/lit/ - Literature

Kinda like refinding God under the ego?

>we also have to kill off the conception of the ego or subject itself

not gonna happen, sperg

>Nietzsche did not realize that we also have to kill off the conception of the ego or subject itself. Only then will we be truly free, killing God was the easy part.

He did, he said that many times. Thats why he always wrote that the body is the truly measure, the ego is only a tool of it. The man who can affirm life, does it with the body, not with the ''I''. You haven't read much Nietzsche son.

read it again.

>>4040514
>Nietzsche did not realize that we also have to kill off the conception of the ego or subject itself. Only then will we be truly free, killing God was the easy part.

Confirmed for plebeian who pretends to have read Nietzsche. He argued strongly against this point; Christ, he even went as far to call it nihilism. And Nietzsche was not attempting to replace God with man, for Nietzsche believed that God signified absolute truth-which he didn't believe in. He felt that everything was a perspective, but that some are ultimately weaker physiologically speaking than others.

Did you really read any bit of Nietzsche? Are you one of those guys who read the phrase "God is Dead" separated from any of the original context? Nietzsche's quarell with religion is only part of his war against metaphysics as a whole. If you think Nietzsche didn't adress the thing/subject in itself notion, you have not read any of his books. You should be ashamed of not reading the single fucking aphorism in which the "God is Dead" phrase is more fully explained.

Please, do yourself a favor: http://www.historyguide.org/europe/madman.html

tl;dr: philosophers had already abandoned religion, but they still clinged to metaphysic (like Nietzsche's former idol Schopenhauer) and for that Nietzsche mocks them.

I feel really sorry for OP.

fuck you Friedrich you little piece of shit, why don't you leave me alone and ignorant? you fuck my little quiet life

>>4040524
I'm aware that Nietzsche seems to have had a very fluid view of the self, but he still clung to a project of self perfection and self creation, a cult of physical health and psychological invincibility which was quite foolish.

>>4040527
>He felt that everything was a perspective

Yeah ok, but he wasn't a relativist, he saw some perspectives as clearly superior and healthier than others. And he sought to affirm his own sense of self eternally.

>>4040533
I'm well aware of the metaphysical context, this does not change anything.

>>4040564
It's not about perfection or psychological invincibility, much to the contrary, he insist that we pass through all in life without denying it, it's not about being perfect, but to be able to live life without justifying it by any other standards than life itself. It's the ability to embrace suffering as part of being, not being psychological omnipotent, because that would imply in negating other aspects of life. The over-man,or whatever the hell you want to call it is not what humans should thrive to be, but just that moment, when nothing justifies your action but yourself, that is over-man, and that's exactly what Nietzsche is saying, embrace life with all its discontents, not thriving for perfection.

>>4040564
>he saw some perspectives as clearly superior and healthier than others. And he sought to affirm his own sense of self eternally.

Did you not read my post fully? I made it clear that he wasn't a true relativist when I typed:

>some are ultimately weaker physiologically speaking than others.

Jesus, you're not the brightest one are you? First you come in here pretending to have read Nietzsche, and now you fail to even read the posts in this thread with accuracy.

>>4040573
that's certainly one peculiar interpretation of the overman, but if that's what he meant, then it's pretty banal isn't it?

>>4040578
you don't get my point, he's still obsessed with the subject as self creator and affirmer of itself, that's his mistake

>>4040514
No. He wrote about the illusion of principium individuationis, the Apollonian, and its couterpart, the Dionysian. The Übermensch is the rebirth of the latter.

>>4042038
the overman is supposed to both combine and transcend that whole thing, as well as the master slave thing too

>>4042059
Yeah, that! Didn't remember it exactly.

>>4040514
Good thing we have shitty post-structuralists to give us botched and politically stagnant interpretations of Eastern philosophies.

Derrida, I'm looking at you.

Nietzsche is small time compared to Stirner, the king of edge.

>>4040514
>kill off the conception of the ego or subject itself
Human nature might be a bit of an obstacle to that.

>implying the Singularity isn't the Übermensch

>>4043356
>human nature

OP your post kinda sounds like an anime plot

Did I somehow misread Nietzsche?
Because I always thought he valued Individualism. That each of us should pursue our own goals and strive for perfection no matter what happens to us.

