/lit/ - Literature

Bump wtf

Surely you haven't included ahistorical fruits in your fiction, /sffg/?

What are some Chaotic Evil sff books?

>>21001192
Didn't Sulla bring back cherries from the Caucuses? Or someone from the Mithridatic wars

Any books that feel like the first part of Suldrun's garden? I started that one because the cover looked beautiful and I heard about Vance from Wolfe, but after Suldrun offed herself and the perspectives shifted, it became harder to stay invested. The first part felt so personal to her and the struggles of living in Lyonesse castle and I wanted more of that. Still planning on finishing the trilogy, but I get the feeling it'll be more like the second half of the first book.

>>21001170
she will never rule supreme

>>21000871
First for women authors

>>21001192
The story takes place on a barren, lifeless planet (with one exception on 2D space) similar to 2 overlapping Mercurys and has a mostly transparent Proca sun created by a dead god.

>>21001170
damn AI technology is out of this world

>>21001170

>>21001283
>glasses and '80s hair
hot

>>21000871
Everyone always talks about the Black Company, but is Cook's Garrett PI any good?

read cradle

>>21001240
Downbelow Station. Reading it ruined my sleep for several days

Any recs for a sociophobic retard who wants to get into fantasy literature? I want to read something good and simple enough for me to understand

>TWI 8.64K
>>20998113
finished it
well, binding amerys with an oath is better than nothing i guess. but i'm far from satisfied.
woo, more war. i'll get to see more people dying by the dozens for the shittiest character in the entire story. i can't wait for trey to grow a fucking spine and "change that idiot’s mind" instead of doing his bidding.

the most interesting thing to come out of this is still the fact that the wistram earthers are now scattered.

thick Malazan female characters!

>>21001517
mother of learning has an MC who is just like you desu

King.

Bow now.

Bow down to thy King.

The King von /sffg/.

I have a problem, /sffg/.
I'll decide that I want to read Moorcock because he was somewhat influential back in the day, even if he's pretty much forgotten now, but every time I do, I remember how much of a pretentious self-important douche he comes off as and drop the book before I even start out of the fear of his douchiness leaking into the work.
What do?

>>21001575
just read it, scool

>>21001517
The Way of Kings followed by Words of Radiance is how I back into reading and fantasy in general after a decade of not reading for fun

>>21001588
I guess after forcing yourself through way of kings anything you read after that will seem good

Books where the antagonist(s) actually respect and fear the protag?
Pic related

>>21001567
mother of learning is shit

>>21001590
Unironically I had an easier time with Way of Kings compared to something like Cradle. I remember falling alseep like 5 times trying to get through Cradle books 1-3

>>21001595
good shit yeah

>>21001588
Sanderson is really easy to read. You can blaze through it.

>>21001601
No its garbage

>>21001610
Name 150 things bad about MoL

Has anyone tried a writing project where they create a world and they write many stories set within it based on that world?

>>21001617
Many authors do that, yes

>>21001624
Sorry I should have been more clear, I was asking for examples
Stuff like maybe 5 page stories, to 30 page short stories to novellas
Dozens to hundreds of these

>>21001783
Sell mi this book. I see it posted in every thread and I don't know anything about it except for fat neckbeard protagonist.

>You have not seen King Gilling receive a bridge. He will lie upon his back, his member standing.
>Disrobed, I will love it as if it were a dwarfish man. I will draw staring eyes and a smiling mouth. I will anoint it with sweet oils, cozen and kiss it, beg its love. Gilling will reply, speaking for the dwarf I kiss. Erupting it will bathe me in semen, and I will praise and kiss the more, saying how happy it has made me and begging it not to go.
LEL

>>21001920
>bridge
*bride

>>21001629
The Gods of Pegana by Lord Dunsany

>>21001920
horny old goat

>>21001843
You can download it free, read it and if you like it buy a copy to support the author

TWI Volume 6 some random thoughts.
Welp, finally finished it, took me forever to finish.
Good volume overall, can't think of anything from the top of my head that was extremely boring/dissatifying. Tiqr war could have been a bit shorter but whatever.
I liked the general structure, the "mini" arcs here and there and overall less hair pulling cliffhangers compared to the last volumes.
One thing I really appreciated was Grimalkin and his attitude towards Erin. I love how she usually pulls strings on everyone and is just generally a likeable dork, getting her way all the time, but I'd been feeling for a bit that she was overdoing it as fun as it was to read, so him and the innkeepers from Pallass humbling her a bit was nice. I have been finding weird how uninvolved she is with her inn now though. Magical cooking, perfect recall, other food than freaking pizza and hamburgers, etc, feels like all those aspects have been "forgotten" by her and everyone else.
The last bit with Toren made me a bit sad desu.
Ryoka's change was really nice and I didn't mind at all all the new characters on her side of the story, specially her girlfriend Fierre.
I'm a bit torn up about Laken, I feel like depending on how he handles stuff in the near future I could grow to hate him a bit. Goblins and witches could be his salvation as a character though.
I noticed some discussion about Flos last thread and I honestly don't get the hate. He's not the best character but the Reim/Chandrar chapters are overall pretty good and interesting. My only problem is with the Empire of Sands, the original threat feels so far away now with all the nearby developments. Feels like it's taking a bit too much to set up.
Baleros was kinda whatever past the games in Daquin in my opinion, the UN group feels too stagnant although from the last chapter it feels like that's gonna change.
Rhir and Terandria still feel too far away for my liking. Rhir I don't really mind but Terandria sounds like it could be filled with fun stories with connections to already established characters, mainly Lyonette, Pisces and Wil, I think.
Not to hate on the goblins, but not hearing about them every other chapter this volume was a nice gust of fresh air.
I hate to admit it but I'm starting to hate the whole of Wistram and the current "management", the three archmages feel kinda weak for some reason and just too meddly.
Anyways, looking forward to the next volume. Hope it's not just filled with war and death.

>>21001443
They're fun to read if you enjoy Cook's writing style. I would start with Old Tin Sorrows if you're not feeling patient.

