/lit/ - Literature

> Does the idea of a shared space for amateur writers to showcase and improve their work hold no water any more on /lit/?

No, because nobody wants to think of themselves as one of a scrum of obscure young writers, they want to think of themselves as the one element the establishment currently lacks.

I've never bothered reading or downloading your publication. It might be good but I have no desire to find out. It's probably bad. Like everything else.

You need to market yourselves more, get a website pimp your submissions, create buzz, etc. I never even hear of you guys outside of this board.

Well, I felt quite positive about TAR when it was broadening out beyond /lit/ to get more submissions and higher quality writing. But as far as I remember, a decision was reached at some point that TAR should limit itself to being a zine limited to /lit/. Yes, it may prevent TAR from being "just another zine" but it also ultimately reduces the quality of the writing and makes it less appealing for the more able writers of /lit/.

I may be a poet who uses 4chan, but that doesn't mean I want my work in a 4chan poetry magazine, if you get me. There is a certain stigma attached to 4chan in some circles. I'm fine with a magazine organised by 4channers, but I'm not hot on the idea of a 4chan community zine.

>>3361727
Indeed.

>>3361719
I read some of the stuff you post on occasion. Other than most of it being mediocre and producible than probably anyone who uses this board, it has a few alright bits.

It's alright. I think we should have a /lit/ publishers club with you lot, publish a shitton of stories on amazon and write reviews for each other, advertise for each other, basically game the system to get monies in addition to esoteric peer reviewing prose value, prole.

>>3361723
>>3361727
>>3361748
>>3361750
So, I guess the answer is that nobody really wants to be associated with 4chan. I can't help but wonder then why people even submitted to us in the first place. Can there be no compromise between the idea of community representation and a magazine that excludes almost everyone?

Regardlessly, I feel like >>3361750 is probably on the right track here for money and amazon publishing. This, along advertising more aggressively outside of 4chan are real things we can do. But surely there is something else?

>>3361777

I think if you published a physical magazine - paper, binding, something people can receive by mail - then that might be of more interest. Are you still in touch with the people who've contributed previously? If so, you should probably use them.

To be honest, though, a literary magazine from 4chan is like a wine from Coca-Cola.

>>3361777
I remember a tumblr briefly being made for TAR that was never really used. I could try running the tumblr for you if you like. Shall I email you about it and you can give me the login details maybe?

Move it beyond /lit/ alone maybe.

Ultimately the issue is that it is made up of writers from 4chan and we are automatically critical and distrusting of anything any produces here.

Also, while 4chan is a fascinating source of new language and syntax, people who happen to post here writing relatively traditional short stories (which I assume TAR's content mostly was from a very brief skim of the first issue) isn't so interesting. A traditional (ie. paper, priced) magazine full of 4chan-type language would be interesting. A webzine full of traditional stuff, not so much.

How many submissions do you get from /lit/? How many downloads of each issue? Maybe the audience is just too small and that is causing your unhappiness.

I don't think the problem is being associated with 4chan - look at all the memes that gather a large following.

>>3361804
hell, this would be great. I feel like all too quickly we've become an elitist organization by promoting the powers of editors over ordinary people. I think this is great! Anyone else who also feels inclined are also welcome to help

>>3361793
You're right really, but I guess personally I've never had the motivation move beyond selling "soft drinks". when it comes to TAR. But at least we can do small things and a whole lot of fun messing around and pretending to be the real deal, right?

As for paper copies, this is really important. I'm slowly working on the ability to manufacture these in a way that looks outside of a shitty printer job. Maybe it'll become a possibility in time

>>3361806
Does 4chan always have to be shit?

>>3361826
We've shrunk over the past few months to basically how we were during the early days on /lit/ - handful of submissions, couple hundred downloads. I mean it's nice, but I feel like the direction is that we could easily disappear if we don't do something to change how we operate. Besides, what the hell is the point in making a magazine if the people we're doing it for don't even want us? I really don't have monetary ambitions here

I simply don't want to read what these edgy faggots have to write. Get some real writers.

