/lit/ - Literature

primum latinae

>>22228086
That painting or digital drawing is way too green.

>>22228424
anon, I..

>>22228086
I'm about to start Greek.

>>22228951
IM READY TO QUIT ALREADY FUCK THIS SHIT.

what kind of ablative is "teste David cum Sibylla" anyway?

lol

>>22229184
ablative absolute, describing a circumstantial event/thing hence no past participle

>>22229416
so "David being the witness with Sibylla"?
I guess David IS indeclinable

>>22229462
yes to both, some biblical names IIRC decline but most don't

>>22229072
Come on anon. It's not that bad...

>necenim
>atenim
i just made these feel free to use them

watch this:
indidemque (each from the same source)

Ave

Thank fuck for the Loeb Classical Library

>>22229972
Amen

>>22229967
>Ave
True to Caesar

Quemadmodum.

FINNASTARTWRITINGWITHOUTSPACESANDLOWERCASELIKETHEROMANSANDGREEKS

>>22231462
NONMODOVLLOSPATIOINTERPOSITOSED
EREBIRCSETTSMUUQEAECIDEFORTSUB

>>22229766
videamus novicium Pauli Alleni

I remember some years ago reading Livy up to book 3 or something and getting bored of the back and forth shit between plebs and patricians and jumping onto something else, even though I kinda enjoyed the first two, especially the first. Does it get better afterwards? Anyone read all of Livy? I'm soon gonna be done with Virgil and I wanted to jump back into some solid prose.

This is what /clg/ has come to?

How/where learn latin?/???

>>22232070
Book 5 onwards are good, it's just 2-4 that are mainly plebs vs patricians bollocks nobody cares about (with no real sources either, so we're not entirely sure how much of what Livy is talking about is complete bullshit). Those three books are a bit of a slog but it picks up from there as Rome goes from basically a glorified tribe to conquering all of Italy

>>22232840
it's just getting started
billions must learn classical languages

did the romans notice how similar greek was to latin? I mean there's no way they couldn't have seen the similarity between ἀράχνη and aranea

Do we agree with this list?

>>22233624
>Russian
>Icelandic
do they mean old church Slavonic and Norse?

>>22233651
I don't think it's useful to distinguish Icelandic from Old Norse. Unlike the other Scandinavian languages, it retains nearly all of the morphological features of Old Norse, from the four case system to the masculine and feminine genders, which have merged into one in Swedish e.g.

>>22231462
Actually, I changed my mind, lowercase is kind of kino.

>>22232947
Wheelock's Latin is really good for grammar and has selections from a good range of different authors, it's mostly how I learned. I'd recommend trying to memorize the back of the book (grammar tables). After that, just read whatever interests you whether you feel confident in how much Latin you know or not.

>>22233496
yes

>Got a Caesar primer
>Finally made an anki deck
Now is the time
Now is the time

>>22233905
you can't post that and not share deck bro

>>22232947
Any grammar book/first year stuff. Wheelocks, LLPSI or any variant. Basically your goal should be to learn the grammar and so some easy reading of texts. Once you think you're somewhere comfortable through these I'd recommend just jumping into real Latin texts. Maybe ease into them with primers but you need to read the real deal eventually.

>>22233624
russian is the best classical language of all

>>22229462
I’ve seen it as a 3rd decl. before: “Dāvīd, Dāvīdis”

>>22233496
the romans were unabashed grecaboos

>>22233624
reposting from an earlier thread

remember the roman elite was disgusted by latin as the language of the plebs and spoke in greek amongst themselves

>>22229072
why?

>>22234382
lol Completely wrong but decent bait.

>>22233624
It's missing Akkadian. Persian, which has been extremely important for thousands of years, isn't on there either. Arabic isn't on there.

>>22234364
French is still a classical language regardless of what Hegel has to say thoughever

is the study of classical languages a purely selfish endeavor? how do we serve the greater good with our gift lads?

how to into greek?

>>22235002
>the greater good
Mate my country will be majority non White within my lifetime. I'm kinda just hoping to make myself into a tiny ember of a brilliant fire that once roared across the Mediterranean.

I've been meaning to start Ancient Greek though I don't know where to start. I was thinking JACT or Athenaze, but I really don't know. I don't have any local colleges that teach it. Any advice?

>>22235099
Yellowman here. Our kind eagerly studies that glorious heritage yours eagerly forgets. That fire will find its future home with us and maybe India.

>>22235002
Study of your classics isn't noble: it's the bare minimum. To refuse that custodianship is selfish.

>>22235318
本黄人

Pr
P w / eis / ei / omen / ete / ousi(n) --- omai / ei or n, / etai / ometha / esthe / ontai
S on / es / e / omen / ete / on (+e) --- omen / ou / eto / omen / esthe / onto (+e)
S w / n,s, / n, / wmen / nte / wsi(n) --- wmai / n, / ntai / wmetha / nsthe / wntai
O oimi / ois / oi / oimen / oite / oien --- oimnn / oio / oito / oimetha / oisthe / ointo

Fu
P sw / seis / sei / somen / sete / sousi(n) --- somai / sei or sn, / setai / sesthe / sontai -- thesomai / theisei or thesn, / theisetai / thesometha / thesesthe / thesontai
O soimi / sois / soi / soimen / soite / soien --- soimnn / soio / soito / soimetha / soisthe / sointo --- thesoimnn / thesoio / thesoito / thesoisthe / thesointo

>>22235520
>soimi / sois / soi / soimen / soite / soien --- soimnn / soio / soito / soimetha / soisthe / sointo --- thesoimnn / thesoio / thesoito / thesoisthe / thesointo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKoKKjOAZ2U

>>22235222
pick both silly
I used Athenaze mostly, great stuff. One JACT book for Homeric.

Sup, lads. I've been getting into greek tragedy recently (I have no real desire to learn greek, however, at least as of yet) and so far I've read a few, though no Aeschylus yet.
While I'm beginning to sympathize more with the plays by Euripides, Sophocles is, I think, still the one I enjoy the most, my favorite play of his being Philoctetes.
Any recs about which plays to read next? I've only read 5 so far, 3 of them by Euripides. Maybe start Aeschylus next?

>>22236768
Aeschylus, Sophocles, then Euripides is best IMO
First two concurrently is fine. Euripides draws a lot from the others and it helps to have them as a background
When you read the Oedipus trilogy of Sophocles read them together.

