/lit/ - Literature

>>5791759
get over the fedora meme

god doesn't exist

>catholic intellectually
>hasn't read catechism
m8 you have no idea the backlog you have to be catholic intellectually. RCIA if you want to see if you want to seal the deal, but I'd really recommend just accepting you have no clue about Catholicism and its intricacies remaining a mystery might be the only appealing thing to you.

>>5791759
>but I can't go back to agnosticism either
Why? Death too scary?

>>5791794
>RCIA
I was baptized and confirmed as a Catholic

>I'm pretty much a Catholic

why do you post orthodox saints then

>>5791759
Have you considered Judaism?

read Seven Storey Mountain
find a liberal/lefty Catholic church in your area
talk to a priest or email that you want to come to their services

All worship houses are welcoming.

>>5791795
>death
>scary
>implying eternal life isn't one of the biggest hurdles to my conversion to Christianity
>implying nihilism isn't the easiest worldview to accept because it renders any kind of responsibility meaningless

I love this "you're only religious because you're afraid" shit, religion is precisely what is terrifying, and it's that much more terrifying when you actually start thinking it's true seriously, and I'm at that point now

You have no fucking idea, dude.

Quit being a whining Christian hipster that changes the nuances of his religious system day in and day out. You will always be, and remain, a stupid idiot, regardless of the religion you're affiliated with.

You have to pick: either agnosticism, deism, or atheism

>>5791809
>religion is precisely what is terrifying

Living forever in absolute bliss sure is spooky, yeah.

>>5791809
HAHAHAH Right right right. Sure.
I threw out one idea. The question remains. WHY?

>>5791766

This. You're literally trying to apply 4chan to your life.

>>5791823

Nice 12 year old tier understanding of religion, bro.

>>5791823
>Living forever in absolute bliss

Or living in eternal hell if you don't follow the strict, boring, right- wing values of our religion exactly and precisely until you die

btw atheists are confined into fiery graves in the 6th circle of hell

>>5791799
RCIA is for if you lapsed/excommunicated too, not just new converts. Do you think anyone remembers how to get through penance to receive communion if they've not been in practice in ten years? Plus you have to learn the new prayer wordings unless you lapsed recently.

I'll assume you know to read everything from 5th C. AD until now to be in the intellectual running stakes, but maybe you could pick up at Loyola and try to become a Jesuit if you want a shortcut to intellectual Catholicism? Or go gnostic and full excommunication.

Please answer the simple question, OP >>5791795


>>5791842
You actually believe Saint Dante?

>>5791810
people seriously need to realize that differentiating between atheism and agnosticism is pragmatically nonsensical

>>5791870
Pragmatic for whom?

>>5791810
>>5791870

People seriously need to stop looking at religion as an exclusively doctrinal
construction of statements.

>>5791879
>stop looking at religion as an exclusively doctrinal construction of statements.
Shut up, this is a Catholic thread

>>5791759
Hello OP. I am in similar shoes. Baptised and confirmed Catholic but am very ... uh.. not Catholic in my life style. I'm always ashamed of myself though. So anyway, I started reading the Bible and the CCC.... uhhh... I also then went to reconciliation. "Forgive me father I have sinned... it's been ten years since my last confession." Truth is, I don't think they really want me in the church. I think they think I'm a piece of poopy. Catholic church is pretty exclusive, and very rich. I went to mass, and got dirty looks. So, idk. Gonna go to hell. Shit sux! I am reading Thomas Merton, Spinoza, Hermes Trismegistus, Pascal and this book called The Man Without Qualities.

>>5791888

This is a post-Vatican II world, babby. We're all about praxis now.

>>5791823
Thinking of Christianity as a feel-good belief system for sheep shows that you are far from understanding it and many other religions in general

I used to think Buddhism is the most radical system out there because it advocates for complete death of the ego and preaches that humans are nothing and all our ambitions are vain

But Christianity is several steps ahead of this and it is still the most radical philosophy out there and necessarily counter-cultural. Christianity that is culturally promoted is almost surely a caricature.