>>3361833

I think the problem is with a "magazine of short stories". It's just not interesting and the quality will be low, with a handful of submissions. I'm the target audience and I just don't care. Maybe even with 30 submissions only a few will be good and worthy of my time. I don't want to spend my time reading shit. I spend enough time on 4chan.

The concept of TAR at it's root is kind of doomed, a niche interest, only marketing to a tiny audience of people.

I think a cooler concept would be a 4chan site wide 'zine that could collect the best of the creative boards output and present them in a pretty way. This would not only be more entertaining from a readers perspective, it would create interest in the other boards, more submissions, readers, etc. With a higher number of submissions, quality would increase.

And a story could mixed up with a comic, with a photo, with a poem, with whatever.

It would be a Zine I suppose instead of a Reader.

I'd be happy to help build something like that.

>>3361833

> You're right really, but I guess personally I've never had the motivation move beyond selling "soft drinks". when it comes to TAR. But at least we can do small things and a whole lot of fun messing around and pretending to be the real deal, right?

Providing I understood that garbled sentence correctly - no, it's not fun to pretend. It's humiliating and depressing. If you're old enough to try for publication in literary magazines, getting knocked back is not fun, and doing a pretend internet version is a puerile waste of time. Plus, why the fuck would I waste good shit on a net-based free download magazine? I don't want to be read by my 4chan peers, you people are not my peers, you're where I come to get away from my peers.

>>3361833
Okay, I've emailed you about Tumblr.

I'll definitely be submitting something for the next issue. If there's anything else I can do to help let me know!

>>3361890
Well. I don't have the motivation to go beyond /lit/, but I'd be happy to act as a subsection of something larger if you wanted to coordinate it. This is probably the only stable way of staying on 4chan, after all.

Try pitching the idea of some of the boards and and maybe you'll get something out of it.

>>3361891
Heh. I'm sorry, I have a terrible tendency to revise what I am saying dozens of times before posting. You can actually recognize me very easily since I'm the only poster on here who tends to do this

Perhaps I am imagining a shared interest where there is none, but I honestly feel that I've seen what would count as a cooperative behavior in many of our early release threads. But I guess once you get down to the hard facts for writers who have already polished their content the prospect of improving their skills by exposure isn't exactly a strong motivation.

>>3361924
Thanks!

>>3361942
Honestly, just having someone who is happy to talk and respond to us is really the best we could ask for. There is a lot of work that could be done, but even if we did all it wouldn't matter if the board wasn't interested. If you have any ideas for things you could or want to do, just pitch it to us and we'll see how it goes.

I'm going to get a bite to eat. Will return sometime in half an hour or so

/lit/ is comprised of self-hating misanthropes, so anything that they associate with themselves they're bound to hate.

>>3361777
>I can't help but wonder then why people even submitted to us in the first place. Can there be no compromise between the idea of community representation and a magazine that excludes almost everyone?
As someone who's submitted to TAR, I use it as a personal incentive to write in my free time. I would like to say it provides critical feedback on my work, but hardly any discussion like that goes on in the release thread or anything.

Perhaps an IRC could be established for people who submitted and editors to hang out, since they seem to be the ones who find TAR worth their time.

Another idea is to make release threads some sort of "writer panel," in which the prize-winner and whomever was published are obligated to take on trips and discuss their works with /lit/ directly. Knowing that the author of the piece is present should encourage a lot more people to join. Whether that means more trolls or not, at least its not a sad and one-sided like the past few threads have been. Seriously, it's pitiful reading prole leave each thread raped and battered.

>>3361950

I'm sure lots of people who are starting out want to do it. Good luck!

TAR was heading in the right direction, expanding readers, more people interested in submitting - it was heading somewhere respectable. Then someone there (was it you, prole?) decided that, no let's get back to our roots (incidentally, the roots are typically the most bitter and gastronomically useless parts of most plants) and scale back our operation. Writers are egotists who crave attention and respect. By limiting TAR to /lit/'s teeny audience, there is NO way they'd get either. I think the swede might have been the voice of reason there, and why he left when the ship started to sink.

