/lit/ - Literature

Everyone here in /wg/ writes

Don't give up.
Don't allow sadness to crush your spirit.
Strive to make the art that will change it all.
Push back against the failure of culture to maintain its strength.
Drag it kicking and screaming with you, if you have to.
Feel pity if you must. Feel sadness, feel rage, feel hopeless, and feel fury. Then write.

>>20480592
Going to use my summer off (teacherfag) to finish my first ever draft, a year plus after starting. Going to finally do it this time, no matter how shitty it is. And it's shit all right.

How the fuck do I write natural sounding dialogue.

>>20480607
So you're not in one of those places with "year round schooling"?
Is that still even a thing?

>>20480630
Nah.

>>20480646
Good. I remember living for summer vacation when I was a kid.
So you think your 1st draft is shit?
That's not the attitude you have with your students, is it?
Can't you think of some encouraging things you said to them that might help you with your own writing?

>>20480629
There's extremes styles of dialogue.
Classical style, where nobody talks like it in real life but its romantic and pretty and literally a script that is exactly how people talk. Most people don't try to sound TOO natural.

>>20480663
**Two extreme styles of dialogue
Classical vs Literally a script

>>20480629
Avoid having every bit of dialogue be just incredibly direct stating of intentions or explanations. People can say what they mean, but they don't just blandly state it unless they're boring or robotic.

Pseud thread: >>20479711
Report it for low quality.
Open it, click the triangle next to the post number on the top line, and select "Report post".
Under "reason", select "low quality".
Thank you for making 4chan a less crappy place.

>>20480629
Dialogue has both what characters are literally saying on the surface, and a subtext of what they really mean

>>20480607

I'm routing for you bro.


https://pastebin.com/zts2JX1K
Thanks to anyone with input. I'm excited to be writing again for a day or two and then abandon it, as it tradition.

>>20480663
I was gonna clarify that I know dialogue shouldn't be 100% realistic but I liked the impact of the single sentence more.
Even going by literary standards there's just something off about the stuff I write. I wanna say wooden but maybe that isn't it? I'm not sure. It's bothering the fuck out of me because I just don't even know what I'm doing wrong. Before I could get away with it because the college I go to has rock-bottom standards and I'd get 100s for stringing a competent story together, but now that I'm writing for pleasure I actually give a shit about how stuff reads and I'm realizing I have no fucking idea what I'm doing.

>>20480667
>>20480673
Maybe that's it. I'll take a look at what I got, maybe they're being too literal.

>>20480685
Not necessarily being too literal is an issue, it can just be a character doesn't sound unique. The best dialogue you can tell what character is saying it because no other character talks that way. You don't have to necessarily go that far, but you have to keep that in mind, different people talk in different ways.

any works/tips on appropriate metaphor/simile in context to the scene?

>>20480607
Good luck my man!
>>20480629
Ulysses actually has some excellent natural sounding dialogue.
>>20480678
I thought the beginning, particularly the first paragraph, was decently written but later on it felt like you went a bit too much with the “Greg said/Chuck said.” I also know very little about plants so mentioning all the names of them sort of went over my head. Not bad though friend, try and keep up the momentum!

>>20480697
The only helpful hints I've ever been able to find on that involve synesthesia and anthropomorphism.
So try to describe something that's detectable with one sense as if you're detecting it with another sense.
For instance, the perfumed colors of ripening berries.
Or try to describe something as if it had a human-like will.
For instance, how the lawn runs up to the fence.

Other than that, I've never found a lot of help on how to form metaphors and similes.
Maybe someone else will chime in.

>>20480658
Dunno, I don't teach language / English / whateverthefuck you want to call it.

>>20480694
Take this excerpt, then. Do they sound unique enough? This is fanfiction so I can hear Mariah's voice in my head as I write the lines but maybe that's making me blind to how weird they sound?

>>20480707
>Ulysses actually has some excellent natural sounding dialogue.
I was a hair away from picking up a copy on my last goodwill book run. Guess who feels like an ass now?

Did F. Gardner come from /wg/, /pol/, or /x/? Reposting because I didn’t get a clear answer last time.

>>20480739
It's fine until they GET to the delivering info. It feels like an unnatural dump of info, I think. I can't pinpoint exactly what's wrong, the voices are unique enough for what they are. Well, one is, the other is completely bland but doesn't seem like a character worth too much.

>>20480707
I'll have to rethink the back and forth. I don't really know much about plants either to totally honest. I was just googling Massachusetts plants lmao

Have you ever met a “creative,” who makes you rethink your own talents? Some dude from high school showed me his terrible art and stories, and I felt too bad to tell him the truth. If he is deluded into thinking he’s making art, maybe I am as well.

