/lit/ - Literature

>>22920809
Did you actually read him? It is supposed to fall around 2200, but it would be around 2000 when the West would enter it's final stages, and a Caesar would emerge. He wasn't that far off.

>>22920809
Every Spengler thread must be a bait thread. Eternal truth.

Compared to the 13th Century of our era, I find no recognizable form of culture in the modern West. Televisions and plastic assets don't make up for it. Neither do sex performances at the theater. I no longer consider myself part of this society and I barely think any conscious man does.

>>22920809

>>22920856
The problem is that you don't go outside to actually participate in the culture. You just stay inside all day yearning for the culture of 800+ years ago.

>>22920809
>>the west has le... fallen
>2024 and still counting
He literally said a better title would be the completion or fulfillment of the West. The negatively translated title put too much emphasis on an aspect of his thought that was only there in part.

>>22920902
>>22920856
We have a new Culture, one in which television/radio has become the central and only artistic theme. For good or for ill, we have nothing in our world, or in history, that comes close to the reach, the support, the sheer resources it consumes to produce and of course the massive profits and returns one gets, be it fame, money or influence.

Read Imperium, it complements Spengler and Schmitt's work very well, as well as Carlyle and a few other earlier thinkers.

>>22920809
>itt anons who never grew up will complain that the west has fallen

>>22920902
I don't have to go outside to experience culture. Medieval castle culture was practiced in the castles, bourgeois culture in the houses. And the point isn't that I can't individually go and participate in culture, the point is that socially, there's less and less culture day by day. I'm talking about groups, not individuals.

>>22920856
That's the point of the movie Midnight in Paris.
There is always a golden age you can look back to.

>>22920856
Yeah, I think a lot of men feel this way. But Spengler correctly points out that we can’t choose to be born in any other time. We have no choice.

>>22920902
> noooo you can’t dislike modernity you must never go outside and are maladjusted for that reason
Do you have any idea how stupid you actually sound?>>22920943

>>22920902
> noooo you can’t dislike modernity you must never go outside and are maladjusted for that reason
Do you have any idea how stupid you actually sound?

>>22920943
The real tragedy of reading Spengler though is not that culture is all but gone but that the civilization we were supposed to have in its place is nearly as hard to detect. It’s a civilization, but a really gross and ignoble sort of one.

>>22920943
>Medieval castle culture was practiced in the castles, bourgeois culture in the houses.
Since this is a Spengler thread, none of these are things.

>The point is that socially, there's less and less culture day by day. I'm talking about groups, not individuals.
I don't think this is true, at all. The knowledge of prior (high) Cultures like Greco-Roman, Middle-Eastern, Mayan-Aztec informs our current Culture (Western). The Western Culture is the first Culture to truly dig and research in to history and make such available to the entire mass of the Culture. This may have resulted in a wildly different world-view, or a damaged and perverted one as it has been mentioned that the influence the Classical had on Middle-Eastern (given its proximity in time and location) prevented it advancing a truly unique Culture.

What can be said is the forms and symbolism that appear to us today are far cruder and less sophisticated as they are for a broader audience. Music, previously the domain of the Culture baring Strata of society was one the pinnacle of Western expression, now it is crude and manufactured by rote. There is a claim of artistry but it truly is not anything but refutation of what came before.

It is from a Culture that moved from the qualitative to the quantitative. A phase which Yockey suggests is a common occurrence in the undergang of a Culture.

>>22920976
Be the change you want to see

>>22920963
It's a hard black pill to swallow, but what follows from the knowledge of society in decline is that you have no obligation to stick to the societal norms and governmental laws of your country anymore, because they currently serve no other purpose than killing yourself and society. But I know most people will stay in denial and ride the rocket heading to the sun, because everyone is inside and partying at it.

>>22920976
>The real tragedy of reading Spengler though is not that culture is all but gone but that the civilization we were supposed to have in its place is nearly as hard to detect. It’s a civilization, but a really gross and ignoble sort of one.

No, it's not. The only tragedy is being aware that our perceptions can be compared and contrasted to previous Culture. Faustian Man had dug and unearthed alternate World-Views, and while we can not at all understand them as the inhabitants of these Cultures did, they can impart an impression which can ultimately damage us.

Read Yockey for a solution.

>>22920979
Half the thesis of the book is that individuals cannot change things. The civilization lives as a super-organism of its own.

>>22920991
You are a pseud. I bet you didn’t even read the full book. Yockey was an embarrassment by the way.

>>22920936
> Read Imperium
It’s dogshit for pseudo nazis

>>22920988
I don’t find that liberating at all. The idea that losing a dignified mode of life is in some way liberating or in any sense at all positive is ridiculous. You’re left to do nothing more than tolerate life in that scenario and I just don’t have the personality for it.

>>22920936
Still waiting on my new copy to arrive edited by that faggot Greg Johnson.

I really do appreciate how succinct Yockey was in describing the underlying metaphysics in Spenglerian thought.

>>22920978
>Music, previously the domain of the Culture baring Strata of society was one the pinnacle of Western expression, now it is crude and manufactured by rote. There is a claim of artistry but it truly is not anything but refutation of what came before.
How do we fix this?

>>22920936
> dude, read a bunch of proto-Nazis, I promise I’ve actually read them all and assimilated them into a coherent worldview that totally isn’t just blindly recommending writers NeoNazis profess to like without ever really reading them closely.
Where do you get off?

>the west has fallen... because no one wants to fuck me

>>22920997
>>22920998
>>22921010
Shalom mohel.

>>22921017
> predictably retarded /pol/ reply
Why are there so many of you idiots here lately? Are you not aware that this is a literature forum and if you want to sound smart or well-read you have to actually read? Read more. Hopefully you are young.

