/lit/ - Literature

>>22415078
A publisher personally sought out my friend over his obscure, dropped web serial in order to offer free money for the publishing rights.
Doomcrabs BTFO.

>>22415105
Just goes to show you that it's not that they can't find you

Some sci-fi. Thoughts?

>want to post erotic writing
>pastebin autofilters me
What do?

>>22415243
Put it in a .txt file and upload it to catbox

>>22415220
cut the following phrases
underneath him
-he can't quite make out where-

also voices don't beckon, use a different word. Somewhere overhead a woman's voice shushes softly. "Sh-sh-sh..."

>>22415253
>cut the following phrases
y tho
>voices don't beckon
Beckoning is typically reserved for physcial motions true but this seems contentious.

>>22415220
here:
—

Is a little girl wanting to find her parents high enough stakes for a whimsical adventure story, or do I need to insert a villain that wants to destroy the entire world with a ticking clock element to make readers feel stakes and stay engaged?

>>22415253
I don't know anon, I think voices can definitely beckon. Generally not written like that though. Like the timbre of a voice, some specified attribute.
"Shush" is a much better word anyway, though. My infantile S-fetish places it somewhere close to "slough."

>a woman's voice softly beckons
fine
>a woman's voice softly beckons him in
fine
>a woman's voice softly beckons him into comfort
nonsense

>>22415308
only if the moment she leaves her parents on has something unresolved so the reader can look forward to that in particular resolving

>>22415068
>almost like you're purposefully softening it up
Wasn't my intention. I guess I'm just not good at describing disturbing stuff. Any tips?

>Something about a science fantasy setting with a bestial protagonist I guess.
Its basically pure horror with a large supernatural componebt. The animal characters are supposed to be like the anthropomorphic animals you'd see in children's novels. The excerpt in question is the climax of a sequence in which their bright and cheery fantasy world gives way to the horrific reality.
I don't know if that makes it more YA-ish, since I din't read those kind of novels.

>>22415404
>I guess I'm just not good at describing disturbing stuff.
Post a description that you would consider good, first.

>>22415404
Try reading The Raft by Stephen King. It's not a great short but from what I remember it has some really intense descriptions of body horror and gore. I guess the trick is to go into (literally) excruciating detail.
>anthropomorphic animals you'd see in children's novels
>their bright and cheery fantasy world gives way to the horrific reality
Sounds to me like either it's YA or so batshit that it doesn't have a wide market.

>>22415356
Always surreal when ESLs start telling me what I can and can't do with my native language.

>>22415362
Nah the premise is basically orphan girl and her best friend following a trail of breadcrumbs to find her parents. The stakes are more personal to the character and her motivations and feelings of not belonging or knowing where she came from or why she's different. Adventure ensues. I have the outline and much of it written, I'm always just conscious of whether readers give a fuck about the same things I do.

>>22415301
I didn't know the difference between an em dash and an en dash before reading this post.

>>22415504
I don't really care about markets, I just want to write this story and make it the best I possibly can.

>>22415308
Is your question "do I need a human/individual antagonist?" Because I have a feeling you already know the answer is no.

>>22415523
No shit Sherlock that's what we're all doing. Hate to break it to you but you live in the real world where the market will influence your work whether you choose to ignore it or not.

>>22415523
>make it the best I possibly can
What does this even mean? It's these kinds of vague goals that ensures you will never finish anything. It's why publication is useful, not for validation, but because it represents a reasonable endpoint.

>>22415540
Let me rephrase. I am not writing this story to sell it nor to advertise a patreon. I am doing it purely recreationally.

Does a tree exist if it's not sold as a consumer good

Oh boy it's another round of
>That's an interesting idea I'm so smart waitaminute that's just from some book/show/game I read the plot summary of

>>22415573
>Holznot

>>22415544
I suppose you may have a point there, but I don't do well with deadlines. They're more likely to make me abandon a work entirely rather than finish it.

As to what I meant by "the best I possibly can" I meant I want to improve as a writer. To make prose more elegant, and my stories more engaging.

>>22415591
>I want to improve as a writer. To make prose more elegant, and my stories more engaging.
More vague platitudes. And not surprisingly, it's what your actual writing is filled with as well. Do YOU even know what you mean when you say this crap?

>>22415585
That being said, I think I've finally entered the big leagues now
The rate at which I can dump prose overflowing with obtuse phrasing, etymological puns, and obscure quasi-philosophic academic wankery has exceeded any ability to craft simple, coherent stories. Tension? The fuck are character motivations? Do I even have characters yet?

>>22415078
Get out the thread. Read. Write. This is my final warning. I've got shit to do now.

>>22415601
If I knew that I wouldn't be here asking for writing advice. I'd just be writing a better story.

>>22415641
>burns out argumentative dork with patience and modesty
Based
One sec, ill

>>22415641
How is other people's writing advice supposed to help you figure out what elegant prose and engaging story means to YOU? It's a subjective value that you arrive at by cultivating your own taste. If you don't even know what you want, how are you supposed to discern what advice to take?

Struggler Writer here, I'm here to see what you guys can do to help me out with my general work and get my writing to be more coherent, legible, and much more improved.

Here's what I got for now, enjoy.

>>22415683
>less than 100 words
how bout you bump that up to an entire chapter's worth and then come back to solicit advice

>>22415683
are you esl?

>>22415674
Well I don't know what exactly makes writing good or what doesn't, but I do know when something looks off. That advice I got earlier about filtering words does appear to be a big problem with my writing now that its been pointed out to me, and it reads better without said words.

Steinbeck/Tolstoy-tier innovator here. I reformatted the game-changing novel that will shake up the literary world to make it a little more accessible to read. Thoughts appreciated.
https://docdro.id/9Urshp1

>>22415692
Until you cultivate your taste and figure out what good writing means to you, you will always be a slave to those kinds of rules instead of using them as tools to achieve the effects you want.

You'd be better served reading a dozen books in your preferred genre and figuring out which ones you enjoyed the most and then breaking them apart paragraph by paragraph, copying them, studying them, analyzing them to see what you liked and how that effect was achieved.

This isn't my advice btw, I stole it from Bernard Cornwell's website. He apparently did the same thing with the Horatio Hornblower novels and its what led to his work finally being published.

>>22415683
>Alex had been silent all morning. He was seated in an armchair, his eyes staring past the television. The other residents in the home watched intently, but his mind was on other things, family matters.

The last paragraph I can't even begin to interpret what is going on.

>>22415691
No. He's just a shitposter.

>>22415716
Awkward but legible
The man is sitting with his family watching TV. They're in rapt attention. His mind is elsewhere

>>22415729
Is it his family? It sounds more like he's in a retirement home. I can't even tell from the original thing.

On a scale of Fag to Cockguzzler, how much would you hate if I spelled druids as
>druwyd or druweyd

>>22415792
it'd be gayer than aids. like full blown, prolapsed anus leaking blood and shit and worms and aids

>>22415792
You'd get an eye roll but if your shit's good it would grow on me and turn endearing

>>22415078
Whats the difference between writing short stories and writing novels? I have a pretty good workflow for writing short stories, but how should one progress to writing novels or novellas?

>>22415792
Jizz bizzler.

How sizable is the Mormon scifi genre? There's no way it doesn't exist, right?
I am not one myself but find them fascinating and have started putting notes together for a novella about a kind of lone Mormon going out to a futuristic frontier to posthumously baptize somebody.

>>22415698
The style reminds me somewhat of "Stand On Zanzibar" by John Brunner.

>>22415877
Orson Scott Card is Mormon. He's written a lot of sci-fi.

anyone here writes (or has any advice on writing) what is generally called creative nonfiction ?

>>22415689
Will do my best after this
>>22415691
>>22415728
No I'm an someone who wants to write something, so there's nothing shitty here except for my writing.
>>22415729
>>22415733
I'm gonna have to say sorry for this stuff, since it seems i'm that fucking incapable of being good at communicating, even if I write. So to elaborate on what I'm trying to go for: I'm going for a story involving this alex guy, sort of a important character to me, and he's basically living in a dormitory-like place, basically around not really family, more so a bunch of room mates/residents of the dorm.

He's more so distracted with being more focused on dealing with a problem at hand, specifically involving that mentioned man guy alex would meet. You got something btw with something with family, but in the not way you guys think, more so it's involving his not-revealed yet younger brother of alex that is in a condition/status that has alex wanting the man's help, who is basically a scientist/doctor, though I had the idea in my head planned out with him being...a bit of a problematic professional of science and medical? Like he's really a flawed man.

I don't know, sorry then for that. I'm probably just really fucking stupid with this, and I don't know what to do to not have...THAT as my current level to write and shit.

>>22415845
the overall scope is obviously larger, but if you envision a novel as a series of short stories all strung along together it'll be close to what you're used to dealing with. the big difference would be rather than each chapter (short story) ending with a sort of catharsis they instead end with cliff hangers

>>22415698
Ah, the Redactor returns. I never responded to your follow-up last thread.
Still haven't finished your script yet, but the critiques you received for "uncommitted" projections of your beliefs (or whatever) seem totally without merit. A few of your choices do snag me here and there, but the good notably outweighs the bad.
HOWEVER.
I'm concerned by your previous claim, that this might be intended as a shooting script. It does work as a manuscript, quite well. What I said previously about the story's claustrophobic atmosphere—that it benefits hugely from your unconventional formatting—is something that sets your work apart from most writing I've encountered (this is a good thing). Your transitions and superimpositions are appropriately cinematic, but they're possibly more enjoyable to visualize than see realized through film. You encourage engagement uniquely. I'm just one retard on the internet, but I feel this shouldn't be squandered.
I'm still going to pretend you're Plasticine Cowboy.

>>22415698
I'm up to page 8, and so far, I'm bored senseless. Nothing is happening; it's a series of interrogations. And how do you intend to film "redacted"? Blur out the actor's face? A scramble-suit like from "A Scanner Darkly"? Because if not...why bother to call him "redacted"? Finally, this isn't a work of prose; it's more like a summary. Is this supposed to be the Reader's Digest condensed version? I'm gonna try to read more, but I'm having trouble maintaining interest.

Best thing I've ever learned is to just have fun. I will never write something I don't want to. I slaughter people by the hundreds in my words and I giggle. It's a charmed life.

>wrote an outline for a fantasy story and defined a lot of the character arcs, plots, world mechanics etc
>not satisfied with it still
>study my favorite works in the genre
>realize they're all deeply grounded and only use magic and supernatural elements sparingly which makes them feel real with stakes
>even then the magic feels like it could be science or tech or aliens etc
>meanwhile my story is fairly liberal with its use of magic and its fairly obvious mystical in nature and it all ties into the plot

Shit, do I keep it like this, rewrite it to be less mystical and more like my favorite works, or just push the magic into the late end of the story so the majority of it still feels real

>>22416078
Sounds like you're writing "high fantasy". If that's what you want to do, do it. Don't conform to something else for its own sake.

