/lit/ - Literature

>>6290512

>>6290512
Literally (literally) 90 percent of them. If you work, you do it either out of necessity or because you're an unthinking person.

>>6290525
I would work regardless because the work may linger if I dont aid them
I live to not find personal joy or happiness but to better humans as a whole be it thinking or labor

>>6291238
But you're not a philosopher, judging by your collection of unconscious ideology.

>>6291254
Yea but Vonnegut was full of unconscious ideology and I have heard from people who would call themselves experts on philosophy (probably true depending on how you define both words) say that Vonnegut was a masterful philosopher

>>6291279
Vonnegut wasn't a philospher and those people are full of shit.

>>6291282
Obviously but really the act of being known under a title is as simple as calling yourself such

>>6291288
And gaining acceptance doing so. I've never met anyone who would consider Vonnegut a philosopher though.

>>6291295
It would have been of much joy for me to have only met those which you have because it rather annoys me

>>6290512
Pretty much all of the Greeks. Romans were normies who were all about asking what you can do for your country and shit. Christians were general workfags so the proper NEETism came back with modernity I guess.

Nietzsche was TruNEET, as was Schopenhauer.

The Stoics did not, I repeat DID NOT preach the NEET lifestyle.

>>6292881
This.

Modernity has given rise again to the NEET who lives to learn and engage in discussion; to shitpost with the great shitposters of antiquity across time.

Kafka, although not a philosopher, lived a pretty NEET lifestyle.

“Don't you want to join us?" I was recently asked by an acquaintance when he ran across me alone after midnight in a coffeehouse that was already almost deserted. "No, I don't," I said.”

>>6290525
There's a difference between not working and leeching off your loved ones and families due to your own sloth. There are tons of philosophers who would argue that the latter is wrong.

>>6292897
NEET != socially awkward r9k faggot, NEET just means you aren't employed or working towards it

>>6292897
Kafka had a real job you faggot

>>6292901
>>6292903

NEET doesn't mean you are not employed.

smh newfags

>>6292900

>There's a difference between not working and leeching off your loved ones and families due to your own sloth.

But leeching off of the state/city/plebeians is okay, right?

>>6292907

You're right, it mean's you're Not in Employment, Education or Training.

I thought you faggots were supposed to be clever.

>>6292909
>NEET
>any notion of cleverness

It's not usually a lifestyle by choice. It's what lazy and socially inept people basically force upon themselves.

>>6292908
I don't know, it depends on the philosopher. I'm not trying to make some grand moral argument (though I personally do think NEETfags who leech off the hard work of their parents are terrible people), I'm just saying that probably the majority of philosophers would not think it was just.

>>6292907
Not in Education (with the implication that after your education you will be ready to get a job)
Employment
or Training (for a job)

>>6290525
that's awesome. how concise is that. always gonna have that in the back of my head when i see a sucker going on about the farm he bought

>>6292915
this. NEETs are literally the worst scum of society. ugly, average intelligence, lazy, and socially awkward. they literally have no value or worth as human beings.

This thread caught my eye because I was laid off from my job about twelve hours ago. I hope to spend some of my extra free time doing a lot more reading.

>>6292927

At least they don't actively ruin things, unlike, say, upper-level bankers.

>>6292946
NEETs ruin the status quo of a productive society.

>>6292959

What good is a "productive" society if most of its people are essentially slaves?

>>6292964
NEETs are just as much slaves as anyone else.

>>6292967

How? They don't produce anything. They're not slaves.

>>6292970
They sit at home consuming media and fast food while sponging off their parents.

>>6290512
Epicurus. His philosophy is, essentially, "gather up your friends and live in a garden avoiding pain for the rest of your life".

And there's some spooky atoms here and there, too.

i dont think so

i dont think so

>>6292973

That doesn't make them slaves, though.

You're just trying to associate everything negative that you can with NEETs.

>>6292927
>wanting to have value or worth

literally a tool

>>6292921
>though I personally do think NEETfags who leech off the hard work of their parents are terrible people
People who spawn human beings for their own entertainment and then tell them they have to fend for themselves when they are no longer cute are much worse.

Every parent gets what's coming to him if his offspring leeches of him forever. They should take some responsibility for their actions.

>>6292967
Nah, they're more like pets.

A workfag is like a mule that has to plow the fields for massa all day to get a sack of oats.

A NEET is like the housecat of the massa's wife who gets fed delicious salmon for just doing what he pleases and taking naps in front of the fire.

>>6293136
This, funny how this almost never comes up.

>>6292946
actually they do, by soaking up my tax dollars via autismbux, which could be building hospitals or filling potholes or buying bullets to kill sandniggers

>>6293274
Majority of middle/all of lower working class/chronically ill upper class soaks more tax dollars/euros than can be ripped out of their backs so your criticism can't be directed purely at NEETs.

>>6293136
>>6293148
Has it ever occurred to you that learning how to work and complete projects is an important part of life?

>>6293274
It actually stimulates the economy.

Let's say a man makes 10k a month and has to give none of it away. he will spend a part of it and put the rest in the bank.

Now imagine that man making 10k a month and having to give a third of it away. He will spend part of what remains and put a smaller amount in the bank.

The part that he gave away is distributed among NEETs. They don't have a lot of money, so virtually all of it will be spent instead of saved.

This way, a lot more money will be put directly back into the economy rather than sitting around in a stale puddle of greed. And that's not even mentioning how the existence of welfare and autismbux employs a lot of people.

NEETs buy food and other necessities as well as entertainment. NEETs go to doctors. They go to the dentist. If you ask a dentist if he rather has one rich customer or a rich one and three poor ones he chooses the latter. Rich people can only consume so much. Most of the elementary things they don't consume any more of than a poor person. They just stack money. Meanwhile, sharing his money with NEETs will create jobs and let society prosper.

NEETs are good for the economy.

>>6293300
why should they get money for nothing?
Their only worth to society is consumption? Seems pathetic to me. There is no honor in being NEET and its really too bad people aren't ashamed of it.

>>6293319

I've said it before, but NEETs are nothing more than the loser underclass that has always existed. We used to call them unemployed losers, but now they call themselves NEETs to feel better about their hollow and directionless lives. They're pathetic because they're proud of it.

>>6293319
>why should they get money for nothing?
So that everyone benefits.

>Their only worth to society is consumption? Seems pathetic to me. There is no honor in being NEET and its really too bad people aren't ashamed of it.
It's the price we pay for efficiency. If you want everyone to be actually useful, unmissable, then you'd have to go back to the times of early agriculture or maybe hunter-gatherer existence, where everyone from little children to the elderly had to work. Anything beyond that in terms of technological development and organisation is efficient to the point of some people being able to not be economically productive. In fact, they're not only unable to be productive, they're incapable of being so. There is simply not enough work to go around for everyone to be economically productive in an advanced society.

