

>>19798116
Momma Moomin is a tough cookie. Based on mamma Jansson

>>19798078
Is it anything like punpun?

>>19798149
>but it's also a children's cartoon
not originally

>>19798116
>>19798149
kek where can I get these comics? what's their name?

>>19798193

Luv em

>>19798078
Top moom desu
Moomin' it up

>>19798193
you can find some scans in win-o'-threads on /co/ if you dig through the archive a bit

>>19798156
hell no it's a kid's cartoon

why do girls like this thing so much

>>19799872
no idea, drinking tea from some cunt's moomin mug right now they really do like moomins

>>19798078
Apparently, big in Japan.

>>19799878
>>19798349

>>19799883
a toast to you

>>19799882
it is!

>>19798078
I don't know much about moomin except that Snufkin (pic rel) is extremely based, I only know him from neofolk threads on /fa/

>>19798142
it is
god knows why the tripfag doesn't keep it off

>>19798078
Based. Also, all the Moomin books were originally written in SWEDISh. Sick and tired of these finnish faggots claiming the work of someone whose first language wasnt fucking finnish.

>>19798078
I'm kinda obsessed with moomins. Love the books but the comics are even better desu

>>19801110

>>19801124
What came first? Books or comics?

>>19801146
Moomins was published in a left wing newspaper. Tove Jansson was a lesbian and made anti nazi cartoons.

>>19798078
It sucks, only alt girls like it. Read Calvin and Hobbes

>>19798078
Best manga/anime ever

>>19801110
Snufkin is based. He takes after his father, the Joxter, who is a cat gremlin

>>19801167
fuck you

Very cute and wholesome and God bless the authors family for not selling out to big media

>>19801154
Yeah but Snufkin is pure Aryan spirit involuntarily channeled by Jansson

>>19798349
>>19799872
Moomin mugs are the ultimate signifier of the 'cultural' middle class. Someone should write a Bordieuian analysis on it.

>>19801230
Snufkin is too based to be le Aryan.

I think I came to it too late in life, unfortunately. I find the characters very cute and the setting very cozy, but attempts I've made to actually read it or watch the cartoon result in me losing interest very quickly. If I had some kind of nostalgic connection to it then I would be able to engage with it more fully, but as it is I have very little patience for children's media that I don't have that kind of nostalgia for.

>>19801239
Indoeuropean steppe-nomad Aryan, not larper aryan

>>19801230
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atos_Wirtanen

>>19801323
Thank you!
This Snufkin as an “ecofascist” meme needs to go away.

The nose makes perfect sense now

>>19801323
>The series had to stop earlier than planned, as readers criticized it and especially the Moominpappa character for his bourgeois sympathies.
Why do wokes ruin everything? They deprived the world from more Moomin comics!

>>19801236
Interesting, as a Cromwellian middle class supremacist, I should get one then.

>>19801603
Wouls Atos have been an ecofascist if you showed him the current state of the world? Always contestualize before judging people from the past...

>>19801815
No, he would not fall for the meme.

>>19801236
The middle class has always been the driving force behind mass movements in industrial society and fascism especially. Have you not read Wilhelm Reich? It's a man who is understood to be middle class but has of himself an image of a tarnished nobleman who inspires the disappointed and bored masses of industrial consumers to overthrow convention and policy. The worker is quite literally a wagie and cannot leave his cagie, the noble aristocrat is content with the system although he knows of its flaws better than anyone else and the corrupt aristocrat is cause for the flawed system in the first place, inheritor of a fortune he does not deserve, contrary to his noble cousin--who does.

>>19801658
Basé.

>>19801154
>Tove Jansson was a lesbian
But she had male lovers, didn't she?

>>19801843
They're all lesbians until they get a good dicking

>>19801843
People are fluid. She had a woman lover before him, and was apparently felt she had to try being straight after that breakup. Some self proclaimed homosexuals test themselves, some declare themselves bisexual. Some bisexuals believe that we’re all bisexuals in denial.
The love of her life was woman. And oddly enough she looked more feminine in her old age

>>19801118
Käften, svenne.
Finlandssvenskar är finnar.

>>19799872
>>19799878
>>19799882
>>19799909
>>19801154
>>19801236
>>19801843
>>19801909
The femme fags love yaoi and yaoi-adjacent material like Moomins, like all the fujoshis that got diddled by their step-fathers love shit like Oreimo. Incest and homosex are socially stratified phenoms, hence the bourgeois preoccupation (it's emulative).

>>19802476
Poison tongue nonsense. Go away.

>>19802476
this is peak schizo

>>19802412
Quiet, Swede.
Finnish-born people are Finnish

Is this what it says? I'm only guessing based on context.

>>19802476
Hmm, I've never heard a straight man talk about this comic, only women and LGBT types

>>19802519
“Shut up, swine
Finn-born-Swedes are Finnish”

Tove was Finn-born

>>19801242
I found the books themselves to have this really beautiful melancholy to them, but I like reading children's lit sometimes.

Also looking around this thread it's fascinating the degree to which Moomin bridges the political divide. Fascists and anarchists both seem to agree that it's great.

>>19802502
>>19802513
>>19802544
It's true. No slight intended, just observation IRL and on sites like Pixiv and Baraag. Feel free to do a basic search for yourselves.

>>19798078
Moomins are great. The books, starting from around Exploits of Moominpappa, are for adults more than they are for children. Also, I read a couple of other Tove Jansson stories, they are very depressing.

>>19801167
>The Tao of Bill
>Better than Moomin

Rank your favorite books:
>Moominpappa at Sea
Creepy and unsettling, I didn't like it as a child, but the themes of loneliness and lust for adventure resonate with me.
>Moominvalley in November
Also a more adult book. The scene where the Fillyjonk is hanging off her edge of her roof is permanently ingrained in my memory.
>Moominland Midwinter
Love me some winter, simple as. Too-ticky and My make for a great supporting cast.
>Comet in Moominland
My first moomin book, and also the first animated moomin media I watched. Special place in my heart.
>Finn Family Moomintroll
The quintessential moomin book. Not the best, but the one that most embodies the spirit of the series.
>Tales from Moominvalley
Great first book, I think. The stories often have some kind of obvious and childish morale to them. Still great writing, though.
>Moominsummer Madness
Iconic, but quite forgettable.
>The Exploits of Moominpappa
Spin-off prequel. Not as good as the other books in my opinion.
>The Moomins and the Great Flood
I know I've read it, but I can't remember much. I know it's a prequel, so most of the usual characters are not present.
As for picture books:
>The Dangerous Journey
>Skurken i Muminhuset (No English translation)
>The Book about Moomin, Mymble and Little My
>Who Will Comfort Toffle?
Don't know how famous most of these picture books are outside of Finland, but they definitely are worth reading if you have kids or enjoy children's literature.
>>19802519
Great deduction. Rather than just "Finnish-born", I was specifically referring to the Swedish-speaking minority in Finland.

>>19802591
shipping is in every fandom, but anything other than snuffkinxmoomin is bullshit.

>>19802721
The Great Flood isn’t a prequel, it’s the first book. It’s an allegorical tale about WWII

>>19802721
Which one has the most Snufkin kino?

>>19802837
Finn Family Moomintroll and Midsummer Madness for sure. He is also the focus of a short story in Tales from Moominvalley, where he is struggling with composing a tune on his harmonica.

>>19802882
Cool thank you anon

>>19801652
There was eventually a longer lasting series of comic strips in the British newspaper The Evening Post. It ran so long that her brother Lars had to take over and do them instead of Tove.
Also, Moomin adaptations are primarily based on the Moomin novels.

The Spring Tune
>One calm and cloudless evening, towards the end of April, Snufkin found himself far enough to the north to see still unmelted patches of snow on the northern slopes. He had been walking all day through undisturbed landscapes, listening to the cries of the birds also on their way northwards, home from the South.
>Walking had been easy, because his knapsack was nearly empty and he had no worries on his mind. He felt happy about the wood and the weather, and himself. Tomorrow and yesterday were both at a distance, and just at present the sun was shining brightly red between the birches, and the air was cool and soft.
>It’s the right evening for a tune, Snufkin thought. A new tune, one part expectation, two parts spring sadness, and for the rest, just the great delight of walking alone and liking it.
>He had kept this tune under his hat for several days, but hadn’t quite dared to take it out yet. It had to grow into a kind of happy conviction. Then, he would simply have to put his lips to the mouth organ, and all the notes would jump instantly into their places.
>If he released them too soon they might get stuck crossways and make only a half-good tune, or he might lose them altogether and never be in the right mood to get hold of them again. Tunes are serious things, especially if they have to be jolly and sad at the same time.
>But this evening Snufkin felt rather sure of his tune. It was there, waiting, nearly full-grown – and it was going to be the best he ever made. Then, when he arrived in Moominvalley, he’d sit on the bridge rail and play it, and Moomintroll would say at once: That’s a good one. Really a good one.
>Snufkin stopped in his tracks, feeling just a little bit uneasy. Yes, Moomintroll, always waiting and longing. Moomintroll who sat at home, who waited for him and admired him, and who always told him: Of course you have to feel free. Naturally you must go away. I do understand that you have to be alone at times. And all the times his eyes were black with disappointment and no one could help it.
>Oh my, oh my, Snufkin said to himself and continued on his way. Oh my, oh my. He’s got such a lot of feelings, this Moomintroll. I won’t think of him now. He’s a splendid Moomin, but I don’t have to think of him now. Tonight I’m alone with my tune, and tonight isn’t tomorrow.