>>22415698
I made it to the end of page 21. No more.
This is like the backstory of something to write, not the product itself.
Also, the plot and world are reminiscent of "The Laundry Files" by Charles Stross.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Laundry_Files

>>22416106
Well I started out with the intention of writing something that would hopefully make people feel the same way those favorite works made me feel, I just didn't analyze things carefully enough before starting, only after finishing up a lot of the work did I even feel the need to look into what makes my story different from those I like in order to fix it. I realized the grounded feel and the potential "it could be anything" are big parts of why I love those favorites, and those are largely missing from my story.

For your reading pleasure: The Love of the Life of Plimpton Billmeyer Chapter II

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5ughmon0fqthau4ddwdse/Chapter-II.docx?rlkey=8z3ww7i6t3kj70xtobcklaq9x&dl=0

>>22416078
Magic systems are actually super unnecessary IMO. It's magic, not chemistry.

>>22416215
I don't think of it as a system, I'm talking more about stuff like the difference between ASOIAF magic where it's very subtle and rare and it feels like the people that use it don't even understand it, versus something like Warcraft where everyone's throwing fireballs around willy-nilly and magic is commonplace. I realized I prefer stories where magic is mindblowing to most characters and seemingly has lots of potential explanations that lend themselves to speculation, as opposed to magic that could only be explained as, well, magic.

Compare how the Others had people wondering if they're a civilization, elves, zombies, weapons, ancient humans, future humans, true inhabitants of Westeros, magic robots, aliens etc, but something like the Burning Legion is just accepted as alien demons by default and that's it, there's no element of wonder. Even the shadow baby in ASOIAF feels like overstepping the boundary because it's obviously not tech or science or an alien.

>>22416259
huh?

I found this interesting excerpt in a previous /wg/ thread. Is the anon who wrote it still around?

>>22416259
The term you're looking for is soft magic vs hard magic

I asked this in the previous thread, but I want to get some more opinions
>>22412231

Hey anons, are there anyone here that's experienced in editing? I've been having difficulties looking for an editor because my work is too short about 17k words. I don't plan to become a big writer this is just a hobby for me but I'd like to publish it online but in need of an editor.

>>22415308
Have you never read The Wizard of Oz?

>>22416215
I'm going into such autistic detail with magic in my story, the readers will either be certified sages and shoot meteors in real life by the end, or INSANE, JUST LIKE ME

>>22416062
>>22416117
>>22416034
[redacted] here, thanks for your thoughts. I was honestly confused when that anon called me out for smuggling in my personal beliefs. I am, to be sure, but not so simply as plugging all the qualities I deem "bad" into a "bad" character.
Too bad the document couldn't hold your interest though. Interrogation room videos are an odd niche and I think you need a certain mystery-oriented brain for them to intrigue you. So much about interrogations is superficially about what happened outside the interrogation room that it's easy to ignore how heavily seeped in conflict the interrogation room itself is.

>>22416738
This happened to me but luckily I found it

>>22416177
Quick note- one does not generally "stomp" on an emergency brake

>>22417077
Handbrake is not an "emergency brake", it's for parking

>>22417081
??? but those are synonyms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parking_brake

>>22416177
Strange. This chapter gave me the exact same reaction as before. The Santa stuff made me smile and chuckle at first but it quickly tapered out and by the time the firefighter came in I was already straight-faced.
This honestly feels like a ton of amateur comedy screenplays I've read. The writers seem to feel they can substitute clever jokes/punchlines with an ever-present "air of silliness-" stuff like having every character be a ridiculous parody who says and does insane shit constantly. The result can sometimes be interesting in a morbid way but rarely is it funny. I haven't written much comedy but even I can tell you it's all set-up, set-up, set-up, and then punchline.
This chapter has some weird commentary on the power dynamic between public servants and the public. It's interesting you cast a firefighter into the role of the abusive public servant as, without humans to lord their power over, firefighters are looked upon more kindly by the public. But can't say I found this funny.

Tourist with a very stupid question here.
This is mostly a /tv/ thing but I didn't find an appropriate thread there so I'm asking here.
Is there a name for the "arrangement" of the scenes?
Like choosing if I want to have a fight scene at the very beginning, then a flashback, then a sad scene, etc.

>>22417218
That's usually referred to as the "structure"

>>22415356
I just want a blowjob at night from a woman wearing a rose gold wristwatch.

I'm making a really story-heavy game and am looking for feedback on the intro sequence. I've done my best to make the gameplay parts understandable in a written context.

If anyone could give some thoughts on the writing and the premise, that would be really appreciated.

>>22416689
https://www.fiverr.com/matthewg42

I just finished my latest project. Shoot me a message and mention you're from /lit/ so I can put you to the top of the queue

>>22417379
bro why you look like agent smith

>>22417324
I only got up to the unwinnable fight. This is trying way too hard to be Dark Souls. Feels like every other AAA game out there.
Doesn't help that your prose is not good, but I'm assuming you're a dev and will either get someone else to write the actual game or read more book between now and when you write it

>>22417324
Do people even care about story in games anymore? Seems like it's more about emergent story from gameplay now (e.g Rimworld, Rust, Elder Scrolls games)

>>22417461
If you're after chasing whatever's popular then you'd be better off writing a loose series of events to connect the stages of a mobile puzzle game with a daily limit mechanic

>>22417436

We're on a mission from God

>>22417467
Based strawmanner

>>22417472
https://youtu.be/Xx4-HYQrYj8?si=bEf3Wz3i9YeTow-M&t=10

>>22417476
My point stands, if anon wants to write a traditional linear narrative game then let him, not like there isn't a market for it

>>22417457
Dark Souls wasn't even one of my inspirations, so that's curious. Can you explain what about it feels so generic to you? The prose not being very good is less of a concern at the moment.

>>22417461
I do, yeah. Lots of RPG nerds to, especially those that play CRPGs.

>>22417461
Baldur's Gate 3 just came out and people can't stop raving about it

>>22417481
That picture was awful, but I didn't want to photoshop the gig images again

>>22417528
You kinda look like you could be CDawgVA's gay cousin.

>>22417528
I like how you took the time to put on those sunglasses and that snappy no-tie suit but not the time to wipe that shit off your mirror

>>22417259
Thank you very much.

>>22417505
Seems like you put a lot of thought into coming up with the names but not a lot of thought coming up with unique and interesting things for those names to do. Both the creation myth at the start and its presence are painfully generic. The story feels entirely hollow, just a hanger for the gameplay, which obviously doesn't even exist yet.

>>22417545
You could also get away with calling it the "assembly" or "arrangement"

>>22417545
Come to think of it "sequence" also works. The lesson is that these things don't have set terms in the real world and you just use whatever makes it comprehensible what you're talking about.

>>22417540
>i won't hire this editor because his mirror is dirty

>>22417549
>>22417554
I see, thank you.

>>22417557
No, I won't hire you because you're a creepy 4chan user.

>>22417548
That might be because I'm using a JRPG I played as a child as a jumping off point.

The basic mechanics of the game are pretty much in place, actually, but that's something that comes naturally to me. This writing stuff is much harder.

>>22417562
Then hopefully you've got something interesting cooking in the gameplay department because this story doesn't do it for me

>>22417567
Aw fuck. Maybe? It'll be a blobber with your party being made of golems you and Azura (player's wife) make together.

>>22416000
So from this, I deleted my piece but I feel like I don’t know what I’m doing?

Anyone got anything to help me out?

>>22417575
Can't really tell you if it works without playing it. If it's just run-of-the-mill RPG maker turn-based combat mechanics then that story would not be enough.

>>22415683
It's easy to tell you're ESL. Or at least I hope you're ESL and don't have this poor of a grasp of your native language. If you're trolling, great job, you got me: I think you're stupid.

>>22417619
Combat will be turn-based, but I'll be doing a few things I liked from other games to give it more depth than RPGM shit.

NO MATTER WHAT I'VE BEEN THROUGH
NO MATTER HOW HARD I HAVE TO TRY
I'LL NEVER GIVE UP
I'LL NEVER BACK DOWN
I'M GONNA BE THE NEXT BEST RATED ROYAL ROAD WRITER.
BELIEVE IT!

>>22417629
If you want to get some storytelling inspiration from a game with really generic RPG turn-based party gameplay but with a story good enough to make up for it then I recommend the Avernum games. Start with Escape From the Pit. It's got a very in-depth world, gripping story, and a ton of characters, like an explorable novel.

>>22417647
Alright, I will. Thanks for the tip.

>>22417110
Thanks again for reading! Yeah, I'm definitely going for an oppressive air of silliness. I just got done writing some real dreary shit, so I wanted to write some real dumb shit. It doesn't quite make me laugh, either, but it's been a joy to write
Soon, Chapter 3 . . .

>>22416000
Checked but I didn't read your post. Don't even think about writing anything right now. Learn the fucking language first. Read some books. Not a 4chan thread, a fucking book nigga. Keep reading and reading and eventually you'll realize you can string two words together without creating a syntactical error.

>>22417650
Awesome! I will not be reading, it lost me

>>22417626
>>22417671
I ain't an ESL person, so it's best to say I'm just that bad at writing due to something with me, lmao.

I have to ask though, am I choosing a "hard" book to get better? The book in particular is The Stand by Stephen King and is what I'm trying to imitate from.

>>22417703
King is by no means a "hard" author, kek. He's literally the king of the airport mass market paperback novel. At this point this has to be bait.

Just found I write 11 words per minute. It's ogre.

>>22417725
At least you don't write 11 minutes per week

>>22417725
Do you try to write fast? Can you touch type yet?

>>22417740
I touch type at 70wpm. Typing isn't the problem.

>>22417703
King is extremely accessible. It's good you're starting there. But you should read more than him. Start with the books in this chart.

>he considers himself a writer
>he hasn't read War & Peace cover to cover
Many such cases. Sad!

>>22417767
I read Anna Karenina. That was quite enough for me.

>>22417776
Eh to be honest I audiobook'd it at 2x speed

>>22417742
Ah... time to quit then. You have no thought processor for writing.

>>22415220
you should avoid writing in a language you don't even know well enough to tell when something you wrote is very wrong
the rest reads like the beginning of a fetish story, it's not bad or clunky, just it's odd at times, for example the contrast between a harder, more serious tone, like "the light burns his eyes" and a light hearted tone, like "warm solution fills his stomach as he drifts off"
the contents also really make it sound like the beginning of a fetish story

>>22417707
You know I'm just trying but I'm having some issues right now. It ain't easy for me man. If you're gonna keep acting like this, I'm certain things won't end well for you later on.