>>22236892
To clarify the so-called trilogy, Oedipus Rex, Oedipus at Colonus, Antigone

Can I use JACT and the Italian Athenaze while ignoring the grammar sections (I don't speak Italian)?

>>22237325
yeah probably. i went through the grammar translation route and read the italian athenaze after. it worked really well and i got the best of both worlds.

>>22237331
Think I'll do both at the same time, since that's what I did for Latin

do fellas who want to get into Plato(in Greek possibly) usually need to do much reading into the presocratics beforehand?

How long would it take me to learn attic+ionic+koine on a level where I could read most texts fluently? I am mostly interested in philosophy and history, so Plato Aristotle Herodotus down to Zosimos, Arrian and even stuff like the Alexiad.

I wanna learn greek but I dont know if I am ready to put in so many hours only to be able to read like 5 authors. I can already speak 3 languages fluently if that matters

>>22238600
I mean as said in the other thread "fluently" will probably mean some years depending on effort, you'll always need a dictionary really, it's just a matter of how often, especially since you are talking about literature spanning about 1000 years give or take

What did they mean by this

>>22238768
interesting, apparently it started as a joke in the Greek comedies?

bump

>>22228086
What's "nefarious" in Phoenician?

>>22235958
Oh, I am meaning to say is there anything else beside those two sources? Or should I just use those two.

>>22238441
You can read most of the pre-Socratic fragments in a weekend, especially if you exclude stuff like the Hippocratic corpus

For serious reading, get the new Laks/Most ones, they are Greek/English parallel and usually not that hard to read although interpreting them is another story. "Panta rhei" is first day stuff at least. But if you want just a taste of how easy it is to read most of the major fragments get the old Ancilla to the Presocratics by Freeman, which is very thin.

If you want a decent intro to Greek thought leading up to Plato, try Zeller's Outlines or Windelband's History of Ancient Greek Philosophy, just for the (short) pre-Socratic part, since he reads them as a kind of Hegelian dialectical heightening of abstraction and self-conscious apprehension of Being and Becoming as seemingly opposed yet necessary categories, a very USEFUL reading even if you later abandon or qualify it. (The subsequent Plato/Aristotle stuff is alright as food for thought but he has some antiquated or idiosyncratic elements.) Zeller is useful because he talks about the sophists and general intellectual atmosphere of 5th century Greece.

>>22240488
Also if you want to read Plato in Greek don't wait until you have perfect Greek skills as he is actually a fairly challenging author, kind of a medium level challenge, so if you try to do everything "by the book" you will wait too long before you read Plato. Just get enough Greek that you can take apart basic grammar and syntax, and look things up when needed, and then get a Loeb parallel text and start hacking your way through whatever texts you're interested in. It's a great way to acquire hands-on experience, since you're not focused on doing a perfect translation, just on acquiring essential vocabulary. You never forget your first encounter with Plato and Aristotle in the Greek, if you really love philosophy. You suddenly see behind all these imperfect shitty English renderings of Greek technical terms and can read the terms directly. You don't need perfect knowledge of Greek to do that, you can get by with fairly poor knowledge in fact. When in doubt, consult the English in parallel. This way you leave off the finer points of how to translate indirect speech etc. for later when your skills improve, while in the mean time you are acquiring hundreds of ubiquitous technical terms and a feeling for the language.

>>22240488
Forgot to recommend if you really want to dive deep before reading Plato read Guthrie on Orphism and Burkert on Pythagoreanism (Lore and Science).

Is there a good bilingual German/Greek or French/Greek Homer? I'd like to read it but if I have the facing side in English I would cheat too much.

>>22240650
Reclam for German
Bude for French

>>22240651
Thank you

Should I be drinking Old English 800 while I am trying to learn Old English?

>>22241040
Stop trying to be funny. This is a serious thread. Serious posts only. LEAVE

Is there an anglicized form of the name Medus?

>>22229072
Start with what they had to share rather gay history

>>22241284
Yes, but it's not a name.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Mede#English

>>22241090
Ok. On a serious note why does every single site authoritatively state: this IS how Old English was pronounced! Where do I find the sources and methods for their reasoning? They never provide any.

For a language that's been dead for nigh a 1000 years and the precursor to the unpredictable chaos that is modern English they sure seem way too certain.

>Ic was pronounced like Itch, dude trust me bro

>>22241477
Just read old lit. Once you understand their lingo you will get the hang of it

(Biblical) Hebrew bros?

Does מָלֵא (pa'al) really mean both "he/it was filled by" and "he/it filled"? For example,
in Chronicles II 5:13: וְהַבַּיִת מָלֵא עָנָן ("and the house was filled by a cloud"),
but in Kings I 8:10: וְהֶעָנָן מָלֵא אֶת־בֵּית יְהֹוָה ("and the cloud filled the Lord's house").
Any way to tell which direction is meant, without relying on context?
The lexicon says, for the passive meaning, "usually c. acc. material", and for the active meaning "trans.", but I don't see how one could possibly differentiate between a regular transitive accusative and an accusative of meaning.

And מִלֵּא (pi'el) specifically means "he/it filled" only? I'm asking because these verbs were introduced in Aleph with Beth to illustrate Binyanim, and it strikes me as a really bad and confusing choice for that. I would have expected pi'el to simply be an intensifier for pa'al, instead of (partially) switching voice.

>>22241720
> accusative of meaning
Meant to type accusative of material, of course.

>>22240488
>>22240502
thx for the in depth answer; because I came to the idea of reading Plato both because of my interest in Greek purely as a language and also some interest in philosophy I kinda wanted to get the best of both worlds by approaching him in Greek after having read much of the pre-Socratic stuff in the original as much as possible, though since it's something I do as a hobby I'll probably use modern resources in any case, I'm also reading Latin and doing other non classics related stuff so it's gonna be a long journey
right now I'm going to read my Homeric works anyway, almost done with the Iliad

how do i learn athematics bros

>>22242259
By lots of reading and repetition.

>>22241720
>pic
Damn what happened to the Yemeni Jewry? Are they still around in the 21st century?

>>22233624
>No Mesopotamian languages
>Iceland
>Russian

Also replace Coptic with Ancient Egyptian

>>22242338
Went to Israel.

>>22242349
>No Mesopotamian languages
I see Sumerian in there.

>>22242349
Also Icelandic is definitely a classical language. It's just modern Norse, Icelanders can read the Edda just fine.
Russian is more debatable.

>>22242408
How does one go about learning Icelandic?

