/lit/ - Literature

>>4016556
Song of Songs and Mathew are were it's at.
Psalms is brilliant too.

>>4016575
Can we agree that the latter third of the old testament (the prophets+minor prophets) was the worst shit ever?

>>4016575
I was going to say Matthew, too.

Rereading the Book of Job right now. I think this has to be my favorite part.

Ecclesiastes, definitely. A source of tremendous consolation over the past few years.

The story of Jacob from Genesis. It's the most relateable story ever.

Leviticus bitches. Stop sleeping with those dirty bleeding women.

>>4016556
Ecclesiastes and The Gospels, Then the really intense prophetic books especially Ezekiel. They've got a real good poetry to them.

>>4016556
>Paul
>Saul

Jesus christ he's like the worst thing that happened to the NT.

>hurr durr women can't speak or ask questions in churches, it is forbidden, they have to ask their husbands when they get home

>hurr durr lets repeat leviticus and say homosexuals are evil and sinful

Funniest parts are when Paul keeps saying "PLEASE BELIEVE ME IM NOT LYING, IM TELLING THE TRUTH BY THE HOLY SPIRIT"

whenever someone says 'please believe me, im not lying' it reminds me of myself lying as a little kid.

>>4016725

and the worst part about Paul is that he changed the requirements of salvation and he changed Jesus' message completely.

none of the good points Jesus talked about are mentioned, all he mentions is this mentality of ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE WHAT WE BELIEVE WILL BE SAVED...WE ARE THE WINNING TEAM...DEEDS DONT MATTER

>>4016725
>>4016736
samefag pls go. You obv didn't read.

>>4016736
The bible is 2deep4you

Paul is the worst thing that happened to Christianity and the reason I could never take the religion seriously.

The gospels themselves are okay along with epistle of James.

Everything attributed to Paul is an abortion and mockery.

>>4016762
Catholicism is the worst thing that happened to Christianity.

>>4016778
Modern protestant and "emerging church" movements are the worst things that have happened to christianity

Christianity is the worst thing that happened to Western civilization.

>>4016820

>>4016820
It was started in Asia

>>4016824
>It was started in Asia

>implying it didn't enter the west and Happen to it.

>>4016820

Theism is the worst thing that happened to mankind

>>4016820
>>4016823
>>4016824
>>4016830

Can we get back to the book?

>>4016833
>Can we get back to the book?

refer to these posts

>>4016725
>>4016736

/thread

>>4016820
>>4016832
>moderns wallowing in shit until they think everything is else is shit

How did I know a good discussion about the bible is going to be ruined by another edgy, autistic teenager?

>>4016736
how does what paul say about salvation contradict what jesus says? it's pretty unanimous

>>4016575
>Matthew
>not John

>>4016830

It would be interesting to imagine what would have happened had John and Peter not been martyred in Rome. Those events were like a strange attractor of Christian activity.

>>4016868

every time jesus was asked or spoke of salvation it had to do with deeds. people will be judged by what they do.

so that belief in jesus really means believing in what he preached and conforming your actions to his examples.

Paul minimized or ignored deeds altogether and made belief in the Crucifixion the necessary and sufficient requirement, so that faith is really all that matters, the rest is just icing on the cake.

read every parable and every time Jesus spoke about salvation, it's pretty obvious that his message is different than Sauls mumbo jumbo.

>>4016868

every time jesus was asked or spoke of salvation it had to do with being kind, generous, doing good deeds, helping others, etc.

so that "belief in jesus" really translates to believing in what he preached and thus conforming your actions to his examples.

Paul changed this and turned "belief in jesus" into a literal and simple belief in the Crucifixion/Ressurection, as if believing in this event is a magical key that grants you access to heaven.

read every parable and every time Jesus spoke about salvation, it's pretty obvious that his message is different than Sauls mumbo jumbo.

>>4016898

before he died he told people they would be judged by their actions, giving water to the thirsty, being good, etc.

after he died his followers were shocked and appalled so they made claimed he rose from the dead. Then they changed the requirements and said you will be judged by your faith in their claim.