>>4040514
>tfw Zen icon
God is indestructible, God is Sufficient Reason, that's the empty throne atop which 'he' or whatever affix you want to assign only one can sit, and its none of us

Read Spinoza

>>4043356
hue

>>4040514

The text:

"Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is it not more and more night coming on all the time? Must not lanterns be lit in the morning? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God's decomposition? Gods too decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we not ourselves become gods simply to be worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whosoever shall be born after us - for the sake of this deed he shall be part of a higher history than all history hitherto."

Here the madman fell silent and again regarded his listeners; and they too were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern to the ground, and it broke and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time has not come yet. The tremendous event is still on its way, still travelling - it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time, the light of the stars requires time, deeds require time even after they are done, before they can be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than the distant stars - and yet they have done it themselves."

It has been further related that on that same day the madman entered divers churches and there sang a requiem. Led out and quietened, he is said to have retorted each time: "what are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchres of God?"

>>4044831

Seems pretty obvious that the killing of God is reckoned to be the motivator of humanity, the idea that what we do will need to create our own divine actions (not just to replace, but to transcend). My reading is all.

Eastern thought is garbage. Back to the glory of Plato and the Abrahamic religions we were belong.

>>4044831
>implying anyone can corner the dorner
That's what it sounds like

>>4044846
where we belong, rather

>>4044846
Eastern thought runs parallel to western thought, give it an actual read and you'll see its all the same, but people in the west have taken it all to mean something its not out of their own desire to hate everything they are

If you see actual asians, you'll know they are more like us than we are like them

>>4044846

ironic because it was socrates who could be blamed for instigating the death of god.

>>4044856
Only an inmortal can kill another inmortal.

Take a hint for what it is

>>4044859

I'm going to take the hint that english isn't your first language. [immortal*]

Anyway, logic is the murderer of god.

>>4044854
>Eastern thought runs parallel to western thought

no it doesn't, they are built on completely different foundations with different premises

>give it an actual read and you'll see its all the same

it isn't

>If you see actual asians, you'll know they are more like us than we are like them

that doesn't even make sense.

>>4044856
>ironic because it was socrates who could be blamed for instigating the death of god.

no he can't.
Socrates and Descartes were both skeptics, but they were both sensible skeptics that knew that you need to believe some basic idea in order not to fall into complete stupidity. Socrates believed in his god, Descartes believed in God - never once did either of them question this belief they had, even though they went further than anybody else in doubting everything.
Modern skeptics doubt even the things that shouldn't be doubted, and that's why they are so fucked.
The best example of a skeptic is a child, because they always wondering and asking "why?" But the best skeptic needs a God, and the child has a parent to tell him when to stop asking "why" and be satisfied.

>>4044867
I thought my name had already shed a light on that, and thanks

>logic is the murderer of god
Logic is a red herring, Spinoza again

>>4044868
>no it doesn't, they are built on completely different foundations with different premises
Is it? Have you read Lao Tse or Confucious?
Is it really?

>it isn't
Elucidate

>that doesn't even make sense.
Go to China, Japan, Vietnam, the Philipines, they've all abandoned their ancient culture in exchange for western civilization, all that remains is a particular flavour of western civilization mixed with some localisms and stuff

If you want to be a pretentius weaboo/eastaboo, have at me, but that's your own particular interpretation of everything eastern philosophy and culture has to offer

An interpretation that is only valid within your deluded little heads

>>4044868
>but they were both sensible skeptics that knew that you need to believe some basic idea in order not to fall into complete stupidity.

Sidebar: has any philosopher ever spoken/written about this idea?

>>4044874

Spinoza used logic to prove his concept of god; a soulless and cold husk of a concept. It couldn't and didn't make up for God's death.

>>4044878
Eastern thought rejects this world as an illusion, and enlightenment is detachment from the illusion of this world.

Western thought rejects this world as an illusion, and in its places sets-up a higher world, a metaphysical world, and an enlightenment is seeing this higher world.

>Go to China, Japan, Vietnam, the Philipines, they've all abandoned their ancient culture in exchange for western civilization, all that remains is a particular flavour of western civilization mixed with some localisms and stuff

That isn't really western culture, that is capitalist culture. That has little to do with Western culture in the sense of Graeco-Roman philosophy and medieaval art and romance. Western culture is what is underneath the capitalist culture which has become dominant, and Eastern culture still exists over there, underneath the capitalist culture that has dominated there also.

