/lit/ - Literature

>As a girl, being “selfish” was the worst thing you could be. Now you live in Narnia and Prince Caspian just proposed marriage to you. Why? Your SELF is what saved everyone from that sea serpent. Plus your hair looks totally great braided like that.

This just in, selfishness is now a virtue.

>>4935951
>>A girl making herself the hero of her own story is a radical act. Stop shaming girls for doing it. Stop shaming yourself for it.
Where did that aggression come from? Is Mary-Sue-shaming a new tumblr issue?

But yes, idealized, perfect characters make children feel better. Great insight.

>>4935951

>>4935972
/pol/ please go that girl has a point.

>>4935965
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh?

>>4935972
Why don't people like this try creating their own stuff the way they like it instead of trying to pressure other people into pandering to them?

>>4935995
Because they are creatively insecure or stupid.

>>4935995
Why do feminists bitch harder about video games and movies than they do real life problems?

>>4935995
Because reading is different from writing? You realise that white pandering is still pandering, right? It doesn't magically become pandering when the target demographic isn't you anymore.

>>4935972
didn't a bunch of crackers throw a hissyfit at GoT having a blackie? muh suspension of disbelief

>>4936001
>You realise that white pandering is still pandering, right?

Pandering is when you go out of your way to appease a group of people (e.g. whiny minorities). Simply writing what is natural to you is not pandering, even if that writing does happen to favour one demographic over another.

>>4936000
Because first world women face almost no problems and make up the majority of degrees yet are lazy or get useless degrees so they bitch about not making $300k starting and how everyone should be forced to gain 100 pounds of fat and bang everything that walks until the next morning and then it was definitely rape

>>4936000
Feminists =! Bored teenage girls on tumblr

The first set does include most of the second set, but this smaller set only makes up a tiny amount of "Feminists" as a whole.

>>4936000
Because feminists tend to be privileged middle class people from first world countries with no sense of perspective.

>>4936004
Don't blacks cry about everything, nonstop?

>Muh whitey

>>4936009
You realise that white teenage to young adult boys is a minority as well? Pandering exclusively to a minority you are a part of or once where is by far the most common type.

>>4936004
>black character appears on Game of Thrones
>he's a criminal

>>4936011
How can one person be this mad? You seem actually mentally disturbed.

>Girls can't do anything wrong you sexist
What's new

>>4936021
I haven't read or watched much GoT but from what I've heard, isn't calling any of the characters a criminal more than a bit redundant?

>>4936021
it's called realism

>>4936029
I think he means the pirate? In which case being a criminal is literally his profession.

>>4936021
It's okay on Law & Order SVU an entire episode was dedicated to tracking down the evil white guy who can't get laid so he rapes the innocent LGBTBBQ community and Ice Cube takes him down while he is literally wearing a blue collared shirt calling him a rapist over and over. Then that lady cop who apparently is now a lesbian made sure to taunt him about how she and other lesbians totally get laid and he'a a weenie.

>>4936032
the vast majority of pirates irl are black. is reality also guilty of racist stereotyping?

>>4936033
>>>/reddit/

>>4936032
>I think he means the pirate? In which case being a criminal is literally his profession.
yes

>>4936033
topkek

>>4936037
>>>/pol/

Seriously. What are you proving by shitposting here?

>>4936039
That doesn't even make any sense you retarded nigger

>>4936037
>the vast majority of niggers irl are black. is reality also guilty of racist stereotyping?

>>4936044
>Waaaaaah, you've offended me here today on 4chan

Not that guy but it's time to stop this. You are the one shitposting. You wasting a comment to bitch that you don't like something is shitposting. You justifying it and spamming crossboard links for the next three posts will still be shitposting.

>>4936063
It's just inane /pol/ and /b/ shit. It doesn't belong here. There is nothing even vaguely to do with literature in this thread other than the OP.

>>4936063
Oh the name field was superfluous. More coffee is needed. Polite sage.

>>4936045
keep your retarded edginess to reddit

This only happens because people don't read enough to appreciate flawed characters.

So people just found out Narnia is shit?
Oh wow.

>>4936004
The blackie in Desolation of Smaug shattered my suspension of disbelief. All I could think about was the forced pandering to diversity.

Why are black people so entitled? Oh no! There are no black characters in a medieval european fantasy setting! I wonder why?

>>4936107
if there weren't any niggers then why was it called the dark ages?

get scribed bitch

>>4936107
Yeah I don't watch Menace 2 Society and bitch about the lack of diversity. Some works of fiction just happen to take place in undiverse settings. Get over it. If some black author decided to write a fantasy series in which almost every character was black and I would happily read it as long as it was good. In fact a fantasy setting modelled around African folklore mite b cool.

>>4936011
>>4936009

you so mad.

>muh misandry
>me so honky

>>4936119
I do find it hilarious that these books have dwarfs, elves, dragons, fireballs and people throw a fit when they include black people and write down THAT as a line fantasy shouldn't cross.

>>4936032
Yes but the laws change continually in that thing. As soon as one king is overthrown by another, his supporters are literally criminals. The execution of Sean Bean was a criminal act, the red wingding was a criminal act, pretty much everyone is a murderer. Hell even house octopus sustains itself by raiding it's neighbours. They're all in a state of continual warfare so the word criminal means nothing.

>>4936145
literature is for white people. you lot have your hip-hop and jazz, so stick to it.

continuing >>4936150 by pirate law, pirates are not criminals. It's a stupid thing to say. They're just on a different team. "Criminal" is relative.

>>4936152
?

>>4936000

Because you're not reading actual feminist literature, just teens voicing personal grievances on Facebook and tumblr

>>4936107

Except European fantasy settings are not ACTUAL European history

Quit going on about

>MY HISTORICAL ACCURACY

In a setting that isn't even real history.

>>4936119
>In fact a fantasy setting modelled around African folklore mite b cool.

While that would be interesting, I could see a group of people getting upset if the author of that story did not come from their cultural background.

Another caveat of this situation could come in that these same complainers (let's say African-Americans) are no more connected to the original African culture than the white American writing the story. For instance, I'm Irish, and I certainly wouldn't take into consideration the opinion of an Irish-American (2nd generation and beyond) as to what is considered the bastardisation of Irish mythology considering they're about as Irish as any other American in my eyes.

>>4936194
That makes it even less important for there to be black people in the setting. What if humans evolved differently on this fantasy planet and there exists nothing but fair skinned races? Why the fuck are you getting butthurt about someone else's fantasy anyway? You're a fucking consumer. GRRM doesn't write shit for you. He writes for himself. Being a fan entitles you to nothing.

