/lit/ - Literature

>>22775745
>>>/his/

>>22775745
one might be moral without religion, but he won't taste the full fruit of morality because truth is subjective

>>22775745
euros tried to derive morality from philosophy, it didn't work

Might makes right.

>>22775745
Easy, you just need to have evolved to have moral intuitions which you follow to avoid feeling guilt. But feel free to invent a religion anyway to rationalize your inborn intuitions after the fact.

>buddhism isnt a religion
>buddhism has morality

another question?

>>22775826
what's your favorite day of the week?

>>22775845
All the ones that end in day. Read Marx.

>>22775850
stop following me

>>22775745
You can’t, but you also cannot have morality with religion.

>God said so!

So if an inventor makes an army of robots and programs morals into them, these morals become objective or absolute?

Religion is a spook
Morality is a spook

>>22775859
If an inventor created an entire closed universe and programmed morals into it then inside that universe, AND the inventor himself was subject to no higher morality, those morals would be objective and absolute.

>>22775867
i messed up my post, i will now close the thread

>>22775853
Go back to >>>/his/ or start talking about books. Read Marx.

>>22775865
The developed ego can utilize other spirits without being possessed by them. Spooking is a spook.

>>22775867
Again, how is that so? If God chose to create a morality based around maximizing love in the universe or hate, do you really think the second one would be moral simply because God created it? For something to be objective it should subsist and be independent of any subject, but if God creates morality it is completely dependent on a subject and is subjective.

>>22775894
Religion is just an opiate of the masses. Read Marx.

>>22775750
>religion
>animeshit
Japshits are the most atheistic vile subhumans on the planet earth amico

>>22775745
>The greeks
Fuck monotheism.

>>22775850
>>22775875
>>22775896
>Read Marx
This. Is. The. Best. Answer. In. This. Thread.

>>22775909
no one asked for your opinion hispanico

>>22775931
i though you were latino since they love this shit so much

>>22775915
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unknown_God
Hellenism bros we got too cocky...

Comes directly from god so religion is irrelevant to it

Tried accepting god exists beyond religion?

>>>/his/

>>22775745
Some sort of enforced social credit system like China or pseudo social credit system like twitter/linkedin in the west

>>22775966
That's not morality though, that's forced control. Oh wait......

>>22775985
Read Marx

>>22775894
>A TRIANGLE HAS THREE SIDES YOU SAY? HOW IS THIS SO?

>>22775927
>reading a bourgeois in 2023

it's like you're a woman or a negresse

>>22775886
There is no utility in either religion or morality. The utility is having other people believe in them

>>22776002
Retard, I asked how someone just making something suddenly makes their valuation objective when they are a subject.

Would be more like
>You say a triangle has four sides? How is this so?

>>22775909
nobody cares about what you think retard

>>22775745
Sir, this is a literature forum.

>>22775745
even with religion humans fail to be moral, imagine without it, they will kill each other in the street and rape whatever they want

>>22776202
Read Marx

by growing one's compassion and sense of sympathy and increasing intellect so that the mind is better able to understand what other people's worldviews are like,

in other words by learning and acting with compassion as we go about our lives and are given random opportunities to be compassionate
but also- and of equal importance- by conceding errors and failures

>>22775826
Buddhism is a religion

>>22776204
Marx created a slavery system, you are animal

>>22776244
it doesn't seem like a good one, compared to islam your religion is nothing

>>22776250
I don't care. Take this back to >>>/his/ and read Marx.

>>22775745
I feel strongly compelled to autistically respond to every one of these threads that I see but I know if I do people will start recognizing me and making fun of me.

It's tough, bros!

>>22776302
you should care less about what people think
and do what you really want

>>22775909
I care what you think, habibi.

>>22775745
Morality does not come from religion.

>>>/his/

>>22776259
I agree

>>22775745
Morality precedes religions by multiple millennia

>>22776765
Then go to >>>/his/

>>22776768
His sucks

>>22776780
I don't care. Go to the Bible discussion general or fuck off back to >>>/his/

>>22776788
/lit/ sucks now too why do you care so much

>>22776798
I don't care. Fuck off back to >>>/his/

>>22776803
you suck

>>22775824
I'm a mutant and my evolved moral intuitions are different, few other people are the same. This moral intuition is quite flexible, one could say its barely a thing.

>>22776816
Still don't care. >>>/his/ is just a click away

>>22775745
Left to themselves, good people will do the best they can and wicked people will do the worst. But in order for good people to do wicked things, you need religion. Refer to circumcision. No morally normal person would be handed a baby boy and immediately think of slashing at his penis with a sharp implement. But with religion, it becomes normalized.