>>22920976
> It’s a civilization, but a really gross and ignoble sort of one
Came to the same conclusion, I call it 'the social monster' because of the monstrous aesthetic of it and the monstrous size of the societal chains necessary for it's mantainment.
>>22920978
> The Western Culture is the first Culture to truly dig and research in to history and make such available to the entire mass of the Culture
I see Western culture as just Romano-Germanic culture, like it was throughout the Middle Ages, with the history part just being added after the European nations became Imperial, but there's no reason to
believe that other nations behaved similarly during their very real Imperial eras. A Chinese or a Middle Easterner might use a car, a fridge, and other assets considered Western inventions, but in the end, they are just means to fulfill the needs of a Chinese, of a Middle Easterner, and not actually culturally Western habits. He uses his car to go the Bazar and the fridge to store halal meat; nothing implies that he has accepted Western culture in any form.
>>22921002
I don't mean that you have to stop being social and abstractly forming part in the society, or that you have to actively seek it's destruction, but to merely reduce it's authority to the lowest common denominator for it has no such authority anymore, governments loose the more energy and vigour the more a nation has become degenerate. If nowadays the governments gives you a fine when you don't pay your taxes, tomorrow they won't be able to do anything about it at all. This crucial phase in the decline of the West is very close to occur.

>>22921030
It turns out technology isn’t culture. Very nice discovery, American.

>>22921009
Great men need to emerge to challenge the Culture propagated by Liberalism/Marxism/Democracy and allow something new to emerge, what the new will is utterly unknowable but one can hope it would be something beneficial. As mentioned earlier, Yockey made the argument that in prior cultures there was not different provinces and areas and nations that made up Classical Rome, there was Rome and while there was conflict between the Grecian Polis' there was a unified Greek world-view and at many times a unified Greek people.

In Imperium, the well reasoned argument that Europe (the West) needs to unify in the way past cultures has done. Not in the way the modern European Union has, but under an authoritative united polity which can express a unique and new Cultural idea and fostered by Great Men outlined in the work of men like Carlyle.

>>22921046
>Yockey made the argument that in prior cultures there was not different provinces and areas and nations that made up Classical Rome
You actually believe that? Knowing this at least tells everyone else what level of pseud you're at.

>>22920968
>>22920976
>>noooo you can’t dislike modernity you must never go outside and are maladjusted for that reason
I'm not saying you can't dislike modernity, but the second half is pretty accurate. However, for all the complaining people here do about modernity, it seems they don't actually know much about it, or how it's really not that much different from what came before it. Old and middle-aged women still huddle about in groups to gossip; depending on where you live, they might even still be hanging out their clothes to dry; kids still ride their bicycles around or play games in the street, and scream at the top of their lungs and annoy all their neighbors; the stray cat still stares at you as you walk by; the dog still barks in the morning and begs to be taken on walks, and runs around the house happy when his owner comes back home; women still lie and men still lie, and both still hurt the other; the sun still rises and falls on us the same as it used to; the moon still shines in the night and fades in the early morning like it always has; people still argue, people still hate, we still go to war, just in different ways; we still get ant or moth infestations or get creeped out by a cockroach crawling on the floor of the kitchen; people are still usurious and greedy; we still look back on the past and say things were better then than they are now; we still look at our current situation and feel like it must be the worst it's ever been; we still look towards the future and think there is none; we still have get sick, we still get better; we still have bad days and good days; we still desire sex; we still desire mutual understanding; we still desire religion and we still hate religion; we still value beauty and we still hate beauty; we still talk about great men and poor men (the great men are still always the men we like, and never the ones we don't like); new discoveries are still being made; nepotism still puts people in places they don't deserve to be; I could go on and on. But really, it seems that most people rather enjoy basking in the doom and gloom of hopelessness and the glory of dead people and dead nations than living their own lives with pride, confidence, and strength.

>>22921046
>In Imperium, the well reasoned argument that Europe (the West) needs to unify in the way past cultures has done.
“It needs! It should! It must!”. Petty artificial constructs, not unlike trannies. I’m surprised the “smartest” board agrees with a loser like this.

>>22921030
>I see Western culture as just Romano-Germanic culture, like it was throughout the Middle Ages, with the history part just being added after the European nations became Imperial, but there's no reason to believe that other nations behaved similarly during their very real Imperial eras.
I'm unsure what you mean by Romano-Germanic, saying as Germanic culture was one of the few that was preserved against Roman authority. Germanic culture (again, not Faustian in the sense you are using it) was born out of the dark gothic forests of Europe (specifically Germany) and from which grew the urge to cross out and into the darkness, to barter with the unknown for more. If we're discussing things in Spenglerian terms, we need to be clear about what is meant.

>A Chinese or a Middle Easterner might use a car, a fridge, and other assets considered Western inventions, but in the end, they are just means to fulfill the needs of a Chinese, of a Middle Easterner, and not actually culturally Western habits. He uses his car to go the Bazar and the fridge to store halal meat; nothing implies that he has accepted Western culture in any form.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Nothing here is related to Culture, Culture is the all encompassing world-view. What one feels, thinks and even how one thinks. How one approaches technics, politics, power, the way one conceptualizes metaphysical concepts. Simply using a fridge or a car is unrelated to these no more than the plough was to past Cultures, at least it is not relevant beyond how it removes the possibility of soil-boundness or natural connection.

Given that Faustian man strikes for dominance over all that around him, including nature, all modern conveniences serve to further lift him up above nature as to better control it.

>>22921076
> Germanic culture (again, not Faustian in the sense you are using it) was born out of the dark gothic forests of Europe (specifically Germany) and from which grew the urge to cross out and into the darkness, to barter with the unknown for more
I mean the founders of modern Western culture by excellence, the Frankish tribes under Chlodwig I.

>>22920809
>Pretending China isn't invading Taiwan within the year
Mutt cope

>>22921067
> things happen therefore you have to love modernity
You are such a pseud it’s unreal

Next thing you’re going tell people their political opinions are wrong because crickets still chirp at night.

>>22921046
Surely, this civilization of top surgery and video games will produce great men.

>>22921102
Why do Anglos care so much about Taiwan? It’s rightfully part of China.