>>4936107
>No black people in Medieval Europe

Uhh, how do I say this to you?

>>4936209
>You're a fucking consumer

Neo-liberals plz go.

>>4936194
You could argue that the way the universe is presented does have a kind of logic behind it. Why would black people be present in Northern European climes (typical fantasy setting)? What would make them black?

If we are including black people with some kind of explanation (it wouldn't be difficult, let's say that they practice magic or live in a place that turns your skin black/changes your facial structure/whatever) would it not just feel like some kind of forced attempt to diversify the cast in order to appeal to a wider demographic, thereby diluting the artistic vision the creator originally held?

You can make the argument that not including black characters is still pandering to a different kind of demographic - but I would disagree. I would say that something becomes pandering if there is a conscious decision to make a character a certain way purely for the sake of appealing to a wider demographic.

>>4936212
Oh no. There's no niggers in Vikings. What a racist show. Shame on you, Discovery Channel.

>>4936209

>GRRM doesn't write shit for you

No, you're right, he writes fantasies for the socially stunted manchildren who gobble up that sort of crap like hotcakes.

>>4936216
>artists should make art especially for me
top kek

>>4936209
But ASoIaF has loads of black people in. You really have no idea what you are talking about do you?
>>4936219
>purely for the sake of appealing to a wider demographic.

Oh no! What if people who aren't white males could find characters to relate to?! What a travesty.

The people who make the most fuss about this are always the reactionaries who don't want anyone else into their secret club for white males. Get over it, the skin colour of characters is not an important feature. If you watched any theatre you'd know that blind casting is the norm; it doesn't matter.

As for black people in white settings, it happened, a lot. It just wasn't seen as particularly worth commenting on until the christians started enslaving people during the enlightenment.

>>4936219
You are aware that the GoT world has an equator where people travel to and from even in the course of the stories, right?

>>4936233
The only people adding a "should" are the reactionaries. Everyone else is just saying "let people write and read whatever they want".Diversity is the natural state of things for anyone who isn't terrified of people with different skin colours to themselves, or who speak a different language.

>>4936228
Very mature. You sure proved you were superior to those manchildren who read GRRM.

Argument still works even if you change to something more literary.

Oh no! There's no niggers in Swann's Way. Proust was such a racist.

It's just an artist making a work of art. Who are you to criticize their decisions? Are you like the art police from Plato's Republic?

>Mary Sues exist because children who are told they’re nothing want to be everything.

This person has absolutely no clue why the "Mary Sue" character is looked down on.

No one shaming anyone for creating one. Everyone does it at least once in their life. It's just a fun thing to do.

However, if you're going to sell me a book, you're going to have to convince me how this absolutely perfect character (who is clearly a self-insert) is worth reading about, and why I should care.

What this author doesn't seem to understand is that the reason MSs are so reviled is because there is no dept to them. They are absolutely perfect, so they never experience growth. They don't have any flaws like real humans do because they're perfect, so how can anyone relate? Even superheroes have weaknesses that make us root for them to overcome. With MSs, there's none of that tension. You know EXACTLY how things are going to turn out: fine.

And there's nothing wrong with that if you're just making a fun little story on the side. But you cannot ask people to look at a MS character seriously, because you simply can't. I feel like she intentionally skimmed over the real criticism against those types of characters, and just decided to string together a series of strawman arguments.

>>4936228
so the people who bitch about asoiaf's lack of diversity don't even read the books. figures.

>>4936236
No, I don't read or watch GoT. I'm not talking about that universe anyway, I'm discussing fantasy in a general sense - particularly stories that take place in a conventional style of European/Middle Age setting.

>>4936234
>Oh no! What if people who aren't white males could find characters to relate to?! What a travesty.

It would be a compromise of artistic integrity to change a universe purely to appeal to more readers. The work should follow the whims of the artist solely. If it resonates with you then that's a happy accident as far as I'm concerned. Art does not need to appeal to an audience to have merit. Furthermore, I don't relate to characters on the basis of their skin colour. I relate to them based on action, personality, thought, behaviour, backstory, etc.

>The people who make the most fuss about this are always the reactionaries who don't want anyone else into their secret club for white males.
I'm not a reactionary, or a racist. I don't even visit /pol/. Hitler is not a personal hero of mine.

>Get over it, the skin colour of characters is not an important feature.
We basically agree here. However, my view diverges from yours in that I believe character appearance is often tied to/justified by the setting in which the story takes place, and is dependent on the rules/logic of that universe. If you're breaking those rules purely to appeal to a wider demographic, I believe that this created universe, and the story within it, is weaker as a result.

>>4936243
no
>>4935972

>>4936234
>>4936243
And by reactionaries I assume you mean the SJW crowd? Because most white people I know, myself included, don't care about niggers in their stories. I like Blade. I like Constantine. A good story is a good story. I'm not a racist. It's just the whiny bloggers who complain racism about everything. Either minorities aren't present which is racist or they're a bad stereotype which is racist.


Seems silly to me. There ain't no white people in Tyler Perry movies but I ain't starting a blog about how Tyler Perry is racist. The man can do what he wants.

How come black people get to have their own secret clubs and handshakes but when white people do it it's fucked up? Double standards.

>>4936254

>using the term "nigger"
>claiming not to be a racist

>>4936258
>thinks words are racist
look at this fucking honky

>>4936252
>It would be a compromise of artistic integrity to change a universe purely to appeal to more readers.

This argument is always brought up and it is such bullshit. There is no divine primacy of the artist's whims. Everyone writes for other people just as much as they write for themselves. Again, it is such a tiny difference it shouldn't offend you at all, the fact that it does really says something.
>>4936252
>character appearance is often tied to/justified by the setting in which the story takes place, and is dependent on the rules/logic of that universe. If you're breaking those rules purely to appeal to a wider demographic, I believe that this created universe, and the story within it, is weaker as a result.

This doesn't even make any sense. Aren't we talking about people writing their own novels? Surely they get to decide what the rules and logic are? Basically you have a problem with black people in literature you read. No-one cares, all literature isn't meant to pander exclusively to you. Get over yourself and stop shitting up the board.

>>4936254
>How come black people get to have their own secret clubs and handshakes but when white people do it it's fucked up? Double standards.

Well, gee, I don't know, maybe because racism is vertical and based on who's in a position of systematic power? Just a thought.

>>4936262
It's censorship. Plain and simple.

