/lit/ - Literature

Why did we abandon metre? It's what makes poetry fun to read. I'm not against free verse in principle, what I don't understand is why it is *the* dominant form of poetry now.

>>21894496
using metre became fascist already. get over it chud

>>21894513
but free verse was invented by the fascist anti-semites Pound and Eliot..

>>21894496
The same reason 'avant guarde' architecture became the norm. Despite harmony being the true norm for all arts.

>>21894496
Because abandoning meter allows untalented degenerates to masquerade as poets.

it's not free verse that's the problem, it's the total abandonment of rhythm

Or, even better, sing them. Common speech
Held all the rhythmic measures that he prized
In poetry. He had much more to teach,
But first he taught that. Several poets paid
Him heed. The odd one even made the grade,
Building a pretty castle on the beach.

But on the whole it’s useless to point out
That making the thing musical is part
Of pinning down what you are on about.
The voice leads to the craft, the craft to art:
All this is patent to the gifted few
Who know, before they can, what they must do
To make the mind a spokesman for the heart.

As for the million others, they are blessed:
This is their age. Their slapdash in demand
From all who would take fright were thought expressed
In ways that showed a hint of being planned,
They may say anything, in any way.
Why not? Why shouldn’t they? Why wouldn’t they?
Nothing to study, nothing to understand.

And yet it could be that their flight from rhyme
And reason is a technically precise
Response to the confusion of a time
When nothing, said once, merits hearing twice.
It isn’t that their deafness fails to match
The chaos. It’s the only thing they catch.
No form, no pattern. Just the rolling dice

Of idle talk. Always a blight before,
It finds a place today, fulfills a need:
As those who cannot write increase the store
Of verses fit for those who cannot read,
For those who can do both the field is clear
To meet and trade their wares, the only fear
That mutual benefit might look like greed.

It isn’t, though. It’s just the interchange
Of showpiece and attention that has been
There since the cavemen took pains to arrange
Pictures of deer and bison to be seen
To best advantage in the flickering light.
Our luck is to sell tickets on the night
Only to those who might know what we mean,

And they are drawn to us by love of sound.
In the first instance, it is how we sing
That brings them in. No mystery more profound
Than how a melody soars from a string
Of syllables, and yet this much we know:
Ronsard was right to emphasize it so,
Even in his day. Now, it’s everything:

The language falls apart before our eyes,
But what it once was echoes in our ears
As poetry, whose gathered force defies
Even the drift of our declining years.
A single lilting line, a single turn
Of phrase: these always proved, at last we learn,
Life cries for joy though it must end in tears.

>>21894560

fuck missed the first line. it's:

Recite your lines aloud, Ronsard advised,

>>21894496
Free verse does not require talent
So YOU can write
Shitty poems like this
And nobody can criticise you for it
fuck grammar while were at it too
imperialist invention
writing metre and stresses is hard
so ill do whats easy

>>21894490
Well they had commonplace political tripe read at Bidens inauguration, as with all culture poetry has reduced to holding correct opinions, there's no demand for quality so no supply

>>21894496
requires effort.

I can trace out a short history that results in writing like this OP, if desired, but In any case finding contemporary poets who are good is difficult but not impossible, you need simply understand your taste and follow the stream of poets influencing each other.

So for example, I like Clark Ashton smith and Edmund Spenser, Donald Sidney fryer is still alive and takes much from both and is a formalist, here’s an example of his verse.

No more, no less than Plato's quaint conceit, –
Atlantis, – more than myth, this memory
Of a paradise we may once more complete,
This image of an island empery
Supreme in wealth, extent, antiquity, –
Has now become my own arcanic lore,
But more, a torch deep in eternity,
A symbol for all splendor lost, and more,
A sign for all of loveliness evanished evermore. . . .

Forevermore? Perhaps there shall rise yet in far-off time,–
Beyond this bleak, blind interim of now and nevermore,–
Many a new Atlantis form "the cosmic sea sublime". . . .

And there, perhaps, in future gardens marvellous and vast,
Shall bloom again all splendor and all beauty lost and past.