:D

>>4016898
>>4016906
You didn't read it, it shows.

>>4016919

>didn't understand any parables
>didn't read the gospels yet

>>4016919
>you didn't read it
>it
>implying there was only 1

he had many epistles and half of them are incorrectly attributed to him.

anyway, most serious thinkers dislike Paul's writings for good reason. Tolstoy said Paul damaged Jesus' teachings more than anyone.

>>4016937
I don't care what Tolstoy said about St.Paul.

I care about what I think about St.Paul, and from what I'm reading, he has some of the best lines speaking in literary terms. He is captivating, his prose is fun, and he is full of life and love.

Hip young Germanic Jesus in classical robes found to appear more realistic and connect "more prominent" to cliche notion of "a youth" in mind of addled elderly painter.

While a retired paper goods manufacturer speculated at the church spaghetti dinner/silent auction, where the painting failed to sell and was donated to the youth ministries, that a Semitic Jesus is the only way to deal with kids these days. Saying, "Look at that young punk, never got over the war and still running the biker gangs to this day. He needs a rougher Jesus, someone a bit more grotesquely Jewish and nomadic."

The inclusion of the word grotesque with reference to the possible atavistic features of the Jews caused Claudia Duet to roll the wheel chair of the gooodsman in to line for seconds, saying swiftly, in passing to Mr. Shreveport Zion who controlled most of the regions petroleum and natural gas distribution and his lovely wife, "You know he's not well. With the VA and everything. We are all so thankful for you helping us make tonight a success and the new park on Willow Ln."

"Not a thing to worry about my dear." Mr. Zion pulls a hundred thousand dollar bill out of his ~sinister~ pocket with his ~dexterous~ hand, along with a cigar, lights one and then the other and proclaims, "to death, destruction and the control of the media you mongoloid, half-enslaved, blue pilled idiots. To Zion and the general misery of all those lands which hold the diaspora against its home and God by its God!"

The End, a prophecy about that painting

>>4016859
Never thought about it that way.

>>4016937
>Tolstoy as an authority on the Christianity
Tolstoy may have been a decent thinker but let's leave him out of Christianity please.

>>4016957
Tolstoy was one of the few Christians worth his shit/salt
Christianity began as an anti-establishment jewish reformaion,
that most Christians aren't also anarchists/dissidents shocks me

>>4016963
>Not knowing why Christians should be against anarchism
>Claiming Tolstoy was one of the few Christians worth his shit/salt
Are you a protestant?

My favourite part is the gospel of John.

>>4016949
Thanks for contributibung faggot

The purpose of this thread is to talk about good parts of the bible, keep your opinion on Paul or Christianity to yourself. Without Paul, christianity would have stayed a jewish sect. Without christianity, there would be no western civilization.

>>4016963
Haha fuck the police, right?
Grow up and convert to catholizism, you'll probably like liberation theology.

>>4016967
>Without christianity, there would be no western civilization.
As a Christian sort of and Western-feeling guy, can you explain why this is the case?

It seems to be a civilization could have sprung from the ruins of Rome and the expansion of Germanics - that particular dynamic which forced people into a feudal order to defend themselves from Barbarians - regardless if Christianity existed.

In fact, what did Christianity really have to do with aristocratic values, which were blood-based?

There was also the cult of Mythras, pagan mythology, etc.

>>4016964
why should they be?
the NT recognizes no authority but God
why would a proper christian then recognize anything else?

>>4016977
Because in the Christian metaphysics life doesn't really matter except as a test of how much you can endure before you die.

I can see your point though.

Ecclesiastes, Psalms, Gospels, and John. Have yet to read Job but it sounds interesting. What parts of the OT are closest to literature and poetry?