You do not have a right not to be offended.

I, however, have the right to express myself freely.


It doesn't really matter though because no matter how much SJWs whine about it, it's not going to change much of anything. People will continue to make the things they want to make.

>>4936234
>be dominican
>reading tons of literature, watch hundreds of movies, play stockpiles of games
>characters are predominantly white, most likely because whoever made it were, themselves, white
>relate to many of those characters because they were good people or people with traits I find admirable
>the color of their skin never once crosses my mind

I think that if I character has to have a certain skin color before you can relate to them, it says far more about you than anything else. A good person/character is a good person/character regardless of their skin color, and pisses me off when people try to strong-arm developers or artists or writers into shoehorning an ethnic character just to meet a qutoa. It ends up becoming forced, and I can always see right through that. I know when an ethic character is shoved in for demographic or social justice reasons, and when they were included for genuine purposes. And I'm not the only one. None of my friends, all of whom are children of parent who are immigrants, or are immigrants themselves, give two flying fucks about what skin color or culture the protagonist or supporting characters are. The only things we care about is if they are good characters. If they are, and they have relate-able traits (such as if they are philanthropic, kind, hold good judgement, understand right from wrong, have understandable goals, etc), then they are characters we'd like,

I'm not white, but growing up I thought Solid Snake or Indiana Jones or Nikolayevitch Myshkin were some of the coolest characters around. I wanted to be like them, because I thought that they stood for great things, were great people, and were people with traits anyone would strive to have. Their skin color has nothing to do with anything.

TL;DR:

>>4936264
Whodathunkit? Ethnic and cultural interests control ethnic and cultural regions? How shocking!

What next? Are you going to tell me that Asian government are pro-Asian? Are Muslim governments pro-Muslim?


Why's racism even bad anyway? Everyone on /lit/ is a moral nihlist in the philosophy threads but then they want to throw down absolute statements when it suits their political agendas.

>>4936254

>double standards

Good Lord, you're going to start going on about "reverse racism" soon, aren't you?

>>4936281

>Why's racism even bad anyway?

Why do you even think there's a need to ask this? It's fairly self-explanatory.

I was quite impressed by the first description of The Other Reader in If on a winter's night a traveller. Calvino successfully communicates that she's beautiful to you without actually saying anything specific about how she looks, and quite subtly too (in the context of the text).

>>4936276
>I think that if I character has to have a certain skin color before you can relate to them, it says far more about you than anything else

Nice strawman. That isn't what we are talking about here. The idea is the point that all characters should be white, and all main characters in popular media white male and young. Things are generally not allowed to be representative of reality due to large corporations worried about offending a consumer base they know they can rely on.

>>4936283
Reverse racism is when black people are racist toward black people, right? I see that a lot.

>>4936276
TL; Let creators create what they want. If people like the characters, it isn't about their skin or culture. If the only redeeming value, however, is their skin or culture, people will see right through that, especially the people being pandered to. SJWs are more concerned with how these things sound on paper, than the reality of the situation. I'd actually even argue that most SJWs haven't even spoken to an immigrant or African American, save that one black acquaintance they say is totally their friend.

>>4936293

That's prejudice, not racism. There is a difference.

>>4936289
Not really. I mean evolutionarily speaking, it makes a lot of sense. Universal humanitarianism seems like a spook and a way to cover up your own immorality by hand waving and creating double standards of morality. "Well, I don't have to be nice to him because he's a privileged white male cisgendered shitlord"

>>4936262
>There is no divine primacy of the artist's whims.
This sounds suspiciously close to approval of censorship.

"There is no divine primacy of the artist's whims." I fundamentally disagree with you. The art I respect the most is made by the artist purely for the sake of its own creation - because they love the idea, because they love to make the art. Conversely, I believe that making art purely to appeal to others (or even only portionally to appeal to others) is a compromise of the quality of the art. Value is subjective, and these are the criteria by which I define the art I am most interested in - I believe they are more likely to lead to authentic and honest expression, and ultimately the creation of art which excites and interests me.

>Everyone writes for other people just as much as they write for themselves.
That is incorrect and an example of false consensus. I have written stories purely for myself. Nobody else has ever read them. I did not write them with consideration for any other person besides myself - and I really enjoy them. Perhaps one day someone else will read them? Even if they do, it does not change the fact that I made the art for the its own sake, as an expression of myself - a universe I created within my mind and excited me so much that I felt compelled to bring it to fruition.

>Again, it is such a tiny difference it shouldn't offend you at all, the fact that it does really says something.
Offend is a strong word. I am not in outrage over the idea of compromise within a fantasy universe, it simply strikes me as an action which weakens the art because it is being acted on by forces outside of the artist. The artist does not get to create the art they would rather make as a result, because they must instead compromise.

>the fact that it does really says something.
Stop trying to insinuate that I am a racist. Judge me based on the strength of my argument. To reiterate: I am not a racist.

>This doesn't even make any sense. Aren't we talking about people writing their own novels? Surely they get to decide what the rules and logic are?

Logic and rules have consistency. Breaking this consistency purely to appeal to a demographic weakens the art. I would still argue this point if the author set a story in a desert, all the cast were black and he/she had given lore-based reasons for their complexion, and then a bunch of white folk showed out of the blue, unjustified - coincidentally after it had been reported that the author was under pressure by the publishing company to include a more diverse cast in order to increase profit margins on his later books.

>Basically you have a problem with black people in literature you read.
This attacks on my character are kind of getting a bit ridiculous.

>No-one cares, all literature isn't meant to pander exclusively to you.
I never said that it was meant to - in fact I've been arguing for the artist to express purely what they want to this entire time - without (cont.)

>>4936300
You are right, also empathy is impossible and everyone is out for themselves, all art is a zero-sum game theory situation with everyone trying to fuck everyone else over.

>>4936001
>>4935995
>>4935972
I feel like people go out of there way to think that being white is important to white people. I can safely say that this isn't true in literally every creative field imaginable. People write white characters because they are white. It would be absurd of me to go to Japan and ask for them to write more about me.

Either create content or be satisfied with other people's perspectives. This is entirely different than encouraging minorities to speak out and write, though, which would only enrich writing.

>>4936304
>I mean evolutionarily speaking, it makes a lot of sense

You are not your genes, any more than you are your bladder or your respiratory system.

>>4936310
(cont.) respect to the wishes/preferences of a potential audience or consumer base.

