/lit/ - Literature

>>22018337
sweet jesus on the cross, look at that painting! isn't art just...enough?

Yes, art sure is incredible.
Imagine how much effort it took to paint all this detail.

>>22018440
ai art is evil

Do you anons have a problem where your prose style doesn't match the content you want to write about? What do you do in that case? Scrap or change the idea, or "break" your style purposefully?

>>22018531
Is this the first time in your life you've believed in good and evil, you arrogant atheist?
And if you really think it's evil...it must hurt you inside, knowing that it's literally impossible to go back to the way things were.

>>22018337
Thank you anon. Let's make this thread a good one

I need some advice, i would like to publish my current WIP traditionally once I'm done with it, but I'm concerned about wordcount. I'm unfortunately an overwriter, and though I would like to remain in the 120-130k words range i might very well reach 150k
Do you think that would be a deal breaker as a debut novel?

Editorchad is free for the next two weeks if anyone wants me to punch up his or her book

>as she lied down in defeat
should it be "as she lay down in defeat"?
I still get caught up on lay/lie

>>22018761
verb is to lie, it's lay down

>>22018761
I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't figure this out.

>>22018737
what stuff have you even edited

>>22018778
is there a book for this shit? and wtf is the book "the trivium" for? someone help me understand this grammar and sheeiiit

>>22018783
so far, erotic fanfics. nothin' fancy

>>22018799
has anyone here hired you or used your services?

>>22018793
I only know "the elements of style"

>>22018783
Edited the upcoming Cold War novel "The Nuclear Snafu," punched up the jokes in "If You Give a Gay Their Way," rewrites for the Heavenly Body series, various short stories and novellas, even did some work for Sange who browses /lit/. He's a good guy. Like I said, I'm undercutting the market on purpose to farm positive reviews, so if you're strapped, I'll help for cheap. I can send writing samples if you're interested

>>22018799
>erotic fanfics
I love writing erotica but is pretty boring in the sex because I naturally write the same fetish shit in it. It's far more interesting to figure out why the evil monster would want a dicking from a human.

>>22018735
I'm in the same boat, but at 113K(cut down from 115K). Depends on the genre/age demographic you're writing, though, from the research I've done, anything over 100K has become a risk for a debut post-covid thanks to paper shortages and an increase in queries. You get a bit more leeway if you're writing epic fantasy, up to around 120K. There are outliers who squeak through regardless and others who query lower, then get to add to the word count in the editing stage, but consensus seems to be the closer you can get to 100K or less the better.

>>22018802
>>22018807
I'm not that guy anon, sorry, I wish I was a editor or write, I would've helped all of you my frens but I'm just a reader. you will make it anon, don't give up

>>22018818
sorry fren, I was just trolling

>>22018802
yeah I punched up some short stories from /lit/, I remember doing Coach from Balls Above the World or whatever it was. Some other stuff too

>>22018834
sange's work? kek
did he ever finish it that you know of

>>22018832
what kind of trolling is even that?

>>22018581
practice different styles. if you remain stuck in one style forever you'll never grow as an artist

>>22018761
>>22018793
Use a dictionary. I have duckduckgo as my default search engine just so I can type in "!wt lay" and end up at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lay very quickly.
English -> Etymology 1 and Etymology 4 are the ones you need to resolve your confusion.

First one:
>(transitive) To place down in a position of rest, or in a horizontal position.
>example: to lay a book on the table
So to put something down. It says it's transitive, so you do it to something or someone. Not what you want.

Second one:
>simple past tense of lie when pertaining to position.
>example: The baby lay in its crib and slept silently.
This is when you do it yourself, in the past tense. So if your story is in the past tense then "lay" is correct. (If it's present tense you want "lies".)

>>22018822
I'm fucked because there is no chance I can get that low, not even with substantial editing
I hope the situation in my country is better but I somehow doubt it
Hopefully I can find a good agent or something

>>22018840
I don't think he finished it, but I remember we made Coach really cool

>>22018854
Thanks. I understood the difference between "lay" and "lie" but I get hung up on irregular forms between the two.

>>22018761
>I still get caught up on lay/lie

Because lay, besides taking a noun, is also past tense of lie.

Just rmember that if you used "lied" (with a d) it's never correct unless you are talking about prevarication. "He lied to her."

>>22018337

Feel free to not believe me, fake and gay and all of that, but I'm a long-term lurker and occasional poster and need some advice.

I write in two genres - technothriller (think Michael Crichton or Clive Cussler) and hard-ish sci-fi, and have been doing it on and off for the last 10ish years. I've got one technothriller novel and two sci-fi novels drafted, and I'm working on the sequel to my technothriller at the moment.

I had originally planned on trad-publishing, but given how much of a disaster it is at the moment I've been leaning towards self-pub. However, I decided to query a small number of agents - the only ones I'd actually want to work with - on a whim with my technothriller, which is my most commercial book and...I've gotten two full requests and a personalized rejection in just a few weeks of querying.

I've sent the two interested agents my full MS but...what do I do now? Do I stop writing the sequel and see what they think before I continue? Am I going to have to abandon my science fiction if I somehow get picked up for my technothrillers? Could I still self-publish them if I'm traditionally publishing in a different genre? Am I overthinking it?

Thanks frens

>>22018581
Make a few changes so that the reader understands it as purposeful. You play to your weaknesses during training, not during performance.

>>22018854
this is very helpful anon, thanks

>>22018814
i guess i can hire your service if youre doing it for free. i dont really have any big money to spend since all my funds go into my living expenses. what do i need to contact you on?

>>22018872
There is no manuscript that is not salable. Pay someone to punch it up until you can get it traditionally published

>>22018883
try maat042@yahoo.com

>have at least four different writing projects going
>can't decide which one to focus on so came here to shitpost
feelsbadman

>>22018899
That just means you don‘t actually like any of them. Discard and start something new.

>>22018899
That just means you have to force yourself through the hard part or need to think of a different approach. Might need to speed/skim over a portion and keep chugging. Don't abandon projects.

>>22018761
Lay down sounds more feminine and nicerer anyway anon, use that

Fuck it I'm rolling for which project I'm gonna focus on to completion
1-3 - novella
4-6 - short
7-9 - screenplay
0 - fuck it, I'll do it later

>>22018930
well shit

>>22018920
based and "it just sounds better" pilled

>>22018899
Same, anon. I write with heated obsession but I usually jump to the next thing as soon as I get the draft down because editing is "not fun". I'm trying to set a deadline for my projects so I can actually focus but I don't know where to direct this fervent energy - it's totally different from the cool calculation I require during the editing process. I'm starting to think I have bipolar mania kek. Finishing things feels so good though and I really want to.
>>22018903
Not true, I wouldn't think about things for years if I didn't actually like them. Some of us just have focus issues

>>22018848
sorry

hey /wg/, /lit/izen here. I've never paid attention to this thread but after lurking for few days, you people seem a little bit saner than average lit user. I will lurk moar and will be paying attention to this thread. thank you

>>22018581
I have the opposite problem. I'm doing a ye olde timey story, but I wrote the characters to talk "normally" (in the sense that they're readily intelligible by a 21st century reader, not that they use the exact same language as us) because characterization is more important to me than immersing readers with period-accurate dialog. So I've decided to make the prose itself antiquated to compensate.
Is this liable to being grating to readers and contrast badly with the straightforward dialog? Or is this a relatively common thing?

