/lit/ - Literature

But I'm writing it

>>22931529
Read Greek classics and use them as inspiration for your genreslop instead. Write genrekino.

>>22931505

>>22931505
I think anyone that’s honest about fantasy (and I say fantasy because it’s the only genre I’ve read enough to where it’s intellectually honest of me to comment) admits that it’s easily consumable entertainment without much substance in practice even if it isn’t necessarily in theory. I still read it though because it’s interesting to me. I’m more annoyed by the people here who haven’t read much fantasy who insist on having takes on it anyways though, I bet you can’t even correctly identify why fantasy is so garbage

>>22931549
>I bet you can’t even correctly identify why fantasy is so garbage
have you?

>>22931549
Fantasy by itself isn't garbage, it's the "authors" writing recycled goyslop that have become so prevalent that the genre has come to be identified with said slop
Tolkien, Martin, Sapkowski, Moorcock, Robert E. Howard, and many others did by no means write garbage

>>22931549
I've read quite a lot of fantasy and probably will read some more at some point but many books are very similar. Often there is nothing interesting happening it's just fantasy because of weird sounding names
>Xalandor was exploring the ruins or Ur'Gabush, the cellar was swarming with lompats
yea, that's just a guy seeing some rats.

>>22931598
Average page of a modern fantasy book these days:
>Yrku the Wise, son of Arku the Strong whose father built the Bridge of Tears in the Fifth Era of Darkness when Tupor still ruled Fumia with injustice and cruelty thanks to the power of his mighty sword Uyy-na'rin and his magic Oyalinian armor, was on his way to hunt some Jekko goblins in the old city of Yumuleth founded by Muya-T'len who was [...]

>>22931596
>Martin
Asoiaf would be better as just a political book series imo. But I think it's still good and to me it shows what makes a good fantasy book, they basically should have enough substance that they would almost work if they were set in the real world, the fantasy elements can then add a bit extra.
A boring book with boring magical creatures doing boring things is still not good.

>>22931596
>Martin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6keZIUJBsQ

>>22931612
ASOIAF's weakest is the ice zombies, honestly. If there were any other looming apocalyptic threat, such as some inexplicable magically caused natural calamity, it would work much better and the defenselessness of the world of men would have much more impact. Still, its world's relationship with magic and fantasy elements is pretty much in line with what the real world would look like if said things happened to exist, which is why it's so good as opposed to the whole work of Brandon Sanderson.

Maybe I'm missing the point but I wish world building wasn't such a big part of fantasy writing. I truly don't give a shit of the metaphysics of your world and how magic works, I just want to see a quirky cast of characters go on a journey together.

>>22931619
Perhaps not as good as the rest I listed but still good, no?

>>22931634
Honestly I'm not sure where my dislike of the man personally ends and my actual critique of the books themselves begins at this point. So, maybe?

>>22931558
Yeah, it's pretty obvious if you think about how fantasy literature is produced in practice and by whom

>>22931612
>Asoiaf would be better as just a political book series imo.
That already exists. It's titled The Accursed Kings by Maurice Druon. Martin read Druon's books and added dragons and magic.

>>22931639
The man is worthy of disdain, but the book not as much I think. They are well researched, grounded, and use fantasy elements where it is appropriate, which is a far cry from the works of other goyslop retard writers with muh magic system and Sanderson's laws.

>>22931549
Where does Terry Prachett rank? Slop or no-slop?

Le carre unironically mogs dosto

I think what people know by "fantasy" is just epic fantasy. That formulaic genre where you have to create le map, le world, le language (optional), le races, etc etc. It's all just making bad copies of Tolkien endlessly. I fucking hate that genre. I wish other kinds of fantasy were more popular.

>>22931665
Will sword and sorcery ever make a comeback?

>>22931650
Mixed. He wrote well when he wasn't under pressure to churn out a new Discworld novel every year. Small Gods is brilliant, and Only You Can Save Mankind and Hogfather are both quite good, but much of the rest of it isn't really anything.

>>22931650
He has soul so I guess it depends on if your cut off line is if a book has to be in the same strata as solid literary fiction or if well made enjoyable entertainment with heart is enough to not be considered slop. I think the thing I despise about Fantasy is that there's so little artistic ambition among fantasy authors which I'll admit is a fairly schizophrenic demand when it takes a very special kind of autist actually pull off "Literary" fantasy

>>22931541
Legitimately good advice. Way too many writers draw from the here and now and stay in the box. The greats draw from outside the box and they are usually well read on actual literature as well as the history of their genre.