>>22417744
So does this mean I should put an hold on the stand and move to these with checking out my local library? If so, then I really expect this kit will have everything I need for my story work. Thanks

>>22415509
>someone who I disagree with must be ESL
>I can't possibly write something wrong in my mother tongue
I recommend you get to a point where you really want criticism before asking for criticism again.

At some point Saturn had been blown up by who knows what, the ice formerly making up its rings dispersed somewhere, its memory mostly contained in pictures taken by space telescopes.
Black frame, black to brown gradient lenses, RayBan RB3548 in 51mm size, or L according to the catalog I could find online shortly after stealing them, and looking at the sun was just a treat, not lastly because it would only be visible for some 50 minutes a day from the mountain where I'd been living for the past 17 days.
“Smith…”
Breakfast was on my mind.
Pause.
“It’s your turn today… where’s breakfast?”
Much the same was on her mind as well, so this time I replied, “Not ready yet, give me a few minutes.”
A sound of disappointment so quiet that you might have thought she was whispering to a lover, and with that I got up and headed out into an unstructured world of green to pick enough bananas for three.
I didn't know what was going on in the more "structured" world, where the price of a KWh of electricity was a concern for a rising number of people each bimesterer and standing less than 90cm far from anyone other than members of your immediate family or romantic partners was considered an outrageous lack of respect by anyone under 30, or just a conspicuously flippant gesture by people between 30 and 40.
The display read 09:14, and I hardly cared.
One thing among what I cared about was the state of my number one favorite theater in the world; the rest was elsewhere in space and time: the then and there, to be more specific.
As I was coming back on the makeshift porch my colleague had proceeded to get more dressed, boil some water and unfold two chairs and a table, so I set the morning’s chase on the table while she poured water over the tea, I turned around to face the open side of the porch and kept looking at the bright light blue sky.
My colleague sat in the chair on the opposite side of the table, got a firm hold of a banana and said “Disfruta,” and I replied, “Disfruta.”
Spanish was not the mother tongue of either of us, but it was the only one we had in common where an expression to use before a meal and that was a wish rather than a strong advice existed; plus I like to believe it made us closer in a way.
It gave us a way to express that we had something in common aside from our profession.

I posted this some time ago and re-worked it keeping your precious and much appreciated feedback in mind.
More would, as always, be very welcome, please and thank you.

>>22417951
Damn dude you have a sick mind.

Finna write erotica
Is it retarded if I have the female lead of each story have a name that starts with v?

>>22417961
No you can finish reading The Stand if you want. Just read those books after. And that's only a starter kit- once you're done reading those it's time to move on to the more advanced stuff.

>>22417963
I give you the benefit of the doubt when I call you an ESL

>>22417379
Just sent a message anon

>>22418037
Gotcha, so really putting writing last and reading first. But what rp stuff, does that count for a side improving while reading?

>>22415220
Are you aware that nobody beyond the age of like 10-12 writes hiragana in Japan?

If you think Japanese is cool, cool. But learn it first.

For your reading pleasure: The Love of the Life of Plimpton Billmeyer, Chapter III
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hqi2l62mp7wjtrjxy0yjm/Chapter-III.docx?rlkey=v0vnqypfdriloqdx33x6zxq26&dl=0

Praise for Plimpton Billmeyer:

"I soon grew apathetic."
-Steve

"Amateur comedy . . . it lost me."
-Anonymous

Trevor is wrong. Jasper is wrong. They're all wrong. Everyone I know is lying to themselves. Trevor I have known since grade 8, and Jasper I have known since junior year. They are going down a path darker than I can imagine. They are my best friends. They will never be writers. Every day I come home from school and check our group chat and spy some new travesty. Something about some Onlyfans whore, or how the governmental response to the AIDs crisis failed people in the '80s. I am pinching the bridge of my nose. Some nonsense designed to distract them. They will never be writers. They are possessed.

>>22415404
If your transformation is meant to be horror and not your thinly veiled fetish I'd suggest Animorphs. Make it gruesome not like you're reading a dry step by step direction to becoming a furry. An American Werewolf in London has that famous scene where the guy is in total agony, analyze that.

>>22418023
>At some point Saturn had been blown up by who knows what,
Generalities are bland.
>Black frame, black to brown gradient lenses, RayBan RB3548 in 51mm size, or L according to the catalog I could find online...
End your sentence here, for God's sake, and then start another. Periods cost nothing.
>... shortly after stealing them, and looking at the sun was just a treat, not lastly because it would only be visible for some 50 minutes a day from the mountain where I'd been living for the past 17 days.
Do you see how you're mixing up a bunch a different of times without warning? It's chaos.

>Pause.
You don't have to say pause. Saying 'Breakfast was on my mind' naturally causes the reader to put a pause between dialogue. If you want a longer pause, add a longer sentence there.
>Much the same was on her mind as well, so this time I replied,
Totally unnecessary.
>A sound of disappointment..., and with that I got up...
Short sentence fragments are okay. It's not okay to make a long sentence fragment into a complex sentence.
>..a rising number of people...other than members of your immediate family or romantic partners...anyone under 30...people between 30 and 40.
The sentence has way too many people in it. And people who aren't really important. If you want to introduce some world building outside the immediate scene, dedicate a whole paragraph (of manageable sentences) to it.
>>22418023
>One thing among what I cared about was the state of my number one favorite theater in the world; the rest was elsewhere in space and time: the then and there, to be more specific.
There's nothing at all specific in this sentence. It's almost meaningless.

>>22418023
>Spanish was not the mother tongue of either of us, but it was the only one we had in common where an expression to use before a meal and that was a wish rather than a strong advice existed;
This is severely mangled.

In general, you mess up long sentences. Chop them up. Start small and work your way up.

Genuinely can't believe people waste time watching YouTube videos on character development, writing, archetypes, narrative etc. This shit is so fucking surface level. I am watching some stuff my friend sent me over and I am honestly not sure why he even bothers with that stuff. As far as I am concerned, he is already more knowledgeable, aware and skillful than these pseudo-authoritative YouTubers. None of this shit goes beyond the level of mere opinion, and not even interesting opinion, at that.

>>22418908
Indeed. I clicked on a few a while back only to find them unjustifiably patronising.

>>22418988
That'd be fine if they had ground to stand on, but damn.
>20 minute video
>basically just waffling
>poor logic at crucial places
>"but in the end, it really just depends on your perspective! the answer could be A *or* B!"
People have way too much free time.

>>22418998
>>22418988
>>22418908
It's because you failed the IQ test (even if just barely) that it's a grift and there's a reason those videos are all similar length to each other.

>>22419004
I know it's a grift - or worse, people who actually think their content is interesting. What really shocks me is that other people, even intelligent people, actually watch this stuff. My friend is smart, and a good writer and analyst. I just can't understand why he would watch this schlock.

>>22419004
>it's a grift
Yes, but how do people not pick up on it within the first minute?

>>22418998
>People have way too much free time.
Well, we're all guilty of that. I've wasted far too much time on here today already.

>>22419071
>I've wasted far too much time on here today already.
Probably same. But I am honestly too bummed out to do anything productive, so I guess it's fine. I should be thinking about a short story I need to write for a competition. The deadline is in a couple of days and I still haven't settled on a concept. I actually came up with an idea a while ago, but then I didn't do anything with it so I forgot it completely. I am honestly not even sure why I am going to participate in that competition. I guess the monetary prize would be nice, but I am definitely going to lose, so, eh. Anyway, I want to write something cool so I should probably get to brainstorming, just not really in the mood. Maybe I'll get that sense of last minute urgency again, who knows.

>>22419091
You'll get there anon, as long as you make time for it. I haven't written anything in about a week now, finally have two days off and ended up loitering around the house today. We all need our breaks, some rest. I'll get straight into it tomorrow, as I'm sure you will if you put your mind to it.

>>22419121
Thanks anon, all the best to you too with your writing projects.

Hello /wg/! I'm struggling with tone a bit in my writing. It's not supposed to feel formal and stuffy but on this third rewrite of the same passage, I'm left with something that resembles British Academia instead of upcoming graduate student. I don't think it's just word choice, though that's probably a part of it. Here is the writing:

>I met Naveen at a graduate networking seminar two weeks before the semester began. He introduced himself to me as an “operations generalist,” and then went on to explain that although he is not particularly great at any one thing, he is moderately good at so many things the employers either forget what he does entirely or become completely dependent on the diversity-hire swiss army knife they’ve procured. When I asked him what it is he actually does, he winked at me a few times in rapid succession, seeming to insinuate that we shared an inside joke of sorts, then mentioned something about taking advantage of the free bar and wandered off. I remember noticing his eyelashes were exceptionally long, almost womanly.

>But thinking nothing of the exchange and confirming in my mind the ridiculousness of the event, I took my seat in the back row of a lecture hall, watery gin and tonic sweating profusely in one hand, and waited for the next speaker to begin. There were only two sessions left for the day and so the number of interested individuals dwindled in kind. I figured free drinks, no matter how stale, and face time with my future department heads was a fine reward for such a small price, and the alternative was to return to my home and do nothing, as always. No sooner had my mind begun to wander to thoughts of microwaved dinner rolls than Naveen returned, a filled plastic cup in each hand—one clear, one dark.

>“It was last call,” he explained, shrugging. “If you chug the last of that, I can pour some into your cup.”

>It took me a moment to realize what he was offering. “Oh, that’s alright.” I gave him an awkward smile, unsure of how to react. There were plenty of places for him to sit, and I couldn’t help but think of the all too familiar situation of choosing the urinal next to someone at a public restroom. It was mean of me to judge, especially when there was nothing wrong with the man outright, but his eagerness for sudden familiarity could only be interpreted so many ways. I resolved to maintain politeness, whatever his disposition.

What exactly am I doing wrong? Why is it so hard to remain a distant first-person past voice, a sort of detached narrator (maybe a bystander narrator?) without devolving into stuffy, borderline Br*tish dogshit? Help, please!

>>22417528
Love the look anon, keep fighting the good fight.

>>22419232
Ah, how delightful it is to witness your quest for literary refinement, though one cannot help but discern the exasperated plea beneath your words. Your textual quandary lies not solely within lexical choices, but rather within the intricacies of narrative posture and tone. Your commendable aspiration towards an unobtrusive, dispassionate "bystander narrator" is palpable, yet the very fabric of your prose occasionally betrays this intention.