>>22019029
How olde timey are we talking and how would it get in the way?
Modern dialogue with old-fashioned narration seems like it would be jarring, even more so than the reverse. But I'm not sure.
Do you have a sample you can show?

>>22019029
>Is this liable to being grating to readers and contrast badly with the straightforward dialog? Or is this a relatively common thing?
You should write to please one person

>>22018851
for thousands of years authors wrote in exactly one style their whole life and just honed it over time. Trying to master multiple styles is a gay post-modern thing.

>>22018337
Stopping by to say that Impressionism is the most aesthetically beautiful of all artistic movements.

>>22019068
"jack of all trades, master of none" it's a saying for a reason

>>22019053
>How olde timey are we talking
not that extreme. I've read a lot of court cases from the late 1800s in America which have a really unique style that I wanted to emulate. It has a kind of antiquated charm often mixed with compelling narration, but no artistic pretentions. One of my favorite lines is from a cardozo case
>The defendant asks us to hold that, by the acceptance of incompetent evidence, the scales were weighted to his prejudice and in the end to his undoing.
My prose is a little bit more flowery than that because I'm not writing for lay parties to a lawsuit, but its in that kind of ballpark.
>>22019058
My work is pleasing to myself, but I'm also an autistic weirdo, so what's pleasing to me might not always be pleasing to others, and my ultimate goal is to please other people with entertaining stories as well as myself.

I can't do it I'm stuck I'm stuck I'm stuck I can't write there are no ideas, I need to get from a to c but b doesn't exist I'm stuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

>>22019112
What‘s a and c? Maybe anon knows what‘s b.

>>22018737
Not my whole book but you want to look at my first chapter?

>>22019068
>>22019078
>Trying to master multiple styles
>the post says practice
the bar for reading comprehension in this thread is on the floor

>>22019124
yeah, email me >>22018897

>>22018856
Man, same. I think 110K is within reach, but 100K seems impossible without butchering the story or ending on a cliffhanger, which is a big no-no for a debut. What I hear a lot of writers with this problem do is they write a shorter book to get their foot in the door, then once they have their agent, start trying to publish the second one. It sucks, but I may end up going that route.

I don't think you understand.

>>22019320
See there's an issue for me there
I already did that. I wrote a 200K words novel I edited multiple times, and decided to write something shorter as a debut
And still I'm defintely going above 100K
I just can't do simple short stories, I have to make them complicated

I want to write a story about a guy from a iron age society getting lost in the woods, where everything starts off mostly grounded and sort of ambiguously spooky, but as he gets more lost he encounters more supernatural shit until eventually hes basically in a fever dream of colors and monsters and can't tell what's real or fake.
But I'm having trouble making the protagonist interesting and giving him a deeper motive than getting out of the woods. I was thinking about making him a soldier that ran away from his duties and is metaphorically confronting his demons and fear of the unknown in the forest. What do you guys think?

Waifufag readers and writers, what's the better option?

-Writing a female main character
-Writing a male character with a female love interest/co-protagonist

>>22019425
Sounds like something I'd read. One way to approach stories is a a sequence of "games" and a list of possible difficulties ("pains"). One game you can play is "opposites". Take one element of the story and figure out its opposite, then put them together. E.g one obvious one that is already there is the combination of natural (the forest, the woods) with the supernatural (monsters, visions, etc.). Your protagonist is a deserter which suggests cowardice so you could combine with its opposite: bravery. Maybe he ran away because he was actually too good of a soldier and became exhausted by his own valor and the responsibility that comes with it.

As for pains, since most of the elements of this story are commonplace, even in combination, the biggest pain will be to make the forest and the supernatural elements fresh and interesting. If you can come up with something no one has seen before (generally by combining different things together or taking inspiration from obscure sources or both) then the story will work.

>>22019462
Go away dude, we hate you

>>22019481
t. hasn't written anything this whole year.

>>22019425
do you actually plan to make the things he encounters be based on IRL iron age beliefs and superstitions or is just "lowtech man sees fantasy monsters"?
If its the former, base your character off of famous characters from iron age literature, and have his story parallel or reference said literature.

Why is it so hard to get words on a page? Should I just completely disregard the quality of my prose until I get to the editing stage? Its taking me months to finish a 5000 word short story, cause I only add like 10 words every time I write.

>>22019488
>can't even "t." correctly
You do realise you're saying YOU haven't written anything all year, you insufferable newfag?

>>22019462
Go with the second option and make sure your protagonist is as boring and one-dimensional as possible to optimize self-insertability

It's just one of those days where I cringe at the thought of my own work

>>22019462
>Writing a male character with a female love interest/co-protagonist
I prefer this but I'm an anime brained retard who fucking loves Urusei Yatsura

>>22019498
But was I wrong about you not writing anything this whole year, though.

So I'm re-writing my doorstopper with multiple PoV characters, but I want some of them to die. Does this mean I have to use third person instead of first?

>>22019467
Thanks anon, I'm getting ideas already.
>>22019495
Mostly the first part, but it's going to become more absurd as the story goes on.

I gots so much writing and ain't nobody wants to read it :(

>>22019523
I know that feel broski. Gotta make like Kipling and build back up with worn out tools.

>>22019532
Makes me feel bad about my royal road story. 20 clicks. Probably not a single person read it

>>22019565
post it

>>22019519
nah, their ghost can keep narrating if you make that into another plot element so you can keep expanding it

>>22019565
>Waifushit self-insert romance story I abandoned for 7 months after 3 chapters
>Total Views : 257, 2 favorites
Animebros... we can't stop winning.

>>22019523
Have you ever considered just using one of those websites? Like, I had a dumb pulp adventure thing I was writing for fun and almost post it in watpad just to see what happened until the UI made me quit.

Alright bros I'm done with this dicking around. I'm making myself a cuppa iced vodka coffee and I'm gonna sit down and do nothing but write till dinnertime. No 4chan no emails no cell phone no excuses. Just write write write write.

People enjoy my story, I like my story, but it makes me cringe.
It begins feeling absurd and pointless to write, but browsing 4chan and games feel like a great use of my time instead.
How do I overcome this unbased feeling?