>>4044889
All philosophers distrust faith but embrace it as a compromise among a number of awful compromises in some way or form

>>4044892
The problem is that people had way too many missconceptions and wanted god to be some form of caring, paternalistic hyper dictator

When it was proven that such thing is hilariously wrong, they all got emo and began claiming that god is evil because he lets the world be shit

The issue is, the world is shit because everything is shit, rather than because there's a higher deity wanting ill upon all of us

That's what people simply refuse to fathom, so they stop believing in god as a form of defiance rather than something they honestly think

>>4044889
Kierkegaard mentions it in passing in the first couple of paragraphs of Fear and Trembling

http://www.ccel.org/k/kierkegaard/selections/trembling.htm

He sarcastically denounces the speculative philosophers of his age for believing that it was so easy to doubt everything like Descartes and Socrates did, and to "move past" this doubt into speculative philosophy.
He doesn't mention Socrates by name there, but he refers to Socrates elsewhere in his writings.

>>4044893
>Eastern thought rejects this world as an illusion, and enlightenment is detachment from the illusion of this world.

>Western thought rejects this world as an illusion, and in its places sets-up a higher world, a metaphysical world, and an enlightenment is seeing this higher world.
I hope you realize you are just regurgitating the same things with a few goal posts moved to further a bias in favour of either western thought, or eastern thought, that is born out of you lacking some insight as to what eastern thinkers actually wrote about

>That isn't really western culture, that is capitalist culture. That has little to do with Western culture in the sense of Graeco-Roman philosophy and medieaval art and romance. Western culture is what is underneath the capitalist culture which has become dominant, and Eastern culture still exists over there, underneath the capitalist culture that has dominated there also.
Your marxist inspired spite of Modern Asian culture is hilarious

>>4044893

Capitalism is just the socio-economic ideology of the times. Our culture is Graeco-Roman and Semitic flavored to its core, and that's what sets us apart from the East.

>>4044896

There's nothing faith-invoking or 'divine' about a dichotomous spinozism

>>4044902
I don't see how it is spite, and I don't see how it marxist inspired. If anything you are spiting them by saying that they have lost their culture. I'm saying that they have kept their culture as we have kept ours, it's just that both of our cultures are now underground, beneath a global market economy culture.

>>4044904
>Our culture is Graeco-Roman and Semitic flavored to its core
This is true

>and that's what sets us apart from the East.
This is hilariously biased in favour of the west, when in reality, different peoples separated by huge distances actually came to the realization of an almost verbatim EXACT SAME BUNCH OF CONCLUSIONS

>>4044907
>There's nothing faith-invoking or 'divine' about a dichotomous spinozism
There's nothing that invokes upon your euphoria in spinozism, that's what, and you dislike it, because you wish you could be a child and believe in some kind of homeric god that cares about you

But instead you are an adult that knows that god, if it exists doesn't give jack shit about you, and if it doesn't, may as well just be the same as the former

>>4044910

What equivalent did the east have to say...

syllogisms

>>4044908
>I don't see how it is spite
You said it yourself, you see their 'rejection' of their previous culture to be disgusting, when reality its just evolution taking over and a natural conclusion that trade only sped up

>and I don't see how it marxist inspired.
Whenever you start criticizing capitalism, you may as well be a marxist, because that's one of the stools over which capitalist criticism is based upon

A criticism that is very valid but that proposes absolutely nothing new that is actually a viable alternative

I.e: we are stuck with a world that is made of shit and which can only be improved upon

>>4044910

Graeco-Roman and Semitic influence is only preferable if you come from the mindset that it is superior.

I don't see how you could honestly assert that except with so caveats such that it was a meaningless claim.

I prefer Western culture because I am a product of it.

>>4044914

And there we are, God is dead. At least Kierkegaard was a bit more humane than Spinoza. Could you also stop calling me a child. I don't know many children searching for God these days, do you?

>>4044910
>This is hilariously biased in favour of the west, when in reality, different peoples separated by huge distances actually came to the realization of an almost verbatim EXACT SAME BUNCH OF CONCLUSIONS

but the Easterners never came to believe in Original Sin or the divinity of Jesus Christ, whereas most of Europe did for a time.

The west has been heavily influenced by Plato, who believed that reality was something that must be seen through contemplation. The east have a seemingly similar view, but in reality it is completely different, because while Plato believed that you were so supposed to get out of the cave and see the sun, the easterns reject the cave and the sun, seeing everything as an illusion. This is why Plato believed in things like justice and good & evil, where Laotze

>When beauty is abstracted
>Then ugliness has been implied;
>When good is abstracted
>Then evil has been implied.

>...

>The sage experiences without abstraction,
>And accomplishes without action;

this is very different from Plato and the west.

