/lit/ - Literature

Two Billy shelves coming tomorrow, bros. I'm excited to get my books on them.

>>20060132
alcoholism

There is no reason to own books. Waste of space and just a manifestation of consumerism. I don't own a single physical book.

>>20060132
Military history shelves are my favorite type of shelves

>>20060218
Based and anti-consumerism-pilled. Buying physical books only contributes to the printing industrial-complex.

>>20060227
Big Book is behind this!

>>20060218
To only own digital books is actually more bugman behavior than owning a collection of physical books. What do you do when civilizations break down and electronic devices don't function anymore? Don't you want to hand over books to your kids? Can't really do that in a digital way.

>>20060234
You can charge ereaders with a handcrank and get a few months of battery life out of it. Store it in a thick safe or Faraday cage and it will survive an EMP strike. If looters come and you need to flee you can't take all your heavy physical books with you.

>>20060218
Once you own a book, the information within it can't be taken away from you. It doesn't require electricity to operate. It can't be updated/modified to reflect modern tastes. Your subscription doesn't expire. This counts for something, and will count for more and more as time goes on.

>>20060234
Why would civilization ever break down at the rate it is developing? You could always pass down the knowledge you've gained from the books as opposed to the books themselves. You could even write books of your own to transcribe your wisdom for time eternal. The mind is already the largest space you own and to not take advantage of it is to defer rationality in favor of some morality of ownership.

>>20060227
I buy used books almost as a rule
>>20060265
>tfw when living in a post apocalyptic world and your ereader battery will no longer hold a charge and most of the memory has corrupted
>>20060273
The only thing they have in life is preparing for a time when everyone will be as miserable as they are now.

>>20060218
>mandatory software update to proceed using the ebook
>patch notes: removed problematic titles. slightly corrected selected works. added warnings for under review titles. removed selected works based on the new Rules of Ethics. Read HERE for more info
oops i did it again

>>20060265
There's something quintessentially uncultured in reading books by staring at a screen. I like owning physical books, touching them, looking at how beautiful they like in my collection, preserving them. And since I'm into military history ebooks of that genre are notoriously bad, maps look bad on them, when you zoom in the resultion sucks ass.

>>20060132
any of you guys fully stacked some of those billy shelves? did they overly bend in time to a pure U? did they break? by fully stacked i mean one vertical row of hardcovers and on top of them filled up with horizontal hardcovers. I saw somewhere although I can not find the source at all that for a medium length one as the OP's there's a max of 30kgs but they don't mention if the value is for bending of rupture.

>>20060289
>tfw when living in a post apocalyptic world and marauders burn your library to the ground
nothin personal, kid

I have both a kindle and a home library and while I love my kindle for being more comfortable in bed and easier when travelling, I don't want to look at screens anymore. I'm looking at a screen at work, then at my personal laptop's screen, my phone screen, my tv when watching movies... Jesus Christ, I've learned to appreciate the paper books more and more.

I have a Kindle and the only thing I read on it is fantasy suggestions from my friends because I don't like fantasy that much so I don't want to spend money on physical copies, even just a few dollars for used books.

>>20060418
Why does it matter if you look at a screen or not? Seems quite touchy for you when it's a rather nonessential part of reading. Would you also be upset at the thought of data simply being beamed into your brain as well if such technology were to be invented? What of stories around the fire? Does the ear tire of words and favor the eye? What of reading with an artificial light over the sun or the flickering of a candle? Why does one carry such a burden that mustn't be carried simply to say that one appreciates another thing of higher stature?

>>20060375
That's what happens when you use autoconnected kindle shit instead of 13" eresders designed for professionals using PDFs.

>>20060410
>digs through the abandon city and amasses a new library in a day
Books would be largely ignored by most everyone in such a situation, people will have more important things on their minds.

>>20060503
Except thats wrong. Especially in the winter when it's cold. And people these days are concerned with ideology. Burning books would allow you to shape the future.

>>20060218
whatever device you use to read on, plus the infrastructure required to deliver the files to the device, is also a "manifestation of consumerism"

>>20060536
books really don't burn well without some other fuel, that fuel would be more valuable for other things. They would be last resort for burning. The sorts of books which would be burned to "shape the future" are not really of interest to me. Ultimately if such a thing happened I would happily just walk out into the forest and live my life.