Reminder that there have only been five significant languages in the world, and that they are Greek, Latin, Arabic, Sanskrit, Chinese.

>>22243063
Six*. Greek, Latin, Arabic, Sanskrit, Chinese, and English.

>>22243136
Form an intelligent English sentence without using Greek or Latin.

>>22243136
>>22243152
Let's put this in broader perspective.
English loans proliferate worldwide. But form an intelligent French, Modern Greek, Arabic, Hindi, or Chinese sentence without English loans. Easy, for now.
Now do the same in any of those languages without using the linguistic heritages they draw from.

>>22243163
I admit Arabic without Aramaic would be poor off.

classical language is very fatiguing. i read a few paragraphs. then i must rest.

>>22241622
I'm like halfway through the exeter book already. Just finished the fenix.

m-mr orberg, sir...

>>22243715
> interea domi auctoris fili

>>22243715
ego infra

>>22243715
>>22243753
>>22243758
Dirty minds.

>>22243417
>sentence doesn't click immediately
>hide book tab, mindlessly click on something else, brain goes elsewhere
>try again looking up book
>rinse and repeat few times
>eventually it clicks
it often do be like dat

Learning Latin is worth it.

>>22243152
Fuck you

>>22243152
That's the easiest thing in the whole wide world. Just about everyone can do it and they do it all the time.

Salvete Amici

>>22245095
Γρεετινγσ ΝΙΓΓΕΡ! Χαίρετε πωωπωω πεεπεε!

>>22245095
Salve, calve amice!

>>22245095
>SALWAY AMEEKEY, QWOHMOHDOH TWO TAY HABAYS?

>>22245759
>Addressing a singular person
>Ameekey

>>22228086
Salve, sum Rōmānus

What is the difference between modern Hebrew and Biblical Hebrew?

luke won.

>>22246865
Who?

>>22246865
Nice try, that's clearly just him in drag with caterpillars on his face.

>βλάξ is the word for "stupid"

Hey anons who are good at Greek: how much did you read before you only had to look up the dictionary occasionally?

>>22247216
Romanian bros...

>>22228424
P A P O R W E I G H V E

The Vulgate is really a lot easier to read than the Vetus Latina corpus huh.
Not only was Jerome aiming for accessibility, he was also an outstanding writer.

>>22247550
I am learning Latin only for the Vulgate, so I am not aware when the latinity differs from the Ciceronian norm of Classical Latin grammar. I don’t mind being ignorant as long as the words mean what was written in the original texts. Some argue that Jerome was too close in following said texts and that it created unnatural Latin that didn’t fit the Latin idiom. I think the Vulgate is beautiful on it’s own though, so I’m content with it. The pain in the ass though is the undeclined proper names, which also at times are far from what these names would have actually sounded like, but this is likely also a problem in the manuscripts he was copying from.

Sebastian Castellio rewrote the bible in classical Latin I wonder if any Greekoid autismatched him and rewrote the Koine one into polished Attic

>>22247257
a lot

>>22248367
Blasphemy. The Greek originals can never change.
There is, however, Nonnus' 5th-century setting of the Gospel of John into heroic hexameter. Very typical of Greek of that period. I consider it an acquired taste at best.
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/04z/z_0390-0429__Nonnos__Metaphrasis_Evangelii_Ioannei__%28CSHB%29__GR.pdf.html

>>22247965
An earnest effort appears to have been made to faithfully render indeclinable names of foreign origin into Greek within the limitations of its orthography.

Ἀαρών (Aharon), Ἀβραάμ (Avraham), Βενιαμίν (Benyamin), Βηθλέεμ (Bethlehem), Δαυίδ (Dawid), Γαβριήλ (Gavri'el), Γαμαλιήλ (Gamali'el), Γολιάθ (Golyath), Ἐφραΐμ (Efrayim), Ἰεσσαί (Yeshshai), Ἰεφθάε (Yefthah), Ἰσαάκ (Yis'haq), Ἰσμαήλ (Yishmael), Ἰσραήλ (Yisra'el), Ἰουδά (Yuhudah), Ἰώβ (Iyov), Ἰωσήφ (Yosef), Κάϊν (Qayin), Μαριάμ (Maryam), Μελχισέδεκ (Melkhisedeq), Μιχαήλ (Mikha'el), Ναηαπάνα (Nahapana), Ῥαχήλ (Rhakhel), Ῥουβήν (Rhuven), Ῥούθ (Rhuth), Σαβαώθ (Savaoth), Σαδώκ (Sadoq), Σαμουήλ (Shamu'el), Σαούλ (Sha'ul), Σιών (Siyon).

>>22248403
I’m told the original Greek in Mark, for example, is rudimentary at best in some instances. I know no Greek, though…

>>22248491
Could be by association with it also being the "rudimentary" gospel compared to the other 3 with Revelation known for being among the books with the worst grammar.

>>22246865
There's no way a chick like that settles for a language tutor; women are biologically programmed to parlay their fast depreciating pussy into tangible assets. She's just monkey branching off of him to boost her youtube stats and become an "influencer" and get discovered by the algorithm.

>t. I wish I was wrong

>>22248666
he's rich from youtube and military benefits

>>22228086
What language would be the third classical language after Latin and Greek? Egyptian or Sanskrit would be my guess.

>>22248666
go outside lol

>>22240153
Find a Hebrew dictionary to look it up. It's very likely to be correct. If it has planar vowels, remove them.

>>22241477
>the precursor to the unpredictable chaos that is modern English they sure seem way too certain.
They might be too certain, but Modern English is a lot more predictable and regular than people will have you believe.

>>22248717
Sanskrit and not even close. Arabic and Chinese in 4th and 5th. After that, languages like Persian and even Hebrew would still be higher than Egyptian. Egypt as a culture was highly influential, but it's literature was not.

This may be due to the fact that:
1. the writing system was cumbersome and not usually adopted by foreigners. Even foreign rulers didnt bother to learn to speak it let alone write it.
2. Writing was mostly done by scribes and not something as used among it's own populations like Greek which even petty merchants could read.
3. It didn't maintain a continual literary tradition up until the modern era like the top 5 I mentioned. It was basically already dead 2,000 years ago.
4. Nobody can name any major works in it besides scholars. Even "the Book of the Dead" isn't an actual book, but one of many personalized papyri funeral texts that a person would have written for their afterlife.
5. Even Coptic had less influence because of how compartmentalized Orthodox patristics is. Many Egyptian Orthodox fathers are not read much outside of Alexandria compared to Greek and even Syriacs.