>>4016973
Western Philosophy, which obviously helped shape Western Civilization a lot, pretty much comes from Aristotle and Plato. Aquinas, who was the greatest Scholastic philosopher, pretty much took Aristotle's thought to it's logical conclusion. Obviously there were other Christian thinkers who did this with other philosophers, like Augustine with Plato, but Aquinas is widely regarded as the greatest. Aquinas, following Aristotle's thought, demonstrated that their exists a omnipotent, omniscience, all good God who sustains everything in existence; humans have an immaterial aspect of their being; morality coming from Natural law theory and other things. Obviously if you deny Aristotelian-Scholastic metaphysics, which most contemporary philosophers do, you don't arrive at the same conclusions the Scholastics did.

>>4016977
Have you even heard of Natural Law Theory? If not I recommend you go pick up a book on it before ever talking about Christianity ever again.

>>4016984
>Because in the Christian metaphysics life doesn't really matter except as a test of how much you can endure before you die
That's just totally incorrect. I don't even want to go there at the moment.

Liturgy Time?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLqwwhUHvPQ

>>4016984
hm, I just read Romans 13 and I feel a little silly
'pologies
>>4016987
Don't insult, (asshole), how does the natural law apply to this?
Also it's doctrine not a theory

>>4016989
>Dem Beards
If I was Christian, I think Orthodoxy would be the most appealing. The liturgical services seem to be very sensual and from what I've seen from Catholic liturgics these days they're hardly distinguishable from Lutherans and Episcopalians.

>>4016973
Well, you say it could have sprung from the ruins of rome. Who preserved the knowledge of rome, many latin and greek books? Who was for centuries the only soirce of education? What was the justififcation for charlemagne to unify the germanics, creating today's europe? The catholic church.

>>4016997
I've always felt that it's the CAtholic Church that is the true heir of the Western Roman empire. The liturgical dress, canon law etc are all firmly rooted in the Late Roman Empire.

>>4016997
>Well, you say it could have sprung from the ruins of rome. Who preserved the knowledge of rome, many latin and greek books? Who was for centuries the only soirce of education? What was the justififcation for charlemagne to unify the germanics, creating today's europe? The catholic church.
Byzantium also existed and could have continued to exist without Christianity.

And literacy could have been preserved in the Western part by, like I said, some other religion.

Ecclesiastes will always be my favorite.
Chapter 3 in particular.
John and Matthew were good too.

Also
>KJV
>not DRV

>>4016668

>tfw ecclesiastes gave me my first existential crisis

> religious extensionalism to the rescue

>>4017014
>>4017020

ecclesiastes is pure nihilism and emo tier.

>>4017025
>Ecclesiastes 3
>nihilist or depressing

>>4017025

Dude to be honest I still don't know what to do with my life after reading Ecclesiastes.

>all your work is meaningless

>all your possessions and wealth will just go to someone else

>learning as much as you can is meaningless b/c it's only human wisdom

>tfw no gf

>>4017012
The same byzantium that got destroyed?
And what other religion? A germanic religion wouldn't have preserved roman knowledge. A traditional roman religion would hardly be accepted by the germanics. Christianity was the perfect religion to unify europe and preserve knowledge

>>4017054
>The same byzantium that got destroyed?
Yeah. It spread its civilization to Russia though, which is much bigger.

Resent studies by biblical scholars have come to theorize that Saul of Tarsus a Rabbi, entered into the Rabbinical life because he was a deeply closeted homosexual who couldn't come to terms with it. In Paul's letters he often refers to a "thorn in his flesh and a secret sin he bares," hence why he's not to found of women, hate sex no mater what it was, but even more so homosexuality. It's felt that he persecuted the earlier followers of Christ because Jesus's message of God's unconditional universal love for all people flew in the face of what Saul knew and studied as a Rabbi, IE; Saul was a sinner, the Torah said he was through Leviticus and who was this Jesus character and his followers to say that was no longer true. Saul was a religious zealot, zealots don't like it when people challenge the things they believe. Saul had some deep seated personal issues like so many people today who take up ministry. These issues he struggled with even after he had his "come to Jesus moment" and became Paul and finally understood that god loved him even though he was gay.