Not only does Christianity teach that you have to subdue your ego and your own desires for God, and that most of what you aspired for is wrong, but instead of saying "fuck it" and living an ascetic life free from worry, you are COMMANDED to engage with the world, to love your fellow man and to shun violence to your enemies

The idea of the Incarnation is deeply terrifying in itself. Kierkegaard said something about people being naive and saying that they'd love to live in the time of Christ and follow him - I agree with this fully. Christ is a deeply unsettling figure and our attempts to portray him as a hippy are ridiculous. The thought of staring in the eyes of the Master of the universe, a being I can by definition never comprehend, and a being that became a lowly member of this species because he cares so much about us, is really damn scary to me and I don't assume for a second that if I lived at the time of Christ, I would leave all my worldly matters and decide to follow such a figure.

The depth of God's love is indeed inexpressible, but it's exactly that love that makes him demand incredible things out of you, and trusting you to follow them even though they seem almost impossible.

You can't shun away from the world, that's not Christianity, that's your own ascetic ideal that you put instead of God. Christ criticized this showy and vain understanding of religiosity on multiple accounts

I simply don't see how people find comfort in the idea of God, it terrifies me on a deep level and I feel like I would like nothing else but to run from his sight, to pretend he doesn't exist, to pretend I don't have to do anything in this life and just follow my own goals. But I feel like I'm lying to myself and this is my dillema.

>>5791870
>nonsensical
Don't use words you don't know the application to. The fact that there is no difference (for you) between the two on the pragmatic side of things, doesn't mean that both worldviews are, or should be acknowledged, as equal, in some sense.

They are literally to different things.

>>5791870
I don't see how it's nonsensical - the line between atheism and agnosticism may be near nonexistent regarding how a person lives their daily lives, but it points to fundamentally different worldviews on a deeper level.

An atheist is a positivist, and believes that if a thing cannot be identified and explained, it does not exist. An agnostic may tend towards following a positivist mindset, but for whatever reason isn't willing to declare that non-observed phenomena are absolutely nonexistent.

This usually leads to the agnostic being considered "weak" by both atheists and theists, viewed as a noncommittal and indecisive individual. And in some cases that may be true, but I tend to disagree. There are plenty of agnostics that simply don't trust that they're in a position to make statements on elements of existence which they have no working body of knowledge to even make a statement on.

For example, I'm an agnostic. I have a pre-med undergraduate's understanding of physics, very little experience with religious thought, and rudimentary knowledge of philosophy regarding questions of God and the like. I simply don't have the means to answer any questions on the nature of reality or existence, and don't particularly seek to acquire those means because it doesn't honestly interest me all that much.

>>5791904
This is a posthumane vitae world, despite how hard the Americans are trying to forget communism and charity, don't use the communist tainted words, anon-kun.

>>5791879
>religion [...] an exclusively doctrinal construction of unverifiable, unfalsifiable, self-contradictory, and make-believe statements.

Fixed.

>>5791911
great post

>>5791759
>but I can't go back to agnosticism either
Why

>>5791926

Sorry most of what I know about Catholicism comes from liberationists (whom I think are a fantastic lot).

>>5791911

>Not only does Christianity teach that you have to subdue your ego and your own desires for God, and that most of what you aspired for is wrong, but instead of saying "fuck it" and living an ascetic life free from worry, you are COMMANDED to engage with the world, to love your fellow man and to shun violence to your enemies

Care to elaborate? Also I'm not trying to be hostile, I agree with what you're saying, but you gotta admit, it's a funny thing when every Christian I talk to assures me that most Christians are doing it completely wrong.

>>5791892
If your church doesn't want you, it is a bad church. They should be ashamed. A true Catholic Church is open to anyone willing to have faith and love God. And should be especially interested in people willing to convert and learn the doctrine.

But at the same time, Man is imperfect. Too attached to eathly things like reputation and appearances. A lot of people go too church just to maintain good apparances. Even Fathers don't escape this. Moreover if the Church is in bad condition financially.

>>5791933
Spook riddled is more like it.

Such a cancer.

>>5791922
>An atheist is a positivist, and believes that if a thing cannot be identified and explained, it does not exist.
Atheism is a position in regards, and specific to, a particular deity. There may be atheists non-positivists that believe in different kinds of nonsense.