>>22019660
>vodka
Oof

I'M GOING TO GO FULL CLICHE STORM
ANIME TROPES
AI GENERATED ART
MALE HIGHSCHOOL PROTAGONIST
ILLUSION OF DEPTH
SUPPORTING CAST OF ATTRACTIVE GIRLS

TATSUYA SHIBA AIN'T GONNA HAVE SHIT ON ME

>>22019714
just write about what you enjoy. seriously.

>>22019665
>pic
Pls, this is as based as it gets.

>>22019665
Write more stories, duh

>>22019751
>more more more
>quantity quantity quantity
>shovel it down their throats
Write better.

>>22019519
Pick one character, write a short story, and punch it up until it gets published. Do what HPL did with the Cthulhu Mythos

>>22019768
You're only going to write better if you write more.

>>22019768
His problem was that while the quality seemed to be there he didn't like it, usually that means that he hasn't found a voice that feels his own and that's solved trying new stuff until it naturally forms. You find new things in the process, there is no better because there's no score points for feelings.

>>22018581
You should try to read On types of style by Hermogenes.

Do you guys have any tips on how to write a satisfying and or intense climax? Also, some tips on how to have a satisfying in a novel compared to a short story?

>>22019842
>how to have a satisfying in a novel compared to a short story?
How to have a satisfying plot in a novel compared to a short story.

>>22019842
The strength of the climax is in the build up. There's probably some cases where the climax itself is incredible, I can't think of any.

>>22019856
novel plots are merely larger. more moving parts, more setbacks, more cliffhangers. each chapter is, in and of itself, a short story. a novel just takes all those and strings them out in a sensible way for the reader

>>22019747
for me, it's human on female xeno/monster with light maledom

>>22019868
I think I understand then you said buildup because I said satisfying but what about intensity? Perhaps with lots of twists. I don't mean plot twists, but rather quick suspenseful moments.
>>22019936
I know of the three act story structure but are there any archetypes for the plot points in the middle? What about archetypes to subplots? I feel like I have to BS to get to an ending.

>>22019995
>I think I understand then you said buildup because I said satisfying but what about intensity? Perhaps with lots of twists. I don't mean plot twists, but rather quick suspenseful moments.
Maybe you could crunch a bunch of events after the third act, like multiple character arcs meeting in a row and affecting the end result in succesion. But it's still a matter of how much you seeded before.

>>22019995
>three act structure
>archetypes
ngmi. obsessing about process isn't productive

>>22019995
>are there any archetypes for the plot points in the middle?
Just steal from others if you want to standarize your work. You could read Vladimir Propp, something like Morphology of the Folk Tale. But at that granular level it's more the terrain of lingüists and narratologists than writers. There is no formula outside of stealing from someone succesful.

>>22020015
I was thinking perhaps more like twists of fate in a battle. What you said not bad tho.
>>22020046
This is actually something I'm interested in. I'm surprised you brought it up. I love mythology and fairytales. I get the sense that scenes in novels, how do I put it, come off as superfluous. If you have any book or paper recommendations on form and narrative that would be great

Tips on to structure short stories?

>>22020100
I don't think structure's that important if you know where the emphasis is, i.e. what the key idea or dramatic moment is. Once you know that, everything else sort of slots into place.

That said there are two principles that George Saunders talks about that help that 'slotting into place' process:

(1) Always be escalating: this means that each 'beat' in the story has to advance it in some non-trivial way, by upping the stakes or revealing something crucial or adding a complication or whatever. For me, in practice, this means 'always give the reader a reason to carry on to the next paragraph'.

(2) The Ruthless Efficiency Principle: everything in the story has to contribute in an essential way to the key idea, in the same way that everybody in a factory has to be doing something necessary to producing whatever the factory produces. If a scene is nice in itself, but it doesn't add anything to the key idea, then strongly consider cutting it (or else creating a connection between it and the key idea in a way that adds a new twist to the idea and thereby makes the scene feel essential).

>write mai waifu
>Write sex scenes
>Literally cuck myself

>>22020161
Show us anon.

>>22020161
but shes having sex with your self insert isn't she? isn't she, anon?!

So I have this novel I finished and can't get published. It's been sitting here for two years. I already hit up all the agents who would be interested and got stonewalled. However, on wattpad there is a contest for this genre I would qualify to submit to.

I've pretty much given up on getting it published. It's wattpad-friendly story content (appeals to new adult women demographic). Deadline is end of this month, so I could spruce it up and post it easily. At a quick glance the past winners have all been pretty mediocre. The only real prize is publicity. Would this be worth doing, or am I shooting myself in the foot?

>>22019842
>>22019842

Climax is the point of maximum tension. Satisfaction comes from how well the climax is resolved. Intensity comes from how much the reader identifies with the main character and how much is at stake for that character and how uncertain the outcome is over that stake.

Identification requires empathy. Empathy is aroused when the character is both believable and subjected to an unfair or unjust event that inspires moral outrage (typically against the initial expectations of that character). Believability means the reader feels he can reliably predict what the character will do in a situation and that the character is rendered specifically enough to be unsubstituable in the story.

Stakes require a clear (though not necessarily transparent) expression of the character's desires (what he wants) as well its meaning (why he wants it). The highest stake, which is what the climax should build to, is life and death, either directly (as in most genre fiction) or indirectly (the life and death of a certain identity, or "way of living").

Uncertainty is about addressing reader expectations. Certain expectations are immutable and must be fulfilled or else the reader will feel cheated. These include things like genre conventions, payoffs of the premise, closure etc. The key to find creative ways to fulfill them, the uncertainty here lies, not in if, but in how the expectation will be fulfilled. Other expectations can be dismissed. Some can be ignored. The rest can be reversed or subverted. It comes down to figuring out what question the reader is thinking about and building uncertainty around that. In most thrillers, for example, the uncertainty lies not in whether the main character will survive (he almost always does) but in how they will survive, as in, "how are they going to get out of this one?". In a mystery it might be "how did they do it?" or perhaps "why did they do it?". In a romance, possibly "will they get together?" but more likely "how will they get together in spite of...?". And so on.

A novel length plot is built either episodically or by weaving several plots together. A plot is satisfying if it follows a logical chain of cause and effect (particularly with respect to the ending). A plot can be predictable and still be satisfying (and vice versa). The ideal is to be "inevitable and surprising", i.e everything follows logically from the initial premise but the reader could not have (easily) come up with it himself.

>>22020201
you know you can hurt yourself by being too good. wattpad wants trashy fiction. why don't you just self pub and advertise it on adsense?

>>22020201
i can edit it in two weeks and we'll submit it

>>22020202
Thank you for your response.

>Other expectations can be dismissed. Some can be ignored. The rest can be reversed or subverted. It comes down to figuring out what question the reader is thinking about
This interests me. Further explanation would be appreciated.