>>4017100
I'd love to read these studies, if they even exist. so [citation needed]

>>4017033

>>4017033
>Dude to be honest I still don't know what to do with my life after reading Ecclesiastes.


why are you reading shit? read better stuff instead.

Ecclesiastes is shit nihilism at its worst.

>>4017030

>>Ecclesiastes 3

>everything is meaningless and futile
>work and toil are meaningless


>in conclusion enjoy your toil because God and no explanation.

in fact its nihilistic and retarded.

>>4016580
Agreed.

>reading the bible for personal mythology and not historical reference

ok.

>King James

>>4016725
>>4016736
>not recognizing Paul was speaking to specific audiences and tailoring his arguments, rhetoric as such
was this your first go at reading or something

>>4017100
Paul was asexual you flagrant moron; he even says as much.
in this regard my favorite book is Galatians
those who don't understand the significance of cutting-off will be cut off

we can also use Galatians as a striking example of Paul tailoring his message to best fit his audience, if you had enough discipline to follow Paul's friends through the Bible

I like Luke a lot I guess
haven't read the OT in so long but I rather like Exodus and Jeremiah

>>4017100
> Saul was a religious zealot, zealots don't like it when people challenge the things they believe. Saul had some deep seated personal issues like so many people today who take up ministry

Mein Führer, the scales, I can see!

so is the New Testament in Koine Greek better than the King James version?

Author of >>4017119 gets failing grade for not taking eight seconds to find the following:

Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism: A Bishop Rethinks the Meaning of Scripture. By John Shelby Spong. Harper San Francisco, 1991. 249 pages.

Which anon had not yet noticed. No doubt there are others of the same opinion. The idea that Paul was homosex is compelling, given the Apostle's hatred of women and obsession with sexual mores.

Also. >>4017100:
>>Resent studies
is a winner, up there with
>>gorilla welfare

>>4016967
Thank you for thanking me for my contribution. But thanks should really go to God as the post (passage) was prophecy and I and my typing hands were merely the medium though which the message of the painting's construction and fate were made manifest to you humble hearer of his divine message.

(btw, it succumbs to a great deal of water damage in a storage closet and is then thrown out when the church relocates, wood and canvas reabsorbed into the earth, just if you wanted to know)

If not limited to KJV: Canticle of Canticles, Second Epistle of Peter
If limited to KJV: Jude for the Portishead lyrics.

>>4016859

>whiny pre-modern contrarian defending shit while slowly figuring out that the shit he's defending isn't deep, but, in fact, shit

>>4017574

I'd say its worse if anything, at least as far as literary merit goes.

>>4017649
That's what I figured. Well, at least I'll be able to read Homer and some other queers.

I heard Koine Greek was the plebbiest of all ancient greek dialects.

>>4017651
Well yeah, but also the new testament wasn't written by high brow super educated writers either. It was written by people who are lucky just to be literate.

>>4017674
To the detriment of everybody else.

>>4017674
Ok

Old Testament in the original ancient Hebrew vs. Old Testament King James?

>>4017593
>paul's hatred of women

Paul was a feminist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle_and_women#Egalitarian_views

most of the "anti-women" (though they actually aren't) stuff are from Psuedo-Pauline texts

John's gospel beats everything for me.

>>4017593
>implying homosexuals hate women and are obsessed with sexual mores
>implying Spong isn't a heretic

>>4017674
That's not entirely true. Mark is clearly unpolished, but Luke had some extent of a Greek education. You'll want to read most of the letters in Greek to pick up on the classical rhetorical techniques, too.

as at least one example, the story of the rich man and the camel through the eye of the needle is better in the Greek than in translation, imo

Does the book of Job count?

Hebrews.

It's like Plato lived long enough to hear about Christ, converted, and then wrote shit down.

Psalms.

>>4016556
John's Gospel and Paul's Epistles.

>>4017763
lol.