>>21894995

this is really nice. thank you

>>21894995

are there any publications you believe consistently put out good poetry? there is so much trash even in the venerated ones, I have no idea where to look

>>21894496
the world wars killed the concept of beauty, nowadays our society is too nihilistic and cynical and deconstructed to consider beauty and measure and form to be good or worth striving for

>>21895035
Ye love shilling good stuff

>>21895037
Sadly no, though I’ve found a trick that consistently works pretty well. There are many bibliophile book collectors/book dealers which you can find online, on YouTube and other such, and this literary obsession forces them to be highly studied in older lit which results in higher quality output, so for example reggie Oliver, mark valentine and R.B Russell consistently put out decent work due to their dedication to literary history. In this same way if you find publishers dedicated to things like decadent lit, romanticism and so forth, there’s a higher chance they’ll be decent.

But really, even these are no promises and the best way is just finding threads of influence, for example here’s a poem by DM black who I found out about due to him being influenced by Swinburne, even if it has more modernist elements, it still is pretty decent.

The happy crow

If a crow were to find the brawny carcase
of an elephant killed by tumbling in the
pride of life from a cliff above the Ganges;
and that carcase were floating down the flooded
stately river among its mango trees and
jewelled peacocks, the season being Springtime;
and that crow were to think (preening himself de-
liciously!), What a pretty trip I have be-
fore me!, perching then blithely upon the carcase;
and were thereon for days and weeks and even
months to gorge on that quite unwarranted stack of
blood-stained flesh as the powerful Ganges bore it
on among those delights; and if that crow were
to be carried, intoxicated, final-
ly – head bursting, heart roaring, beak still at its
wrenching and swallowing – out to sea, and then still
farther, far out to sea, to where the skyline
is sea only; and if that crow, marooned on that
stinking flies'-nest of bones and sinews (now more than
half awash, and in sight of sinking), were at
length devoured by the great fish Timitimingala –
that, O King, said the Sage, would be much like the
fate of him that pursues the loves of this world.

>>21894490
idpol is cancer infecting far more than poetry

>>21894496
many reasons
>metre and rhyme are often used poorly by amateur poets
>poetry is often portrayed as merely expressive, with almost no boundaries on what is and isn't poetry
>many poets in the 19th and 20th century were pushing the boundaries of poetry... they might have known the rules they were breaking but today's poets only know a world where every rule has been broken and all constraints are unnecessary or bad (not true, creativity can only exist within constraints)
>internet makes people feel like experts or practitioners despite knowing little or nothing, and spending no time studying topics and disciplines such as poetry
>envy - attacking or eschewing the tools and techniques of celebrated poets from the past is a way to differentiate present day poets and poetry
>increasing cultural scepticism toward individual artistic greatness, resulting in celebration of mediocrity
>bad poetry is more visible than it ever has been, so we see a lot of bad poetry from the 2000s, whereas we see mostly the best stuff from history
>fewer intelligent and talented people are pursuing poetry because there are limited opportunities and causes in it

>>21895188
You should take a look at Michael C. Ford's ''Polluting the Poetry Pool''.

>>21894559
>it's not free verse that's the problem, it's the total abandonment of rhythm
/thread
Finally, a wise man.

>>21894553
>Because abandoning meter allows untalented degenerates to masquerade as poets.
True.

>>21894604
Poetry is when you press enter in the middle of a sentence.

>>21894559
>>21895245
I think that people today aren't capable of detecting rhythm. What little rhythm is in use almost universally falls under it's most regressive form in the beat. Popular music is either a repetitive beat in rap, or repetitive cutesy melodies in pop songs, there's no progression. Show someone young today a proper, rhythmically complex song compared to whatever has topped recent charts, and they wouldn't be able to tell the difference, or at least express their detection of a difference. And then, if they're unable to do even that, then how they can they appreciate, let alone compose poetry?

>>21895326
>I think that people today aren't capable of detecting rhythm.

This was exactly the case for me until I was about 27. Poetic rhythm and the ability to feel it is something I do not believe can really be taught explicitly, you cannot learn a set of rules or guides as to what you ought to be perceiving, it has to just come naturally, and until it does, you must wait.