>>22248717
If you want a more rounded trio it would be Greek, Sanskrit, and literary Chinese. Egyptian would be more of an ancient language than a classical one in terms of its religious and historical texts barring the Coptic stage with its works dealing with the likes of magic and gnosticism. Persian is an underrated language of the middle ages to the early modern period.

>>22247965
>Some argue that Jerome was too close in following said texts and that it created unnatural Latin that didn’t fit the Latin idiom
Read the Septuagint. It's just like Jerome’s Vulgate, very Semitic.

>>22247965
>>22248777
The liturgical Syriac bible text in turn follows the syntax of the Greek New Testament to the point of unnaturalness at times, compared to older Syriac versions of the gospels.

>>22248779
>>22247965
The liturgical Syriac bible text in turn follows the syntax of the Greek New Testament to the point of unnaturalness at times, compared to older Syriac versions of the gospels.

>>22248773
> writing system was cumbersome and not usually adopted by foreigners. Even foreign rulers didnt bother to learn to speak it let alone write it.
This is not true. Hieroglyphs led to Proto-Sinaitic, which led to nearly every writing system in use today. Foreigners liked Egyptian just fine.
>Writing was mostly done by scribes and not something as used among it's own populations like Greek which even petty merchants could read.
Demotic Egyptian was a script of the people. It's in the name. I wouldn't expect the Egyptian population to be less literate than the Greeks. With the abundance of funerary texts, I would expect them to be more literate. What evidence do you have to suggest that reading and writing was limited to a single class, scribes, at the same time Greek was being written and read by merchants?

>>22248759
Prove it.

>>22248807
>This is not true. Hieroglyphs led to Proto-Sinaitic, which led to nearly every writing system in use today. Foreigners liked Egyptian just fine.
Proto-Sinatic is derived from Egyptian, but that doesn't mean people in the near east outside of Egypt were using Hieroglyphs. Germanic runes and the Gothic script come from Greek. That doesn't mean vikings could read Greek. It means one person who could made their own variant and THEN tought it to more people. This is literally how the Russians got Cyrillic. It's fucking named after the one guy who developed it.
>Demotic Egyptian was a script of the people. It's in the name.
Again not used outside of Egypt. Latin was used extensively outside of Italy. Greek was used extensively outside of Greece. Same with Arabic, Sanskrit, and literary Chinese. We are talking about classical languages and Demotic is probably the least studied by even Egyptiologists.

PLEASE read what I was replying to before you reply to me. What was I replying to? Someone who asked what would be the 3rd classical language. Why on earth would that be fucking Demotic Egyptian over Sanskirt, Arabic, or Chinese? Are you fucking retarded or something?

>>22248807
Quite possibly the worst non-Latin related take I've ever seen on /clg/.

>>22246865
I always assumed he was gay

>>22246351
Absolutely no difference. It's just a joke.

>>22246351
Modern Hebrew phonology and grammar are more simplified. The received Tiberian phonology is more suited for determining what the language could have sounded like between the period of the second temple to late antiquity but less so for what it may have been like before that.

>>22249699
The phonetics are simplified. The phonological rules and phonotactics are however vastly more complex, with considerable variation for a language that has barely been spoken for over hundred years. The same is incidentally true for Modern Greek, where surface phonetic representations vary considerably from phoneme representations.
Phonetics and phonology are not the same thing.

>>22228086
Are there any antologies or dictionaries filled only with interesting words from Ancient Greece?
Like the ones used in science or religion?

>>22249999
μὰ τὸν Δία δεδόρκετε τοιούσδ' ἀριθμούς!

This is a stupid question, but for a deponent verb, can there be a subject? Like random sentence I came up with "ο πεζικοσ επεται τον βασιλεα" how would you write this?

>>22250289
of course, they can even have direct objects, the only difference is the meaning doesn't correspond to the limited sort of basic scheme of active/passive we're used to, in particular the middle voice broadly carries the meaning of an action having effects on both subject and object
your example though ἕπομαι normally takes the dative of the thing/person being followed, not the accusative

>>22249839
I'm just a layman honestly but the knowledge of these topics is getting across irrespective of semantic accuracy.

>>22250315
thank you

>>22248717
The main classical languages of the world are Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Arabic and Classical Chinese. In terms of influence on the West, Arabic would come after Latin and Greek. In terms of PIE linguistics, Sanskrit would be the one after Greek and Latin.

>Pronounced an english word in a latin way and got confused

>>22238600
>'Graeca est, non legitur'
It's greek, it cannot be read
Or something like that, probably did spelling errors, don't speak latin

>>22250845
Graecum est, nec potest legi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graecum_est,_non_legitur
I found it!

>>22237325
Yup, the book is totally usable as a reader /primer if you can't read Italian, but you'll need to get your grammar from somewhere and have to look up the words instead of using the glosses.

Just started learning Latin a couple days ago. How long until I can expect to be able to read Tacitus?

>>22251400
1 month, he's the easiest author in the corpus

>>22251400
eh, there's "reading" and reading, depends on how many times you are willing to dig into the dictionary for each sentence kek
few months to a year or so, depending on the effort, Tacitus isn't easy, I followed someone's advice back then and from Caesar I read some Sallust first since IIRC the latter influenced Tacitus' style while being easier

>>22251400
Similar question here, just started Attica Greek from the English Athenaze 2 days ago. How long until I can read Plato?

>>22251466
see this anon's reply >>22240502
in few months you could be starting, all up to you and your willingness to go however slow or fast you wish

wtf was bregans problem

What should I read once I'm done with the greek historians? I've read Herodotus, Thucydides and Xenophon, but I'm not sure what would be a fitting follow up. I'm thinking Arrian, Plutarch or Pausanias. Thoughts?

>>22251603
>cur Bregans fessus est? Quia vagina ei non est!

Quick question: does the vowel in a long position (i.e. before two specific consonants) always get a macron? It seems since it’s a long vowel by position giving it a macron would be redundant. I see things like “māgnus” and I don’t see why it is so. Some dictionaries differ in their application of macrons on words like this, and I don’t know which is authoritative.

Dative of purpose or ablative of respect, /clg/?

Ablative of respect: specifies in what respect the action is done.
>If you hadn't come to us in help.
Dative of purpose: indicates the purpose of the action, often with a dative of the person or thing affected.
>If you hadn't come to help us.
Potestisne vere Latinitatem habere diceri, nisi has subtilitates linguae intellegitis? Agite, operam facite mihi.

