/lit/ - Literature

It's cold as fuck there, bro.

Do you hope to illustrate the amount of emotional and ideological disparity that these individuals are going through in a statist society that would lead them to take up such an unfeasible, hostile environment to survive in? As if surviving in Antarctica was a better life than living in an industrial nation? What kind of freedom does base survival offer? Why does Wal-Mart and Individual-Mandated Healthcare injure these people so much?

Also, it's cold as fuck there, bro.

How are you going to stop me from coming down there and taking your meager possessions for myself?

>>2829970
>What kind of freedom does base survival offer?
This.
Is there such thing as absolute freedom? Do these people think they are absolutely free? Would this large amount of freedom lead to increased crime?
Does the protagonist (assuming you have just one) believe or not believe in this ideology?

i noticed people started writing back to me and am happy to address your concerns in the next post


The population would be i imagine 50/50 refugee/hardline anarchists, and the anarchists will be split into communist, socialist and capitalists.

The Nations of the world have erupted into bitter entrenched territory disputes & have almost all started drafting citizens. They each began strict tariffs and industry protection initiatives.

Each people will have their own reason for leaving but the reason that Antarctica is important because a international incident had the result of many ships, planes and infantry units abandon their posts refusing orders they feel are immoral then when treated as mutineers they make their last stand Antarctica

>>2829970
>emotional and ideological disparity that these individuals are going through in a statist society that would lead them
yes i do plan to do so through individual short stories some i will prob post here but right now i will only summarize the whole thing

>>2830124
^i would encourage it

>>2830171
wow u hit the nail on the head

next post will be my detailed answers to your questions

>>2830171
Is there such thing as absolute freedom?
"I don't know but lets find out"
Do these people think they are absolutely free?
They have a variety of views but they all agree that they are more free in Antarctica then home
Would this large amount of freedom lead to increased crime? i would argue without a court system there is no crime but also the story would walk the NRA line of "you are less likely to rob someone if everyone has a gun"
Does the protagonist (assuming you have just one) believe or not believe in this ideology?
There are multiple and neither are actual believers the supporting cast has the believers.

The story is more about "you choose to be there but in life u have no other choice but survive"

also i wanna say the majority of people in Antarctica will be migrant workers and trades people who travel to and from Antarctica.

Also i feel i should mention this i plan to introduce water as the basis of the economy

>>2830231
You mean exporting water or using it as a currency? I don't think either would work.

>>2829970
Do you hope to illustrate the amount of emotional(yes)
ideological disparity( yes)
that these individuals are going through(yes)
in a statist society(well not every scenario is the state at issue) that would lead them to take up such an unfeasible, hostile environment to survive in?(well the 1st generation in the colony yes, but the second generation immigrants will be coming to a already built and self sustaining colony that dont need to enter the hostile environment unless they wish to) As if surviving in Antarctica was a better life than living in an industrial nation?(well there isn't much stopping antarica from industrializing but the lack of population) What kind of freedom does base survival offer?(what kind of freedom do you have without survival?) Why does Wal-Mart and Individual-Mandated Healthcare injure these people so much?(well walmart indirectly injures a few characters through forcing low produce prices and ruining the chances for local business start-ups to succeed. universal healthcare drives a motivated young doctor to abandon his moderately cushy life make it rich and make a difference all at once)

>>2830124
How are you going to stop me from coming down there and taking your meager possessions for myself? I plan on having Antarctica having a large pirate issue that threatens local traders and fisher men. but also as a pirate if you steal something in the world the best place to sell it will be Antarctica

>>2830233
i am happy to address this
the mass of water will be the lowest common denominator of value. so a sort of currency. You will need a large amount of liquid water to sustain your own life in the environment. water as ice can be used as cheap shielding against wind and weather for housing.
i imagine a gram of gold would be worth more then 10 kilos of water

>>2830264
i meant more then 100 kilos

>>2830264
So if it rains we all get rich?

You might want to look at when they tried to privatise water in Bolivia.

>>2830264
In a world full of ice you're going to use water as a currency? Too plentiful; doesn't have the qualities you would look for in a currency.

Anarchistfag here. OP, you might watch this:

http://www.documentaryjungle.com/2012/05/living-without-laws-slab-city-usa.html

To give you some ideas.

>>2830268
>>2830270
I am not trying to inflate the value of water and make it more then its worth. I am trying to say water is worth "how bad i wanna drink it" and everything else is worth "how much more badly i want it"

If it rains it will deflate the value of whatever water u have so u save most of it because "it don't rain in Antarctica ".

And you will always need to drink it and crops will always need it to grow it can never have a value of 0 unless its salt water which is what Antarctica is made of

Dude you can't write a decent post, you're not gonna be able to write a decent story.