>>5791955
don't be mean.

>>5791955
>Such a cancer
To be fair, the patient dies either way.

>>5791949
no, it's not their fault. i have demons.

>>5791974
>I have demons.
G'luck proving that to a Monsignor

>>5791911
>The thought of staring in the eyes of the Master of the universe


>WHEN then—if such thy lot—thou seest thy Judge,
>The sight of Him will kindle in thy heart,
>All tender, gracious, reverential thoughts.
>Thou wilt be sick with love, and yearn for Him,
>And feel as though thou couldst but pity Him,
>That one so sweet should e’er have placed Himself
>At disadvantage such, as to be used
>So vilely by a being so vile as thee.
>There is a pleading in His pensive eyes
>Will pierce thee to the quick, and trouble thee.
>And thou wilt hate and loathe thyself; for, though
>Now sinless, thou wilt feel that thou hast sinned,
>As never thou didst feel; and wilt desire
>To slink away, and hide thee from His sight;
>And yet wilt have a longing aye to dwell
>Within the beauty of His countenance.
>And these two pains, so counter and so keen,—
>The longing for Him, when thou seest Him not;
>The shame of self at thought of seeing Him,—
>Will be thy veriest, sharpest purgatory.

>You can't shun away from the world, that's not Christianity, that's your own ascetic ideal that you put instead of God.

that's pretty swedenborgish

>>5791962
I am anti-theist because I love my fellow man.

>>5791969
Like my disregard for Buddhism. We all reach nirvana in the end, no need to sit around pretending we're dead while we're alive.

OP is a fink liar.

how do you be a catholic intellectually and not feel stupid period?

>>5791942
I'm not even a Christian so you don't have to take my word for it at all. But actually reading the Gospels makes it clear for me that Christ is NOT a peaceful figure, some kind of ancient hippy. It has nothing to do with denominational differences, this is plain from the Gospels unless you really do not want to think about any verse that's not compatible with our secular philosophies.

Christ talks about Hell more than anyone else in Scripture. Jews didn't have a Christian view on Hell, that was a Christian idea. People tend to balk at how the Old Testament Yahweh is cruel, but would you rather have a petty cosmic tirant that kills people on this earth for stupid shit, or would you have someone that demands absolute perfection from you, and will condemn you to eternal torment for failing to meet his standards?
See this is just an example of what is actually at stake when you take Christianity seriously. A Zeus figure is a thousand times more comforting than a system where your conduct on this earth determines your INFINITE EXISTENCE.

>>5791984
Do you actually believe Dante was divinely inspired when he wrote all that?

>>5791993

I have no problem as a non-believer criticizing the idea of hell and keeping the based ethics.

>>5791984
I love that poem, it's beautiful.

>>5791990

>Like my disregard for Buddhism. We all reach nirvana in the end, no need to sit around pretending we're dead while we're alive.

I know this isn't a Buddhism thread, but this idea is considered and debated a thousand times in Indian philosophy.

Some believed moksa could be reached in life (Vedanta, Buddhism), some that it could only be reached in death (the Carvaka for example).

Buddhists are divided on how awakening is related to death/life, but most seem to agree that it's some kind of ineffable singularity. It's like a secret rift in reality.

>>5791990
>fink liar.
This from the trip who stole our dead qt gf janitor's physical form for attention and is now dissing its former westernised Buddhism leanings? No; for once, OP is not the greatest faggot in the thread.

>>5791994
And this is why having a trip is embarassing
Saved for the future.

>>5791911
The omnipotence paradox renders all of that twaddle meaningless. To this day, I keep wondering how, in spite of the countless flaws in the system of Christianity, you still cling to it and are not willing to let go of it. All you are doing is putting forth numerous ad hoc adjustments, calling Christianity a "lifestyle" or some irritating shit like that pace Wittgenstein.

This Christian hipsterdom has to end, sooner or later.

>>5791994
butterfly i like u more than shitty kitty

>>5792018
>omnipotence paradox
What? How does that have anything to do with what I said?
Personally I see no necessity for God to be omnipotent in whatever sense for Christianity to stand. It's enough for him to be really, really potent.