>>20060567
A lesser one with a smaller footprint. And less costly too. Imagine wasting space in your house for books.

>>20060218
And you will be happy

>>20060643
I am.

27 replies and only two real shelves to glance at.

>>20060218
good boy remember you will own nothing and be happy

>>20060218
>he is not currently adding to his multi-generational library and leaving marginalia in his classical works of literature and philosophical masterpieces for his great grand-children to read
Categorically and unequivocally not going to make it.

>>20060643
>>20060873
Except not spending your money on consoomashit enables you to save money and own actual assets, instead of books with limited liquidity and virtually no second hand value. I already own and have saved more than you. Meanwhile, you're blowing your money on books. You're spending money on book cases. You're doing this primarily for decorations. The person who will own no land, have no assets, and no power are copers like you.

>>20060220
Obsessed with Stalingrad, eh?

>>20060220
Some philosophy

>>20060920
lol please you probably spend on your money on other dumb shit like drugs

>>20060940
History

>>20060960
More history

>>20060907
I unironically fantasise about this sometimes.

>>20060954
Cope more. I invest all my spare money.

>>20060920
I will have a library to pass down to my son. He will expand it and pass it down to his. It will be a monument to triumphs of man contained within our home that will love. Why? Because there is a magic in the act of holding a book. There is a magic, and I do mean a literal magic, in the act of reading an actual physical book and building a home for them.

You will pass along a shitty Kindle that your son will try to look up porn on.

>>20060978
I'll have a good life and a house or a few houses to pass down to all my kids because I didn't waste money on books that they'll need to throw out when the landlord kicks them to the curb because they couldn't make rent.

>>20060920
Books are cheap and a non-expense unless you are working a minimum wage job or neet. Never denied myself books and I managed to be ready and able to retire at 35, not buying books might have shaved a few months off of that at best.

>>20061039
>Books are cheap
Books are $20+ a book unless you buy used. Collecting a library of 1000 of them will set you back $20k.

>>20061044
>buying books anywhere but thrift stores

>>20061044
>I am going to make my point with cover price because I know it can not stand otherwise
As I said, all of my books might have knocked a few months off when I was able to retire, at best.

>>20061051
>thinking you'll accumulate a library that will be 'monument to triumphs of man' [sic] at a goodwill store
You will never have a real library. You have no Aquinas, you have no Ovid, you have no Eliot. You are a delusional man twisted by mass market paper backs and Patterson novels, a crude mockery of literature's perfection.

All the “deals” you get are for two-bit and soulless works. Openly, your children and grandchildren will mock your marginalia. Your parents are disgusted and ashamed of your home, and your psychiatrist notes compulsive hoarding behavior in his notes.

Discerning readers are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of publishing have allowed them to see frauds with just a glance at your shelves. Even finds that wind up there, like the Bible, look uncanny and unnatural in the midst of the rows of PBS cookbooks. Your Chicken Soup for the Soul is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get your sons or daughters to read one of these pieces of shit, they'll turn tail and bolt the second the mildew and cat piss leeches from the pages and into their cribriform plate, frying their olfactory bulbs.

You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight of your books.

Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your kids will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable boxes of books that occupied most of their bedrooms growing up. They’ll donate them back where they came from or to the curb. Your books will eventually be thrown out, and crumble to dust, and all that will remain of your monument are trace amounts of cellulose and carbon

This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.

>>20061158
>You will never have a real library. You have no Aquinas, you have no Ovid, you have no Eliot.
Those are all glut on the used market, every used book store will have a dozen editions of each to choose from with even great condition hardcovers being like $5.

>>20060218

Haha. Post pod, soÿbugman.

>>20060273

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

>doesn’t read anything but jew fiction
>’how could civilisation ever break down’

Retard

>>20061186

Ovid was only partially human.

>>20061186
kek, I never saw a copy of the Summa anywhere other than Half Priced Books. Thrift Stores don't have CRC Press books or major philosophical works.

>>20060920
>limited liquidity and virtually no second hand value.
Who said I want to sell them, stupid Amerilard.
Also, I don't give a fuck about your rat race bullshit. I have enough money already and I can actually enjoy the good things in life with it instead of being a neurotic retard.