>>4044920
>I don't know many children searching for God these days, do you?
I would start by yourself, the denial is rich, almost tender, you ache for the love of something bigger than yourself, but upon lacking said thing, you come to the conclussion that the universe is a cold, anti-human place where everyone should feel out of place and miserable

>>4044923
>but the Easterners never came to believe in Original Sin or the divinity of Jesus Christ, whereas most of Europe did for a time.
Tokenisms that were never entirely part of the original canon, in fact, the Catholic Church kind of took the original shit and started reving it up with all kinds of stupidic stuff

>Laotze
Laotze is a Cynic, he is Plato's Socrates

>>4044926

I never claimed any of that, though your sentiments on my actual posts are pretty charming.

>>4044928
>talking shit
drop trip

>>4044930
Fine, but you still got to say how the hell the whole mesianic stuff is anything other than a token thing that was invented afterwards

>>4044892

>implying Spinoza's philosophy isn't the warmest and most beautiful expression crafted in the last 2000 years

>>4044942
pantheism is horrible though
it's very beautiful while you looking at the stars and the clouds and the lakes, but once you look into the corners of the world you realize that a philosophy is needed which takes evil in to account as well as good, and pantheism doesn't properly account for evil.

>>4044942

I felt it was pretty close to stoicism.

>stoic = cold

nope, but still.

>>4044935

?? what ??

>>4040555

-wittgenstein

>>4044960

Affects, man

>>4044973
What you just said about Jesus Christ, how do you prove that part of the stuff is actually real

The bible only refers to Jesus as the 'son of man' rather than as all that fluff the catholic church invented after, and that is, only tangentially, in the book of apocalypse which has been already agreed upon is a latter entry to the production of the original biblical texts (new testament in particular)

>>4044960
>pantheism doesn't properly account for evil
That's where Rawls, justice and all that bullcrap kick in

The problem is that social justice warriors are way too keen to be a bunch of pedant manchildren instead of actually following what Rawls said, and what sufficient reason says

In fact, a complete and critical read of most of what western thought has to offer should clear most of the doubts

But the SJW manchildren are such a bunch of anti-intellectual fucks that they dismiss everything as TL;DR instead of trying to inform themselves further as the self-described free thinkers they are supposed to be

And instead become the Pol Pot's of our time

But no... reading is for faggots and muh socialismus fuk yer

Bunch of hypocritical fucks

Can't we have different clusters of thought and shit?

>>4045034
Since when that's been a crime? We have yet to get into thought crime, but liberals are definitely looking forward to it

Moe anime is destroying the pillars of what was already a pseudo intellectual entity.

>>4045038
You clearly have never watched anime

Most animes have socially critical themes

>>4044846
Plato's shit is bull, as well.

>>4045043
Nice job at being Plato, Socrates

>>4045043
nah, Plato is the shit.

fuck Heraclitus, fuck Nietzsche, fuck both Wittgensteins, fuck anybody that believes in action and flux instead of identity and being.

>>4045040
I watch hidamari sketch and have watched keion and chuuni and dem.
The worlds are like the religious communities put forward by More.
Shit don't work like that, baby. May be I need to give up on fiction. Philosophy seems more realistic.

>>4045048
That's a strawman of Socrates who is a Strawman of Plato

>>4045049
>Shit don't work like that, baby
Only if your mind is on drugs

Philosophy is never realistic, that's why its philosophy

>putting a ban on thinking
Nice job, Hitler, you dun goofed

>>4045064
>what is realism

>>4045067
What is the dick? - Descartes

>>4045021

>Original Sin or the divinity of Jesus Christ, whereas most of Europe did for a time.


wasn't me but how to prove anything in anything that isn't primary source.

>>4045075
The thing is, how do we determine what is the original source and what's fiction

Protip: Sufficient reason

>>4045068

>>4045021
You're severely mistaking reticence on Jesus' part for claiming to be the Messiah (which would have [and did] gotten him executed) for actual reluctance toward being the Messiah. Are you saying Matt 16:13-20 was fabricated? "Son of man" itself had Messianic connotations from David by Christ's time.
Patristics and disciples certainly used a lot of imaginative hermeneutics with regards to the Old Testament (or rather the Septuagint) in interpreting signs, prophecies of the Messiah and so on, but you're going to have to somehow prove that the gospels were fabricated by the church and that you have the real testament of Christ for what you appear to be arguing.
Original sin is complicated matter and I'm not a Catholic so I don't know that much about it, but it's better to think of it as a counterweight to Christ than a state of eternal being (or maybe sin is Being; Christ is Becoming or something dumb and Aristotelian); this might be heretical

unless you're talking about doctrinal stuff about trinity but that's still more a matter of interpretation than of clear fact
incidentally I find myself disliking people who think that Christ was a Stoic more and more each day
of course everyone has access to Christ in their own way or something I guess

>>4045076

youcant

>>4045087
You now realize that may as well have been the real deal

>>4045048
True, I don't like dat wittgenstein.