>>3362009
>(incidentally, the roots are typically the most bitter and gastronomically useless parts of most plants)
Lol'd so hard at this

I think I read one entire issue, and some of it was quite good, but some of it was quite bad, too.
I don't really have a reason that I didn't read more issues after that one; I guess I just wasn't all that interested.

>>3361719
I love TAR though

it's just faggots on here like to stick to classic canon

>>3361982
Yeah, I think the motivating ability of TAR is probably our strength. I've seen many beginning authors flourish into something far better given and encouragement. On the other hand, it is true that if things get out of control people can easily be discouraged and can easily go in the opposite direction. The trouble is that with 4chan, you really can't control the mood: at best you can just redirect it. For whatever reason or other, /lit/ simply isn't as enthusiastic as before.

About an IRC, I'm rather hesitant although it is a decent idea. My experience has been the moment we get an IRC up and running, people start throwing around "wankery" left and right because an established group forms that newcomers often feel excluded from. Essentially unavoidable since you're trying to maintain good relationships with people and topics inevitable vary if given enough time. Although your suggestion that we try and make authors more prominent is in the right direction.

Perhaps we could just use the IRC during release periods as a way of stabilizing threads. If we were able to know in advance several of us would be discussing the release and could coordinate and identify ourselves, most of the blatant shitposting we've received could be calmed. You're on to something with this

>>3362118

Why do you want new people?

>>3362009
Who is more bitter here: The character who attacks our threads deliberately out of malice, or the opposite number who grows to dislike said shitposting? I think if you wanted to assign numbers, we'd probably be about equal at this point, Herr Lohrer.

At the time, going back to our roots seemed like a good idea. We had strength there, that was for me the entire point of the organization, and I could see that over time interest in TAR was slowing because we weren't caring about /lit/ enough. The fact that we were continually riven by arguments obviously contributed, making the compromise that could (and retrospectively, should) have happened impossible. I'm not going to say that I'm perfect, but I do not believe I am completely at fault either. Had Matthew not quit, I would never have rejoined TAR at all, and the origin of the friction which became a split would not exist. Draw your conclusions there.

>>3362134
For TAR? It doesn't make sense to say we want to represent /lit/ if we're just going to funnel initiative and decision making away from our readers. As long as an organization exists this is bound to happen to some degree. But if we don't try to combat it we'll become something else entirely. On a personal level, I don't always have the time to support TAR in the way /lit/ deserves and it is clear that things are only going to work if everyone pitches in. Every time I try to take less work, something new draws me back in

What the fuck is TAR and where can I find it?

>>3362205
We're a non-profit writing magazine from /lit/, and we've been around in one form or another since the dawn of this board. We basically just cater to writers from /lit/ and give them a place to post their work that is slightly more appealing than normal 4chan threads

>Our site is https://theaprilreader.wordpress.com/

>>3362199
I think you misunderstood my 'root' analogy. I didn't imply that you or TAR were bitter, I was saying that roots aren't always worth going back to. And I did not mean to attack you or your thread. No malice was involved. TAR could've been something worthwhile, and it's sudden turn to something less was pretty dismaying. Good luck anyway

>>3362118

I think you should restructure the endeavor thusly:

Post recruitment/submissions thread (Hey guise write x/y/z style work.
Review/Critiques of works (make the drafts available outside of the thread)
Finalization, Editing (This is important, some of the releases - especially older ones, didn't even seem to pass spell-check)
Vetting - only publish edited works which have been agreed upon or voted on in some manner, this way your publication maintains quality. All the other works should still be available, but the substance of the issue should display your best, even if its shorter because of that.

Publish them on amazon, copy/paste some review into the review section, advertising for authors etc etc to provide a clear incentive.