Note that I say economically. There are plenty of other ways to be valuable to others.You phrase your post as if you think only ones employment provides ones worth to society. That is not the case, of course. I value my grandmother greatly for example, and so do dozens of other people, yet she's an old widow and hasn't worked since her early twenties. She still contributes a lot to society, even if she isn't economically productive. Look at the cat mentioned above. A housecat has no use at all but provide joy to its owners, yet a lot of people love them and value them without them ever expecting the cat to get a job at McDonald's. You can be of worth for simply existing.

>>6293319
>Their only worth to society is consumption?

This is the only worth that most people have anymore. Human labor is less needed than ever (in developed countries) and this trend will only continue. In fact, NEETs do a great economic service: they continue to consume, which is what economics is now based on rather than production, without competing for jobs and driving down wages and labor standards even more.

>>6292927
>ugly, average intelligence, lazy, and socially awkward
based on what?

>>6293281
working and completing tasks to one's satisfaction is more important in my opinion.

>>6293319
what greater honor, honor to the individual itself, is to be had if not freedom from work?

>>6290512
Philosophies aside it would be pretty embarrassing if you become a decent writer and they decide to make a documentary on you. "It is uncertain what Anon did after graduating from high school at the age of 18. Most scholars believe he lived with his parents for the next decade until his marriage to Anne Hathaway. We call these the lost years."

>>6293370
Why?

>>6293370
It's not embarrassing for a writer to live a life of leisurely bohemianism, anon. Cioran always bragged about not having worked for most of his life.

>>6293370
>implying i graduated high school

>>6293370
>being an ugly, average intelligence, lazy, and socially awkward neet, who sponged off his parents for a decade and still managing to marry someone society considers successful and popular.
how is that embarassing for the neet?

I want to live the NEET life but how am I supposed to if I have no one to support me?

hmmm

>>6293425
Appeal to the Sovereign for a small allowance.

>>6293425
Do you have all the necessary knowledge to survive in the woods or in the wild by yourself? If the answer is in the negative, then you must steal, or else you will starve or freeze to death.

>control F
>"Diogenes"
>0 of 0

/lit/, I am disapoint

>>6293463
well i think that is just TOO obvious. we're way ahead of you, newfag.

>>6292927

And what you are gonna do about it? sending them bad thoughts in the night? Bragging how awesome you are?

Tell me, what you are gonna do about it.

>>6293319
When your children are not needed for their human labor, like most people at that time, you will be screaming for a basic income for them, for nothing.

It is going to happen.

>>6293425
NEETbux

>>6293463
Diogenes is more of a popular icon, his adventures don't even make sense. How can you be older than Socrates and meet Alexander the great?

>>6297961
>older than socrates

He was the student of a student of Socrates, according to the stories.

Jesus Christ?

>>6293463
>What I like to drink most is wine that belongs to others.
>If only it were as easy to banish hunger by rubbing the belly as it is to masturbate.
>In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
if he were alive today he would be one of the funny pepe posters on /r9k/

Julius Evola's concept of the differentiated man basically says that you should only work if you need to for practical reasons. And if you do work you should carry it out with utter detachment, there should be no investment of identity or self-worth or higher values to the work you do. The idea of working for some greater good or higher meaning is totally incompatible with the differentiated man who has already accepted that in the Kali Yuga there is no value in engaging with the outer world on anything more than a pragmatic level.

He does however have the caveat that if you find work that is personally fulfilling to you and helps you develop your talents and find your inner nature you can and should seek out such work. But again you should do it for your own sake, you should have no emotional investment about contributing to society or something bigger than your self.

>>6293043
He's projecting, m8.

>I'm not a slave, the NEETs are the slave!

>>6293370
But biographers are unsure what a lot of people throughout history have done with their lives. A lot of Greeks, Romans, Persians, Chinese, and others didn't leave extensive records. Even if we have a source like Plutarch it's only on a certain part of a person's life and not the whole thing.

I'd argue biographers in the future are going to have a pain in the future because the average person leaves so much documented crap (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, Indeed, private photos and writings, etc) behind for people to have to sort through.

You're also forgetting that their are a lot of biographers who will only focus on one aspect of a person's life or a certain time period. We don't need extensive accounts of every little thing people did. There are also some biographers who will construct a conjectural past based on knowledge of where that person lived, what their interests were, and how similar people lived, as well as using clues from their time before or after.

>>6298325
I should have proofread that shit.

*2nd paragraph: drop first use of "in the future"
*3rd paragraph: "there" instead of "their"

Sorry, /lit/

>>6298325
biographers will love that shit, they can cherrypick and get multiple lines of evidence to see for contradictions (i.e. by looking at friends' information).

social media is already being used now, whenever a teenager does something (shoot up a school, become a celebrity) all the news about them is "they said x on facebook" or "they posted x on twitter". Watch black mirror also.

>>6290516
Stirner was a NEET himself but I would hardly say he promote the lifestyle

>>6290512
Ayn Rand

>>6298516
He would tell you that you can do as you please though, so Stirnerism can be a greet defence of NEETism.

>>6293235
>>6293136

>mfw NEETs feel entitled to things
>implying having children is entertainment rather than instinct
>implying supporting someone for 18 years, for free and with no strings attached, entitles you to being anything better than your parents' serf
>Implying they owe you and not the other way around

>>6299457
>instinct as an excuse
That works laziness as well than. Or rape and murder.

Why do you think people owe their parents though? Because life is a precious gift? Kek.

>>6299550
Not him but no,
He's clearly referring to the 18 years of support (be that food/shelter/clothing/emotional)

>>6298522
>implying

Papa Fred

>>6299570
The 18 years of support that they took upon themselves. It's not like the kid asked for it.

You can't just stuff a hundred in a stranger's pocket and say "you owe me now!"

>>6299582
Fredo is really great at blowing wage slaves the fuck out.

>>6299586
>being this ungrateful
>implying not being born is better than being born
>complaining on a khazakstanian needlework board and not committing suicide

>>6299582
God may have died, but he was reborn and named Friedrich Nietzsche.

>>6299550

Laziness is not instinct and reproduction is. All biological life throughout history has done what is required to reproduce and feed itself, and lazy individuals are out-competed. To claim laziness is natural and reproduction not is absurd.

Life IS a precious gift. Even if you disagree, its possession presupposes all objections: simply the act of weighing the choice of life versus non-life requires life.

Further, the ability to argue this with you I believe is an automatic acknowledgment that life is a gift, or at least outweighs being dead. You'd have opted out of life by jumping off a cliff or blowing your brains out if you actually thought life was worse than death

And yeah, you owe your parents. Eighteen years of support is expensive and difficult. Society has agreed that all money spent and all time given is given freely out of an altruistic desire to make a life better, and you need not pay your parents back economically.