>>22251839
Bump for this

>>22251603
aqua foeda est

What's the best online Latin dictionary?

ye olde ingurlish

>>22241293
whoever made this (he obviously read and studied all of them) must be some really smart guy, I hope he has written something good of his own.

>>22253107
the Lewis & Short dictionaries are available for free, elementary and unabridged, at https://archli.com/dictionaries or https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text.jsp?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0059

>>22241293
why no hesiod?

>>22252088
definitely double dative construction I think, purpose + reference

>>22251891
you want to check this out https://alatius.com/latin/bennetthidden.html
the question is about 'hidden quality'

>>22251839
Josephus, Polybius, Plutarch definitely. Maybe Diogenes Laertius. Maybe move on to some Byzantine historians. I know the Alexiad is in very Atticized Greek.

>>22228086
Compared to learning a living language, how time comsuming is it to learn a classical language?
Is having a vocabulary that changes throughout the centuries really that much of a pain in the ass?
I already have learned several non indo european "hard" languages so it can't possibly be that cumbersome to study something like Latin and Greek can it?

I'm nearly finished Wheelock's. While I can usually handle the practice sentences well enough, I struggle a lot with the genuine pieces of classical Latin. The word order and grammar is usually slightly different. Will this just be solved by reading more Latin in general?

>>22254198
Yes that's everyone's first experience, you basically just got handed a toolbelt and pointed in the direction of a broken down barn with rusty nails with AIDS on them, and a subscription card to the local lumber yard

In six months you will have AIDS and a new but shitty looking barn, and then in 2 years you'll be able to build barns from scratch.

>>22254198
Yes
>>22254143
depends on how much you put into it but worth the effort
not really, core words stay the same
get a good dictionary, you will need it forever

>>22254198
I think that's kinda the point with those kind of traditional books, you get the basic know how to start reading the super easy authors, and by reading those you are going to start internalizing the fundamentals and improving with more complex grammar. You can in fact make things smoother/easier using even simpler intermediate readers.

I got into Latin and did a bit of Dooge and LLPSI but stopped due to life. Now I want to get back in track but have already filled the hole of free time with philosophy. Should take a while to finish that. Any anons have experience studying only a few minutes a day? Does it work?

>>22254305
>get a good dictionary, you will need it forever
>forever
starting to really hate learning languages

>>22250765
It's like Latin and Greek are better researched than Eastern languages in the West so they can be of less fulfillment or satisfaction on average to many prospective learners from a Western culture who still feel desirous of something more foreign.

Arabic is mainly relevant to Islamic doctrine, but to the average Westerner, this is probably sufficiently acquirable to them through a translation. What does tend to be the commonly alluring to such individuals coming from a secularized modern society is the Sufi traditions of the Islamic world, which are largely written about in Dari/New Persian rather. Sanskrit on the other hand, which also represents yet another field that the West has greater need of research in, seems to have an ampler variety of literature from multiple religions whose influence had been transmitted to prominent renditions of religious texts in other languages of the Eastern world, compared to something like the other way around in regard to the likes of literary Chinese, the language of which should otherwise be of greater intrigue to Sinophiles of any background.

לָמָּה אָשׁוּב אֶל־הַמָּקוֹם הַזֶּה

>>22254316
>studying only a few minutes a day?
D'ooge is the perfect book for that because it has so many small bite-sized chapters. I just finished it for the 2nd time to refresh and it was entirely doable while I was under stress and didn't have much free time. LLPSI is another story because the longer you take to finish it the more you forget, the more you forget the more you have to read, the more you have to reread the more you will get bored and hate it. Just finish D'ooge and then blaze through Orberg. Don't even read the first 10 chapters if you have finished a real textbook. Just read 11-34. I've reread so many chapters and it honestly wasn't worth it. If it takes you longer than a few months to finish it, I think the amount of time it takes to read outweighs the actual benefits.

i'm currently learning greek and have a tunic and sandals that i wear every time i study, it helps out
whats some other greek stuff i can put in my room or wear to larp?

>>22255404
altar to you know who

Just gonna point out that I'm probably the only poster ITT who poured a libation of expensive French wine at the Temple of Poseidon on Cape Sounion.

>>22255491
Good. The rest of us don't worship false gods.

>>22255506
I bet you worship YHWH aka the demiurge though

>>22254727
i;ve been working on LLPSI for 3 years

>>22255550
Fr tho? Wheelock's took me one month and LLPSI three, think your goofy ah just slow cuh

>>22255513
I do worship the one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen, and in the one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.

I've never read an LLPSI chapter more than once

>>22255558
Why do demoralization discord troons have to invade *every* thread on every fucking board at once? You gross mixed up fags do not blend in.

>>22255791
they're literally so mentally ill that they think they're accomplishing something by pissing in the ocean of piss.

>>22255550
You have at least engaged with real texts, though, right? You haven't just spent 3 years reading purely LLPSI and LLPSI alone, right?

After reading this thread I believe that fluency in at least one modern foreign language should be prerequisite for posting here. That or a real teacher. So many of you seem so intent on remaining beginners forever.

>>22255550
That's alright if there are other things going on in your life, but I hope you've tried cracking something else, or sought out other books and/or a teacher.

>>22255791
>demoralization discord troons
Kekeke take your meds schizo. If you're "demoralized" by someone telling you you're slow then you weren't worth much to begin with.

>>22255900
I think the turnover rate would be too high. Although dead threads are better than low-quality ones.

>>22255900
One should take a look at multiple translations of texts from a language you're curious about beforehand, to gauge how much interest it inspires to justify going further with it.

>>22256133
One would think that everyone had read at least Apology plus a second-rate translation of Homer in school. One would think, but I've seen what the kids are up to these days and even that seems to be asking a lot.

>clg goes dead in burger hours
many such cases

>>22257036
this is a good thing

>>22255571
>I do worship the one God
>and in the one Lord

>>22254616
Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning; let us solace ourselves with loves. For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey: He hath taken a bag of money with him; he will come home at the full moon.

>nunc venit
>tunc vēnit
>nunc reprehendit
>tunc reprehendit
quō vōcālis longa vāsit?