>>4935951
is hating Mary Sues misogynist now?

we have to grin and bear obnoxious, unrealistic garbage characters in fan-fucking-fiction or else be labeled a woman hater?

why do women have to work out their psychological issues in public? Can't you keep your dirty literary laundry in your locked diary under your sock drawer? Why put it on display on the internet at all? Probably because you're an attention whore who seeks coddling and praise.

>>4936301
>racist: a person who believes that a certain human race is superior to any or all others.
Wow. Get back to tumblr. The dictionary appears to disagree with your retarded redefinitions but it's probably just because it's institutionally racist

>>4936293

"Reverse racism" doesn't exist and is what white people whine whenever minorities voice the idea that they have rights.

>>4936315
From a scientific perspective, you are very much your genes. Assuming we define "you" as your brain, then you are indirectly your genes, because the formation of your own individual brain is dependent on your own individual genome.

>>4936310
>I believe that making art purely to appeal to others (or even only portionally to appeal to others) is a compromise of the quality of the art.

You are not an artist and understand zero of the artist endeavour. Stop trying to pontificate on what artists should or should not do; you are clueless.

>>4936318

Someone has clearly never taken a class on race and gender in society. I recommend doing so. It will be highly informative for you, apparently.

>>4935972

Maybe if there were more BLACK AUTHORS who CONTRIBUTED TO LITERATURE she would feel adequately represented in the field.

Then again, maybe authors have to cater to the incredibly small minority of other ethnicities who read their books instead of targeting the audience they intend to.

Perhaps there is a reason why ethnic minorities feel under-represented in almost every aspect of their life. It couldn't be the fact that they are living in a society who's culture was built by the collective conscious of a people to whom they share no genetic or cultural relation?

No, I am just being racist again.

Sorry about slavery, guys.

>>4936292
>white characters should be white
> Things are generally not allowed to be representative of reality due to large corporations worried about offending a consumer base they know they can rely on.

I'm a first generation dominican, and even I am aware that a large majority of the US is white. It's not hard to understand why that second point exists. Regarding artists that create freely from any corporate pressure, how is it so hard to see that when they write they're writing from their own hearts, taking their own experiences and translating it into media? If a black person who grew up in a project wrote a book that paralleled and mirrored all of his experiences, you wouldn't shit on him for not including more, say, Inuit people, would you? Because that's exactly what you're doing now.

Also, on what planet do you live where what I said is a strawman?

>>4936326
I'm surprised they offer that at community college? Or did you get admitted to a real university through affirmative action?

>>4936323
>From a scientific perspective, you are very much your genes.

Read a fucking book. You are also dependant on your parents, does that mean you are your parents? Quit it with the pseudoscience you mouthbreather.

>>4936331
Well you were strawmanning me, was the point I was trying to make.

We pretty much agree anyway. I'm just saying we should hatebomb people for wanting more art with characters they recognise. It is a pretty reasonable request, and, happily, things are turning more and more in line with it everywhere other than the mainstream.

>>4936334
Your gene determine your personality, you fucking mongoloid..

>>4936329
Yeah, seriously. Why are white people in white countries making stories about white people?

Hmm... I wonder.


Why are there so many Indians in Bollywood?

>>4936344
So do your parents, and your environmental factors.

YOU ARE YOUR EARLY UPBRINGING.

>>4936342
*we shouldn't. Whoops.

>>4936349
Naw, bro. You're a faggot cause of genetics. Don't blame your environment -- even though mom yelled at you constantly and dad was never there.

>>4936349
I'm going to start a political group banning people who received a higher than average amount of attention from their mother in the first six months of their lives from normal society. Fucking scum.

>>4936324
>You are not an artist and understand zero of the artist endeavour.

An artist is anyone who creates art. Art is anything which can be viewed as an expression of self. Almost everything is art, if we want to view it as such. There is no bar of entry to enter the "artist's club".

>You understand zero of the artist endeavour. Stop trying to pontificate on what artists should or should not do; you are clueless.

These are just assertions. While made confidently, they do not hold any weight without being backed by explicit reasoning. In fact, you've ignored the vast majority of my post.

If you read one thing, read this: Why are you so reticent to agree with me. Is my reasoning not persuasive? Does it not make logical sense? If it does make sense, why are you not adopting these views? They will enrich your life, help you better understand the world around you. It appears to me that you are emotionally attached to your current beliefs and ideas. Why? By adopting these beliefs you will become stronger as a result.

Numerous times you've implied that I'm racist. I'm not. You won't become some kind of oppressive tyrant if you adopt my viewpoint, I can assure you.

Anyway, this will be my last post. Good luck.

>>4936332

Yet you say you're not racist...

I'm white btw. Whoops!

>>4936360

>Being neglected by your parents affects your sexuality later in life!

What's sad is how many people actually believe this.

>>4936301
Kill yourself

>>4936342
Oh... I wasn't talking about you, specifically. Just people in general who say "WOOOOOOW this person who has no experience with my particular cultural group didn't write about my particular cultural group! WHAT A RACIST."

Talking from the viewpoint of a dominican, honestly, the only people who I would expect to be able tp write an honest, unbiased, and (most importantly) accurate dominican character is an actual Dominican. It seems rather unrealistic to expect Johnny Whitebread from Boise, Idaho to write about a Dominican from town of Sosua in a 100% accurate way. Only someone from Sosua can do that because, well, they live there, and they known exactly what the culture is in a truthful, and unfiltered way.

The strange thing is: say Johnny Whitebread did do that. If even one iota of his story or character has a slightly incorrect depiction, he would be branded a racist trying to inject his colonial views into an unassuming third world village. There's no winning. And I find that incredibly unfair.

>>4936374
It actually does, hugely. All studies point to the first few years being the most important in the formation of personalities in humans (as well as all other animals). Genes play a part too, but the entire scientific community has known that both nature and nurture play a huge part for a long, long time. What's interesting is, more recently, it seems that nurture plays a far bigger part the closer you get to birth.

>>4936374
Everything in your early life affects your later life, that's just causality. Plus imprinting and learned behaviour. But mostly causality.

>>4936369
>>4936374
>responding to obvious troll posts
>>4936383
The funny thing was all the black people saying that movie Precious was racist when it was written by a black person and all the actors in it were black and the director was black too.

>>4936383
Well, that sort of thing does happen quite a lot, and Johnny Whitebread gets away with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that everyone should have to write about all other characters, only that we should be encouraged to _read_ about other people with other experiences. As for where the art comes from, people with the best experience will generally speaking be better at it. The problem lies with publishers.

>>4936395
>The problem lies with publishers.