Morally however, you ought to respect the efforts required to raise a child and to make efforts to make the most of their support in order to become personally independent. NEETdom spurns well intentioned support and falsely claims unending support is somehow entitled to them rather than is meant only to be a temporary tool to grow and become personally independent. This is a perversion and should be rejected.

>Tl;dr Lose the persecution complex, get off your ass, thank your parents, grow as a person, and move out.

>>6300882
>appeal to nature

>>6291282
I second with ferocity

>>6300920

No claim about nature being good or bad was made, just what is.

>Avoiding answering "Then why aren't you dead yet?"
>mfw

What's your excuse anon? Fear? Natural laziness?

>>6300930
Your first post literally uses instinct as an excuse and is an appeal to nature.

I am not a NEET but I see your retardation.

>Implying it's an excuse rather than a disagreement of intent

Having a child as entertainment implies a wrong is committed, as if the child is some kind of toy. Disagreement on this point indicates I believe this is not the case and feelings of persecution stemming from this are self-delusion.

>>6300945
And what is the point of you dredging up intent if you concede that it has no actual effect on the outcome? Just autistic?

>>6300952

It does though. The entire

>tell them they have to fend for themselves when they are no longer cute

point revolves around the idea that NEETdom is morally justified by people treating children like puppies being kicked to the curb once they're no longer fun, or something.

If there's no negative intent from that, the parents have done no wrong that NEETdom somehow balances out such that they

>get what's coming to them

when the child attempts to pervert the intended up-and-out personal growth relationship.

>>6300963
>Murderer brought to trial
>This man killed women and turned them into lampshades, your honor. He derived pleasure and entertainment from these sick acts.
>Defense steps in
>Your honor, it was..... HIS INSTINCT!
>The jury have reached a decision. There was no negative intent in the action. Not guilty.

>>6300969

If it actually was, the legal system already recognizes that as legitimate defense.

Self defense, the castle doctrine, the entire concept of second degree murder, and the insanity plea all recognize that in many circumstances humans aren't the most rational when it comes to instincts and our instincts can make us do stupid things.

Try again, friend.

>>6300975
Yeah, nah, cunt.

You giving birth is not personal defense. Nor is castle doctrine, second degree murder is still an offense and so is insanity plea, which is not natural.

You just got blown the fuck out. Don't bother responding, I'm done with your double digit meanderings

>>6300979

That doesn't respond to the actual argument that

>humans aren't the most rational when it comes to instincts and our instincts can make us do stupid things

Nothing you said in line two was wrong per se, it's just nonresponsive. I'll concede the insanity plea isn't for natural cases; it's irrelevant to the actual point.

I don't know about NEET because the main character has a job, but Notes From the Underground is a pretty vivid portrait of a 19th century neckbeard. NEETs could probably pick up some tips and tricks, delusion is an important part of maintaining the NEET lifestyle.

>>6300882
>Laziness is not instinct

what is conservation of energy

>>6301015
>delusion is an important part of maintaining the NEET lifestyle.
Why would you say that?

>like doing what I want all day and not going to work
>proceed to do so

100% free of delusion

>>6302185

That all extent energy is only converted to other forms, rather than is spontaneously created?

What's your point?

>>6302254
my point is that laziness has evolutionary advantage

>>6302271

Okay, cool. Make some supporting arguments or explain how that relates to energy.

>>6302272
being lazy requires less energy and therefore less food and water. this can come in handy. the more you need, the easier you fail at getting what you need.

>>6302185
You'll like this: http://www.moussemagazine.it/articolo.mm?id=1071

>>6302314
Looks interesting, thanks friend.

Seriously, why do people have children? What do they answer when you ask them?
I understand the answer "instinct", but I don't believe anyone would admit they got children because it was instinctive.

>>6302289

In modern society there is no shortage of cheap or free food and water. Laziness has no advantage in that regard.

>Different testimonies mention [the living dead] figure, called diferently in each concentration camp: In Auschwitz "musulman" or "muschelman" (man confined inside himself), in Majadanek "gamel" ([I don't know how to translate it] in reference to food being his only interest), in Dachau "Kretiner" (idiot), in Stutthof "krüppel" (cripple, for his lack of movement), in Mauthausen "schwimmer" (staying afloat by playing dead), in Bünchenwald "müde shceichs" (dumbed down or playing dumb), among others. In every case, the figures refer to the same social process: the disablement of any selfdetermination in the being and its remision to the figure of a "living dead", a person that has absolutely lost the capacity of affecting its own life.
How can 4chan create such a similar result to concentration camps?

>>6302350
The author of Pictures for Sad Children had a link to it. It's interestign that it doesn't focus so much in working time but in hoiw we take our free time as some chore to fill with distractions (some times even intellectual ones, but still not the free time the brain needs)

>>6302353
When two people are in a long term relationship in their mind is the view (through society, natural urges) that they should have a baba.

>>6302353

Plenty of reasons people have kids, some better than others.

>To continue the line
>To see if one can raise a patrician
>Because you were a kid once and the concept of little you's is appealing
>For meaning
>To have a new social life
>Long term fear of being alone
>Instinct (as in "I just really, really want a kid")
>By accident as a result of sex for fun compounded with one of the above or a distaste for adoption/abortion

>>6302358
>disabling
I'm catching a ton of mistakes and wrong words, I'm sorry. I should had checked what I was translating. Hope it still makes sense.

>>6292927
lots of NEETs are college dropouts...

>>6302358
>>6302380
In case anyone cares the source is The Genocide As Social Practice by Daniel Feierstein and the common practices he brings sound a bit like things we do here.

>>6299600
>>implying not being born is better than being born
but it is.
life is painful and doesn't make sense.
in my case, being grateful of people that could help themselves in a better way, or that could let me help them without opposing to any progress, but simply don't, is illogical and a waste of time.

>>6299457
>>mfw NEETs feel entitled to things
how come capitalists feel entitled to their profits, and barely anyone is mad at them? hell, people makes it their objective in life.

>>6302379
>>By accident as a result of sex for fun compounded with one of the above or a distaste for adoption/abortion
mfw this accounts for >90% of conceptions

The moment I would make at least several hundred thousand euros and invested them properly I would not consider working a day in my life.

I just don't have the money and welfare is not really a long term thing.

Maybe being a househusband or something would leave me with enough free time to as I please, and if I loved the partner I would be with it would be even better.

>>6303130

But anon, don't you want to watch that pool grow?

>>6303295
what does that mean?

>>6303303
presumably he meant your pool of cash

>>6302525
Because they have to WORK to get profit! Apart from shareholders, of course, but well at least they've worked their way into their profiteering position. Apart those with rich parents of course, but their parents had to work their way to get rich so they could give their kids a better life. Apart from those who had rich parents themselves, of course, but THEIR parents had to work- wait

>>6303303

What happens when your investments sour?

The kind of investment vehicles sufficient to live on with only several hundred thousand invested are incredibly high risk and fairly high maintenance. Further, sitting on your ass and not increasing your investment's value at that income level almost certainly won't beat inflation.

