/lit/ - Literature

>>20415661
>I get the impression that this is just a lefty propaganda pamphlet, that has no interest in offering a balanced view of history

This is an accurate assessment.

>as someone who isnt super duper well versed in american history its a good start right?
You already identified it as biased propaganda. Why would you think it is a good starting point instead of something more neutral?

its well written and well researched. I don't agree with chunks of it but I'm not a plebian who can only tolerate ideas that only serve to confirm my biases.

>>20415681
>nuancecuck
Ew
>>20415661
Ignore it. It should be burned, really.

>>20415661
>People's X
This is Marxist terminology which should tell you enough.

>>20415674
>>20415681
>>20415746
>>20415764
I just wanna know if I'll learn some cool shit if I discern the marxist garbage

What serious American History books are worth reading?

Typical marxist propaganda, don't read it unless you want to fit in with the tranny freak cult.

>>20415661
Most history books are not offering a balanced view of history. Wtf does that mean anyway? Read the fucking tin! It's a people's history bitch. Are you a person? Maybe not. Maybe it's not for you. In popular history things that were important to Capitalists like tarrifs and trade deals were talked about but not the violent struggles between labor and capital or the mass extermination of native Americans. The criticism that's leveraged against him nowadays isn't that he's wrong but that it's not interesting. Every historian knows what he's talking about and accepts his facts so you cant say that scholarly history is in the wrong on this. It's just the textbooks we give to kids paints this whitewashed, simple narrative where America is the good guy and we were just so dang amazing and moral all the time. Of course this has lead to a dumb, uncritical populous of sheep who goes along with whatever slaughterhouses the wolves send them to. This book need to be required reading by every highschooler.

>>20415770
Read the book then look up the facts. Everything he talks about is well documented. You can disagree with his analysis but when the government sends death squads to slaughter workers for the crime of not showing up to work it's fairly difficult to disagree.

>>20415770
Not really. I mean yes it has some stuff that wouldn’t be in textbooks but your average Marxist/libertarian could tell you how the CIA intervenes in Latam so it’s not uber esoteric knowledge.

>>20415661
Its a slave moralists account of American history. Just burn it and videotape it and then send the video to the author

>>20415980
Slave morality and master morality are equally bad. Read both sides and ascend past them.

>>20415986
Le both sides bad
I am very intelligent

>>20415661
Read Settlers

>>20415990
That was literally the point of The Geneology of Morality. If you didn't understand it thats fine but don't use the terms without doing the readings.

>>20415998
Gay and retarded

>>20415998
No one should ever do that

>>20415986
How about no

>>20416019
Never read Nietszche, so I don’t care. He was just a seething incel.

>>20415998
Based

>>20416038
Then you're a drooling retard for using the ideas and terminology he coined outside of their context and incorrectly. Tell me again, which of his books have you read?

Only book on American history anyone should read is Albion's Seed

>>20416066
I wasn’t even the guy you responded to originally(>>20415980). Just >>20415990

>>20416087
Then you should ignore posts using philosophical concepts you don't have a grasp of and refrain from speaking until you have done the readung.

>>20415998
>it's not settling when the settlers are Chinese because, uh, it just isn't, okay?

>>20416080
Not the Oxford History of the United States?

>>20415661
There definitely is a left bias to it, but it is absolutely not overwhelming. The book is well researched with a lot of quotes and history not found in the usual text books. He doesn't just shit of Republicans the whole time nor is he an apologist for democrats. It'd easy enough to filter out the Marxist slant and appreciate the history he documents

>>20416106
No

>>20416124
The Chinese are a historically progressive people, so their conquests and colonization throughout history have been justified. Europe would still be living in mudhuts if not for the Chinese.

>>20416146
Muy basado

>>20416146
Then you're retarded and a detriment to any intellectual discussion you're a part off. Why not go play cod instead of being a pseud?

>>20416165
Posting this while I’m in between Fortnite rounds actually lmao. Listening to some Lil Pump and hitting the bong fr

>>20416146
Imagine being this proud of being a retard

Marxism is pretty much indispensable to understanding political economy, especially in America, the heartland of global capitalism.