>>19802993
>In a little while Snufkin had managed to forget all about Moomintroll. He was sniffing around for a good place to camp in, and when he heard a brook a bit further on in the wood he went towards the sound.
>The last red ray of sunlight had vanished between the birches. Now came the spring twilight, slow and blue. All the wood was changed, and the white pillars of the birches went wandering further and further off in the blue dusk.
>The brook was a good one. It went rushing clear and brown over wads of last year’s leaves, through small tunnels of left-over ice, swerving through the green moss and throwing itself headlong down in a small waterfall on to a white sand bottom. In places it droned sharp as a mosquito, then it tried to sound great and menacing, stopped, gurgled with a mouthful of melted snow, and laughed at it all.
>Snufkin stood listening in the damp moss. I must have the brook in my tune also, he thought. In the refrain, I think.
A small stone suddenly came loose near the waterfall and raised the pitch of the brook a whole octave.
>Not bad, Snufkin said admiringly. That’s the way to do it. A sudden change, just in passing. I’ll have to find that brook a tune of its own.
>He took out his old saucepan and filled it from the waterfall. Then he went in under the firs to look for firewood. The ground was still wet from the spring thaw and the rains, and Snufkin had to crawl far under a brambly windfall to find any dry sticks. When he reached out someone gave a sudden shout and flashed past him and off among the firs, still crying and squeaking all the way.
>Oh yes, Snufkin said. Creeps and woodies everywhere. Funny how nervous they always seem to be. The smaller the jumpier.
>He found a dried stump and some sticks and built himself a good camp-fire by the brook. Snufkin was used to cooking his own dinner. He never cooked a dinner for other people if he could avoid it, nor did he care much for other people’s dinners. So many people insisted on talking when they had a meal.
>Also they had a great liking for chairs and tables, and some of them used napkins. He even had heard of a hemule who changed his clothes every time he was about to eat, but that was probably slander.
>A little distractedly Snufkin ate his meagre soup while he rested his eyes on the green moss by the birches.
>The tune was quite near at hand, easy to catch by the tail. But there was time enough to wait, it was hedged in and couldn’t get away. No, better to wash the dishes first, then light a pipe – and afterwards, when the campfire was burning down and the night creatures started calling for each other, then he’d have it.

>>19803024
fuck

>>19803024
>Snufkin was washing his saucepan in the brook when he caught sight of the creep. It was sitting on the far side below a tree root, looking at him. Its eyes were scared but very interested, following Snufkin’s every movement. Two shy eyes under a mop of hair. Just the look people have who are never noticed.
>Snufkin pretended that he hadn’t seen the creep. He raked up his fire and cut himself some fir twigs to sit on. He took out his pipe and lit it. He puffed a few clouds of smoke towards the night sky and waited for the spring tune.
>It didn’t come. Instead he felt the creep’s eyes upon him. They watched everything he did, admiringly, and he began to feel uneasy once more. He clapped his paws together and shouted: ‘Shoo! Be off!’
>At this the creep slunk out from under the tree root – it was still on the other side of the brook – and said, very shyly: ‘I hope I haven’t scared you? I know who you are. You’re Snufkin.’
>And then the creep stepped straight into the water and started to wade across. The brook was rather too broad for it, and the water was ice-cold. A couple of times the creep lost its foothold and tumbled over, but Snufkin was feeling so uneasy that he simply didn’t think of giving it a hand. Finally a rather thin and miserable creep crawled ashore and said with chattering teeth: ‘Hello, I’m so happy to meet you.’
>‘Hullo,’ Snufkin answered equally coldly.
>‘May I warm myself by your fire?’ the creep continued, its wet little face shining with happiness. ‘Just think of it, then I’ll be the creep who has sat by Snufkin’s camp-fire. I’ll never forget that.’ The creep edged closer, laid one paw on Snufkin’s knapsack and solemnly whispered:
>‘Is this where you keep the mouth organ? Do you have it here?’
>‘Yes,’ Snufkin said, rather crossly. His tune was lost, loneliness was gone, all was different. He clenched his teeth around the pipe-stem and stared in among the birches without really seeing them.
>‘Now, don’t mind me,’ the creep said innocently. ‘In case you’d like to play, I mean. You’d never guess how I long for a little music. I’ve never heard any. But I’ve heard about you. The hedgehog, and Toffle, and my mother, they’ve all told me … Toffle has even seen you, once! Yes, you can’t imagine … nothing much ever happens here … But we dream lots and lots …’
>‘Well, what’s your name?’ Snufkin asked. The evening was spoiled anyway, so he thought it easier to talk.
>‘I’m so small that I haven’t got a name,’ the creep said eagerly. ‘As a matter of fact, nobody’s even asked me about it before. And then I meet you, whom I’ve heard so much about and always longed to see, and the first thing you ask me is what my name is! Do you think … perhaps you might … I mean, would it be a lot of trouble for you to think up a name for me, a name that would be only mine and no one else could have it? Now, tonight?’

>>19801236
>Moomin mugs are the ultimate signifier of the 'cultural' middle class.
Idk how you came up with such an idea but I agree, my aunt back in Poland is peak middle class and owns multiple moomin mugs and some royal family ones as well

>>19803061
>Snufkin mumbled something and pulled his hat over his eyes. Someone flew across the brook on long pointed wings and gave a long, sad cry among the trees: Yo-yooo, yo-ooo, tee-woo …
>‘You can’t ever be really free if you admire somebody too much,’ Snufkin suddenly said, ‘I know.’
>‘I know you know everything,’ the little creep prattled on, edging closer still. ‘I know you’ve seen everything. You’re right in everything you say, and I’ll always try to become as free as you are … So now you’re on your way to Moominvalley to have a rest and meet your friends … The hedgehog told me that Moomintroll started waiting for you as soon as he wakes from winter sleep … Isn’t it a nice thing to know that someone’s longing for you and waiting and waiting to see you again?’
>‘I’m coming when it suits me,’ Snufkin cried violently. ‘Perhaps I shan’t come at all. Perhaps I will go somewhere else.’
>‘Oh. Then he’ll be sad,’ said the creep.
>Its fur was beginning to dry and becoming light brown and soft. It picked at the knapsack once again and asked cautiously:
>‘Would you perhaps … You who have travelled so much …?’
>‘No,’ Snufkin said. And he thought angrily: Why can’t they ever let my wanderings alone?! Can’t they understand that I’ll talk it all to pieces if I have to tell about it. Then it’s gone, and when I try to remember what it really was like, I remember only my own story.
>There was a long silence, and the night bird cried again.
>The creep arose and said in a small voice:
>‘Well, I must be off, I think. Cheerio.’

>>19803103
>‘Cheerio,’ Snufkin said, fidgeting a little. ‘Listen. Er. That name you asked for. What about Teety-woo, for instance. Teety-woo, don’t you see, a light beginning, sort of, and a little sadness to round it off.’
>The little creep stared at him with yellow eyes in the firelight. It thought its name over, tasted it, listened to it, crawled inside it, and finally turned its snout to the sky and softly howled its new name, so sadly and ecstatically that Snufkin felt a shiver along his back. Then a brown tail disappeared in the brambles, and all was silent.
>‘Golly,’ Snufkin said and kicked at an ember. He rapped out his pipe. Then he rose and shouted: ‘Hullo. Come back.’ But the wood was silent. Oh, well, Snufkin thought.
>You can’t always be friendly. It’s impossible, there isn’t the time. And at least this creep has got a name.
>He sat down again and listened to the brook and the silence, and waited for his tune to come back. But it didn’t come. He knew at once that it had moved too far away to be caught. Perhaps he’d never catch it. The only thing he seemed to hear was the eager and shy voice of the creep, talking and talking and talking.
>Why don’t they keep at home with their mothers, Snufkin said crossly and threw himself on his back on to the fir twigs. After a while he sat up and shouted once more. He listened for a long time, then he pulled his hat over his snout and went to sleep.