>>20061310
as I said
>every USED BOOK STORE will have a dozen editions of each to choose from

Crafted from exotic split,-radial grained walnut, this dangerous bshelf represents the celebration of life as one practices death. It's neither secured to the wall, nor safe to sit near. Its construction forms the final cotter pin in an elaborate life insurance scheme only Patricia Highsmith could formulate.

>>20061623
Some new additions of old editions include a few buckrams

>>20061623
Absolutely gorgeous piece. Perhaps investing into building one's own shelf is worth it after all.

>>20061636
I do enjoy my cute little octavos, it's a shame the shelf won't last, due to the exotic grain.

>>20061623
How can someone with such good taste in books be such an annoying prick?

>>20061638
Thanks, go to your local sawmill and ask for offcuts and errors. This one was mostly made from extras when we changed dimension and wood type.

These are some of my favorites

>>20061651
Getting the (You)s are all he has in life and being an annoying prick is a sure way to get the (You)s. Seems fairly obvious.

>>20061651
Over the years the reality of modern tastes has taught me the pettiness of my peers and the wrong headedness of their opinions. Most struggle to even understand the difference between a word like annoy and irritate, for instance, and it pains me to associate with such types.

>>20061662
Have I so vexed you sir? Your covetous sour grapes please and feed me.

>>20061673
what is the difference between annoy and irritate?

t. a poor, wrong-headed wretch

>>20061742
The same as not having a shelf or any discussion of shelves. Why don't you talk books?

>>20060850

>>20061765
i'm just an innocent bystander who was curious about the finer points of the words. you brought it up.

>>20061623
Having little tea and sweet potato scones the kids made today, my desk shelf normally has 2-5 books

>>20060907
>implying they won't just throw it out
>"ugh, grandpa has so many fucking books"

>>20061662
Well that and the kids, wife, and book collections...

>>20060220
t. Tik or boomer

>>20060920
Unless you exclusively buy recent academic releases books should be no serious expense.

>>20061623
I liked your shelf the first time it was posted

Soon.
soon...

>>20062157
Thanks, I need another on the side or in the bedroom. There's a stack of books on the floor. This room will be a nursery in three months.

>>20060376
>>20060375
These guys know, and screen time is generally bad, I get less than two hours a day now. It's all all pen paper and books. Oh, outdoor time too.

>>20060402
Mine bent and racked, sold them for 30 each to a college firl

>>20060418
>>20060480
Screen time changes brain chemistry.

>>20062149
This. A new book at ~$15 a week isn’t a wallet killer. And I’m waiting on inheritance money anyway

>>20060402
Mine is fine just don't overload every shelf full of books. Put some nicknames, pictures, vases, whatever on it

>>20060920
Yeah, I buy lots of books, have over a thousand of them. They're 50 cents to 10 each, avg is around 3 for good hardcover books. I finance my book collections by selling old video games. Just sold 5 Dreamcast games for 600.

>>20060218
>>20060920
You got a little dick or something? Who the fuck cares what other people do.

>>20060960
Neat books, I like history too

>>20061158
This is great, bravo for the rewrite, but I don't buy modern books except everyman. Most of what I own is unique.

This needed a little TLC, so some patchwork and paint and now it's ready to be replaced with a bigger one

>>20062465
Dick and dune and maybe the job with a 2 are the only books I like here, nice color though.

We chose that color for the kids' room, "April rain", looks like Woodlawn silverbrook too

>>20060850
you may be in need of a dehumidifier

>>20061158
Tfw I buy books that usually go for 80€+ for a tenner or less on ebay

>>20062465
That's the Dune edition I'm after, with the Bruce Pennington cover. Unfortunately everyone else seems to be after it too, as prices are high even for reprints from the early 80s. I have got the Pennington editions for Dune Messiah, Children of Dune and God Emperor though (No Pennington covers for the others sadly).

>>20062681
It looks like there was a leak, you can see the dark spot from water. Those look to be some sort of inky cap, which strongly suggests they could use some mice traps, inky caps mostly grow where there is a good amount of dung.

>>20060960
I see what you did there

>>20061673
Nah, you won't convince me the English language is some sophisticated ordeal. I've given up on using the difficult latin words with you a long time ago.