>>4045088
>"Son of man" itself had Messianic connotations from David by Christ's time.
That's right Connotations

>Patristics and disciples certainly used a lot of imaginative hermeneutics with regards to the Old Testament (or rather the Septuagint) in interpreting signs, prophecies of the Messiah and so on, but you're going to have to somehow prove that the gospels were fabricated by the church and that you have the real testament of Christ for what you appear to be arguing.
Why did you rule out them being over euphoric about Jesus writings?

>Original sin is complicated matter and I'm not a Catholic so I don't know that much about it, but it's better to think of it as a counterweight to Christ than a state of eternal being (or maybe sin is Being; Christ is Becoming or something dumb and Aristotelian); this might be heretical
I would stop feeling too uncomfortable over it, theologicians go crazy discussing these things every day

>unless you're talking about doctrinal stuff about trinity but that's still more a matter of interpretation than of clear fact
Doctrine is hypocrisy of the highest order, the Modern Church should call itself Nestorian, Monothelite and Orthodox, Trinitarian, Nicene and every other name, because they admitted to all of the heresies openly

>incidentally I find myself disliking people who think that Christ was a Stoic more and more each day
People are euphoric, that's what you should hate

>of course everyone has access to Christ in their own way or something I guess
Yup

Obviously, fucking horses is out of the window, but you knew this already, right?

>Suddenly you realise all fiction is an attempt at divine contact
>yfw jesus lives
>yfw literature is for high functioning autists
>yfw you have no face

If it takes a religion telling you what to do, you should seriously seek therapy

>>4045021

We could play this game with eastern thinkers too.

>>4045104

>>>/reddit/

>>4045107
We can play it for all thinkers who have been missinterpreted and taken to be what the original readers never took them to be... or did the original readers actually give a shit?

>>4045104
All your ethics come from theistic thinkers.

>>4045109
Am serious, everything religions say, is meant to be a Cheat sheet for people too autistic to notice something's up

The problem is that people manage to out-tism religions and psychology even then

>>4045115
All thinkers are theists with dad issues

>>4045110

>tfw wittgenstein's language games imply that we never really had a true reading

>>4045119
And never will, because we are all blind men playing pretend that we see more than the rest

This is the world we live in.

Protip: my side will always win, because reasons and because I like how it smells, so it will always win even in the face of armageddon, but you will always claim I like something that is definitely something different from what I actually think

>>4045123
This isn't fully true.
We use ideas of perceived subjective phenomena in order to create machinations and hybrids that could increase our life expectancy and to build towers.

>>4045129
What's fully true?

And you just agreed to what I said using different words

>>4045118
le freud fallacy face

>>4045117

What are you getting at?

Christianity is an autist movement?

>The problem is that people manage to out-tism religions and psychology even then

Rephrase if you'd be so kind, unless you really don't have anything sensible to say.

>[Convergence event inmininent]

>>4045117
Fuck that.
The catholic church, while some crazy shit, was the only thing keeping things civilised in the face of all those lombards and shit. You want western civilisation to be somalia pre?
Some flowers grow in the dirt.

>>4045133
>I have mom issues so I will deny vehemently that Freud was right, and that the only reason I am after other women or men rather than mom and dad is something other than the risk of chastration

Your tears are precious

>What are you getting at?
Is that a rethoric question?

>Christianity is an autist movement?
Again, are you playing me for dumb?

>>4045131
But subjective phenomena are still something and the thing remains, so it is more than something else. Surely we should be positive in creating something as complex and tall as possible?

>>4045135
Am as much in favour of western civilization as you are, just criticism incorporated

>>4045138

are you a 'freudian'?

>are you playing me for dumb

It's so heavily implied that I could consider you as being so even now.

>>4045139
Here's the reply: I don't know, you don't know
We all go as far as our sufficient reason takes us

>>4045142
>are you a 'freudian'?
Is the entirety of what's been discussed so far lost upon you?