>>19803123
>The next morning Snufkin continued his march. He was tired and cross and trudged northwards without looking right or left. And not even the faintest beginning of a tune moved under his hat. He simply could not think of anything but the creep. He remembered every single word it had said and every word he had said himself, and he chewed them over and over until he felt sick and had to sit down and rest.
>What’s come over me, Snufkin thought, angry and bewildered. I’ve never felt like this before. I must be ill.
>He rose and continued his way, and it started all over again, everything the creep had told him and all he had said in reply. Finally he had to stop. In the afternoon he turned about and started back.
>After a while he felt better. He went faster and faster, he bubbled as he ran. Little tunes flitted about his ears but he hadn’t the time to catch them. Towards evening he was back in the birch wood and started to call.
>‘Teety-woo!’ he cried. ‘Teety-woo!’ And the night birds awoke and answered him, tee-woo, tee-woo, but he heard nothing from the creep.
>Snufkin walked back and forth, looking and calling and listening, until dusk had fallen. The new moon rose in a clearing, and Snufkin stood looking at it and feeling quite at a loss.
>I ought to make a wish, he thought. It’s a new moon.
>He was about to wish for the usual thing: a new tune, or, as he sometimes did: a new road. But now he hastily corrected himself and said aloud: ‘To find Teety-woo.’ Then he turned around three times and crossed the clearing, went into the wood and up a hill. Something rustled in the bushes, something light brown and furry.
>‘Teety-woo!’ Snufkin called softly. ‘I’ve come back for a chat.’
>‘Oh. Hello,’ Teety-woo replied and stuck out his head from the bushes. ‘That’s splendid, because I’ve got something to show you. Look! A name plate! With my own name on it, to hang on my door when I get a house of my own.’ The creep showed him a piece of bark with an owner’s mark on it, and continued importantly:
>‘Neat, isn’t it? Everybody thinks so.’
>‘Very!’ Snufkin said. ‘So you’ll have a house of your own?’
>‘Indeed!’ the creep said excitedly, ‘I’ve moved away from home and begun living! It’s so exciting! You see, before I had a name I just used to hop around, and perhaps feel this or that about this or that, and everything was simply happening around me, sometimes nice things and sometimes not nice, but nothing was real, don’t you see?’

>>19803155
>Snufkin started to reply, but the creep continued: ‘Now I’m a person, and everything that happens means something. Because it doesn’t only happen, it happens to me, Teety-woo. And Teety-woo may think this or think that about it, as the case may be – if you see what I mean?’
>‘Certainly, I see,’ said Snufkin. ‘That’s good for you.’
>Teety-woo nodded and started to rummage in the bushes.
>‘Know what,’ Snufkin said, ‘I’m on my way to Moomintroll still. As a matter of fact I really want to see him.’
>‘Oh?’ said Teety-woo, ‘Moomintroll? Yes.’
>‘Perhaps you’d like to hear some tunes before I have to start,’ Snufkin continued, ‘Or maybe a few stories?’
>The creep stuck out its head and said:
>‘Stories? Oh, yes. Later tonight, perhaps. Just at the moment I’m in quite a hurry – I’m sure you don’t mind …’
>The light brown tail vanished in the heather, and after a while Teety-woo’s ears came to view a bit further away, and he called out:
>‘Cheerio, and give my greetings to Moomintroll! I’ll have to live as fast as I can, because I’ve lost a lot of time already!’ Then he was gone.
>Snufkin scratched his head. So, he said to himself. Yes. I see.
>He stretched out on his back and looked up into the spring sky. It was a clear dark blue straight above him and sea green over the tree tops. Somewhere under his hat the tune began to move, one part expectation, and two parts spring sadness, and for the rest just a colossal delight at being alone.

>>19803179
The End.
>Translated by Thomas Warburton for PUFFIN BOOKS
>Tove Jansson was born in Helsingfors, Finland, in 1914. Her mother was a caricaturist (and designed 165 of Finland’s stamps) and her father was a sculptor. Tove Jansson studied painting in Finland, Sweden and France. She lived alone on a small island in the gulf of Finland, where, most of her books were written.
>Tove Jansson died in June 2001.

>>19803219
>She lived alone on a small island in the gulf of Finland, (with her mate Tuulikki Pietilä.)

>>19802560
>going civnat to own the swedes
Ahmed Yusuf Mahamud is Finn-born too.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzzbAzGdzII
Moomin at it again that troll rascal

>>19803454
Don't test me, I'm vote socdem.

>>19803454
So are the Sami. What’s your point?
You’re the type to disown Finns as asiatics even. Stfu.

>>19803240
>Tuulikki
She was born in Seattle? Small world.

Why yes I do enjoy the works of Tove Jansson, famous fenno-swede.

>>19798078
I love it and the 90's anime.

Hate it, it feels too much like Christmas, something you are obligated to like but is in fact spirituality hollow

>>19802721
Of the one's I've read from favorite to least favorite:
Tales from Moominvalley
Moominland Midwinter
Comet in Moominland
Finn Family Moomintroll
Moominsummer Madness
Moominpapa's Memoirs

>>19804610

>>19801815
Quite possibly, look at Linkola. You can't have eco-fascist (or any fascist, really) without certain traditionally leftist themes. Interestingly enough, this statement usually make both sides at least bit butthurt.

>>19801118
Överväg självmord, svennehora.

>>19805960
We’re groaning at your bullshit accusation.
Fascists aren’t socialist. They’re closer to liberals

>>19805990
Case in point.

>>19805995
>Ha ha ha. See how right I am?
You run on your own farts.

>quite possibly he would betray the very thing he fought in the war
As bad as those Catholics who claim people convert on their deathbed. You’re so lonely and bereft of any heroes, you steal them. Pathetic.

>>19806006
>he is immediately this mad
lmao.
You know who makes the bulk of extreme right electorate in post-soviet bloc? Old timers who were dedicated commies in their younger years during previous regime.
>fought in war
He fought nothing, he wrote articles and signed petitions.

After the death of her mother, Tove Jansson made Moominvalley in November which featured none of the Moomins and was really somber in its tone
>Jansson later stated that she "couldn't go back and find that happy Moominvalley again" and so decided to stop writing the Moomin books

>>19801167
Thats a horrible comic series. You are better off with Peanuts

>>19802476
Mass replying faggot. Do us all a favor and end your miserable life. Didnt even read your post

>>19805960
Indeed, even Mussolini himself was a fervent socialist until WWI, he even directed a socialist newspaper until he got kicked out for being in favour of the war (Italy debated entering the war for a year, until 1915). When he created the Fasci di Combattimento, one of the first things they did was burn down the newspaper's headquarters kek

>>19806758
Goebbels was the same, just like solid portion if not the majority of the Sturmabteilung. "Beefsteak Nazi" as a term exists for a reason.

>>19798078
its based

>>19806767
I knew about the SA but not the term "Beefsteak Nazi" - red within, brown outside. Cool cool.

>>19801154
Hitler was left-wing. Just look at his paintings. He fought to overthrow an oppressive regime and create a peaceful society.

>>19802577
>Fascists and anarchists both seem to agree that it's great.
Fascism and anarchism are two sides of the same coin.

>>19807320
>Hitler was left-wing.
You are a moron. So is the other dude claiming he was right wing.

>>19807326
You are also a moron.

Fucking hell I thought this board had at least slightly bit higher IQ than /pol/.

>>19806758
Mussolini was always a Marxist. Even until his death. He was literally ultra-left, which is why he was anti-bolshevism. In his newspapers he was calling Lenin a reactionary.

Ask yourself why he let Bordiga live on an island, or why during the Social Republic he allowed Bombacci to implement Makhnovist policies.

>>19807331
You are the fucking moron you dumb stupid fucking nigger. Hitler was a utopian socialist á-la Saint-Simon. He was not a voracious reader and opposed reformist socialism for being bourgeoisie as well as the Bolshevik revolution for being an opressive dictatorial state which failed to advance the rights of workers. All of this he put under the label of 'Marxism', because these people always identified with that label, while even Marx himself would dismiss these kinds of people as 'phrase mongerers' and the Bolshevik revolution as Barracks communism. The USSR was a complete disaster, and Hitler RIGHTFULLY wanted to destroy it.