>>21894995
How do I start the path of becoming a poetry sperg like you
Everytime I've asked elsewhere I've gotten noncommittal "read poets", which I've done and still don't at all understand poetry

>>21894995
>I can trace out a short history that results in writing like this OP, if desired
Do it

>>21895459
Just reading poets is definitely way to vague, what should be done is first getting an anthology of poetry like Norton and while reading through it, you’ll notice time periods and movements which catch your interest/taste the most, only once you get an idea for what your tastes are can you then investigate those movements by looking into related poets, the philosophers and aesthetic writings they subscribe to and so forth. So for example say you like Edgar Allen Poe, then reading his work philosophy of composition where he explains how and why he writes down to the last mechanical detail, and his essay on how to write verse would be logical to read, as well as the symbolist and decadent poets which derive from him, which have many aestheticism writings like remy du gourmont’s work.

However this is very specific, there are good works to read which teach the meat of poetry, like fusell’s poetic meter and form is explicitly written for the poetry reader trying to learn how to appreciate poetry; Hollander’s poetic meter and form is also good, beyond these two and the obvious “read widely” and “contemplate” another recommendation I have would be to eventually study works on rhetoric for among the ancients, poetry, prose and rhetoric weren’t that divided. Which works to read? Cicero, Quintilian‘a oratoria, Erasmus’ work “copia” Aristotle’s poetics and Horace’s work on poetics are all good options.

>>21895478
Next post I’ll begin.

>>21895478
Eh was gonna post it in full here, but its length would overwhelm the thread, instead here, it’s a Pastebin connected too a similar Pastebin site, Pastebin itself not allowing it due to certain words, 4chan assuming it is spam if I link directly.

In it I trace a history of contemporary verse through Elizabethan as a bridge and do a paragone between this Elizabethan verse in opposition on to rap (which I know, sounds like an absurd comparison ) but it’s logical in the context of the criterion defined, examples given and history traced.

https://pastebin.com/EAyBakjG

>>21895577
Thanks bro

>Writing poetry in strict meter is as if you were traversing a tightrope across two large buildings: one misstep and the entire enterprise is finished; one misplaced syllable disfigures the entire poem.
>Should you succeed, you have more than proven to be granted the laurels of Apollo; should you fail, you will be the laughingstock of every Parisian salon.
>Only those without talent write unmetered poetry. I have long since realized my inadequate poetical faculties which is why I write my literary work in prose.

>>21896444
>jew telling whites how to write
Tiring

>>21896554
Based Jews demolishing "poets" who write free "verse"

>>21894496
High barriers to entry are not profitable for the education of poets or the selling of their works. All barriers must be destroyed to maximize profitability.

The role of college is to make money, not to educate. High standards means kicking people out, which means not maximizing profit. If there are no real rigorous standards, they can push any retard through a 8 years of college at the cost of $10,000+ a semester or more (retards will pay for this by taking out federal loans, then vote to get the loan forgiven, but that's another issue).
Next, Rupi Kaur has sold more than 8 million books. The average retard is more likely to buy her kind of poetry book than something written in iambic pentameter or some other type of meter that they don't understand because they're high school English teacher failed to teach them what it was (if they even attempt to teach at all anymore).

>>21896585
Eliot is the best poet of the 20th century

brown
a stain
on my skin
on my soul
or
in my pants
?

>>21896600
Whether you rhymed or not would have no impact because you have no poetic talent to begin with.

>>21896600
on my country

>>21896599
Actually, that's Yeats.

>>21896790
Have you read AE Russell? Russell is what I thought yeats was gonna be, before I read yeats.

>>21896800
No, I haven't. Where should I start?

>>21896806
Imagination and reveries or the nuts of knowledge are both good, here’s two of his verses. (Btw, Him and yeats were close friends, Russell doesn’t get much praise today but he actually funded and supported a lot of Irish writers and so forth.)

Poem 1

KRISHNA

'I am Beauty itself among beautiful things.'
Bhagavad-Gita
The East was crowned with snow-cold bloom
And hung with veils of pearly fleece:
They died away into the gloom,
Vistas of peace—and deeper peace.
And earth and air and wave and fire
In awe and breathless silence stood;
For One who passed into their choir
Linked them in mystic brotherhood.
Twilight of amethyst, amid
Thy few strange stars that lit the heights,
Where was the secret spirit hid?
Where was Thy place, O Light of Lights?
[19]
The flame of Beauty far in space—
Where rose the fire: in thee? in me?
Which bowed the elemental race
To adoration silently?

