/lit/ - Literature

It's pathetic how both leftists & rightists want to claim Nietzsche for their political projects.

>>23110168
>the censorship and destruction of a great many texts against anti-Semitism, the German Reich and Pan-Germanism;
Jewish lies

>>23110178

Someone has to do it you mong. Otherwise Nietzsche's just some pithy jizm that has no purpose, the opposite of what eg Novalis demanded from Philosophy. With an opinion like that you should get figged by a hot coal

>>23110168
The anarchist reading of N is the most retarded possible, because Nietzsche literally calls anarchists idiots.

>>23110277
That only means Nietzsche is a pathetic sophist. Real philosophy doesn't need to be appropriated.

have you ever noticed how literally every time Nietzsche is discussed it's about how someone is misunderstanding him

Nietzsche's overman is the sovereign anarch to the leftoid anarchist last man. To read him otherwise is cope.

>>23110178
It is, these people have not "become".

>>23110297
ok smart guy, you try explaining him.

>>>extreme
Make everything you write get ignored with this one easy trick.

>>23110178
It's beyond me why they crave his approval so much. Let that faggot rot.

>>23110168
Nietzsche’s philosophy is probably completely a-political.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nietzsche-moral-political/#NietLackPoliPhil

>>23110168
It‘s funny that they cite just reading Nietzsche without doing mental gymnastics about what he says as a low IQ interpretation.

>>23110426
> in other words, it is individual attitudes not political structures that are Nietzsche’s primary object (“The ideas of the herd should rule in the herd,” says Nietzsche, “and not reach out beyond it” [WP 287]). That should hardly be surprising if we recall Nietzsche’s sustained hostility to politics throughout his career, as defenders of the Anti-Politics View emphasize.

I go with thus

>>23110168
Only Catholics can understand Nietzsche.

>>23110404
I honestly couldn't, that's my point, it's just a bunch of his thoughts jotted down, there's no central thesis that I can tell, mostly just barely intelligible criticisms of the society of the time and somewhat schizo ideas about classic literature and history

>>23110445
Elaborate

>>23110168
I feel like it should be mentioned that the guy who wrote that book everyone quotes about the Will to Power being complete fantasy by his sister was a communist.

>>23110404
You have to understand that Nietzsche is an atheist, a nihilist, a postmodernist which appeals to a lot of liberals and other deeply neurotic teenagers because Nietzsche is the achievement of the secular humanism which booted Christianity out of power. Nietzsche is overtly anti-christian, and it permits to all the atheist bug men to actually see themselves as the righteous resilient guy who create his own values.
In effect trannies are the best ubermen ever: they hate to see themselves as they really are, so they change both their neurotic spirit and also their body to match the narrative of the ubermen and even better, they impose their values to non-trannies. Same thing with feminists and all the idolized minorities in Humanism.

Naturally, the atheists cant know right from wrong, so their mental gymnastics about the uberman is flawed. The uberman is actually the last man: the uberman despises so much reality after seeing nihilism, that out of resentment for reality, the uberman CHOOSES to sink further in his delusion by building a narrative where he is not the last man, but actually the opposite, ie the uberman who creates his own values, ie cooming by living in own brain farts until he dies.

Oh and by the way only atheists take him seriously in the first place. Atheists love him because according to them, he found a way to be nihilistic without leading to suicide. In order to avoid being called a nihilist, friedrich PUSSY nietzsche re-defined nihilism to be 'not living in the present moment', which applies to christianity.
So now atheists dont say they are nihilistic, they say they are vitalist. And as a bonus they get to shit on christianity (their perpetual enemy that they defeated centuries ago, yet they still beat a dead horse to smugly fill up their days). You have to understand that atheists are braindead hypocrites so even when they say they are vitalist instead of nihilistic, they still remain 100% hedonistic and they still dont know what not do with their lives beyond making up self-aggrandizing narratives to feel justified for wanting to and actually doing coomming all day long.

