/lit/ - Literature

>Is there anywhere on here to share/critique each other's poetry?

Yes, this thread.

and now, in the spring of time
my windows tremble with the wind,
i see children run and leafs flying
but my bluebird doesn't sing

no amount of old whiskey,
or pretty women at the bar
make my heart run oh so fast,
those times are long gone by.

>>3870042

OP here. Thank you.

Not bad. Develop that into something fuller. At least that is what I would do.

I am no professional. I kind of started this thread to discover if I should keep trying to write or if I should just give up and stop wasting my time. Like, "get a fucking job!" Lol.

>THESE ATOMS ARE LIARS

>>3870067

Yes, brilliant song.

>>3870042
This stinks a bit of falseness. In other words, a weariness you have not earned. There is a context surrounding this piece that you have no control over. That context is of the desire of the writer to be experienced with the world, and the desire to project experience. That's the false note you're hitting.

>>3870092

OP here. So that's not my poem.

But what credentials do you have to critique poetry? I'm not saying they aren't there, I'm just curious. Maybe you critique lots of poetry. Maybe you are just very intelligent and experienced with the craft.

I'm just curious. Maybe I will share some of my work with you.

>>3870098
His credentials are you posted in a thread for critiquing poetry and he read it.
He's right, your poem reads like an outsider's caricature of whatever you might call its atmosphere.

>>3870106

As I said, that isn't my poetry. I have not shared any of my poetry in this thread.

>>3870106

For one, it isn't a part of my writing style to start each break in lower case. I'm a bit OCD with my writing. I have to start each break with a capital letter.

Also, I've gotten confused and fed up with using punctuation in my poetry. So I don't do that much either anymore.

>>3870098
Share if you wish. I have no certificates to show you. Just my opinion, which you can take or leave.

>>3870117

Do you read a lot of poetry? Do you write it yourself? Again, just curious.

I don't want something I've written getting archived on here. I'm not sure if I should link to it in a jpg file (so I can delete the jpg at the link later) or send it to someone's personal e-mail address.

I know. I'm difficult. I'm paranoid about putting my work out in public when none of it is published. I know that it is officially copyrighted to me anyways, but that wouldn't hold up in court if someone stole it.

>>3870125
Yes, I read and write a lot of poetry. Your work won't be stolen. That is a juvenile fear.

I'm still pretty new to writing poetry, and while a few people have complimented me on some of my work, I feel as though it wasn't all that sincere. So, any thoughts on this?

http://pastebin.com/bRRXHQT0

>>3870133

I probably am fairly juvenile. Okay, here's a jpg of one of my poems, written this year. I've been writing poetry since 2001, but only have about 20-25 poems I would say I'm "proud of." It is hard for me to write a meaningful poem more than 2-5 times a year.

>>3870138
Meaningful creation is a dialog between the spontaneity of creation, the structure of analysis, and the guidance of taste. In your piece it is all spontaneity; no structure derived from clear analysis, and frequent lapses in taste. In other words, you have no control over your own creation. You simply squirt it out and hope it means something. That's not how it works. The spontaneity of the artists you admire has been carefully nurtured under the intense light of analysis and taste. That is why it is so good, while yours falls short.

>>3870138
>http://pastebin.com/bRRXHQT0

OP here. Definitely more advanced than what I've been able to write. I like it very much.

Strange, the form you put it in though. It reads like poetry. But the first half of it is put together like prose.

The poem seems to trail off at the end, but perhaps that was intentional. The first 3/4s are so strong, the ending seems to pale a bit in comparison. I would try ending it with a bang. But perhaps there is meaning in ending it with a bit of an archaic whimper..

Just my 2 cents. I think it is very good. Better than my own work, which people compliment all the time.

>>3870160

I think there is talent there and he was really on to something nonetheless, able to paint pictures and bend through words.

I think I'm a total amateur though, so take my words with a grain of salt. Haha.

>>3870160
>>3870170
Thank you for the critique. It was very spontaneous and written over the past few months but there is a definite intent regarding the structure. The poem deals with the gradual death of humanity (that sounds way more edgy than I intended) and the structure is supposed to represent that idea. The dense prose style at the beginning is supposed to be clustered and suffocating, dense like the population of the Earth, but as the piece progresses I wanted it to become sparse and lacking human emotion.