>>21001283
I read this book, it's actually pretty cute, solid 7/10 adventure.

Has anyone attempted to write their own story yet? How did it go? Anyone read it?

>>21002558
No, now fuck off to the writing general.

>>21002570
who died and made you thread nanny, tranny janny?

You guys are into that Chinese fantasy shit right? What do I read for fox spirit kino?

Reading Unsouled was like consuming three loaves of white bread with mustard on it, the mustard being the god tripping scene.

How do I make a good isekai story?

>>21003037
You don't

>>21001521
>TWI 8.64K
I mean, he now has TWO people in his Seven that want Flos to stop slavery, plus himself. He's in much better position than he used to before going to Wistram. How else can he change his mind, by force? The only thing Flos cares beyond his ambition of conquest are his close friends, and together they can push him. There's quite literally no other way.

As for the eathers...On its own it's not bad, but imagine that instead of reading one large earther plotline at Wistram you now had to read multiple, all over the world. This is how Hell looks like, exponentially increasing number of Earther povs.


>>21002410
Volume 7 is mostly great, especially the first half.
As for Laken...I'm wondering what Pirateaba were thinking when first having a german, Laken, gas the goblins (in self-defense of course, but still) and then have some sort of mini-redemption with him deciding to help the goblins...by putting them in a concentration camp in his Empire. This sounds almost like a joke, no way the author didn't do it on purpose.
I'm genuinely confused by you talking about Terandria, you sure you aren't mistaking something? I can't recall any serious events that happened in Terandria in Volume 6. Unless you mean that there SHOULD be a plotline in Terandria, in that case you will eventually be satisfied.

>>21003037
you call it a "portal fantasy" and center it in western cultures with western values
it's still an isekai but at least with those criteria some humans at least will enjoy it

Any good fantasy books with grand events in the abckground, butr conflict being is personal and the story follows mundane characters?

>>21004258
No, because it wouldn't sell. As with most anything not commercially viable you'll have to look at web novels, self-published, or fanfiction.

>>21004341
or short fiction, but that wouldn't be a book either.

>>21001617
Shared world settings exist.

>>21002739
The Sacred Book of the Werewolf
Good Hunting

>>21004258
>>21004341
American lack of patience for slice of life is pitiful

>>21003037
Isekai's very premise is an inherently negative aspect that will lessen the quality of any potentially good story.
So step 1: think of a good story
Step 2: Don't ruin it with Isekai elements.

>>21003037
1. Make a hot waifu, probably loli
2. put he in a fantasy world where she doesn't belong and she is a confuse
3. profit

>>21003194
When is the first book going to be finished rewritten?

I did not care for Snow Crash. Neal spent way too much time on exposition, all the dialogue was unnatural. Characters were okay, plot was okay, both could have used more development

>>21004507
Who does have patience?

>>21004607
>When is the first book going to be finished rewritten?
The author has finished around 1/3 of the rewrite by now, and decided that it's going too slow so they are dedicating more time to it. I'd assume they are closing in on half of the volume by now, because Pirateaba is a pathological workaholic who cannot stop themselves from writing, therefore writing even during breaks.

The schedule is to finish the rewrite before the new year, but I assume Pirateaba will again hire a professional industry editor to look it over before publishing the final draft.

There are rumors of a spin-off book (Gravesong) editing being finished around the same time, so one can reasonably easily infer that the author intends to have both of the books published close to each other.

So in short, optimistic timeframe is around 4 months.

>>21001240
this chart is incredibly wrong, Dune is lawfull evil (turbo space facism being bad is Herbert's entire point), Jack Vance is Chaotic Evil (literally the inspiration for the chaotic evil rogue/thief archetype in D&D as Gygax liked Cugel the Clever), Shadow of the Torturer is not evil, probably even lawfull good due to the Christian subnarrative, idk what Hyperion even is as I didn't read on towards Endymion but not lawfull good.

Second Apocalypse has enough tentancle rape and cuckoldry to qualify, although Kellhus path bullshit is very law aligned.

>>21004641
doctors lol

>>21004258
Not quite grand scale, but arguably Gideon the Ninth is kinda like that. Gideon is basically a bystander in the grand plot and the only things she really does are from being muscle for the smarter characters to manipulate.

>>21002552
Most of Holly Lisle works are 7/10, i say this in the most flattering way possible, her books are really fun and even when bad things happen to the main characters her stories always have cute and wholesome endings.

>>21005010
all mediums need their 7/10 middleware, everyone is invested in making the next gazillion dollar 11/10 but it all just winds up as z-movie tier money laundering trash

>>21004641
unironically the japanese

>>21005042
Most of the slice of life in Japan is manga, so maybe not as much as your kneejerk reaction would suggest.

>>21005083
Really though, prose in Japan is kinda niche and unimportant in general.

>>21005083
so? thats still more slice of life than other countries produce

also slice of life manga is often well done, it doesnt fall into the negative stereotypes or tropes that people usually think about when anime/manga is mentioned

>>21005096
>>21005105
I'm just saying it isn't books, so not relevant to "Japanese have the patience for slice of life books" relative to others. It wasn't about production/output of stereotypes/tropes, but rather the readership.

There are tons of books where nothing really happens, it's just not too common in fantasy of sf.

>>21005105
Most are also part of the "cute girls do cute stuff" which may be far more important than anything else about it.

>>21005156
Basically any literary book favored by academics or considered a classic of the canon.

>>21005162
I hate that crap. Ruined Japan for me.

>>21005140
>it isn't books,

>>21005156
>>21005164
This, just read Streets of Night by Dos Passos and the whole book is just 300 pages about three friends walking and talking and then one of them kills himself, kek

Wow, what a naturally occurring discussion that clearly isn’t being forced upon this thread and isn’t artificial in the slightest. Fucking zoomers. Can’t even enjoy a slow thread with them spamming their inane bullshit.

>>21005162
>"cute girls do cute stuff"
This destroyed anime. It used to be 50/50, now it's 99% pure shit and everybody into it who doesn't immediately qualify their interest by saying they only watch select or old anime is a guaranteed faggot.