>>23110168
Sounds agreeable. There are two kinds of anarchist in my eyes, and Nietzsche certainly fits the definition of one of them. He doesn't jive with the communist kind, but he does jive with the capitalist kind, since the latter still believes in, and even relishes in, inequality and competition. But the inequality of the anarchist differs from the inequality of the fascist in that the former emphasizes the individual's desires while the latter emphasizes society's needs. Thus, the anarcho-capitalist is a hyper-individualist who sees everyone as unequal beings with varying strengths of will driven by a plethora of desires in conflict with one another, which is a picture of life closely resembling what Nietzsche provides us with his descriptions of the will to power.

>>23110669
Not the anon you replied to but I feel like a main reason of his popularity is that he is by far the most successful non-liberal philosopher. So when people grow tired and disgusted by the status quo, as everyone sensible does sooner or later, he is the biggest lightning rod to their frustration in the philosophical landscape, the first stop towards elsewhere.

>>23110432
if you read Nietzsche you would know high iq uberfolx don't care about citation or valid interpretation, considering those are part of the traditional christian ethic.

>>23110676
If you are still thinking in -ism-s and -ist-s, how one kind of -ist is superior to the other, you did not get him.

>>23110688
I didn't say anything about one being superior to the other, and I recognize that these are invented categories. Although, Nietzsche did like the coinage "aristocratic radicalism" given to his work by Brandes. Sometimes you ought to relax and enjoy the labels people give to things.

>>23110168
Niche is a waste of time, and he was a loser in every sense of the word in his life. Must be why he's so fascinating to other losers.

>>23110669
>Nietzsche is overtly anti-christian
That's not actually the case. He simply recognized the "death of God" and attempted to move forward from it. The entire idea of the übermensch is one whose values come from within rather than without, because God can't give us meaning any more. He's not really a nihilist and more of a proto-existentialist.

In Also Sprach Zarathustra, he even names priests, and particularly the Pope, as one of the predecessors to the übermensch.

>>23110731
Dumbest pilpul.

>>23110669
>waaah the atheist sissies defeated my based and redpilled christianity
i got bad news for you

>>23110178
We should all hold hands in a huddle around the grave of Father Freddy

And then wrestle

>>23110168
>Yet, historically, the feebleness of this reading is perceptible in the fact that it has required the falsification and censoring of his manuscripts: the assembling and invention of a book he never wrote
this describes the whole history of philosophy, though: it's actually all pious fraud and it's pretty obvious if you think about it

>>23110736
Cope

>>23110826
>Hat man mich verstanden? Dionysos gegen den Gekreuzigten!

>>23110669
I read the first paragraph then got the sinking sense I’m reading the thoughts of a fucking retard nowhere near as intelligent and interesting as Nietzsche (regardless of the merits/demerits of Nietzsche’s conclusions), as well as one whose brain is rotted by 4chan memes (“bug men” “trannies” etc.), so I stopped reading.

>>23110850
The most pathetic posters are those who diagnose others with 4chan brain rot while posting on 4chan. Homo habilis tier self-awareness.

>>23110292
It has to serve a purpose. Being a sophist would entail the opposite.

>>23110168
Antidogmatist is the only adjective I’d amend to the writing of Nietzsche

>>23110874
You sound very confident for a retard.

>>23110688
Categories exist for a reason, neurotypical

>>23110876
As i should be. After all, highly intelligent people rarely if ever continue their bloodlines

>>23110676
>There are two kinds of anarchist in my eyes, and Nietzsche certainly fits the definition of one of them. He doesn't jive with the communist kind, but he does jive with the capitalist kind
Nietzsche has had his admirers on the anarchist left. Emma Goldman's boutique publishing house put Nietzsche's writings front and center. But the way I see communism (and fascism by and by, I suppose) is that they did uplink into the Absolute, or at least tried to as much as they could, and in this sense they were sort of answering Nietzsche when he said "where is God? What are the new values?" So socialism in a sense is pre-modern because it didn't recognize relative human truths (or at least placed an absolute above them), and didn't allow a societal fracturing and atomization, or at least tried as much as possible to prevent this, which means the USSR etc. were utterly doomed once they pursued liberalization. They killed "God" if you substitute "God" for "the truth of socialism," and the exact same fate would have befallen Nazi Germany if they'd won the war and attempted to liberalize in the coming decades.