>>22921065
>>Yockey made the argument that in prior cultures there was not different provinces and areas and nations that made up Classical Rome.
A badly worded sentence on my part, there was provinces and areas and more but there was no competing nation-states within the polity that was the Roman Empire or Republic. There was Roman and there was non-Roman. There was not multiple provinces of modern-day Italy trying to usurp, compete and fight against Rome's supremacy. After the early wars with the Etruscans they never rose up and maintained a separate polity in competition with Rome through its lifespan.

>>22921069
>Read a book
>Tell you what the book is about
>Get mad at the book
Your crude argument of comparing everything you don't like to tranny mindset reflects on you than on others.

>>22921094
We're using Culture differently. You saying the Frankish Kings and Christianity are central to the formation of Faustian man and Western Culture?

>>22921030
I got what you meant. I still don’t find this consoling, at all. I find it suffocating, and boring to the point of depression.

>>22921105
>>things happen therefore you have to love modernity
That's not at all what I said, but it's clearly what you wish I would have said.

>>22921114
> You saying the Frankish Kings and Christianity are central to the formation of Faustian man and Western Culture?
The Franks, inspired by the legacy of the Romans, were the first ones who attempted the creation of a unified European Empire.

>>22921067
Sounded insightful at first but then when you went on about the sun rising and setting and cockroaches you revealed you didn't have a clue which examples you showed were actually important. And good god did the rest of the message sound like some faggot proto-basedboy blogger from 2008 and his attempts to be quirky

>>22921116
not him but as opposed to what, as specifically as you can

>>22921114
>Tell you what the book is about
You’re agreeing and shilling the arguments. Way more than just telling us about its contents. Rome fell. Whatever artificial construction you come up with will also fall. That’s not a “good complement to Spengler”.

>>22921147
Don’t you think that’s a bad question? You’re basically asking me to imagine an alternate reality.

>>22921116
Read literature that espouses Authoritarianism and Nativism. That is the only solution.

>>22921164
There is little I can say to convince you of anything. So I will focus my attention on those who may feel and think similar to >>22921116
and suggest a book that helped me overcome my contempt and dislike of the world I see around me in the hopes that it lifts their spirits in the same way it has me.

>>22921116
You don't need to find it consoling, or negative, or positive, you are better off dealing with it as an objective fact, that by 2050, or perhaps 2090, any conceivable governmental institutions in the West will be gone, and the nations will be fallen into negative anarchy.

>>22921168
I'm just curious what exactly you're longing for and the things you may have seen in books, movies, videos, life etc. that led you to those preferences.

>>22921172
Okay. Read whatever fantasy helps you cope with your hopelessness.

>>22921110
It's a measure of American empire, hence the concern.

>>22921046
The Caesars and the world empire don't solve anything, they just trigger cultural winter and begin mass standardization.
They are doomed from the start.
They and the second religiousness are a desperate attempt at revival, to relive the old glory. But nothing truly changes, architecture grows secular and banal, art atrophies and creativity ceases. Everything crystalizes into pre-fabricated forms, architecture becomes gigantic to compensate for its shallowness, art become ssomething of provincial craftsmen. The culture turns into a gigantic museum to itself. It's people sink back into barbarity.
The caesars slowly devolve into cruder and cruder despotism until the empire at last gives out and the civilization enters perpetual stasis.
Whether it collapse or endure, nothing new will come from it.
Tl;dr: Le based CHVD IMPERIVM is a mirage and you are playing right into Spengler's timeline. Same for the Twitter chuds who believe Faustian civilization could survive in space.
>>22920809
Read spengler, fag.

>learn about Imperium
>think “this shite could’ve only been written by a retarded burger”
>I was right
Americans making up power fantasies about Europe will never not be funny.

>>22921138
Every last one of those examples is important, because they all return to culture. Thousands of years ago the men of ancient Greece were bemoaning the death of Cretan pottery and saying that all their contemporaries were losers. It's ridiculous how you'll see people quoting "Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times..." all the time, yet it still doesn't register to them that it's all cyclical and that there is of course still hope for the future.

>>22921190
isn't the emergence of technology to the extent that it has inherently a product of Faustian worldviews? Wouldn't any civilization, baring total collapse, need to necessarily adopt the same mindset if it's to be competitive?

>>22921201
Ok, but do you want to be the oppressed serf in the eras yet to come, like did the Romans go from conquerant founders of states and bringers of laws, to the absolute sheeple slaves that the Italians should become up until the 19th Century, the constant playtoy of Longobards, Franks, Burgundians, Swiss, Germans and Austrians that they became throughout the Middle Ages. You Sir, you are displaying absolute slave morality.

>>22921204
>isn't the emergence of technology to the extent that it has inherently a product of Faustian worldviews?
Yes
> Wouldn't any civilization, baring total collapse, need to necessarily adopt the same mindset if it's to be competitive?
Not necessarily, Russia seems to be doing fine. The barbarian cultures (Africa, SEA, arguably Latin america and Polynesia) seem to be doing fine enough.
Faustian civilization exhausts itself like any other. It's technology will stagnate, it will stop making new things and turn into a shrine to itself.
More than anything I'm worrying we are running out of places for new cultures to emerge. And new barbarian people's to create those cultures.
Also, call them cultures. In Spenglerian terms, being a civilization means your culture is close to death.

>>22921225
They think they will be emperors and aristocrats lol

>>22920809
>still counting
Still counting for it to be rebuilt? So am I.

>>22921225
>You Sir, you are displaying absolute slave morality.
In what way?

>>22921229
I really doubt technology on the level even seen in Africa can exist in some stagnant stage without inherently improving. That level of technology requires a high degree of globalization which necessitates prompt improvements. Either you reduce technological progress back 500 years or by sheer natural selection the surviving technology will propagate itself again, somewhere, more efficiently. It doesn't seem like there's any escaping it.

>>22921190
>The Caesars and the world empire don't solve anything, they just trigger cultural winter and begin mass standardization.
That is directly said in the books. Caesarism arises during the transition from Culture to Civilization, which is the creative and vital exhaustion of a Culture, its energies now spent it sits and grows slowly lesser over time

The only part you are wrong is when you conflate Authoritarian (Non-Liberal, Non-Marxist, Non-Democratic) systems of government with crude Caesarism and Despotism. There is nothing to presuppose a new Culture can arise out of what we have now. Even if it begins as a Moonlight Culture like Japan.