Hitler gave a very clear definition of Socialism, 'the science of dealing with the common weal', he called it. His invasion of the USSR was not only necessary from an ideological standpoint but a MATERIAL standpoint (the ideological content of National Socialism being largely a reflection of the material conditions in Germany at the time)

Germany was overpopulated, Germans were emigrating by the MILLIONS. There were not enough jobs, not enough food to go around for everyone. It was necessary for the Germans to invade the USSR. At the time there was no other conceivable way to. sustain the population. WW2 was a proletariat revolution. The capitalist and state capitalist regimes destroyed it.


Dumb idiot. Get the fuck off my board. Read history.

>>19807331
>You are also a moron.
You are the fucking moron. Mussolini himself tried to get sacco and vanzetti out of prision. He split from anarchism was after tbe second international. Obviously he still respected them.

>>19807382
>utopian socialist
Yeah, you are completely fucking clueless. He was nowhere even remotely close to it. If anything, Hitler was very pragmatic in all things socialism-capitalism related. More than you think, to the point of being shrewd utilitarian.
>He was not a voracious reader
lmao, literally every historical source from people close to him say otherwise.
>Germany was overpopulated,
Lmao. Did your mother drank a lot of alcohol while she was carrying your dumb malformed head, you ugly potato-looking nigger?
Stop making idiotic headcanon to sound clever and unique.
German national socialism is to be judged outside of the left-right spectrum due to using policies and ideas from both equally and due to the fact that it is a complete worldview, not simply a socio-economical or political tool. Anything else either smells of mongoloid retard or some faggot trying to use reductio ad hitlerum towards his perceived enemy.

>>19807398
>Mussolini does X for some reason
>therefore fascism and anarchism are two sides of the same coin
Hitler let Maurice (Jewish SS-mann) stay in the ranks. Therefore Judaism and National Socialism are two sides of the same coin.
>inb4 some schizo saying yes

>>19807429
Yes

>>19807429
>Did your mother drank
??

>>19807429
Anarchism was literally one of the main and most important roots of the first Fascism (during the Fasci di Combattimento, which were pretty much anarchist raiders). This first wave of Fascism (very different from Imperial Fascism) was highly influenced by the Futurist movement, which in turn held Anarchists in the highest regard. Pic rel: Funerali dell'anarchico Galli, by Carlo Carrà, anarchist until WWI and then supporter of Fascism who then opposed the "centralization" tendencies of Imperial Fascism, like many other Futurists.
Overall, Fasci di Combattimento (and early Mussolini) are much closer to anarchism than late imperialist Fascism (and late wartime Mussolini).

>>19807485
Forgot pic like a retard

>>19807429
>More than you think, to the point of being shrewd utilitarian.
Being a utilitarian doesn't make him any less of a utopian socialism. All of his arguments for socialism were from a moralistic standpoint.
>lmao, literally every historical source from people close to him say otherwise.
Hardly true. He even said himself in MK he would skim books and get the 'gist' of it. He was a voracious reader of newspapers and propaganda pamphlets. He did not 'read books'. I bet you also believe he read 'one book ever night'? Lol.
>Lmao. Did your mother drank a lot of alcohol while she was carrying your dumb malformed head, you ugly potato-looking nigger?
>Stop making idiotic headcanon to sound clever and unique.
Literally did not say anything. Germany was overpopulated. This is a statement of fact.
>German national socialism is to be judged outside of the left-right spectrum due to using policies and ideas from both equally and due to the fact that it is a complete worldview, not simply a socio-economical or political tool.
Leftwing in the conventional sense of the term, from the French revolution is a revolutionary and the improvement of the lives of the common people. These are all things the Hitlerites were for. It was their number one goal above all: Hitler said himself: to make the german people rich.
>Hitler let Maurice (Jewish SS-mann) stay in the ranks. Therefore Judaism and National Socialism are two sides of the same coin.
You are again a stupid fucking retard. Italian syndicalism was very reminiscent of Anarchism. Rejection of reformism, parliamentary politics, embracing of direct action, violence. All of these these were born as a rejection of Bernsteinian and kautskian reformism. During the late 10s the squadristi was decentralized and relied on mass spontaneous action of war veterans. Their ultimate goal was to reduce the functions of the state, because in their view the state retarded economic development.

Now shut up retard

>>19798078
Love it, I may be biased, being a Finn and all. But I still do love it.

>>19801152
books

>>19807485
>This first wave of Fascism
>(very different from Imperial Fascism)
And with this, out debate is concluded.
I appreciate the effortposting though. I know of course about the roots, but the painting is new to me.

>>19807497
>Being a utilitarian doesn't make him any less of a utopian
The absolute state of your brain.
>He did not 'read books'
Once again you retard, everyone, him included, you "forgot" that in the quote of his he also says that he voraciously read everything - books, newspapers, pamphlets, etc., claimed otherwise. Kubizek literally has whole part of the book about how fanatical reader Hitler was:
>"So, for my friend it was books, always books. I could not imagine Adolf without books. He stacked them in piles around him. He had to have with him at his side the book he was currently working through. (...) Books were his whole world. In Linz, in order to procure the books he wanted, he had subscribed to three libraries. In Vienna he used the Hof Library so industriously that I asked him once in all seriousness whether he intended to read the whole library.
Stop talking about shit you have no idea about.
>and the improvement of the lives of the common people
Hitler and Nazis never made such distinction, national socialism as a worldview does not either. It is always a national body/volksgemeinschaft as a whole, both common folk and upper classes. You are looking for Strasser here, not Hitler. And one should also remind that Strasser became fairly early a historical footnote.
>muh italian syndicalism
Again, are you able to understand how time works? You know, past, present and future? If something is at certain portion present in the past, it does not mean it will be present to the future. Again, nazis had their revolutionary beefsteak "communist" wing too. It did got the "final product", just like fascism had futurists.
You are a fucking moron, anon.

>>19807556
>It did got the "final product", just like fascism had futurists.
It did not*
fixed.

>>19807556
Are you really trying to justify a point with >muh childhood friend
commissioned propaganda?

>>19807572
>commissioned propaganda
I accept your concession.

>>19807556
>The absolute state of your brain.
Utilitarianism is the DEFINITION of utopian socialism you idiot.
>Once again you retard, everyone, him included, you "forgot" that in the quote of his he also says that he voraciously read everything - books, newspapers, pamphlets, etc.
For someone who was such a reader, he did very well not to mention a single author or concept from a book which influenced him, but he would always talk about the various newspapers and pamphlets he would read.
Mein Kampf, after all was orrated—not written. The kind of people who are 'voracious readers' are not the kind of people who would orate a text as opposed to writing it.
>Kubizek
Yeah the guy who used his book as apologia for how the German people were taken advantage of by evil Hitler. I'd take everything he says with a grain of salt.
I've read MK, Hitler was not a 'reader of books' He was very bright sure, and was very involved in reading political writings but he was neither an intellectual or a reader. I can tell when people don't know how to read books. Hitler was one of them.
>that quote
Having books stacked around you doesn't mean shit. I know so many people that have hundreds of books but haven't read any of them from front to cover.
>Hitler and Nazis never made such distinction, national socialism as a worldview does not either. It is always a national body/volksgemeinschaft as a whole, both common folk and upper classes. You are looking for Strasser here, not Hitler.
Hitler and the nazis were primarily concerned with the well being of peasents and proletariat. Why would they concern with themselves with the wellbeing of a class who are already well off? Hitler's saying: 'everyone must help, rich and poor' was so that he can can show all germans are equal through his eyes and not to harbor resentment.
>Again, are you able to understand how time works? You know, past, present and future? If something is at certain portion present in the past, it does not mean it will be present to the future. Again, nazis had their revolutionary beefsteak "communist" wing too. It did got the "final product", just like fascism had futurists.
You are a fucking moron, anon.
YOU ARE THE FUCKING MORON. MUSSOLINI NEVER ABANDONED HIS SOCIALISM. HE SAID HIMSELF THAT IN REVOLUTION IT IS NECESSARY TO MAKE TACTICAL DECISIONS FOR THE SAKE OF THE WHOLE REVOLUTIONS. MUSSOLINI ALWAYS KEPT CLOSE ACCORDANCES WITH FELLOW PARTY MEMBERS WHETHER COMMUNIST OR ANARCHIST. ALL ITALIAN SYNDICALISTS SUPPORTED LIBERAL ECONOMICS BECAUSE ECONOMIC LIBERALISM WAS NECESSARY TO RAISE ITALIAN PRODUCTIVE FORCES. CORPORATISM, WHICH WAS THE MAIN INTELLECTUAL BACKBONE OF FASCISM WAS COMMUNIST. THE ITALIAN CORPORIST SCHOOL WOULD PUBLISH MARXIST WORKS.