Quote time from Ecclesiastics 3 (this is a pinnacle of Western Literature):

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

>>4017054
>Christianity was the perfect religion to unify europe and preserve knowledge

Why? Because of it's adaptability to pagan rituals? Because it could oh-so-simply converge with many of the traditions the Germanic people were already following, but with a couple tolerable changes here and there?

>>4017716
>as at least one example, the story of the rich man and the camel through the eye of the needle is better in the Greek than in translation, imo
Care to explain why? This interests me.

>>4017824
setting humanity back by give or take 900 years, yeah.
goddamn, it ruined fucking everything.

>>4017842
>Implying Europe wouldn't still be a squabbling group of tribal barbarians before the East came and buttdevastated everybody, if there was no overall sense of unity brought by the church and its use of Latin

Not to mention, Christianity was dedicated to preserving Roman and Greek literature gave us the classics Western Civilization is founded upon.

>>4017869
>preserving Roman and Greek literature
But not much else. All of the tenuous psychological progress people were making as a whole were shut down. Whatever you think it is that Christianity contributed, it started earlier.
Women's rights were already in progression, they could vote and initiate divorce, etc, etc.
The Persian's where like, "okay just sign here and you can worship whoever. (or some other empire, I get it a little mixed up sometimes).
The Renaissance was essentially the process casting off of religion, which is basically the defining factor between first world and third world countries. And that's not even mentioning the unfathomable amount of knowledge lost to general christian dickery during the crusades or whatever else.

I don't have anything against religion, per se, I think it should be respected as something that, at the very least, brings people hope, but it just really pisses me off sometimes when I think how much longer everything is taking when it was already in the works 2000 years ago.

Sure, it's a little more complicated than that. And maybe if it hadn't been Christianity, a different religion would have stepped up and done the same thing. But it's the fucking future and there are still people rioting in the streets because gay people can't be legally tarred and feathered anymore.

What clear thinking person wouldn't get mad at that? It's the year 2013 and people still run around spitting out the same bigotry as in the year 1320.

Ecclesiastes
Lamentations
Various bits of Kings, Judges, etc. The bit where Elisha just sets some bears on some kids cracks me up.
Proverbs is fun.

I don't like Paul tho

>>4017832
Oh! For one thing, at least the KJV glosses over the subtle difference between Mark/Luke's "Good Teacher, what must I do ... Why do you call me good?" and Matthew's "Teacher, what good things ... Why do you ask me of what is good?" but this might be pedantry and I think other translations differentiate. I've also detected something vaguely anti-trinitarian in the Greek phrasing of "no one is good but the one, the God" but this might just be sloppy reading on my part.

As far as aesthetics, I think that e.g. the line "What is impossible with man is possible with God" sounds better with Greek word order (τα αδυνατα παρα ανθρωποις δυνατα παρα τωι θεωι εστιν) than in English but the meaning is basically the same

>>4017900
>The Renaissance was essentially the process casting off of religion
did you forget the part where the Pope controlled almost literally everything that went on in Italy or something
also Ancient Greek sources condemn homosexuality as badly as incest but nobody can say what the Greeks really believed and so on

>>4016793
>>4016778
>>4016762
>what I don't believe in is the worst thing that has ever happened to Christianity

>>4017900
Are you serious? You think people are homophobic for religious reasons? A homophobe will always find a justification for his homophobia.
It's not like the guys quoting the old testament when it comes to gays are following all the other parts of the old testament.

>how much longer everything is taking when it was already in the works 2000 years ago.

What exactly was in the works 2000 years ago?

>>4017900
You seriously know nothing about Medieval history, but I'll indulge you.

> All of the tenuous psychological progress people were making as a whole were shut down.
Explain.

>Women's rights were already in progression, they could vote and initiate divorce, etc, etc.

That is not true. At least, not in Greece and Rome. Upper class males could vote, women were second class citizens at best and property at worst.

>The Persian's where like, "okay just sign here and you can worship whoever.

No, that was the Khanates, and it wasn't "sign here" it was "Hey, we just demolished the town over there, burned their fields, killed their cattle, and made separate piles of corpses of the men, the women, and the children. Surrender or suffer the same fate. You do? Good. What? No, we don't give a shit who you worship, just pay your damn taxes."