Either way, I agree it falls short of being anyway near what I intended it to be.

>>3870156
This is actually pretty good. There are some interesting ideas, some nice use of words, and so on. The problem, I believe, is that you're simply not generating a large enough *quantity* of good ideas. Especially in the second half of the poem, it is obvious that you run out of good ideas. In fact I'd say the only two good lines in the second column are

>But you will cease to think to be
>Examine the contents of your leaden hand

The other problem, that makes it a little obvious that you're newly molted, is when you use "poem language". The most blatant example:

>Aught for I to nullexist?

It's fine and wonderful to play with sentence structure and wording. But this sort of wording is used by poets when they don't know what they're doing and end up parodying some vague idea of Enlightenment poetry. Avoid it. The concept of "nullexist" is being wasted in this way.

There are also a few failures of taste, where a false sort of angst comes out. It's not wrong to write about angst, but make sure it's sincere. I think you can point out the spots where it is not.

>>3870179

Kind or reminds me of the lyrics for F A ∞ by Godspeed You! Black Emperor.

Keep working on it if you're not satisfied with it or leave it as it is. I think there are many people out there that would really like it.

There is likely much merit in the opinion of Imhotep too, though I wouldn't be as harsh. I am am likely not nearly as knowledgeable as he is.

But I think I see where you're coming from.

>>3870175
Yes there is talent there. It just needs a great deal of seasoning.

>>3870179
Your ideas of intent are nonsense. I am talking about something much more fundamental. You did not have control over your work and you will not convince me that you did.

>>3870181

Thank you. I really appreciate that. Would you like to read another one of my recent poems that is longer and more fully formed? Or if I did, would you be willing to read and comment on that one too?

I like the one I shared, but I intentionally shared one that I don't think is one of my best. Haha.

>>3870187
Share what you please. I'll comment on it.

>>3870187

Well, I shouldn't waste yours or anyone else's time. So here is another one. See picture.

Also, if you believe I have any degree of talent in poetry, what do you suggest I do to become better at it? Or should I at all?

>>3870199

That one was also written this year. I've been trying to challenge myself to write more. If I only write when I really, really, REALLY feel it, then I almost never write. Like ever.I can count just a few of my poems that I wrote in years past when it was really the only thing I could do, to put pen to paper or fingers to keys and just write it.

But, those poems don't come to me very often. So, these new ones are kind of "forced," I supposed. But that's the only way I know how to do it if I don't want to die with only 10 poems to my name, haha.

>>3870193

Thank you very much. You seem to hold people do high standards, so I am happy that you even thought my first poem that I posted was "pretty good."

The only real critique I get on my poetry is from a female friend. We share our poetry with each other when we write any. She adores me (at least one person in the world does, lol), so her thoughts on my poetry are likely very biased. Haha. She is no professional. She is just as lost as I am, unfortunately.

>>3870209

She is at least very smart though. Straight As way back in school and always such high scores on IQ tests.

Me. I never studied and got Cs. And my professional IQ tests usually never scored me that high. Just somewhere not too far above 100.

>>3870213
Fascinating, tell us more.

>>3870199
I found this poem quite terrible. Much lower quality than the other one. The vast majority was inane and whiney. It sounds like the frustrated ramblings of a 14 year old. And being 14 years old, it's simply not possible to create anything worthwhile with any consistency. So don't feel bad. I will point out the good lines in the poem, of which there were a few:

>At nebula's of common worship
>Caress me. I'm a man without virginity

If you want to be better, you need to develop your taste. This requires reading extensively and reflecting on the quality of what you have read. Taste is an ability to distinguish high quality from low quality. As you develop taste, you must apply it relentlessly to your own work.

In criticizing your work, I'm simply applying the taste I have developed. Most of this poem was not high quality. But the lines I pointed out are of fairly high quality.

>>3870231

No problem. Sometimes I feel like a frustrated 14 year old, even though I'm 28.

But I think there are 14 year old prodigies out there who are quite amazing at certain things. Probably poetry too.

I have read very little poetry. And am bad not so good at reflecting upon quality. Though I suppose my music tastes, in comparison, are quite "refined." I've listened to tons of music in my life. But I don't read all that much. I am planning on changing that. I have some poetry books laying around.

>>3870231

Do you think that I have the talent or ability to become an above average poet, worthy of an audience?