>>22921194
By all means share some insights.

>>22921231
Does 'House of Hohenstauffen' sound Italian to you?

>>22921254
Every great culture that declines becomes a slave nation more or less immediately afterwards. India, conquered numerous times, even by Greeks, Assyria the first civilization, Iranians, Egyptians, Greeks, Turks, have many cocks under their belt, Egypt declined from civilization to province to colony, Greece became Roman province, Italy became conquered by Germanics.

>>22921201
The sun and moon existing don't return to culture. You said a few insightful things (though ultimately incorrect) and then started huffing your own fumes and started writing out that cliche garbage like some Onions boy climaxing in front of a camera.

>>22921269
Yeah, of course. But how am I displaying slave morality?
>>22921270
>The sun and moon existing don't return to culture
Now I know you're just an idiot.

>>22921277
> But how am I displaying slave morality?
You want to build your own prison, essentially.
NTA.

>>22921277
> Yeah, of course. But how am I displaying slave morality
You say history is cyclical and there will be greats after the Westerners, but why exactly do you want to give up the greatness of the West just like that?

>>22920809
If Napoleon was our Alexander and the two Great Wars were our Punic Wars, then Hitler was our Fabius Maximus. And the Caesar will come when Whites are minorities in their own countries, around 2080 I believe.

>>22921290
> Whites are minorities in their own countries
Lol

>>22921204
No, the technic (that being the way in which something is utilized) in which it is applied and utilized in a Culture is what matters. If technics are use to make life trivial that will result will be detrimental. The emergence of technology is not itself Faustian but the central means by which Western Man uses it to assert his own authority over things is very Faustian.

An example
Faustian man understands how soil works and thinks of it as a chemical reaction and that to get better soil one needs to simply increase potassium and then moderate the abortion of it with another chemical thereby achieving mastery over it. Now the individual might have varying views on technology and technic but the group gestalt collective feeling is what directs action. He understands the damage he does to the soil in this method but has no choice but to continue doing so as the world-view he is within demands it.

If the technic of soil improvement was used as a means to compliment farming it may gradually affect the Faustian mindset and move towards a more natural means of living, not entirely dependent of technology.

>picrel mentions and disagrees with some aspects of Spengler.

>>22921313
> he doesn't know about the Council of Cannstadt
Most genocidal actions against Germanics were done by Germanics themselves. Ausrottung is very Germanic.

If cultures are like living organisms then they have natural instincts. They have to wake up organically and by themselves, not because some book says so. I do think Europeans will wake up some day but only after they had been pushed too hard and possibly cornered. But they will not proceed to create some pan-European state. That’s only a fantasy in the mind of rootless American right-wingers. Each European country has its own individual identity and needs. Fascism had an artificial academic/intellectual foundation and it failed miserably. This Imperium shite is not any different. It’s doomed to fail because it’s artificial.

>>22921117
That is what you said. You are a pseudo precisely because you don’t even realize that’s what you said.

>>22920809
I think his conception of cultures as organisms is just fundamentally wrong. "Western civilization" as we define it today is basically just a collection of countries that have the most power. They are all liberal cosmopolitan states who control everything. They have little in common with any linear path of Greco-Roman heritage. They don't even have much in common with their actual cultural heritage no matter the country. Germany for instance is an absolutely buck-broken liberal pacifist state that has actively worked to dismantle its culture.

>>22921325
Culture, with a Capital C. Not cultures. Culture is a world-view (typically) covering a huge area and a singular group of people. Influenced by their environment and acted upon by their will and intellect. Culture, Capital C, does not affect clothing, food, accent or similar surface level aspects of culture. Hence why in the last 400 years, perhaps longer, every single European people contributed to whatever movement was happening, from Christendom to the Enlightenment. Their world-view is the same, despite superficial differences.

The only exception if Russia/Slavic who's innermost goal is to be a refutation of Faustian man, to destroy it or reflect in a mirror something that they had done.

>>22921258
No new culture has arisen out of a fellaheen people as of yet.
Especially not befire the previous culture died.
>>22921255
>I really doubt technology on the level even seen in Africa can exist in some stagnant stage without inherently improving.
Why?
>That level of technology requires a high degree of globalization which necessitates prompt improvements.
It just necessitates complex systems mantaining themselves.
>Either you reduce technological progress back 500 years or by sheer natural selection the surviving technology will propagate itself again, somewhere, more efficiently. It doesn't seem like there's any escaping it.
Technology itself is not Faustian, silly. Technology is an object.

>>22921289
>>22921284
I'm not saying there will be greats "after the Westerners", I'm saying just what I said earlier. "It seems that most people rather enjoy basking in the doom and gloom of hopelessness and the glory of dead people and dead nations than living their own lives with pride, confidence, and strength." I don't see how I'm displaying slave morality by being sick of all the whining and despair. There IS a future for the West. Taking it as a foregone conclusion that the West must fall is the same as giving up the greatness of the West.

>>22921350
> They have little in common with any linear path of Greco-Roman heritage
Spengler considers Greco-Roman civilization and Western civilization as different entities btw

>>22921350
> They are all liberal cosmopolitan states who control everything
They couldn't even stop Russia from invading Ukraine.

>>22921352
Latin america is also developing a faustian offshoot autism culture.
Or will, eventually.
I am fully willing to debate why it's not faustian.

>>22921364
Because they went for the passive aggressive Jewish route of “sanctions” rather than declaring war properly. And America went for the “proxy” war route.

>>22921361
> Taking it as a foregone conclusion that the West must fall is the same as giving up the greatness of the West.
I'm a single individual, and even though I strive for greatness and glory in a way perhaps exceptional for modern standards, I can't change how one billion human beings act and think. I have accepted it as a fact that, despite my actions, the West is going to shit, maybe you can tell me what future you see for this but I don't.