>>22257654
haud reor pote legem quamlubet inveniri ut praeteritorum radices singillatim a radice praesentis deduci possint; sunt sane aliquot leges, sed etsi venio vēn- praebet, ago ēg-, etc... sunt quoque aliquot verba quorum praeteritorum radices saepe eaedem sunt ac praesentium

Not sure if this is the place to ask, but does anyone have any recs on books to learn about Roman culture? Not military history and stuff like that, but the more social and cultural aspects of the Roman people.

What's baby's first Old English text? Like what Caesar is to Latin and Xenophon is to Greek.

>>22255491
If the gods want my wine, they need to tell me so.

>>22255550
It takes as long as it takes. I've been at it on and off for six years now and I still feel like a dump ape.

>>22258060
>What's baby's first Old English text? Like what Caesar is to Latin and Xenophon is to Greek.
The corpus is too small to have the equivalent easy texts. You will be learning to read Beowulf with some selections from Bede's poetry, Caedmon's Hymn, & the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. There's almost nothing to read in the language so you don't have much to choose from.

>>22258101
>LLPSI
>Six years
The length of time redditors are willing to take to avoid just reading a grammar primer in a month or two and then moving on with their fucking lives.

>>22258101
My fucking god, how do you even use the book? Do you reread every chapter dozens of times?

>>22258060
I'd like to know this for Literary Chinese. It seems like Analects would be an obvious candidate.

>>22258134
he wants to dream in latin bro

>>22257082
>Hebrews 1:1-4 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

While He declares Himself to be One, he proposes himself to be distinctly considered in three persons. When Paul denominates the Son the express image of the hypostasis of the Father, he ascribes to the Father some subsistence, in which he differs from the Son. This word "hypostasis" (ὑπόστασις) is not synonymous with essence (ουσία), as some people have implied, as if Christ, like wax impressed with a seal, represented in himself the substance of the Father. The essence of God being simple and indivisible, Christ, who contains all in himself, not in part, or by derivation, but in complete perfection, could not, without absolute logical contradiction, be called the express image of it, but since the Father, although distinguished by his own particular property, expressed himself entirely in his Son, it is with good reason asserted that he has made his hypostasis conspicuous in him. The other title, given to him in the same passage, of “the brightness of his glory,” exactly corresponds to this. From the words of Paul, we conclude that there is in the Father a proper hypostasis, which is conspicuous in the Son. And furthermore, we also infer the hypostasis of the Son, which distinguishes him from the Father. This same reasoning is applicable to the Holy Spirit.

>>22258115
>>22258134
Obviously I'm not just reading LLPSI over and over, you autists. I was speaking more generally about learning Latin.

>>22258199
be prepared to have your post screenshotted and reposted out of context from here on out to prove how dumb people who use LLPSI are and shut down any and all arguments

>>22258289
>shut down any and all arguments
Thanks for giving us the blueprint to finally solve this problem.

>>22246351
I will mention some interesting differences not mentioned by >>22249839
Unified pronunciation and writing rules (there exists the Academy of Hebrew language which also create new words).
Forms of some verbs come from the latest stage of living ancient Hebrew - Mishnaic Hebrew, לומר instead of לאמור. The verb structure is also similar to Mishnaic - prefix conjugation works as the future tense, suffix as past and פועל conjugation as present tense.
The imperative is used only in about 20-30 verbs like שב or קום, in other cases the future tense is used.

>>22241720
Which lexicon do you use?
The word מָלֵא is actually two different words - adjective מָלֵא from the root מל"א in פעל - to be full, and verb from the same root in the same.
Pi'el (and its analogies in other Semitic languages like D stem in Akkadian or فعّل [II class]), when applied to stative verbs (like to be full), change their meaning to transitive, e.g. למד to learn לימד to teach, חלה to be sick חילה to cause someone to be sick etc. Also, Akkadian balatum to be healty and ballatum to make someone healthy.
I strongly recommend people to learn Israeli Hebrew first, as it is simpler and the best grammars and dictionaries of Biblical Hebrew are written in Hebrew.
4chan prevents me from posting this, thinking my post is spam.

Greekbros...I'm getting demoralized. I've been at it for a good 7 months and
I can barely read Xenophon without a Loeb, and he's supposedly one of the easiest authors.
How long did it take you to git gud?

>>22258591
> Which lexicon do you use?
BDB and Genesius

> The word מָלֵא is actually two different words - adjective מָלֵא from the root מל"א in פעל - to be full, and verb from the same root in the same.
That I know, my question was purely about the verb, with seemingly two contrary meanings that are hard to distinguish grammatically:
Note that in my second example (Kings I 8:10), the verb means "to fill", not "to be filled", even though it's pa'al.

But I think I've got it now:
The name of the term "direct object marker" (אֶת) says it's used for objects of transitive verbs, not necessarily for all accusatives!
So if a definite noun X that looks like the object of מָלֵא has the marker, then one can interpret it as "to fill X", otherwise possibly* as "to be filled by X".
This is not foolproof, but that there is a grammatical distinction at all at least explains how that dictionary entry came to be.
Does that make sense?

* I've only now seen that Genesius has another "to fill" subjection where the verb takes two accusatives, but let's not go there.

> Pi'el (and its analogies in other Semitic languages like D stem in Akkadian or فعّل [II class]), when applied to stative verbs (like to be full), change their meaning to transitive, e.g. למד to learn לימד to teach, חלה to be sick חילה to cause someone to be sick etc. Also, Akkadian balatum to be healty and ballatum to make someone healthy.
Thanks, that's interesting and makes the example seem a little less of a bad choice. Though I'm still critical of it due to the ambiguity I mentioned above.

> I strongly recommend people to learn Israeli Hebrew first, as it is simpler and the best grammars and dictionaries of Biblical Hebrew are written in Hebrew.
Can you name them, please? Even if I don't switch right now, would be nice to have something to look forward to, once I tackle Modern.
I was under the impression that the best Biblical dictionaries were BDB and HALOT (both English), and the best grammar Genesius (German), maybe to be superseded by Khan (English) in the future.

>>22258060
>>22258110
>>22258135
I know neither OE nor CC, but shouldn't chronicles, as a rule, be easier to read?
For OE, I would think that The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle is the easiest, especially if one knows the Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum.
And for CC, I would be interested to hear about some of the twenty-four histories (二十四史). They must be easier than Confucius' gnomic sayings, no?