Each year you'll find you're able to do less and less with what you have. It's in your interest to keep some form of income going which will scale over time.

>>6303330
But why is it okay for a founder/CEO to make over 150 times that of his average employee? Why does he think he's entitled to that much more money?

>>6303346
None of the other workers would have a job if it wasn't for the CEO striving to build the company and ensure it stays open.

Why should you eat and earn a wage 150 times greater than that of the average person in Sudan?

>>6303344
>>6303324
I though that long term sage 4-5% annual investments were a thing.

>>6303361
*safe

>>6297961

He wasn't older than Socrates, he was a pupil of Sorates.

>>6303346

Nothing prevents you or any one of those employees from coming up with a hot idea and being a CEO of their own but your time and effort. Capital is out there and is readily available, and good ideas with a will strong enough to put them into action is always worth bank.

As for mechanically why CEOs who manage a company are paid so much, it's because being a CEO fucking sucks. Seriously.

You're a public figure with minimal privacy. The vast majority of your waking hours will be dealing with fuckups, hair-on-fire internal situations, and long term planning.

Politics at that level are extreme, backstabbing is common, and you can never speak your mind or do anything of note because your mistakes represent potentially millions of dollars lost.

You have a target painted on your back for wackos to do things to you and your family. You are likely to receive anonymous abuse and death threats, often for things you didn't do.

You'll be blamed and sued for any mistakes your company makes, or will at least be expected to testify.

You'll be expected to work 80+ hours a week. You'll be expected to enjoy this time, regardless of how bored you are. If the company needs you, you go. School play? Sorry sport, major client has a meeting. Funeral? Gotta skip it, send my regards.

You'll be rich, but at the cost of basically everything else. Most men don't have what it takes to do the job. The few who do make bank because it's fucking hard.

>>6303330

>Because they have to WORK to get profit!

No they don't in some cases. Gamergirls on twitch make 10 times in 5 minutes what chinese factory workers make in 12 hours. Shit, they probably earn more than I do in 8 hours in 5 minutes.

>>6303398
poor, poor CEOs.

they chose that life, they chose to love money.

>>6299600
what are you doing on my lit you oblivious piece of shit

>>6303497
lmao gb2 your liberal college experience you spook

>>6303358
>Why should you eat and earn a wage 150 times greater than that of the average person in Sudan

Well, for one, because the cost of living is higher where I live. Though really I shouldn't eat and earn more than them. However, that doesn't mean I should earn less. It means they should earn more. Neither you nor >>6303398
adequately justified the ridiculous gap between CEOs and regular employees. Of course I agree that CEOs should earn more, just not nearly as much more as they are now (which, according to Forbes, is actually 331 times more than the average employee; 774 times more than a minimum wage earner). Back in 1950, when America had a strong middle class and a man alone could easily take care of his family financially, CEOs made twenty times more than the average worker. That, to me, is more reasonable.

>>6303660
Well >>6303398 said a lot of stupid things, but he essentially illustrated the supply and demand. In the 50s there were more small businesses, today it's all mega conglomerates. So there's much less demand for CEOs, and the people qualified for such a job is less than it appears to be

>>6303398
yaaaawn

being a CEO is easy. probably about 30% of people in any company would perform the duties of a CEO if they wanted to.

*whaaa its so hard*
yeah im sure traveling of a private jet all over the world and doing prestigious things is hard.

they work a lot of raw hours but its more enjoyable work than most people do. its self-actualizing and glamorous.

you can find plenty of studies that show broader economic conditions outside any one person's control influence company performance a LOT more than CEOs' decision making does.

plenty of people would take the job for significantly less money but still a lot more than they already make. plenty of people in any given company would jump to be CEO for say 500k a year in place of the current CEO making 10 million.

but that doesn't happen because the people who control who gets appointed to top executive positions -- institutional investers, board members who are high level executives themselves -- have a vested interest in keeping the pay inflated and not letting everyone know that plenty of people could perform the job just as well for less money.

any idiot with an IQ above 120 could be a CEO. they are paid so much because it is in the interest of the elites to inflate high level executive pay because those are the jobs they have and they want those jobs because they are powerful and prestigious, and they want high pay to come with it.

>>6302358
>How can 4chan create
yeah, let's blame 4chan

>>6302358
>4chan
*capitalism

>>6302358
I don't really think it's valid to parallel that with 4chan. >>6303987 >>6304075

More like blame post-modern society.

>>6302200
I don't believe that most NEETs are happy (unless you consider older retired people NEET since they technically fit the definition), having been one and having known dozens in real life and online, but that doesn't stop them from pretending they are and trying desperately to convince other people that they are totally satisfied with the way they live. Also unless they are independently wealthy they are usually living by someones else's grace which causes tension in their lives that requires serious mental gymnastics to ignore.

>>6304296
I wouldn't argue that most NEETs are happy, like I wouldn't argue that most working people are happy either to be honest. It's hard to be happy as a NEET when most of society tells you that you should be ashamed for it.

However, I am happy being NEET, and I don't experience any tension or cognitive dissonance from being one.

It requires a certain kind of attitude to find happiness in a position that is frowned upon by the majority. I think this antagonism will lessen with time though, seeing as efficiency and automatisation will continue to make work impossible and unneeded for increasingly larger parts of the population in the first world.

Delusion is only an important part of being NEET if you subscribe to a bunch of premises that lead to NEETdom being wrong. If you don't cherish those beliefs, being a NEET is fine.

It is so much fun finding an alternative way of living ... and the rewards are immensely gratifying. Each day one’s life becomes better and better, as one becomes clearer and cleaner ... and more pure. One sets this all in motion by discovering ‘what I am’. One of the many ‘truths’ that one has accepted, with no suspicion, is that ‘we are all emotional beings’. Feelings – emotions and passions – are accepted, without question, as being the touch-stone of actuality. Thus ‘who I really am’ is an emotional ‘being’ ... a psychological or psychic entity residing inside this body. This may be real, but it is not actual. ‘I’, as an emotional ‘being’ am not a fact ... ‘I’ am a belief. A belief is an emotion-backed thought, generally imported from the ‘outside’ world. The people who were already here when one was born impressed upon one that ‘I’ am real ... implying that ‘I’ am actual.

By actual I mean tangible, substantial. ‘I’ am not tangible: ‘I’ am a belief, not a fact. Richard’s Journal, 1997, Article Eleven

>>6304368
I genuinely don't believe you. That "attitude" is exactly the delusion I am talking about, I pretended to have it and I have seen it cultivated in plenty of other people, you see that shit parroted on r9k all the time. I have argued emphatically in the exact way you are right now, and I feel like I did kind of believe it when I said it but deep down I knew I was miserable, and I have had other NEETs confide similar things to me over the years.