>>20062352
Based

>>20060183
Assembled them and I'll put the books maybe this evening or tomorrow.
Put my kindle there for le ebin joke.

>>20061623
>shoes on shelf

>>20062348
t. Ron Pearlman.

viele Deutsche hier

>>20063951
have a le ebin laugh

I'm doing a little light construction, and need advice on the trim to finish the shelf. What should I do for the top?

>>20067321
I have a few different router bits for different profiles. The Roman Ogee is fairly traditional, but maybe a cove facing out would be good?

>>20067321
>>20067325
>shelf thread
>posts actual shelving
Go to /diy/ and stay there, you faggot.

>>20067333
he literally posted his shelf with all the books on it you tard

>>20067509
kys, faggot lover.

>>20061813
ransid

Junior year of undergrad

>>20068681
I read that Dante, how'd you like it?

>>20060850
perfect alignment of quality of books/quality of life

>>20060968
>>20060960
A man after my heart

>>20060220
Super based military hist bro
I, too, am a collector of WWII books

I finally bought a bookshelf today, I still need to get the rest of my books out of my closet.
>>20068681
Are you a philosophy major? I'm in my senior year and it's probably pretty obvious what I'm majoring in from my shelf.

>>20071822
>it's probably pretty obvious what I'm majoring in from my shelf.
Advanced studies in faggotry?

>>20071822
General studies, minor in weaving

>>20060850
I was so disgusted by the book selection at first I didn't even notice the shrooms

Meh

>>20072710
>Horowitz and Hill Art of Electronics
>Cormen's Intro to Algos
CE?

>>20072775
Embedded systems developer. Self taught. (I'm 32 if that matters).

>>20062689
I own a copy!

>>20060968
>Anaconda Verlag
fucking plebs i swear

>>20060850

This is my shelf minus some poetry and all the classics I own.
>I fucking hate my phone

>>20060218
You will own nothing and be happy

Also, reminder that ebook readers who think they’re superior for not participating in materialism is like NFT collectors thinking that they’re superior to a regular art collector.

>>20073359
*ahem*
that unfinished rubik's cube will now be the first thing you notice every time you look at your shelf anon

>>20073548
It's been unfinished for over 6 years now. I got it in year 7 and never even tried, it was my cousin who got the white face.

>>20060920
>actual assets, instead of books with limited liquidity and virtually no second hand value
This is what capitalism does to your brain. Not even once.

>>20063951
Posting just because.
It's around 33% history and philosophy, 33% mostly classics fiction, 33% books about art and cinema and 1% Asterix comics.

>>20074039
oт къдe ги взимaш, книжeн пaзap(caйтa)?

>>20060132
I am sharing only one bookcase. I have a few newer books I haven't added yet. Top row is religious material, second row is stuff on wildlife, third row is largely weird fiction & horror, and fourth row is just miscellaneous.

My other two bookcases are full of art books, wildlife photography, nature books that were unable to fit, children's chapter books, picture books, computer science manuals, and so on. I will share those other two bookcases if anyone else is interested. However, they are much messier than this one.
>>20060218
Focusing at blue light for long periods is not good for health. Even with a f.lux or other software that gives a warmer color, the negative impact will still be there.

>>20075028
Книжeн пaзap, нo и ayкциoн.бг и olx. Книжeн пaзap e хyбaв, чe oпиcвaт cъcтoяниeтo нa книгaтa, oт дpyгитe cъм пoпaдaл нa кoфти книги.

Serious question, guys: how do you remember what you read with physical books? I like having an e-reader, which allows me to export all my digital highlights into a central notes database that is searchable. But I can't do that with a physical book. I find taking notes in the margin to take me out of the "flow" of reading, and finding what I want is really hard to find after a month (as opposed to searching it in my online notes database).

Any advice?

>>20075182
I just wrote a short thematic analysis for fiction, and I write a short summary of interesting points for nonfiction. Also, I do highlight very sparingly for nonfiction but never with fiction.

>>20073834
why tho?

>>20075182
>How do you remember what you read with physical books?
Have you tried not being stupid

>>20075343
Fuck off, you can't honestly remember the exact statistics and dates from a book you read one year ago. That's why you take notes. Having an over-inflated sense of self is the root of stupidity.

