/lit/ - Literature

People finally figured out that this idol of materialists is a crazy fuck. Good! Finally!

you just don't understand Nietzsche. when N says "God is dead" he doesn't mean that people have stopped believing in God. He means that the will to truth that originated in Christianity and culminated in the enlightenment has made belief in God untenable, but all of our moral values, including truth, come from Christianity. Hence, secular atheists like Dawkins or Harris don't realize that by undermining God they have undermined all of Christian morality and metaphysics, hence "God is dead." They think they can keep Christian morality without the Christian God, but N thinks they can't. Hence, in a world has Christian values but no Christian God, people are bound to become nihilistic. N doesn't think the enlightenment made Christianity obsolete, he thinks the enlightenment is the natural outgrowth of Christian values. Also N thinks suffering *is* life, suffering is the natural condition of life, so he wouldn't say it better to commit suicide than live sickly. N thinks that instead of seeing suffering as bad, as Christianity nihilistically does, we should see suffering as natural and embrace it, and learn to take pride in the fact that we endure.

>>21650569
>>21650795
>nietzsche is a nihilist materialist antichrist1!!1!!
honestly you shouldn't be legally allowed to buy his works unless you have an iq of at least 120.

>>21651324
Imagine getting this surface level of a reason. Nietsche is 0% allegory. He was a classicist. He literally believes God is literally dead. There was an execution and corpse. And it was in antiquity. That's what he believed

>>21651324
>we should see suffering as natural and embrace it, and learn to take pride in the fact that we endure.

Thats literally Christianity. One of the problems with Nietzsche is that he doesn't really ever engage Christianity on its own terms. He always reads it through his own mode of thinking and as a consequence always views Christianity through hermeneutics of suspicion as will to power. There is never any engagement between two holistic ideas with Nietzsche, he takes his thought as self-evident. Which consequently makes all further debates pointless. In a meta sense, even any objection to this is always already a proof of his being right. Any objection or reference to rationality or reason is always already pre-determined to be contaminated by will to power, ressentiment, slave morality and so forth. Of course his vulgar perspectivism is self-refuting but to point this out, to even think in this way, to think by a "standard of truth", already proves will to power correct again you see, since what is truth but a disguise for will to power? *Whose* truth? This is why any argument with Nietzscheans always turns into cacaphony. Nietzsche unpacked is od course a sophmoric.l thinker as a whole but with a few interesting ideas. A prime example od a thinker where the more you understand him, the less impressive he is. Not surprisingly, his most ardent supporters are mediocre minds who cannot make their way out of the maze he constructed.

>>21651499
is this what chatgpt outputs if you ask it to seethe about nietzsche?

>>21651508
You're proving the post correct

>>21651324
>N thinks that instead of seeing suffering as bad, as Christianity nihilistically does, we should see suffering as natural and embrace it,
Christianity doesn't see suffering as unanimously bad though, and part of N's critique of christianity was its appraisal of suffering and meekness for its own sake at odds with an intrinsic human will to power, thats why he found christianity to be life-denying as a religion which goes denies the most basal human need. Christianity appraises suffering for it's ability to nihilate and dissolve the and to debase things like pride and self-identification, yes, but it does not believe in suffering in a necessarily nihilistic or pessimistic sense. N differs in that suffering for him should be a means of raising the individual and asserting one's individuality in the world, whereas Christianity looks at breaking down the limits between one person and another though suffering and the experience of agape.

>>21651324
>all of our moral values, including truth, come from Christianity
Where is the evidence for this assertion? What about all the various other cultures of the world that still have all kinds of moral norms absent Christianity?

>>21652293
Well those people's values don't come from Christianity and Nietzsche is not talking about them when he speaks about Christianity? I don't really understand what you are asking here.

>>21652570
You can't say all our values come from Christianity when there are plenty of values we have which come or could easily come from elsewhere. Truth is something valued in every culture which has the slightest cultural development (ie, excluding most of Africa).