Not OP but I'll throw a poem into the ring:

LOVECRAFT
Our dogs both dead
and living sat there
not knowing each other
the same dirt circle
on our hill's crest
the sun's full bloom
barking at the wind

Now there am I
while both dogs sleep
in shut eye black
and wails of animals
twist like dying stars
their echoes I was
never meant to know

>>3870237
That's not for me to say what you can do. Talent is unfortunately only revealed after a great deal of hard work. I can say that if you want to write poetry that I would enjoy reading, you have a long ways to go. But there are other reasons to write poetry than to please an audience, don't forget that.

If you have any serious desire to be a decent poet, start by reading an enormous amount of poetry. There is simply no other way to develop taste.

Still OP. Here is a poem that I am currently working on. I supposed it is finished in some sense, but I was going to follow along the same theme in "sequel" poems of sorts.

I drew inspiration from a visual novel I was playing/reading, so if some of the ideas are good, it may have been because I was adapting them from someone else's work.

But the words are mine, for the most part. Some of the phrases and themes I took from the game and integrated them in, but I tried doing it in my own way, my own expression. I didn't just want to copy the game's text into poetry form.

A lot of it is my own words and thoughts. As I said, I'm still an amateur, even though I've been writing poetry now and then, off and on, for years and years.

I wanted the opinion of someone with more refined taste, as you said. I don't mean to sound conceited, as I myself do not fall too far from mediocrity, but growing up around mediocre people, they've praised my work even when I myself know that it is not very good.

Its funny. My friend that I mentioned share some of her poetry with her therapist. Her therapist said, "This is amazing! You should, like, send it to a big band like Aerosmith and ask if they want to use it!"

That just makes me roll my eyes. I've had people say similar things to me. Like, are you fucking serious? Haha.

But on the other hand, it is a shame that it is hard to find teachers out there who really believe in you; people who are well studied in a given field and both willing and able to mentor someone that shows some modicum of talent, even if it is very very raw.

I don't know if I have that talent or not. I wish that I do. I just keep thinking of that quote from Good Will Hunting: "Most people never get to see how brilliant they can be. They don't find teachers that believe in them. They get convinced they're stupid."

>>3870247

whoops, forgot to link it.

I will in a second.

>>3870248
>>3870247

Okay, here it is.

>>3870245

Who, to you, are decent poets? Just curious who your favorites would be. I would at least like to check out some of their work.

>>3870241

OP here. Is it meant to be in the style of Lovecraft? Or just inspired by? Or are you just using the word as part of the poem? Or hell, for all I know, it could be Lovecraft. haha.

>>3870245

You still around, Imhotep?

Dang, everyone gone?

okay, the images are somewhat lacking, and the desrcripitve bits are describing subjective impressions of someone we haven't benn made to identify with. This is okay in a long prose work, in poetry, "show don't tell" shall be the whole of the law.

and "glue your heart to a wall as genocide kneels"? are you trying to make me giggle?

>>3870042
>leafs
should be LEAVES
other than that it's alright, it's abstract but too comfortable, and it's associations are somewhat familiar, but it's not cliche, and it has a breath of honesty about it.

I might try to come up with some OC if I can stay awake for another 10

>>3870284

I don't really know how to do that. I don't know if I really completely know what it means.

And yeah, that probably is a bad line. Haha.

Do you have anything more to say?

>>3870138
>http://pastebin.com/bRRXHQT0
I didn't finish it (because I'm too drunk) but it seems expressive, although.... rambling?
youre very specific. I'm sure it would convey deep things to those who know you whom you would never let read it, but it's too intimate, a private message.

for consumption you need to take those emotions and distill them.

I was hoping this thread was picking up again.

Oh well, thank you to everyone for sharing your work or giving your critiques.

>>3870292
Well, your descriptive words aren't really describing anything. And you're calling up disconected images in very generic terms and then using intesifiers on them that would normally be used in really subjective instances. You seem to think we already know what you're talking about. For this sort of thing to work, eiother the images have to communicate for you, or you have to have laid some groundwork. Look at how Wallace Stevens and T.S. Eliot do it. Here i just get that "weird for the sake of weird" sense.

>>3870326

Thanks very much for the response. I have a book by Wallace Stevens, but haven't read it yet. And a friend of mine has recommended T.S. Eliot to me.