>>20075182
>>20075384
Just buy a notebook lmao

>>20075384
oh but i can stop being a memorylet and get off the internet

>>20075189
>wrote
write*
Ignore my typos.

>>20073371
You'll be the own owning nothing because you chose to buy books. As a result of this miscalculated, and financially retarded decision, you will be the one barred from having the means to buy land and invest. I will have freedom, real assets. You'll have a pile of books that you haul into whatever pod they force you in.

>>20062335
name of that book?

>>20077743

>>20077715
The landmark herodotus. It's great, you should check into the others because they're cheaper, the Thucydides, Cesar, Xenephon, etc.

>>20077749
I would buy that varieties from you. It looks like a privately printed Aldus Society or some such version.

>>20060218
>I don't own a single physical book.
This should be /lit/s official motto

>>20060920
>virtually no second hand value
So... buy second hand books?

>>20061623
kek at memories of 'carpenter' anon abusing this bookshelf's supposed lack of safety and thread turning into carpentry-101

>>20060850
Anon what the fuck

>>20077060
Bruh, let's say you've bought 1000 books in your life, which is a reasonably nice size for a personal library. That's around 15k dollars or Euros, spread through several decades.
What kind of properties would you buy with 15k? Or investments?
You're a moron.

>>20068681
always nice to see Bakhtin

>>20073359
This is my favorite of the thread — is this thread part of your professional or personal interests?

>>20060218
And you'll be HAPPY!

>>20078573
Just all personal intrest. I enjoy history, some people don't like academic texts but I never understood that. Not sure if I have a high tolerance but I've only ever read one thing that truly was a boring drag.

>>20060218
HAHAHAHAHA

>>20060218
>I don't own a single physical book.
You don't own any books at all.

>>20078101
The riverside press, 1925

>>20062435
Nyt on peisetti

>>20078673
>>20077060

>>20078446
One of the biggest reasons people are poor is because they fail to see how small purchases affect their lives. Most wagies spend $20k on a car and they spend the rest of their lives paying for that bad decision. If you have passive income above and beyond your job, like rental properties or $500k in high dividend stocks, then sure it won't set you back much. There is another thread right now where some autist admitted to spending $700 the a month the past few on books. These have virtually no resell value and are illiquid. You can learn the same information from a digital version and you could get millions of dollars worth of books for literally free. The only justification for acquiring physical copies is look at me consumerism.

>>20079291
I gave you an example of 15k over several decades, not 700 a month.

>>20079291
So you answer is, make money, but don't spend that money on the things you enjoy?

>>20079306
It adds up.
>>20079367
You enjoy the decoration of the books. Not the books themselves. 95% of books can be had for $0.00 in digital format and paper can be perfectly imitated on an eink display.

>>20079385
It doesn't matter what I enjoy or why I enjoy it - if it brings me joy and I have money to afford that enjoyment, there is no reason for me no to do it.

>>20079367
A certain kind of /biz/ autists enjoy making money and seeing the line go up. It's just who they are.
I very much doubt that guy reads books anyway (except stuff related to making money).

>>20079291
I'm less certain. I mostly but valuable books used. They're quite valuable, I recently sold a book my wife wanted off the shelf (a politically suspect book) for just over 20 times what I paid in the used book shop.
I could list a couple of my modern library buckrams online and get 100 times what I paid.

Anyway, we budget, drive used cars each (bought my one year old VW for less than half it's value, bought the minivan 4 years old) and we own a house, have 6 fig. retirement, etc in our mid thirties. I've spent at least 1000 on books this year.

>>20079440
I own a Sony Digital Paper 13". I read more books than everyone in this thread combined.

>>20079459
Post proofs.

>>20079458
I'm this person

>>20079459
No you don't.

>>20071822
Welcome to the Billy club.

Best regards,
>>20062435

>>20079291
>only justification
Or the preference for paper over a screen.
Or the fact that books can be purchased for less than a cup of coffee at a thrift store.
Or that you don't need to pay for internet/data/e-reader with paper.

>spending $700 on books
Ok, but that isn't the norm. I personally think it's much stranger/autistic downloading "millions dollars worth of books" (or $700 worth) that are probably never going to be read. That's time you're never getting back, which is arguably a more valuable resource than money.