>>21652592
Nietzsche obviously spoke in a Christian context, or in the context of a Christian society. When he says "all our values" he does not mean "all values in human history". Have you read anything Nietzsche wrote?

>>21650795
>this idol of materialists
he's no fucking idol of mine and I'm a "materialist", Nitch and his problems (wow, that's a good title for a future book) are like laxatives for a constipated person who's been gummed up with Christian-Abramic Theological Nonsenses - and specifically who wishes to believe in them still but wants to not. or something like this.

Nitch is a Christian and his air of nihilism appeals to the Christian disposition, note that he does not say "god is not real," he says "god is dead."

>>21651324
>>21651499
>>we should see suffering as natural and embrace it, and learn to take pride in the fact that we endure.
>Thats literally Christianity.
No, Christian (or Abramic in general) does not 'accept' that stuff, or attempts to examine it rationally and overcome it, it reframes ordinary life in a fantasy narrative, swaps around the virtues and the vices and proclaims that nothing is real "in this life", and reinforces the nihilism (or starts it and then reinforces it) which is inherent to that disposition. i.e. if you pretend the world is an illusion you obviously don't take anything in the world seriously.

>>all of our moral values, including truth, come from Christianity
Abramic Ethnos (habits from racial culture) ought not be confused with 'your' Ethos (habits from local culture) or Logos (logic, intelligence), but this is what you guys do when you replace your brain with a foreign peoples crazed racial dogma.

>>21652609
>All our values come from Christianity
>Well, that's not true.
>By "all our values" I don't mean all our values. I don't actually mean anything, now that I think about it. It's uh, a Christian context... have you even read Nietzsche?

>>21651499
>Any objection or reference to rationality or reason is always already pre-determined to be contaminated by will to power, ressentiment, slave morality and so forth
Indeed, he has preemptively refuted you and retroactively refuted the rest of the intellectual tradition, highly based.
>Of course his vulgar perspectivism is self-refuting but to point this out, to even think in this way, to think by a "standard of truth", already proves will to power correct again you see, since what is truth but a disguise for will to power?
You're doing the exact same thing you accuse Nietzsche of by presupposing a scholastic conception of truth as the only admissible one and then making facile, sophomoric points about self-refutation, and hilariously, it is proving Nietzsche right on a meta-level.
>This is why any argument with Nietzscheans always turns into cacaphony.
No, it turns into music, and you hear the argument with Nietzscheans unfold wonderfully throughout the entirety of 20th century philosopy.
>A prime example od a thinker where the more you understand him, the less impressive he is. Not surprisingly, his most ardent supporters are mediocre minds who cannot make their way out of the maze he constructed.
Oh shut the fuck up you massive pseud, he is respected even by his worst adversaries provided they're intellectually honest because he is an unrivalled genius, and he exerted MASSIVE influence on thinkers from Wittgenstein to Adorno to Heidegger to Bergson to Foucault, themselves the giants of 20th century philosophy.
Find me one critic of Nietzche here who isn't a transparently buttblasted tradcath-larper. Just one.

>>21651499
>Thats literally Christianity
Not with the promise of Judgement Day, Resurrection and eternal bliss in the afterlife.

>>21652616
I must apologize, I was responding too hastily. I thought you were talking about Nietzsche, not about some person's interpretation of Nietzsche.

>>21652617
NTA but I think most of those authors (and many authors) recognize the tremendous influence of Nietzsche's aesthetics, but pretty much nobody takes his ideas seriously - nit because they are bad, but rather because they are far from coherent and seem more personal than anything.

>>21652631
>*(and many others)

>>21652618
> the promise of Judgement Day, Resurrection and eternal bliss in the afterlife.
give us this day our daily cope
forgive us, all-father, that our lives are a joke
squandering our millions of years of evolution
to stand idle and lazy in our own ablutions,
we have a brain and a pair of good hands
more than is ample to make prosper the land
but we shy from the tasks for they would be too much hassles
and contented instead we dress up in tassels
flouncing around with our vices unfurled
in your name, all-father, destroy the whole world
that we may be spared from the toil and the strife
of acting adult and living a life.