I am not saying that it is impossible, but I am saying it takes an incredibly rare type of person to be satisfied living the NEET life, especially while still actively participating in wider civilization. Maybe if you were off in the woods living alone and surviving off the land I would be more inclined to believe you, but then you wouldn't be on 4chan arguing this shit.

I hope you come around before you get to old and flush too much of your life away. The longer you wait the harder it will be. I feel sad for whoever you are taking advantage of to maintain your NEETdom because your "attitude" likely makes it harder on them and you might not even realize it.

>>6304296
>Also unless they are independently wealthy they are usually living by someones else's grace which causes tension in their lives that requires serious mental gymnastics to ignore.
me

I can feel content sometimes, but I can never ignore this tension.

Anyway happy is too ambitious. I'd argue at least half of them are in a way content with their shit. Happiness is moot and arbitrary anyway. It's as long as people enjoy themselves. Not all NEETs wallow in misery or wallow constantly.

>>6304422
what fuckery is this

>>6304452
Not him, but yeah pretty much true. It's like walking in a mall and seeing that people doing things, shopping or whatever or laughing with friends means they are happy, when deep down they could really be not.

It is possible to live in this modern era, freed from out-dated Philosophy and Psychiatry, challenging every Spiritual and Metaphysical tenet and surpassing any of the Altered States Of Consciousness. Discarding all of the beliefs that have held humankind in thralldom for aeons, the way has now been discovered that cuts through the ‘Tried and True’ and enables anyone to be, for the first time, a fully free and autonomous individual living in utter peace and tranquillity, beholden to no-one.

It is now possible for any human being to be totally free from sorrow and malice; the two fundamental elements that prevent one from being happy and harmless. Gone now are the days of having to assiduously practice humility and pacifism in an ultimately futile attempt to become free by transcending the opposites … the traditional and narrow path of denial and fantasy, negation and hallucination. A wide and wondrous path of blitheness and gaiety is now available for one who wishes to live the freedom of the actual.

Actual freedom is a tried and tested way of being happy and harmless in the world as it actually is … stripped of the veneer of reality or Greater Reality that is super-imposed by the psychological or psychic entity within the body. This entity is that sense of identity that inhibits any freedom and sabotages every well-meant endeavour. Thus far one has had only two choices: being ‘normal’ or being spiritual.

Now there is a third alternative … and it supersedes any Mystical Altered State. Richard’s Journal, 1997, Introduction

>>6304496
Just saying it doesn't make it true.

>>6304507
And likewise just disagreeing with it doesn't make it untrue.

I invite anyone to make a critical examination of all the words I advance so as to ascertain if they be intrinsically self-explanatory ... and if they are all seen to be inherently consistent with what is being spoken about, then the facts speak for themselves. Then one will have reason to remember a pure conscious experience (PCE), which all peoples I have spoken to at length have had, and thus verify by direct experience the facticity of what is written (which personal experiencing is the only proof worthy of the name). The PCE occurs globally ... across cultures and down through the ages irregardless of gender, race or age. However, it is usually interpreted according to cultural beliefs – created and reinforced by the persistence of identity – and devolves into an ASC. Then ‘I’ as ego – sublimated and transcended as ‘me’ as soul – manifest as a god or a goddess (‘The Truth’ by any name) and preach unliveable doctrines based upon their belief that they are ‘not the body’.

In areas regarding consciousness, one's own experience is paramount.

>>6304508
I don't have to prove a negative though. I can claim that if I concentrated hard enough I could shoot grapes from my eyeballs, I could probably put together a flowery and convincing argument for it too that would cause a swell of affirmation in all of the people who have been sitting around trying to shoot grapes from their eyes for years. They would go around telling all the naysayers about my treatise to justify their belief and convince them that its possible but in they end they are still going home and sitting around unhappy with no grapes shooting from their eyeballs, reading and rereading what I wrote.

>You know there are gullible people, and most certain you don’t want them in your flanks.

RICHARD: The very nature of actualism – that it is actual – ensures that a gullible person will look elsewhere for what they feel they need.

>>6304452
I'm sorry you don't believe me, friend, because it's really true. The NEET life is the best life imaginable for me. Maybe I am "an incredibility rare type of person", but it really does work for me.

Going innawoods seems shit to me to be honest, and I genuinely enjoy spending some part of my day on 4chan. I also enjoy being part of society. I'm not an angry NEET, I just genuinely enjoy not doing much at all. I'm a lazy man, and I'm at peace with that. I still have friends, I've had girlfriends, I have family that cares about me and that I enjoy the company of. I just don't have a job spending 40 hours a week doing something I don't feel like doing, that's all.

The only thing I'm taking advantage of is tax money, and that isn't too straining on anyone, really. NEETs are cheap.

Do you truly think no one can be happy without having a job? What makes a job so essential to happiness in your eyes?

>>6304550

Having a job is not essential to happiness, but food, water, clothing, shelter, and warmth are essential to being a flesh and blood body capable of happiness.

If you can secure those resources, you are set.

So what's really stopping you from being happy and harmless in the only moment you have of being alive?

>>6304550
>I've had girlfriends,

how?

>>6293300
but as soon as the people who actually produce shit see that they lose incentive.

>>6304550
I said nothing about a job, I don't have one either. jobs are only one of the Es in NEET

I just don't believe that anyone is truly happy simply subsisting, Education and Training are all about reaching new plateaus, I'm not saying you have to conform to society's idea of Employment, Education, and Training or that your version of it has to be part of a civil institution. Saying I am happy being NEET is like saying I am happy stagnating.

And your family, who I'm sure loves you (I had the same thing), will eventually tire of supporting you and you will feel the tension. Am I right in assuming that you probably haven't been living the NEET life long? The bad parts build over time. I know that when I was a NEET it was smooth sailing for a few years from the age of 18-20 and then year by year it got worse until I was nearly suicidal at 24. My story is not unique.

>>6304655
how did you become a normie?

>>6293425
by supporting yourself?

>>6304571
I have secured those. Nothing's stopping me to be honest, I'm quite content.

>>6304582
By being good company, I guess.

>>6304655
>I said nothing about a job, I don't have one either. jobs are only one of the Es in NEET
Those others are referring to formal education and training, so being in University or taking some kind of class. I'm doing neither of those.

>I just don't believe that anyone is truly happy simply subsisting, Education and Training are all about reaching new plateaus, I'm not saying you have to conform to society's idea of Employment, Education, and Training or that your version of it has to be part of a civil institution. Saying I am happy being NEET is like saying I am happy stagnating.
I educate myself as I see fit and I read a lot, but I don't think that makes me any less of a NEET. I'm really sceptical about your notion of stagnation though, as if someone couldn't have a good life without pining for progress. Even if I wouldn't read and learn, I would still be content. Simply subsisting is really great if you set your mind to it and enjoy simple every day pleasures. You don't need to be moving towards some notion of progress and achievement to live a good life. Life is impossible of stagnation, even if you don't do very much at all.