>because they fail to see how small purchases affect their lives.
True, but a book is a much better purchase than a daily McDonalds meal or whatever people usually throw their money at. It'd be hard to find someone who doesn't spend a small portion of their money on minor indulgences.

>look at me consumerism
Funny, coming from the guy basically shilling e-readers.

>>20079608
You can't eat books.

>>20079291
Most people's libraries suck ass, and I am fine with the idea of them suffering from poor spending habits.

Guys I've just ran out of onions mind handing me a bottle?

I love with my mom and I stole a couple of these from the local library. Third shelf is hidden by desk

>>20080228
>stealing from library
Why? You can just check out the books whenever you want for free.

>>20080228
muh gaymer headset mouse RGB keyboard and pseudshelf ... I hate this

>>20080228
I scootched my desk. The third shelf is what I’m trying to get through this year. I never was a big reader so I looked at a /lit/ list and added Ulysses, Infinite Jest and The Recognitions. Realistically this will last me well into next year bc I read at a snail’s pace.
>>20080392
With the amount of time that has past I’m embarrassed to walk them in. I’d leave them in a box on the steps like an orphaned oriental infant.
>>20080403
boohoo bud

>>20061765
lmao incomplete sets and 6th editions, just pulp them and start over

>>20080600
>Ulysses, Infinite Jest and The Recognitions
don't bother with those bloated turds, they are not good at all

>>20080392
library host sex offenders reading to children now they deserve to be stolen from

>>20067321
I hate this faggot so much bros

>>20073359
what are those three books in the very top left?

>>20060132

>>20080228
>I love with my mom

>>20081780
>he doesn't love his mom
ywhdmi

>>20077743
Nice
What's under 1177?

>>20082544
Contact McCarthy - border trilogy

>>20082574
Oh cool halfway through The Crossing now.

>>20081576
Jonathan Sumption's 'Hundred Years war' series. Books 2-4

>>20081454
No books?

>>20081424
At least you have some books.

>>20080764
Have any books of your own?

>>20080403
Have you books or a better setup to contribute?

>>20080068
As long as you show some books.

>>20079919
What kind of shelf do you have?

>>20079897
This is thread is about books and shelves for them.

>>20079474
Post books.

>>20060375
>what is offline mode

>>20080764
I've got plenty of first editions, like these, but I just enjoy handsome, well-bound books that I enjoy reading. Those Aldus books are complete, the Shakespeare, Decameron, and Ferdinand Isabella while the Stevenson and the Gibbon are there, in the living room amongst those other books, for a reason. The companions exist in my possession at another location.

These days I'll take an everyman's, Heritage, an older folio society, or a private printing to a first edition for readability.

>>20072710
Yo those shelves going to break

>>20081788
esl

>>20072710
>>20084069
Not him, I think plywood is ugly, but it's stable.

That's half inch plywood, your home is likely made from the same material, even though you're supposed to use thicker for sheathing, people even use 1/4!

It resists warp better because the grain alternates so the tree's tendency to return to its shape is defeated.

>>20078150
>should
Not "is"?

>>20079291
>See, the problem with poor people is they buy too many BOOKS.

>>20079608
>I personally think it's much stranger/autistic downloading "millions dollars worth of books" (or $700 worth) that are probably never going to be read.
Book preppers. Their obsession is with preparation, not with reading. They'll never understand why you would spend a little cash on something just to enjoy it because they don't enjoy things. They spend all their time preparing to enjoy things.

>>20080228
>I love with my mom

>>20082906
How is Bellamy? Never read it, but it's supposed to be influential throughout feminist utopian and socialist fiction.

>>20084069
Assuming he hit studs, no they're not. Try building something not in minecrap, zoomer.

>>20084509
Assume I fucked your mom

>>20084536
Should've gone with STUDDED your mom - talk about missed opportunities

>>20084536
>Assume I fucked your mom

>>20084482
>>20084467
My job is to read and write, many of my books are purchased with dedicated be funds. Also, publishers send you free 100 dollar books, I'd never read some otherwise. Also get proof copies sometimes

>>20084496
It captures my attention, I had never read more than a few passages, you can definitely see the influence on other such stories like Futurama, etc.