>>21001783
ATTANASIOKINO
is he still writing or he went full shaman and fell off the grid?

>>21005193
It's fucking creepy seeing this shit happen live.

>>21004663
Most doctors are idiots who can’t be bothered to spend more than 30 seconds with their patients

>>21001443
I read them before Black Company. They're really enjoyable. The first couple stick to a formula that ends up getting abandoned in Old Tin Sorrows, which is also where the series really starts hitting hard. I personally don't think you should skip any of them, but if you do want to jump forward like >>21002536 says I still believe you should read Sweet Silver Blues since it's a bit of an origin story that establishes most of the character dynamics for the rest of the books.
One thing that especially stood out to me was the worldbuilding, it was more consistent and original than I thought kitchen sink fantasy could be.

>>21005208
>>21005193
These two posts feel more artificial than anything else in the thread apart from the once-a-thread spams.

LitRPG and xianxia are here to stay.

How come the Witcher book series gets shit on so much? I'm currently on pic related and even though it's slow, it does a good job with the world building and political intrigue.

>>21005628
because it is a ripoff of Elric.

>>21005690
So? there are hundreds of Elric ripoffs

>>21005726
That makes it even shittier.

>>21004418
these look kinda faggy

>>21005194
-t 45 yo boomer
it was always 99% shit

So I just finished Magician: Apprentice
It's a good book albeit a little too generic maybe if I had read it as a kid I would have enjoyed it more.
Hows the second book

>>21001256
I think this is the plant’s origin before cultivation. Probably referring to a novel type of cherry, hard to believe they weren’t all over the Greek and Roman world already.

>>21005822
https://vimeo.com/102107747

>>21005690
a ripoff of Elric except written by a heterosexual*

>>21001629
the 1000 world of grrm, basically deals with the 3-way war between humans, hrangan and fyindii, some stories are set juts before the war, some during the war, and most after the interregnum (where spaceflight regressed and human society devolved into stone age civilisations on many planets but with different characteristics)
novellas like
greywater watch (before the war)
the hero (during the war)
a song for lya
sandkings
and seven times never kill man
in the house of the worm (closest to the fallout by the actions of bio-engineering by all parties)
tuf voyaging (4 stories)

to full length novels
in the dying of the light
windhaven

>>21005207
He put out a short story last year.
I finally, after six years, began my reread of Radix and I believe I'll get a whole fucking lot more of it this time than I did my first time.

>>21001170
Sauce for the culture.

>>21001920
Diamonds

>>21004258
That’s basically Rythm of War and it’s also one of the worst books you’ll ever read.

>>21000871
So +2 days ago this thread was created and there are only barely 100 posts.. and we are in weekend
Even this fag >>21001170 (first post) had to bump the thread after hours of inactivity

What is going on with this general? did some trip-autismo slave die, or what?

>>21006632
Hopefully some of the newfags are trickling out for other generals to obsessively keep on page one. Feel free to join them.

I got a troll reply last thread, so I will ask again
There was a Scifi book, about a spaceship traveling for centuries, inside this ship rival factions/civilization formed. Anyone knows the title?

Picked this up from the library on a whim. Really great world building

>>21005690
I much preferred it to Elric

>>21003194
you know, i feel like the story plays into his nature too much. he wants to conquer while still being righteous and the story is giving him exactly that. even more so now with what seems to be a conflict against roshal, and that's on top of actelios.
it's convenient. it gives him something to focus on, but imo that only hides his true nature and that's what bothers me. you can't just mask and pretty up his base desire by showing only his good sides. it only works now because circumstances allow him to have a righteous war. but his dream is still inherently destructive and utterly pointless. and i really dislike it when pirate tries to sell me this "oh his heart is in the right place" schtick.

honestly, if i ever drop this story, it will be because of flos, i've thought this several times while reading TWI now. i'm genuinely terrified of what will happen when he actually makes contact with some of the characters i like and how they will interact. erin called him a "jerk" once, and i'm genuinely worried that that's as far as they will go.

>>21006818
There is the Great Ship series about a Jovian-sized (Jupiter) space ship circumnavigating the Milky Way on a 500k year journey, that I have been discussing lately but I have a feeling that isn't it.
Humans seize the ship on the outskirts of the galaxy and become the defacto owners, treating the ship like a huge galactic cruise liner for those people and species willing to pay.

>>21006818
What you should do is look up the Generation ship trope and find examples from there.

Or, if you're lucky, the ones I mention here is one of them: Children of Time, Aurora.

>>21006818
Ring has to do with the same concept too, now that I'm thinking about it.

>>21006818

>>21007198
Ring by Stephen Baxter*

>>21001275
You are completely correct, the rest of Lyonesse is largely like Suldrun's Garden post-suicide.

The closest thing I can think of would be Piranesi, a lot of time is spent on the minutia of the protagonists daily life and like Suldrun they're essentially trapped. If you want dramas in castles you could try Chalion.

Also if you felt slighted by Suldrun's death I would be cautious of reading Araminta Station

>>21006818
Could easily be Book of the Long Sun

>>21007267
It was this one...but it's bad according to discussion

>The iron ingot was worthy of being an iron ingot, and the glass jar was cracked with just one blow

Hmmmmm

Xianxia gurochad reporting in sir.

Teng Li suddenly opened his eyes. His eyes had no light and were bloodshot. His lips quivered and his jaw
was clenched.
Wang Lin drew a complex symbol in the air with his right hand. Then, he bit his finger and flicked a drop
of blood onto Teng Li’s head.
Teng Li let out a groan as his body started to violently twitch. Things started to move under his skin and
made their way to his chest.
Not long after, Teng Li’s body visibly shrunk as all the muscles and veins in his body formed a big ball of
meat on his chest.
Wang Lin’s eyes lit up. His right hand waved and sent out another technique. With a bang, the ball of meat separated from Teng Li’s body. His body was now just a bag of bones.

What is the deal with Sci Fi and dolphins?