In the passage presented, your foray into first-person narration assumes a posture that veers perilously close to overly elaborate verbosity, reminiscent of the erudition exuded by certain British scholars. To imbue your prose with an air of casual erudition befitting a burgeoning graduate student, one might propose a modest recalibration of sentence structures, favoring succinctness while preserving a veneer of intellectual engagement. It is imperative to embrace a judicious balance, sparing no effort to thwart the encroachment of ornate syntax that could potentially render your narrative disingenuously stiff.

So, let your narrative reticence be guided by the sagacious restraint of an observer rather than the professorial affectations of a rhetorician, and lo, you shall craft a prose of unassuming refinement that eschews the lamentable pitfalls of "stuffy, borderline Br*tish dogshit," as you so aptly characterize it.

>>22419250
Hilarious bot, or AI, or speed-typing this nonsense, and thanks for the response, snark and all. I suppose that's a good place to start. Maybe I'm realizing I don't want my narrator to be as uninvolved as I thought, or maybe I always knew he was a biased narrator but didn't know how best to show it. Regardless, I agree the sentence structure does not convey "upcoming graduate student" and instead, tweed-jacket wearing coffee-breathed English professor. Thanks, pal!

>>22419250
>>22419285
Not to spam, but how's this? Have I gone far enough? Have I maintained the character of the narrator, of Naveen, or have I lost it in my edit?

>I met Naveen at a graduate networking seminar two weeks before the semester began. He introduced himself to me as an “operations generalist,” and then went on to explain that although he isn’t really good at anything specifically, he’s pretty good at so many things the employers either forget what he does or become completely dependent on their diversity-hire swiss army knife. When I asked him what it is he actually does, he winked at me a few times in rapid succession as if we shared an inside joke. Then he mentioned something about taking advantage of the free bar and wandered off. I remember noticing his eyelashes were really long, almost womanly.

>But thinking nothing of the moment and laughing at the stupidity of the event, I took my seat in the back row of a lecture hall, watery gin and tonic sweating bullets in hand, and waited for the next speaker to begin. There were only two sessions left for the day, and so the number of interested individuals had dwindled. I figured free drinks, no matter how stale, and face time with my future department heads were fine rewards for such a small price. The alternative was to return to my home and do nothing, as always. No sooner had my thoughts wandered to microwaved dinner rolls than Naveen returned, a filled plastic cup in each hand—one clear, one dark.

>“It was last call,” he explained, shrugging. “If you chug the last of your drink, I can pour some into your cup.”

>It took me a moment to realize what he was offering. “Oh, that’s alright.” I gave him an awkward smile, unsure of how to react. There were plenty of places for him to sit, and I couldn’t help but think of when someone chooses the urinal next to another person at a public restroom. It was mean of me to judge, especially when there was nothing outright wrong with him, but his eager demeanor could only be interpreted so many ways. I decided to be polite, despite the weirdness.

>>22418196
No, RP texting does not count, but feel free to use your free time however you see fit.

>>22418197
I don't claim to know Japanese. That text is copy/pasted. The title and the chapter titles are an album and songs you can listen to on a loop while you read each chapter. They're by Haruomi Hosono and they directly inspired the narrative.
https://youtu.be/2RRrzssFlKw?si=Vt9WSaL3UvnxfkxD

>>22418198
>dude lol look how many people hate this thing I made XD
reddit-tier humorist

>>22418908
Thirding this. Learning that stuff is lucrative when you're just starting out so it's good the resources are plentiful but once you've gotten the hang of the technical stuff (and it doesn't take long) the useful thing to do becomes explore more narratives and discover more combinations and ways of doing things firsthand.

>>22419232
Man fuck off. Fuck you. I don't buy your bullshit act for a fucking moment. That shit is so fucking tight motherfucker. Fuck you.

>>22419374
I don't really know what the fuck this anon >>22419250 was talking about but at least the line, "Your textual quandary lies not solely within lexical choices, but rather within the intricacies of narrative posture and tone" makes it clear that some minor editing of the text isn't going to cut it. It's not something cosmetic like your prose but deeper than that, like your subject choice.

I bought a freewrite as a birthday present for myself and it's neat, but should be 1/10th the price for what it is.

>>22419789
>prose is a cosmetic feature in the medium of prose
Dios mio...

>>22419733
Someday I'll be a 4chan tier humorist, but I have a lot to learn

Hey anons quick question, I'm going to run a /qst/ soon and I've always struggled in writing stuff between sections with long dialogue. Are there any resources or any advices anons have? Thank you!

>>22418197
The Japanese is superfluous and comes off as especially pretentious, but hiragana is perfectly fine for each of the words there.

>>22419806
You should see how cheap stationary and pens are.

>>22419969
I am kind of similar so I just write first person slop. It works great.

>>22419862
Good prose without kick behind it is just dead words.

>>22419895
4chan humor's easy too, just call everything Reddit.

>>22419806
I'd sooner buy an actual typewriter (I am considering this)

>60k words of planning notes
There's zero chance I can remember this and write it all, properly, in the correct chronological order, without missing something and creating a plot hole.
It's over.

Do you ever think of your characters as being truly alive in your head?

>>22420519
The chad discovery writer would have finished the book by now.

>>22420530
Yes, there are little universes inside my head and my characters are all living people in them. All I do is find the best way to write down what they do.

>>22420519
>writes a novel to plan one
based Cain writer spending hours toiling under the hot sun just to make some boring vegetable sacrifices

What if I started a creative Twitch channel and livestream it whenever I write? Only I wouldn't want anyone reading what I'm writing so the stream would just be me sitting in front of the webcam.

>>22420586
How about an interactive stream where the chat has an input on what you write, so you end up writing whacky and entertaining stuff?
If your sense of humor is good enough, it would make for a far more popular stream.
You would obviously not progress at all in your main projects, but it would be good practice, as the chat would regularly bring you outside of your comfort zone.

Do you think it's possible to write a story where all the characters are cool and enjoyable? I mean, almost every work of fiction ever made has some irritating retard in the cast. Everyone hates him/her, the cast and the audience, but that retard has a clear purpose. He adds tension and momentum by provoking reactions from other characters with his imbecilic behavior. Do you think hateable characters are a necessary evil? Are stories where everyone is likable doomed to be boring and unengaging?

Question for people more up to late on the /wg/ lore than me. Do we know any more details about F Gardner’s hot tranny girlfriend who cameod in his YouTube channel? For some reason I just can’t imagine him being married or anything

>>22420701
Yeah, you can write a story where all characters are competent and it's simply a matter of fog of war shitting things up for protagonist and antagonist.

Making a wrong choice due to limited information is not being retarded.

>>22420705
He deleted the video.

>>22420557
You are probably right. I might just start writing it, and revisit it later to adjust it according to the plan. That would probably be better. I just loathe the idea of falling short from my plan and having to expend extra effort to make things work.

>>22420705
It was Woolston's wife who left him. And I still love her and wish she'd come back oohoohoohoo. Kiss my arse and I mean it.

test

>>22420705
I’m surprised the groundskeeper doesn’t get more shit from his critics for being a tranny-fucker. They’d ironically have more shit to mock him with if they actually watched his videos and noticed these things.
>>22420895
Shame. She looked like a bimbo with fake tits.

>>22421023
Gardner wiki with all this footage archived when?? Who am I kidding? Gardner would just get the wiki taken down.

You people will never write anything that the average joe wants to read. That's because you have not experienced anything interesting, nor do you even hang out with notable people (if at all).
Wanna know how Nico Walker went from junkie prisoner to a big name in publishing, with a TV show released right after his acclaimed novel? He actually had a LIFE.

>>22421055
>His detractors devolve into kiwitrannies out of jealousy of his meager indie success.
Gardner won.

>>22421068
Notable people like who? Everyone's a celebrity in their own right now, yet nobody is

>>22421069
I wouldn't say putting up with a mentally ill faggot and not having children is winning.

>>22421070
>muh social media
That's not real, retard. If you don't know, you don't know.

>>22420835
I'm not talking about competence though, but personality traits. You can do things correctly and still be an annoying idiot. Fucking things up isn't necessary.

>>22421068
Ah, but here's where you're wrong anon! As an asocial schizoid, I have a deeper and more colourful inner life than any NPC normie out there. And to top it off, in my supreme autism, I have both the time and the will, not to mention the skill, to devote myself to writing. Others may be too busy living life, but I am not! The overwhelming advantage belongs to me.

>>22421073
Social media is reality. This isn't 2006 anymore, grandad.

>>22421081
>self diagnosed memes
Nice. You're no better than a Tumblrina.
>>22421085
It really isn't. Lots of "influencers" barely make rent and have to borrow money from family and friends to get by. They're leading a fake life.

>>22421092
Okay mr. hollywood, you know better how the world works

>>22421094
>oh my god... the number on the screen went up! it's heckin' real!

>>22421097
>oh my god it's a screenshot of a bot service
>therefore social media isn't real!
>but my schmoozer douche friend who namedrops z-list celebs every ten seconds IS real, which makes ME real, see!

>>22421100
I was talking about Nico Walker, who had millions poured into his debut novel just after release. Nice way to dodge the actual topic of discussion. You will not be a good writer, because you live glued to a screen.

>>22421103
I dont care about this dude you're sucking off, who is a nobody and I never heard of him. And also you know nothing about my life. I know Britney Spears IRL

>>22421106
>who is a nobody and I never heard of him
He's mentioned in the archive heaps. You probably read slop.
>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=false&search_text=cherry+walker
>And also you know nothing about my life.
I know it's pathetic and devoid of meaning, since you live on social media and lurk this abysmal thread.

>>22415078
..So why do you write?

>>22421113
Everyone writes in this thread because they're obsessed with visual media but have no skills to actually draw nor get into the movie industry. So they write in the false belief they can ever be adapted into an anime or movie... It's sad. Luckily, they'll all be forgotten soon.

>>22421071
Nigga he is dating some supermodel looking shemale.

>>22421092
>Nice. You're no better than a Tumblrina.
I will just pretend that you're just larping ironically in response to my ironic larping. I don't want to look down on you, so I will assume you took nothing I said seriously.
>>22421113
No one here writes.
>>22421118
Half-truth. In fact, being a visual artist can actually be worse. In order to make a movie, you need a massive team, a massive amount of funds, and professional organisation plus a long amount of time. The scope of the project will be too great, and you will need to delegate control over your creative vision to others. As for manga, comics, or whatever - these guys genuinely cripple themselves while creating their stories. I am not fucking joking. Like half of the prominent comic and manga artists I follow have had crippling damage to their bodies as a result of trying to draw too much, too fast. So, you know, writing actually has very major practical advantages over visual media.