Poem 2

BY THE MARGIN OF THE GREAT DEEP

When the breath of twilight blows to flame the misty skies,
All its vaporous sapphire, violet glow, and silver gleam,
With their magic flood me through the gateway of the eyes;
I am one with the twilight's dream.
[27]
When the trees and skies and fields are one in dusky mood,
Every heart of man is wrapt within the mother's breast:
Full of peace and sleep and dreams in the vasty quietude,
I am one with their hearts at rest.
From our immemorial joys of hearth and home and love
Strayed away along the margin of the unknown tide,
All its reach of soundless calm can thrill me far above
Word or touch from the lips beside.
Aye, and deep and deep and deeper let me drink and draw,
From the olden fountain more than light or peace or dream,
Such primeval being as o'erfills the heart with awe,
Growing one with its silent stream.

>>21894496
no discipline
and the meme belief that it simply holds back the thoughts you're expressing

>>21895196
Is this just a track on an album? I literally can't find anything else about it. No poem online, no track on spotify, nothing on youtube.

https://youtu.be/A5LiHj2UGgA

>>21894496
imagine a soccer player who picks up the ball with his hands, runs to the other side, whips out a gun, shoots the goalie, and throws the ball, and wins every game with 20+ goals. does he have the right to call himself one of the greatest to ever play soccer?

What’s the best free verse poem?

>>21894516
you know that isn't true

>>21894496
It's an American fad. Even in other Anglosphere countries the abandonment of meter isn't as total.

>>21896599
This. Nothing wrong with free verse.

>>21894490
I dont trust poetry MFAs, I met one once and they were an insufferable narc, huge snob. I read their poems and it was complete garbage, no talent whatsoever. I've read some lit and creative writing majors work before and I'll go "yeah that's pretty good" then I read a poetry MFA and it's always genuinly bad, idk wtf they're teaching these people.

>>21894553
This genuinely, I believe.

>>21898063
>not a single woman in a list of 16 people

>>21898218
that's how you know it's a good list

>>21898381
You need to go back to /pol/

>>21897110
>does he have the right to call himself one of the greatest to ever play soccer?
Who's going to disagree with him? He's got a gun!

>>21894490
I've never been impressed by anything written by an MFA. Ever. MFAs were the worst thing to ever happen to literature.

>>21898534
you need to go back to r3ddit

>>21898218
Good

>>21898554
There's nothing reddit about not being a male chauvinist pig.

>>21899255
>while I was still searching but not finding— I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all.

This is king Solomon btw.

>>21899255
>>21898534
>>21898218
Bait

>>21898546
I think it’s because they’re writing for the current market according to the current market. It’s making them cookie cutter and the shape of that cookie cutter is specifically a kind of styleless prose+verse, that sells based on race, gender, sexuality, nationality or appealing to popular genre like autofiction.

In that kind of environment, I don’t think you can get a really different flavor from these.

>>21899262
Yeah, ancient Israelite culture was very patriarchal.

>>21899502
you're probably very conflicted over jk rowling being transphobic, aren't you.

>>21894559
>>21895326
isn't rythm uncommon in some languages? I'm French and I've never heard of rythm in french poetry, at least not to the extent it exists in english. I don't think the issue is that i can't feel it, because i can definetly feel rythm in english poetry

>>21898141
Writing poetry, like everything else now, is something that’s wrapped up in a neat little package and sold off to buyers. Want to publish? Pay for it. This is modern life.

>>21899279
MFAs don’t change anything about a poet’s poetry. An MFA is merely an admission ticket to getting your poetry out there and published.

>>21899715
Different languages operate differently, you can’t really do the accentual patterning in French due to the stresses of syllables being so similar, though systems do exist to attempt it anyways.

Even if you cannot “feel” rhythm you can still scan the literal rhythm in a line which is all that meter promises to help with, control of rhythmical pattern, there are other elements which modify how things are said which are likewise ignored in much contemporary verse, for example line length, where and how often commas are placed can totally produce differing rhythms, patterning of assonance and alliteration, parallelism, repetition, all manner of rhetorical figures and so forth.

No matter the language you choose these broader tools of language control can be found regardless of the normal rhythmical pattern.

For example Since you speak French, here’s two verses which will demonstrate these “broader” controls which clearly differentiate prose from verse.