>>21652631
>but pretty much nobody takes his ideas seriously
Heidegger spent his 10 or so most formative years from the middle of the 1920's to the middle of the 1930's reading and lecturing on Nietzsche and formulated the majority of his philosophy on the background of it. Foucault basically just appropriated him and coupled it with shitty historiography. Wittgenstein took it deeply seriously in his late pragmatics, indeed, discovering Nietzsche is arguably the prime reason there is a difference between the early and late Wittgenstein. Adorno tried his very best to counter it with Hegel-pseudorevivalism and a programme of internal critique that would still be feasible in a Nietzschean world.
Saying his ideas aren't coherent is too easy when what they really to do the properly philosophically educated mind is challenge the very notion of coherence inherited from the scholastics.

>>21652631
I wouldn't say "nobody takes his ideas seriously". The thing is that Nietzsche just wasn't a systemic thinker like a Kant of Hegel was, and he never aimed to be. He didn't partake in structure-building, so there isn't really something to build upon. I think the best metaphor for that is Zarathustra's great noon: he rests at the tree and enjoys the moment for a while, but ultimately doesn't hold on it and keeps going somewhere else. That's how Nietzsche did philosophy. He has his "great ideas", but he never really bothers to create some greater whole from them because he doesn't think there is much of a point in that. So a "Nietzschean" isn't as immediately obvious as a Hegelean or Kantean would be.

how ever the jewish religion took hold
in the minds of a Gaul or a Gepid or girl
is so unlikely a thing that it's surely dark magic
and would be simply a comedy if it wasn't so tragic.

>>21652635
>>21652648
Your meter is lacking.

>>21652654
my meter is lacking, you say or you claim,
but you couldn't do better on your bestest day,
come pick up your flute and come challenge Apollo
again vain Marsayas if you think you can swallow
being crucified for your hubris, the action would please us
but these days you'd be liable to be mistaken for Jesus.

>>21652644
>Wittgenstein took it deeply seriously in his late pragmatics, indeed, discovering Nietzsche is arguably the prime reason there is a difference between the early and late Wittgenstein. Adorno tried his very best to counter it with Hegel-pseudorevivalism and a programme of internal critique that would still be feasible in a Nietzschean world.
I've said it before and I'll say it again
there's something quite off in the europid brain,
it's as if there's a hole that's been bored out by a drill
of which into the hole wretched dogma does fill,
even saved from religion by the works of Good Men
lo', see the Europid stuffing in more crap again.

>>21650569
Nihilism is the philosophy of the genius plebs,

God is dead. It's a pile of bones
I sned so hard I'm officially gone
You will not comfort me with respectful (you)'s
Neetzch, the fifth evangelist, brought the good news

He said: 'sneed and also feed'
For a noble man is known by his breed
That shines in his thoughts, in the way that he walks
Across the abyss to inexhaustible bliss

Christ sned beyond and also right in
The letters of Ol' Fred to me it's quite clean
Or clear or whatever primordial ooze
The tentacular Goodness cannot be defused

The bomb has been planted
No chance running from it
Now life gets enchanted
The King Chuck has cometh

He whispers through your dreams
'No need to be stubborn'
And banishes all fears
Pave way to the Aryan Gnosis

So load up the cannons
With words of tomorrow
And aim at the mammon
Like no one is watching

>>21650569
>same guy starting Nietzsche thread #50569 where he either pretends to be retarded or worse, actually is, so people who bothered to read can correct him time and time again while other brainless rejects swarm in to nod their empty heads in agreement
buddy, i think you just need some real friends at this point

>>21652724
I just wanna fuck a dude
His cum is so sticky like glue
I made his dick hard and it grew
His dick is so cool
suckin and ridin' it at school
his dick is all covered in my drool
I just wanna fuck a dude
smother his dick all up with lube
on his dick i see a bit of poop
his dick is so warm
makes my rectum feel cozy and squirm
i want his dick more than short-term
I wanna drink all of his sperm
this feelin' i just gotta reaffirm
I just wanna fuck a dude
Feel my butthole get screwed
I wanna see my guts all extrude

>>21652679
This is genuinely agonizing to read. Please atleast try to count syllables.