>>21006818
I shall seal the heavens by Er Gen

Oh my god the xianxia schizo is back guy, please nobody reply to him or mention him if you do I will shit and cum

>>21007345
It's only bad compared to New Sun and Short Sun, which are some of the best sci-fi ever written. Long Sun is still quite good overall. But you should really read all of it in order, so New, then Long, then Short Sun (though you can do Urth right after New if you want to).

So i tried reading some of The Wandering Inn after seeing people talk about it on here, but I have only made about 1/3 of the way through vol 1 and I'm having trouble.
The main problem is the story is so female gazed it's giving me brain damage. DOes it get any better?

>>21007957
No ⅓

Based.

>>21007957
What does it mean female gazed? That the main PoV is female?

>>21006818
Orphans of the Sky

>when you ask for sf and someone recommends a post apocalyptic medieval setting

>>21008025
is it out yet?

>>21007957
The main storyline around Erin has that female wish fulfilment tone. Where problems are resolved by feelings, compassion and dangerous people changing their ways after exchanging a few sentences with her.

Ryoka's POVs are better. Her story is more about self-destruction and her dealing with shit way beyond her even though how her story starts gives the opposite impression.

I have never had the issue with the other major POV's. The Doctor, The Blind Emperor, The King, Goblins, The Hero etc... none of them reek of Erin's "le heckin quirky girl fixes problems by being sweet to fantasy minorities."

>>21008180
No.
I mean the story has a heavy tone of feminine idealism that affects the way characters and the world operates making it fairly unrealistic and cringey.
i.e the author is clearly writing from her female gaze.
Examples of female gaze having a different effect are books like fifty shades, and twilight.

Extreme male gaze is just as bad, and gives you mind numbing garbage like I shall seal the heavens, and Rising of a shield hero.

>>21008321
>dangerous people changing their ways after exchanging a few sentences with her.
Any instances of that? Because I read the story twice and it strikes me as very disingenious portrayal of her character. Erin doesn't 'talk no jutsu', even if she does pull people on her side. Erin does that through pathological selflessness and compassion. And she does that aggresively. Hell, many of her friends were people that tried to kill her at one point or another.

I don't disagree that Erin has been Mary Suish at some points, but by saying she's just beeing 'sweet to fantasy minorities' you show the entire point of the story went over your head.

>>21008408
Anon, the author of TWI is a man. We know that for a fact because some shops leaked his name when he released his spin-off comic in the same universee. But even if that didn't happen it would still be obvious the author is a man, it shows in everything in the story, from the works that inspired the story, the way characters act and the themes. The story does exhibit feminine idealisation, but that's because the author has action girl fetish.

The story is the opposite of female gaze, it's extremely male brained and if you don't see that you need to read other great works of fantasy, because clearly you don't understand how is it possible that an author can competently write a woman character despite not being one. Jesus, are you even an adult?

>>21001475
>that illustration
No, I don't think I will.

>>21000871
What's the general consensus on Malazan here? I am at book 8 right now and honestly I don't enjoy it as much as I think I should. The writing is a bit frustrating, the characters feel shallow, bland and unoriginal except for some amazing ones, the world was supposed to be super unique and big but the longer I read the more I realize that it's just big with some parts of it being very unique and interesting... Every time I read it I enjoy like 10-20% of every book, the rest being readable and reasonably fun but not something I'd want to spend my time on. In general I feel like the series is 10-20% cool, unique and very well made and the rest being also made well, but also bland and kinda boring and definitely not justifying all the time spent on it. Like it's way too long for it's own good. I just feel like I'm wasting time, I wanted to read some 3deep5me fantasy but I struggle to see the depth in Malazan, nor is it easy enough for it to be a chill read for me.

>>21002739
bump

>>21008415
She had an entire goblin army fight for her because she fed them. The original chess club was ready to die because of whatever pittance they received from her. Pisces was ready to die for her in vol 1. Klbkch did die. Not to mention the devotion Antinium end up having towards her, they have a religion with her as one of the central figures.

For more recent examples. The putrid one, the guy who killed millions in his bloodlust, sacrificed himself for her after exchanging a few words. What reason did the many members of the Brothers, a criminal organization, have to fight for her wars? They keep coming back after more and more of their members die without her paying them anything.

I'm falling behind my arbitrary dozen books per year goal for 2022. Can someone recommend something short and easy (that's still a full novel) I can finish in 2 weeks?

>>21008531
No, now fuck off.

>>21003037
Make it interesting
Don't turn it into haremshit

>>21008535
Rude

>*laughs in 64 books completed*
>*cries in 7 books behind schedule*

>>21008524
Literally only shockingly bad misunderstandings of events. How you could have such a low reading comprehension is beyond me

>>21008238
Not yet.

>>21008549
>Erin self-inserter when confronted with examples has no rebuttal.
Erin is a shit character and most of the time reality bends around her to make her way of achieving results viable.

>140 of 60 books completed masterrace

>>21007957
>>21008408
>female gazed
>writing from her female gaze
i think it's the exact opposite. though you might have a point with "feminine idealism". because the way i see it, a lot of the female characters actually appeal to the male gaze.
it definitely becomes more apparent the further i read. lately i've even read a lot of scenes where people get naked for some reason or another (not necessarily to have sex).
i'm pretty sure i've seen that TWIs readership is 70% male or something close to that. and the female characters are generally trying to appeal to my male sensibilities.

>>21008531
Just read whatever is shortest on your list of books to read.

>laughs as I read the books I want, when I want, not stressing about having to complete an arbitrary schedule

>implying I'm filling a schedule

>>21008444
I have read lots of fantasy (don't know about great works), and The wandering inn feels a lot more like Throne of glass (very "female" writing), than The Way of Shadows (very "male" writing), or something like Stormlight, or Earthsea (more balanced in my opinion).

But you could be right, maybe I'm just retarded.

>>21008584
>most of the time reality bends around her to make her way of achieving results viable
yes, and? my wife's that cool

What fantasy books do have JRPG feeling?