>And your family, who I'm sure loves you (I had the same thing), will eventually tire of supporting you and you will feel the tension. Am I right in assuming that you probably haven't been living the NEET life long? The bad parts build over time. I know that when I was a NEET it was smooth sailing for a few years from the age of 18-20 and then year by year it got worse until I was nearly suicidal at 24. My story is not unique.
My family is not supporting me financially, and I've been living the NEET life since 2011 formally, but I didn't do much in the years before either. I'm 27 years old now. It gets better every year.

>>6304777
>It gets better every year.
If you say it enough times eventually you'll believe it.

If you value freedom over money, ideal is working part-time, from home, doing something you enjoy, choosing your own hours. I have found it is translation for me. Enough to not worry about money and still be able to enjoy some luxuries, while still having mostly free time for your own self and living frugally. There is a middle ground between NEET and wage slave.

>>6293336

You're just jealous and butthurt

>>6304777
>My family is not supporting me financiall

how do you support yourself?

>>6290516
>drawing of a smug dressed jock

every.

time.

Don't we have a profile pic of this faggot? Why the fuck is it always this picture.

>>6304777
Nice god-trips.

I think most people are just jealous of people that enjoy being NEET, in similar vein that people in /r9k/ are jealous of normies. I've found NEETing does make you tend to stagnate more, but it's not much of an issue for me.

It's a matter of life philosophy and world-view. Everyone is heavily conditioned into being a successful and hardworking person right when they step inside a school the first time. We live in a post-modern world where we can pretty much choose our lifestyle freely. I simply choose nihilistic Buddhism-type of philosophy and this sense of ataraxia. Materials, success and wealth is not that important for me.

I don't really consider the "how can you strain and leech off the system" argument a valid one. How can the capitalistic system leech off the third world shithole nations? I've worked short stints and I don't give a fuck if my taxes go into the pocket of some NEET, in fact I feel good about it.

Which brings me to my next point. Working, succesful people are still unhappy. People would complain shit like "damn I wish I won the lottery". They probably feel trapped because they have more financial and occupational stress. My parents are dead, I don't want kids or a relationship really so my lifestyle is much more simplistic.

People chase these moving goalposts of "happiness", which is just another abstraction and a mirage. When you let go of this and accept that good and bad times come in cyclic waves and you just have to roll with it, living becomes much more less dreadful. I could write more but this is already too long.

>>6305471
One thing I forgot to say. About how "only an incredibly rare person can have the NEET lifestyle". This is because of the conditioning I mentioned. Other people feel much more neurotic I've noticed, they get anxious when they are idle. Societal pressure and stigma of an idle person bothers them.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm a pretty introverted, analytical person and feel like the world isn't really designed around us. I don't know if it's a character error, but I've grown to be this person nonetheless. This personality is much more compatible with NEETness rather extroversion and being interested in heavily modifying your immediate surroundings and attaining things other than knowledge.

I hold no resentment or judgment, I'm just an observer. I'm sorry for going on and on this but this is extremely interesting subject. Why does everyone have so heavy tint on their glasses? People always go for heavy simplifications and reductionist statements in very complex problems. Both lifestyles have their pros and cons, this is self-evident.

Setting up NEETs and wageslaves against each other seems counter intuitive. Rather than wanting actual discussion everyone seems to want scapegoats and straw men.

>>6305471
>>6305522
You are making so many assumptions about how other people think, its hard to read without cringing. It takes one to know one, and I am 90% sure you made up the following details:

> I simply choose nihilistic Buddhism-type of philosophy and this sense of ataraxia.
I believe that you want to follow this but the fact that you are posting on 4chan, or even responding to people who are questioning the superiority of this imaginary class of NEET monks that r9k and wizardchan etc claim exists suggests to me that you probably don't really follow this.
>Materials, success and wealth is not that important for me.
I'd believe that they might not be important in the stereotypical sense, but I am sure they are important to you but you, like everyone else, has a personal definition of what those mean words mean to you and you might not use those words but I'll bet you use synonyms.
>My parents are dead
lel, maybe but its awfully convenient to your argument because then people can't claim you are taking advantage of them.
>I don't want a relationship
I would believe that you are scared of relationships and responsibility, as most NEETs seem to be. Many would sooner drop out of society (which isn't really possible because they rely heavily on society for food, shelter, communication, transportation, entertainment, etc) than face the basic shackles of living in groups.
>I hold no resentment or judgment,
Did you read the post you just wrote?

I think you are trying to convince yourself of a lot these things as much as us.

>Why does everyone have so heavy tint on their glasses?
Not like you, right? The impartial, objective observer, you don't let no society influence you! Incorruptible!

>People always go for heavy simplifications and reductionist statements in very complex problems.
Why can't they just be more enlightened like you? You would never do that, not even in the post you just made.

>Rather than wanting actual discussion everyone seems to want scapegoats and straw men.
Kind of like the strawmen you created for working people and other non-NEETmonks?

You seem like a smart person, but you aren't fooling anyone, I know you'll probably dig your heels in and deny everything and I don't blame you, we all have an ego. I feel like I am reading a post I would have made a couple years ago.

>>6298325
>I'd argue biographers in the future are going to have a pain in the future because the average person leaves so much documented crap

If there is another Dante it will eventually become common knowledge that as a young man he had a midget scat porn fetish or that he used to send creepy messages to girls on facebook.

All philosophers were/are shitposters in the Great Conversation.

>>6292946
upper level bankers have sustained more economies than you will ever earn a year

>>6293043
some people are work slaves
others are consumer zombies

>>6293300
that is not stimulating the economy. that is stagnating it. sure neets will be able to live, but they provide 0 return on investment and prevent economies from growing in the long run

>>6305690
the world is either black or its white man, I don't make the rules I just follow them .

>>6293358
you are not describing a neet. you are describing those incapable of working. neet is a voluntary act

>>6290512
We, as a society, should hang all the NEETs. They're parasites that survive only because of the pity of their families.

They are removed from the polis and, as Aristotle pointed out, aren't even men. They are worst than savages, they are savages within the city. The former, at least, never had the chance to reach true eudaimonia, while NEETs had all the chances to do so. They're defective.

A human without a polis is either a beast or a God. Not a chance in hell NEETs are gods, so they are beasts, way less than men. Sub-human trash.

Bertrand Russell, "In Praise of Idleness"

http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html

>>6305774
I want to be NEET, I'm happy as a NEET, and my parents want me to be NEET. They realize that I'm unqualified (and quite frankly, unfit) for any dignified work, and that life shouldn't be wasted on soul-crushing minimum wage drudgery -- the only kind of work I could get. Once they die I will inherit nearly all of their wealth, easily enough for me to live off of for the rest of my life.