Then you and I are in agreement. Though, to a small extent, I understand why it may not be done from a business perspective, but let's see what the future holds.

I just want people to stop blaming the little guy, the guy who just wants to make a great work. Every time I hear about a tumblrite saying something like "Shakespeare is a racist and a woman hater! He has no merit whatsoever!" it makes me wonder how long until this sorry planet gets hit with an asteroid.

>>4936423
I wouldn't exactly call Shakespeare "The little guy". Aside from political or religious leaders, he might well be the most adored person in history.

>>4936395

>The problem lies with publishers

Wrong.

We live in an age were publishing information and having it read by others is as simple as posting it on the Internet. To expect others to publish what you wrote despite their own opinion of your work is simply foolish.

Assuming the author needs profit to give them incentive to write, this leads to the witness of their own disregard of what people want to read and what they are willing to pay money for.

In either case, the author is to blame for either his greed or his bigotry and lack of understanding for the opinions of others.

>>4935972

Do you even Inheritance Trilogy?

>>4936281
It's not bad they can do whatever they want. I'm a moral nihilist and people can do what they want.

This thread is pretty entertaining for all its bawwing though. What's ironic to me is that the "anti-racists" are just creating definite boundaries between races while pushing for "equality" (eg BLACKS are underrepresented, as opposed to WHITES, and should be given more power) just like the racists (eg NIGGERS are lazy, so WHITES should be given more power). Is it not just a power play on both sides, with some people fighting for empowerment of ALL MANKIND and others for that of A SPECIFIC RACE?

But I am not solely a man, nor am I solely a specific race; Why would their (man or a specific race's) power concern me, when I only need power for myself?

>>4936510
How are you supposed to support equality without pointing out inequality? Acting like we're all treated the same and just hoping reality will imitate your fantasy doesn't help one bit.

>>4936367
A breath of fresh air

>>4936519
I don't have any fantasy about how the world should be. I see the world as it is and ask myself what I can take from it. I have no desire to change the world.

I don't support equality. I think it is the natural state of things (eg Natural Warre), but we are no longer in a "natural" state. I believe everyone is naturally equal, but social inequality is inherent in society, and again, it is not my burden to relieve society of that.

>>4936519
the ability to pretend that you're "raceless" or that you don't see race is the greatest white privilege of all.

>>4936519
>>4936536 here. I misunderstood your post.

I think social inequality is ultimately rooted in class and race. If they were to want equality they ought to go about it by amassing wealth, not biting the hand that feeds. Racism is institutionally rejected, so don't give me shit about opportunity. It's a matter of will to power. I'm the child of a first generation immigrant who came here with $200 and is now in the upper middle class, so don't tell me to check my privilege either. The privilege was fought for and earned, so that kind of attitude can go fuck itself.

>>4936566
class NOT race.*

>>4936547
>Le privilege check :^)
See my previous post and go kill yourself.

>>4935972
She should read some REH Conan stories.

>>4935972
Complete lie, everyone knows niggers don't read.

>>4936566
>Racism is institutionally rejected
lol, only on paper (and even then, not always)
So let me guess, you haven't even graduated highschool, but your dad made some money so you're allowed to preach about your bootstraps? Please get a job.

>>4936566
>people who didn't do as well as my pop just didn't want to hard enough!

>>4936698
lol I have a job, and I've been through college, and I used to be a bleeding heart liberal just like you!

Love how everyone who disagrees with you is automatically white, NEET, in high school, virgin, and racist.

Keep on keeping on. Go "fix racism". I'll get rich. We'll both die. Hope your piety makes it worthwhile.

>>4936367
Enjoyed reading your posts, thank you.

>>4935951
>Mary Sues exist because children who are told they’re nothing want to be everything.

I always assumed the opposite: that Mary Sues are a creation of the same people told that they're "special snowflakes", that they can be anyone and do anything as long as they put their mind to it, that it's a thing that comes about just as someone (boys can write Mary Sues too, although it's rarer) who realizes those things aren't true but clings to them. Mary Sues are created because parents raise their children to think that they're perfect and unique and base happiness on impossible success in life.

While there may be some fat girl in her room writing about Ebony “Enoby” Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way and just how perfect her life could be if she weren't a nerdy little fat girl, the only reason she's feeling that way isn't because she's told she's nothing - it's because she was told that she could be anything and yet obviously can't.

>>4936806
much more likely

This thread took literally three posts to turn into off-topic shit.

Fuck you /pol/ for spreading your cancer.
Fuck you /lit/ for letting them.

>>4936891
/pol/ really should just be deleted. It's not a containment board, it's an amplifier board. The stuff on other boards hasn't migrated to /pol/, things have started on /pol/ and leaked, like stagnant water, into the rest of the site.

/pol/ needs to be ethnically cleansed.

>>4936905
Yeah. I disagree with /pol/ too, so they ought to be censored so their views don't spread.

>>4936914
>/pol/
>"views"
>/pol/
>not a cesspit of trolls, shills, virgins, racists and general refuse of society

o im laffin

>>4936927
I agree with you. Trolls, shills, virgins, racists, and general recluses of society can't have views on anything. Also, you're right that we can only form an opinion of things when looking at it from a societal standpoint.

I'm wondering how I can do anything about it though. How do you fight these awful subhumans and their rhetoric? How do you manage to further equality while ignoring those heaps of trash? I'd like to help.

>>4936264
>implying blacks don't set limits and restrictions for whites all the time

>>4936326
You just unquestionably accepted what you were told in that class? So much for forming your own opinion.

>>4936423

only 1 part of that quoted statements false and its not the last half

>>4936320
"Reverse Racism"

What the fuck is that even.

Racism no matter what race either party is, is discrimination based upon race. It's not suddenly 'reverse racism' because the victim is not a minority, it's just racism.

also reddit social justice fuckbags n acro/pol/is watchers alike plz fuccin bounce

>>4937107


http://blog.jim.com/culture/racism-is-an-anti-concept.html

>>4936383
This is why you don't play the game to begin with and never, ever listen to anyone who tries to tell you what you're allowed or not allowed to do in your own work.

You tell them to go fuck off and get back to doing whatever you please.

>>4937144
Oh wow this guy is great. He makes some good points. It's refreshing to hear intelligent people who haven't swallowed leftist rhetoric hook line and sinker.

Those comments:
>r u a false flag Jim?
Lol fucking liberals. So sure they're right that anyone that they automatically believe anyone who is intelligent but disagrees with them is trolling. That surely says something about leftist propaganda, no?