>>22228086
People who try to speak Greek without being Greek are cringe
Notable exception are the chinese

>>22258885
Greeks don't exist anymore so that's a tall order you're asking of us

>>22258896
This but anglo-saxons and proto-indo-europeans

>>22258841
idk because I took my time before touching real literature, didn't rush it, I read Xenophon only 1.5/2 years after starting since I did Athenaze(full with Anki deck) + Morice's reader(also with Anki deck)
still though when I read Xenophon I needed the english parallel sometimes

I'm making good progress on my Latin bros. Being bilingual already makes learning a third language so much easier.

>>22258906
The Norman chad changed the course of English civilisation and altered their culture forever, but that doesn't mean Anglo-Saxon stock is gone. Greek stock is definitely gone though.

>>22258926
You can't find more than 40% anglo-saxon dna in modern bongs. likewise you can't find any significant amount of norman dna in them either
sorry anon, the larp is over. A mexican is more European than any bong is anglo-saxon
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36131019/

>>22259036
>t. mexican

>>22258864
>Can you name them, please? Even if I don't switch right now, would be nice to have something to look forward to, once I tackle Modern.
מילון העברית המקראית written by מנחם צבי קדרי is a very good dictionary. As to the grammar, I'm interested in the history of teaching Hebrew, so I've never read modern (written after XIXth century) Hebrew grammar in Hebrew, but I can ask Israeli friends.

>So if a definite noun X that looks like the object of מָלֵא has the marker, then one can interpret it as "to fill X", otherwise possibly* as "to be filled by X".
I think you are right, I admit that I haven't focused on your examples, just got the idea that they are 2 words from the same root without checking it first.

>>22259168
> מילון העברית המקראית written by מנחם צבי קדרי
Thanks. Came across this nice list of dictionaries while looking for that one:
https://ancienthebrewpoetry.typepad.com/ancient_hebrew_poetry/2007/02/a_brief_guide_t.html

Should I worry about how I'm pronouncing the ancient Greek letters? For the most part I think I'm fine, however, take eta for example: the word itself is pronounced eeta. In the English Athenaze it says it's pronounced as the e in "bed" which is a short e. However, I found a video online which says eta is a long e whereas epsilon is a short e. Also, is there a significant difference in pronunciation between Attica Greek and other types?

>>22259326
in terms of «quality» it's indeed like the e in standard received english 'bed', whereas epsilon is the sound Australians make for the same word, so open vs closed sound, IPA [ε] vs [e], see https://www.ipachart.com/ (n.b it's a bit confusing since IPA uses the epsilon symbol to represent the open sound which in ancient Greek is represented by eta, whereas it uses the Latin [e] for the closed sound represented in ancient Greek by epsilon)
in terms of quantity it's always long of course

>>22259376
Thank you

>>22259326
Probably providing some degree of contrast is ideal. I like to follow modern Greek pronunciation for consonants, but employ greater contrast or variety of sounds when it comes to vowels, diphthongs, and consonant clusters by deferring to certain of the reconstructed sounds throughout the different historical stages of the language. Here's a chart the Lukester provided with reconstructions for different time periods. I feel that given the use of certain letters to render velarized consonants in foreign loan words or names, that it might suggest the velarized pronunciation of such sounds occurred earlier than may be assumed.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fv46XgPPJy-ky9FUSApiemOVmtc8i6q7ZL5XkqtmMWA/edit

>Versiculos in me narratur scribere Cinna.
>Non scribit, cuius carmina nemo legit!
It feels reassuring to know that the Romans were as petty as us

>>22259610
huh?

>>22258841
Just keep at it. you are learning an ancient language alone, it won't be easy, there will be ups and downs. A year from now you will breeze through texts that are giving you trouble today.
Don't bother with asking how long it takes, just do it if you want to.

>>22233624
Good enough but don't let's forget English. Swift and Shakespeare at least have attained the status of classics.

>>22260151
>don't let's forget English
bro???

>>22238768
>ἄντεινον αἰ λῇς: ὡς παχεῖα καὶ καλά.
You have to understand that every Athenian man was exactly half homosexual.

>>22260187
nothing wrong with that, unless you're an ESL who hasn't read much.

>>22255513
In the NT, Jesus claims to be I am, aka אהיה, from אהיה אשר אהיה fame. Simply put, that's Yahweh.

>>22260253
>III. Classical ·noun Of or pertaining to the ancient Greeks and Romans, ·esp. to Greek or Roman authors of the highest rank, or of the period when their best literature was produced; of or pertaining to places inhabited by the ancient Greeks and Romans, or rendered famous by their deeds.
English is not classical, and neither is Russian for that matter or any of that nonsense.

>>22260278
i thought you were criticizing his use of 'don't let's'.

>>22260338
everyone knows it means "don't let us" nigga stfu

>>22260479
yeah, alright. so you are an ESL.

>>22260495
and you're a drooling retard

>>22260253
my man, everything we have to read nowadays is written in your bugman language

>>22260523
I have never heard anyone say 'don't let's'. Did a nigger write that entry?

>>22260523
>reading comprehension zero

>>22260600
>I misinterpreted your post so I'm going to reply with vague one-liners until you get bored!
congrats, I already am

How am I supposed to read Latin poetry if I haven't memorized long vowels?

I hate latincels

>>22260634
If you haven't learned the basic rules of which vowels CAN be long, do that, and then find stuff with less variable metres, like Ovid or Propertius (i.e. where the foot is always either a dactyl or a spondee), so you can use the poetry to learn the quantities.

>>22260634
Read medieval poetry that isn't cringe

>Sanskrit is dea-
https://youtu.be/-gZ5i7dtIMo

>>22261334
dead and irrelevant.

>>22260634
https://hypotactic.com/latin/

>>22260634
start with the hexameter, pick Virgil or whatever, begin by manually scanning it line by line until the meter feels natural to you, eventually it's the meter which is going to tell you in 99% of the cases where long vowels are since they have to fit into the scheme; I also didn't pay much attention to vowel length when I began, regrettably, but eventually I read all the Aeneid and from book 4 onwards I didn't even need to scan it to get the meter right for 95%+ of the lines

>>22260560
Is there an LLPSI equivalent for English? If so you should read it.

>>22261334
Indians are so lifelike and human seeming compared to Chinese

>>22262068
>heard
wise words from a retard who can't understand a 4chan post

Decided to test ChatGPT. I gave it Κῦρον δὲ μεταπέμπεται ἀπὸ τῆς ἀρχῆς ἧς αὐτὸν σατράπην
ἐποίησε and it translated it as But he is sending for himself Cyrus from the beginning of the rule which he made him a satrap. AIBros...