>>23110862
I may be a hypocrite but I still have a point. You can browse this place, post here, have your mind provoked in sometimes worthwhile ways, without becoming the nadir of a wojakposter/soijakposter/Pepe-poster making everything about le funny memes, bait threads and posts, using the same old canned insults and basically thinking in the exact same manner as thousands of other posters here while imagining oneself to be “a rebel”, “unique,” “not just another NPC normie”, etc. etc.

Another trait of these shitposters is that they are almost constantly and inevitably tearing everything and everyone down instead of having anyone or anything to praise. That is to say, online shitposting is almost inevitably characterized by its mechanical NEGATIVITY about any topic, subject, thinker, figure, writer, etc. who’s brought up. Yet the figures they tear down are also almost just as inevitably more worthwhile, interesting, provocative and intelligent than such shitposters. Bring up whoever you want — Dostoyevsky, Nietzsche, Faulkner, Shakespeare, Proust, McCarthy, Plato, and so forth, and absolute losers who could never make works anywhere near as good as what they’re criticizing (and probably without even having read much of it) pop out of the woodworks to spew their shit everywhere, like a dog pissing and shitting in a fountain of rosewater.

>>23110168
>blonde-haired brute
What is it a metaphor for? Don’t tell me it’s a lion. That has to be the most embarrassing footnote in the history of literature. Even the fags on reddit disown it. The blonde beast is simply the blonde beast: based Nordics wreaking havoc! I’ve read the first essay of the Genealogy several times and not once have I detected some “secretly liberal-friendly esoteric message” behind it all. Leftists seem to think Nietzsche promotes Christian values while doing away with God and Christianity. As if Nietzsche is promoting some sort of atheist-secular Christian value system. It’s like BAP and friends calling everyone “moralfags,” yet magically becoming moralists when it comes to Hitler & co. It’s all the same and misses the point.

>>23111062
In his later works he contradicts the Nordicism though. I think it's just something he picked up via Gobineau perhaps.

>>23111076
I’m not sure if Nietzsche was ever a Nordicist, I just wanted to point out that his reference to the blonde beast is not a metaphor. Reading everything that contradicts your political position as a “metaphor” is disingenuous.

>>23110168
>Yet, historically, the feebleness of this reading is perceptible in the fact that it has required the falsification and censoring of his manuscripts
Hilarious to see a leftist argue
>they must be wrong, because they felt the need to censor!

>>23111111
Well it's certainly a metaphor in the sense that he's not literally talking about blond beasts but about men. I'm not sure if that's what the author means though.

>>23111111
witnessed

>>23110168
>or then a literal reading of Nietzsche’s vocabulary: “masters,” “slaves,” “aristocrats,” “will to power” (as a desire for power and domination), “overman” (which would suppose, therefore, the existence of “undermen”); etc.
This is one of the most ridiculous copes in all of philosophy. If you somehow read Nietzsche and walk away thinking everything he says is a metaphor or that he didn’t genuinely despise weaklings your reading was pointless
>the assembling and invention of a book he never wrote (The Will to Power)
Yes he did, the vast majority of this book are his posthumous notes and the parts that were altered are pretty minor. The anarchist parasite who wrote the shitty book you’re reading is just coping because Nietzsche calls for slavery and domination in explicit wording in this book.

>>23111121
>in the sense that he's not literally talking about blond beasts but about men.
Haha, true. But you know what I’m saying.