>>21008491
Most people like Malazan
Some think its 2deep4u
Some think it's shit

>>21008926
there is a category called litrpg

>>21008926
If you mean feeling rather than literal mechanics, then Brandon Sanderson, especially The Way of Kings, though that increasingly becomes mixed in with being Marvel movies.
Or, you can read his novelizations of the RPG Infinity Blade.

>>21008943
Usually those are more CRPG/WRPG rather than JRPG.
>>21008926
Japanese light novels that are trying to be JRPGs would be the closest. Especially novelizations of the games, like those in your image.

She ruled supreme over Wolfe.

>>21008662
>i'm pretty sure i've seen that TWIs readership is 70% male or something close to that. and the female characters are generally trying to appeal to my male sensibilities.
Has the survey even been published? I would be surprised if TWI had even 10% of readers being female, webnovels and litrpgs especially have overwhelmingly male reader base. I don't think there's even a single noticably popular female written webnovel.

Are there any well written Warhammer fantasy or 40k books? Looking for something more than a typical action romp written at a middle school level.

Why does Wolfe make Bakkerfags seethe so much?

>>21009100
I like both

>>21009086
Browse the archives.

>>21009041
Not that anon
Royalroad is not the only webnovel site. Wattpad exists and is far more popular.
https://www.wattpad.com/story/5095707-after
706 million reads.

>>21009141
I was talking about webnovels in context of fantasy/science-fiction. Of course women read romances (almost exclusively). Books, both traditional and online, are the most feminized media on the planet. Wasn't Wattpad the site that at an entrance asked you for the gender, and gave fantasy etc. recommendations when Male, and only romances and dramas when Female? Or was it Tapas?

Nevertheless, the Veen Diagram of typical fantasy readers and female readers almost doesn't touch. How high is the percent of women reading on Royalroad? Less than 10%? Less than 5%? We all know why, and denying that is silly.

>>21009239
Women are now the majority readers in all newly released genre fiction except hard SF, so I don't know what you mean. Fantasy is now dominated by female readers.

>>21009041
90% means nothing when most of them are coomers or liberals/lgtb.

>>21009239
Well, from a quick search most sources say probably about a third is women, which about the same as 4chan or Reddit.

>>21009141
I looked at most popular and editor picks and its all female/black/gay, fantasy section also seems quite pozzed, not sure what is the point of that site, maybe to contain all those people to one site

>>21009041
It's still girly though

>>21009261
>Women are now the majority readers in all newly released genre fiction except hard SF, so I don't know what you mean. Fantasy is now dominated by female readers.
Fantasy romance. Anon, it's just fantasy aesthetics for romance and typical relationship drama. I know it, you know it, everbody knows it. No one takes books like 'Court of Thorns and Roses' seriously. Cassandra Clare, Sarah J. Mass and similar are the best selling female authors, and they write that kind of shallow, vapid and overdramatized romance dramas in fantasy settings. It's the porn for women. People like Naomi Novik, Robin Hobb and other serious female authors are exceptionally rare. And their audiences are mostly male.

>>21009306
It seems really doubtful to me that any female author with a significant readership could have a male majority readership if only because so few males read any female authors at all.

>>21006820
woke trash.

>>21009270
>>21009261
>>21009141
>>21008662

>>21009273
Please tell me your sources, because there was a survey three years ago in TWI community and the result are clear: only 9.4% readers were Female. Not the third. So my prediction was correct, and I don't think TWI suddenly attracted more female readers years after it started. This type of fiction is simply not attractive to women, by and large.

>>21009447
To be precise that's of the readers who took that survey on that subreddit rather than the overall readers. It may not be that different though. I was never arguing specifically about TWI though.

>>21009447
Here's the 2020 version. It's similar.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Aek-W0ZBYcIXZ3bSCuvud9bISQZvYV2dOaoIHvTKffc/viewanalytics

>>21009524
>conducting a survey
>on reddit
Meaningless

>>21009552
Poll on reddit will increase the female demographic if anything. Everywhere else you will have even higher male numbers.

>>21009566
Reddit is arguably just as male-dominated as 4chan. Forum stuff in general is very 'male' unless it has a specifically female-oriented subject matter.

How do you guys feel about complex world-building, specifically mythological components with gods/deities that are key elements throughout the larger narrative? I've found that if done well, it can be a pretty interesting vehicle for telling a story, but if done poorly, it becomes impossible to remember what is what in any context.

>>21009661
>world-building

>>21009661
The best world-building is the kind where you only flesh out what the story needs and otherwise just have a convincing-looking cardboard cut-out of everything else.

>>21000871
The more I read of Prince of Nothing the more obvious it is to me that Kellhus is Bakker's self insert, and it is fucking cringe.

>>21009692
True, problem is it can take a while to figure out even 20% of what you read had no purpose.

>>21008531
You do keep a list of all the books you own and have not read yet in Excel with page counts and Goodreads scores and publication dates for easy sorting correct? If not, then do that first, then sort by page count ascending and go from there. if they are ebooks you can lookup page counts on Goodreads. you are welcome.

>>21009566
>>21009573
the "males" on reddit do not represent an actual average male, while the male on 4chan is very close to a definition of a straight white male. So while 100% reddit males read female/progressive/lgbt/black fiction very few normal males would even consider reading something like that.

>>21009748
>Being this much if a try hard to fit in.
Can you be more pathetic?

>>21009748
Jesus Christ, just shut up with your retardation already. Why you underage faggots haven't been ban yet, eludes me.

>>21008491
There is no depth in Malazan and it is an easy and chill read. I greatly enjoyed the series except for parts 5, 9 and 10. All your criticisms are correct. The characters are basically all shit and the author is a retard who drags everything out for far too long. Too much dialogue, too many monologues, all around too much nonsense. The books are all 500 pages longer than they should be. How did I cope with that? After the second or third book I learned to filter what is actually relevant and what isn’t and I started to simply skip the things that are pointless. It’s really simple and enjoyable fantasy and I’ll read the whole thing a second time (expect for book five).

>>21009661
>hey guys, I just realized world building can be fun
this is you, but less pretentious.