>>22921355
>No new culture has arisen out of a fellaheen people as of yet. Especially not befire the previous culture died.
True enough, and it may never happen. But I don't see that as a reason to not work towards it.

>>22921376
Latin American is a moonlight culture, in that it gives of no light of its own and simply reflects the greater light from America. The light in this case being what we know and see today as Faustian Culture.

>>22921364
>They couldn't even stop Russia from invading Ukraine.
They could, but the destabilization of Europe is the goal here. To stop Russia would mean the end of destabilization.

>>22921382
They aren't doing anything because they fear the Russian giant, are you blind? Putin is attacking Ukraine less because of geopolitical reasons than in an insult against the West as a whole. Am I the only one noticing that Putin is doing this spitting into our faces? Soon he will attack a NATO country because Putin is willing to take the risk and WW3 will break out. He barely sent 1/3 of his standing army to Ukraine and another 600 thousand volunteers priorly not in the army joined the fight. There's a potential 10 million warriors in Russia currently riht now.

>>22920809
>2024 and still counting
Yeah, it's been over a hundred years since the west fell. What are you trying to say?
>>22921390
>Putin is just intentionally losing to make fun of the west!
I don't understand why you would think that a sane man would do something like this. Or in the case of you thinking of him as someone mentally unwell, why you would support(I am assuming you do this) him.

>>22921412
Stop with the politifagging.
>>22921385
I disagree, latin america's america worship could be said to be pseudo-morphosis. or Just normal merovingian/barbarian imitation.
If you engage with the art of this area, it's thoroughly unwestern and unfaustian.

>>22921412
> I don't understand why you would think that a sane man would do something like this
Because he's openly and uncovertly performing an imperialist invasion war on Ukraine that aims at no less than the complete annihilation of the Ukrainian government and the submission of it to Russia as a province under it's rule. He's insulting the West not in that he's doing the attack, but that he's totally getting away with it.

>>22921428
> If you engage with the art of this area, it's thoroughly unwestern and unfaustian.
False.

>>22921439
I disagree. Please explain yourself.
Because this is /lit/, what Latin america literature have you engaged in? And what Faustian thing did you see in it?

>>22921428
I'm Texas, which may not give me an accurate representation of it. But knowing more than perhaps the average Westerner I think I have a fairly accurate grasp. When you mention Worship, do you refer to the manner in which they prayer, very Folk Catholic in manner with votive offerings and localized saints, or do you mean the fastest growing religion in Latin American, Santa Muerte and all related concepts?

For the average hispanic, they are following in the Western tradition, although historically lacking many of the Great men that made Faustian Man dominant because their socio-political system (almost exclusively Marxist/Communist), they may have precluded themselves from a future they did not know they could embody.

Specifically, what art are you talking about?

>>22921449
Hi Texas, stop posting Brazilian dudes.

>>22920902
This is such a stale and outmoded characterization. Lemme guess, you think le 4chan people lurk in their moms' basements, right? It ain't 2007 anymore grandpa, most anons are normies or normie-adjacent. They do go outside, and outside is fucking shit.

reminder that there is literally no evidence that any of the "degenerate" trends happening in the west today is causing any sort of decline or collapse as people claim. america just hit record numbers of migrants last year. everyone still wants to come to the west instead of their shitty countries lol. rightists are idiots

>>22921447
Now that you mentioned it I changed my mind

>>22920809
Surprisingly pretentious midwits that run from any kind of objectivity are usually incorrect

>>22921474
I don’t see the contradiction. Those are separate issues.

>>22921022
>if you want to sound smart or well-read you have to actually read
>refuses to read certain authors
>including Carlyle of all people lmao
like pottery

>>22921474
How long do you think that relative economic superiority is going to last?

>>22921467
Have a Spaniard, Mohel.

>>22921474
The decline is creative, not economic. It is the move from quality to quantity. The reduction of everything to the lowest form possible, the reduction of complexity in the arts and philosophy.

>>22921490
forever

>>22921497
Maybe 20 years at best. Did you perhaps not notice the massive economic downturn that has occurred in the whole west in the last few years?

>>22921449
>When you mention Worship, do you refer to the manner in which they prayer, very Folk Catholic in manner with votive offerings and localized saints, or do you mean the fastest growing religion in Latin American, Santa Muerte and all related concepts?
Sorry, I meant the latent amerophilia that schizophrenically co-exists with visceral hatred of the U.S. around here.
But if we are talking about religious pseudo-morphosis. Protestantism mostly coming from the american branches (Evagelicalism, Pentecostalism) is a growing religion among the poor of Latin America. By 2040, they'll be the majority in Brazil, for example.
>For the average hispanic, they are following in the Western tradition,
I disagree, I never see any yearning for the infinite here. Neither do I think they have the same sense of space or power.
> although historically lacking many of the Great men that made Faustian Man dominant because their socio-political system (almost exclusively Marxist/Communist), they may have precluded themselves from a future they did not know they could embody.
This is wrong.

>>22921497
Can't run a business if there's no state stopping straggling hordes of robbers to loot everything they find

To what extent are Jews responsible for the creative decline?

>>22921491
Fair, but that's not the interpretations Rightists have. They predict apocalypse. Total collapse. They post every single day on social media about the communist tyrants subverting the West from within to destroy it. They make no concession that the West will still be the dominant power despite cultural decline. They predict war, chaos and anarchy, which is fucking stupid and unreasonable.

Why can’t Europeans just shoot up the boats full of African hordes and deport the ones who managed to get on land?

>>22921525
They are too high off their smelly libshit farts.

>>22921013
Almost half of zoomers do not fuck or date. That is historically unprecedented. What is the critical mass for the situation to change from "individuals are failing and its their own fault" to "civilization is failing individuals"

>>22921525
Camp of the Saints explains the reason better than I could.

>>22921490
When an event causes a financial meltdown and hyperinflation hits the West. Financial system collapses.

Or

Weather conditions utterly destroy the ability for mass produced foodstuffs globally, grain dies in the field and animals die. Industrial farming collapses.