>>21652771
that's just off-topic, you effeminate homosexual you. nice rebuttal though where you give away your actual mentality, christian-nitch follower.

>>21652788
i.e. you cannot do any better

>>21652765
>Pave way to the Aryan Gnosis
Paving the way to the "Aryan Gnosis"?
prithy forsoth, you have to be joking,
replacing one fantasy narrative for another
is identical to the last guy "mens butts in lubricant smother",
I'll give you the courtesy of explaining your error
that you be corrected and "weigh no more than a feather",
see, it's the nihilism of the act of displacing your focus
away fromt world and onto hocus pocus
which distracts and disaudes the mind from its station
of construction and creation of a prosperous nation;
to the man under the heel of a profligate rule
he can't tell the difference between the wise and the fool,
whilst to him he sees barbarians decked out in tin hats
and imagines them equal to a legatus, in fact:
it's a disposition of uncontrolled pathos
that has the europid defer over all perceptual matter
his judgement; possessed of good reason is he,
to persons unknown from a monastery,
who imagine themselves highly superior because
they've never had sex and they claim to "believe" in a god,
and theology philosophy, whatever you'd name it,
is 'ofttimes the same in this manner of deragnement.

see: rochesters satire, as he said,'gainst mankind
if you're interested in more and if you have the time.

spelling is for the weak

>>21652793
ok fag

>>21652824
Oh, I see! You didn't read Neetzch
The world 'no exists' for there is a breach:
The hole in the Logos, some point to the heart
But souls of a dense prose can't fathom the spark
Illusions to live! Saying yass to the void
'Good reason'? You, sir, are no Aryan Goy!
I see through your ways with my penulian gland
Alas, the Divine dealt you a sorrowful hand
Illusions to live! I must not waste my time
The Mythical Mountain invites for a climb..

>>21652793
>i.e. you cannot do any better
Nigga you don't know where to stress a word and you bloat your lines with syllables for the sake of hitting the rhyme. I'm not here for a contest, I'm here to throw shit at you.

>>21652857
"the Mythical Mountain invites for a climb",
ah, on Sisyphus's road is where you're wasting your time,
you know, here in the material world we can build
anything we wish to surmount that small hill,
but even if you get to the top and per chance to look down,
you'll realize the material benefits all around
which are brought only to fruition by a knowledgeable hand
steered right by a mind not preoccupied with the grand
yet illusiary promises proliferated by those
whose vision is lacking beyond the tip of their nose,

why, is not the whole world and the ten thousand galaxies
not better fathomed by man and in his honest studies,
than by the false man who proclaims he has the answers
before undertaking any study at all, they are evidently mere chancers,
who are ignorant themselves and leverage themselves by a flaw
in the psyche of the unlearned to proclaim mere opinion 'gods law'?

>>21652880
>you bloat your lines with syllables for the sake of hitting the rhyme.
that's what you're suppose to do you fucking unread scrubber xD

>i'm here
You're hee because I disagreed with your opinion and rather than anwer or argue directly you're pulling down your trousers and screaming to obstruct the discussion, nothing more and nothing less,
love is the best,
see me in my vest,
my vest, my vest,
my fine gorrila vest,
there's no motion
in your ocean
'spite your catatonic potion
see your cock
it's falls off
from lack of use,
yes it's the truth,
la la la la something struth.