>>20480775
I suspect that people I know think I'm a terrible artist.
I can't get them to read anything I write.
I do better with randos on the Internet.
Or maybe it's the old saw that friends like you for who you are when they meet you, and don't want to see you grow as a person.

>>20480751
>It's fine until they GET to the delivering info. It feels like an unnatural dump of info, I think.
Ok. That I can work with.
>I can't pinpoint exactly what's wrong
RIGHT?
>Well, one is, the other is completely bland but doesn't seem like a character worth too much.
Assuming (hoping) you're talking about the dude, he's supposed to be a little flat. I'm trying to make simpler stories so they don't collapse under their own weight and for that I'm writing a simple "tempted by the devil" sort of tale. He's just there to try to tempt Mariah (a character the intended audience will know is chronically avaricious) with money to facilitate character growth in her and prime growth in the other two round characters that'll happen in later chapters.

>>20480775
Being in a community college writing course has done that too me. The only thing keeping me from total despair is narcissism stemming from being "le gifted english kid" back in grade school. Slowly realizing I kinda haven't grown since then so it's rapidly crumbling, though.

>>20480791
It might just be a fanfiction issue where you're aping how you know the character sounds, without really making it work as a means of using dialogue. I couldn't tell you for sure, I'm not great at writing dialogue myself, but it doesn't feel right to read.

>>20480715
>>20480697
Aristotle's Rhetoric book 3 has some useful tips for picking the right metaphor and when/how to effectively use it.

>>20480780
>I can't get them to read anything I write.
Writers like Gene Wolfe never got their family/friends to read their works. He even says in an interview that no one saw it until he sent it to publishers, who were the only people to add feedback and editing (after he had edited heaps himself).
https://youtu.be/0Pf-DyEEGlU
>Or maybe it's the old saw that friends like you for who you are when they meet you, and don't want to see you grow as a person.
Maybe. Being a writer is solitary anyway.

>>20480808
I guess it be like that sometimes.

>>20480739
>Guess who feels like an ass now?
Kek, well it’s mostly in the character’s heads so Dubliners might be a better choice anyways. Joyce, in general, just has a good ear for it.
>>20480753
Lmao, I do the same thing with animals for my westerns. Also take my advice with a grain of salt since I’m not great at it myself.

>>20480803
>It might just be a fanfiction issue where you're aping how you know the character sounds, without really making it work as a means of using dialogue.
That honestly would make sense, like I said I'm hearing her voice in my head as I write
doesn't help that the source material isn't that fantastically written so I can't even reference it that hard
Thanks for confirming that it doesn't sound right, at the very least, I'm glad I got confirmation that I wasn't just being hard on myself.

>>20480780
>I can't get them to read anything I write.
I know this pain. I don't think they have malicious intentions, though, there's a lot more at play.
When I was younger my dad tried writing a book. He finished the first volume and got it printed and everything. Everyone in the family but me read it. I don't know why I couldn't bring myself to read it, but there was some block. Maybe I was scared it was going to be bad? Art is a very personal thing between author and audience if they know each other and maybe I was scared of making that step. I still feel awful about it all these years later because it probably fucking hurt him, and the fact it never got picked up by publishers certainly didn't help.

>>20480865
>so Dubliners might be a better choice anyways. Joyce, in general, just has a good ear for it.
I'll have to jot that down, thanks for the tip.

Hell-Anon here to say goodnight. Big things in store. You're all wonderful people.

Looks like the seething pseuds have taken over the ersatz thread.
And you know what? That's great! It keeps them out of here.
I, for one, don't miss them.
>>20480906
Glad you're still around!
I still want to see your book on my shelf.

fuckin around with a weird style trying to make something fun out of it idk

Do you guys have any examples of well written dialogue or places where I can find some? Bonus points if it's funny / unintentionally funny

>>20480959
Pratchett does dialogue very well. Kaufman has very fun inner monologues.

>>20480977
I was gonna say Pratchett, but he's difficult to learn from, because he does them very specifically to fit the character in a way that you almost have to examine a character from the ground up to understand why their dialogue works for them.

fuck you pay me

>>20480984
The distinct voice he gives each character is far from something that should be ignored. I think that's one of the core things I see people lacking in here. Many people who struggle with dialogue only learn how much they are struggling when they are forced to have two character interact after thoughtlessly giving them the exact same voice.

>>20480997
How do you consciously give characters different voices?

>>20481000
Exaggerated accents written out in excruciating detail of course.