>>5792018
>This Christian hipsterdom has to end, sooner or later.
Everybody in the first century after Christ thought that too. The Christians began to have doubts about it all ending soon around the fourth century, but it really picked up again around the first millennium.

>>5792018
>omnipotence paradox
lel it's like you haven't even read the Greek church fathers m8

this shit was solved 1500 years ago
>tfw atheists refuse to read the literature of a philosophy but criticize it anyway

>>5792027
>paradox
>solved

>>5792028
A paradox is an apparent, but ultimately soluble, contradiction.

>>5792034
>>5792027
post solution then if it's so watertight

>>5792024
>How does that have anything to do with what I said?
It has everything to do with what he said. It makes any talk of God meaningless, since the whole system breaks down. All it takes is one little, innocent counterargument; and in the light of it, all you see is hot air in his post.

>It's enough for him to be really, really potent.
Then it's not Christianity, but something else.

>>5792021
Both are retarded.

>>5792028
The "paradox" only exists because of an attempt to describe attributes of God in human terms, something that can never come close to the truth, God's Being is necessarily a mystery.

Questions like "Can God do the logically impossible?" are the consequence of taking these claims beyond what they were intended to do. The reason we can even analogically describe God is due to logic. The question holds as much challenge as "Can God make himself not exist?", they're amusing speculation at best.

>>5792036
>spoon feed me
>spoon feed me mommy
>IF YOU DON'T SPOON FEED ME THE FOOD MUST NOT EXIST
>PROVE THE FOOD EXISTS MOM
>PROVE IT
>WHAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE DUMB THEN
>argument won lel mark another one down for me boys

>>5792036
I was replying to your
>implication
that a paradox is necessarily insoluble.

>>5791993
>demands absolute perfection from you, and will condemn you to eternal torment for failing to meet his standards
you gravely misunderstand gospels. you are already imperfect by birth but you still can be saved by the grace of god if you accept it by your faith and life

also i doubt that part
>Jews didn't have a Christian view on Hell
i.e. they didn't have a *christian* view, but they could have some vastly different regions in their sheol. consider the parable about lazar, jesus speaks there about the jewish believes of that time, not about some recent invention of his

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luka+16:19-31&version=ESV

>>5791994
omg, butterfly how you could take it for dante
completely different style even ignoring no rhyme - longer lines, not in triplets, also a description of a glimpse of the beatific vision used to kindle the soul's personal purgatory... it's from 'the dream of gerontius', written by some catholic cardinal

btw, be careful, or vergil will show you to some next sightseer - now please look at the left, it's butterfly, listen to how she is not very glad :3

>>5792045
>God's Being is necessarily a mystery.
dropped
if any feature of god is so ineffable that somehow i am unable to criticise them yet you are able to tell me god has properties like 'mystery' i wonder whence such knowledge of yours comes? you tell me god is beyond human terms, but how do you know? how do you know god is not a being or pure analytic logic?
>inb4 more appeals to authority
>inb4 referencing scripture

Every attempt at a theodicy is cowardly academic masturbation used to hide dogma from a world where innocents can suffer immensely for absolutely no reason discernable to either humanity or god

>>5792070
this

>>5792063
>Mysteriousness
>Property

You realize that recognizing that God may have properties humans cannot understand is not an assertion that God has a certain property, right?

>>5792063
God is necessarily incomprehensible to us due to him being God. I don't need to quote anyone for this, it should be self-evident.
If he was so clear to understand you'd think we'd get on clear grounds in two thousand years. The fact is, we mostly know what we believe He has revealed to us.

>>5792070
>if the immediate and direct purpose of our life is not suffering then our existence is the most ill-adapted to its purpose in the world

>>5792010
I am the same Epicurean who likes the Taoist notion of balance that you all claimed was a moderator.

>>5792017
Look here >>5791842

>>5792021
:3

>>5792039
Blending in perfectly with /lit/ unfortunately.