>click on moomin thread
>ends up being about fascism

>>19807677
>he did very well not to mention a single author or concept from a book which influenced him
Actually read Mein Kampf. Book as a whole is kinda wonky (which he later admitted himself), but you could hardly find another political book which uses so much of Schopenhauer, Goethe, Hegel, Nietzsche and many others. Anon, shut the fuck up about this. One thing is to debate stuff that is debatable, other is just engage stubborn faggotry of ego-hurt loser like (you).
>(in)famous orator would speak, instead of writing, that is a proof he didnt really read much
This is your brain, anon. Lmao.
>Kubizek
Stop pretending like you just didn't read about him for a first time on wikipedia, dumb fatso. You already btfo'd yourself by thinking his book was "commissioned propaganda".
>Having books stacked around you doesn't mean shit
Alright now it is getting hilarious, continue.
>Hitler and the nazis were primarily concerned with the well being of peasents and proletariat.
No. They were concerned about wellbeing of German nation/German national body. There is a specific German word I already used for that, they had numerous offices for managing various aspects of this task too. There are no class distinctions in that body, both Nazi youth organizations were following it to a letter themselves. That was one of the biggest selling points of the whole worldview, anon.
>was so that he can can show all germans are equal through his eyes
Yes, proving the point here. This is why he worked with all classes - both working class proles (often ex-communists) and top tier businessmen and industrialists of his era. It is also why he got rid of Strasser and Röhm to a certain degree, as they were what you depict - too focused simply on proles (and few other things) and revolutionary sozi topics. Why are you slapping yourself again, anon.
>that meltdown
top kek. Go outside you retard.

>but, muh fascist Snufkin!
STOP circulating that crap. The character was based on a socdem who fought fascism. Let it go.
So much bad cope polluting a once decent thread.

>>19807763
>socdem who signed a petition against fascism*
ftfy.
But I agree, especially with Snuffkin's flaming hatred towards walls and fences and borders both literal and figurative.

>>19798078
Looks like proto tumblr art, shitty

>>19807741
>Schopenhauer, Goethe, Hegel, Nietzsche and many others
Please tell me what concepts from these individuals Hitler makes reference to! Please tell me!
>This is your brain, anon. Lmao.
Yes! People who are readers and capable of digesting the material which they read are also WRITERS. You cannot get across through orating the same density of a written work! Hitler did not read philosophy and I can tell easily! Mussolini was a READER. And his collected works span VOLUMES.
>You already btfo'd yourself by thinking his book was "commissioned propaganda".
WHERE DID I CALL HIS WORK COMMISSIONED PROPAGANDA. I SAID THAT HIS BOOK WAS COPE TO ABSOLVE GERMAN PEOPLE FROM THE 'SIN OF FOLLOWING HITLER'. KUBIZEK WROTE IT AS AN ANTI HITLER WORK, WHICH IS WHY I AM OBVIOUSLY SKEPTICAL OF BELIEVING WHAT IT SAYS.
>No. They were concerned about wellbeing of German nation/German national body. There is a specific German word I already used for that, they had numerous offices for managing various aspects of this task too. >There are no class distinctions in that body, both Nazi youth organizations were following it to a letter themselves. That was one of the biggest selling points of the whole worldview, anon.
WHO IS GOING TO PRIMARILY MAKE USE OF SOCIAL PROGRAMS, GENIUS? WHO IS GOING TO BENEFIT? THE BOURGSOESIE? LMAO.
>and top tier businessmen and industrialists of his era
THE ROLE OF THE BUSINESSMAN WAS TO BE SUBSERVIANT TO THE ORDERS OF THE PARTY. THAT WAS ALL.
>It is also why he got rid of Strasser and Röhm to a certain degree
NO THAT IS NOT WHY HE GOT RID OF THEM. THEY WERE POLITICAL THREATS AND ROHM HAD TOO MUCH POWER THROUGH THE SA.THEY WOULD BE DESTABLIZING TO NAZI ORDER AND WERE A HINDERANCE TO THE OVERALL GOAL OF TAKING LAND FROM RUSSIA.
>top kek. Go outside you retard.
YOU ARE A STUPID RETARD WHO ONLY READS /POL/ INFOGRAPHICS. LE 'HITLER WOULD MAKE THE INDUSTRIALISTS AND PROLES GET ALONG', THAT IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE FROM A MATERIAL STANDPOINT. THE INTERESTS OF THE TWO ARE COMPLETELY MALALIGNED. THE GOAL OF THE NSDAP WAS TO ESSENTIALLY TURN THE INDUSTRIALIST A WORKER IN HIS OWN RIGHT.

>>19802560
>>19803454
Fennoswedes are not the same as Finn-born Swedes.

>>19807805
>Please tell me!
>From memory, for example the part where Hitler explains that the state is a tool for achieving certain goals and not purpose in itself, that is literally Nietzche's critique of Hegel. Anon it is not my fault you are projecting your lack of reading to Hitler. Of all people, like he doesn't get enough of shit on his plate, kek.
>Hitler did not read philosophy and I can tell easily!
No anon, you are retarded, I'm sorry. There are literally whole articles about his library, just like about his reading throught his whole life. Both from his contemporaries and modern writers.
>WHERE DID I CALL HIS WORK COMMISSIONED PROPAGANDA
>>19807572
>inb4: that wasn't me or better yet: THAT WASN'T ME!!!!!!
>kubizek wrote it as anti hitler work
Nope. Anon why are you so deeply intent on making shit up itt?
>DEM PROGRAMS BRO
Jesus the cope. Obviously, just like big business got their own slice of a pie, just like the fact the Nazis deployed privatization repeatedly, which went against contemporary trends. Some authors even call it first mass state organized privatization. Then there was support of businesses and other typically right-wing policies.
>WAS TO BE SUBSERVIANT TO THE ORDERS OF THE PARTY
The individual regardless of class was subservient to the greater good of national/German/Aryan body*
ftfy.
>NO THAT IS NOT WHY HE GOT RID OF THEM
Yes it is. Probably the biggest reason too. Power was of course also a reason, at least with Röhm, but certainly not with Strasser. Anon have you actually ever opened a single book about early days of NSDAP?
>'HITLER WOULD MAKE THE INDUSTRIALISTS AND PROLES GET ALONG'
Thats what he did (or tried). Of course with limited success and great compromises on both sides - particularly state taking some big businesses and some major compromises on what was promised to the working class, but still - both in practice and ideologically, this was the name of the game. Who know how it would worked long term, considering HJ/BDM.

>>19807916
Fucked up greentext, sorry.
Anyway, I found out there are even books about Hitler's private library. That should hint you how broad of a topic it is.

>>19807828
Why? Do you think Fennoswedes are just Finns who took up the Swedish language at some point in the past? They're not. They are ethnically Swedish. They might be more related to Finns than the average Swede due to a certain extent of inter-breeding, but their ancestry is from Swedish immigrants and they are ultimately closer to Swedes than Finns genetically. They are, essentially, Finn-born Swedes.

>>19805990
Hate to get political, but fascism most definitely has a habit of adopting a veneer of socialism/populism to gain supporters.
I am not saying that they actually implement or believe in any of it, just that it is a necessary component of galvanizing the kind of support that they need.

>>19808028
Nazis were pretty staunch socialists in practice too.

>>19806349
are you retarded?

>>19807693
Just report these idiots

>>19807937
Ethnicity doesn't matter to me, it will always devolve into percentages and generalizations. I really only care about as an anthropological tool.
Nationality is objective and absolute.
>>19808156
yes

>>19805990
>How then did Germany “break the bondage of interest”? Few now know. Rearmament is not a sufficient explanation. Prof. A. J. P. Taylor, the eminent British historian, and hardly a Nazi sympathizer, writes:

>"Fascism, it was claimed, represented the last aggressive stage of capitalism in decline, and its momentum could be sustained only by war. There was an element of truth in this, but not much. The full employment which Nazi Germany was the first European country to possess, depended in large part on the production of armaments; but it could have been provided equally well (and was to some extent) by other forms of public works from roads to great buildings. The Nazi secret was not armament production; it was freedom from the then orthodox principles of economics . . . the argument for war did not work even if the Nazi system had relied on armaments production alone. Nazi Germany was not choking in a flood of arms. On the contrary, the German Generals insists unanimously in 1939 that they were not equipped for war and that many years must pass before “rearmament in depth” had been completed."