>>2830253
Two things:
There's nothing in Antarctica. It's dirt and ice and permafrost. You can't grow anything there because it's too cold, and there's no trees so expect the inhabitants to live in igloos or an equivalent. Also, because everything is frozen and the inhabitants won't have access to heavy equipment, they can't build any real industry. No industry, no production, no money. It would be a barter economy, probably of food and fuel (fish and peat?). Literally living hand to mouth. Eskimo-like.

Second the pirate issue. If you don't have capital, which the Antarcticans don't, then you can't buy what the pirates are offering. And to think the pirates can't find their own food is unrealistic.

Basically, Antarctica is completely inhospitable. There can't be a true civilization there because there's nothing to built it upon.

>>2830280
Antartica is surrounded by saltwater, it isn't made of salt water.

>>2830287
What if it was a story about anthropomorphic penguins?

>>2830273
ya i saw that its what got me infected with the idea.
I mean all these people leave society because they are the unwanted dreggs or it pisses them off and then they become some sort of tourist destination.
that's about as ironic as che's face showing up on a bunch of gap t shirts.

>>2830289
Sold!

>>2830287
Wow 1st thank you for considering the possibility
and i will address your concerns 1 at a time.

"There's nothing in Antarctica." not true there is dirt and ice and permafrost, penguins polar bears and other animals might be transplanted and there is fish life.
"You can't grow anything." sure not outside but you can always make green houses. and Antarctica is so barren you can have massive fields of solar power and wind power turbines not much but enough to melt water and thaw soil. "there's no trees so expect the inhabitants to live in igloos or an equivalent" ya so ya i do but more like hobbit igloos and bamboo only needs light water and very little soil.
"inhabitants won't have access to heavy equipment". Well in the first colonization there will be heavy equipment and industrial complex will be established but i see your point.
"It would be a barter economy, probably of food and fuel (fish and peat?)" yes and no currency will be credits in a community bank of fresh water and barter will b the majority of transactions but there will be a healthy service industry because people will be very willing to tip with water credits since its not very hard to collect after sometime.
"Literally living hand to mouth. Eskimo-like." Eskimo like maybe at first but even the Eskimo's have access to modern amenities and i am sure seal meat is tasty.

Also i will cover this in my next post but when bartering with a pirate you might find cocaine is more easily accepted then gold

>>2830363
There's very little sun in Antarctica, either. And where are they going to get the money for all this advanced industrial equipment they plan to use in a massively sub-optimal way?

How do they prevent someone from stealing from the community bank of water? Who manages it? If the community effectively monopolizes a scare and vital resource and enforces that monopoly through force, how is "anarchy" in any real sense?

>>2830288
Much of Antarctica melts and then refreezes the following season and while much of Antarctica might be frozen fresh water it is under the surface which is frozen salt water

>>2830287
pirates cant afford food its often y they become pirates
and pirates are always willing to barter with goods that are marked and which they can not move on easily. They make most their money through ransom and would find that if their home port became hostile to them a friendly port where they have had a good business relationship would be a good place to go. Also the people of Antarctica wont be merrily trying to survive they will be trying to make capital of their own (well some characters will) and through trade unencumbered by taxes or laws some will find vast wealth fast. how u might ask well i will explain in greater detail in the stories but mostly through smuggling, trafficking, mercenary work, and regular trade. but the majority of Antarctica civilization will be living pretty meager lives with some hunting.

>>2830385
You didn't properly research browski,

>Much of Antarctica melts and then refreezes the following season and while much of Antarctica might be frozen fresh water it is under the surface which is frozen salt water

Why don't you just have more global warming and let the people live on the rocks underneath the ice?

>>2830373
I used the word "community" wrongly because i am at work and rushing when i type
the Banking water system will be explained in the next post give me a min to type it but in short its more like a private bank run by a militia you pay into the militia that you wish to join. If you wish to not join then you can protect your own water (or not)

"little sun in Antarctica" enough sun to grow bamboo and bamboo can burn
where are they going to get the money for all this advanced industrial equipment they plan to use in a massively sub-optimal way? they will steal the money and the equipment when they leave their nations also there will be some bartering of nuclear weapons for industrial equipment.

>>2830291
Yeah, but it's funny that it happened to Che. He was a total prick by the time he died. Sad that it happened to slab city.

>>2830395
"You didn't properly research browski," dude i came up with this Friday night how much research u think i am working with. besides Antarctica does refreeze BRA

"Why don't you just have more global warming and let the people live on the rocks underneath the ice?" nice idea brosif but that would take to long and i hope my anarchist civilization becomes orbital

>>2830411
irony abounds
its a force of nature people will do ironic things and not even notice it

but he did die in one of the most bad ass ways
Slab city is a joke i got a hobo village down the train track outside my town same rules apply there as slab city only here it gets cold in winter and it rains more

>>2830399
>by a militia
Sure is anarchism in here.

