/lit/ - Literature

>>20938501
Neets how? Genuinely curious

>>20938502
Lazily burned down entire forests using "fire stick farming" for food. All their shit about being one with the land. Never really evolving in terms of technology and just taking it easy.

Maybe all nigger cultures are a bit like that. Sorta wanted to read about these guys specifically though, because they seem to have been around for over 40,000 years yet we know nothing about them

>>20938514
And if you ever live near them they never wear shoes and pretty much just wander around doing whatever they want

>>20938501
They had oral traditions which like many oral traditions were stable via initiation, repetition, and regional commonality / collegium.

They weren't literate, and so necessarily lacked literature in the sense of documentation. Post-colonial studies have started going into the issue of whether stable transmitted songs are literary or not, but it seems like a pathetic chasing of broken western systems of knowledge; or, a disacknowledgement of post-colonial indigenaity.

>>20938502
In non-class society "Education" "employment" and "training" don't exist as such.

>>20938523
Any idea where a collection this oral "literature" can be found?

Pretty much everywhere. As an Australian collections of their mythology was impossible to avoid. Some of their stories may seem fairly simple and standard, but these stories have parallels in those of the Ancient Greeks, Chinese, Mesoamericans and Africans. It is interesting to see how this culture developed absolutely independently from others, yet there are still similarities. Apologies for sounding like a Jungian.

>>20938501
>ancient aboriginals
from where?

>>20938552
Turn up out West as an obvious skip with no stolen generation heritage and you'll have women trying to teach you song lines before you can say, "I'm skinless so there's no risk of cultural incest."

>>20938514
>>20938517
If you're going to make abbo jokes up the fucking level.

>>20938639
>Apologies for sounding like a Jungian.
Never apologise for sounding right. Now where is your ketamine and your acid stash?

>>20938552
Didn't all hunter gatherers have oral literature what makes these guys so special apart from the fact they never evolved past it?

>>20938501
Tell me about the Abos - why do they enjoy huffing petrol so much?

>>20938807
>Didn't all hunter gatherers have oral literature what makes these guys so special apart from the fact they never evolved past it?
Massive terraforming.

>>20938820
>why do they enjoy huffing petrol so much?

Who doesn't?

>>20938836
Stop teasing New Bruce, Bruce, he's a seppo cunt.

>>20938552
These guys have no recollection of who their grand-grandparents were but western soience claims they can transmit oral stories (get it?) for 37,000 years and that all with an IQ of 60.

>>20938639
Right. I remember there was a story in my tribe about the end times which involved a giant serpent. like nordic mythology with thor and Jörmungandr. Or how lots of native american tribes will have stories about a trickster rabbit.

>>20940121
If you had an IQ of 60 and your only societal task was to dance, kill boar and cook it, and listen to a wise man chant about the Gods in the forest, you would certainly have enough brain power to retain it. IQ isn’t a indication of “general” brain capacity, it’s a quantity of various accumulated mental abilities.

>>20938501
They kept it in the Oral tradition. Amazingly they could sing a song to cross the entire fucking continent reliably. A very deep and spiritual people. Basically a race that totally embraced the ideals of Diogenes.

>>20940396
You presume that the reason they only engage in a limited number of social tasks is unrelated to their overall low intellectual functioning. It's the chicken and egg question all over again. Well, actually no, because pure aborigines who were raised in white families still score extremely low on IQ tests and they're incapable of functioning in Australian society with its many complicated tasks.
>IQ isn’t a indication of “general” brain capacity
IQ doesn't even matter here. The idea that you can transmit oral literature for 37,000 years is just stupid in itself. The Indians did it for 2,000 years with Vedic Sanskrit and that alone necessitated universities, priests, teachers etc. whose only job was learning and reciting the verses and even then, much was lost. There's tons of other issues that I'm not going into. The first issue is that there is no good proof that the aboriginies of 40,000 years ago are really in any way related to modern-day aborigines, second issue is that intertribal warfare was endemic among aboriginies. I can cite several other issues. It's the noble savage myth all over again.