Why do people insist on making baseless assumpions about everyone else? You know less than nothing about it. This is an anonymous board. You just hope to hell that everyone else is as much a loser as you so you're not alone anymore.

>>22421168
Why would you come to a website that's widely known as the gathering place of mentally ill losers, if you were a balanced, successful adult?

>>22421165
>In order to make a movie, you need a massive team, a massive amount of funds, and professional organisation plus a long amount of time.
I think that's only true of big budget movies. Indie films have become so fucking easy with DSLRs or just animation/effects thrown in. It's not that hard to make your name for yourself in short film circles. Production companies don't care much about who you are, more that you inspire confidence in others and can make them money. Many directors broke in through already being talented in stage or other media. Some just got grants from institutions like David Lynch, who made an indie film, then become an overnight sensation due to them going against the grain. You can also just enter the movie industry in some lower end role like gaffer or apprentice for lighting.
>crippling mangaka
Maybe that's true, but you can still get other people to help out for you if you're already signed to a company. But people here are too lazy to even become webcomic artists. And I assume many of them at least get more views than most people publishing books on RR, Amazon, Wattpad, whatever.
>>22421168
t. loser
>>22421180
Because he's in denial.

>>22421180
if thats true then youre mentally ill and thus your analysis cant be trusted.
what now faggot

>>22421197
>if thats true then youre mentally ill and thus your analysis cant be trusted.
Doesn't follow. How many great artists were mentally ill?

>>22421180
Not him but that's not the entire userbase. It might be the majority or even just a loud minority, but there are normal people here as well (the ratio varies a lot depending on the board), simply because the mentally ill losers on this site can oftentimes provide a better forum experience, or at the very least a unique and interesting one, than any other website with a large enough userbase.

>t. self aware mentally ill loser who's not as bad as most 4chan mentally ill losers.

>>22421186
Sure, but that's very different from saying that it's a lack of skill. What you're basically saying is "just be famous and/or rich and well connected". But I am sure with money you could even hire a ghostwriter more practically and cheaply. So I don't think your argument is valid.

>>22421199
Sane or not, someone being a great artist isn't automatically also knowledgeable in whatever they're talking about at a given point in time.

>>22421199
your opinion is invalid. fuck off with your bill nye deductions

>>22421069
Gardner always wins baby. He’s a based retard who always perseveres. He’s like Homer Simpson.

>>22421202
The sane population here were all born before 1981. Everyone else is mentally ill by virtue of being Millennial/Zoomer cucks.
>>22421204
>Rich
If you can't afford to hire a DSLR camera for a week, which shouldn't cost more than $100, then you probably don't have any reason to be creating art. Mainly because you should go get a job and learn how to function as a human being.
>famous
Lynch wasn't famous before Eraserhead.
>Connected
Huh? You just join a facebook group on filmmaking in your area and answer ads for roles. Unless you live in bumfuck nowhere, there will be jobs.
>>22421207
>knowledgable people are good at things
Which is what you should be doing... What is the point of this thread if you guys aren't learning about your craft?
>>22421213
It's funny you think Bill Nye is the voice of deductive thinking, which isn't even true because he hates deduction. He's an "evidence based" sorta guy.

>>22421214
Oh god. I’m fucking glad I saved this.

>>22421217
Everything you say reads like bait.
Thinking about the small chance of you being serious makes me sad.

>>22421241
You can't help but reply. You're a slave.

>>22421243
Yep.

>>22421202
>but there are normal people here as well
No. Anyone who goes to a mud pit to wrestle with pigs is guaranteed to be just as off the wall. Especially if they enjoy it.

>>22421230
>Go home to my mansion

Didn’t he actually move from a mansion to a penthouse? In Chicago of all places?Frank’s entire life seems so insane. Either way keked and saved.

Your categories dont make any sense and you move the goalposts so many times I'm surprised you havent thrown your back out.
You're not smart and you haven't grasped what is going on at all, not here, not in the world, not in your own miserable little life.
Drown yourself.

>>22421255
You love internet arguments. It's the closest thing you have to human interaction.

>>22421248
Dumb analogy, doesn't work.

>>22421274
t. mud pig who got fucked by a wrestler

You are X which is le not normal which is le bad therefore you can't be anything other than this thing. The world is black and white. I own three brain cells and none of them really work properly.

>>22421248
>but there are normal people here as well

Irrelevant. This cesspit is known as the hellscape that Call of the Crocodile and F Gardner crawled out of. It doesn’t matter if there are “normal” people here. Define normal people. You can’t. Not when it comes to here.

>This cesspit is known as the hellscape that Call of the Crocodile and F Gardner crawled out of.
/lit/ doesn't begin and end in 2020. There have been plenty of writers who won awards and went on to have careers, but they don't bring up this place IRL because it's just a past-time. That's like bringing up what MySpace blogs you went on.

I find books with multiple main characters hard to follow. I lose interest very quickly.

>>22421217
>Lynch wasn't famous before Eraserhead.
Anon I have no idea who that guy is.
Anyway, seems like you're coping and seething for some reason. Have a good time. Movies are super gay btw.

>>22421283
>The world is black and white.
The world is grey. Men are selfish. We are doomed. But no one really wants to read a shut in who lives online, sorry.
>>22421304
>Anon I have no idea who that guy is.
You were probably born after 9/11, so your opinion holds no weight.

Where do you guys find the energy to write? I know what I want to write but everytime I sit to do it my mind dulls out after a couple of words

>>22421307
Is this what it's like to be a hylic? Maybe go on TikTok and watch the stream of shit, because that's all society wants from you at the moment.

>want to include a smart character
>tfw not smart enough to write an actually smart character
help, he's nothing more than a pretentious dipshit

>>22421310
What is a hylic? And watching tiktok would be a waste of my time

>>22421316
>he doesn't know

>>22421289
>Talking shit about F Gardner

Red alert! /wg/ about to be flooded by notices from the Gardner legal defense team!

>>22421318
What???

>>22421325
Get better rest and maybe take up nicotine if you can't get through the heckin first sentence.

>>22415509
nta but your sentence sounded off and bumped me. it's wrong

>>22418347
Thanks a lot for the input.
>generalities are bland
While that may be your strong opinion there's no writing bible, and I believe generalities can be used with great effect.
In this case they're used to create a contrast between seemingly important events and a devil may care narration, which I think does wonders to characterize for his characterization.
Does it not give any impression about the narrator to you?
>end your sentence here
Why?
>you're mixing up different times without warning
Could you give me an example or two of a phrase containing different clauses with warnings?
>you don't have to say pause, you have other options
None of those options describe the same thing.
Removing "Pause" it would seem like the colleague's saying "Smith... it's your turn today... where's breakfast?", without much of a pause after "Smith", and if I used a longer sentence in place of "Pause" there wouldn't be a pause.
I can think of a few times I've read "Silence." in a book, which imo has the same effect, so why does "Pause" sound so bad to you?
>it's not okay to write long sentences made up of shorter clauses
Leaving aside the fact that this is very commonly done in writing and speech, why is it not okay to you?
>If you want to introduce world building do it in its own paragraph
Why do you say things have to be separated like that?
>manageable sentences
What's a manageable sentence?
>there's nothing specific in this sentence
Which is very clear from what's being said, which, in turn, might lead one to believe that statement's ironic.
In doing so, one would be right.
>This is severely mangled
How so?
>you mess up long sentences
How so?

It's not that I don't appreciate your feedback, I really do, the reason I'm asking this stuff is that I don't readily understand your reasons for giving this specific feedback.

>>22421305
>You were probably born after 9/11
Incorrect btw

>>22421314
What kind of smart? Smart in everything? Or street smart? Or some kind of genius strategist? An engineer? A politician?

>>22421437
>Removing "Pause" it would seem like the colleague's saying "Smith... it's your turn today... where's breakfast?", without much of a pause after "Smith", and if I used a longer sentence in place of "Pause" there wouldn't be a pause.
>I can think of a few times I've read "Silence." in a book, which imo has the same effect, so why does "Pause" sound so bad to you?
NTA but it's just amateurish. Use a period, use a comma, use "he said", or hell just write, "he paused" or "a pause". Literally writing "Pause" like its a stage direction just doesn't work in a prose piece (which you said this was). Anyone who responds to critique like this is beyond saving anyway, so I'm not even sure why I'm bothering. Godspeed.

>>22418156
thanks. if anyone from /lit/ is broke, i can give you guys some coupons. all the prices are negotiable, anyway

>>22421450
you're wrong. i've seen this construction before. often in screenplays but also in novels. Pause or Beat are perfectly legitimate ways of doing this. it's not amateurish at all

>>22421464
nah, it sucks
idk what to tell you anon
it's better 100% of the time to describe an action or a thought rather than write "and then nothing happened"

>>22421489
a beat happened. there was a pause, a lull in the action or dialogue.
you have no eye for nuance

>>22421494
>nuance
there is no nuance in a vacuous statement like "there was a pause"
even something lame and trite like "he furrowed his brow" contains more nuance

>>22421504
>NOOOO SOMETHING HAS TO HAPPEN BECAUSE I SAY IT DOES

>>22421506
>he can't think of a way to skillfully describe nothing happening without directly saying "and then nothing happened"
sorry, it's a you problem

Silence fell.
He said nothing.
A breeze came.
They looked at another for a time.
A bird called but nothing answered.
He exhaled but no words left his mouth.
They stood for a while and exchanged not even a word.

>>22421511
I'm not even the guy who wrote it, I just know you're wrong because I'm better read than you

>>22421525
What's the point?

How do I make a nigger seem human?

>>22421708
Write a man and take away the reason and accountability

>>22421715
And any semblance of beauty.

>>22421303
https://youtu.be/fSfsWFUmaX8?si=aWcHoYTAEV5asaj-

>>22421638
Kek. This guy upstaged everyone here forever. The anons love his work and no one even bothers to point out how terrible your prose is.

>>22421180
Because it's better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

>>22422140
Except you will be imprisoned in ice and always lose against the Normie kingdom of light because not even the other demons here trust in your mission to "make it" as a writer.

>>22421316

>>22421437
>there's no writing bible

>>22419707
Noted. Appreciate the help

>>22421437
rather than try to convince us that you did everything right, convince yourself that alternatives aren't better by editing and experimenting

>>22422140
If by "reigning" you mean being spat on by autistic children, you're in the right place

>>22422223
i hock bigger loogies

>>22422049
>14 replies
>like 4 of them actually comment the text
>the most flattering comments are "it's not shit"
sad. I'm also not going to comment, because you didn't ask nicely

>>22422157
Is "awakened" here synonymous with "indoctrinated with made up bullshit that people believe because they want to, even without a shred of evidence"?