Not sure which of these is more likely.

>>22921503
>The latent amerophilia that schizophrenically co-exists with visceral hatred of the U.S. around here.
So it is following in the Western world-view.

>Protestantism mostly coming from the american branches (Evagelicalism, Pentecostalism) is a growing religion among the poor of Latin America. By 2040, they'll be the majority in Brazil, for example
I'm struggling to work out why you think it is not a Moonlight Culture, one that adopts and grows out as a lesser version of another greater Culture. Like Japan is to China.

>>22921511
Not the reason, but their group behavior has certainly hastened it. In Imperium they are named as Culture Distortorers as they still embody the Jewish (Magian) World-view which they have preserved within their community and which prevents them from assimilating, which in turn caused them to persecuted, which in turn led to growing resentment and the wish to inflict harm upon the West.

>>22921515
The West is not the dominant super power in the world, we are now witnessing a multi-polarity world. Which was the goal for many nations outside the West, which is a direct weakening of America as the only super power. Further, despite the ability to project force, it would appear America has systemic problems which prevent it actually utilizing that force, not least of which is a disgruntled population.

>>22921525
Because all lives are equal in the Faustian man's eyes. There is no wish to preserve one life at the cost of another. Lifeboat politics has not yet been broached

>>22921175
These things are hard to articulate because we’re talking basically about a sense of being, but for me, it is a sense of the impossibility of a certain sort of life which I would consider both dignified and noble and those are the essential things for life in my opinion. This is a civilization where human things are changed in increasingly inhuman ways, where people are sheperded into large institutions and care taken by “Human Resources” (which itself reveals the attitude), where the only things that are really sold to young men are being careerist hustlers and strivers - kissing ass for university degrees as better or worse universities prestige-wise or making money, either as an entrepreneur or a laborer. Even traditional religion is undermined, mocked, subverted, literally made gay and battle looks a lot more like a terrible car accident than anything in the history books. And speaking of history, that is the best rubric. History tells us what can be offered. Does anyone really feel that our time lives up in any way to history? We have these great machines and vaccines and we live longer lives and yet we are perhaps the most irrelevant people to the history books that have ever lived. But the icing on the cake is that in spite of all this, it’s not even like we really enjoy our lives in these wonderful material conditions. Rather, we live in cities filled with crime, poverty, drugs, broken up concrete, roadways littered with trash, our food supply is literally fake, I could go on and on. So when you call it a preference, I just have to push back on that because it’s not really a preference. It’s this really deeply rooted intuitive sense that something is deeply wrong and this is all fucked up. Let’s not even get into how literally is (literally or figuratively) dead so if you find anything worthwhile in that woe to you, since this is a literature board and that topic has been beaten to death.

>>22921172
I don’t have contempt for the world. I’m just disappointed with what it offers us.

>>22921201
To acknowledge that some things are cyclical to the exclusion of acknowledging that others aren’t is just ignorance.

>>22921269
And if Spengler is right, then Westerners will commit suicide or become thralls of the Russians.

Spengler threads are pointless because the handful who read his books seriously and aren’t /pol/seuds left at least a year ago and the “heh you think you’d be an aristocrat wel trans modernity is awesome” crowd pops up like a perennial.

>>22921546
I cope with deleting social media (except 4chan) and never reading the news just occasionally looking at the TV news and even that sparsely. I moved to some outback outback countryside village in the Balkans pretending the outer world does not exist. I did not graduate high school, I joined a chill unregistered work gang to earn my daily income. I do not obey in any way or form. I plan to return to my home country in the West in a few months and cause as much chaos and upheaval with my individual actions as possible. If I go to jail for living as a free man, so be it.

>>22921549
I will continue to recommend authoritarian literature, as it was from within there that I found a good expression of what I would want to embody and encourage.

It may not be popular, it may not materialize in my lifetime, it may not be welcome but I don't see politics as having been completed by the imposition of Liberal Democracy, sooner or later Authoritarianism (in some form) will reappear and the artificial bubble that surrounds the West may eventually burst.

>>22921564
I suppose that’s one way to go about it but it’s not appropriate for all of us.

>>22921566
Great. I will continue to not listen. I don’t think your replies are very thoughtful and I really doubt you are very well-read or wise. I can appreciate the sincerity, but I think some humility is called for. You went a rec from me? Read through Ernst Jünger. I think you’ll be willing to do that…

>>22921619
> I suppose that’s one way to go about it but it’s not appropriate for all of us
What alternative do you offer? Live your life, do what you want, fuck materialism, money and taxes, and face the consequences. Cause national news if possible.

>>22921619
I have, I strongly recommend his interwar writings and opinion pieces which I think better represent his views. Especially when considering the threat of Victors Justice. Sadly most of his non-fiction has yet to be translated from the native German.

>>22921619
>Disappointed in modernity
>Offers alternative tradition
>Immediately rejects it without consideration
>Why does society not improve?
>Modernity wins again

>>22921623
I don’t know you’d expect me to offer an alternative. The nature of these things is that they’re practically inescapable.

>>22921633
You would, because you don’t read enough of this author or any other author or in general. He considered his interwar writings childish. That’s why I recommended him to you. You’re supposed to read those and move on to the rest and better understand them. Just read more.

>>22921643
Moving to some village in the Balkans is not “an alternative tradition” but I could imagine you shouting this in Kosovo while it got bombed by American planes.

>>22921648
> I don’t know you’d expect me to offer an alternative. The nature of these things is that they’re practically inescapable
What are the physically weak, cognitively disabled, troon, gay and nigger positive libshits going to do about it? I call it doing a 'Putin', deliberately ignoring the legislation of your country with the utmost reprehensible for the satisfaction of one's own needs without fear of consequences.

>>22921653
I did this in revenge to the oppressive insurance system in my home country and to sign myself off of my home country. I am about to receive 2000 bucks from my insurance for having left the country. When I return I will not pay insurance even though it is mandatory.
I'd call it a 1:0 for me against modernity.