Do you think I have any potential? Haha.

>>3870331
It's hard to say. It would help if you wrote something more descriptive of a familiar situation. If i were giving you an assignment I'd say "write me a poem about someone in a sad mood making a peanut butter sandwich" show me something mundane in a different light, and convey through images something without directly stating it. don't use words like "grief" "pain" "sorrow" "hurt" or "loss". show me these things.

>>3870042
A little bit stolen Bukowski, but what's yours in in it is pretty interesting.

>>3870156
>scholar in a field of dreams
Ugly and cliche image, stopped reading.
Yes, this is harsh, but that's how I reacted and how other readers may react. There's no certainty when it comes to art unless it's amazing.

>>3870354

I'll share some poetry with you that I wrote a few years ago about more specific things.

>>3870378
Also, all useful criticism can only be negative. You'll know when you've got it right.

>>3870378

That's fine.

>>3870380
Ugly, boring images. What are you saying that people could get something from, from you and only you?

>>3870378

If you are willing, let me know of what you think of my other poems. They are the ones in the images.

>>3870386

I don't know. Isn't there nothing new under the sun?

And is poetry only about imagery? I suppose I write almost exclusively from feeling.

>>3870387
They don't have that spark that can ignite a poem without technique. Keep writing, or find something else.
Write fully for yourself if you want to write. Then your talent'll emerge if it's there.

>>3870394

Thank you for your input.

It is hard to do something fully for one's self. At least in the way that I think you mean. And I already have a pretty self-defeating attitude. But I will probably soldier on anyways.

>>3870392
It could be that I don't get it. But I can usually see quality. If I even find myself skimming I know that it isn't there. The numinous. That something beyond word and technique that can animate any poem beyond rationality or what feels sincere.

There are always new things under the sun. Even the sun is changing. What you have as a poet is the ability to see things as your own sun - to tell the world how you see it and feel it and become one more sun to light the world. Holy pretentious, but you know what I mean. By virtue of being unique you have something to say. Let it out.

>>3870402

I've been trying. It certainly doesn't come easy.

You see no quality at all? If so, that is fine. You can be blunt. It gives me something to think about.

Anyone else around?

>>3870400
Thanks. My standard is basically "worth remembering forever", so there's that for perspective. Good luck.

>>3870404

So then you would discard most poetry, even a lot of "acclaimed" poetry?

I guess I would at least be glad to know I'm not the only one writing of whom you aren't impressed with. Nothing wrong with having very high standards. I suppose I would feel better if that were the case, haha.

But again, you can be blunt with me. If my work doesn't cut it while most that you read do, I can live with that.

>>3870403
I see only moments of technical quality. It seems like you're trying to do or be something, but poetry gets killed by that (along with anything, IMO). I would say don't try, and let the poems happen if they start. If they do, you're a poet, but identity'll be beside the issue. If they don't, you'll be doing better things.

>>3870404

Share a poem that, to you, is worth remembering forever. That would be cool.

If you don't want to copy paste. Just title, author.

>>3870380
there are contstraints here i don't get, you're still using repetition and really general descriptive words. It's almost as though theres something else supposed to be present to convey what's being left out, like an inflection, or background music. It's like it's a song lyric. That's part of the contraint too: like there's a structural emphasis beyond the scansion that the words alone aren't conveying, but that is needed to grasp the flow of the poem.

Actually, some of this stuff might actually work as a song. As poetry it's mundane and obvious. or it's unevocative and flat because of the generic, subjective description.

phrases like darkening thoughts and tainted memory and "serpent usurpers and the saints in the shell" (horrid) have an essential cadence that musically might be workable.

"weaving a tale of you and i/ into the sands of time" though? Not even music could save a metaphor that badly mixed.

>>3870410

They don't start very often, if ever. I usually don't have poems just tumbling out of my head, waiting to be put to the paper. I wish I did.

It has been hard for me to find anything I am truly exceptional at. And those are the standards I'd like to set for myself.

I don't like being mediocre (in terms of art and expression, I mean). Because I don't really relate to or become inspired by mediocre people. But perhaps I am mediocre anyways.

Such is life, haha.