>>21650569
>We are as yet unredeemed Christkillers in the heart
Atonement obsession as against theosis and apophaticism. The former has yet to receive the good news. Maybe rolling with the unreconstructed Roman, rather than the bad faith and bad conscience Judea is preferable to neurotic self-crucifixion over nothing.

>>21650569
>>god is dead. God remains dead and we have killed him.

the amount of people who get filtered by this bit is insane.
Only things that were once alive can die, but God by definition is immortal, if he exists he exists for all time, if he doesn't exist he never did so. But saying God is Dead is taking immortality out of God, the same thing the christians did. Nietzsche is talking about the christian God, the God in religions, the faith in God has died not the idea of God. His shadow remains.

>>but, uh, there are still a lot of people who believe in god and we should crush them aswell because the enlightenment has made christianit obsolete.

Nietsche never wanted people to act violently, he never wanted to spark revolution or anything like that, he does not care what happens in the world, he is only interested in the soul.


>>also, the enlightenment is bad because it is just christianity again.
Never said that.

>>it would be better to commit suicide than live sickly.
Never said that. Nietzsche was against suicide, and if you had read even one book of Nietsche you would know that.

>>why? Because I said so! Stop reasoning with me!
Retard. Nietzsche never cared about justifying his reasoning. He contradicted himself all the time and for him that was the only way to stay honest. Those who don't contradict oneselves are the dishonest ones, because there is no ground to stand on, never.

>>21653005
>Never said that. Nietzsche was against suicide, and if you had read even one book of Nietsche you would know that.

Not the guy you are responding to but:

Twilight of the Idols, chapter Skirmishes of an Untimely Man, section 36 (from portable Nietzsche):

"Morality for physicians. - The sick man is a parasite of society. In a certain state it is indecent to live longer. To go on vegetating in cowardly dependence on physicians and machinations, after the meaning of life, the right to life, has been lost, that ought to prompt a profound contempt in society. The physicians, in turn, would have to be the mediators of this contempt—not prescriptions, but every day a new dose of nausea with their patients. To create a new responsibility, that of the physician, for all cases in which the highest interest of life, of ascending life, demands the most inconsiderate pushing down and aside of degenerating life—for example, for the right of procreation, for the right to be born, for the right to live.

To die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. Death freely chosen, death at the right time, brightly and cheerfully accomplished amid children and witnesses: then a real farewell is still possible, as the one who is taking leave is still there; also a real estimate of what one has achieved and what one has wished, drawing the sum of one’s life—all in opposition to the wretched and revolting comedy that Christianity has made of the hour of death. One should never forget that Christianity has exploited the weakness of the dying for a rape of the conscience; and the manner of death itself, for value judgments about man and the past..."

>>21651324
huh... someone on /lit/ who reads

>>21653100
to expand my point, I know that he is not advocating for
>muh, life is meaningless I should kill myself
but for the kind of suicide, the guy you were responding to was saying, that it's better to die on your own terms then to live as a living corpse.

>>21650569
this man was (a) culmination of the century of liberalism, his answer to immorality was "more power xD"

>>21653327
Except immorality was never a question for Nietzsche, why do you retards come to Nietzsche threads without reading him? Are you bored, stupid, newfag or all three?

>>21650569
>believing in god after the death of god
fucking fascists
kys OP

>>21651435
hahahahaha
oh, is this why i like nietzsche? i thought he was for pseuds!

>>21653649
>Except immorality was never a question for Nietzsche
He literally refers to himself as an immoralist numerous times throughout his works, most notably it happens constantly in the first third of Götzen-Dämmerung.

>>21653327
imagine being this mentally retarded. how do these idiots live with themselves?

>>21653695
So where's the question? He wasn't an immoralist like christcucks like to use that term nor how you implied it being a question for him. He was antimoralist, antirationalist, antimetaphysicist, but you clearly don't understand what it means for Nietzsche.

I have masturbated to books on more than one occasion.
One was the book “The Gas” a 70’s hippy book where a gas makes people fuck anything nearby, most recent was a book about a girl who drunkenly sucks 12 cocks on camera for a game in a nightclub and it’s posted online and she is humiliated for it.