>Answering predictions of ruin by orthodox economists throughout the world, Hitler explained that Germany had not withdrawn from world trade but had bypassed the international financial system by means of barter, stating:

>"If certain countries combat the German system this is done in the first instance because through the German method of trading their tricks of international currency and Bourse speculations have been abolished in favor of honest business transactions. . . . We are buyers of good foodstuff and raw materials and suppliers of equally good commodities!"

>>19808171
>Hitler next explained precisely the foundations of the new economic and financial system:

>"If ever need makes humans see clearly it has made the German people do so. Under the compulsion of this need we have learned in the first place to take full account of the most essential capital of a nation, namely, its capacity to work. All thoughts of a gold reserves and foreign exchange fade before the industry and efficiency of well-planned national productive resources. We can smile today at an age when economists were seriously of the opinion that the value of currency was determined by the reserves of gold and foreign exchange lying in the vaults of the national banks and, above all, was guaranteed by them. Instead of that we have learned to realize that the value of a currency lies in a nation’s power of production, that an increasing volume of production sustains a currency, and could possibly raise its value, whereas a decreasing production must, sooner or later, lead to a compulsory devaluation."

>More recently a professional economist, Henry C K Liu[18], who can hardly be suspected of Hitlerism, analyzed the methods by which Germany emerged from the Depression:

>"The Nazis came to power in Germany in 1933, at a time when its economy was in total collapse, with ruinous war-reparation obligations and zero prospects for foreign investment or credit. Yet through an independent monetary policy of sovereign credit and a full-employment public-works program, the Third Reich was able to turn a bankrupt Germany, stripped of overseas colonies it could exploit, into the strongest economy in Europe within four years, even before armament spending began. In fact, German economic recovery preceded and later enabled German rearmament, in contrast to the US economy, where constitutional roadblocks placed by the US Supreme Court on the New Deal delayed economic recovery until US entry to World War II put the US market economy on a war footing. While this observation is not an endorsement for Nazi philosophy, the effectiveness of German economic policy in this period, some of which had been started during the last phase of the Weimar Republic, is undeniable."

>>19808178
>Henry Liu adds an interesting comment regarding communist China by way of comparison. It is instructive for us today in that Marxism has failed historically as an alternative to capitalism — as both Spengler and Eckart pointed out — especially with its inability to address the world financial system upon which monopoly capitalism is predicated. Liu writes:

>"After two and a half decades of economic reform toward neo-liberal market economy, China is still unable to accomplish in economic reconstruction what Nazi Germany managed in four years after coming to power, i.e., full employment with a vibrant economy financed with sovereign credit without the need to export, which would challenge that of Britain, the then superpower. This is because China made the mistake of relying on foreign investment instead of using its own sovereign credit."

>De Colonna writes that, “[in Nazi Germany the] result was a decision by the government to issue and assume control of currency and credit.” One million marks of state credit were issued to finance public works including state housing. “The bankers prophesied speedy bankruptcy. Those prophecies proved utterly wrong . . .” Newly created state banks issued state credit. “The new money backed by the credit of the nation was gradually absorbed by the open money market.” This in turn brought a big increase in state revenue without the need for increasing taxation. Private banks were placed under state supervision and “the rate of interest was limited by law.”

>De Colonna pointed out that the state money was in no way inflationary (a frequent objection against such schemes by orthodox economists). The issue of credit and new money “is based upon the actual production of real wealth;” through greater industrial output. De Colonna stated that after five years of pursuing this policy it had proven its worth in keeping money in constant circulation; “after all that is the only use of money – to circulate and exchange the wealth produced by the nation.”[17]

The Nazis were more of a Marxist state than USSR was. I guess that's why Werner Sombart, whom Engels called the only scholar to truly understand Marx in Germany, went from being a leading Marxist intellectual to a leading National Socialist intellectual.

>>19808195
National syndicalism is the natural conclusion of historical materialism. Leninism is just a broken form of syndicalism. Lenin and Stalin split over the nationality question just before Lenin died, because Lenin still believed in the direct-democratic capacity and autonomy of peoples within the greater union of soviet republics. This direct-democratic capacity is nothing other than the national principle in national syndicalism. Lenin was blinded by the atheistic and utopian-socialistic internationalism of Second International Marxism. But even he understood that utterly crushing the national principle under the boot-heel of a totalitarian party-state was going too far.

Sadly Stalin's USSR did not continue from this good instinct of Lenin but from Lenin's blindness, turning the revolution into a blind and headless terror incapable of setting down roots, just a rampaging party-machine for uprooting peoples and converting them into featureless gruel.

Third positionism sublates what is best and correct in both the left and the right, with the autistic excesses of neither.
https://counter-currents.com/tag/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest/

>Spain, like Italy where Fascism arose under similar circumstances, and France, had strong syndicalist elements in the labor movement. These Syndicalist elements first in France under the inspiration of Georges Sorel, and then in Italy, responded to a doctrinal crisis within socialism by taking on a national orientation which enabled a convergence with traditionalists and nationalists. The “Right” for its part saw in syndicalism a means of achieving a nationally integrated state that replaced the party with the profession and enabled a unity of factions instead of conflict engendered by parties, as counseled by Pope Leo. The syndicates (or trades unions) would assume a function within the nation rather than as a faction at war with the nation; they would become cells within the national organism, assuming the responsibilities for economic, social, and moral questions. The detestation of the liberal democracy of the bourgeois state by both Syndicalists and “Rightists” enabled the unification of anti-bourgeois forces that in France coalesced around the Proudhon Circle. There the Syndicalist followers of Georges Sorel and the traditional Catholic and nationalist followers of Charles Maurras and Action Française, united.[7] In Italy the same unity of purpose arose within the Nationalist Association, a precursor of Mussolini’s Fascio, which adopted syndicalism in 1919.[8]

>>19808161
So you *are* a civnat. Nationality is just based on what for you? Citizenship? Culture? There is no such thing as a nation that doesn't share ancestry. The Swedes in Finland are ethnically Swedish, linguistically Swedish, culturally Swedish (although there isn't that big of a difference anyway) and thus they are of the Swedish nation. In every aspect they are Swedes. No one considered them Finnish in any way before the fennoman movement. According to you, nationality can be reduced down the the arbitrary whims of opinion. You are right, nationality is objective and absolute. The Swedes who live in what we now call the Republic of Finland, and who have lived there since the original wave of settlers came there after the crusade and conquest are objectivel and absolutely Swedish.

>>19808227
I guess I am. I'm not well-versed in political theory, but it seems like the logical conclusion.
>There is no such thing as a nation that doesn't share ancestry
I would argue that they only share ancestry because nationality generally implies geographical proximity. Almost every nation in existence has a small minority of people from their surrounding countries.
>Swedes who live in what we now call the Republic of Finland, and who have lived there since the original wave of settlers came there after the crusade and conquest are objectively and absolutely Swedish.
My cousin has a Swedish-speaking mother and a Finnish-speaking father. He speaks better Finnish than Swedish, since he went to a Finnish-speaking preschool. Despite that he attended primary and secondary school in Swedish. Is he ""objectively"" Finnish or Swedish? What utility is there in determining whether his genes indicate a majority Swedish or Finnish ancestry? He considers himself to be Finnish, he does not have Swedish citizenship, nor has he ever lived there. Every time you ""objectively"" determine his nationality, I could go a few generations back and uncover new information that you would have to take into account. Maybe his great great grandmother is of Russian origin. Who knows? His case is in no way unique.
>According to you, nationality can be reduced down the the arbitrary whims of opinion
It's purely a legal formality.

>>19808058
Except that isn’t socialism and none of the other components of it are meant to achieve communism, but rebirth the imperial age. He’s right. It was all a lie. They’re not socialists. Socdems aren't socialists. Roosevelt wasn’t a socialist, Bernie Sanders isn’t a socialist, Blaire isn’t a socialist. Socialism isn’t political populism. Populism is populism.

All this autistic sperging bullshit propaganda to claim little Snufkin. He’s an-prim and belongs more to the Ted crowd than you goose stepping morons

>>19807773
THIS!
/thread

>>19808544
dumb tranny

>>19808582
Typical insecure rightoid. Trannies always on his mind.

>>19808590
All true communists should have trannies on their mind since trannies are currently subverting communist movements. Trannies are literally a CIA psychological warfare program aimed at destroying labor activism with meaningless "intersectionality."

M-moomin?