A lot of people write for you just to write. A lot of the writers here have hopes of being professional, so the idea of releasing works you spend time on to other amateur writers who want to be professional is rather off-putting. I think if you can write something good enough to be vetted by a decent number of people for a 10-piece issue, it would be a nice added incentive to have that ensure publication and some publicity.

Like if someone writes a series of stories that becomes favoured and that's decided to be published over a number of issues, you could compile that and post it to amazon, give it some reviews, etc. Even collections of eclectic short stories or poems could be condensed into a single work for self-publication.

There's already a group of people who are interested in the writing for amazon thing, coordinating them into a community which will both facilitation and spread their work would be great.

>>3362241
Ah, I guess you've got me then. It is pretty disappointing how things worked out. The early days of my collaboration during the period before the drama actually showed how far we could have gone if there had been no friction. I can't change the past, but do hope that something ultimately worthwhile can be made out of TAR still that benefits everyone. If this means me quitting to get around negative associations at this point, I'd do it.

>>3362242
Y'know, that is absolutely the best advice I've heard this whole thread. I think you're entirely right about how the process should be organized and this seems like a great blueprint for making things worthwhile again AND possibly allowing for a mass organization consisting of many people.

When you talk about review/critiques, do you mean posting the work on 4chan before publication or what? How many people do you think should be involved in the vetting process?

>>3362242
I think the idea of publishing on Amazon and editing -- even if it's simply peer editing -- is useful. We all know that most of the writers on /lit/ are still in the stages of figuring things out. More guidance and process would help make TAR seem like more of a project and less of a vanity project.

/lit/ is a seriously awful place. The writers who feel the need to showcase their work to other browsers on /lit/ are just embarrassing. TAR is a joke and so is the board.

>>3362349
I don't understand why you would browse the board if you hate it. But still, why is TAR a joke and how can we improve it?

>>3362361

I don't really come here anymore. It's just gotten worse and worse. TAR is a joke because your editors lack taste and the writers who submit their work are talentless. You can't improve because you're blinded to the fact that this is so.

>>3362372
you're right about /lit/ actually. I've noticed this over time as well

But still, back to the actual question: how do we quantify good taste? Is there some sort of methodology or rules we can follow? It seems to me that the the more you think about this question the harder it is to actually come to a conclusion about anything

>>3362390
I have good taste.

>>3362396
What proves you have good taste?

>>3362400
I have conviction

>>3362404
...which makes arguing with you about how to extrapolate rules for taste next to impossible. Okay then, I'll humor you. if you have good taste: What about TAR is not in good taste?

>>3362242
>Post recruitment/submissions thread (Hey guise write x/y/z style work
I think having a 'prompt/assignment' section would be a good addition to the zine, like a mini-contest. Maybe during release threads /lit/ can decide on next month's prompt.

>>3362414
You and your editors lack conviction.

>>3362417
>You and your editors lack conviction.
>[credibility needed]
Says the one who's organizing a thankless magazine?

>>3362425
I don't even know what you are talking about.

>>3362416
we've thought about doing this in the past, and often feel we'd simply stretch our limits because so few writers would participate. Still, it might be possible to work into a kind of one-shot thing well in advance or something.

>>3362417
You're saying TAR has bad taste because it has no conviction: but that you have good taste and TAR has bad taste. But if we had conviction we'd never ask you if we have good taste and we'd forever have bad taste.

What a great idea!!!!

>>3362433
No, if you had conviction you would certainly begin to develop good taste. This is not a very complicated concept.

>>3362438
we'd never be able to prove it was good

>>3362449
You wouldn't need to.

>>3362450
it doesn't work when you're trying to represent multiple interests

>>3362457
You seem to be missing the point and I'm not certain you will be able to with any amount of effort.

>>3362280

What I mean is with our like pastebin threads or what have you we can get people's stories available in the thread, possibly organized by TAR into a centrilized format rather than loose pastebin links, this will allow for peer-review and posting critiques or advice for particular works, as well as author dialogue in the thread or elsewhere.