>A novel length plot is built either episodically or by weaving several plots together. A plot is satisfying if it follows a logical chain of cause and effect (particularly with respect to the ending). A plot can be predictable and still be satisfying (and vice versa). The ideal is to be "inevitable and surprising", i.e everything follows logically from the initial premise but the reader could not have (easily) come up with it himself.
I'm trying to ask about the actual scenarios. I know about this abstract and reader psychology stuff. Plot archetypes, character archetypes, subplot archetypes. I'm interested in tapes and relations really. Tasks, environments, professional occupations. A lot of times I don't know what to write about. Where do I send my character, what is the goal, what are the problems, etc. I feel like everything is so random. I usually write poetry only so I have a good grasp of everything but telling a large story.

>>22020217
Because I'm a writer, not a marketer, and advertising is just shouting into the void.
I think I might go with it. I have other novels so I don't care about losing first publishing rights for this. Fuck it.

do most of you use scrivener or something else?

>>22020279
I use Emacs. It's a fine choice if you already know how to use it. (Not worth it otherwise.)
I need basic text formatting, the ability to add notes/comments that are not parts of the text, and an efficient way to search and navigate. Maybe spellcheck. As long as I have those things I don't really care.

>>22011195
I wrote 218 words today
Almost there, tomorrow I'll make it

>>22020195
No anon. She's getting finger banged by a dastardly bandit.

>>22020279
openoffice
there are a thousand and one free programs you can use, you don't need any bells and whistles. I'll point to this image from the last thread >>22015089

>>22020279
notepad.exe

>>22020265
Expectations can be dismissed or ignored if doing so does not strain the reader's suspension of disbelief. It's often done as a way to eliminate common solutions or outcomes (usually by means of an internal monologue) so as to avoid cliche. For instance, a story about a beautiful, wealthy, but bored widow carries a natural expectation of the appearance of a suitor, but you may wish to dismiss this expectation by having the widow remark that she has already exhausted such possibilities. The user is now primed for something else to happen.

Reversal of expectation is far more common, and is usually aligned with the established expectations of a character. The character thinks something is going to happen one way, but then things turn out to be the complete opposite, which leads to the next situation. Our widow might be looking forward to a visit from her sister only to find out she's sent her daughter (who's all grown up now) instead. Our widow then might expect the arrangement to be tedious only to find out the daughter is exceptionally clever and witty. She then parades her around town expecting everyone's adoration only to find out she's actually a conman and not even her actual niece. And so on. Pretty much any situation can be reworked to create this kind of reversal structure.

The theme (and the various perspectives surrounding it) is the discriminator of what should be included and excluded in a story. See (2) here: >>22020134. Specifics of the plot can be derived from the initial premise and by considering inherent oppositions. A bored, rich, beautiful widow suggests an interesting, poor, plain maiden. The theme might be identity. One perspective (say, the widow's) could be that one's identity is wholly determined by one's world. Another perspective (naturally, the niece's) could be that one can choose one's identity and the world will change to accommodate. An upper class victorian setting would fit well with the theme, but so would modern day Hollywood, or an 80s midwestern high school. Each of these settings than comes with its own set of expectations, which combined with the theme suggests material for the story. E.g if the story takes place in Hollywood, you might have a character that's an actor who is tried of being typecast into comedic roles. Or you might have a neurotic producer who's obsessed with the opinions of respected critics. Or a method actor that's gotten "stuck" on one of his old roles and just acts like him all the time. The widow might take the niece to a Hollywood costume party where a fight breaks out because two people wore similar costumes, etc.

>>22020490
how would you outline a scene using this information?

>>22019995
Look up Save the Cat and Kishotenketsu to get more ideas about storytelling structure.

>>22020490
>Reversal of expectation is far more common, and is usually aligned with the established expectations of a character. The character thinks something is going to happen one way, but then things turn out to be the complete opposite, which leads to the next situation. Our widow might be looking forward to a visit from her sister only to find out she's sent her daughter (who's all grown up now) instead. Our widow then might expect the arrangement to be tedious only to find out the daughter is exceptionally clever and witty. She then parades her around town expecting everyone's adoration only to find out she's actually a conman and not even her actual niece. And so on. Pretty much any situation can be reworked to create this kind of reversal structure.
This was pretty fun to read. I'm going to say this in my notebook can see what I can do with it.

>See (2) here:
I still feel like you understand my problem but now I'm starting to think perhaps I don't either. I feel like I need a huge list of themes, plot archetypes, and character archetypes to help me come up with ideas of what to write about. Maybe I don't know what I want to write about. Sorry I am having such difficulty in articulating myself here. I feel like I'm wandering and I can't come up with scenarios.
>>22020547
I have not heard of the second but I will reread the first on your recommendation.

>>22020532
Storytelling is about change. When you want a scene or sequence ask what changes between the beginning and the end of it. Emotion, mood, tone, goals, motivations, information, dramatic questions, characters, etc. Some, all, or even other things should change.

Maybe a peaceful character turns vengeful. A happy day turns dreary. A romantic scene turns to farce. Could be a combination.

The beginning of the scene or sequence should have expectations. Figure out how it changes by the end and then work your way from the beginning or from the end until the two meet. This takes thought and trial and error. Keep your eye on the prize.

>>22020295
>he ability to add notes/comments that are not parts of the text,

How do you do that with emacs?

>>22020547
I looked up Kishotenketsu. I'm not looking for help on arcs. I'm talking about actual scenarios and characters. I'm not asking about how to build tension and I'm not asking about how to write a believable character. I'm asking about typology. Is it a mother-daughter story, father-son, what does the character have to do, collect an item, travel to a place, persuade someone of something, does it matter if the protagonist is male or female, how does the dynamic change if the protagonists is a male and the antagonist is a female. Do you understand what I'm trying to say now?

>>22020598
Do you have any examples of how to get a character to change over a long period using what you suggested?

>>22020689
please don't talk with people as if they were chatgpt

>>22020532
A scene is too small of a unit to require an outline. The most you can say about it is that it should have a reversal of expectation and you can work backward from the final effect. More important is to figure out what should be rendered as a scene in the first place. You should try to be parsimonious. First try to skip as much as you can, then see if you can get away with summarizing it, and if you can't, only then try to render it as a scene. The purpose of the scene is to allow the reader to simulate a specific experience with all its accompanying emotions. That vicarious aspect should always be kept in mind.

For example in the widow story I outlined above, I would probably skip everything and begin with the widow showing the niece around, probably after she's already become the toast of the town. I'd set it somewhere where the reader would enjoy the simulation, either because of novelty alone or the accompanying emotions or both. Let's it's say a card party similar to pic related. I would do research not necessarily for accuracy but to find details which the reader is unlikely to have encountered elsewhere, to make the simulation feel more real. In the course of that scene all the other information would be given to the reader, by flashback, interspersed summary, internal monologue, dialogue, etc. and then at the end of it the niece's true identity is discovered.