>>21008926
Wheel of Time
The Belgariad
Riftwar
The first 10 books in the Drizzt saga
Cleric Quintet
Actually most books set in shared universes (forgotten realms, Dragonlance, dark sun etc) have strong RPG banter Vibes for obvious reasons.

>>21003552
What's kinda interesting about the isekai craze is that the path of the genre is basically just repeating the trends from portal fantasy like half a century ago with your initial craze, derivative knockoffs, cheap subversions, then more substantial subversions etc

Come, my friends,
'T is not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.

Wait, what the fuck, this is actually good

>>21009765
Pathetic lol. Shut your mouth you damn faggot.

>>21010049
Go back to /pol/ with your brainrot.

>>21009937
Isekai is of low value and low quality. Being somewhat interesting is the only positive quality it has.

>>21010045
No, it's not.

>>21010079
It’s better than reverend insanity, but that’s a low-bar to clear.

>>21010079
I dunno man, this is a really fucking fun setup for me, and it's all clicked so far
>wizard man who's hiding his identity for some reason meets a guy on a train
>the guy is on his way to wizard school where he's just been hired as a new professor
>suddenly there's a terrorist attack
>in the aftermath, professor is dead and wizard man is forced to take on his identity to stay hidden
>professor's identity is surprisingly easy to assume, no parents, no close friends, no girlfriend etc
>turns out this is because professor was also hiding his identity as member of a secret villain org
>wizard man now unable to escape as he's being watched by the academy, the government, and the secret org at once
>proceed to interweave chapters of him dealing with students' Harry Potter-esque exploits and the main plot intrigue

>>21006632
Don't know how you spend your weekend, but I don't like wasting them sitting behind a monitor 24/7 or being on my phone all the time. If the thread is going slow, let it be slow, there's no reason why you should be shocked if it barely has 100 posts if it's up for hours.

>>21010088
Is there romance/female characters?

>>21010112
Why does that matter?

>>21010112
I wouldn't be surprised if some gets built up later, but right now it's just stuff like students crushing on him while he's too busy deciphering coded letters to care

>>21010116
It is one way to determine the quality and the potential of the novel.

>>21010121
>students crushing on him
Sounds like (unnecessary) drama

>>21010126
That's a really stupid way to arbitrary decide if something's good or not. Especially if you don't read it yourself

>>21010134
Could be, but drama tends to be the lifeblood of serial fiction anyway, so I imagine the medium as a whole would fail to appeal

>Bird in Pallass
Holy shit I can't stop laughing
Volume 7 has been phenomenal so far

>>21010104
fuck off arrogant ass hole

>>21010175
None of what I said was arrogant, just plain fact.

>>21010186
I mean you sound like that usual stupid arrogant asshole and if you're not whatever

>>21010136
No its not, the presence of women and romance often indicates that the author has shitty imagination and poor writing skills and can only advance the plot through drama and mc interactions with women.

It might start out good because author had an inspiration and put in extra work in beginning but he cannot sustain it for long, what happens then is a woman is brought in and the plot only advances because of her. Otherwise mc would be alone on a very uneventful journey until the very until the final boss, so how does shitty author fixes this? Well bring in the women and drama, write irrational shit caused by women characters that will cause all kinds of drama and irrational events to happen and that will put mc in shitty situations, that will at least give something for the mc to do, occupy him on his journey until the final boss. So many authors do this, so much wasted time and creative energy writing pure garbage.

>>21010104
Fucking A. There's another general called Horror fiction general, and it's been up for almost a week now with above-average posts. Wish /sffg/ was more like that, laidback and slow.

>>21010205
Someone saying they don’t like spending their weekend behind their monitor or phone is arrogant now?

>>21010207
My guy, if you’re gay, just come out and say it. There’s literally a fantasy sub genre for homosexual fantasy readers called queer fantasy. No need to try and appear big brain on here.

>>21010207
What's your list of all time best fantasy that includes neither women nor romance. You got like two whole books there?

>>21010217
no I mean the stupid arrogant guy, he is just an asshole poster

>>21010207
based but cringe

>>21010217
Anon, please remember where you are. People here are terminally online, so someone saying they do the bare minimum and go outside to touch grass is arrogant.

>newfag attention-feeding power hours
/sffg/, like 4chan at large, is too big and thus too susceptible to bullshit.

>>21010207
In what books has this ever happened?

>>21010214
It hasn't existed long enough to be a viable and reliable source for energy vampires. If it manages to continue existing eventually it will become much worse.

>>21010223
Consider for a moment that a heros journey does not have to involve sex (straight or gay), interesting things can happen without involvment of women and without sex, surely irl you had at least one experience when something interesting happened with other people, men (who weren't gay), it wasn't sexual and at the time there were no women involved.

>>21010262
Like in almost every B tier fantasy and scifi, and in many top rated ones too.

>>21010329
You didn't answer my question, what's your list of great womanless, romanceless fantasy? Can't include LotR, or Beowulf, or the Odyssey, or Conan, or King Arthur, or Faust, or Shakespeare. Seems tough.

>>21010329
Agin, anon, there’s always queer fantasy, a few of those even tailor to male gays and that they don’t have any women and just focuses on the men. It’ll be up your alley.

>>21010356
Or the works of Lewis, Gaiman, Bujold, Le Guin, Pratchett, Murakami, Ishiguro, Susanna Clarke, Poe, Twain, and Carroll, to broaden the field

>>21010394
>Pratchett
monstorous regiment has no girls :)

>>21010395
Lel. I think his one about the senile Conan storming Olympus gets close, except for all the goddesses. Turns out, it's quite hard to excise any book that has women in any capacity

>>21010262
the galaxy’s edge series is military sci-fi that’s basically just the iraq/afghanistan war but the towelheads are aliens. I haven’t read all the books but I can’t really think of any female characters off the top of my head

>>21000871
I loved it so much bros.
I think it might actually be the best of the three.
Why do people seem to think less of it? Is it because the movies shifted most of Frodo and Sam’s journey in Book 4 to RotK?