>>22931633
Fantasy authors could really do with understanding Iceberg Theory, but then again the genre is usually encouraged to pad its pages out with exposition and lore.

>>22932428
It's more like they try to reinvent calculus but only make it to a shitty version of differential equations that doesn't quite work. I think great writers pull from somewhere else outside of influence but damn if most of it isn't some mythology and a play or two thrown in a blender.

>>22931672
Why can't we give it a comeback?

>>22932440
Nobody wants to write, but if you do, here's how to do it.
https://www.paper-dragon.com/1939/dent.html

>>22932454
Ah yes. Weirdly enough I read Doc Savage novels here and there but I never read one of his short stories.

>>22932469
I might bang out 2500 words of pulp before I go to bed. Probably closer to 1000 but we can do a thing. Probably wont end up being a thing but whatever. /wg/ is a more stable place to post.

>>22931505
>>22931541
Where does genrekino start and genreslop end?

>>22932501
I know slop starts when your MC and friends are introduced as archetypal characters. If I can place your characters in a box, if you intended me to infer characteristics into your guy because the median MC has them, your work sucks.
Japanese media is criminal in this aspect, pretty much everything they produce is like this. So is Korean stuff. I don't read Chinese cultural exports.

>>22931505
no

i'm one of i think many people today who are not entertained by it but am entertained by stream-of-consciousness type novel about some loner or schizoid.

>>22931505
Enough about Cormac McCarthy

>>22932729
Japs love their archetypes so much it's insane. But with how prevalent it is, some have managed to refine the craft and turn slop into kino. Berserk is one example.

Read Reverend Insanity.

>>22931606
Keep going, I wanna know how it ends

>>22934349
McCarthy is Melville when compared to genreslop such as Chandler or Tolkien

>>22932428
How is being great legitimately good advice? Being Colleen Hoover is good advice, not writing well.

>>22934670
>Berserk is one example.
shut the fuck up

>>22937048
You can't argue Berserk doesn't stand out amid the archetype obsessed Japanese productions.

>>22936931
You have down syndrome and that is expected of a McCarthy fag who can’t stop seething about actual highbrow writers. Enjoy your middlebrow writer along with Murakami and Ishiguro

>>22937190
Berserk is standard fare, edgy grimdark fantasy. The only reason people consider it so good is that it was edgier and darker than the other fantasy anime and manga available at the time. "Berserk is good" is a perfectly fine statement, but it's the only fucking manga /lit/ talks about, and it's repulsive.

If an anon says they think Berserk is a great manga, I immediately lose all respect for them.

>>22937487
There's another GREAT manga

>>22937497
>putting books between volumes
Why are you doing that? Stop it!

also Yu Yu Hakusho was my gateway anime. I am fully aware of Togashi's qualities.

>>22937505
YYH is standard shonen schlock though

>>22937487
>>22937505
I don't see why you shit on berserk but suck off HxH. the two of them along with vagabond are probably the greatest manga writing and paneling/art wise.

>>22937507
Oh no, it's just more subtle. There are a lot of very interesting scenes and conversations, and motivations. It goes out of its way to smudge and reverse the demons evil/humans good dichotomy that is most prevalent in the genre. But of course, first and foremost it's a tournament fighter anime.

>>22937513
I don't suck off HxH. It's an 8/10 manga, and I don't see it mentioned nearly as often on /lit/. Regularly, but nowhere near as much as Berserk,

>paneling/art wise.
Like I said, I am fully aware of Togashi's qualities- I'm also fully aware that he's a lazy trash goblin who spent an entire run of the manga not drawing any backgrounds and only scribbling the characters.

>>22932501
Genrekino = Percy Jackson
Genreslop = Harry Potter

Stop adopting catstlop

>>22937487
Therefore my claim that Berserk is ONE example, and also one people here are most familiar with. Vagabond is I think superior though.

>>22931606
I have a rapidly growing distaste for "magic systems". It's reached the point to make want to projectile vomit on the face of anyone who uses the term favorably

>>22931505
Make me

>>22931606
Kek

>>22931644
by writing and by white men?

>>22931596
>Moorcock
well I concede that it's not slop. It's merely bad and boring

>>22931606
>you will never know what happened to the Jekko goblins
why live?

>>22931505
Fiction is just video games for pseuds.

>>22942382
/thread