>>23110168
>The extreme-right interpretation
>reading the words he wrote, as he wrote them
Leftists are fucking retarded lmao

>>23111124
>Yes he did, the vast majority of this book are his posthumous notes
I read on Quora that there was a study conducted in the 2010s that shows that everything in the Will to Power was written by Nietzsche and not altered by Elizabeth. I never tracked down the study so I can’t verify it’s claims, but apparently such a study exists. The Will to Power is a fun book, and while I usually can’t stand Kaufmann, I must say that I do appreciate his translation with Hollingdale.

>>23110755
It's what he'd want...

>>23111168
She didn't alter anything but the entire thing is quite disjointed and might contain some stuff that Nietzsche never wanted to publish.

>>23111185
I agree. They’re notes compiled from the Nachlass that he never intended to publish. Several sections suffer from the note-like quality. Still a fun read, though. It’s here where Nietzsche “lets loose” so to speak and drops his “master race” ideas.

IIRC Nietzsche also calls for race mixing and such in WtP. Overall an unhinged book.

>>23111111
checked

>>23111111
Nice

>>23111111
Leftoid "nietzscheans" BTFO by digits. Based as fuck. Michel Foucault on suicide watch

>>23110178
It's pathetic how a young man thinks himself above current political struggles while spending most of his time on a chinese cartoon website

>>23111574
Nietzsche's philosophy doesn't fit any
contemporary political ideology no matter how much you contort it. Aristocratic hellenism has no place in the information age. All that remains of Nietzscheanism is self-aggrandisement and larping.

I don't understand the all or nothing attitude some people have. Nietzsche doesn't need to be right or left for people on the right or left to utilize some of this ideas and you don't need to agree with everything he has ever said to agree with some of his ideas

>>23111610
There are central ideas to his philosophy that you can't just brush aside.

>>23111619
the only central idea of any importance is that christian ethics and axiology don't necessarily carry over when you abandon god. this can be used to argue a wide variety of positions.

>>23111631
Lol no.

>>23111111
Digits aside, you're right. It wasn't a metaphor. It's really obvious that he was a biological determinist. If his constant attributing of cultural and psychological characteristics to whole ethnic races doesn't clue you in, then just read his arguments — everywhere, he opposes Socratic-Judeo-Christian idealism, and with it, any notion of an absolute / God. Zarathustra says the body is all there is; there is no soul separate from the body.

Leftists then say, "but he referred to the Japanese as part of his blonde noble race, so it must be a metaphor," except some Ainu, people who mixed with the Japanese over a thousand years ago, had curly red hair, and they descended from indigenous tribes in Siberia, which no longer exist.

All of the races which held onto the concept of militaristic nobility into recent history (past ~200 years) appear to have been genealogically connected in some way to the Kurgans, a now-non-existent tribe originally from Russia which spread all over the place and brought with them patriarchal values and militaristic genius. Both the ancient Greeks and ancient Chinese had stories of a northern tribe with light or red hair and blue or gray eyes, who came and conquered. Coincidence? Doubtful.

Intelligence and personality are primarily genetic. All else is cope.

>>23111643
Schizophrenia.

>>23111648
You live in the matrix of society and thus can't cognitively grasp the Kurgan-Aryan conception of nature. Anyone who has spent sufficient solitary time outside of it understands me and agrees.

>>23110277
>Otherwise Nietzsche's just some pithy jizm that has no purpose
That's literally exactly what Nietzsche is.

>>23111705
Except your mother doesn‘t enjoy Nietzsche

>>23110168
>invents a Polish origin for himself and repudiates any link with his mother and his sister
They abused him. His entire thought is a reaction.

>>23111643
>except some Ainu
>some
There goes your argument.