>>4936334
But your parents don't literally exist inside of you.
Your genes do.
Current scientific understanding says that you are your cells.
Your cells are made, among other things, of DNA, DNA that can be understood as genes if anyone feels like reading it.
You are, among other thing, your genes.

>>4936156
No its not, pirates violate maritime law. Privateers charted by the state are accepted as legal through international treaties

>>4937408
Exactly. Privateers break pirate law, pirates obey pirate law. Law is relative, particularly in as turbulent a world as that one.

>>4936349
>ultimately your parents and environment are determined by a long chain of the people from which you were birthed
>ultimately your genetics will be shaped by this
>implying you've proved the null hypothesis correlating IQ and genetics

>>4937224
that's an incredibly simplistic statement and there's much, much more to it than just "genes"

>>4936085
Is that really so?
Because I don't read that much but I still like flawed characters better because their conflicts can go deeper; if anything I'd blame MUH ESCAPISM for this Mary Sue shit.

>>4936234
>the skin colour of characters is not an important feature
>that's why we must complain that there aren't enough characters with a skin color we like
logic

>>4936276
Peruvian here.

I always hate the shoehorned latin-american characters the most. I don't even think of giving them a chance as characters once they appear; once I smell the diversity policy behind them, they are dead to me.

>>4936281
>Everyone on /lit/ is a moral nihlist in the philosophy threads but then they want to throw down absolute statements when it suits their political agendas.
They do that because they are moral nihilists.

>>4936326
>class on race and gender in society
>highly informative
ruse clues bmp

>>4936360
>being a faggot is genetic
>as much as it is a choice
Why do you people insist so much on being normal?
You're not.

>>4936905
This. Some of the ridiculous ideas on there get opposition, but I doubt it's from regulars. It's notorious for being full of racist, sexist, whatever-ist idiots. I think some of them just lack basic logic. And I'm a white male (I say that like it backs up my point, but it's the kind of thing which /pol/ users would see as noteworthy to the overall point).

And yeah, being among their kind makes their stupid views seem justified. All it serves to do is encourage these lunatics into actually taking some kind of action for their beliefs, something which would never happen IRL because IRL they would be immediately shot down by anyone with a modicum of common sense.

It's just a shithole and I'd welcome its deletion or censorship.

sage for not /lit/-related and not OP-related.

>>4936914
If you find nothing wrong with /pol/ you are objectively a fucking idiot.

You're probably going to read this and smirk to yourself and think "he just hasn't been red-pilled". No. I've read all the /pol/ literature, I've read all your shitty copypastas, and what I've learned? It is very, very possible to be objectively considered a moron for your viewpoints. There are no intelligent people who actually believe that rubbish. None. At all.

>>4936905
>>4937530
But where would they all go if you delete /pol/?

My gut is telling me /lit/

>>4937565
Split between /lit/ and /int/. /pol/ is necessary as a containment board, and occasionally they bring some things to light. But for the most part they're just as big of an echo chamber as the tumblr kids they mock.

>>4937559
If they are idiots then let them fall under the weakness of their own arguments.
Censoring them only proves that they're strong and smart enough to be a threat.

>>4937565
I'd hope they just disseminate and their idiocy would subside somewhat.

If they ever came here I'd strongly hope we would vehemently revolt against it.

Can you ban people for being illogical, delusional, inflammatory idiots on /lit/? I would seriously hope so. It's not technically trolling, cause, God help us, some of them actually believe the shit they spew, but they look identical.

I'd banhammer them into oblivion if I could.

>>4937559
This, this, this, this. Despite all the diverse, particular minutiae which the idiots on /pol/ pretend to deal in, all the important political discussions they think they hold right in, ultimately the matter is very simple, very black and white. There is no middle ground, no compromise. There can be no compromise with /pol/. They are simply fucking S-T-U-P-I-D and are in dire need of self-awareness and education.

Sorry if that no-compromise stuff waxes too extreme (in the very way I am opposing) but it's how I feel when it comes to pure delusional idiocy like /pol/.

At least /x/ has restrain, awareness of what they delve in. I like /x/ for its creativity, and for not actually telling us that Slenderman and the like are real, because they know that'd be insane. /pol/ thinks Slenderman's about to take all your guns, your wives, your money, your freedoms, and then kill you while you sleep. It's insanity. Apparently it uses to be more like /x/, as in the unspoken satirical sense, but apparently that's turned to real, undeniable idiocy over the years as they've attracted the morons who weren't in on the joke.

I'm not sure who this quotation actually belongs to, whether it be Descartes or Voltaire or someone else, or even if it's a factual historical quotation, but it's still relevant here.

>>4937576
The problem is their weakness is barely exposed on /pol/ because their among their own stupid kind.

None of them have the balls to say what they say online in public because they either have no friends or would just be shot down and promptly spill their spaghetti everywhere.

>>4937642
So, they don't have any importance on the real world?
Why censor them, then?

Tumblr is only worthy of censoring because their shit comes from actual academic circles; /pol/'s just comes from fans of tinfoil hats and that guy with the reptilian books.

>>4937654
I think the recent Isla Vista shootings show how internet communities can breed dangerous individuals. It can justify illogical thinking via argumentum ad populum (albeit only the populum of a particular forum, but when that populum is held as the most intelligent section of society, then that populum is all that is needed).

Honestly, the stuff which is said on /pol/ seems pretty damn similar to the stuff which is said on that guy's forum. I mean, I get it's 4chan, and I shouldn't be on here if I can't handle being offended, but the concentration of hatred on /pol/ is scary. The things they believe seem all too real.

I don't like censorship generally, but I'd censor /pol/ if it means I can sit easy when I go to a cinema in the US, or anywhere with guns readily available to whomever fancies them.

>>4936699

Pretty much. Luck plays a part as well of course, but not as big of one as you seem to think.

Not that guy, and I'm poor as fuck. If I didn't choose to start drinking and smoking, invested more of my time into self improvement and busted my ass, I would be doing pretty well by now. I'm here spending time on 4chan because I'm okay with being poor, and busting ass for several years wouldn't be worth the reward to me.

Racism doesn't keep anyone from success unless they're in some backwater hole. Laziness and improper time management is the real culprit.

>>4937654
Call it an appeal to effect if you like, but haven't you noticed how often arguments on OTHER boards descend into ridiculous political/cultural/religious arguing?

Maybe it's because I spend a lot of time on /co/, where it's especially bad, but it's really, REALLY hard to have a rational argument about anything even tangentially related to social and political issues without it quickly devolving into racially charged, simultaneously radical and reactionary shitflinging that wouldn't be out of place on Stormfront.