>>20938639
>>20940373
The same animal, on seperate parts of the globe will behave near identical, because they are operating instinctively, on the level of the collective unconscious. Animals even know things that they cannot possibly have learned. Baby chicks for instance, will not react if you fly the shape of a cow over their heads, but fly the shape of a hawk over them, and they freak out. These chicks have never seen a hawk, nor have they seen an example of a hawk being a threat, yet they still know, through compounded genetic information, to be afraid. In humans, under layers of advanced cognition and personal subconscious, lies the same deepweb of blood memory which influences and predates all our psychology. This is why the same archytypes are found in cultures which never met. The will is like a primordial light being shone through lenses of consciousness. Even in cultures extremely different to one another, the same forms are bound to be expressed.

They make pictures to show stories from oral traditions, but they think that you should be able to see the whole story at once, so they're essentially illegible to anyone not raised in the same culture, the same way you're going to need a compass and a measuring device to work out their directions because left and right don't exist

>>20940493
Books to read more about this for beginners?

>>20940870
These are just my thoughts. There are no books that I know of that describe this phenomenon, despite it being the framework of all sentient life. Jung's concept of the collective unconscious comes close, but to my knowledge he never connects it to epigenetics, and it feels to me not fully realized. Schopenhauer touches on a similar idea when writing about the will. Alex Jones of all people first opened my eyes to this when he talked briefly on Joe Rogan about epigenetic memory, and that he believes his ancestors knowledge to be encoded in his dna, referencing the chicks and hawk experiment. If anyone else has a book recommendation in this vein id love to hear. I may have to write one of my own one day.

>>20938501
The Ethiopians wrote a book of the Bible that is only canon to the Ethiopian Orthodox church.
The Mali composed an epic poem from the 13th century.
There is an (untranslated in English) epic poem in the Swahili language from the 18th century.
The Zulu composed an epic poem in the 19th century.
The Mayans wrote Popol Vuh.
When you consider the fact that it took about 500 years between the British writing Beowulf to writing Canterbury Tales with virtually nothing of value in between, the limited literary showing from indigenous peoples isn't as embarrassing as the racists on this board would like to pretend.
If you just made this thread to shit on Australians I don't really have a dog in that fight, enjoy your culture war thread.

Their 'literature' was purely oral, always being intimately linked to social organization and its preservation.

And yeah, you could say that they were nature's neets, just having to worry about picking stuff and hunting animals.

It is as if they lived their literature, or as if there was no fundamental distinction between it and actual life.

>>20941052
Please do.

>>20941152
I appreciate the interest. I have never written these thoughts down, and I don't know of what use it would be if I did, but I feel i'm at the edge of something very real. Its a truth that everyone knows, but nobody knows that they know. I've considered going into evolutionary psych and further fleshing out these ideas, but I don't know if it would be lucrative or worth the years of school, and who knows, maybe i'm wrong.

>>20938836
I actually really love the smell of gasoline and various solvents, I don't huff them to get high but damn do they smell great.

>>20941210
Exactly my point

>>20938514
I’m sure there’s anthropological books you can find.

>>20941052
>Jung's concept of the collective unconscious comes close, but to my knowledge he never connects it to epigenetics, and it feels to me not fully realized.
It's Jung's concept and he did link it to genetics or at least the version of genetics he knew at that time. So stop plagiarizing ideas.

You fellas might find this interesting:

The Consequences of Literacy by J. Goody

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/comparative-studies-in-society-and-history/article/abs/consequences-of-literacy/72D83FA8EBC8D43291BE3D7FC1CAEBC0
http://worrydream.com/refs/Goody%20-%20The%20Consequences%20of%20Literacy.pdf

>>20941259
Did I not just say it's Jung's concept? You even quoted me. Also, I am speaking of metaphysical epigenetics. Learned information being passed down through dna, resulting in the formation of instincts from thousands of years of this ancestral knowledge. Certain constant and recurring images in the compressed library of blood memory can be conceptualized as Jungian archetypes. I haven't read all of Jung, but I have never heard him put things exactly in this way.