Just ignore the conservative retards in this thread and approach the book with an open mind

>>20416169
based

>>20415661

>history taught with bias towards white people
>take that bias away and show what white people left out that actually answers why their white history didn't make sense and had no evidence, and now the evidence makes sense.

OH THE LEFTIST BIAS !!!!! OMFG!!!!!!

>>20416169
Holy based zoomer

>>20416156
This. China is the reason for every technical achievement in Europe. Europeans are so stupid that they didn't have an iron plow until over a thousand years after China

>Used to make long straight rows for rice and basedbeans, the iron plow was found in the northern part of Central China and dates around 475-220 BC. Early plows were small and handheld. [2] Animal drawn plows appeared around the 1st century BC. Europe had iron plows around 1000 A.D. In the 1600's, improved iron plows were brought to Holland from China and might be credited for the beginning of the Agricultural Revolution. the first completely iron plow was developed sometime in the 1700s, but farmers were worried about iron poisoning the soil. [2] China was also the first country in the world to use an iron plow. [2] Heavy iron plows were invented in Han Dynasty China around 100 B.C.E. Despite a number of innovations, the Romans never achieved the heavy wheeled moldboard plow. [2]

I've noticed a lot of unironic /leftypol/ shilling over the last 24 hours. There must have been either a raid planned on bunkerchan or some tranny discord getting riled up. Btw any responses calling me obsessed or delusional just proves my point.

>>20416218
>Btw any responses calling me obsessed or delusional just proves my point
Obsessed and delusional. If you think this proves your point, you're just proving my point

>>20416218
Meds

>>20416230
>>20416233
Anyone with enough braincells can notice you using the exact same terminology in every single one of your post's. Whether it's calling people Chud's or engaging in sophistry, it's always apparent that you are a mentally ill leftist from a stagnant board that was created because you are too sensitive for /pol/.

>>20416264
I’m begging you to take your meds.

>>20416264
Oh no leftysisters, this extremely intelligent and totally not braindead paranoid loser has figure us out.

>>20416274
>>20416300

>>20415905
>You can disagree with his analysis but when the government sends death squads to slaughter workers for the crime of not showing up to work it's fairly difficult to disagree.
It is very easy to disagree when you aren't an ideologue whose understanding of learning is chopping fuel for ideology.

>>20416837
Gteat! Can you please explain why, in non-ideological terms, when the coal company thugs set up machine guns on trains to mow down miners on strike in their own legal tents the government sided with the coal companies? (Life, work, and rebellion in the coal fields: the southern West Virginia miners, 1880–1922 David, Corbin (1981))

>>20416886
Not him but
>citing a book without a page number
Pseud alert

>>20417137
Cope, seethe, dilate etc

>>20415661

Howard Zinn is a total fraud. One of the worst historians of the 20th Century, abd a massive negative influence on the culture and the field:

https://www.amazon.com/Fake-History-Generation-Against-America/dp/1621577732

Sadly, he's not alone. Stephen Ambrose and Barbara Tuchman were also awful, huge negative influences, and they were both hugely popular themselves.

Don't read Zinn. It's seven-hundred pages you'll never get back:

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/howard-zinns-history-lessons

>>20416165
>>20416192
Go to bed Chang

>>20416182
We created civilization numbnuts

>>20416176
>Marxism is pretty much indispensable to understanding political economy
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAA
Literally no one cares about your shitty labor theory of value.

-It took a lot of hard work to make this basket! It worth 100$ for me.
-I have 10 baskets at home. I don't need it.
-But I am hungry! I need the money!
-Ok. I take it for 20$.
-But the labor theory of value...
-Fuck off! Bye!
why do people regularly pay hundreds of thousands of dollars more for houses built with the same materials and labor, in the same city, where the only difference is neighborhood? Why do leftists allow themselves to be exploited by landlords by living in apartments instead of buying a more spacious double-wide manufactured home with a yard at a far lower cost? Commies are so fucking retarded, disproving them almost gets boring after a while. You retards have an economic system that wasn't true in the 1800s when it was created, and still isn't true today.
College brainwashing is one hell of a drug.

>>20417194
>We created civilization numbnuts
Quite literally the worst thing to ever happen in the history of life itself. Congrats

>>20416300
I can't tell if you're raiding or are just genuinely retarded and oblivious to the obvious /leftypol/ presence here. Either way you're a complete fucking idiot.

