/lit/ - Literature

>>23373801
>know Eastern religions deal with this
It's not really exclusive to Eastern religions. Trust in God's plan is pretty common in Christianity.

>>23373801
Have you read the Tao Te Ching? I would start there if you haven't.

>>23373801
>I recently realized that free will is a hoax
Whether or not you ultimately have free will is irrelevant, conventionally you appear to have it and should act like you do

>>23373801
Some people like Alan Watts (plenty of his videos on YouTube) and there's another white guy who went full buddha (name starts with an 'R').

But as I understand it, it's about living in the moment without depression (regretting the past) and anxiety (dreading the future).

>>23373823
I did a while ago but I don't remember much, iirc I've read it 4 times because that's what the file with the translation did.

You gotta let go to get a grip. Paradox? Take leap of faith. Ya got nothin betta. Else ya ain't would be searchin

>>23373954
I don't speak ebonics.

>>23373801
Take the Mckenna pill.

>>23373801
you may or may not undergo a full spiritual awakening at some point in your life. i remember coming to the same conclusion as you about free will. but having just 'realized' that fact, it still takes a tremendous amount of time to 'internalize' that fact. your biggest enemy is the ego. you will struggle with the ego again, and again. it's a daily battle. do things which frighten you, ego holds on to fear like a crack fiend holds on to pennies. the more you overcome fear the less resistances there are to letting your spirit fully take control, to "act without acting".

fully, fully "letting go" is incredible. it changes every aspect of life, you move with a confidence that's unparalleled, you gain wisdom that's unutterable, every instance of life becomes more full of color, more radiantly meaningful, it's truly incredible... but something not everybody in this world experiences, and it's something that you can't really put into words. if it happens to you, it happens to you.

keep going on your path, you are doing good, realize the only moment that truly exists is this one, meditate, if you haven't sufficiently destroyed your ego i would, somewhat hesitatingly yet excitedly, recommend doing psychedelic drugs (they worked for me, but will not work for everybody(really great for introspection, especially magic mushrooms)) go out into the streets & dance, pinpoint which fears you have & conquer time. good luck

>>23373801
Complete Works of Zhuangzi

>>23373801
meditate on the tao te ching

>>23375601
I don't think I have problem to "internalize" this knowledge. My life is full of pain and it is not by choice that I'm still alive, fate didn't even allow me to commit suicide.
But I didn't just realize free will is a hoax, I'm also going through a period of intense self improvement, included spiritually.
In my life I tried weed, alcohol and cigarettes but they were disgusting to me, so it's possible I won't like psychedelics either.
>>23375651
How exactly?

>>23375979
>realize free will is a hoax,
> I'm also going through a period of intense self improvement, included spiritually.
Huh

>>23375601
Or you know you could skip all the work and eat 5 grams psilocybin mushies

>>23376688
There is no contradiction there, though.

>>23375601
First of all, I'd like to articulate the principle that people's views on the nature of reality are really just an externalization of their own psyche. Therefore, if you claim knowledge of grand cosmic laws such as "free will doesn't exist", then that "law" that you observe says a lot more about you than it does about reality. The same goes for all the other "truths" that you believe, such as that the "ego is an illusion".

My problem with this whole "just let go" path to union with the divine, is that it is totally unbalanced. People who live like this are all failures at life who can't sit down and do work, instead they'd rather just "go with the flow" and spend their parent's money on drugs.

Simply put, your philosophy stifles your ability to act, which is why it is wrong. An excellent human being has their priorities straight, they can have goals and then accomplish them. You could be disciplined but without passion, you won't have ambitions. You could have passion, but without discipline your ambitions will just stay dreams. You need both, but all you have is passion, you need discipline and passion to be a full human being. I'm not saying this to be rude or anything, but out of genuine concern of the lies that you have within yourself and that you spread to others. I'd advise to go work out, dress nice, learn a skill, something that challenges you for the better.

>>23373801
>I recently realized that free will is a hoax (and there is actually lots of evidence for this, both scientific and philosophical
Oh please enlighten us.

>>23377440
Literally everything you said is wrong, you're deluded and ignorant. You don't understand the forces of the universe, both inside and outside the individual. If you meditated and practiced mindfulness you will probably be able to see your chains.