The point of the thread initially, say at the start of the month or time period until publications, would be to post the desired topic/styles/genres which would be the "theme" of that publication, of course freewriting submissions are welcome but that just helps to coordinate your publication in a more harmonious fashion. There writers could start their work, interact, and do early stage review. From there, either through TAR, irc, or /lit/, they could interact further and maintain contact with TAR in some manner until publication, which is why having the drafts saved on tar would be nice, and some sort of chat/forum relay for contact.

Once the drafts have been finalized they should be edited and reviewed by the community at large which deign an interest in said works, after which the "choice" stories would be submitted to whatever group orchestrates the publication, which would then edit it for publication and release it.

The final stories which make publication could be posted on amazon and given some advertisement, given the decentralized nature of the community, the desire to make final publication would encourage both writing and critique of a higher standard. They ones that don't make final publication shouldn't be discarded, rather they can be kept around by whatever interested members desire to expound on them.

I think TAR primarily should be an aggregating institution for writers together to make their work available on amazon and beyond.

I've a story to submit.

7:40pm
Joshua N
Crit?
SHORT STORY.docxopen · download

7:42pm
Raj O
huh?

7:42pm
Joshua N
Give it a read

7:48pm
Raj O
nice
lol
i liked the twist at the end
wait
o
i didnt get it

7:49pm
Joshua N
lol
haha
I'm still fucking around with it
It's not done

7:49pm
Raj O
can u add a penis

7:49pm
Joshua N
Im deciding if I should make it longer
hahaa
Final Draft Freudian slip

7:52pm
Raj O
As he walks away I recognize his face and remember that I went to high school with him. His name was Jason or Jack or something that started with a “J” and I remember him saying he wanted to be a screen writer in one of my classes. Suddenly I feel a great warmth coming from beneath the table. I push the chair back and see my veiny cock is fully erect peeking through the open fly of my 100% camel hair trousers.

7:53pm
Joshua N
hahahhaha

7:53pm
Raj O
"Oh gosh" I laugh nervously, looking around the table. Anderson doesn't seem to have to notice but Kerry is looking flustered. I see him sneak a glance under the table.
I hesitantly reach my hand across from beneath the table. Anderson is lost in a story on the Zimbabwe porn industry. I grasp Kerry's knee and make my way up his thigh. He nods his head upwards, letting out a gasp.
"J-Joshua... !" he gasps under his breath.
I don't break eye contact as I continue up higher.
"Stop!" he hisses, looking around. But I make it up to his crotch and clutch his thick, juicy cock that's fully erect because Kerry wants it twice as much as I.
Suddenly, he shouts "Josh! Watch out!"
I break from my trance and look up into the camera. A sound of a car crash plays as my head explodes, staining the white dinner table, Anderson and the screen. Woops!

7:54pm
Joshua N
ah
thanks

>>3362482
Report submitted! This window will close in 5 seconds...

>>3362490
>Submitting false reports or otherwise abusing the report system will result in a ban of indeterminate length. Replying to a thread stating that you've reported it or another post is also disallowed—please do not announce your reports.

>>3362478
Okay, this is making more sense and sounding equally more appealing. My only feeling here is that if we let everyone read submissions before we publish them, there won't be much interest in actually reading the final draft. No?

But outside of this, what are some practical steps for moving towards this and testing the waters? I guess the start-of-the-month thread you were talking about would be a decent way to do this

>>3362482
our email address is theaprilreader@gmail.com. Email it to us there

>>3362490
It's a genuine submission. Also, yeah, I've told TAR this before, you won't get anywhere trying to accept everyone. The most important aspect is curation, of course you won't find any objectively right measure for a standard but the zine sets its own that everything inside agrees on and works towards.
What you've now is an aimless mess, it's doesn't appeal to any audience and that's a big reason why it's not appealing to any writers. Yeah, yeah, it's all subjective, except your mag sucks ass.
This is a problem with almost every 4chan community project, people are too scared to take the lead and head it in their own vision because it's too similar to the attentionwhoring tripfag, but the project itself is already indirect circlejerking, enforcing community love is only pushing that. It shouldn't even have been attempted, this is a project for reddit, not an imageboard.