>>22422251
Tell me you're a hylic without realizing you're telling me you're a hylic.

>>22422262
>oh no, the retard is calling me names for disagreeing with his unquestionably made up retardation, I better agree now, so he can respect me and call me the cool thing
Is this how you expect me to react?

>>22422157
This is retarded and vague

>>22422274
That's exactly what a Heimlich would say!

>>22422297
Another high lich! Ahhh!

>>22422251
>evidence
What makes you think anything in this world is real?

>>22422297
You'll never get a good answer, because the whole gnostic idea of enlightenment is vague on purpose.

There's nothing there; it's an empty category. Gnosticism says that the 'material world' is evil and worthless, but it never says what the spiritual knowledge opposed to it actually is.

The point is to feel that you're 'on the path' to being a true, enlightened spiritual warrior, without every having to worry about the specifics of what that means. You know you're better than everyone else, and your advantage consists in nothing else than your confidence in your superiority, that you've glimpsed higher things.

And when someone asks you what those higher things are, you bring out the empty phrases like 'sophia' and 'gnosis', like little meaningless talismans people are supposed to be impressed by.

>>22422317
I don't know that anything is real, but to believe a specific set of knowledge and shape my worldview around it, I need a reason to think that the aforementioned set isn't some made up bullshit that someone pulled out of thin air.

So tell me, what makes you think that the spiritual world exists in the exact configuration you believe it to be?

>>22422345
>I don't know that anything is real
That's just skepticism at that point, which is impossible to believe in forever. You probably believe in something.
>but to believe a specific set of knowledge and shape my worldview around it, I need a reason to think that the aforementioned set isn't some made up bullshit that someone pulled out of thin air.
Well, you can read the Nag Hammadi Library instead of deducing this from nothing. There are people who met Jesus and wrote about it.
>So tell me, what makes you think that the spiritual world exists in the exact configuration you believe it to be?
By reading scrolls and feeling that it is true. Have you tried ever reading something?

>>22422354
>You probably believe in something
No because I'm not a retard who decides that something is a fact when it's not.
Your entire framework is geared for convincing yourself of falsehood.

>Well, you can read the Nag Hammadi Library instead of deducing this from nothing.
Not wasting my time of "deductions" made by people who, as such, don't have nearly enough information for any worthwhile conclusion. With what we know about the universe it's blind guesses at best, made up stupidity at worst.

>There are people who met Jesus and wrote about it.
There are people who say they've met pretty much any religious figure you can name. Are all those religions real, even with all the conflicting beliefs?

>feeling that it is true
Ok I'm wasting my time here.

>>22422381
>Not wasting my time of
on*

>>22422381
You just found out what faith is, anon. Well done. Thanks for trying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g2U0EQze_0
Lilith Saintcrow has more to say about writing, and she has more readers, than anyone in this thread will ever have.

>>22422345
You've got your cause and effect backwards.
If you have the slightest spiritual awareness, you know the truth starts with you and flows out from there.
If you're a bovine conformist, you think the truth exists external to you.

>>22422521
That happened many years ago, after realizing that my very religious upbringing was based on stupidity.
I'm merely explaining it to someone who hasn't yet had that realization, and still thinks having *beliefs* is something that makes sense.

Hello
Here's the first page from a short fiction about a traveler in Italy. Some people (mostly friends) like my writing style, some people don't, so I'm curious about whether I should try to be more succinct for example. Will read some other submissions

https://pastebin.com/fuSFKdi0

>>22422543
Made up. There's no reason to believe that anything you said is real.

>>22422162
Just got that. Looking forward to reading it.

>>22422550
You're sort of mischaracterising Gnosticism. It's not a religion with a Church and the Gnostics actively hate Churches and their view of God. They believe the God of the Old Testament is a demon that imprisons human souls and forces them to worship him out of pride. They think the false "God" is a malevolent entity that wants to cause suffering by creating a false reality that we think we're in, whereas the true God is never of this world.
>still thinks having *beliefs* is something that makes sense.
You can't have no beliefs. You have the belief I am here typing a response to you, otherwise you wouldn't bother responding.

>>22422557
You are blind and erroneously assume everyone else can't see.

>>22422599
I'm not mischaracterizing anything. You think it makes a difference, while I don't. I'm talking about having the realization that you can't believe in something without a valid reason.
I assume you don't think every religion or belief system is true. Whether it's a major religion from another culture or an obviously stupid belief like cargo cults, you probably think that at least one of them is false (most people think it's every one except theirs) and was simply made up, and its believers just believe in bullshit for whatever reason.
That's what I think of every belief system, or anything paranormal really.
I'll believe it when I have reason to.

>You can't have no beliefs. You have the belief I am here typing a response to you, otherwise you wouldn't bother responding.
I think that there's a chance that my perception is fooling me and that nothing is fully certain, but as far as I can tell it's not, and acting on the assumption that what's tangible to me is as real as "real" can be in this existence, has never resulted in any incongruity or anything that can even suggest that I'm wrong, so I'm treating this interaction as "almost certainly real", which is as close as "knowing" as I can get.
Now that the semantics are out of the way, saying "you have to believe in something" isn't a justification for believing in anything.
It's not a black and white choice of "believe in nothing" vs "anything goes".
Some things are more believable than others.
If my friend tells me he just came from the park, I'll take it as "probably true" because it's plausible and even if there's a possibility that he's lying or mistaken, the stakes are so low that I don't care if I'm wrong. Unfortunately we can't always know if something is true for certain so we often have to make calls like that based on how it aligns with what we know for certain.
If he told me that he overheard his boss talking about wanting to buy a particular piece of land at all costs, and that it would be wise for me to use my savings to try and purchase it before he does to then resell it to him at a profit, I'd take it as "probably true" because it's plausible, but I don't have enough certainty to sink my savings into an investment that might not come to fruition, so I'm not going to go about it as if it's true.
If he told me that the world is the way any religion describes, but offered no evidence, I'm taking it as "most likely false" because by contrasting with what I *know* with quasi-certainty it will be implausible until proven otherwise, and most importantly, me believing in what he says would result in me changing my life accordingly, and it would be stupid to bet my life on something that gives me no reason to think is real, just because "you have to believe in something, dude".

>>22422654
But you're not seeing. You're just believing without seeing. That's what belief is. If you could see or perceive it in any way it wouldn't be belief. It would be knowledge.
Too bad that to this day, no matter how hard people search, no one has ever found a single piece of evidence.

>>22422768
You think Gnosticism is just another religion like Catholicism. It doesn't even negate other religions because it often integrates them, or is otherwise syncretic. It still holds central beliefs, but they're not used to say Hinduism is outright wrong, for instance.
It is based on faith. If you want philosophical enquiry, Plato already established that there must be a higher Good and form of the Good, otherwise everything is arbitrary nonsense and nothing matters.
>>22422773
The nature of spirituality isn't empirical like in science. We don't search for the answers to life through scientific studies. Why don't you commit suicide if you think everything is about scientific verification? There's no reason to think anything other than "I am a chemical reaction in a primate brain made of atoms on a speck of dust floating through space..."

>>22420459
There are bums in New Orleans who sit out in touristy areas with the oldest typewriters they can find and sell "original poems" that they write on the fly.
We live here so I always ignore them but a friend of mine is an innocent soul who got drunk and bought one last weekend. The girl was pretty nice and thanked him for giving her a topic other than love. She was hot in an unwashed hippy sort of way. The poem was uninteresting but she wrote it in ten minutes so surprisingly good for the circumstances.

>>22422341
Enlightenment and spiritual knowledge can be explained but that anon is doing a terrible job explaining it. A lot of anons who posts charts like that one above are controlled by hubris thinking and dont even understand it themselves. Its akin to someone calling themselves sigma male

>>22422796
>The girl was pretty nice and thanked him for giving her a topic other than love. She was hot in an unwashed hippy sort of way. The poem was uninteresting but she wrote it in ten minutes so surprisingly good for the circumstances.
And you didn't even try to fuck her? Loser.

>>22422162
It's good, but not a bible. It's only for pulp fiction.

>>22422805
We both spoke to her while she was writing but I'm never going to assume anybody trying to work for money like that is being genuine with me. I don't try to fuck Hooters waitresses either.

How, in a fantasy novel, can I attempt to make creatures and races interesting and varied compared to their typical portrayals?
I worry about creating my own, as I run the risk of being too derivative of the genre's standard. I want to simply start writing, though when an elf, orc or goblin appears in a scene I won't know how to write them without either
>reelying on uninspired recreations
>taking the (ideally avoided) step of worldbuilding

>>22422821
>I don't try to fuck Hooters waitresses either.
You don't fuck at all, for that matter.

>>22422787
>You think Gnosticism is just another religion like Catholicism.
I don't. Learn to read.
I just think it's made up, whether it's a religion or not.

>otherwise everything is arbitrary nonsense and nothing matters.
That's exactly what everything is, despite what any dumb "deduction" humans who know nothing about the universe made.

>The nature of spirituality isn't empirical like in science. We don't search for the answers to life through scientific studies.
That's what makes it a bunch of incorrect made up things. If making sure something is true isn't important, you're bound to believe in untrue things.
It's doubly retarded when you know it's made up and still shape your life around it.
Truly baffling.

>Why don't you commit suicide if you think everything is about scientific verification?
I don't commit suicide because this life is all that will ever exist, so I might as well ride it out.
Why don't you commit suicide if you think there's more to existence?
What a nonsensical question.

>There's no reason to think anything other than "I am a chemical reaction in a primate brain made of atoms on a speck of dust floating through space..."
Unquestionably correct.
Unless of course you have something more convincing of the contrary than "I feel it" (as if humans don't feel all sorts of things regardless of what's true or not lmao).

>>22422829
>That's exactly what everything is, despite what any dumb "deduction" humans who know nothing about the universe made.
Then your own statement is arbitrary nonsense and I can stop listening to you.

>>22422787
>Plato
nigga...

>>22422838
That meme is only funny because it's only ever posted or brought up by people who cannot read a dialogue.

>>22422835
Yep.

>>22422844
Cope

>>22422855
Tell me one thing Plato said. If all you know about the history of western philosophy is a screenshot from r/4chan, then you probably should be quiet.

>>22422773
I never said my spiritual experiences were limited to belief. You seem to be thinking of faith-based religion.
And there is plenty of evidence; you're just not an honest seeker.
Your viewpoint is like a game of Monopoly trying to find evidence of players, and deciding that tokens moving between spaces, and houses/hotels appearing, is just a natural process that doesn't need to be examined.