>>20417246
Then go fucking turn off your computer made and given to you by civilization and kill yourself you nigger worshipping mongrel.

>>20417254
>muh culture war
You're retarded for giving a fuck about it

>>20415661
I find it funny that leftists act like what’s taught in textbooks nowadays is the same thing that was taught in 1920. Like, no, Zinn inspired bullshit is what’s taught, not American exceptionalism. You ARE the system.
t. Zoomer

>>20417264
No I don't think I will. Seethe more faggot

>>20417267
"why do you even care about the existence and survival of your race that built western civilization?"
You sound like a kike, faggot. You are not fooling anybody.

>>20417169
>long autistic rants that makes no challenge to its historical accuracy
Yea I get there is a leftist slant, but the history is well researched and correct

>>20417274
>Fuck off mom, I need to save civilization by calling a poster on a Mongolian fishing forum a jew
You're life is utterly pathetic

>>20417269
The leftists are a master in making their subservients think they're totally rebelling against "the system" as they proceed to basedface over corporations painting colors of their mental illnesses over products and beg pharmaceuticals to inject expensive hormones and vaccines into them. Fucking hilarious.

>>20417285
Oh now that's rich coming from the people who send all their time persecuting those who don't think mentally ill cultists who want to chop off their dicks to enter girl's bathrooms might not be entirely sane. Kill yourself or just fuck off back to /leftypol/, no one here is falling for your bullshit.

>>20417244
Muh ltv

>>20417294
>Oh now that's rich coming from the people who send all their time persecuting those who don't think mentally ill cultists who want to chop off their dicks to enter girl's bathrooms might not be entirely sane. Kill yourself or just fuck off back to /leftypol/, no one here is falling for your bullshit

>>20415661
Greer had a guest on his show to talk about this book and others and said it was trash.

>>20417489
Chudjak look

>>20415780
The Oxford History of the United States Series

https://www.goodreads.com/series/308899-the-oxford-history-of-the-united-states

>>20417244
You're little thought experiment isn't how actual goods get priced or things get made. Companies don't just pop up and start making pots then find customers. First they buy the materials, then they hire labor, and pay for all the overhead. That sets a base price that goods cannot be sold under otherwise the firm goes bankrupt. The firm then increases their price over their costs of production which we call a profit. Now this is influence a good deal by supply and demand but profit only accounts for around 3-5% of a good's actual price.

>>20417244
>why do people regularly pay hundreds of thousands of dollars more for houses built with the same materials and labor, in the same city, where the only difference is neighborhood?
For most goods and services supply and demand will naturally regulate themselves and becomes a negligible factor. The only time where this doesn't happen is in exceptionally unique situations like with monopolies or other disfunction. One of those is land ownership which is unique because the supply of land is set and constantly dwindling.
>Why do leftists allow themselves to be exploited by landlords by living in apartments instead of buying a more spacious double-wide manufactured home with a yard at a far lower cost?
Well, double-wides are about the worst investment you could possibly make. It constantly decreases in value because its not tied to land. So maybe they're just financially literate?
>Commies are so fucking retarded, disproving them almost gets boring after a while.
Look every single one of your misconceptions about the LtV could have been cleared up if you actually fucking bothered to read Marx. I'm so sick of pseuds who are so wacked out on dopamine that they can't read a single book but think they're a fucking genius because they regurgitate the same 3 talking points from every YouTube conservative.

>>20417774
>if you actually fucking bothered to read Marx
And people should do this.... why?
Communism and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race, easily the most destructive ideology of the last century.
Hasn't history proven that Marx's vision of an egalitarian utopia is unattainable, inevitably creating an oligarchy more oppressive to the people than the capitalists it vilifies?
If you think that it hasn't, its either because you are ignorant on history and are doomed to repeat it, or because you think you will be a member of the party and will dictate everyone around after your seizure of power.

>>20415661
It was written at a time when anti-Americanism was still a hot take and not the norm. Don't read it as an introduction to US history. Don't read it if you don't have any knowledge of histography and the context at the time of its publication. Read it if you want to drink the kool-aid and indoctrinate yourself with shit that's sadly become mainstream. Read it after a standard textbook. Pic-related is a good text and is used in 2nd-year level US History courses.