>>5792058
No, I mean do you actually believe this >>5791842

>>5792086
>God is necessarily incomprehensible to us due to him being God.
>X doesn't need to be comprehensible because X = X

Why is it that Catholics are so poor at defending their faith intellectually in public?
There are quite a lot Protestant philosophers that are out there engaging in discussions, writing treatises, developing airtight apologetics.

Meanwhile I see so many Catholic priests basically want to ignore their rich history and philosophical tradition. The Thomistic system is precisely a way to express the truth of Christianity in a logical, coherent manner, and nobody fucking talks about it, you have to dig it out for yourself!

I think it's sad. Father Barron is the only well-known defender that I can think of, and his videos are pretty short anyway.

>>5792093
because catholicism as a philosophy is inherently ridiculous
>no guys, the wine literally becomes blood
>guys no i'm serious
>guys where are you going

>>5792092
>incomprehensible thing is not comprehensible

duh. do you really have a problem with this

>>5792090
No, you're feminister trying on a new meat suit. Why are you doing this to our dead gf? Is it because we didn't want to read Wuthering Heights?

>>5792045
>describe attributes of God in human terms
But that's the entire essence of Christianity: describing God by predicating unverifiable properties onto him.

>something that can never come close to the truth, God's Being is necessarily a mystery
/x/-tier gobbledygook.

> the consequence of taking these claims beyond what they were intended to do.
And what they were intended to do?

>The reason we can even analogically describe God is due to logic
For something to be properly analogous, we must entertain both instances of the case, such that the two descriptions are equivalent, in some metaphysical sense. There are only one-sided, anthropomorphic descriptions of God and we cannot verify or entertain the true nature of God, since there is literally no epistemic access to him and his dwelling place, and whether at all he exists in the first place.

>The question holds as much challenge as "Can God make himself not exist?", they're amusing speculation at best.
>Look at me I can easily ascribe arbitrary properties to a deity of my choice
>b-b-but you cannot challenge or doubt the existence of Lord by logical mind-games, boy!!!!!
Fuck off.

>>5792100
you are simply defining god as incomprehensible
doesn't make it so
you don't actually have a clue whether (if god exists) he is comprehensible or not, but claiming he is comprehensible suits your dogma

>>5792070
the wheel of reincarnations is more just than the conception of a single life, nobody suffers for nothing there, but on the other hand it's more cruel because it forces everybody to suffer again and again

>>5792092
We have no empirical observation of God.
We have no immediate experience of God that we know of. We can reason out certain attributes of God, but only if we take certain axioms to be true that in no way have to be true, applied to a being who is supposed to exist unrelated to our limitations of space and time, and conceivably even logic.

God is a mystery to us. Self-evident.

>>5792107
claiming he is incomprehensible*

>>5792108
Are you talking about Irenaeus or Buddhism?

>>5792107
Well, we know that God's consciousness is superior to that of humanity. Therefore, it follows that a superior consciousness may have capabilities, facilities, or properties that are external or foreign to a lower consciousness, due to the nature of it being superior.

>>5792099
>Guys Jesus was just talking metaphorically
>He was lying about Peter too by the way
>Christianity only started in 400 AD when the NT canon was agreed on and then the evil Catholic Church held the bible from the poor people to keep them from the truth

>>5792111
the claim "God is a mystery to us" is obviously true and i agree with you
the claim i disagree with earlier said "God's Being is necessarily a mystery."
which is different to god currently being mysterious to humans in that we don't understand him. this claim suggests that a necessary attribute of god's existence is the presence of mystery, which is a completely unsupported claim
>>5792124
>we know that God's consciousness is superior to that of humanity
how can consciousness be 'superior'? also any argument about god that opens "we know" is inherently false because we know nothing about god, even kierkegaard and augustine would admit that faith is the necessary catalyst for a belief in god, not 'knowing'.

>>5792111
If you're talking about God being a mystery, remember that you're not talking about Christianity.

>>5792128
Yeah, definitely no metaphors in that big ol' book of literal fact

>David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, “As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this must die! He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity.”
>Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man!
>And David replied, "Nope, I've never stolen any lambs, goodbye Nathan"

>>5792134
You cannot fully comprehend a being who exceeds your reasoning capacities in every way.