>>20938501
Is there ever anything worth preserving in these cultures? If you were to return 4000 years previous, would there be any noticable difference, not counting the nike t-shirt and ciggies.

>>20938501
none of them even had written language till whitey showed up so no

>>20940870
I think this is what he's talking about

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_monkey_effect

>>20940870

>>20941317
That is not quite what im talking about. The hundredth monkey effect seems to describe monkey learning going from active teaching to passive observation, and if a concept is easily enough learned by one monkey, it is bound to be figured out independantly by another, somewhere else. The type of knowledge i'm trying to describe would have been already learned by monkeys centuries ago, but never taught to, nor observed by the new generation. A monkey knows to be weary of a tiger, despite never seeing an example of a tiger being violent towards monkeys. It is in his blood. A monkey never needs to learn this information by example, he is born with it. Where does the knowledge come from? I believe from a vault of hidden and compressed ancestral monkey knowledge. Jung calls this the collective unconscious. The same is true for humans and any other animal. It is the base level cognition.
>>20941327
I read the description, and this is what I am talking about. Insects are a good example of this concept, because they mentally clones of one another, operating like a hive mind. They have no higher layers of cognition like humans, yet all over the world, and independantly, they construct themselves civilizations. They are born with all the knowledge they will ever need.

>>20938501
>Did ancient aboriginals not write any literature
No you stupid nigger. There's nothing interesting to be said when your "language" has 300 words.

>>20941311
>ciggies

>>20941303
>Learned information being passed down through dna, resulting in the formation of instincts from thousands of years of this ancestral knowledge.
I really don't think you're the first one to propose that.

>>20941552
When did I ever claim to be the first person to have these ideas? I am sure others have thought the same thoughts, but I have never read it anywhere, put together in one cohesive book. These concepts are not generally understood in the way most people understand the subconscious. If you could kindly enlighten me with some book reccomendations it would be much appreciated, but I suspect you have none. Have you any thoughts of your own, or do you merely criticise others thoughts?

>>20938523
you like it up the bum don't yas

>>20941074
It isn't racist to state the fact that white people were better than other races

>>20940448
>The idea that you can transmit oral literature for 37,000 years is just stupid in itself.
It seems like a Theseus' Ship question, to me. Don't you think?

>>20940448
>I can cite several other issues.
I think it would be interesting if we got into these other issues.

>>20938514
>yet we know nothing about them
Why is everyone on /lit/ so uneducated, and confident about it?

>>20941987
>Dude, look at all the different search results of women giving their opinions about aboriginals!
>See, we know so much about them!
>No, you can't read anything actually produced by these aboriginals
>>20941220
I don't want anthropological books. I want literature, or oral literature, created by actual ancient aboriginals
>>20940427
But written collections of these oral stories supposedly exist. Where are they?
>>20938643
All I see are people giving opinions. All secondary sources
>>20938639
Where is it???

>>20940121
>These guys have no recollection of who their grand-grandparents
There's a reason for that in the form of NSW, Victoria, Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia. In Tasmania the number of surviving aboriginal people is low enough that they know who their grandparents were due to "bottleneck" population. Using stolen generations as an argument for aboriginal stupidity other than on an armed actions basis is cretinistic. And you know that opening the armed actions basis leads us to the Myall Massacre as the last *public* massacre, and the "secret mens' business" of the whites in the country towns.

FFS Bruce up your fucking game. Try being racist from a left wing perspective. You get away with so much more. Just remember that Acknowledgement of Country is Disacknowledgement of Rent. Get on the Labor Party's level.

>Basically a race that totally embraced the ideals of Diogenes.
See now this is literary racism.

>>20940870
Gammage, Bill. The Biggest Estate on Earth: How Aborigines Made Australia (2011).
Reynolds, Henry. The other side of the frontier: Aboriginal resistance to the European invasion of Australia (UNSW Press, 2006).

>>20938501
>neet
>fit
>low iq
Sounds based

>>20938501
>Did ancient aboriginals not write any literature
They realize literature was a meme.

>>20938501
Their art is pretty nice. Would buy a piece for my studio along with other "cultural"pieces.