>>21653327
People like you shriek and howl that we need to resuscitate Christianity to fight "degeneracy" and then giggle that Nietzsche was sickly while his philosophy valued power. And what do you value, bloated corpses?

tired of replying to retards who are hopelessly wrong like OP, so i'll focus on posters who are somewhat correct, but wrong in other areas

>>21651324
>He means that the will to truth that originated in Christianity and culminated in the enlightenment has made belief in God untenable, but all of our moral values, including truth, come from Christianity.
more precisely, it originated in Platonism, which is the metaphysical faith in truth that underpins all of philosophy that he saw, but Christianity and other life-denying religions and asceticism still inherited, which means all of modern morality.
>They think they can keep Christian morality without the Christian God, but N thinks they can't.
correct.
>Hence, in a world has Christian values but no Christian God, people are bound to become nihilistic.
wrong. they don't become nihilistic, they already are. Christianity is just an older nihilism, more naive. it looks down on the material to save the soul, has to turn a real some-thing into nothing (the body, the world), to make nothing into some-thing (the soul, the afterlife). the means are already nihilistic, modernity has just destroyed the ends (God) but is left with an already meaningless means (ascetic ideals, morality).
>N doesn't think the enlightenment made Christianity obsolete, he thinks the enlightenment is the natural outgrowth of Christian values
correct

>N thinks that instead of seeing suffering as bad, as Christianity nihilistically does, we should see suffering as natural and embrace it, and learn to take pride in the fact that we endure.
this is where you fall apart. Nietzsche has too many differing ways of looking at suffering to really sum up quickly, but this is an oversimplification, both of his stance towards suffering, and what he thinks Christianity makes of suffering

Christianity perverts suffering by hijacking it in a lens of sin, but it also elevates it, accepts it.
>"They are at one, the lot of them, in the cry and the impatience of pity, in their deadly hatred of suffering generally, in their almost feminine inability to remain spectators, to let someone suffer."
but then you also have
>"saying “the wretched alone are the good; the poor, impotent, lowly alone are the good; the suffering, deprived, sick, ugly alone are pious, alone are blessed by God"

in praise of suffering:
>"You want, if possible—and there is no more insane “if possible”—to abolish suffering. And we? It really seems that we would rather have it higher and worse than ever."

against being one who suffers:
>"What belongs to greatness.—Who will attain anything great if he does not possess the strength and the will to inflict great suffering? Being able to suffer is the least thing: weak women and even slaves often attain mastery in that. But not to perish of inner distress and uncertainty when one inflicts great suffering...that is great, that belongs to greatness."

you read him, yes. but you need to read more closely.

>>21651499
wrong, but the way a midwit is wrong. some Nietzsche fanboy rubbed you the wrong way early on and you never let it go ever since. >>21651499 did an excellent job of rebutting you in so few words.
>Any objection or reference to rationality or reason is always already pre-determined to be contaminated by will to power, ressentiment, slave morality and so forth
if you bothered to read the times he does discuss reason and rationality, they are written in the format you're crying for. Gay Science, Beyond Good and Evil, and Twilight of the Idols have sections discussing these in more lucid style.
>Not surprisingly, his most ardent supporters are mediocre minds who cannot make their way out of the maze he constructed.
other way around. he is the best midwit filter i've seen by far. he caught you, after all. he does however attract the best and the worst, so if you've been spending too much time arguing with "Nietzscheans" it's probably idiots who can only spout will to power.

>Of course his vulgar perspectivism is self-refuting but to point this out, to even think in this way, to think by a "standard of truth", already proves will to power correct again you see, since what is truth but a disguise for will to power?
by far my favorite of your post. delicious. a "standard of truth" you say? his was certainly higher than yours. the intellectual conscience bar none.

>>21652609
Just because certain values are emphasized in Christianity doesnt mean Christianity created those values.