>>22775745
you can have morality with God by having faith you don't need to be so religious

>>22775894
i like this opinion, looks very true

>>>/his/

>>22775745
Random person says something is morally wrong
Why do I care what their opinion is?
God says something is morally wrong
Why do I care what his opinion is?
Is it a punishment thing? That you believe God can send people to hell so that makes his morality more real somehow? That just seems like might makes right even if you assume God exists to punish people.

>>22775745
It's called be a decent human being chud

>>22775745
If you think you need religion to be moral, you are not a good person but a bad person on a leash.

>>22777101
>Why do I care what his opinion is?

you should care

>>22777173
Jesus appears to think no one is good.

And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth.” Mark 10:18, 20 ESV

The fact that you share a feeling with someone else is somehow more than simply a fact or simply a feeling. When you acknowledge another consciousness, and they acknowledge you, it's more than simply two unrelated subjective experiences. I haven't fully figured out what I mean by this but intuitively this seems to me to be in the right direction. Maybe this is what Levinas (never read him) means by 'the face of the other' as the origin of morality. But I wish I could articulate this sense more rigorously.

>>22777415
God bless you, I love you

>>22775957
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unknown_God
>according to the kike who wrote half the new testament
>a latin inscription says "be it a god or a goddess"
>therefore ancient europeans worshipped yahweh!
Ok retard

>>22775745
With NDEs. And NDEs are irrefutable proof of life after death, because anyone can have them if they come close to and survive death. And they are so undeniably real to those who have them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U00ibBGZp7o

As this NDEr described their NDE:

>"I saw how life never ends. I remembered the process of reincarnation is endless, wonderful and truly eternal. I witnessed my own spiritual evolution and saw that I had existed long before this present incarnation (where I am now a male human). For me, watching the process of living life, after life, after life unfold, was mind-blowing! I undeniably observed that I had lived an innumerable amount of lives. My NDE clearly showed me that these bodies (we now inhabit) are not the first and only time we have existed! I saw that our soul and spirit is ancient! I also observed that there is no such thing as death."

And importantly, even dogmatic skeptics have this reaction, because the NDE convinces everyone. So anyone would be convinced if they had an NDE, we already know this, no one's skepticism is unique. And the book in pic related is known to convince even hardened skeptics that there is an afterlife.

>muh brain chemistry

Neuroscientists are convinced by NDEs too. What do skeptics think they understand that neuroscientists do not?

>muh DMT causes it

Scientifically refuted already, and NDErs who have done DMT too say that the DMT experience, while alien and really cool and fun, was still underwhelming to the point of being a joke when compared to the NDE.

And NDErs say that the meaning of life is to learn to love and be kind and thrive here despite how hard it is in this world. So "morality" is being loving + the golden rule. But even Hitler went to heaven unconditionally so who cares.

Without morality, can one have religion?

>>22777537
>Without morality, can one have religion?
It actually helps not to

>>22775745
Consider the word "morality" itself. Derived from "mores", i.e., the customs, ways, and laws of a given people, whether civilized or primitive. Any group can have mores. What you mean to ask is whether someone can do or know "right action" or "right behavior" without religion. Doing isn't impossible, but the reasoning for it might either be accidental or habituated by rearing, pointing back to mores that happen to either be derived from religion or overlap (for example, murder and theft tend to be considered wrong by people of drastically differing religions or philosophical beliefs). Similarly, religious people can do wrongs that their own religion condemns. Now, the non-religious person does seem to run into trouble when it comes to reasoning about whether they know what right action or behavior is, since by and large the appeal is either to the predominant mores around them, or by accepting certain premises (e.g., that there are right actions and behaviors) that point back somehow to a religion (so accepting "do unto others..." without a ground beyond "it sounds nice", which may point, again, back to predominant mores perhaps having an origin in some religion). The only coherent alternative I'm familiar with are the claims that 1) wisdom is the highest good, 2) morality is fundamentally in the realm of opinion, but 3) insofar as wisdom and its pursuit are the highest goods, to do things like steal, murder, injure, etc. are distractions from that pursuit, and so 4) an inculcated behavior meant to emphasize wisdom and its pursuit will incidentally resemble moral action/behavior, but without any moral reasoning. Whether that's satisfying or not is another question.

>>22777475
If I die I just want to rest, I don’t want reincarnation

>>22775909
Yet their society has the lowest crime rate despite being atheistic. You hate them because they disprove your judeo-christian notions

>>22776202
That's stupid. A society that allows that will fall apart instantly. So by default, the only societies that you will see will be ones that enforce rules against that, whether they doit through religion or not

>>22775745
Morals come from necessity, it's that necessity that causes humans to put those morals in their religions. Anyone who thinks morals come from religion has got it completely backwards

>>22775909
Yet they have the most sophisticated society that is without street level crime around sex and violence. Yet the most Christian, the Americas and Africa, are amongst the most dangerous, rapine and violent.

Why is this?

>>22775745
They're the same game under a different name and context.

>>22775745
Eugenics