>>19808626
>Trannies are literally a CIA psychological warfare program aimed at destroying labor activism with meaningless "intersectionality."
And it’s fuel for rightwing IDpol tards as well. What’s your point? The first part of your post is asinine. It’s all just divisiveness and you fall for it. What about it? Why are you laying your hatful hands on Tove Jansson’s character?
You got your Pepe , now fuck off.

>>19808626
We aren't interested your mental issues, nor the political views of any single communist or fascist. We are discussing Tove Janssons views on politics and her inspiration for creating certain characters.

>>19802476
Not even schizo
just a tryhard

>>19807494

Futurist art is so based. The sculptures are even better.

This thread is a testament to the slow rot of this site.

>>19809009
It’s been this pool of rust since Moot welcomed them. But yeah, worse every year.

>>19808960
It’s ugly

>>19808875
Get better at hiding that you're a tranny.

Dunno if anyone read the last chapter i posted, but I'm gonna make a final attempt to redeem this thread by posting Chapter 3 of Moominvalley in November.

>>19808544
>belongs more to the Ted crowd
Basado
t. /out/

>>19809178
Moominvalley in November
Chapter 3 - Fillyjonk
>One Thursday in November it stopped raining and Fillyjonk decided to wash the windows in the attic. She heated some water in the kitchen and sprinkled a little soap into it, only a little, then she carried the bowl upstairs, put it on a chair and opened the window. Then something came loose from the window-frame and fell close to her paw. It looked like a little bit of cotton fluff but Fillyjonk knew immediately what it was; it was a horrid chrysalis and inside it was a pale white caterpillar. She shivered and drew in her paws. Wherever she went, whatever she did, she always came across creepy-crawly things, they were everywhere! She took her duster and with a quick movement she swept the chrysalis out watching it roll down the roof, jump over the edge and disappear.
>Horrid, whispered Fillyjonk, and shook out her duster. She lifted up the bowl and climbed through the window to wash it from the outside.
>Fillyjonk was wearing her carpet slippers, and as soon as she stepped out on the steep wet roof she started to slide backwards. She didn’t even have time to feel afraid. She flung her skinny body forwards as quick as lightning, and in a giddy-making flash slid down the roof on her stomach, her slippers met the edge of the roof, and there she lay. Now she was scared. Fear crept through her and stuck like an inky taste in the throat. She blinked, but her eyes saw the ground far below, her jaws were locked tight with horror and astonishment and she couldn’t scream.
>Anyway, there was no one there to hear her. Fillyjonk had at last got rid of all her relatives and tiresome acquaintances. She had as much time as she wanted to look after her house and her solitude and fall off her own roof all by herself among the beetles and indescribable maggots in the garden.
>Fillyjonk made an agonized creeping movement upwards, her paws groped over the slippery metal roof but she slid back again and ended up where she had started from. The open window was banging in the wind, the wind sighed below in the garden, and time passed. A few drops of rain splashed on the roof.
>Then Fillyjonk remembered the lightning-conductor which went up to the attic on the other side of the house. Very, very slowly, she began to drag herself along the edge of the roof, first a little bit with one foot and then a little bit with the other. With her eyes tight shut and her stomach pressing against the roof, Fillyjonk crawled round her big house and all the time she kept remembering that she suffered from dizziness and what it was like when it came over her. Then she felt the lightning-conductor under her paw, grabbed it for dear life, and with her eyes tight shut, carefully pulled herself up to the floor above; there was nothing else in the whole world now except a thin wire with a fillyjonk suspended from it.

>>19808960
This is my favourite painting ever. The New Planet by Konstantin Yuon, Russian symbolist-futurist.

>>19809346
>She caught hold of the narrow wooden edging which went round the attic, pulled herself up and lay quite still. Gradually she got up on all fours and waited until her legs stopped shaking, and didn’t feel the slightest bit ridiculous. Step by step she began to go a little farther, her face against the wall. She came to window after window, but they were all closed. Her nose was too long and got in the way, her hair fell over her eyes and tickled her nose: I mustn’t sneeze, if I do I shall lose my balance… I mustn’t look and I mustn’t even think. The heel of one of my slippers is all twisted, nobody cares what happens to me, my corset is all wrinkled up somewhere and any second now of all these awful seconds…
>It started to rain again. Fillyjonk opened her eyes and saw the steep roof over her shoulder and the edge of the roof and the fall below it through nothing and her legs started to shake again and everything began to go round and round – the dizziness had come. It pulled her away from the wall, the edge she was standing on became as thin and narrow as a razor, and in one interminable second she tumbled all the way back through the whole of her fillyjonkish life. Very slowly she leant backwards, away from safety and towards the inexorable angle at which she would fall, was suspended there for what seemed like another eternity, and then sank forwards again.
>Now she was nothing at all, just something that was trying to make itself as flat as possible and move on. There was the window. The wind had slammed it tight shut. The window-frame was smooth and bare and there was nothing there to catch hold of and pull on, not even the smallest little nail. Fillyjonk tried with a hairpin, but it just bent. There inside she could see the bowl with the soapy water and the duster, an impassive picture of a commonplace, an unattainable world.
>The duster! It had got caught in the window-frame… Fillyjonk’s heart began to pound – she could see a little bit of the corner of the duster sticking out, she took hold of it, oh so carefully, and pulled it gently… Oh, please don’t let it break, let it be my lovely new duster and not the old one… I shall never save old dusters again, I shall never save anything again, I shall be extravagant, I shall stop cleaning up, I do too much of it anyway, I’m pernickety… I shall be something quite different but not a fillyjonk… This is what Fillyjonk thought, imploringly, but hopelessly, because a fillyjonk can never, of course, be anything but a fillyjonk.
>The duster held. Slowly the window opened again and the wind banged it against the wall and Fillyjonk flung herself headlong into the safety of the room and lay on the floor and her stomach started going round and round and she felt terribly sick.

>>19809361
>Above her head the lamp in the ceiling swayed to and fro in the wind, all its tassels swinging at a uniform distance from one another, each with a little bead on the end. She looked at them attentively, quite taken by surprise by the little tassels which she didn’t remember ever having seen before. And never before had she noticed that the lampshade was red, a very beautiful red reminding her of the sunset. Even the hook in the ceiling had a new and unusual shape.
>She began to feel a little better. She began to think how strange it was that everything that hangs from a hook really goes on hanging downwards and not in any other direction, and wondered what it depended on. The whole room had changed, everything looked new. Fillyjonk went up to the mirror and looked at herself. Her nose was covered in scratches on one side and her hair was dead straight and wet through. Her eyes looked different: fancy having eyes to see with, she thought, and how does one see…?
>She began to feel cold because of the rain, and because she had tumbled all the way through her life in a single second, and she decided to make herself a cup of coffee. But when she opened the cupboard in the kitchen, she saw for the first time that she had far too much china. Such an awful lot of coffee cups. Far too many serving dishes and roasting dishes, and stacks of plates, hundreds of things to eat from and eat on, and only one fillyjonk. And who would have them all when she died?
>I’m not going to die at all, whispered Fillyjonk, and shut the cupboard door with a bang. She ran into the living-room, she staggered round among the furniture in her bedroom and out again, she dashed into the drawing-room and drew back the curtains and then went up to the attic, and it was just as quiet everywhere. She left all the doors open, she opened the wardrobe where her suitcase lay, and at last she knew what she was going to do. She would go and stay with someone. She wanted to see people.
>People who talked and were pleasant and went in and out and filled the whole day so that there was no time for terrible thoughts. Not Hemulen, not Mymble, certainly not Mymble! But the Moomin family. It was about time that she went to see Moominmamma. You have to decide these things when you’re in a certain mood, and quickly, too, before the mood vanishes.
>Fillyjonk took out her suitcase and put her silver vase in it, Moominmamma should have that. She threw the water out on to the roof and closed the window. She dried her hair and put it in curlers, and then she drank her afternoon tea. The house had calmed down and was quite itself again. When Fillyjonk had washed up her tea cup she took the silver vase out of the suitcase and put a china one in instead. She lit the lamp in the ceiling because the rain had made it get dark early.
>What on earth came over me, Fillyjonk thought. That lamp-shade isn’t red at all. It’s a little brownish. But in any case, I’m going away.
The End.

I remember being very confused when Moomintroll tried to commit suicide by drowning himself.
Anyway they are all very good for reaction images

>>19798193
Read comic online, simple.

this thread is insane

>>19809009
Slow rot of this board definitely. I hate politics so much

>>19807320

That painting is awful

Wtf is happening in this thread

>>19810685
ITT we discovered Snufkin would loath being the New Reiche’s mascot, and they can’t take it.

>>19798116
>>19798137
I think it's best understood as a Swedish woman writing about Finns.