>The Renaissance was essentially the process casting off of religion, which is basically the defining factor between first world and third world countries.

The Renaissance was the arrogant, supposed casting off of darkness/ignorance, not religion. If was casting off of religion, please explain to me how the Spanish Inquisition still happened during the Renaissance. The second part of that statement is unfounded and unfathomably moronic.

>And that's not even mentioning the unfathomable amount of knowledge lost to general christian dickery during the crusades or whatever else.

What knowledge? Do mean the vast amounts of knowledge saved by the Church, or the multitude of Christian scholars from the Middle Ages, or the fact cathedral schools preserved learning, and are, in fact, the basis of modern universities (and the fact that the first European universities were originally cathedral schools)? Also, the 1st Crusade was reactionary to the Turkish invasions of Byzantium, which then sparked a reactionary war from the Muslims, which sparked another Crusade, ect.

>I don't have anything against religion
>general christian dickery
>if it hadn't been Christianity, a different religion would have stepped up and done the same thing
You're a fucking liar.

>But it's the fucking future and there are still people rioting in the streets because gay people can't be legally tarred and feathered anymore.

Both untrue and incredibly hyperbolic.

>>4017986
>did you forget the part where the Pope controlled almost literally everything that went on in Italy or something
The pope controlled everything anyway. It was the whole sciency thing. People started to focus on the "world" instead of the "spirit" like in the antique. Hence, Renaissance. All of the 3rd world countries, none of them were part of the renaissance. Which confuses me, because I mean, China and Arabia? Should totally be a LOT further along than they are.

>>4018125
EVERYTHING. LOOK IT UP.

>>4018167
I should clarify: in Greece and Rome property owners (upper class males) could hold office , men could vote.

>>4018125
Yeah, I think Religion perpetuates to some degree excessively conservative thinking.

>>4018178
>EVERYTHING. LOOK IT UP.
>I HAVE NO ARGUMENT! DO MY RESEARCH AND SOURCE CITING FOR ME!

>>4018187
>IIIH, I'M TOO LAZY TO LOOK SOMETHING UP!

aaaaaaand now the semantics have begun...

>>4018193
>I'M TOO LAZY TO BACK UP MY OWN CLAIMS!

>>4018178
>EVERYTHING. LOOK IT UP.

lel, best argument ever.

>>4018185
>Yeah, I think Religion perpetuates to some degree excessively conservative thinking.

Well I think common sense perpetuates to some degree excessively conservative thinking. conservative thinking does not equal homophobia, faggot.

>>4018199
>conservative thinking does not equal homophobia

Thank you! There's at least one sane person itt.

>>4018198
>I HAVE INFINITE, INSTANT KNOWLEDGE AT MY DISPOSAL, BUT I WANT THIS DRUNK IDIOT TO EXPLAIN IT TO ME SO I CAN PUNCH HOLES IN HIS HALF-ASSED THEORIES BASED ON BIASED INFORMATION DUE TO THE FACT THAT HE HASN'T STUDIED THE TOPIC.
>EVEN THOUGH I THINK HE'S A MORON ANYWAY, I'M GOING TO WASTE BOTH OF OUR TIMES BECAUSE IT VALIDATES A LITTLE BIT.
>PLEASE KILL ME.

>>4018185
>conservative thinking

You can either be conservative or think.

>>4016793
Modern protestants? The roots of nihilism are in the Protestant movement ever taking place.

>>4018218
>I JUST ADMITTED THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO THIS SUBJECT, AND SHOULD EDUCATE MYSELF BEFORE ENTERING INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT! ALSO, I'M STILL A LAZY FUCK WHO WON'T PROVIDE HIS SOURCES, BIASED OR NOT!

>>4018224
>dat false dilemma

How is it over in intellectual dishonesty land?

>>4018218
I bet you could have linked to a source in the time you wrote this post.