>>20418484
>And people should do this.... why?
For example, to avoid mistakes like this:
>Marx's vision of an egalitarian utopia
It's generally a good idea to have at least some notion of what an author thinks before having an opinion on him.

>>20415780
Oxford History of the American People, for a single-volume history of the United States

>As someone who isn't well versed in American history its a good start right?
Its only worth reading once you already know a fair bit of American history. To get a more critical perspective of America, but also to teach yourself how to recognize and deal with extreme bias in an author.

>>20415661
Maybe this was edgy when it was published buy by now it’s literally taught in schools and the historiographical perspective (women, Indians, blacks, workers etc. good, old stuffy white elites bad) is dogma.

>>20417244
marx is not relevant for LTV but for class conflict, looking at history via the lines of class conflict

>>20418484
>And people should do this.... why?
Personally, any time I have an opinion I go and search out the strongest writers and thinkers who feel the opposite of how I do. I was a Platonist so I read Nietzsche, I was anti-racist so I read Mein Kampf, I'm a Communist so I've read everything by Milton Friedman as well as Hoppe, Hayek, and Rothbard, etc., etc. It's a normal part of learning and challenging ourselves and our assumptions.
>inevitably creating an oligarchy more oppressive to the people than the capitalists it vilifies?
I'm sure that's what the history books funded by right wing think tanks say
>If you think that it hasn't, its either because you are ignorant on history
Well, I'm not the most incredibly well read but I did take a history minor with one of my course being early modern Russia so I've read a few different perspectives on the matter. Which books did you read to come to your conclusions?
>cause you think you will be a member of the party and will dictate everyone around after your seizure of power.
The absolute last person I would want to be in the USSR is an upper party member. Upper party members were sent to the gulags. Proles got food and houses provided for basically nothing. If you've read 1984 this is exactly what Orwell complained about. It was the "upper class" being oppressed instead of the good, moral, normal system of oppressing the lower classes that we all know and encourage.

>>20415661
Zinn self admitted that it's Leftist propaganda meant to counter Nationalist propaganda. As long as you read it with a critical mind and are aware of this, it's an okay read (although desu just kind of boring too).

>>20421361
>I was anti-racist so I read Mein Kampf
That's just fucking stupid, even if you're an honest to God Nazi, Mein Kampf is a shitty book to explain and convey the beliefs of racists (in that you believe in racial differences between humans).

>>20415661
>Wood drastically underestimates the impact of social distinctions predicated upon wealth, especially inherited wealth...
You got that from Vickers, Work in Essex County, Page 98, right? Yeah I read that too. Were you gonna plagiarize the whole thing for us—you have any thoughts of—of your own on this matter? Or do—is that your thing, you come into a bar, you read some obscure passage and then you pretend, you pawn it off as your own—your own idea just to impress some girls, embarrass my friend?

>a balanced view of history
you'll never get a book like that
you might get something that has subtle ideological implications that you already like and agree with but that aren't outright stated though, which will make you believe it's 'neutral and objective'

>>20416176
This. Just look at >>20417244. He said absolutely nothing in that block of seetheposting. Conservatives should be hunted down like dogs

>>20415661
You know this thread has been a shitshow and upon some reflection, having read many books myself, I do not believe I have ever encountered a book about American history that I would consider good. They've all been bad and many have been extremely biased to push a political point. I suspect if you want an actually good history of America, you would have to find one not written in English, and ideally never translated to English either, to avoid the political biases.

One problem with books on "American" history is the nature of the United States: "America" is a collection of 50 states and some territories and has always been at least 13 states and some territories. And it's a real diversity, too. New York and Virginia are almost nothing alike and the histories of those two states in particular are crucial to understanding "American" history, right from the start and continuing all the way up to the present day. So a good history of America would have to follow at least a dozen separate threads of local/regional history as well as an overarching "national" (or federal) thread that only makes sense in context of both local and international history. And that's BEFORE you get filthy liars like Zinn and his ilk muddying the waters.

Instead of reading a book, go to the nearest state history museum. North Carolina's was pretty decent when I went and I learned a lot.