To that extent you don't need an outline, you can just start writing and letting the scene evolve by itself, while keeping all the information you need to divulge and the ending of the scene in mind. You could also work backward, reversing cause and effect. What has to happen for the widow to discover the fraud? Maybe someone at the party reveals it to her. What has to happen for that to happen? Maybe a friend of the widow gets jealous or annoyed and decides to tell her truth. What has to happen for that to be possible? The friend would have to discover the truth for himself and the niece would have had to annoy him somehow. And so on.

>>22020675
https://garykac.github.io/plotto/plotto-mf.html

When I think about this story everything makes sense except the climax, which only barely makes sense. I keep saying to myself, "yes this is sufficient justification for this character to act this way, yes this is surprising but inevitable, yes it fits the themes and is actually tragic." But I sometimes think about it and it just feels...off. Like it doesn't really address the real conflict or is too difficult to believe as credible. Whatever the case is, I'm gonna find out from some beta readers and other people I'd like to consult before I publish. I don't want to second guess myself for no reason, but I have a bad feeling that the climax isn't good. I do think the ending is good at least.

>>22020689
there are these lovely things called books that do exactly this. you may want to pick up one or three to see some examples.

>>22020699
>The purpose of the scene is to allow the reader to simulate a specific experience with all its accompanying emotions.
But shouldn't the scene have a thematic or subthematic element and an archetypal signification?
>>22020699
>What has to happen for that to happen? Maybe a friend of the widow gets jealous or annoyed and decides to tell her truth. What has to happen for that to be possible? The friend would have to discover the truth for himself and the niece would have had to annoy him somehow. And so on.
But altering even one of these elements can change the web of thematic and archetypal associations.
>>22020708
I have already read this but I will look at it again because of you. Thank you.

>>22020772
>But shouldn't the scene have a thematic or subthematic element and an archetypal signification?
not necessary
>But altering even one of these elements can change the web of thematic and archetypal associations
if you change things then things will change

>>22020778
I think it is necessary. I don't think it's something you can avoid at all or willingly.

>>22020785
that's because you're viewing the creation of the scene as, I have a theme in mind, so I will write this scene in order to display that theme. Whereas you could just as easily write the scene without a theme in mind, or during the process of writing it your supposed theme gets thrown on its head because you find it more compelling

>>22020785
I find themes more easily emerge during editing than ideation
on intuition I write something compelling and then I ask myself why it's compelling

>>22020798
You may not write the scene with a theme in mind but ultimately you want it to connect with the greater theme. The theme is the point of the story. And there is always a theme to get out of the scenario whether you wrote something there purposefully or not. What I don't understand is how to balance the theme of each scenario with the overall theme.

>>22020809
I agree that that sounds much easier but most of the time I come up with the theme before the story. I know that it is said that some writers begin with the character and some writers begin with a plot idea, but I've never heard of someone who begins with the theme.

No clue why I made vodka coffee. I hate alcohol. I took a few sips and poured it down the drain.
On the bright side, I finished a chapter today.

>>22020849
I've tried mixing alcohol with coffee a few times and it never tastes as good as it sounds. Even coffee liqueur in coffee was pretty shit.

>>22020849
Irish whisky goes with coffee.
Vodka goes with cranberry juice.
You just got your mix...well, mixed up.

>>22020812
>The theme is the point of the story
this is where you're completely off base

>>22020947
Am I really? I'm not saying that the story shouldn't be beautiful or enjoyable.

>>22020772
>But shouldn't the scene have a thematic or subthematic element and an archetypal signification?
Sure, but that's not the main purpose of the scene. You can do this just as well (probably better) with a summary. You pull out the scene when you want the reader to enter the simulation. The simulation is not necessary to tell a good story, you can tell a story completely in summary, but it is potent tool for generating things like identification.

Theme can also only consciously inform the story in a global sense. I.e you can set up characters, the setting, the overall plot, to reflect the theme, but the rest you have to leave to your subconscious. The subconscious is much better at that sort of task than the logical, linear, conscious mind, the equivalent of a GPU vs. a CPU. You can feel when something in your story doesn't work or feels off. The solution then is to remind yourself of it occasionally, and just sit on it. Take plenty of naps after thinking about it. Work on something else. Consume new material. Trying to solve it analytically is just a waste of time.

>>22018337
I approve this thread.
I also progress my literature.

>>22021072
>AI slop
Just leave us alone already

>>22021086
Just as soon as you provide specific reasons for doing so, instead of a plethora of vague, general seething.

>>22021091
because you're a peacocking faggot

>At which point I will decorate OP with the mother of all AI-generated images.
>Then I'll resume my technology job, where I'll labor endlessly to replace humans with machines.
>The genie is not going back into the bottle, for you or for me.
>Adapt or die.

>>22021086
>I let you create the general and its still not enough.
Ungrateful pleb!
You have provided no creative contribution to this general save for being anti AI. Refusing to see that creations of the past can be used as seeds for creations of the future is a worryingly unstable point of view. nothing exists in a vacuum, except maybe you ego.

>>22021161
You've made no creative contribution period

>>22021161
Imagine generating this and not only thinking it's good enough to occupy space on your PC but also thinking you should share it with others. Do you not comprehend how ugly this is?

>>22021108
Are you really too arrogant to admit you have no legitimate reason to hate AI images, yet continue to seethe about them?
I'll wager your writing is similarly devoid of imagination.

>>22021165
>>22021172

>>22021179
I'll wager you haven't written a single chapter of anything, let alone an entire first draft.

>>22021179
I'll wager you're entirely devoid of imagination in all aspects

>>22021165
I have made several in this one and previous ones, i share what i'm working on and help edit other anons work, all you do is screech and cling to the past. It is very unhealthy anon

>>22021197
The level of intellect you display and the tastes you clearly hold makes it very clear you're incapable of contributions or helping others in artistic pursuits. Tastless 50 year old moron.

According to Aaron Sorkin, the unforgivable sin of writing is "writing a bunch of cool-sounding words that have no meaning to them".

>>22021091
We provided reasons, you just dont like them

How's this for an amateur book cover?

>>22021195
>>22021196
Wrong. I've completed a handful of novels, about a dozen screenplays, and several dozen short stories.
The way I neatly dispatch your pseud attempts at discourse is all the evidence I need of writing ability.
Meanwhile, your seething is sub-par even by grade-school bully standards.
And you still haven't given any actual reasons to be opposed to AI-generated images, only vague, nonspecific seething.

>>22021258
Post one

>>22021217
https://youtu.be/pX7Enc8UElM

>>22021202
>Tastless
illiterate
opinion discarded
>50 year old
You'll be 50 some day, too.
I mean, unless you kys.

>>22021225
Your reasons were just unsupported conclusions.
To me, your real reasons are obvious–you're threatened by AI-generated images, because you were never very good to begin with, and now your skills are obsolete.