>>3870407
Yes. But there are plenty of poets that almost everything I read is amazing. I think though that even acclaim is beside the point. I think great poetry is made in spite of acclaim or money or validation. And the author doesn't resent obscurity - in the same way that a musician who plays well can enjoy it by themselves or in a concert. It just doesn't matter. And the less they care, the better the poems. Hell, sometimes the great ones just quit (See: Rimbaud for example, or Lao Tzu who wrote nothing except for one of the best poems in Chinese). It happens and when it stops they don't resist. They do what they do and the opinion of anyone isn't something they chase or reject.

>>3870412

Haha. I actually appreciate that you are being blunt.

That is an astute observation. I don't read much poetry. But, I listen to a lot of music. However, I don't know any instruments.

So, my poetry comes out very much like lyrics. Because that is what I know. I guess that means they are lyrics, just in search of a song.

Maybe once I read poetry, I will write poetry that is more like poetry.

>>3870411
Some:
Anything by Milton.
Almost anything by Coleridge.
Almost anything by Bukowski.
D. H. Lawrence, "Snake".
Anything except the Cantos by Ezra Pound.
Prufrock by T. S. Eliot.
If you feel it, you'll know though. I don't believe in drawing a sharp line between poetry and everything else either. Someone's ten word Tumblr post could be better than the early or late work of a poet who stayed too long and started too early.

>>3870422
Just drop the standards. Be happy with whatever there is to be happy about, and your talent at whatever it is you're good at'll happen. There's no shame in being a great dad, or a great telemarketer, or a great lacrosse player. And external success gets almost meaningless when you're doing what you know you should.

>>3870431

Will definitely check those out. Have read some Coleridge and Bukowski before.

Here's a few more of mine. These will be the last ones I post, in case anyone asks for me to share more.

Thank you very much to all for the feedback and discussion.

>>3870431

You are right in that there is honor and goodness in just simply being a good father or a good layer of bricks or whatever. I certainly do not fault anyone for that. I have great admiration for them.

Art has generally been what I've been drawn to. But I can't draw or paint. I do not see images in my head well. Words, I'm better with.

Anyone else out there have any criticism or feedback to give? Negative or positive?

It means a lot to me. I haven't really shared my work with anyone outside of a small circle of friends. But, I finally decided that I should get some outsider opinions.

>>3870437
I could go on about a few details like how the language is a bit pretentious in places like "but once" and "Oh,". But that's besides the point. I don't actually think your voice is pretentious. I think you haven't found your voice. I don't think this is something from you. Not the heart of you. It's pieced together from your idea of what a poem should be, and the surrounding culture, and appeals to the authority of archaicness and the sacred. Your voice'll flow out of you if you write like you talk or think in your least guarded moments, with the least ego. You might have to write the pretense out of you to get there, or stop caring about making it good or approval or control. Only you can get there. And you will if you have to. If you don't have to, find out what you should do instead.

>>3870443
Looked at another related way, you're the best you. You're perfect at being how you are each moment. If you're fully in your own reality (where you need to be to express [otherwise you're /im-pressing/ - trying to create an image to yourself or others]), your view is the most right and the centre of the poem is you, or the world as you see it. But the point is that looking at things through your own eyes is much more important than expression, although the later can only go well when the former is there.

>>3870456

These are very good responses for me to think on. Thank you.

"I think you haven't found your voice....appeals to the authority of archaicness and the sacred."

I admit. I do seek approval and want it to be "good." I'm a perfectionist. And I don't think mommy or daddy loved me enough when I was a kid. But I do alright for myself.

Do you have anything good to say about my poetry? Anything you like? Even if it is small?

>>3870469
There are quite a few individual lines I like. But the perspective in your poem is all scattered. It comes through on a technical level in the weird mixed metaphors and sudden jumps in general style, but the problem is that there's no one aesthetic because there's no one clear author. It's like fifty vaguely-related, unsure people passed s poem around a party to write a line each.
More importantly, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else think. The audience wants to hear you, not what you think they want. You can't be caring though. In order to express, you can't be seeking approval.
And anyway, from everything in this thread other than your poems, you seem like a pretty cool person. That matters way more. But ultimately you have to see that yourself and decide what it means yourself, or escape caring or trying to see it. That is, if you want to write awesome poetry.

>>3870489

Yeah, my perspective is often scattered. Not all the time though. In some poems, I think I am very consistent. Like I really found what I wanted to say and stayed with it consistently. However, this is not often the case. And I think that at least fits my personality. I'm a chaotic, scatter-brained person. So, my poems kind of come out that way. So, I feel they reflect who I am in that regard at least.