>>6305774
agreed. NEETs aren't welcomed in /lit/. they are absolutely disgusting. i'd rather put up with a /pol/tard than have the misfortune of posting in the same thread as a NEET. If Dante was alive today, he would add a tenth circle just for NEETS. God knows the punishment would not be enough though. If I ever run into a NEET in person, as my civic duty, I will personally bestow upon it a legitimate reason that renders it truly incapable of work.

>>6305590
I'm not going to dig my heels in, you give valid arguments.

Materials and wealth are important for day to day survival yes. But when you have shitload of wealth you essentially end up consuming just for the sake of consuming things. "This is important because it costs a lot". Everyone does it, except HC live off the land hermits.

I've been in a relationship and lived in same apartment with other people. It's more straining in different ways than living in solitude. I don't really mind either way, but I'm not actively searching for someone. Maybe you're right and I'm afraid of responsibility and commitment, no matter, everyone has flaws. I'd like to think I'm working on them as time goes by.

Parents are dead was kind of moot point I'll give you that.

I'm trying to say I'm not advocating NEETness or hard worker type. I'm just saying a NEET can be happy just like a worker can be unhappy. I am not trying to portray myself as some enlightened hero. I just want to understand the world around me better. I genuinely don't know which I prefer more, working or NEET. It's a matter of free time vs. wealth.

I might be skewed and flawed beyond my ability to see it, so I'm fine with counter-arguments. Since you seem to be attacking against NEETs, I assume you have some other mode of operation now. Can you give anecdotes or ideas why it's better. Innate sense of achievement, gaining better status and other probably evolutionary stuff are probably key things here. Are you saying we are victims of our evolutionary programming, an organism that doesn't seek to mate and reproduce is ultimately unhappy? What makes it intrinsically better to you? Insight plz.

>>6292897
All I hear about Kafka is him working insurance agencies jobs or something while wishing he was at home writing instead.

>>6292927
most of us don't care about what society thinks of us, its just a spook after all

*sniff* and this, here, is ideology *sniff* and so on.

>>6292897
>>6305877
He died from starvation because of tuberculosis and wrote "the hunger artist" while actively dying. It's pretty fitting, considering his works.

http://www.kafka-online.info/a-hunger-artist.html

>>6305774
>>6305822
How needlessly ruthless if not trollin'. NEETs aren't even criminals.

>Substantiate generic critique of consumer-economy form as implicitly inauthentic
>Use logic of consumer form (NEET) as self-identification
Multiple levels of abstract violence are occuring, and it's disgusting to watch

>>6305916
>>6305829

>>6305829
>Since you seem to be attacking against NEETs
That's not my intent but rereading what I wrote it does come across that way, I guess it was hard for me to come to terms with my own delusion and how my NEETness affected other people in my life, despite the fact that my goal was to just be left alone, so when I see people glorifying the NEET lifestyle I can't help but assume they are doing what I and other have done in order to justify our lack of movement in life that usually stems from loneliness, isolation and depression.

At a certain point any discussion about this will devolve into semantics over the what exactly is meant by "Employment", "Education" and "Training" and while I am aware that the term is often used in an economic context, I think we can agree that it is used in wildly different ways, especially on 4chan where it is kind of a chameleon word but usually just means someone who has withdrawn from society. I don't personally believe that any of those three words necessarily refer specifically to their correlates in civil society, and wouldn't, for instance, consider a self trained programmer or someone who teaches them self a spoken language or a martial art a NEET, even if they do it entirely outside of "official" channels.

You claim to be a nihilist but if I am honest I have yet to meet a nihilist who is REALLY a nihilist, and you claim to love knowledge and so I would assume you take it upon yourself to educate yourself and so I would imagine you see the value in it. A true nihilist wouldn't really, learning would be a pointless rearranging of neurons that, while it might satisfy some banal evolutionary need, is ultimately baseless and as such, pointless. Nihilism is a destructive force if you agree with Nietzsche, and not really compatible with happiness.

>I assume you have some other mode of operation now.
I do, and that is being honest with myself, I actually did want a lot of the things I claimed I didn't, I was just paralyzed by fear, I had had some bad experiences and had been isolated a long time and I had trouble seeing any way out because all I knew how to do was lie and try to think my way out of the misery I denied I felt. It was easier to justify it than change how I acted.

I really don't care if I am just scratching some evolutionary itch by participating in society because I am happier this way. I don't mindlessly seek status or excessive wealth, but I do get to enjoy the benefits of education and self improvement (training) and I take responsibility for myself, which is valuable to me because I couldn't live with the idea that other people had to put up with the bullshit of society so that I could withdraw. Holy men have been trying unsuccessfully for thousands of years to deny their physical needs, and one wonders why you would even bother when fulfilling them feels amazing, and you can still live a life mostly on your own terms, the difference is you aren't fighting the tide, you're moving with it.

>>6305947
Not that guy,

But u r rejecting n misappropriating a nihilist "argument" coz uve not understood it properly. U r still using a dialectic caught between the antipodes of isolation/inclusion on the basis of a human condition which neccessitates contact in modern and "post-modern" forms; your logic ignores a movement the guy ur critiquing is blind to, which is a growth towards transcending distinctly atavistic modes of communicating.

Ur nihilist argument ain't nihilist and relative to "NEETism" (occultism) ur a failure

>>6305977
>>6305947
Not to say I disagree with u, but you're reading the other guys condition as ur own - which is a mistake, and, arguably, characterises the unique contradiction of existential terminology used that suffocates a failure by society to recognise the true form of individuality - which stands at the heart of this discussion.

>>6305947
Excellent post, it doesn't sound that we are very different after all. I was going to say that NEET is a very loaded term. I could categorize myself currently as a NEET, but I'm not averse to work so it's not an philosophical stance to take. It's simply that finding work is so heavily bureaucratic and complex now that it's easy to lose hope even if you exert massive amounts of energy in it (which I don't really).

In a way I'm nihilistic that all the stuff you achieve and build will turn to dust in the end. In 100 years no one will remember you. But from there on I've decided that knowledge is very useful for scratching the itch in my neural network. And compassion, freedom and joy of living that can be gained from Buddhism (and much older belief/non-belief systems before that) is vital for my mental health. Nothing matters so everything is fine.

Fear is debilitating yes. Terrorism, death, depression, disease, aging, rejection, misfortune, meaninglessness. It's a primal emotion to feel fear, and these things feed it.

I might be miserable or depressed at times, but I did feel so even when I was working, It's inevitable, just have to deal with it. Ultimately I'm rather content with my life. I'm glad you're doing better, have a nice day. Even NEETs HAVE to participate in society since they are a part of it, for better or worse.

>>6305977
Your writing style is hilarious

The political only exists in relation to other men, so one practices perfect politics through the apolitical
contemplation of knowledge.

NEETs who aren't Hikkos are just annoying extroverted losers with too much time on their hands.

>>6305912
Do not infantilize NEETs. They are fully aware of what they are doing and should be scorned by society accordingly.