>>22921648
I really do not wish to get in to a contest of who has read more Jünger, but I will place one of his last novels, Der Waldgang, above the rest. It is far more easily read as a critique against the Post-War Germany rather than as a Pre-War Germany. Especially given his allusions to a small minority bringing down a majority, as well as half a dozen other references to the East.

>>22921352
Russia is a completely different Culture.

>>22921922
Russia was unique and alone in its expression until several years after the Soviet Revolution. After the revolution and things settled for the Russian people Spengler was curious as to what shape the Russian/Slavic people would shape their future in to, there was plenty to support that it would be fully capable of forming a unique Culture, sadly it did not. Killing all those with an IQ in triple digits did not help. Thus now it is a Moonlight Culture, reflecting dimly the light emanating off nearby bodies.

Russia is a dead and empty husk.

>>22921937
I'm unconvinced that it's dead.

>>22921668
Write the laws

>>22921702
The forest passage isn’t remotely close to the the last things he wrote. He was barely middle aged at that point. And it wasn’t the fascist polemic you seem to think it was.

>>22921679
I suppose but if modernity really wanted to come for you it absolutely could. Hell, if you were American you’d still be expected to pay taxes.

>>22921545
>So it is following in the Western world-view.
No it is not. The weltanschauung is different and the art is completely different.
It is derived, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's "moonlit". There's a spirit struggling to be born there.
>I'm struggling to work out why you think it is not a Moonlight Culture, one that adopts and grows out as a lesser version of another greater Culture.
Faustian culture obtained christianity from the Magians, this does not, however, make Faustian culture magian. The civilizations influence eachother and adapt different things.
You can adopt a religion from another Culture and make it yours. Like the Japanese did Buddhism.

>>22921361
vital masculine cultural spirit
>>22921381
dried deterministic spengler kike fellating feminine decadent nigger

>>22920902
i have participated in the "culture", which isn't really a culture, other than drinking and doing drugs like a degenerate and being a narcissist. if you actually find fulfillment in these things you must be a nigger. take a look at the streets of big cities, which resemble 3rd world shitholes more by the day. instead of religion indoctrinating your children, there are a bunch of loser faggots and pedos obsessed with their assholes and perversions teaching children about fisting and anal lube, in the name of "love".

the books my grandpa read, he was more or less an average working man, were far beyond the reading comprehension of today's commoner. the average person today doesn't even have the ability to focus for long enough periods of time to read an actual book (random YA sci fi doesn't count as an actual book btw)

>>22921013
leftist projection

>>22921381
get money and skills and go join a rural community and buy acreage and home that is actually affordable, the people there are extremely based/redpilled. they are armed to the teeth, have lots of children, self-sufficient and are often openly hostile to non-whites too, it's amazing.

/// He was agonizing over the moral issues involved /// The team returned disconsolate from three losses /// This had many drawbacks including the added pressure on peewee-aged players (12-year-olds) /// Reading it, you can't help pitying the hapless little girl trapped in the crossfire of a bellicose and bitter split /// There are patches of mildew on the walls /// Sand spits are an ubiquitous feature of sandy coasts with prevailing oblique wave incidence and associated strong littoral drift /// He had been a strict father but was indulgent toward his grandchildren /// Later they discussed the topic more fulsomely /// This illustrates the common error of considering the basolateral amygdala as isomorphic with fear /// Within a staple, fibres were separated by removal of adhesions and twists, then stretched along ruler to straighten crimps /// Had he but known the agony of spirit his daughter was experiencing he would have returned posthaste to Philadelphia /// Alongside the cards, this kit includes forceps, a Petri dish, dropper, tesh tube, blank slides, prepared slides, lens paper, and more /// He has warned some of his more gung ho generals about the consequences of an invasion ///

>>22920936
>The negatively translated title
>Untergang des Abendlandes
>the going under/downfall of land of the setting sun

>>22924137
>He says in his works that the completion or fullfillment of the West would have been more accurate.

>>22921564
>I plan to return to my home country in the West in a few months and cause as much chaos and upheaval with my individual actions as possible. If I go to jail for living as a free man, so be it.
You're a loser. I'm actually in the same position as you, I regularly visit my home village in the Balkans to maintain family relations and cultural ties, but we work hard and have pretty successful lives as immigrants. We put in a lot of effort to keep our identities in them midst of Western homogeneity. Clearly you don't attempt the same, you just want to express resentment like a child

>>22924448
The difference between you and me is that I am a Westerner while you are some Macedonian larper or whatever.
It wouldn't be something new to you or your ancestors, among the Greeks too there came a point where a Greek was no longer a Greek, a Macedonian no longer a Macedonian, but a Syrian or a Persian larping as one.

>>22924463
I'm Albanian, my people have been around for a millennia and we will outlast the remnants of the West. But what have you done, coward? You surrender to the depravity of the West and become a part of it

>>22921564
>and cause as much chaos and upheaval with my individual actions as possible
Are you a nigger?

>>22921562
This. All the high class posters have left and are replaced by 3rd worlders.

>>22924471
I moved out of my home country temporarily to learn about other cultures and to get $$$ back from my insurance (money that I paid to the insurance while outside of the country).
When I return to the West I will act against the law by not paying insurance and leading a free lifestyle and I will openly speak out my political opinions.

>>22921007
How the fuck did you find this picture?
Is it in the FBI files about him or something like that?

>>22921007
The man was by all accounts a very gifted individual. Well educated, highly intelligent. A man of action, order and thought.

>>22924474
> Are you a nigger?
What persisted the longest, in France, even during the times it had already become fully Latin, last expression of the Germanic elements, was disarray.

>>22921259
io quando faccio la guerra più disastrosa del tempo e perdo contro dei borghesi italiani
εγώ όταν κάνω τον πιο καταστροφικό πόλεμο της εποχής και χάνω από τους Ιταλούς αστούς
me when I wage the most disastrous war of all time, get my familiy killed, bankrupt the kingdom of sicily, get excomunicated and lose against Italian bourgeois

>>22921190
Who cares what civilization survived in space. Do any humans survive in space is the important question. If they can the the number and kind of civilization in space will be almost endless.

aww man

What does the complete edition of this book have that the regular edition doesn't?