>>23377447
I'm not gonna spoonfeed you, newfag

>>23377465
You're the one asking for help you retarded loser.

>>23373801
However you do it, you definitely won't learn it from a book.

Flow is really just a focused state. And that focus is silent and now.

Watch any pro athlete; they are literally completely focused on what they're doing. As in already doing, not what they are going to do. They move with each moment.

So perhaps by learning mastery of a skill, you may learn to enter into a flow state as well as part of that.

>>23377501
How to learn flow?

>>23377549
Get good at something. They use to say it takes 20,000 hours to get good at something because it was in a gay book but they found out that wasn't true.

The truth is that the more you focus while you're learning and practicing a skill, the less time it requires to do so. But you acquire the focus by performing the skill. It's in tandem with each other. Focus doesn't come before the activity and the activity doesn't come before the focus. It should be both at the same time. Essentially presence.

Basically just pay attention to what you're doing as you're doing it as much as you can and improve as much as you can at the activity in the very moment. And if you can improve at increasing your level of silent clear attention at the same time then you can only get better.

Focus is the meta-skill.

>>23377501
So basically i have to be mindful and live in the moment?

>>23373801
Free will is a hoax and that means that you can't will to live with a flow. You are condemned to have a mind that will 95% of the time be in the struggle with a outside world.

>>23377918
This was the case until last year but now I'm going through intense self improvement, including spiritual development. Fate decreed that now is the time to seize my destiny.

hey

I think there’s something like levels of freewill, or freewill and the course of nature (deterministic, mechanistic in comparison) battling it out, or maybe even often inevitably cooperating and intertwining, in our bodies and psyches.

For instance, we don’t actively control our heart rate or pump blood through our body. “It” just does it for us. (Medical advancements aside, where we try to revive people when their heart stops, using technical advancements to go against the course of nature, but even in “going against nature” we still can’t actually break the laws of nature or what’s possible — we still have to take nature into account). But we can secondarily affect these processes, through auxiliaries like exercising or conversely not exercising much, things like a high-sodium diet and becoming overweight or obese (which can lead to higher blood pressure and a higher resting heart rate), or the converse and keeping our bodies healthier.

A higher level of free-will or conscious awareness might, paradoxically, be found in realizing that really “It” just does almost everything for us, and we’re like observers to It. (The “It” here is the impersonal nature referred to in common phrases like, “It’s raining,” or, “It’s hot out.” What is “It” in these phrases? What’s raining? Or what’s hot? Our little cross-section of the universe we have access to is what’s doing these things, I suppose). This doesn’t necessarily mean to be entirely passive, but to accept the processes of “It”, and realize that one oneself is something like a surfer on a wave. We don’t control the waves ourselves, or the ocean, but we can develop good balance and even make ourselves a board to ride on it.

>>23373801
>How do I go with the flow?

By being swift & steady.

Fluctuation implies antimony, with mediating individual in the center; fluidity implies harmony, with immediated universality in the circle.


>How do I act without acting?

That is an obvious conflation of terms.

One may repose into potentiality or passivity toward something, but, so long as one exists, one remains exposed in act to a certain degree.


>I recently realized that free will is a hoax

You are the one who has been hoaxed.


>I know Eastern religions deal with this but I don't even know where to start.

Nor do orientalist sects/cults.

>>23373801
>he's asking
you already failed

>>23378735
>I think there’s something like levels of freewill, or freewill and the course of nature (deterministic, mechanistic in comparison) battling it out, or maybe even often inevitably cooperating and intertwining, in our bodies and psyches.

Yeah I believe this to be pretty much the case. From a platonic perspective, all apparent opposites are reconciled into a hierarchical relationship. Where the end goal/desire of what is above restricts everything below it, such that all purposes below it are conducive towards the singular goal of what is above. Not in a way that totally restricts what is below, for some degree of freedom is necessary such that what is below is motivated towards action to achieve a harmonic goal that at once achieves what it naturally tends to and at the same time is conducive towards the goal of the higher.