/pol/ is a containment board in name only. It doesn't 'contain' anything. It has failed in its purpose, and at the very least it needs to be substantially revised.

>>4937685

If you're seeing it everywhere, maybe it's a common opinion that you just happen to disagree with. That doesn't mean it should be contained.

Everything comes back to politics sooner or later, and 4chan has the collective maturity of a child. It's less that they're fighting about politics and more that they're just generally fighting and politics is just in the ring this time. How many times have you seen two people make huge comment chain in a debate about which kind of situp to do? When was the last time you saw a large thread that *didn't* have shitflinging in it?

>>4936905
lol I'm here to stay, even if /pol/ gets deleted.

>>4937705
There's a clear difference between relevant debate and devolving into race/gender based shitflinging. When I used to browse /fit/ it wasn't uncommon to see a thread originally about fitness get stirred up into a shitflurry from some off-topic comment on race or gender etc.

There's no need to delete /pol/, but I wish they'd keep the /pol/itics on /pol/.

>>4937705
Maybe you're right, but I just feel like it was better before /new/ 2.0 and /pol/ came about. Maybe I'm just being nostalgic, I've been here a good while.

>>4937681
>I think the recent Isla Vista shootings show how internet communities can breed dangerous individuals

Nah, he was on disconnect from any community.

>I don't like censorship generally, but I'd censor /pol/ if it means I can sit easy when I go to a cinema in the US, or anywhere with guns readily available to whomever fancies them.

I'd vote against you. I'm the exact opposite of you. I prefer the delusion of liberty. You prefer the delusion of safety.

>>4937786
I think you need to strike a balance between safety and liberty. I hate to advocate Hobbes, but in a completely free society what is there is stop someone ripping my throat out?

>on disconnect from any community

They detailed how posted on some misogynistic internet forum. In actual society he was ostracised/unpopular/outcast.

>>4935972
By the way, how do they even know what skin color book characters have? I rarely see this description in books. Nobody says "Caracter was white", especially when it's the main character. Maybe everyone of them was black.

>>4937802
read some Locke.

>>4937802
I hate to advocate Hobbes, but in a completely free society what is there is stop someone ripping my throat out?

How does someone rip your throat out on a message board?
If it makes you feel any better, I will vote against throat-ripping being legal. I will even support rules making threatening to rip out throats illegal.

>They detailed how posted on some misogynistic internet forum

He was made fun of there too. A Norway dude said he sounded like a school shooter. Multiple humorous comments regarding his distress at finding out his 4 incher was below average. Even for message boards he was weird.

>>4937837
mebbe jesus wuz nig

>>4936000
The idea behind it is that unhealthy cultural practices are contributed to in part by negative portrayals of women or minorities in such things. And a lack of a portrayal is also a negative portrayal.

Which is true, to an extent. When the tumblrs complain, though, they ignore context. When they complain about the second Indiana Jones movie, they're justified. When they complain about Mario, it just doesn't make any sense.

Of course, it's all largely irrelevant, since there are, indeed, much worse forms of institutionalized prejudice than those in games.

>>4937872
>mebbe

>>4935965
i done already told you fool ass bitch made niggas but yall wasnt hearin me

>>4937574
I don't think you know what tumblr is. Either that or you don't really know what /pol/ is. Possibly the same age range, but a board that is devoted primarily to kids whining about women, blacks, jews, and social liberals is the exact opposite of tumblr culture. /pol/ is Stormfront with pictures. Tumblr is the people you are afraid to say the shit you say on the internet to in person, with pictures.

>>4937959
>tumblr is the people you are afraid to say the shit you say on the internet to in person
This sentence doesn't really make sense but I think I get what you're trying to say and I think it's inaccurate.

No one is afraid to talk back to tumblrites IRL. I know tons of tumblr folk IRL and they are shy and soft-spoken and get their retarded opinions trampled over all the time and do the same thing as /pol/ and vent their rage online cause they're afraid to say it in person.

>>4937981
>and get their retarded opinions trampled over all the time
which is why they go apeshit online btw.
they don't have solid arguments but when you shoot them down they just think you don't understand, as if they're extremely clever.

>>4937685


there wouldent be as much shitflinging if people were not so set against the science of evolution and biodiversity.

>>4936502
>trilogy

>>4937681
Here's where you get to "no turning back" territory when it comes to Freedom of Speech, though.

>I don't like censorship generally, but I'd censor /pol/ if it means I can sit easy when I go to a cinema in the US, or anywhere with guns readily available to whomever fancies them.

>I don't like censorship generally, but I'd censor journalists if it means I don't have to know what shitty things my government is doing

>...I'd censor porn if it means my kids couldn't accidentally find it online

>...I'd censor news articles if it means a certain opinion doesn't get heard

Etc.

Freedom of Speech has both a good and bad side, but you can't keep one and take the other away.

>>4936127
Grow up man.

>>4938554
Slippery slope fallacy.

Now call me a faggot so I can win the argument.

>>4938570
It's not a slippery slope fallacy when it's exactly what he/you are describing.

>/pol/ has opinions I don't like, don't make me feel "safe"
>let's take away their ability to assemble and speak of their opinions simply because they're not agreeable/shitty/unpopular

It'd be a stretch if I said "If you censor this, then America will fall!" or something.

>Mary Sues exist because children who are told they’re nothing want to be everything.

everyone is "told they're nothing". you know what happens when the desire to be everything is left to fester?

elliot rodger happens.

>>4937848
I know Locke, you kinda have to if you know Hobbes, but I don't think Constitutionalism is completely free.

>>4937867
I'm just using that as an example for what can happen due to too much liberty regarding gun ownership. ie: I get shot.

>>4936292
We're already so off topic here.
That guy was right though. You shouldn't need your characters to posses a certain physical trait to relate to them. If you do you're a superficial cry baby. Not to mention an immature pleb.

>>4938582
I wasn't that previous poster, was the one before that. Sorry, I went to eat pizza.

I guess I understand your point about Freedom of Speech, and I agree with it. It just worries me that they can possibly be said on an internet forum where there is no arbiter of common sense to combat them. Whatever this forum may be, could be /pol/ in some cases, could not.

Ofc it doesn't mean they systematically breed nutjobs, but tbh what should is the nutjobs who do exist should not be allowed to go and buy all the guns they like.