>>5792118
generally any karma based reincarnation
hinduism, buddhism are the most notable

also reincarnation gives people yet another chance to improve while christianity claims that repentance is impossible after the death

p.s. gnosticism is another pretty good way to explain the evil

>>5792142
>david burned with anger
>literal
>no metaphors in the bible
>david was literally on fire like a dragonball character, such was his rage

>>5792138
>The Trinity is not a mystery
>we fully understand the Trinity
>this is Christianity somehow

>>5792134
I meant "knowing" in the sense that it is established in scripture. There are a few properties that we have seen demonstrated in scripture, such as omniscience and incredible supernatural powers, that would suggest that God has capabilities beyond mankind. I thought that was pretty clear

>>5792143
to 'not fully comprehend' is not synonymous with 'incomprehensible', the former suggests that some attributes/properties/features will never be understood, and the latter implies that not a single attribute/property/feature can be understood

>>5792154
>arguing for god from scripture
we have a winner! the necessary conclusion of all debates on god with a christian!

>>5791810
> christian hipster
So it begins

>>5792157
I was taking theview on knowledge as empirical, immediate knowledge.
We can have no immediate knowledge of God, we can't conclude anything about him on our own with any certainty. God coming down and explaining shit to us doesn't mean we actually understand it, this is literally what faith is.

>>5792161
Wait, what? If we're talking about properties of a certain god, why can't we use the book where that god's properties are laid out explicitly as evidence?

>>5792167
isn't this already the way? "no no no the trend towards atheism these days is too mainstream let me just attach my tips fedora memepics"

>>5791759
"Tips fedora," he said out loud to himself.

>>5792175
Yes, I'm sure people choose to fundamentally transform their way of life, understanding of the world and follow strict religious principles because of internet memes.

It is literally the only reason people choose to convert to a religion. Because it's hip.

You can't actually be this naive.

>>5792173
Wait, what? If we're talking about properties of a certain Who, why can't we use Horton Hears a Who where those Whos' properties are laid out explicitly as evidence?

>>5792184
i know plenty of people who are purposefully contrarian on all sorts of matters

>>5792093
i don't think catholicism is really on that argument and debate game. they are just so fuckin legit... they have the most "based" rituals and imagery. idk man, nothing can compete. they are fundamental to our society. they're "giants, and they ain't gonna move til they provoked" (dr. dre 2001) and they don't waste time with every person who has a problem w/ them because it is "ok" if you aren't catholic... catholicism is a promotion of charity and good will, it has very little to do with proving they are right, cuz they ARE right.

>>5792184
P sure he means on 4chan. In the real world of friends and jobs, religion is a serious life choice. On /lit/ and /pol/, it's another way to feel superior to people.

>>5792173
>Herodotus is the greatest historian!
>"Didn't he say that rats are made out of mud?"
>If you read Herodotus's Histories, you'll find that that is, in fact, true!

>>5792189
Well, I can see where you're coming from, but they should fundamentally be in the business of saving souls as per the Lord's command.

And a lot of souls get saved by philosophy and theology.

>>5791759
>I have no idea how to get started actually living like it,

Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church (http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/))
Read some of the papal encyclicals (Rerum Novarum, Pacem in Terris, Centesimus Annus, Veritatis Splendor, Fides et Ratio, etc...)
Read the documents of Vatican II (Lumen Gentium, Dei Verbum, Gaudium et Spes, Dignitatis Humanae, Nostra Aetate, Sacrosanctum Concilium): http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm
Read some of St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, and church fathers' writings and learn the church's history

*tips mitre*

>>5791759
Get over your reactionary posturing and get with the times.

>that feel when you realize the gaping holes and self-contradiction of Protestantism

I genuinely don't see how people who understand history and read the Christian Fathers remain protestant

>>5792234
>that feel when you realize the gaping holes and self-contradiction of all religious belief
I genuinely don't see how people who understand history and read religious scripture remain religious

>>5791835
If you wear the necklace in pic related at all times you literally can't go to hell.

Catholicism is a beautiful thing.