>>22920809
sex gifs

>>22920809
This is one of the greatest books ever written.

>>22920978
My interpretation of Spengler, in spite of any glimmer of hope, is that there is nothing to be done. This is the natural life cycle of a culture.

>>22927362
Read Yockey, his reasoning for a ethno-nationalist pan-European polity arising is convincing. Especially in the current year. Kikes and their golems will no doubt attack this concept

>>22921009
We don't.
It's over.
Parsifal was the culmination and peak of millenia of continous organic cultural growth.
We are now in a long-winded process of decay.

>>22921046
I'm not trying to be the leftoids' advocate but all that leading up to
>And THAT'S why we need authoritarianism
makes it seem like moot points to come to the presumed desired conclusion

>>22920936
>read imperium
JFL

>>22928164
I am that anon but have no clue what you are trying to say.

>>22921566
No one reads that shit anyway. Your kind is publicly shamed and metaphysics in history is 90> iq

>>22928184

>>22921102
My bet I son march/April, based solely on preparatory news headlines I've started seeing a few months back, which seem to be literal copies of Ukraine-themed headlines from late 2021.

>>22921229
>The barbarian cultures seem to be doing fine enough
You're so deep into your copes you're fully delusional at this point.

>>22920809
it has entered its finas stage, the decadence can take a thousand years
anyway read a calculus book you fucking nitwit, a faustian man needs to understand calculus don't be a retarded ayrab desu

>>22920978
is it weird I can only cum inside my gf if I am thinking about the affirmation of the will to live as embodied by siegfried in the ring?

>>22920809
>Russia will be the next great rising nation to watch...
yet can't even take Ukraine in a 3 day special military operation

>>22928331
Yes your only pleasure in life should in fact be listening to the climax of the prelude to Tristan und Isolde.

>>22928334
a million churkas are not much of a price to pay
and 2-3 years is nothing, it took them about 200 years to conquer ukraine the last time

>>22921361
What you lack is the core ingredient of the worldview those anons you're arguing with have - depression.
Their folly is thinking it's due to external factors, so leave them be. Unfortunately, you cannot save the unwilling, no matter say you say and how hard you try. Though being an example could help motivate some who are not too far gone.

>>22928339
>conquer Ukraine the last time
so they can't even reclaim territory they lost. Yea i'm gonna say that Russia is definitely not one of Spengler's successful predictions

>>22921412
>>Putin is just intentionally losing to make fun of the west!
Imagine thinking this while your own currency devalues while attempting to punish some le ebil foreign dictator through sanctions and whatnot. Why should Putin stop your elites who are destroying their own middle class? The war doesn't impact Russia itself nearly as much. He even got most of the recruits from the Asian steppe mystery meat reservoir, something the west is still trying to import from ME/Africa, since any government in the west that even starts openly talking about a draft falls overnight? Country too, there is not a single western country it's people are ready to fight for, they'll just up and leave more quickly than Ukrainian women or Syrian rocket scientists kek.

>>22928352
pay attention!
2 - 3 years
it took france 50 year to take back alscasce-lorraine

>>22924478
You are literally dumber than an Albanian for typing your fantasies out on a public forum, but that would be if they were anything but fantasies of a resentful depressed kid. True revolutionaries do shit, they don't admit to fantasizing about potentially doing shit, that's one of the few ways you make sure you'll fail before you even start.

>>22928358
no you pay attention. Russia is DONE.

>>22928373
I'm not a revolutionary, I want to return to the early Middle Ages

>>22928331
>>22928337
The real Rhinegold was the nut we rubbed out along the way.

>>22928355
Putin's job is to destabilize Europe, this is historically all Russia has ever done as if it is their innermost expression of life. From the Tsar through the Soviet Empire to the broken kleptocracy they rule over now. He is a golem of the kikes that rule over the West now, one who's support play's in to the hands of the system as much as support for Ukraine does.

>>22928355
>Imagine thinking this while your own currency devalues while attempting to punish some le ebil foreign dictator through sanctions and whatnot.
Not at all. It's helped my country much and done not a single bad thing to it.
>Why should Putin stop your elites who are destroying their own middle class? The war doesn't impact Russia itself nearly as much.
It is causing civil unrest, decreased industrial production, international backlash, destruction of private and public property in both Ukraine and Russia, loss of life, highly skilled military units, expensive military equipment, and with each passing day the Ukrainians hate Russia more, which will make Ukraine an expensive colony filled with potential rebels, assuming of course Russia even manages to conquer it. Russia has everything to gain from annexing the whole country in a short period of time, and everything to lose from stalling out the war without reason. The Russian forces are clearly aware of this too, when the invasion first began they put all their forces and effort into rushing Kiev, clearly attempting a fast occupation of the country, which was the only way to take annex Ukraine without significant damage of some sort or another.

>>22928498
>with each passing day the Ukrainians hate Russia more
nothing a bit of indiscriminate mass slaughter can't solve

>>22928498
Literal headcanon supported only by the western media.

>>22928498
>>22928548
>>22928553
All slavs should be pushed in to Asia and beyond the Ural mountains.

>>22920809
>autistically pursue universal suffrage despite being post-Christian
>colonize space

Which way Westoid man?

>>22920936
>t. become a commie spy to own the jewish libs

There has always been low culture, and the question for the future is indulging merchant classes that have overstayed their world historic welcome or consciously commit great wealth and effort to hedging man's bets across the stars. We have and will have the technology to do it, so we may as Faustian well, and if it requires crushing the last dregs of the ComIntern by force of UFO grade arms, so be it-- and sooner the better.

>>22928646
>Says America will ultimately do more damage to Europe than Russia
>Was proven correct

All the Nazbol shit is based on a mod for HOI4, there is nothing in his writing or talks to remotely suggest that he was symptomatic to Communists, or Russians. He explicitly condemns them both as being outside the European Culture.

Schmitt also features heavily in his writings.

>>22921543
What does it say?