>>4938607
jesus I'm typing lazily

*that dumb things can possibly be said-

*what should happen is the nutjobs-

>>4935972
>and and
that's why

>>4938607
>It just worries me that they can possibly be said on an internet forum where there is no arbiter of common sense to combat them. Whatever this forum may be, could be /pol/ in some cases, could not.

Common sense isn't all that common, really. Everybody tends to have their own set of beliefs, morals, and "common sense". The issue comes with trying to squash someone else's simply because it's seen as dangerous.

I don't agree with /pol/, but I agree that they have the right to say what they want, especially on a site like 4chan

>>4938664
Common sense is by definition common. Yes everyone has their own beliefs, but the majority of people have common sense, which defines the limits of what is acceptable. ie: common sense dictates it isn't OK to murder someone.

>>4938583

God damn it, I came to /lit/ because I thought it would be the only 4chan board free from mention of that creep

>>4938367

It started out as a trilogy. Now it's a "saga."

>>4938686
You thought wrong. Just be glad this board isn't defending him.

>>4938681
Sure, but is it a crime to talk about being cool with someone murdering someone? If /pol/ thinks that Dorner was cool, does that make them "dangerous"? Should they be censored simply because it's not right to think that? No.

>>4938694

Yeah, /r9k/ is my home board. I had to flee after they started worshipping the fucker.

>>4938694
Or saying it's a hoax, for that matter.

>>4938698
No, they shouldn't, I said I agree with your freedom of speech views. Albeit I may think some of the things said about this guy are vile.

But, unequivocally, I protest the idea that's it's ok for someone as unstable as he was to purchase guns.

>>4938711
>But, unequivocally, I protest the idea that's it's ok for someone as unstable as he was to purchase guns.
Oh, of course - that's not what I'm arguing.

What I'm arguing is that for, as shitty as /pol/ might be, it's not right to close it down simply because of their opinion and shit. Censorship is never okay

>>4938703

Are they at least discussing the literary merits of his diary?

>>4938711
>I protest the idea that's it's ok for someone as unstable as he was to purchase guns.

The mentally ill are a minority of people who happen to be different from you. By denying them their constitutional right to bear arms, you are denying them a basic right that all human beings in this country (assuming you are American) have, guaranteed by our country's laws. Yet you are stripping away a group of individuals' freedom because they are different from you. How long before that same logic is applied to groups other than the mentally ill?

>>4938719
No idea, but I've heard the diary's pretty poorly written.

>>4938724
Well, I don't agree with the right to bear arms as it exists now, so that kinda answers your post.

Holding a constitution as infallible isn't logical. We might as well make the Bible the constitution again. There needs to be ample reasoning for something to remain in a constitution, and for me, as gun regulations are handled right now, the cons outweigh the pros.

>>4938730

By demeaning the importance of the United States constitution, you are implying that you would gladly remove more than one of the protections it allows. If the second amendment is unimportant, and is one of our basic rights guaranteed by the constitution, then it only follows that the first, fourth, fifth, etc. amendments could just as easily be altered or removed as well, to the detriment of civil liberties. You realize that is the implication of what you are saying?

>>4938734
I disagree that that is the implication of what I'm saying.

As I said, I think there needs to be ample reasoning for something to remain in a constitution.

People used to treat heresy as a crime punishable with death. That was in law. Just because we removed that didn't mean we had to remove ALL the other laws at that time.

You shouldn't treat a constitution as one, indivisible, infallible statement. Nothing is perfect. Acknowledging an imperfection and removing it would not mean that the rest of it becomes null and void, because the rest would still be law. Defending the 2nd amendment in this way skirts around the issue and doesn't actually provide any reasoning as to why the 2nd amendment itself should be in the constitution. We're not talking about the first, fourth, or fifth, we're talking about the 2nd.

>>4936349

you are wrong. Take a psych 101 class. Alot of things are both genetically and environmentally determined, but personality is one of the few things almost entirely dependent on genetics.

>>4936386

>All studies

You are literally talking out of your ass. There are no studies confirming the first few years are vital to your personality. If anything, it is probably the most irrelevant factor, especially when talking about personality. Personality traits such as temperament, introversion/extraversion, and even things like affinity to religiosity are 99% genetic. They prove this by studying adoption twin studies of identical twins separated at birth. Stop making shit up

>>4936317
Just disregard fanfic.

>>4936119
" When the Gray God came up from the Great Slow River, T'anak was only a tiny boy, playing in the dust behind the kraal with the short bones of a pig. He smelled the river-stink from the green slime slipping off the black backs of the fifty water buffalos that escorted the Gray God to the place of honor beneath the big banyan in the center of the thorn hedge. He saw the tracks, deep as the roots of an acacia tree, where the Gray God walked. He followed these to the place where the silent people stood looking upwards at the wise and old and sad face, the long trunk and the broken tusks, the deep scars. he saw the people bow and kiss the dust. Then the mild blue eyes of the gray god saw him, and extended a long arm, bound in iron and gold, and dropped at his feet the red hammer. T'anak does not remember more than that: indeed he barely remembers anything except in dreams, but he has heard the story many times, in songs and poems and seen it drawn upon the white sides of his tent in red letters. and he wears the hammer at his belt."

>>4937981
>No one is afraid to talk back to tumblrites IRL.

I'm sure you would like to believe this, but the fact of the matter is that people who spew the type of inane garbage that's spewed on /pol/ only spew that nonsense in a forum where they are in like company, or in a forum where they are completely anonymous. You don't whine about the Jews controlling the media and global economy in your workplace. You don't degrade "spics and niggers" there either. You only do this online or with what few close friends you have who share that mindset.

In any case, your insistence that /pol/ culture and tumblr culture are similar is demonstrably false. Extreme social liberalism and extreme social conservatism are not even close to the same thing.

>>4939403

>>4937574 here, their online cultures are definitely similar in regards to the echo chamber quality I mentioned; surrounded by likeminded individuals who do nothing but affirm the same core popular beliefs because there is no one to call out their absurdity.

>>4938867
You are the one pulling shit out of your ass.

>>4936258
>Coming to 4chan
>Being a faggot

Words are just words you sensitive bitch

>>4936021
>
Mfw the only character who is not a criminal in the series is that faggot from dorne.

>>4936201

Gaiman already did this.

>.Not sure why he had the darkie eat a man with her vagina but hey not judging.

>>4935972
That one black lady in the last Hobbit movie seemed really out of place.

>>4935951
Jesus Murphy, this thread is why I only read non-fiction.
Enjoy your serious brain disease while I learn pertinent shit.