>>2830430
>Sure is anarchism in here.
i don't get it
but the bank system will be run normally by whoever runs the security of the port at which u might be at.
The militias are voluntary and depending on the amount of water you have deposited you need not actually join the armed forces. Most militias will have mandatory training for initial investors.
The deposit of water will be a investment and what u actually hold is a stock of the collected capital.
there will be other ports that work on a different economic system that does not use water but they one i am focused on currently does.

There are also perks to being in on bank rather another if a bank own a service bridge or complex as a member you are awards certain rights of ownership and use of those bank property. each bank/militia works differently and attracts a different part of the population.

>>2830453
Who restrains the militia? Who leads it?

honestly do u know how much water you would need to steal to make it worth your while the shear mass of the problem would stop almost any attempts
>>2830460
that is decided by the bank owners/shareholders but each militia would be different and none would have police powers(but in reality they would be vigilantes)

lets get this straight i say these things not because i believe this is the proper way for things to work but because if events did unfold the way i imagine i think that people would arrive at the answers i am coming up with

Having spent the past two years living and working in McMurdo Station, I can only shudder at how inaccurately you will describe the Antarctic environment in your story. Don't worry, though. I have yet to see or read any fiction which decently captures this place, even from people who have been here.

>>2829887
Alternate history, you're writing an alternate history.

Here's one: The enlightenment takes place instead of the Christianization of Rome, and so the struggle for the old republic and Athenian democracy overthrow the "divine right" imperialists and would-be papists. This could pave the way for their colonists in the new world to set up an anarchist society....

>>2829970
>It's cold as fuck there, bro.
Not for long with all this climate change seemingly accelerating.

>>2830484
Amundsen-Scott here, McMurdo is shit

>>2830484
>>2830495

Bullshit.

>>2830495
Well, duh, but I've been to some field camps on the continent proper (Byrd, WAIS, Dry Valleys), so it's not all townie experience. By the way, I've never heard anyone who's ever been to the Pole call the station by its full name. Weird.

>>2830502
I'm sure you've talked to scores of our people in your time. Hundreds. No, thousands.

>>2830492
i read a lot of alternate history but I'm thinking more of a alternate current events

Also to the fake/real antarctic scientists the only descriptions of Antarctica i have read have come from "The Last March" by Robert Falcon Scott i totally recommend it to everyone
i think one character will parallel the failed expedition as close as possible

>>2830484
>>2830495
>>2830502
>>2830505
this is funny because while i don't believe either of them(or i think they are the same person) i do believe that people in the science stations probably spend all their time on 4chan porn and facebook

have either of you visited the falkland islands?

>>2830524
Thank goodness the NSF restrictions on our internet don't include the quote-unquote "work safe" boards or Facebook or else I'd be shit out of luck down here. Especially when management dismantles McMurdo's library this upcoming summer.

And, no, I've never been to the Falklands. Why do you ask?

>>2830515
Current events are history. My example could lead all the way up to the present and we see what the world looks like. The whole world would be so different... But if you want to pave a more recent divergence, go right ahead, but just remember to come up with how its a self sustainable colony. Penguins don't eat well while on land

>>2830542
falkland is on my bucket list i figure i would check it out on my way to Antarctica. so what u studying? r u a male? and must u be a scientist or student to get work in Antarctica? (also i don't wanna work on a tourist boat or transport plane)
>>2830542
>>2830543
i was thinking most food came from fish nurseries as well as crabs and some greenery

how do you keep it as such a safe haven? If, for example, some crazy dictator or whatever the hell decides he wants to come in, what do you say to him? If my happiness comes from taking away yours, should I be allowed in?
Also, Antarctica would have a terrible military.

Ten out of ten. You're outta the ballpark

>>2830581
how do you keep it as such a safe haven? u don't keep shit its just the last place on earth governments aren't willing to shill money to take over. there are strongholds hostile to everyone so they will keep the governments from invadeing
If, for example, some crazy dictator or whatever the hell decides he wants to come in, what do you say to him? come in bro
If my happiness comes from taking away yours, should I be allowed in? whatever bro try to take mine and last one standing gets it all
Also, Antarctica would have a terrible military. this i dispute but because its in my story so will go into more detail tomorrow.
i will be checking and posting but might fall asleep soon. so will renew the discussion tomorrow if i fall asleep

>>2830594
i don't understand is that meant to say i am crazy or genius? and if u stopped reading y did u post?

>>2830599
YOU JUST CREATED ANARCHIST, COLD-AS-BALLS SWITZERLAND

>>2830601

I think that
>>2830594
was in response to the military part of
>>2830581

i am faget

>>2830611
thanks for explaining i was lost it makes sense now
>>2830605
yes no maybe so?