>>22021256
Not the worst, but it's too simple to be complex and too complex to be minimalist. Will it appeal to your audience? Marketing isn't about the product but the audience you want.

>>22021274
Why do you give a fuck this is a thread for writing

>>22021275
I have no fucking clue what audiences want. How the fuck am I supposed to know that?

>>22021266

>>22021263
I've posted many of them. Even here, but usually other places.
I'm not going to now, because all you'll do is shit on them mindlessly.

>>22021258
yes, yes, you're a legend in your own mind.
you clearly have too great a work ethic with too much writing produced and too many friends who all love to read all those books and articles and screenplays you've written to waste your time slumming around here, so do us a favor and fuck off, you lyin' cunt

>has marketing degree
>thinks she would be making $120k if she wasn't bestowing her oh so important services of sending form rejections to us plebians
>actual marketing tards make $30k
>source: I worked with many
how much hot air can this vaxxed up vegan whore fit in her tiny little head? She's getting roasted. her agenting career is over. Because the dumb whore couldn't stay off twitter.

>>22021283
>I'm not going to now, because all you'll do is shit on them mindlessly.
To me, your real reasons are obvious–you're threatened by our criticism, because you were never very good to begin with, and now your arguments are obsolete.

>>22021278
And you can't even write a simple argument against AI-generated images.
Is your writing similarly devoid of discourse?

>>22021283
I recognize that OC. That's not AI art, that's just colorshifted from this 5 year old twitter post
https://twitter.com/iah_fy/status/1031696688082169856?lang=en
Now stop shitting up the thread

>>22021283
wait, is this hell anon shitposting? if it is quit being a nigger, nigger, and get back to work on that story you abandoned

>>22021290
>ya'll, ya'll, ya'll

>>22021285
I come here to try to help worthy anons with their writing.
You are not one of them.
>>22021297
Your criticisms wouldn't be worth the electrons hosting them.

Now, you two...give ACTUAL SPECIFIC reasons you're opposed to AI-generated images.
Something better than "because they're shit, and you're a doo doo head". Because that's all you've offered so far.
Maybe specific criticisms on the images I've been posting along with these replies.

>>22021299
The moron has been posting some nonAI art with "AI art" in the filename in some pathetic attempt to "gotcha" people who claim it looks like shit. Hasn't worked though because people can tell when something is or isn't AI shart instantly. He's just a troll, obsessed with AI art because finally he can "stick it to all those artists and connoisseur who looked down on me"

>>22021315
>image is clearly ugly
>"ERM SOURCE???"
Maybe just invest in some eyes or a brain

>>22021290
where does god come up with these stupid faggots

>>22021299
Actually, it's something that Hell-Anon paid his friend to make for him.
Sounds like his "friend' ripped him off.

>>22021290
I don't know about y'all folks but white/jewish cityslicker email job women trying to jive talk like good old fashioned down south country lovin' niggers sho' is tiresome!

>>22021290
Bonus from replies: kf is down but we all have to remember that Patrick Tomlinson is a pedophile who makes illegal sausage in his basement out of african american children. He's also really fat, and still owes Quasi ~$40,000.

>>22021316
Finally, someone with a brain.
>>22021324
Not you...you failed the test.
>>22021325
"God must love stupid people...he made so many of them." -Lily Tomlin

>>22021333
I wasn't talking about your stock swing set image, idiot.

>>22021335
Sure, NOW you claim that.
Then why did you reply to it?
Pwned.

If this ai shitter makes a thread, ignore it and make another to replace it because he clearly can't get the hint

>>22021344
Why would open your image files?

So where are all you self-publishers/royal road bros going for book covers? I gave Stable Diffusion a try, but it couldn't really do what I wanted at all. I'm leaning toward an actual artist just so there's no question of copyright/legality.

>>22021365
I use Stable Diffusion to generate pieces, then use a standard image editor like GIMP to composite the final result.
Go with an actual artist all you want, but be prepared to pay through the nose.

>>22021361
That's not even a sentence.
Are you illiterate or ESL?

>>22021298
It's completely off-topic. That should be reason enough. If I come in here and start ranting about the price of gas, it doesn't matter whether or not I'm right; it's got fuck all to do with writing. Same here. Say you're right, and AI art is the future. We both know that's not true, and you're just trolling. I'm feeding you, by writing this response. But let's pretend you're right.
It still doesn't matter. Because AI generated images aren't about writing. So they shouldn't be discussed in a thread on writing.
>But if AI images take over, couldn't the same thing happen to writers
Maybe. That's a separate discussion. Even though the AI process works similarly in different mediums, what makes a story engaging and entertaining is different from what makes a picture visually appealing. A picture is consumed in an instant; it can be studied further, its details and composition taken in and appreciated, but we know whether or not it looks wrong in an instant. And this is without any debate on artistic merit, the feelings it evokes in the viewer, or the message it sends.
Writing is different. The reader immerses themselves in the text; sometimes only for a few paragraphs, sometimes for dozens of books. In a well-written book, details are carefully chosen, language is used with intent and purpose. Themes are interwoven with the work, whether they're complex or simple. And even more than with pictures, people can tell when something's off.
>you're replying to bait
I know. But I want to discuss writing. I want to write. I'm not here to talk about AI art, I'm not here to talk about visual art at all. So fuck off.

>>22021375
It's 4.30am.

>>22021161
Imagine the quartet of blowey joeys.

>>22021379
And you've got nothing useful to do tomorrow, and no one that values your time or presence?
Are you also on drugs?

>>22021378
Of course AI-generated images are on-topic.
We need cover-images for our work, and human artists charge WAY too much.

>>22021390
Says the 50 year old browsing 4chan near midnight. No wife or family I take it, can't generate those yet. I can't sleep and I don't have class tomorrow, is ad hominem your current mode of attack, AI tard?

>>22021404
kek you're pathetic, did you really rename this many images to have "AI" in the filename in sad hopes to catch someone out?

>>22021405
It's not that late yet–I'm not in your time zone–but yeah, I'm about to crash.
Have a wonderful rest of your day. Enjoy being miserable.
>AI tard
Adorable. He thinks he's people.

>>22021404
This image looks good, this >>22011137 image looks like diarrhea. The fact you can't fathom that is really telling of you psychology. Like, why couldn't you just use this nice village photo instead when you were raping our eyes with AI shart?

>>22021404
We don't need anything besides pen and paper

>50+ year old familyless bachelor who shills AI art with wojak images on 4chan
This is who we're dealing with. The guy's definitely on the spectrum

>>22021422
The weirdest part is labeling images like >>22021283 and >>22021404 as AI like that will somehow fool anyone. If anything it just makes the difference even more stark. It's almost like some sort of schizophrenic false-flag.