>>22262072
You've never even met a Chinese person in your life. Way to let propaganda inform your "le based" opinions.

>>22262099
So what you're saying is he saw it without having heard it despite complaining that a "nigger wrote that entry" yet still felt the need to comment about his auditory ignorance of the written expression?

>>22262068
"Don't let us" sounds more natural - it sounds like American cowboy talk - "now boys, don't let us have to take thing where none of us wants to." It's like the difference between saying - "I don't want you in my house" and "I do not want you in my house." The second can be far more harsh/serious.

Can some anons give me advice on past ought statements in Latin?
I know a present ought statement would involve something like "he must to go" (ire debet) as a verb. But if I wanted to make that past tense, as in "he must have gone." would I make debeo perfect tense, just ire, or both?

>>22262289
"debeo" used this way isn't even particularly classical; either use the gerundive + past of being or verbs like oportet, hence, for the past, oportuit eum ....

ἔσχον ατυχήν ὅτι ἐγενόμην ἀνήρ εν τῷ σώμᾰτῐ, αλλα γυνή εν τῇ ψῡχῇ...

>>22262124
"AI will render learning languages usel-ACK"

>>22257652
אֵלַ אִם־אֵלַיִךְ

>>22257652
אֵלַי אִם־אֵלַיִךְ

i was almost sight reading for a minute

>>22260560
I don't see why not. It's a perfectly cromulent phrase.

>>22262002
I'm getting the hang of scansion. Following a few simple rules is easy. But I still have no idea what it is supposed to sound like.

>>22262307
Not him but can you even use the gerundive that way? They're future passive participles, so in his example you wouldn't be able to use eundus to mean ire debet (past tense). Wouldn't a fore ut construction work?

ducentidemille
centidemille

>>22263221
>They're future passive participles
wat
in classical Latin one of the basic meanings of the gerundives is to express obligation, e.g the very famous Carthago delenda est, which could be immediately adapted to Carthago delenda fuit if one were talking about a past ought/obligation to destroy it

>>22263246
Yes, but that's still a passive statement, "Carthage is to be destroyed". "Praedo eundus est" would mean "the pirate must be gone" which doesn't sound idiomatic to me.

>>22263275
the impersonal construction + dative expresses active obligation to someone
but sure, in the case specifically of the verb "to go", "eundus/-um" wouldn't be particularly idiomatic I guess, better maybe oportet/oportuit ire ....

>>22262289
As >>22262307 pointed out, oportet works. So do related constructions like opus/fas/necesse est + dative.
But I think the most eloquent way to express that would be the hortatory subjunctive. Allen and Greenough § 439.b:
>The imperfect and pluperfect of the Hortatory Subjunctive denote an unfulfilled obligation in past time.
>Morerētur, inquiēs. (Rab. Post. 29)
>He should have died, you will say.
>Potius docēret. (Off. 3.88)
>He should rather have taught.
>Nē poposcissēs. (Att. 2.1.3)
>You should not have asked.
>Saltem aliquid dē pondere dētrāxisset (Fin. 4.57)
>At least he should have taken something from the weight.
Using the verb eo:
>Heu! Isset frater meus, ne a Troianis interfectus esset!
Alas! My brother should have gone, so that he wouldn't have been killed by the Trojans!

>>22263377
>>22262307
Thanks anons, that helps.

>>22263185
worst case you can try calquing this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI0mkt6Z3I0
even if it's Greek you can ignore the words and get a feeling of the rhythm of the hexameter by reciting over it until it clicks, meter is the same

>>22264228
I don't understand. The first four feet of a hexameter can be a dactyl or a spondee. So that's 16 different permutations. Unless the latin poem I'm reading follows the exact same permutations as the greek in that recording, how is it helpful to mimic it?

>>22264379
follow the rhythm, not the pronunciation

>>22258176
Tldr

finna bump

>>22265071
But the rhythm changes from line to line?

Do you guys use the Erasmian pronunciation for ancient Greek ? If yes. Why ?

>>22266795
>Greek pronunciation
Use modern so women won't laugh at you.

ganw tis manes sas

>>22266913
Why would someone learning Greek care about women?

>>22262342
>autogynephile
ngmi

>>22266921
true only incels bother learning greek

>>22266767
what changes is the combination of dactyls/spondees but given that the latter replaces simply two shorts with a long, the length of each feet stays the same, you should try to hear this fixed pattern, using the first syllable of each feet as an anchor since they are always long
the first line of the youtube link posted has the structure
LL-LL-LSS-LL-LSS-LL
which is the same as this line(31) from book I of the Aeneid
arcēbat longē Latiō, multōsque per annōs
try to calque it

>>22266913
>every other vowel an /i/
natural pussy repellent

>>22266921
Have you been to Greece? The women there are worth it: they look stunningly beautiful and healthy, and they're also extremely friendly, always smiling at you.
Spent a month there in May 2022. Between the beauty of the monuments, the peaceful atmosphere of the Saronic Islands, and the hospitable population, I didn't want to go back home.
First woman I saw when I landed back in France was an obese store clerk. She could've been cute by losing a few kilos. She smiled at me too, but it was a far cry from the Hellenic smile I'd become used to over the preceding weeks. How I miss my Greek angels.

>>22266913
have fun not being able to read poetry

>>22267103
I unironically will do this exactly.

>THESEVS ET MINOTAVRVS

>>22267262
Theseus is literally me, down to the part where he dumps that bitch on an island lmao

>>22267276
>Ariadna igitur in lītus dēscendit atque hūc et illūc currēns multīs cum lacrimīs capillum et vestem scindēbat
lady in the maze, freak in the rays

>>22267262
>>22267276
Disappointing how the book just glanced over how the Minotaur was conceived.

NOVUM
>>22267360
>>22267360
>>22267360

>>22267103
From where does the Erasmian pronunciation come from ? Why was that pronunciation created ? Wasn't the diacritic system created around the Hellenistic period ? Ancient Greek did not have any form of diacritics before that.

>>22258135
With Literary Chinese, it depends. Something like the Dao De Jing will be really oblique and hard to figure out for beginners. Parts of Zhuangzi are relatively easy, but other parts are incomprehensible to first timers. The first books of the Analects are pretty easy in comparison, but I would say maybe try Mencius or the Liezi. Look for something that's more long form so it doesn't have as many stylistic, poetic constraints. Confucius' sayings in isolation will be harder than dialogues in the Mencius if you keep a dictionary handy.