>>19810642
shut up

>>19810914
She was born in Finland. As was her father.

>>19810925
Hitler was talentless.

>>19810714
>we discovered
>If I say I am correct, then I am correct. No amount of discussion will change this.
You are literal retard Butters. Every post you make confirms this.

>>19811106
There was much debate, but we’ve come to this conclusion. He’s not a good fit. Just put a green hat on Pepe and call that your nazbol ecofash whatever mascot, you cringy fuck.

>>19811120
Translation:
I am angered that people who I don't like identify with a fictional character I do like, and as a result I will block my ears like a child and throw a fit.
Nothing, butters, that you can do will stop SSnufkin's use.

>>19811165
No. Translation
>There was much debate, but we have come to this conclusion. Snufkin is not a good fit with your retrofitted green fascism. You are more than welcome to use your Pepe mascot for these purposes, friend.
Go in peace.

>>19810685
I posted a pic of Snufkin with the Black Sun and derailed the thread into a discussion about ecofascism and Italian Futurism.
I am sorry, moominanons

>>19808544
Anarchoprimitivists, Ecofascists and Esoteric Hitlerists almost always overlap in one way or another.

>>19811471
Powdered water makes more sense.

>>19811359
Butters, since when have you started using the royal "we"? I never realized you had such a childlike response to people who disagree with you. "We", as in, more than one person, are in fact free to use Snufkin however we want.

>>19798078
I have never read a comic. Where should I start?

>>19811359
Cry about it

>>19811588
I’m not alone in telling you to leave the character alone. It doesn’t fit your ideology to use him.
It’s like using E.T. or Stephanie from LazyTown. Hell, Sportacus is a better fit I guess.
Snufkin isn’t the Hugo Boss type. I suggest you either rethink your political ideology or your wardrobe/mascot choice. Stop being such an idiot.

>>19811607
You’re the one crying.

>>19809396
I feel like it's hard to properly translate her whimsical and inventive style. Writing in Swedish, she tends to use very particular expressions that aren't entirely correct, but often make even more sense than the conventional ones.
Her expressions are very carefully crafted, so it's a case of "know the rules so you can break the rules".

>>19811809
How about, no? Nothing you say matters, butters. Nothing you say has any meaning, and nothing you say will change a single thing.

>>19811847
>nothing you say will change a single thing.

I think butters finally broke; you witness now the derranged rants of the mentally ill

>>19812001
A thread full of unironic Hitler tongue bathers is throwing a hissyfit trying to claim an old lesbian’s naturist character which patterned off of a socialist, and you say *I’m* deranged? Hilarious.

But that last bit. —I’ve been derisively called a Malthusian or neo-Malthusian w/e, and it just doesn’t change the facts of the situation. Now this guy above tries to tell me I can’t change the nature Snufkin, who we have established is not big on vapor-nationalism/esoteric-Hitlerianist/volkish genociders. No. Nothing *you* say is going to change the circumstances.

>>19811847
I have to agree with this guy. I am going to appropriate Moomins for fascism just because butters doesn't like it now.

>>19812094
I think you misunderstand butters. It doesn't matter what the original author intended Snufkin to represent. We don't care. Snufkin now represents what we want him to represent. THAT is what you cannot change; no amount of ranting will have any effect on this.

>>19812242
No one knew who Pepe was so you got away with passing him off as original property. The sheer number of people who know who Snufkin is and view your idea of him as wrong and retarded outnumbers your population, as do all the people you find undesirable.

>>19812246
It literally does not matter. He, *to us*, now represents something different.

Go on and try putting a Hitler mustache on E.T.
See what happens

>>19812253
>a contradiction in terms
War machine statists aren’t eco friendly, btw

>>19812274
https://facingtoday.facinghistory.org/examining-nazi-environmentalism-during-earth-week

>>19812274
What is interesting is that while I agree about Snufkin (considering you agreed with my post about his dislike for fences and walls) is the fact that Third Reich actually enabled shitload of green policies and it's elites, especially Himmler and Hitler, were very green in ther personal lives and opinions too. Especially Himmler who strongly disliked Goering for hunting and hurting animals, wanted the SS to go full vegetarian and wrote massive amounts of texts about nature preservation, animal welfare and others. Then there was Walther Darré, who was pretty much full eco-fascist and who wanted to largely get rid of cities and people living in small, self-contained village communities which would be 100% sustainable with nature.
Many authors claim that the Third Reich was the first state entity which enabled these policies on state level too. And while many also debate to what degree these were successfull, not many would say that nazis weren't green.
This is especially interesting when you check how contemporary communists tackled these green topics - they simply did not, at best centralized worst nature raping around cities. So what is today considered as traditionally left themes (animal welfare, animal fair diets, natural preservation, etc.) was originally pretty much a nazi thing, while wild industrialization and disregard for nature was as left as left could go then.

>>19812316
They naturally tried to unite the German speaking world, appealing to Catholics and Protestants, sounding/seeming like socialism, and being “green” like AOC. And it would make sense to encourage vegetarian diets as their self sufficiency was starting to strain. But the fact of the matter is, they where a ravenous state and decided to annex neighboring states to steal their resources, quarantine minorities and escalate a war. Those are quite destructive and no amount of “green” policy made up for the first week of fighting it.
It was all a show, a canard for the sheeple

>>19812348
You are in denial butters. Your view of the national socialists doesn't mesh with the ecological policies and opinions they held. "How could this be? I *know* the Nazis were horrible people! Why, it must be that this was a sham! Ah, that's it. The weren't *really* enironmentalists. It was all just a ploy to get at those lovely Jews."

>>19812359
I am nowhere near Egypt.
>A state’s policies are super serious things and they never lie about such things
Can you hear the giggle fits?

>>19812348
There was no unified approach to Catholicism and Protestantism. If anything, there was an ongoing internal struggle between "good old" Prussian anti-catholicism/Kulturkampf, realpolitiks towards the Catholics and Papal state and pagan tendencies of (not exclusively) Himmler and the SS.
>Being "green" like AOC
That is not really true, anon. They *were* green, both their private personal life, writings and policies they enacted prove this.
>it would make sense to encourage vegetarian diets as their self sufficiency was starting to strain
That would surely make sense, however they were like this even long time before the war. They started enabling green policies as early as they took power and tried to push green laws even before that time.
>war
War is war. We can debate who started it, what were causes of it, but this is simply a non-argument from your side, since war is a special condition. War changed nothing about nazis being green. Also I have to ask, since when "quarantining minorities" or taking resources from conquered are somehow related to ecology?
>it was all a show
Why? Look, either we can talk in practical and factual terms (and you seem to be able to do so, as you did with Snufkin here) or you can go full emotional like this.

>>19801236
No it's direct evidence of female obsession with brands and the illusion of value. Every finnish woman has dozens of them and they justify collecting them by saying they're worth money just like with iittala and arabia. It's the female funko pop.

>>19812375
I think, butters, if any state was ever considered "serious" about their policies, Nazi Germany would certainly be one of them

>>19812390
You don't even have to read the originals, modern contemporary authors who are strictly on anti-fascist political positions wrote plenty of books about it too. For example: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674660434 This is fairly good book which uses solely primary sources for everything. Not many people understand to what degree Nazis were green, some things are straight up from modern vegan's playbook.

always felt like there was this sinister undercurrent behind the kid friendly exterior

>>19812398
That looks pretty interesting. Thanks anon, I think I'll order that book

>>19812415
It is a valuable book. Author basically scoured every archive in existence and he put together citations about ideological pillars of the worldview and just adds short commentary, then another citation, etc. Most of the time his commentary is not really worth it (he seethes a lot), but the citations are often priceless as you can't really read these elsewhere - at least without perfect German and physically going to these archives.
You have personal correspondence between Himmler and Hitler, you have articles from the magazine(s) of the SS, HJ and other branches, ideological notes from researchers from various Reich offices, etc. Good unique primary sources.

Honestly Snufkin reminds me more of Wandervogel/Jugendbewegung type Konservative Revolution than NS proper.

He could serve very well as a representation of that Antibürger, romantic revival spirit with its fascination with local folklore and medieval history, fleeing from industrialised cities, lone forest roaming etc

>>19812430
If anything, he is literally Jünger's Waldgänger. A sole traveler, rugged individualist with strong morals, with just a little hint of some anarchist themes.

>>19812434
>If anything, he is literally Jünger's Waldgänger. A sole traveler, rugged individualist with strong morals who fought in a war
There’s more than a strong hint of anarchist about him.

>>19799872
>why do girls like cute things
let's not overthink this one anon