>>4018224
You'll grow up one day, too, kid. Where did the hippies go? Straight up to the top of the biggest companies. You think you're smarter than everyone else, right?

>>4018231
I never have any idea what I'm talking about. At any given moment I'm either medicated, drunk or both. Thanks for reiterating what I just said in a condescending way- I got distracted for a bit and forgot.

>>4018240
not the guy you're replying to but haha oh wow, 420 blaze it fgt, huh? I'm willing to bet you're not even 20 yet and you like pretending to be Burroughs and Bukowski

>>4018234
It's not false, conservatism appeals to traditions, which have a logic behind them, but you don't need to understand it in order to be conservative. You renounce to think.

It's not just right wingers but orthodox Marxists who memorize the manifesto for example.

>>4018178
Alexander VI and Julius II were not "average" popes in any regard. You should study the history of popery, as sorry a record of villainy tho it may be.
Which renaissance are you even talking about? Carolingian, Italian, Northern? The fact that Greek works were "rediscovered" owes more to the Muslims obliterating Constantinople and scattering Byzantine intellectuals than to any sort of secularism.

>>4018239
You're right.
Here are the fist four google results.
>http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/03/whats-connection-between-religion-and.html
>http://www.4forums.com/political/gay-rights-debates/10575-religiosity-homophobia-positive-correlation.html
>http://www.oocities.org/gallantcrow/homophobia.html
>http://clearinghouse.missouriwestern.edu/manuscripts/829.php

>>4018240
>At any given moment I'm either medicated, drunk or both

As if that makes it acceptable. Get it your life together.

>>4018261
No.
UGH.
Fuck.

>>4018250
So his statement is basically meaningless since it can be applied to every line of thinking?

>>4018259
Hahahahahaha

That was not the fucking answer to the question. The question was:

>What exactly was in the works 2000 years ago?

>>4018251
People always forget about Charlemagne's Renaissance. Granted, it only lasted with him, but it was still vastly important to Europe's history. Thank you for throwing that out there.

>>4018277
It's like two in the morning and I'm drunk. Also I'm on the internet. I've been looking up indigenous poisonous plants for the last half hour. I'm in no position to argue anything. I've said this like four times. Nobody believes me.

>>4018291
What have you been drinking?

>>4018298
weizen korn

>>4018277
I fail to see how universal application could affect the worth of a tool negatively, you can apply dialectic to everything but that doesn't make it meaningless.

>>4018304
I hate korn and I hate you

>>4018337
I'm super okay with that.

>>4018341
I hate the modern trend of effeminate men using "super" all of the time.

>>4018348
I was under the impression that super was so 2005, but I could use rad if you'd like.

Personally I think changing the way I talk because of trends is retarded, but I don't know.

>>4018358
it may have started in 2005 but it's only amplified since then, like so many other unfortunate 2005 trends.

rad is worse. as is sweet.

>>4018367
I miss sick.

>>4017570
that image makes me sick

>>4018288
yeah, I think that even though the term "renaissance" doesn't fit it in the same way it does to the Italian or Northern Renaissance, the developments of the Carolingian Renaissance are most deserving of being considered a genuine rebirth

>>4018386
"we are not anymore respected nor taken resioulsy, you seem all gone insane, you tried to took us away dignity don't you ?" has a poetic ring to it but I think it was a /pol/ troll or something
a /pol/ with "the worst retarded scum" and shitposting in monstrous volumes does sound pretty outrageous

>>4018386
I think it's hilarious, and the kind of typical hypocrisy one can expect from /pol/.

Is the bible actually good?
You know when youre born in a secularised christian country it all feels silly by default.
What books should I start with? Do I have to read all of them? NT is trash right?

>>4018513
>Is the bible actually good?

Yes

>What books should I start with?

Genesis

>Do I have to read all of them?

yes

>NT is trash right?

No it's the most important part

>>4018523
woaaw I had now idea how old NT actually was. Thanks, I can see now.

>>4018556

Not nearly as old as is typically imagined (by the ignorant.)

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/