>>5792240
>get hit by a car
>the necklace flies off from your body
>you die
>go to hell

>>5792249
>not having your scapular sealed in silicone and placed under your skin

lmao

there is some thing so interesting about the imagination. the rituals, the songs, the history fascinates the mind like a well cut jewel. there is a theatre to the catholic church (and some other christian churches, like eastern orthodox) that no other religion really accomplishes. there is an order and a sequence to it that is very beautiful and carries a lot of weight. the incense, the organ playing, the marble floors and vaulted roof, the metal work, the stained glass... it is lovely. i am not speaking of everything here, or trying to offer any answers. but aesthetically, i really admire the catholic church. i only wish it was still in latin... i actually like the old style. i like the history, i like to feel distant from the lord, who sits in cold glory and austere light. i like to feel humble and yet a part of the great body of christ. i went to church recently and i just didn't feel this. the priest was conversational with his sermon, which was short and seemed rushed. all over the church babies were crying, to the point that it felt like a mad house they way they shouted insanely. i wanted to be in a quiet, sacred place. but i found myself in a gilded daycare! blast it all! the church is dying... at least, here.

>>5792185
Underrated post

>>5792258
Try an Orthodox service.

>>5791803
Unless you're one of the chosen people, you're viewed lower than cattle, even if you formally convert.

OP, sincerely pray every day for God to strengthen your faith & direct your ateps according to His will.

>>5791759
>hey_kid,_wanna_see_a_trouser_snake?.jpg

>>5792382
don't forget having to get your dick mutilated

>>5791759
You can't, you're too far gone, and that's good. If you find intellectual stimulation thinking of Catholic theology or whatever, that's fine, but there's no reason that you should want to be fit into some box you don't actually fit into. The Big Ideology form of orthodoxy is dead, and, at any rate, orthodoxy was never really anything but what some person was able to convince a group of people was true.

>>5792102
Wuthering Heights?

She does hide among us, but don't compliment me so

>>5792447
i dunno either, femi, i haven't read the book. i just miss classic butterfly www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW3gKKiTvjs

>>5791795
>thinking true Christians follow Christ because they're scared of death
You'll never find those people bother to engage in these kind of conversations so you can rest safely that you're right.

>>5792476
Thread I started (anonymously) you might like. At least the music links >>>/lgbt/3650897

>>5792018
>omnipotence paradox

What gave you that conclusion?

>>5792063


>being this enlightenment

being/multiverse/om in general is necessarily mysterious at sufficient levels of transcendence. presuming that any given system must be able to answer everything forever is how we got nihilists (and worse, french intellectuals).

>>5792018
The question is akin to asking god to draw a square circle - meaningless in other words

>>5791993
>A Zeus figure is a thousand times more comforting than a system where your conduct on this earth determines your INFINITE EXISTENCE.
Sisyphos

Rene Girard, bro. Read as much as you can on Mimetic Theory and Scapegoating, and have your fucking mind blown out of your skull. Also read some Liberal theology and Liberation Theology. Throughout these things, read the Bible, and just have honest prayers with God.

For example, at 330 AM when I'm on my way into work, I turn off the radio and talk to God. Also, going to mass is very important. It's the shelter from the storm.

>>5792106

>/x/-tier gobbledygook.

You really can pick out the younger posters ITT rather easily.

>>5792093
Germain Grisez and John Finnis are both God-tier Catholic intellectusl

>>5792138
>Christian mysticism doesn't exist because I say so
>apophatic theology isn't a thing

>>5792234

Protestant is much more consistent. That's why it sucks. The mystery is gone.

>>5792480
The question remains. Why?

>>5796326

Existential reasons among others. Jesus was an absurd man.

>>5796340
My why for OP. Why can't he go back to agnosticism?
My attempt to come up with an answer for him has drawn more attention than my actual question.
So it seems OP was just shooting off this post to spark yet another dumb debate.

any Catholics here willing to give their opinion on this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npcXFN4xod8

>>5798801
seems to be a depiction of hell. looks heavily influenced by drug culture of 60s and 70s... the priest has sideburns. lol.

>>5791759
>I don't want to be another nominal Catholic but I can't go back to agnosticism either

You do have more than just those two options you know; that's why we had a Reformation.