>>22422806
That's a very limited view.
If I agree with you for the sake of argument, I put it to you that you dismiss the rules of pulp fiction at your own peril.

>belief =/= knowledge
>knowledge = sense data
>belief = feelings
Do niggas really? This is something you think when you're twelve.

>>22422874
>>belief =/= knowledge
Kinda correct, with some caveats.

>>knowledge = sense data
Not what I said.

>>belief = feelings
Not what I said.

In conclusion, learn to read.

>>22422883
>learn to read
You don't even read anything, so why should I listen to you? You just keep posting your own musings and don't even engage with what's being said. It's like listening to a 14 year old who just discovered nihilism.

Lads, as much as I enjoy activity in these threads, don't you think this discussion has gone on long enough? It's apparent you don't see eye to eye and I doubt further discourse is going to change that.

>>22422890
I've addressed every single point that has been made to me. Something I can't say about you guys.

You simply dismiss what I'm saying because you disagree with it, despite being the undeniable truth, and are accusing me of being ignorant for not having indoctrinated myself with the same made up retardation you got swindled by.

I'm still waiting for anything that would make me believe in anything paranormal. All you've given me is strawmen, insults, and "you just have to believe it without reason".

>>22422910
You're right. We're past the bump limit and I'm not going to continue in the next thread.

>>22422860
>just a natural process
It's exactly that. We are animals. Not the quickest, nor the toughest, but the most intelligent. We use that along with the tools we've made to build things. Where does spirituality come into it?
>that doesn't need to be examined
The more we examine it the easier it is to see that we're nought but creatures. You claim evidence of spiritual experiences, pray tell.

>>22422946
Again, you're blind & assume people claiming to have sight are making it up. I literally can't explain it to you.
And the spirituality comes from within, but you don't look for it, and lamely conclude it doesn't exist before you even make an effort. It doesn't require faith...it requires confront, and action.

>>22422959
>you don't look for it
Not him but most western atheists used to be religious and spiritual before abandoning their faith, simply by virtue of being born in religious families.
It's intangible, impossible to detect in any way whatsoever, and no matter how real it feels to you, it will always be exclusively in your head.

>people claiming to have sight are making it up
I'm sure you really believe it. You're simply wrong.

>>22422959
>it requires confront, and action.
By a person who can't discern between fact, deduction, and assumption.
Someone who can would never reach such nonsensical conclusions.

>>22422959
>Again,
I'm a different anon.
>you're blind & assume people claiming to have sight are making it up
I'm not saying that you're making anything up. Personally, perhaps emotionally, I'd like you to be right, but I can't believe any of it without evidence. I'd likely be more open to the idea if the world view I've formed, free from any "spiritual experiences" (something you've left rather vague), didn't conflict with any semblance of spirituality. Cause-and-effect runs my world and I see it everywhere I look, I've no gaps to fill with your hocus pocus.
>I literally can't explain it to you.
Then why argue about it? You go around calling others blind, yet you show no evidence. I can't fathom what you wish to gain. If I were to argue with you about the existence of something, I'd bring something to prove it.

I wrote over 3,000 words total yesterday.
It wasn't all for the same story.
How can I concentrate my energy?

>>22422990
>>22423014
The evidence comes from within yourself.
You keep demanding external evidence, which is an inversion of cause and effect.
Your viewpoint is that the physical universe has primacy; I'm trying to explain to you that you have primacy, but you won't make the effort to learn that for yourself.
You're literally a game of Monopoly arguing that there are no players, that the tokens move themselves through undefined "natural processes".

>>22423043
You autistically obsess over one thing to the point of only wanting to write about it.
Or you just pick one story and whenever you feel like writing something else you just sit in front of a wall until you feel like writing about the right story again.

>>22422935
>I'm still waiting for anything that would make me believe in anything paranormal.
Except I never feel inclined to explain it to you because I believe if it has not come to you yet, then it never will.
>All you've given me is strawmen, insults, and "you just have to believe it without reason".
Sorry, go read a theologist if you want a real discussion. I don't care about convincing people nor do I need an argument to believe in God.

>>22423060
>The evidence comes from within yourself
In what form?

>>22423066
Direct knowledge and perception.
But you'll never see it if you insist on keeping your eyes firmly shut.
Think of it as a sense that you've never tried to use...hence why I keep making an analogy to blindness.

>>22423063
The time and effort that went into your insults and strawmen could've been spent making a valid argument.
Evidently you care more about looking like an idiot than about defending your ideas.

>>22423043
Try not to have more than one project at a time. If you think of a new idea, be it for a new story or something new for story you've planned but aren't currently writing, then try to encorporate it into your current project. Sure, the setting and characters may differ, but use your head and grind that idea down to the basics if you must and put it in what you're working on, nowhere else. If a new idea is entirely specific to something other than your current project, then note it down but do not expand upon it.

>>22423076
How can you be so certain that whatever this internal "direct knowledge" (whatever that means) and perception is telling you the truth, and it's not just something your brain is making up, much like people have similar experiences with all sorts of contrasting spiritual beliefs?

>>22423077
I don't really care what you or anyone in this thread thinks of my anonymous posts. None of you read anything that I would consider spiritually enlightening, let alone quality writing. You already saw that Gnostics believe in people who cannot be shown the Light despite how patient you are with them. It's elitist by nature.

>>22423060
>You keep demanding external evidence, which is an inversion of cause and effect
No, it's how cause and affect actually work in reality. You have to invert them in order to justify your made up nonsense.

>>22423097
Yet you keep responding and arguing. Curious.
It really seems like you care about defending your beliefs but have nothing that isn't made up retardation, so you pretend that you don't want to argue when it's all you've been doing.

>>22423097
>the Light
Made up.

>>22423090
Because what I see comes true, even if it's not obvious (and even arrogantly dismissed) by others at the time.
>>22423097
It's not elitist. Have you not been reading this thread? It's sadly true. Yet I persist in trying, which you have to admit it not very elitist of me after all.
>>22423098
Your definition of "reality" is a physical universe that has primacy over you, when in reality you have primacy over it, but you've relinquished your control for whatever reason...possibly not of your own volition.

>>22423111
Here's a reality check for you...you've been like this for billions upon uncountable billions of years, you've made no upward progress, and it's all by your own arrogant choice. You're the primary source of your own suffering.

>>22423112
>Because what I see comes true, even if it's not obvious (and even arrogantly dismissed) by others at the time.
Care to elaborate?
Do you have any examples?

>>22423112
>Your definition of "reality" is a physical universe that has primacy over you, when in reality you have primacy over it, but you've relinquished your control for whatever reason...possibly not of your own volition
Any reason to believe that other than "I'm special, I feel it inside so it's true"?

>writing story
>not sure about key details in the plot
>feel very insecure and defeatist
It's normal to feel this way about the first draft as a rusty writer, r-right?

if anyone wants to talk about writing...
>>22423136
>>22423136
>>22423136

>>22423060
>Your viewpoint is that the physical universe has primacy
As someone who's knowledge, experience and, I suppose in this context, "beliefs" have all come from and have been witness to nothing but the physical universe, you've got me nailed.
>I'm trying to explain to you that you have primacy, but you won't make the effort to learn that for yourself.
Sounds a bit egotistical and self-serving for my tastes.
>You're literally a game of Monopoly arguing that there are no players, that the tokens move themselves through undefined "natural processes".
Again with the Monopoly analogy? We're in a writing general, could you at the very least attempt to make your point a little more eloquently. I must say, as far as metaphors go it's really quite vague. As is everything you've been saying. And you never answered my question before. If you can't explain it, then why are we arguing about it? If you can't explain it, then why are you trying to through useless comparison? And you claim spiritual experiences yet won't even provide us with anecdotes? I truly struggle with what you're trying to accomplish in this thread.

>>22423128
Any examples involve elements of my personal life and the people I interact with, so they're not something I'm going to share here.
Also, I sincerely doubt you're an honest inquirer.
I find it revealing that you haven't asked if I know of any way for someone in your solid, machine-like state of being can be brought to an awareness of something outside of the physical reality you're so enamored with.

>>22423142
>you've got me nailed
I'm trying to tell you there's more.
>sounds a bit egotistical and self-serving for my tastes
That makes me sad, but at least I'm trying. There are others in this thread that believe there's no point in trying to awaken a hylic.
>Again with the Monopoly analogy
OK...then you're a character in a book that doesn't believe that readers or authors exist, because they don't exist inside the book, and that the pages of the book are the only obvious reality, and everything else is made up. Do you like that analogy better?
I can't explain sight to someone that refuses to open their eyes, and you insist on keeping those lids clamped shut, in a misguided bid to avoid feeling "egotistical".

>>22423146
I've had this exact discussion literally hundreds of times, and have lurked discussions and posts about the same things thousands of times.
It's always the same made up nonsense.
Even when I used to be religious, and really felt my spirituality in a way that seems to be the same as what you're describing, it's always the same.
I think there's always a chance that I'm wrong, so I keep asking for evidence, or at least a reason to even think there might be something to spirituality that I'm ignoring, but none of you has ever brought forth anything other than vague made up stuff.
So forgive me for not having high hopes of getting a valid response from you, but my priority is to try and get a clear answer to "what makes him believe that?", which is why I keep prodding despite your vague non-answers.

>I find it revealing that you haven't asked if I know of any way for someone in your solid, machine-like state of being can be brought to an awareness of something outside of the physical reality you're so enamored with.
I would need to believe it isn't made up falsehood before even entertaining the idea of doing that, but if you think that has a chance of convincing me, then PLEASE tell me how. It would be the very first time something is able to push me towards your "side".

>>22423157
You have this information in your head about us being inside the pages of a book written by an author, read by readers, etc.
Where does this info come from, and how do you know it's true?

>>22423205
I think it's safe to say that anything that would shake up your machine-like mentality would be considered a threat, to be disposed of by any means necessary, including the employment of falsehoods, and so even if I told you how you could see outside your diminished viewpoint, you would fight it kicking and screaming, even at the expense of what you know to be true. You'd rather hold on to your beliefs that to admit you could be wrong.
>>22423209
It was an analogy. You're taking it literally. I'm trying to describe the concept of something outside your awareness.

>>22423112
>Because what I see comes true, even if it's not obvious (and even arrogantly dismissed) by others at the time.
Intuitiveness is often confused as some paranormal phenomenon. Sometimes it may appear clairvoyant or telekinetic, spiritual, or whatever. I think every case of intution seeming spiritual is simply the brain making use of past experiences, along with internal signals and cues from the environment, leading the person to think what they're going to think. Nothing out of the ether, just good ol' reliable cause and effect.