>>3362510
>our email address is theaprilreader@gmail.com. Email it to us there

Fuck off, it's right there.

>>3362510

Indeed. Due to anonymity and the temporal nature of posts, fourchan isn't a proper community for long-term collaboration. Hence having and irc/forum for that. With endeavors like these, I'd expect every announcement, you'd have a group of people with the project already, TAR itself, and a few other people joining to read or write for that issue. The announcement thread will be the incubation chamber for these three groups to start working on their ideas. This could be either through irc and pastebin, or TAR, or /lit/, however something beyond /lit/ is probably necessary unless you have a 24/7 thread. The idea is to kindle the spark of creation on /lit/, do the majority of the work elsewhere, then release it on /lit/ and amazon at release. The majority of the people reviewing throughout the creation process are mainly writers or editors and not the reading audience anyhow. The final publication would be geared towards those people - the readers - taking the best from the creation cycle and refining it and editing it and making sure this this doesnt happened on final release.

Can TAR support the drafts themselves with either a chatroom or forum for commentary and dialogue? If not irc/pastebin with some coordination would work instead.

>>3362551
I've been meaning to buy a real website host for a long while now, so assuming we grab somebody capable of formatting it properly this could work well. I think we might be hard pressed at the moment to find enough writers interested in collaboration however: most of the early amateur writers we had who would be interested in this kind of thing have since disappeared from /lit/ seemingly. We can always build that up however.

Considering you have such well-developed ideas , would you be interested in joining us and helping make this happen? I hate to admit it, but >>3362518 is basically right to say we're often very directionless and could use with some guidance

could we still submit to TAR now even with all this internal turmoil and restructuring? i'm desperate for at least a shot at publication ;__;

>>3362679
Please do. Despite all the talk of changes the real work is still mostly meat-and-potatoes. Discussion just makes the work more fun to do

theaprilreader@gmail.com in case you don't already know. And thanks for the support!

>>3362580

I can't help you with a website or anything, but I'd be down to help organize and write a bit.

Getting writers shouldn't be difficult if you can aggregate the flashfiction/poems/short stories threads. /lit/ writes a decent amount.

An irc room and pastebin can suffice for now.

>>3362699
organizing is good enough. Often it feels like I don't have enough time to do even the rudimentary work involved in management, so having someone new with a sense of purpose and ability to execute it would help tremendously here.

Email us if you're interested and we can try and set things up.

>>3362699
considering I've not heard from you, I can only assume you've decided against the offer. Fair enough, I still think you're suggesting a pretty good idea and we'll try and do our best to mold something like it

>disguised bump

>>3362982

prole what's the maximum amount of work you can submit per submission entry? I sent 5 poems for consideration, hoping i didn't fuck something up

>>3363006
oh shit now you've caught me. Checking the email while putting off the actual work involved for tomorrow. Gulp

You have not fucked anything up, we just don't consider publishing more than 3 submissions per issue. But I wouldn't worry much since we can split things up over multiple releases if need be

So what would a website for amateur writers/ connoisseurs have?

- A front page of selected writings, with links to more
- A pastebin-like feature to post writings to show others who could then comment upon it
- ??

>>3363181

-Either a forum or contact info for writers with lists of their submissions
-Amazon info page for advertisement wankery

That's pretty much all you need, is contact and content.

>>3362982
My bad I went to Jupiter for a bit there, do you guys have an irc?

For most people, 4chan is that homely girl you fuck when drunk, but try to separate from the rest of your life as well as you can. Getting invested in her beyond the occasional booty call increases risks and complications and nobody really feels like it anyway. This rubs of on TAR, since it's 4chan's friend.