À Albert Dürer By Victor Hugo

Dans les vieilles forêts où la sève à grands flots
Court du fût noir de l’aulne au tronc blanc des bouleaux,
Bien des fois, n’est-ce pas ? à travers la clairière,
Pâle, effaré, n’osant regarder en arrière,
Tu t’es hâté, tremblant et d’un pas convulsif,
Ô mon maître Albert Dure, ô vieux peintre pensif !

Cont

>>21899866
On devine, devant tes tableaux qu’on vénère,
Que dans les noirs taillis ton œil visionnaire
Voyait distinctement, par l’ombre recouverts,
Le faune aux doigts palmés, le sylvain aux yeux verts,
Pan, qui revêt de fleurs l’antre où tu te recueilles,
Et l’antique dryade aux mains pleines de feuilles.

Une forêt pour toi, c’est un monde hideux.
Le songe et le réel s’y mêlent tous les deux.
Là se penchent rêveurs les vieux pins, les grands ormes
Dont les rameaux tordus font cent coudes difformes,
Et dans ce groupe sombre agité par le vent,
Rien n’est tout à fait mort ni tout à fait vivant.
Le cresson boit ; l’eau court ; les frênes sur les pentes,
Sous la broussaille horrible et les ronces grimpantes,
Contractent lentement leurs pieds noueux et noirs.
Les fleurs au cou de cygne ont les lacs pour miroirs ;
Et sur vous qui passez et l’avez réveillée,
Mainte chimère étrange à la gorge écaillée,
D’un arbre entre ses doigts serrant les larges nœuds,
Du fond d’un antre obscur fixe un œil lumineux.
Ô végétation ! esprit ! matière ! force !
Couverte de peau rude ou de vivante écorce !

Aux bois, ainsi que toi, je n’ai jamais erré,
Maître, sans qu’en mon cœur l’horreur ait pénétré,
Sans voir tressaillir l’herbe, et, par le vent bercées,
Pendre à tous les rameaux de confuses pensées.
Dieu seul, ce grand témoin des faits mystérieux,
Dieu seul le sait, souvent, en de sauvages lieux,
J’ai senti, moi qu’échauffe une secrète flamme,
Comme moi palpiter et vivre avec une âme,
Et rire, et se parler dans l’ombre à demi-voix,
Les chênes monstrueux qui remplissent les bois


Also see this poem by mallarme

Apparition by mallarme

La lune s’attristait. Des séraphins en pleurs
Rêvant, l’archet aux doigts, dans le calme des fleurs
Vaporeuses, tiraient de mourantes violes
De blancs sanglots glissant sur l’azur des corolles.
—C’était le jour béni de ton premier baiser.
Ma songerie aimant à me martyriser
S’enivrait savamment du parfum de tristesse
Que même sans regret et sans déboire laisse
La cueillaison d’un Rêve au cœur qui l’a cueilli.
J’errais donc, l’œil rivé sur le pavé vieilli,
Quand avec du soleil aux cheveux, dans la rue
Et dans le soir, tu m’es en riant apparue
Et j’ai cru voir la fée au chapeau de clarté
Qui jadis sur mes beaux sommeils d’enfant gâté
Passait, laissant toujours de ses mains mal fermées
Neiger de blancs bouquets d’étoiles parfumées.

>>21894490
I'll write you a poem
Yet I have no degree
Well an associate's actually but that shit was free
It'll rhyme for the most part
Maybe beat to a drum
But I doubt it will say much as I am quite dumb
I am no Dickinson, Shelley, or Keats
Simply a humble servant of those bearing teats
Or particularly immaculate feets
For these fair ladies I have no shortage of seats

>>21896444
>Only those without talent write unmetered poetry.
I think there is some leeway with this assessment. If you have proven yourself as a metrical virtuoso such as Baudelaire, you can abandon meter to try something out like he did in his prose poems. Unfortunately, a lot of people lack metrical talent/knowledge and skip straight to writing free verse. Picasso, for example, has proven he had undeniable mastery over the technical aspects of painting and went on to paint stuff that looks like a 5 year old could do it. Nevertheless, in the same way, retards of today who go straight to painting 5 year old like sketches, without undergoing the training or displaying their mastery of the fundamentals of paintings, are frauds.

>>21899866
I see, thanks anon. But surely these broader controls also exist in modern free verse poetry right? stuff like cesure a l'hemistiche isn't particularly complex or technical, it's pretty intuitive. so saying that the problem with contemporary poetry is its rythmic poverty like this anon said >>21894559 kinda implies french poetry in its entirety is terrible.