I don't know who my audience is. My friends really like my work. But they aren't experts. They are probably very much like me in many ways, so perhaps that is why they like my poems. Here at /lit/, I am encountering people that are very knowledgeable about books, very literary. And I have not read that much, though I am loathe to admit it. It has never been easy for me, with my attention span (or lack thereof), to sit down and really become engrossed in a book (though it has happened).

Now I'm older and I feel embarrassed that I haven't read much. I feel like I lose "intellectual points" haha. I've been working on reading more. I don't know if it is for me or for how others perceive me. Probably a mixture of both, because I see great value in reading. And I think it would bring me fulfillment, as long as I read stuff that really spoke to me.

Thank you for calling me a "pretty cool person." That means a lot to me. I really mean that. I'm quite self-conscious about myself, so to hear someone tell me that I'm alright makes me feel good. You seem like a cool person yourself. I'm glad we've been able to talk on here. I appreciate you reading and critiquing my work.

Even though you encourage me to distill my work down to just me, to who I really am, what I really want to say, to weed out all that stuff of what a poem should be, what I need to say for people to like it, etc, I feel those poems are still some of the purest expression of who I am that I've managed to create. I see me all over those poems, even if it isn't consistently in each moment of each one.

>>3870489

Oh yeah and out of curiosity, which lines did you like and why?

Anyone else left in this thread?

Well, if the thread is done, then I guess it was a success. Thanks to all.

>>3870570
this is a very slow board, OP don't give up on your thread yet.

>>3870581

Ah okay. I'll stick around for a little while longer. Thanks. I've been really happy with the amount of responses so far, though.

>>3870581

Did you like any of the poems in the thread?

Poetry is shit.

To reach the heart that wanted me
You sought to wipe your hands clean
Lady MacBeth would shout
'A man's duty scrubs his love dry'

Gripping your leg, six foot from the grave
Where the anger chokes and swells
We have reached desperation
Carrion birds pick our bones dry

Bereft in a primordial sea
Excelerated process of entropy
Extradite yourself from the dream long gone
And walk into the world, forgotten by her

A novice born and bred
Duty and other machinations left him without love
Instead of looking forward; he shut his eyes
And chrysalised himself in hopes of blooming one day

I hereby invite you to
Attend a wake of love once shared
Hydrangea left on the pews
A single globe of Amaranth is left each day

Wisdom has stabbed my eyes
Selflessness has brought to mind
My fettered life, siblings whose genes
Siphoned my own, leaving me missing you
More than you'll ever know.

I don't write poetry. This came out of some sordid, maudlin, and entitled place, because I couldn't keep love. Critique me; I want to express myself better.

Confetti of dawn
in the eyes of a teen boy
singularizing.

A house is empty.
The moongleam is earlier
than the waker thinks.

The window frosting
to the touch makes the pane deep
with hibernation.

The afternoon drifts
free of beginning and end
swiftly into mind.

This is the endpoint
where a stranger waves to you.

>>3871693
Obfuscated. Write what you want to say. Don't hide behind your words.

>singularizing
>deep with hibernation
Meaningless

It's a translation.

My mother, looking at me closely,
Pleadingly calls me by the wrong name
I'd never thought about
Why day prevails over night
Why I ask why I have to go to sleep
But not why I wake up
But not why I laugh.
I take a deep breath of splinterair
And spit red wine in her face.
She won't look at me anymore.
I won't wake and I won't wake up.

Still and settled ashes lie
From the flames of yesteryear
Yet amidst the air, what flashes?
Bright spark, soaring without fear
Fettered not to this cold earth

the salamander lives in fire
it knows the color of desire
the cold and icy touch of death
is withered by its blazing breath
the salamander thrives in flame
its blood and flesh always the same
its darting tongue has never lost
the savor of the holocaust
and when the hearth is bare and cold
it takes the color of the mould
and waits in silence and in dark
the fuel, the bellows and the spark.

Enjoy some simple pleasures, do not hurry past
Do not fear your life today, live it like your last

>>3877506
That was awful.

>>3879355
I liked it. It scans, and has a sort of tennyson feel.

Poppin out da bodice
Body like a goddess
Sip my drink and jerk it you know that's that Foster Wallace