I'm reading Snowcrash and The Citadel of the Autarch now

>>21010452
>Why do people seem to think less of it?
Why do you care what other people think? If you like it, that’s all that matters.

>>21010479
What kind of person is content with not knowing the reasoning other people have for holding differing opinions? What a lame way to live

>>21010489
Because I don’t care what others think not do I seek their validation? Ienjoy what I read.

>>21010479
>>21010569
>post on a sff literature discussion thread
>why would you ask other people what they think about a book you like?
literally, unironically, wtf?

>>21010207
>So many authors do this, so much wasted time and creative energy writing pure garbage.
I don’t think you read at all since I rarely, if ever, saw this happen

>>21010577
>I like this book
>oh shit, /sffg/ hates it, better pretend to hate it
Stop being a sheep and just read what you enjoy, and stop giving two shits what other people think. I like Pratchett, but /sffg/ hates him because he’s “Reddit”, whatever the fuck that means. Not going to pretend to hate him due to that.

>>21010589
I’m not the two towers respecter, but he didn’t say anything about changing his opinion because others said so.

>>21010589
>I like Pratchett, but /sffg/ hates him because he’s “Reddit”, whatever the fuck that means.
You can ignore people who say Pratchett is reddit, they literally have no argument and trying to bash him due to his popularity.

>>21010452
>I loved it so much bros.
Good, what's the issue?

>>21010600
The fact that he’s bothered by others not liking it, should clue you in.

>>21010606
>You can ignore people who say Pratchett is reddit, they literally have no argument and trying to bash him due to his popularity.
I know, which is why I don’t bother with people’s opinions here.

>>21010580
Literally happens in almost every fantasy book. End of chapter 1, often in chapter 2 or at the very least in chapter 3 a female character is introduced who will follow mc on his journey, they may be travelling companions or romantic partners.

The main issue is that science fiction and to an extent fantasy is supposed introduce the reader to some new concept, maybe a ground braking idea, about science, about universe, space, about magic, physical and metaphysical stuff that blows your mind and that rarely happens these days. When you can't write interesting stuff but still need to release only thing left to do is write sex and drama.

>>21010631
What's your deal with you seething about women in fantasy? All the classics had them.

>>21010634
I said once and it say it again, he’s gay and he hasn’t come to terms with it.

>>21010634
sex and drama lowers the quality of science fiction and fantasy literature to level of trash.

>>21010637
I said before and I will say it again. Shut your filthy mouth you goddamn faggot.

>>21010642
Hey, I ain’t the one making derange rants like you with >>21010207 that shit reeks of homosexuality.

>>21010640
>drama lowers the quality of science fiction and fantasy literature to level of trash.
So basically, every science fiction and fantasy is trash to you, since they involve exciting, emotional, or unexpected series of events or set of circumstances.

What are some good weird sci-fi? The kind of stuff that makes you think the author is insane. I'm a huge fan of Harlan Ellison, for example.

>>21010659
>What are some good weird sci-fi?
Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs)
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/guIyhAzS

>>21010651
Certain emotions are allowed, others are not. Anything relating to sex, intimacy or drama/romantic feelings should not be in science fiction and fantasy.

>>21010673
>Certain emotions are allowed, others are not.
Then your arbitrary reasoning doesn't make sense since you hate drama. Either you're bullshiting, which I'm inclined to believe, or you don't know what you're talking about, outside of your irrational hatred for women.

>>21010642
Damn this nigga mad

>>21010684
Closeted gay men are often the most homophobic. Doesn’t surprise me he gets angry when called out on it.

>>21010676
Good job, anon. You can identify bullshit and moving the goal post.

>>21010631
>Literally happens in almost every fantasy book. End of chapter 1, often in chapter 2 or at the very least in chapter 3 a female character is introduced who will follow mc on his journey, they may be travelling companions or romantic partners.
What do you read? I'm actually being serious right now. I mean, the mere mention or introduction of a woman makes you see red, that I can't imagine you reading at all.

>>21010684
It’s kinda funny to see.

>>21010475
Which ones do you like more?

>>21010256
Saying that you don’t spend 24/7 on you computer and phone should not be arrogant, fucking hell. I, at least, take jogs around my neighborhood.

>tfw you're so deprived of dopamine you degenerate to reading YA fantasy written by women for women

>>21010791
What’s the problem?

>>21009086
You do know they're just schlock, right? That's kinda their deal.

>>21010792
>He mad online

>>21010806
What?

>>21009086
Watchers of the Throne
Head of the Hydra
Master of Mankind
Eisenhorn
The Infinite and the Divine

After that read Red Rising

>>21010807
I think he's just some schizo rambling.

>>21010816
Which one would you rank first to last?

>>21010819
Watchers of the Throne is the only must read, then descending order for the rest

>>21010822
Thanks.

>>21010836
You do need to at least have some background info about the factions or some of the important characters in 40k books, or else a ton of stuff will just fly over your head without you realizng the significance of it

>>21010843
Which books should I read first then.

>>21010846
Eisenhorn I guess
Good luck lol
Didn't dive into 40k books until I spent like 100 hours watching youtube videos on the setting, reading wikis and codexes, lots of nerd shit

>>21010854
Yeah, I’m not watching YouTube videos, I have better ways to pass the time.

>>21010854
>Didn't dive into 40k books until I spent like 100 hours watching youtube videos on the setting, reading wikis and codexes, lots of nerd shit
Why not just read the books or tabletop game lore?

>>21010861
Some books assume you already have x or y knowledge about certain topics while others hold your hand. You could spend hours reading the tabletop codices for lore but that's boring as fuck

>>21010875
>You could spend hours reading the tabletop codices for lore but that's boring as fuck
Yeah, that's what reading is, anon.

>>21010886
If you've ever read a Warhammer 40k codex, aside from background info that can be read on wikis (for free) the "lore" is literally just like:
>"Astonius Gigachadius, (a literal who), Shield-Captain of the Adeptus Custodes, fought Asterion Worldkiller (another literally who) of the Black Legion, on the Imperium planet Clitorius. 10 gorillion people die with 5 billion lost to cannibalism. Decisive Imperium victory."