>>23111643
>Digits aside, you're right. It wasn't a metaphor. It's really obvious that he was a biological determinist.
It’s especially uncanny that 23=11 on the 24 hour clock! But I totally agree with you and while Nietzsche advocated biological determinism, he wasn’t necessarily completely in favor of the old aristocracy. He respected the old aristocracy but saw the need for the development of a new aristocracy in the future. Some people don’t seem to like the fact that they themselves aren’t “noble by birth,” but fail to realize that if they set long-term goals across multiple generations, nobility can can emerge from their bloodline. I mean, isn’t that one of Nietzsche’s most primary messages? Set long-term goals and work now for the future!

>>23111752
>I mean, isn’t that one of Nietzsche’s most primary messages?
It isn't.

>>23111731
No.

>>23111643
He not only mentions the Japanese, but the Arabs as well. Germans weren't blond beasts? Why does he hate on them several times in all his books making distinctions to his admiration for the Italians, Provençal people, the Mediterranean way of life? Did the Germans fail the biological determinism? I don't think Nietzsche was alien to the sentiment that pervades those pro-Indo-European theories of conquest, but he did not restrict his Eurocentric views to Northern Europe, as it is with Nordicists. We know Nietzsche shits on anglos and germans repeatedly.

>>23111752
>Set long-term goals and work now for the future!
What in the 90's libtard hell

>>23111574
I literally am, laughing at you puppets whenever I see your nonsense online will never not be hilarious.

>>23111853
The blonde beasts he wrote about were a tribe that no longer exist but who spread their genes all over the place at one time. Modern peoples are a mix of ancient master and slave, so blonde hair is no longer as accurate a signal of this genetic constitution as it used to be.

>>23111860
Maybe Zarathustra said it, it would sound more based.

>>23110168
>“overman” (which would suppose, therefore, the existence of “undermen”)
Yeah. Neetch could have picked a different term if he didn't want to imply that.

>>23111927
Not only did he imply it, but he even used the terms untermenschen and nebenmenschen (near-men) in The Gay Science, in relation to "dwarves, fairies, centaurs, satyrs, demons and devils," in a passage here he explains that egoism and individuality REQUIRE such comparisons.

>>23111662
>Anyone who has spent sufficient solitary time outside of it understands me and agrees.
I feel blessed to understand you having taken no such hermitage myself for any search for learning but by being banished by the normies for knowing too much. When I realized some women, most women, never ever grow up no matter what: I stopped believing in education altogether. This was the stance Savitri Devi spoke. Such is the nature of beast. I believe the muddleheaded majority can only rotely trace the mindful minority. That is the best I hope for.
I dated a woman from Thailand for a few dates and she knew absolutely nothing about Buddha. I talked to her about Jesus to see if she could tell the difference. She could not. She called her friend who did see what I was doing "a stuck up bitch".

>>23111895
What tribe?

>>23112029
.. they walked through the solitudes on heavily hooded horses, escorting and guarding huge chariots covered with a large roof. In these vast machines were locked their wives, their children, their old men, their riches. Huge oxen dragged them heavily as they wobbled and screamed their wooden wheels on the sand or short grass of the steppe. These red houses were like those that the darkest antiquity had seen transported to Punjab, the opulent land of the five rivers, the families of the first Aryans.

>>23112029
The horse-riding warmongering Kurgans, of which >>23112035 is a good description.

>>23111662
>>23111953
I like you guys.

>>23110168
>reading another man's interpretation of another man's interpretation of reality
>wooow bro this literally who is so brilliant I think I'll base all my thoughts off his thoughts
Double cucked, or cucked squared?

>>23112085
>he inhales another man's exhale
Literally like kissing another man times several billions

>>23112085
Literally me every single time I read a man's book whose writing style, ideas and life story I like

>spencer “sunshine”

>>23110168
Just massive, heart-breaking cope

>>23112035
>>23112055
But isn’t this an hypothesis that simply shows the Proto-Indo-European to be derived actually from the Steppe instead of Anatolia? Yamnaya would not be representative then of a Kurgan culture?