>>22423157
Do you like that analogy better?
I did and I appreciate the effort, but it's not that I don't get what you're saying.
>one character tells another "you're in a book"
How's he supposed to believe that without any input from the author? He may have written you to "see the light" but he hasn't graced me with such insight. I think you're trying to do a good thing here, but unlike you I've got nothing to grasp onto except this physical reality which I can see and touch. Until that changes I'll remain unconvinced.

>>22423246
My "intuition" has improved dramatically ever since I cracked the "spiritual awareness" problem that you firmly believe doesn't exist. Does that description satisfy you?
And to continue your interpretation of my analogy, no one "wrote" me to "see the light"; I did that on my own. And I would tell you what I know of ways for someone in your solid, machine-like state of being to be brought to an awareness of something outside of physical reality, but I predict that's something of a mental "third rail" for you, and would lead to you throwing an absolutely psychotic shit-fit. Even if you knew you were only hurting yourself, even if you realized you were dealing with a truth that superseded your old concept of what the truth was, you'd still shit all over it, because that's the nature of your mentality.

>>22423228
>"you haven't asked me the thing that would help you understand"
>"ok then please tell me"
>"i could tell you but i won't because you'd just reject it and lie and fight tooth and nail to avoid accepting it"
Funny how you assume everything that happens to be convenient for you to avoid giving any reason why you'd believe what you believe.
It really seems like you're the one who's fighting to avoid accepting the truth, which until proven otherwise, is that you believe in made up nonsense because you feel like it, and are too stupid to realize that your body can make you feel anything regardless of how true it is.
You believe in bullshit, and if I'm wrong you would've shown me in any of the many occasions you've had.
There's no point in continuing this discussion.

>It was an analogy. You're taking it literally
I'm starting to suspect you're trolling now.
I genuinely hope you are because to be so fucking retarded would be a tragedy.
Since I need to spell it out... I was using the same analogy as you in order to ask you about this information you have in your head about spirituality.
God damnit I'm not responding to you anymore.
I'm legitimately upset at having wasted so much time being patient with you.

>>22423268
>I did that on my own

>>22423268
>My "intuition" has improved dramatically
>Does that description satisfy you?
Of course not. It's entirely anecdotal, but hey, whatever works for you.
>because that's the nature of your mentality.
Perhaps, though I hope you don't hold me accountable, I'm only working with what I've got. Or as you might see it, what I "think" I've got. Maybe my third eye will open someday, and I'm open to it, but how can you teach a blind man how to see? We can't surpass our means.
To go a touch off-topic,
>I predict that's something of a mental "third rail" for you
Is quite a good analogy anon. I didn't mind
>solid, machine-like state
the first time I read it, but you're overusing it now.
What're you in the thread for? I'm not on about this theology discussion, are you writing a novel? Shall we start talking about that now? I imagine we'd have a quite nice discussion if we weren't just butting heads.

>>22423322
>Funny how you assume everything that happens to be convenient for you to avoid giving any reason why you'd believe what you believe.
It's not an assumption anon,
>"Because what I see comes true, even if it's not obvious (and even arrogantly dismissed) by others at the time."
He's a clairvoyant. Why should he offer you any insight when he knows you'll dismiss it?

>>22423322
Wow...a stunning lack of self-awareness. I predicted that contemplating this subject would touch a mental "third rail", and what do we have here? You're seething pretty hard. Did you even realize you were doing exactly what I predicted you would?
Since you're being a thoughtless jerk, allow me to do you a half-service.I know of good organizations that could take you from your "solid" mentality, to one of elementary spiritual awareness, but you don't deserve that knowledge. Instead, I'll tell you about a somewhat worse organization that, for all their flaws, can also do that, assuming you approach what they have to offer honestly. That would be the Church Of Scientology. Do what you will with this information, including seething about it mindlessly.

>>22423351
>It's not an assumption anon,
By definition it can't be anything other than an assumption, and he assumed the same exact thing about the other Anon (who's been much more patient and open minded than me) based entirely on the fact that we don't believe in the same thing he believes in.
I'm truly ready to accept any truth, so long as it's convincing, and believe me, I'd love it if what he says was true. I don't like my current worldview abd dearly miss the times where I believed in something more. But I can't convince myself of it without a reason, which is why I've been trying to get it out of Anons here without success. Much like what has happened every single time I've had this discussion. Every single time.
Weird for something that's supposedly true about life and the universe itself to not only be supported by zero evidence or even a reason to believe it other than "I feel it" or "I choose to pretend it's true".
What else am I supposed to conclude?

>he knows
He decides to pretend, in order to avoid the question,*

>>22423456
My spiritual practices have nothing to do with belief.
This artificial joining of spirituality and belief in your mind is not doing you any good.

>>22423419
>Did you even realize you were doing exactly what I predicted you would?
You predicted that Id react badly to your explanation, not to your dumb excuses for not giving it to me.
You're obviously very aware of the difference but you're being disingenuous and very troll-like. Conveniently, "see? I told you you'd get mad, you're not ready for my secret knowledge" happens to be the only thing you can say to avoid answering.

Besides, if I'm upset anyways, why not just tell me? What's the downside if I react badly? At least we're sure, and you can stop looking like you're making up excuses to avoid answering.

>thoughtless jerk
The things you're assuming about me are far more insulting than anything I've said.
Especially considering the objectively retarded shit you've been saying.

>allow me to do you a half-service.I know of good organizations that could take you from your "solid" mentality, to one of elementary spiritual awareness, but you don't deserve that knowledge. Instead, I'll tell you about a somewhat worse organization that, for all their flaws, can also do that, assuming you approach what they have to offer honestly. That would be the Church Of Scientology. Do what you will with this information, including seething about it mindlessly.
See?
You're avoiding the question and telling me to go to Scientology of all places.
Every post you make makes you look less and less serious, and it's hard to tell if you actually believe what you're saying or if you're just trolling.

And fuck me for continuing to respond.

>>22423470
You've been asked multiple times to elaborate, and you've avoided doing so every single time, saying vague things like "direct knowledge and perception", and "comes from the inside".

It's made up. You've made that abundantly clear.

>>22423505
You keep judging what I'm saying to be retarded, solely because it goes against your tightly-held overly-solid worldview. Your self-defense mechanisms are going (predictably) bat-shit haywire.
And telling you about Scientology wasn't a troll, despite all their obvious problems...the biggest ones being that they're way too expensive, and their us/them mentality that means someone is either their most loyal ally or their worst enemy, with nothing allowed in between. But they really can guide solid types to an elementary level of spiritual awareness.
>>22423351
Sadly, I'm a "Cassandra" style clairvoyant. I really wish I wasn't the world's worst salesman.

>>22423515
You're really sure of yourself. That isn't a good thing. You may want to look into the "Dunning-Kruger effect". Assuming you're capable of introspection.
The problem is that you keep asking for physical-universe evidence of something that not only exists outside the physical universe, but which exists inside you, if you can only find it. I've elaborated as well as I can, given your perceptual limitations and your outright hostility.

>>22423532
>You keep judging what I'm saying to be retarded, solely because it goes against your tightly-held overly-solid worldview
Nope. I've argued with people who hold very similar beliefs to yours and the things they said weren't retarded. I disagreed but they made me think "I can see why you would think that". Your posts and reasonings are clearly the work of an unintelligent person who very clearly doesn't understand what the concept of "truth" means at a fundamental level.
Not to mention how you argue to "win" like a troll does, as it's the only thing you can do when I've been probing each and every deflection of yours until you could no longer produce a believable (to you) excuse, so you started saying we wouldn't accept it (and we'd start acting like hysterical schizophrenics at your revelations lmao), we don't deserve it, etc.

>scientology
Literal scam. Beyond any doubt.
Made up batshit crazy beliefs by a former sci-fi writer. Auditing does nothing, Thethans aren't real, the organization records your secrets to blackmail you into giving them your money and time, and will stalk you and make your life hell if you go against them publicly.
I could go on and I'm not even into them.
Please tell me how these people can help me discover these truths you say I'm blind to.

>>22423548
>You're really sure of yourself
I keep saying "until you give me a reason to think otherwise", and you've given me nothing. I've been as open as I could've possibly been. Meanwhile you've never been open to the slightest consideration that you might be wrong.

Everything you accuse me of, you've been doing ITT much more severely.
Tragicomic lack of self awareness (that is, if you're not trolling).

>>22423548
>The problem is that you keep asking for physical-universe evidence of something that not only exists outside the physical universe, but which exists inside you, if you can only find it. I've elaborated as well as I can
I've also been asking for any type of reason to believe you, even outside of physical universe evidence. You've provided nothing.
The other Anon and I have asked you how do you know whether the spiritual knowledge you possess is true or just a misleading feeling, and you haven't responded.
You said you could lead me to open my eyes but decided to refuse to.
Clearly you haven't elaborated as well as you can if you're deliberately withholding the one explanation that would convince me.
What else am I supposed to think?

>>22423586
Most of what you've written here is an epic level of projection, but you'll never see it.
>belief
I keep trying to tell you it's not a belief, but you can't process that. Your machine-like "logic" won't allow anything outside of your worldview.
>Literal scam. Beyond any doubt.
You're far too sure of yourself, and for all the wrong reasons. I can't reach you. Never mind.
There is a not-insignificant possibility that you're a psychopath, but I wasn't trying to start a fight here.

>>22423623
>how do you know whether the spiritual knowledge you possess is true or just a misleading feeling, and you haven't responded
The hell I haven't. Epic deflection here.
I explained that my "intuition" (as you refer to it) has dramatically increased in accuracy since I improved my "spiritual awareness".

>>22423636
It's late here and I'm going to bed since it's completely pointless talking to you and your dishonest attempts at twisting my words in every post instead of answering the one question that would prove you right.
Goodbye.

>>22423505
>>22423623
>>22423586
I've run out of steam and can't keep talking to that anon. I think it's time you stopped too. He's had every opportunity and I think we've said all we can, let's not allow him to take another minute of our time. On to the new thread?

>>22423649
I admire your patience Anon.

>>22423646
You literally can't believe the answer lies within you, can you? Why do you insist the answer has to lie outside of you? It's maddening.
>>22423649
Sigh...I really hate arrogant atheists. They think they know everything, but they basically possess anti-knowledge, and as much as I'd like to drown it in the bathtub, there's still a white knight in me that wants to care about others. When will I learn?

>>22422873
It's a pulp author writing pulp advice for aspiring pulp authors. That's fine. It's a good book. But if you're writing Gravity's Rainbow or the Color Purple something, it won't do you much good.

>>22423752
I concede that.
But one still needs to learn the rules before breaking them.

>no spaces between em dashes

I seriously hope you guys don't do this.