>It's so heavily implied that I could consider you as being so even now.
Did I deny it?

>>4045144
But "I don't know" is just the first step.
It doesn't matter if you don't know.
If you recognise phenomena, that is something and you build out of that.

>>4045147

So anyway I asked you to coherently phrase your argument

>implying you aren't wasting posts

>>4045148
Why yes, of course

>>4045150
I tried as much as I can to coherently phrase my argument

Its simple: people strawman other people and then criticize what they see in others as bad and inefficient

If the target of the criticism is around, he will either take the criticism and apply patches publicly, or will deny it as much as feasibly possible and may avoid or follow the criticism

>>4045153

>people strawman other people and then criticize what they see in others as bad and inefficient

compared to:

>everything religions say, is meant to be a Cheat sheet for people too autistic to notice something's up

The problem is that people manage to out-tism religions and psychology even then

So I was defending theistic ethics, and you were where? Or do you want me to strawman you?

>>4045135
While I agree with you, it wasn't necessarily the Church what kept the West going smoothly. It was, indeed, all the West sharing a common enemy, in this case the Moors, what kept them (us) evolving together.
We strive only when we share common enemies. The problem today is that people are forgetting this basic principle.

>>4045163
>So I was defending theistic ethics, and you were where? Or do you want me to strawman you?
The fact that you use the word theistic denotes that you believe yourself superior to theistic ethics

>>4045169
Wasn't the catholic church keeping greek and roman thought alive? These are the backbone of many things.

>>4045182

Could I ask why the word 'theistic' logically implies a pejorative stance to theistic ethics?

not much else i can do with that reply.

>>4045190
Been around self-described atheists for way too long to take the word as having any positive connotations, it suggests a hint of self-applied superiority of the sender that somebody who disagrees with his farsical, nihilist outlook of the world has to accept

>>4045194
Nice.

I'm using it to differentiate it from atheistic ethics, if that's not too much to handle with all your connotations.

>>4045194
> it suggests a hint of self-applied superiority of the sender that somebody who disagrees with his farsical, nihilist outlook of the world has to accept

Dat projection.

>>4045205
>atheistic ethics
That's a contradiction in itself

>>4045214
How does one's personal beliefs, actions and such weight in an argument? And what is the person that does such a thing, other than an evangelist?

>>4045217

Ethics without God is a contradiction?

Extrapolate could you, this is gearing up to be a bit fruity.

>>4045115
theistic thinkers ethics came from their societies, not god, they didn't live in a vacuum

>>4045221
Could care less about god, one would think whatever is up there is more than enough of a man to understand that it needn't anyone's protection

Am more concerned about your self-description as believers in nothing, but then the hilarious claim to believe in something, which is, a hilarious strawman that's been dealt with by Aquinas and Spinoza

>>4045135
>giving rome's accomplishments to a semitic religion

>>4045228

Never did I claim I was Antitheist, Atheist or Theist. I don't know where you're arguing from either. On the one hand you decry your god, on the other you set out to define him (arbitrarily but in earnest). Deal with your own faith issues first. Read some Kierkegaard or Augustine or something.

>>4045241
What's been suggested is exactly that, a suggestion

Every time you batter against theism or connote against it some way you are being anti-theistic

Just because western civ tries so hard to turn God into a mind-trip and therefore fails it doesn't change anything regarding God's ineffable nature.

Kierkegaard is a gigantic tool, whoever is knight, cares about others and does something, which implies that they will at some point fuck up
Whoever is a peasant, and cares, is a knight, and will fuck up at some point due to action too, and/or inaction just like the knight

So why the fuck brand either knights, instead of simply calling them decent normal people, his entire work is riddled to these stupidic elitist connotations

>to these
with these

>>4045257

>hasn't read kierkegaard

is ultimate monotheism the fate of any religious tradition?

>>4045266
Quiet you

>>4045248

I don't honestly thing you know what you're talking about on either side of the fence or any measure straddled.

>>4045267

It's generally the beginning or end point of any pantheon.

>>4045288
I absolutely know where I am talking about, and that's why I want to be nowhere close to your side of the fence

Or maybe am fooling myself because I can observe you doing something stupid, and think it will fail to happen to myself

Its impossible to tell

>>4045292

But i've not laid out where i sit. You're just attacking things like an angry blind man a la >>4045123

>>4045302
I just admitted so: >>4045297

>>4045305

>>4045312
>both posts came right at the same minute

>>4045316
what is it about nietszche and madness.