>>21010910
You do know that Warhammer is edgy for the sake of edgy, right? That doesn't surprise me.

>>21010910
Wouldn’t be the first fantasy/science-fiction that tried to be historical with its own setting.

>>21010926
I can see it being an issue if its done poorly, and since this is Warhammer 40k. It's most likely done poorly

>>21010932
That’s a given, but that’s because it’s more of a tabletop than anything else. Most video game novels face similar issues. The resident evil novels being the sole exception in my opinion

>>21010937
>The resident evil novels
Are you talking about the game novels or the movie novels? Because S.D. Perry did a great job on the game novels, and I have never read the movie novels

>>21010950
I’m talking about the game novels, as far as I’m concerned, they’re they only good ones I’ve read besides fall of reach and Ghost of Onyx.

>>21010950
>Because S.D. Perry did a great job on the game novels
>A woman
Oh no

>>21010972
Read the novels before you make a stupid post.

>>21010972
Yes, anon, we get it, you’re gay, you made it clear with your rant earlier, no need to force it every discussion. Have some common courtesy.

>>21010968
>I’m talking about the game novels
Ah, that's good, still mad that they gave Rebecca the limelight whereas she just disappeared from the games after Racoon city.

>>21010910
Ah, shit, you reminded that there’s an anon with a shit ton of warhammer books. Like two bookshelves of them. Fuck, I can’t imagine buying that many books.

>>21011002
>Like two bookshelves of them. Fuck, I can’t imagine buying that many books.
You have seen the bookshelf threads? Most people just buy books to posture, they don't even read them.

>>21011010
I’ve seen those thread, never really posted in those thread since I remember one had a shit ton of funkopops or whatever.

>>21011016
Same with the dark academia, seems more people are just interested in the aesthetic and outward appearance of reading than actually reading.

>>21010816
>After that read Red Rising
Why would he read Red Rising? That's YA, hunger games YA.

>>21011054
Only the first book is hunger games, but even then, I wouldn’t recommend the series.

>>21011067
The entire first trilogy is hunger games. Holy shit, I don’t know why people insist that it’s the first book only, it’s literally hunger games on Mars.

>>21011078
>I don’t know why people insist that it’s the first book only,
Isn't it one fag who shills the series the best he can and tries to omit that part? It's an average series, and for a YA series, its decent and worth the read, but I don't know why he's so disingenuous abut that part.

>>21011078
You're functionally retarded

>>21011098
Hey, I’m being honest, don’t know why you keep lying it isn’t.

>>21011102
Draw some parallels between the series and let's see

What are some fictional history books (not historical fiction)? I can only think of Tolkien, GRRM, and old stuff like Geoffrey of Monmouth.

>>21011102
Don't bother, anon. It's pointless.

>>21011107
The first book. Which even reviews and critics said

>>21011108
Tolkien, GRRM, Geoffrey of Monmouth.

>>21011112
>The entire first trilogy is hunger games. Holy shit, I don’t know why people insist that it’s the first book only,
Pls explain

>>21011116
You’re really trying hard to be obtuse.

>>21011121
I think you need to brush up on that reading comprehension anon

>>21011113
Thank you.

>>21011116
>Pls explain
Red Rising = Hunger Games
Golden Son = Catching Fire
Morning Star = Mockingjay
The only difference being that Suzanne Collins had written The Underland Chronicles before making Hunger Games. Pierce Brown is just one of the many dystopian YA authors that tried to capitalize on Hunger Games sucess.

>>21011108
None, since not many people are interested in that.

>>21011140
>They're both trilogies so each book in the series is 1:1 to each other!
pls try harder man

>>21011168
Yeah, sure. Both have a society split up into different fractions, depending on what they provide the world. Both have arenas with teens killing each other, while patrons look on and provide gifts for their favored participants. Both have protagonists who have signature weapons from a hunter/gatherer society. And this is the first book. I mean, shit, I would have respected Pierce more if he copied Collins even more blatantly. Really hammer home the fact that he wrote his books on her coattails.

>>21011180
Ok now do books 2 and 3

>>21011187
No, I'll rather read my book, but fuck off trying to pretend Red Rising isn't some hunger games rip off.

>>21011199
>runs away from argument
I win

>>21011140
Yeh I agree
The third books are very similar too

>>21009748
you're beyond delusional and heavily buying into a narrative. have you ever seen 4chan meetup photos? this place is very far from all white. you'll probably find more on reddit in fact.

>>21011180
Kek, how was he not charged with plagiarism?

I don't understand how people shit on stormlight then praise red rising. It's total YA trash and it isn't even original.

>>21011212
Looks like it's just one guy praising Red Rising.

>>21011212
Looks like I'll have to read Chad Rising just so I can dunk on Stormlight even more

>>21011180
Second book adds ender’s game and game of thrones. Don’t know about the third, I personally stop reading after the second book. I probably should have stop after that scene where the author wrote himself into a corner and had to Gary Stu his character to survive.

red rising would have been better if darrow died halfway through second book then we got fitchners PoV instead

>>21011209
Aside from the broad strokes the first books are nothing alike in the setup or execution. Hunger Games is set up as a Battle Royal with the last man standing while Red Rising is set up as some sort of team-based wargame with no rules barred. The Red Rising series would be better summarized as a slave or barbarian revolt against Space Romans than Hunger Games. The second series is basically The Punic Wars but in space.

>>21011238
Nah, I don’t trust you, you’re probably the one that keeps on shilling it here.

>>21011244
I don't care what you think.
Either read it or move on, it makes no difference to me.

>>21011209
It's too different to be plagiary, but it never ceases to amaze me how blatantly waman pop authors steal from each other. Read the Anita Blake books if you want to see some real shit.

>>21011259
Pierce Brown is a man, anon.

>>21011262
Ackshually , he's not referring to PB directly in his statement, so it can be inferred grammatically that he's attribuing the statement to Anita Blake instead.

New thread
>>21011591

New thread
>>21011642

>>21011645
stop making threads and then deleting and reposting them ffs