>>22021407
>>22021429
You can't tell them apart without Google Lens, and you know it.
Besides, >>22021283 is a perfect example of what I'm talking about–Hell-Anon paid someone to make that for him, and that artist simply stole someone else's work and passed it off as his own.

>>22021441
oh yeah is that why not a single person went "looks like shit" like you were expecting to any of the nonAI shart images? You're a fucking loser, just go away.

the fact this guy just admitted he can't tell the difference between AI art and real art is genuinely hilarious. If this isn't evidence that AI art is only enjoyed by the most moronic of tastelets I don't know what is.

What file format do we use to submit a text document here? I tried PDF but that did not work.

>>22021486
pastebin or catbox.moe

>>22021359
seconding this. if AI anon wants to be a dumb asshole then let him fall on his own sword. we're not required to use threads with troll OPs

>>22021572
Thank you. I wrote the following on a lark. I do not mean anything serious by it but I hope that I can get advice and critique regarding my fundamental and technical writing skills.

> ~1500 words, ~5 minutes
https://files.catbox.moe/1u5tg6.pdf

Thank you one and all for what advice you can give. I hope to submit other work in the future.

>>22021581
I'd cut the first two sentences and start with
>Mission launch was in T minus three hours...
Or maybe just cut the first
There's punctuation you need to clean up here and there. Mainly though you need to try and let some of the jokes breathe, or change them slightly to make them a bit punchier. Example
>Balls Aldrin was the best astronaut in the world, and more importantly the United States.
Balls Aldrin was the best astronaut in the world, and also the United States, the most important country in the world.

>>22020659
Org mode or markdown. (Markdown just has HTML comments so it's worse.)

I have tolerated you long enough.
Try not to break to many things.

>>22021803
>to many

>>22021804
thank you for contributing too :)

>>22020401
OpenOffice is basically dead, have you tried LibreOffice?

>>22021072
>threads were ruined by a zogbot
What a surprise. Don't they need you on the front, Ivan?

>>22018337
REEEEE
>that picture has nothing to do with modern literature delete it now!

What the fuck do I do with my first novella once it's done? Self-publish on Amazon, release for free on some website, or try to shill someone into publishing it? I've heard self-publishing is a bad plan since publishers like first-time writers

>>22022091
like all good artists, you should burn the manuscript and start working on your second

Feeling less and less confident about my story with every word I write.

>>22022230
What a pussy.
>just keep writing and you will find how it turns out.

>>22022230
Have you ever tried to have a brainstorm session with anyone else to tell you what's bothering you, or if it makes sense?

Well, after two weeks, I am finally done editing. Now I get to write fresh content again. Doesn't feel as liberating as I had hoped.

>>22022235
Who are you quoting?

>>22018872
You should be able to self publish the Science Fiction novels with no issue. If you go the traditional publishing route with your Technothriller, keep in mind licensing and the issues that can occur with it. Example of Worst Case with Licensing: They could trad publish your first book and not opt to continue with your second book. However, if they maintain licensing on the series/characters it could legally prevent you from self publishing the sequel. You’re mostly overthinking it though.

What happened to review anon?

>>22022252
I get kind of embarrassed to talk about my ideas with my friends to be honest. Not so much once with others but my friends specifically I find awkward as hell

How many words is good for a day of writing? I'm on 700

>>22022611
1000 or 2000. But ultimately comes down to how complicated your project is and how much revision you need to make what you want. I think if you can finish a novel once or twice a year, you are doing better than most.

>>22022499
This week has been hell at work, I am managing a first production batch of something I developed and I might even get a phonecall to go to the plant at midnight if I'm lucky.
Was I supposed to write something about I Pray to the Hungry God? I will post my thoughts in like 7 or 8 hours. Will finish Mixtape and BAS this weekend. Chikins World next week.

"women who only read female writers try not to project their shortcomings onto men writing women" challenge, difficulty level : impossible

>>22018861
It makes no difference, lied is lied and laid is laid. I like the sound of "lay down" better but to make it grammatically correct you would have to say "laid herself down".

>>22022642
As a man, I both love and hate my female deuteragonist so much it's unreal. And I did manage to give her enough agency and nuance and other goals that I think she is more than "muh husband" which is probably the most common criticism women give to men. But her husband is still the most important man in her life, despite the entire conflict of the story starting because she didnt listen to him. So hater readers will have to seethe, she's a good girl.

>>22022611
>a day of writing
Writing is done over minutes and hours. "A day of writing" could me 45 minutes on a lunchbreak or 12 hours while high on meth. The average somewhat practiced writer will produce ~500 words per hour.

>>22018337
there is nothing less helpful than a college undergrad creative writing class. They can never properly facilitate a respectful objective discussion of each student's writing without it devolving into pathetic displays of dick-measuring (by the teacher and even amongst the other students) and select favoritism where people passive-aggressively tear one another's work down. It also help that most creative writing majors are now overrun by a majority female population, so when you enroll in these courses expect to find disgusting blue haired pigs thinking they're special for waxing poetic writing

>>22022901
Really? When I took mine, it was the opposite. Everyone being super nice to each other to avoid hurting each other's feelings.

>>22021890
yeah, whenever I run linux. they're very similar but the download I have of openoffice is inside the file I've been transferring from computer to computer for a decade plus now so w/e I get a new one I just reinstall. even if it's been discontinued it works just fine

>>22022611
if I hit 1k that's solid and I'm happy with it. more is generally better, less is not, although there may be multiple reasons why I don't hit 1k, some less forgivable than others

>>22022932
Ah, fair enough
If it works it works

Getting ready to self-publish my first little something
I'm using LaTeX to do the formatting because LibreOffice Writer makes me wanna kill myself, am I retarded?

>>22022907
I have to assume the anon that focused mainly on the hair color of a 18 year old girl wasn't the most receptive and humble member of that class. It's the same when they describe the type of writer they hate and it's just Doug's sister from Nickelodeon's Doug.

Do you guys remembe the boom of "minimlaist" text processors? Did any of those ever feel any different to you? I always felt they missed the point.

>>22023082
nah, libreoffice is fine but it's not really good.

>>22022420
Its an implication you npc.
>>22022611
Just write how ever much you feel you need on a regular basis so that you can see your work to completion.
>>22022658
Thanks, this unironically just helped me flesh out one of my female characters.

>>22023082
>I'm using LaTeX to do the formatting because LibreOffice Writer makes me wanna kill myself
Lol, that's a good idea -- as long as you don't use the default LaTeX font. Although it does have a certain awkward charm.

>>22023127
Naw I'm using the fonspec package for my fonts, makes the compile time for my doc ridiculously long though

>>22023125
Have you ever seen this many absolute queens in one room?

