/lit/ - Literature

The Odyssey half of it is good, the Iliad half of it is boring. This is because Virgil was Roman and, as one of a bunch of dirty scheming imperialists lionizing the dirtiest schemingist imperialist of the whole lot, could well understand the dirty scheming imperial underpinning of the Odyssey-theme of wandering about the world having adventures in a manner that tends to end with fucking-and-ducking. However Virgil was not Greek and as such, didn't have any real understanding of why people killing each other for fun is cool and awesome, and so Aeneas' wars are tedious and ultimately, viewed in the light of the subsequent history of Rome, much funnier and less heroic than they were probably intended to be.

The gate of ivory bit is a nice touch though.

>>6279404
It's not history. It's not even psuedo history. Virgil wasn't drawing on oral tradition plus sources now perhaps lost to us; he was pulling it out of his ass. It's an Iron Age version of GoT; it's science fiction, it ISN'T REAL.

I'm not saying it's not a well crafted piece of entertainment, but you're comparing apples and Buicks.

>>6279470

>implying the Iliad and Odyssey were history
>implying the Iliad and Odyssey were pseudo-history
>implying the Iliad and Odyssey don't predate all notions of history even as the Greeks conceived of it, let alone how we conceive of it today
>implying Virgil didn't know he was writing fiction
>implying anything is real
>implying

Virgil may have been working in a more Milesian than Greek tradition, seeing as he is asking us to sympathize with Aeneas.

Look into Arctinus of Miletus (works lost) and consider this ordering:
1. Iliad-Aethiopis
2. The Little Iliad
3. the Sack of Troy (Iliou Persis)
4. The Odyssey

>>6279470
Who claimed either of the books to be historical accounts? The Aeneid was created for the sole purpose of giving Rome a heroic founder as well as a mythical backstory for its enmity towards Carthage. Virgil and Homer are poets, not strict historians.

Now Miletus was part of Ionia, and so Arctinus was sympathetic to Greeks, but there is the fact that Aeneas was Dardan. Virgil kind of bridges between Troy in his Aeneid.

>>6279404
That bit with Nisus and Euryalus was ace

>>6279526
/gets historygeek dander up

Homer was the inheritor of an authentic oral tradition based on historical events. Virgil was a bestselling author. It's the difference between Shakespeare's Henry V and Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.

>>6279404
Homeric fanfic.

Dropped.

>>6279470
>he was pulling it out of his ass
If he did that it would make Virgil 10 times the poet Homer was.

Sadly Virgil was merely working in an established tradition. You know, like Homer was. The Aeneas and Roman foundation myth had existed in Italy for centuries before Virgil, but the different Italian peoples had transformed and developed it over time. Virgil was part of a long line of artists who added their own touch to an old legend. But since he was an author rather than an oral poet, I think his original contribution to the Aeneas legend was probably more significant than Homer's to the Troy legend.

The Iliad and Odyssey weren't history, nor does them being history somehow make them better.

GoT is a television series, not literature, and it isn't science fiction.

Your entire post a shit.

>>6279470
>Internet genius discovers and epic poem is not factual, more at 11

>>6279655
>The Iliad and Odyssey weren't history
Doh hoh ho. Tell it to this guy. Better yet, tell it to the crew that unearthed the Mycenaean graves a few years ago at the edge of the silted-up harbor right outside of Hisarlik.

>>6279404
At least as good, for different reasons.

The nationalistic nature of the Aeneid gives it a cultural relevance to the Romans which the Iliad and Odyssey lacked for the Greeks. Homeric elements like the nature of the hero are transformed by Virgil to suit Roman culture ie in exploring the theme of piety, Virgil has Aeneas carry a divine burden resulting in an internal conflict absent in the Homeric heroes.

>>6279682
And nothing in that post has any relevance to what I said.

I have a hard time figuring out why the Cretans and Carians of Miletus shared the same Poetic metre (the Amphimacer, presumably named for Amphimacchus).

I know that the Milesians fled Crete, but it makes you wonder if they developed separate poems in the same metre...?

what's up wiht the ending like the final verse wtf??

Did anyone here take AP Virgil? That was quite an intense class looking back.

>>6279470

9/10, you got some good replies.

>>6279829
Taking it right now

>>6279798
>Cretans and Carians of Miletus shared the same Poetic metre
Where might a non-studentfag learn more?

>>6280039

Introduction to Greek Metre by William S. Annie (PDF).

'Miletos: A History' by Alan Greaves. See Amazon.com.

Also look into early Cretan histories.

>>6280107

*William S. Annis.