>>20943528
No it isn't, this looks like my doodles in my notebooks from middle school

>>20943565
You're so low brow, don't you realise he's culturally colonising them *and* demeaning their culture more effectively than you ever could? Jesus fuck, have some aristocracy to your racism. Now let me show you the fertility symbols of the American Southern White.

>>20943567
EDIT: Whoops I forgot my /s at the end there!

>>20938836
abos skipped cars as "middle men" and enjoy the gasoline for themselves, they are hydrocarbon enjoyers

>>20943643
You gotta bang your head against the wall until it breaks.

>>20938514
forest fires are good

>>20940448
>Indians did it for 2,000 years with Vedic Sanskrit
try 20,000

>>20940448
>Australian society with its many complicated tasks.
I hope this is a joke

>>20938501
I recently learn that the abo dot art they are known for was invented by some white guy lmao.

The guy literally used childish dots because he thought it would be easy for them . And this whole fucking time they made it out like it was some traditional art style lol

>>20941439
[Citation needed]

>>20945342
The only thing I know is that prior to colonization Bantu languages spoken in Africa had no words for concepts such as a straight line, middle, inbetween, volume, schedule, appointment, contract, treaty etc. Missionaries and early colonizers had to invent the words themselves in order to translate segments of the bible.

>>20945529
Do you have a real source for that, or just that anecdote by the philosophy professor?

>>20945636
I wish I had one since I would like to read up on it.
>Also source begging
Please...

>>20938501
noongars had long-standing oral tradition with historical corroboration, but literature? No way. They had no wheel or bow and arrow, at least in Australia

I’m aboriginal and I hate it when people treat us like some sort of profound deep culture like we’re fucking a mythical Atlantis or some shit
My dude we were just a collection of hunter gatherer tribes

>>20941210
Absolute pottery. Dysgenics solve themselves.

>anthropologists didn't even consider aborigines human until the 1960s

>>20945661
also
>oral literature
I made a canoe and by canoe I mean sea plane, in my people's proud history of aviation engineering... with boats

>>20945673
What % abbo are you? 7?

>>20945529
>>20945636
>>20945651

The source you're looking for is African Language and the African Mind by Professor Eugene Valberg.

>>20945694

>>20945529 #
>>20945636 #
>>20945651 #

African Language and the African Mind

https://youtu.be/WAoNhacojmM

>>20945686
50%ish, good luck finding purebloods these days

>>20945673
You have to admit the dreamtime is a really fucking cool concept though. Boomerangs and didgeridoos are neat too

>>20945745
fuck me that picture tells the story of my entire country

>>20945673
Lol i get you and youre right to a certain extent, but those tribes did more than just hunting and gathering, or rather, their hunting and gathering was far from being just a simple survival technique without any symbolic and sociorelogious counterpart.

The common westerner indeed simplifies and idealizes things, but you cannot judge preindustrial modes of life just based on industrial and modern notions.

>>20945673
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XLUrW_4ZMs

>>20945529
And yet I a speaker of 2 bantu languages know these words in my native tongue and none of them seem to be loan words.

>>20938501

mostly all of them had no writing system(until the white man gave them one). they transmitted everything orally
with regard to africa it was the arabs who gave them their first writing system

to be fair there were whites(norsein particular) with no writing system. north europeans had no writing system(other than ruins) before the romans. ruins were mostly for religious purposes, and weren't for literary purposes

icelandic sagas and all that shit was written using latin characters they got from the romans

>>20947112
I thought they didn't even write those down, they were just oral bardic traditions? From what I understand Snorri wrote them down later because they were about to be lost

>>20947112

runes*

ruins lmao
cognitive decline

japan, the jomon basically had no writing system before the adopted the chinese characters
they later added hiragana and katakana, so it fits their language
i imagine the same thing happened when norse adopted latin characters. they modified them to fit the language
i think cyril did that with russian when created cyrilic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ska2fpueDLA

>>20947112
Runes definitley had a literary purpose (the inscriptions we have are just honoring dead fathers and the like) and they are also kinda based on latin script, runes started being used when scandis went down to rome to work as mercenaries.