>>22023082
>people are out here writing a novel in a coding language but then spin around and say libreoffice is too difficult to figure out
wild shit

>>22023158
It's too difficult to make it do what I want it to do and the documentation is shit, exporting to epub is shit

>>22023158
>>22023163
Also, I've already written the novel in LibreOffice, I just want it formatted precisely the way I want before I publish

YOU! Stop posting and write!

>>22023253
no, i'm not taking advice from you.
>twin peaks(2017) was a shit

>>22023302
>AI slop

>>22020279
Scrivener all the way. Would never go back to word or google docs.

I've always thought that boiling down writing to a science is kind of lame.

>>22023166
I found the formula to put out a good paperback on Amazon. At least I think it's good.

>>22020279
W O R D P A D
N I G G A S
really be out there writin without Microsoft grammar suggestions
On 2 (two) monitors so I can wordpad write on my left and wordpad think on my right. I dont even know my word count until I'm done for the day.

>>22023253
I just finished 3k words today, taking a breather before I head to work.

>>22023672
whats your premise

>>22023463
There is a craft to it, and ignoring that just handicaps you

>>22023669
1 subject notebook niggas

>>22023719
It's a fantasy novel about a girl on the run from the cult she grew up in after she learns the leaders have been torturing their God to steal his powers.
Today I was mostly working on chapters about a side character, a mortician in the cult whose job is to prepare the dead bodies of acolytes so they can reincarnate properly. He realizes something is suspicious from all the damaged bodies coming into the morgue, so he starts to sneak around himself.

>>22023845
>It's a fantasy novel about a girl
SRRT

>>22023845
what made you decide on a female protagonist?

>>22023950
Deuteragonist, the other one's a dude who wants to be a knight in shining armor even though he's an illiterate chef who based his ambitions on all the stories he heard growing up. Even though their world is a depressing place where people are constantly manipulating, lying, and stabbing each other in the back.
It's fun because they both get to take turns being the stupid one. The girl because she's not an illiterate idealist, and the guy because even though he's naive he wasn't raised in a cult.

>>22023975
make sure she has sex with another man before ultimately settling for the chef knight guy

>>22023975
this sounds so cringey

>>22023975
I think it sounds fun

>>22023326
>insecure talent-less hack.
>>22023720
I didnt realise this at first. I thought; 'oh i'll just shit out my thoughts edit a bit the BAM! story's done!'
Oh how dumb and naive i was.

Behold, hot and fresh retardation.

Agents, by the way, did not even switch to having email and websites until ~10 years ago. Many of them still use fax.

>>22024101
ye that is pure retardation. here's how the market has moved
trad publishers hate taking risks. they hate it. this makes sense because the vast, vast majority of the money they make is created by a handful of exceptionally famous writers. wasting time and money on some unknown is usually a losing gamble. fortunately, self publishing has never been easier. so what they do is they wait to see if some self published author strikes it big, and then they swoop in after the fact and try and snag a known quantity to pump out a bunch more books. this works for them, less risk, and this works for the self pubbed author, the trad publisher has a bunch of support systems, editing, cover design, distribution, puff pieces in friendly media
where does this leave agents? lol who cares

How do I ensure the reader knows something a character said is a quote and not something I wrote without it being specified? Do I just do quotes in quotes (e.g., "'You will never be a woman.'") and hope they will realize it?

>>22024088
>>22024101
No one asked, faggot

>>22024182
you could make it clear the character is relaying information by saying that, like they're reading out of a book or a report, or you could literally have the character say, "And I quote: 'then whatever it is they're quoting.' "

>>22024182
if it's not understandable from context, just explicitly state that the character is quoting something
>Quoth Howard: "You will never be a woman."

Trying my hand at writing schizoid/deluded characters

>>22024260
You're about 20% too wordy. I'd recommend you give your writing a couple of severe revision passes.

E.g.:

>I've got a secret.

>Do you want to hear it? I can you see you're curious. But, no, I'm sorry, I can't divulge such information without jeopardising the lives of your family and friends. Even your own life is at stake just by talking to me.

>>22024198
Doesn't want information unprompted.
>Sure is AI in here.

>>22024238
That's not what 'quoth' means. It's just an archaic way of saying 'said'.

>>22024182
If it's clear to the characters in the fictional universe, then it will be clear to the reader. If it's not clear in the context of the characters own universe, then why even include it?

I researching Roman mythology for my book. Fuck its fun, but its so good that its discouraging me from making my own story. How can I even compare?

>>22024127
honestly i'm seeing this. hopefully agents all lose their jobs and have to wage as a grocery store bagging lad for minimum wage. the most arrogant, entitled bunch of dickheads on the planet.

>>22021606
the original is funny, your version is not
don't believe him, anon.

>>22024260
You're not angry and disconnected enough

All my writing is schizo and deluded

>>22024452
If you identify as intersectional enough (gay, trans, black, female, etc. with anxiety, autism, and depression), and continue writing like that, wokesters will make you rich and famous!
At least, until you get canceled for failing to meet their impossible standards of goodthink.

>>22024729
wut

>reading over a manuscript I finished and laid aside 2 years ago
>had the idea it was trash
>it's actually amazingly good; it doesn't even feel like I wrote it
Fuck yeah

>>22024755
That means you're not improving

>>22024101
>Getting angry at literary agents is like getting angry about the horse traffic on your street corner in 1907.
Stop shitting in the road you useless animal.

>>22018337
>Muh distraction free writing software
If you're going to write, you need to put finished drafts in DOCX with manuscript formatting anyway, so it's just easier to draft in Word or Google Docs. Less files and less time spent copying it over.

I haven't written anything all week

>>22024774
crabbo

>>22024919
crappo

>>22024878
I write all my fiction in a text editor, in Markdown format.
That makes it easy to save versions of it using git.
I then use pandoc to convert it to .odt, .docx, or whatever.

>>22024260
this feels too inauthentic.

>>22024789
>>22024789
>>22024789

>>22020897
That's just a picture of Nemo's car from LXG.

>>22025106
stop posting new threads faggot these threads never even reach the limit

>>22025023
my hero

>>22025372
He does that because he's actually that terrified of AI-generated images.
He'll do...ANYTHING...to avoid them.

Coomers, your thoughts?

>>22026371
looks like shit

>>22026435
Your insecurity is palpable.
Also, what are you going to do when the next version of AI-image generation is released & its quality blows away what came before?
You know, like the giant leap between DALL-E and Stable Diffusion?

>>22025637
One drawback to using a word processor (like LibreOffice) directly is the possibility of subtle, accidental formatting errors.
When one uses pandoc to convert Markdown based on a template of named styles, there's no possibility of that.
Definitely an advantage when one's work runs to hundreds of pages.

>>22026467
Your retardation is palpable

it's over

>>22026849
Your deflection is keen. Too bad that's not a good thing.
Now go write another "Sword From The Sky".

Finally, Gardner's shill-spamming threads have been deleted from the catalog.
About fucking time, jannies.