>>21899647
Not really? I think she's an asshole but her books are still pretty good (though I won't give her another penny).

>>21899715
Doesn't French not have phonemic stress?

>>21899715
>I'm French but French doesn't have rhythm
>ChatGPT what is accent tonique
>French has a word stress that follows a particular pattern, or rhythm, with the last syllable of words at the end of rhythmic groups (or regular phrases) being stressed.

>>21894496
Whitman buck broke his nation's concept of poetry.

>>21899740
I guess, but creative writing MFAs seem to actually make decent stuff. Idk what the difference is

>>21895326
>>21894490
>>21894496

As much as /pol/tards will deny it, rap is filled with complex, rhythmic language. You can debate the merits of particular songs and lyrics, but prosody in rap is well-developed. I'm pretty sure this is where many people are fulfilling their desire for expressive, rhythmic language today, and that's fine. Oral traditions in poetry are very old, and it's not a bad thing that they're becoming popular again. I should add that it's not just rap—you can see the same thing in plenty of other genres—but that seems to be where it's popular in this decade. Here's Northrop Frye on the topic:

I think that in our day the communications gap between seriousness and lightness is breaking down… And I found in my teaching of literature that a person who knows folk singers like Bob Dylan or the Mothers of Invention has far less difficulty with symbols in poetry. Twenty years ago you had to teach students the language of symbolism which they often just refused to learn. Nowadays young people know that language.

>>21895066
This is largely true.

>>21901912
>>21901587

i didn't say french doesn't have syllable stress, I'm saying french poetry doesn't have a rythmic structure. there is no concept of the iamb in french, verses are determined by length (syllables, not amount of stresses) and maybe by what >>21899866 called 'broader controls of rythm' which is basically just separating a line into parts of equal syllables. in both cases, stress doesn't play a part, french poetry only plays with the quantity of syllables.

>>21894490
>beartard is a /lit/fag

I don't think this board is capable of producing better poetry.

>>21902599

i was originally a litfag, then i went to biz and made and lost about a million bucks lmao, so now I'm forced to be a litfag again, only now as a bobo

>>21902154
No it's not. Rap is often nothing more than a repetitive beat; it is a literal regression in form, style, and content to their most primitive essence, a clear example of the sorry state of music today. The beats may be nice, true, but to call it complex and rhythmic is pure sophistry.

>>21902550
Anglo-Saxon poetry originally didn't have podic structure either, and only stresses, not syllables, were counted. Modern English poetry has largely been a merger between stressed and syllabic styles. I'm no Old English scholar so I won't go into detail here, but I imagine that the "Rhythm" in French poetry is something similar.

>The very nature of Old English metre is often misjudged. In it there is no single rhythmic pattern progressing from the beginning of a line to the end, and repeated with variation in other lines. The lines do not go according to a tune. They are founded on a balance; an opposition between two halves of roughly equivalent phonetic weight, and significant content, which are more often rhythmically contrasted than similar. They are more like masonry than music.

t.Tolkien

>>21902880

>nothing more than a repetitive beat

you mean like iambic pentameter?

>>21902880
>but I imagine that the "Rhythm" in French poetry is something similar
French is the opposite: only syllables, not stresses are counted. as far as i know, stresses do not play any role in french poetry.

>>21902599
>I don't think this board is capable of producing better poetry.
OH WOW WHAT A PROFOUND REBUTTAL. AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD CAN'T WRITE POETRY AS GOOD AS ACTUAL POETS - PEOPLE WHO GET PAYED TO WRITE POETRY AND STUDIED AT A SHIT COLLEGE FOR 7 YEARS. HOW WILL THE WORLD OF CRITIQUE EVER RECOVER FROM YOUR SCATHING OBJECTION?
you are the king of the midwits

>>21903152
>PAYED

>>21903154
>t. too afraid to ignore the standardisation of english spelling
ngmi. the 17th century was when the english language became artistically bankrupt

>>21902880
Sure, most rap isn't that good, but the same goes for any medium or genre. The best exemplars of it still do some pretty complex, impressive things.

>>21896600
A stain on my skin,
It blemishes my soul.
Disgusting brown color.
I shit a pair of britches.

you couldn't take 2 minutes to at least write your garbage in a nicer way?
t. esl