For instance, under modern capitalistic organizations, there may be people who all desire different things working under a single organization whose rulers all desire one thing, namely money. This ruler would probably tell the people working for them, you are free to pursue whatever it is you desire, as long as it makes me money. They would tell the scientists who have curiosity and love of truth, "You are free to pursue truth and satisfy your curiosity as long as this knowledge is useful towards my goal of making money". They would say the same to the artists, "You are free to express yourself in your craft, as long as it makes me money". Therefore, everything under the organization is conducive towards the goal of making money, while at the same time being harmonious with the variety of people's goals that they all aspire towards.

With respect to free will and determinism. The same is the case, but instead of capitalistic desires at the top, I will posit that determinism is at the top, and free will is at the bottom. Determinism all tends towards a single goal, it ultimately unifies all apparently contradictory free will acts, into a singular deterministic outcome. Therefore the deterministic ruler would tell it's free will subjects, "You are allowed to pursue whatever it is you desire, as long as it is conducive towards the design of fate". This is the meaning of stories such as Oedipus where the king wrestles with fate, but ultimately loses. Even a great king with great human excellences is powerless to the constraints of fate. Though we may be able to pursue whatever we may desire, ultimately all desires are in some way restricted such as to be in harmony with the end goal of fate/determinism. Whatever that may be lol.

>>23379849
Reddit spacing

>>23381008
I would normally argue that spacing is common in grammar, but those are some really large and unnecessary spaces lol

>>23373801
>How do I act without acting?
The idea is that choosing not to act is an act in itself.
You should act when the circumstances favour you. If conditions are unfavourable it's better to wait.
Taoism recognises free will. It just denigrates fighting against the "will" of the cosmos (i.e. the Tao.)

>>23373801
Acceptance.

>>23382338
Can you elaborate more on this with some reference to the book?

>>23383369
>We are more attracted to the practice of spiritual cultivation than to what the practice is supposed to reveal. We are not willing to accept the ultimate defeat humbly, as Benoit puts it. As a result, we continue to exhibit gross spiritual pride toward our so-called attainments. This attitude can be directed toward practice of any kind. This psychological tendency is known as eating the menu. In Effortless Living I am not interested in discussing the contents of the menu with you, even though we may trace over them to better understand the meal. This book is concerned with taking you beyond the menu to finally taste the ineffable mystery of Lao-tzu’s sublime dinner.

>In order to taste the delicious meal Lao-tzu provided for humanity, we need to understand the core tenet of almost all Chinese philosophical systems. This foundational pillar of Chinese philosophy is found within the classics of Eastern thought, notably the Tao Te Ching, the Analects of Confucius, the Chuang-tzu, attributed to Chuang-tzu, and even the Indian text the Bhagavad Gita.

>The core pillar of these classics, in China especially, is believed to originate from Lao-tzu, and it is his essential teaching that is veiled within the mystery of the Chinese word wu-wei (無為: Wade-Giles wu-wei, Pinyin wu-wei) (see figure I.1), which is the core of Chinese philosophy and a predominant principle in Eastern thought. This word is shrouded in misinterpretation. The main confusion arises from the Confucian translation of wei-wu-wei, which literally means “doing nondoing.” This interpretation is built on Confucius’s philosophy of trying to install the eternal Tao and its virtue into our character as if it were some external agency. This is the completely opposite perspective to Lao-tzu’s teaching of naturalness. Translated into English, wu-wei means “nondoing,” “nonaction,” or “effortless action.” These translations are literally correct and lead us to the intuitive and ultimate psychological experience of wu-wei. This effortless psychological experience means “not forcing” or “allowing,” a state of “intelligent spontaneity.”

>>23373801

Willpower (paradoxically)

>>23373801
Sounds like you're all Yin and no Yang. Taoism isn't for you.

>>23383997

The vast majority of modern Westerners have too much Yang, that’s what attracts us to Eastern spirituality

>>23374824
Do I need to read the trilogy in order?

>>23384040
Don't waste your time with such garbage. Read the classics.

>>23384045
List your "classics", please.

>>23384047
>>23383705

>>23373801
Not literature.

>>23384061
He's literally asking for recommendations, you snotty fuckwit.