>>20481006
If you're dunking on Moby Dick I'm gonna be a little upset.

>>20481000
I'm the anon who was having dialogue trouble above so I'm by no means an expert, but really having the image of the character in your head actually talking helps I think. Imagining their mannerisms as they speak gives them some energy. As you can see from my post it can go too far but it's something.

And the frog’s in the forum and the silver spoon
Little spurdo and the jezebel’s poon
"When you seething, cuck?" "I don't know when"
But we'll post a basedjak then
You know we'll post a basedjak then

So why don't you have a social media presence? It's the only way you'll ever get exposure.

>>20481226
I'm going to put subliminal messages in my gay amish vampire x werewolf cowboy romance novel that forces your faggot mother to witness images of my gaping asshole in her sleep. Then, she will transmit them to you, and you will have learned how well I can 'expose' myself.

how do i build up my internal writing vocabulary? for example, i have a tendency, whenever i sit down and write, to write in a 20th/late 19th century style, because most of the books i’ve read come from that era. either that or too much Lovecraft as a 10 year old. should i just read more books from a different era in order to broaden my internal writing vocabulary?

Which is the better way to say this:
>Everything he had ever waited patiently, and had not strived for, had fallen into place for Taylor...
Or
>Everything he had ever waited patiently, and had not strived, for had fallen into place for Taylor...
I can't figure out where to place the FOR it's a clunky sentence to begin with probably.

>>20480606
Even though you fanooks failed me last thread you are correct - I should not give up!
>Whats a good name for a male, second generation Chinese Australian character?
Why? because fucking diversity that's why!

>>20481301
>Despite being a lazy paeud, everything he had ever waited patiently for, had finally fallen into place for taylor aka The autist formerly known as 'that fucking tranny'.

Write with cat. Cat knows punctuation and such like.
Also knows when to break paragraph. Long paragraph bores cat, paragraph must be small and quick like a rat.
There it runs! Look at it go!
Cat is engaged. Cat will keep reading. If cat, so person also.

>>20481327
Thanks you dumb faggot I hope to kill you one day

>>20481226

>Lost motivation to write my passion project
I-It'll come back bros, r-right?

>>20481508
What was your passion project?

>>20481508
No. You didn't make it. I'm sorry. All you have left is learning discipline and writing regardless of how you feel about it

>>20481508

Motivation is a spook. Depend on motivation and you will acheive nothing. Have the discipline to perservere while it is gone. You have a deeper motivation to create, even if you don't feel inspired now. Use that to guide you and form discipline. Schedule a time to write each week and sit down and write, even if you produce only 50 words. Then remind yourself that you wrote, and this was better than not writing.

Show up for the muse and she will show up for you.

>>20481523
This.
>>20481508
Just keep doing exercises, you are doubting your project but you were passionate for a reason. Youre gonna discover why and it can make the book better.

Outside of writing, are you suffering lately? Does it help or hurt your writing?

Is anyone good at coming up with funny acronyms? I need a name for an extremely misandrist radical feminist group, something along the same lines as S.C.U.M. (Society for Cutting Up Men), but I'm terrible at coming up with good acronyms. Something that adds up to C.U.N.T. or S.L.U.T. would be great.

>>20481553
Racist
Eating
Troglodytes
Are
Dead!

>>20481545
past suffering can be helpful to draw on and insert into what i'm writing, but current suffering completely kills any momentum i have and i stagnate

>>20481558
R.E.T.A.D.? Man, the bants write themselves. I'm not even going to bother. Too easy, low hanging fruit.

>>20481553
I dont like using wordplay like that much. i aim for high wit, not that low wit is bad its just not recommended for my audience.

>>20481566
I mean...maybe it could be like, they forgot the R, cause THEY'RE retarded, or something.

>>20478884
Since I missed it last thread

>>20481523
>>20481540
Thanks, anons. I wrote out 215 words. Not a lot, but I'm getting there.

>>20481641
>Noelle... She... Noelle... Noelle's eyes... she... She... She... If she... She... Noelle... she... She... Noelle's... Noelle... She... She...
Wow. That was all within the space of a bit over 30 lines of prose. Well done! Now go learn how to construct a sentence without the same subject appearing in it, especially when you begin most of them with "she" or "Noelle."

>>20480587
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YZ2VhS-8wIiKG-PXkprBpPnGv1J7fRRr/

it's incomplete, disorganized and some parts dont make much sense beyond being a template. im writing a guide for people to get out of negative spirals as well as develop advanced positive feedback loops and skills all on top of a worldview and framework of philosophy

i would like your help, anything you can provide. criticism, additions, whatever. thanks