>>6305977
Well I'll let you and your nihilist buddies figure that one out without me. Nihilism seems like a pretty dubious path to any sort of transcendence, I'll let you beta test it for me and see how it goes.

I understand what the word nihilism means as it is generally used and I used it properly for my purpose, I really don't care if you have some arcane definition of your own. Talk to me when we aren't human any more and I'll entertain your version of nihilism.

>>6305998
Bingo

>>6305991
I actually had a sentence where I talked about the other people I have known who identify as NEET I have met over the years either through 4chan, WoW and irl but I was over the letter limit and it seemed like the least relevant part of what I was trying to say. I am not pulling this entirely from my own experience. But I can see how you would get that impression. I guess I also subscribe to the belief that we are more alike than we are different over all and what I was responding to seemed highly idealistic if not unrealistic.

>>6305991
Also I want to say that I don't take issue with someone withdrawing from society, I take issue with the claim that inaction can bring happiness. perhaps, in the future (who knows where transhumanism might take us?), but not now and not for most of humanity so far as I can tell.

>>6306004
Nigga u as insulated and introverted as any NEET.

Difference is u think u got an episteme detracted from ur own ontology. If there was a side to pick for the anonymous browser in both urs n NEETS air castles, it'd be the NEET; though, right now, I prefer ur argument out of personal experience.

Which is an agreeable point, but b careful to not equate the fruit of labour with the shackles of capitalist production

>>6306063
>>6306037

>>6306056
>episteme
Thats a pretty strong word for what I feel about my own belief system. My post was dickish but I guess I have trouble seeing how nihilism can help transcend old ways of communicating, that could be ignorance but I feel like I have been down that path. I am totally open to reading anything you can direct me to on the subject though.

>>6306115
I should add that I am aware that nihilism acts as a destructive force and some say that that destruction creates a void where new things can form, but I guess it seems like conjecture to me and if it isn't true, advocating widespread nihilism could be some scary shit

>write a shitload of borderline hypomanic stuff
>mention nihilism once
>we semantics now

>>6306138
Meta dewd!
>>6306115
It's not that I'm tying transcending a currently essential human characteristic with nihilism, by means of the pathetic excuse of techno fetishism labelled currently as trans-humanism.

Really all that im trying to present is a hypothetical third way that can be drawn from questioning labels such as responsibility by putting them under the spotlight used to explain the black box that is 'freedom', which is bound up in this; all of this done to show that a rejection of both The Deluded Shaman logic of 'NEETS' and 'functioning' societal beings consist in a rejection and opposition towards using a language constructed from an episteme it (the lifestyle of each) has no mastery over. Explaining why that is required something beyond this board's 2000 limit so in all it just looks like i'm either attacking your philosophy, which only you have claims to validity to, or am failing to juggle academic fire.

Check out Karl Marx Early writings rejection of Hegel's state, and then Averni on the logic of Marx.

>>6305351
you're right, the side views are getting old

i tried doing some spooky estimation of what his face looks like, using two mirrored side views, and guess what?

>>6306196
>bato
hahhahahaha

>>6306196
holy shit though. why?

this is beyond crazy

>>6306175
I have to say I am finding what you are saying intriguing, making me think. I will do some reading and see what I can see.

>>6306196
>That image
Oh
Fug

>>6306196
>tfw stirner is bato

i'm still on it lmfao
this is just gold. you are based af anon lol #tyba

I have a proposition for our society:

we should replace our hardest jobs with ROBOTS, automate everything that can be automated, and let technicians to be the ones securing our future.

since there is absolutely no shortage of food and methods to produce it, we should guarantee that people has food. In practice, this would mean giving food for FREE to everyone, and also giving them methods to produce food locally.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=26xpMCXP9bw
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aquaponics

the same applies to living space/shelter, information and communications technology, hot/potable water, education, health and hygiene.

since consumerism has driven, in part, our world to its modern form... consumerism could keep being a thing while, at the same time, we would have our basic needs completely covered. those who want to buy random shit would have to work for that, the rest would simply live their lives.

people would live to learn, to be happy, to help other people, to do whatever they wanted to do.

we should stop profiteering from our own basic needs.

>>6306196
can't unsee

>>6306571
it's called universal basic income basically m8, it's a growing movement

>>6303346
>>6303415
that was ironic you silly anons

>>6303398
oh those poor poor ceos :^(

how rough they have it

A tear for their sacrifices ;_;

>>6306591
but, how about we give them food and knowledge on how to produce instead of money?
if you only knew the kind of people I've known... they would buy some cheap food and spend their money in a new smartphone, only to be left with $0 and asking their friends for money.

>>6306624
>how to produce
their own food and stuff...

>>6298132
Wow, so, what every common man already does minus the voodoo hokum?

>>6306571
only in a perfect world...

>>6306624
And where should we plant those foods, sergeant? You're not asking for everyone to have a land they can even sow on right? You need fucking investment in that too. Granted, you can take a job first to fund that, still it's a little ambitious to expect everyone to be completely self-autonomous, unless you're talking community based or sth.

I guess you can cover the electricity bills with solar panels. But water? And stove(gas)? Personal hygiene shit? Internet too. Shit, you can't not work if you want amenities in life.

I think a lot of food business would suffer a fall from this. Just on rice producers alone. They'll lose a lot of money once everybody produces their own shit. It's not simple.

>>6307033
>And where should we plant those foods, sergeant?
did you even watch the video?

>You're not asking for everyone to have a land they can even sow on right?
of course not. but some powerful organization, say, governments, could provide us the soil, the buildings, whatever. and if the govts. did it, it would be MUCH cheaper than leaving the "project" in private hands.

>unless you're talking community based or sth.
of course it would be community based, at the very minimum.

>I guess you can cover the electricity bills with solar panels. But water? And stove(gas)? Personal hygiene shit? Internet too. Shit, you can't not work if you want amenities in life.
water? there is enough fresh water for everyone, we need to distribute it.
you can heat water and even food with energy from the sun. granted, not everyone can do it, not everywhere, not all the time... but it's possible, and would help reducing the dependence on fuel.

>I think a lot of food business would suffer a fall from this. Just on rice producers alone. They'll lose a lot of money once everybody produces their own shit. It's not simple.
why do they feel entitled to their profits, at the expense of everyone else being dependent on them?

just like everything in politics can be talked, this one should be discussed, too. but... why not? what would be wrong with this?
some people love their jobs, some people love to be of help, share their knowledge and let other people simply live. imagine if EVERYONE of us was a technician (medic, biologist, physicist, IT/programming technician, chemist, ...) with enough knowledge to be part of, and contribute to this you-live-for-free society, working on-demand, doing creative, theoretical or applied work. imagine if there were no bullshit jobs, no paralyzing levels of greed... wouldn't it be awesome?

>>6306624
Too patronising I think.

>>6307176
well, if it was a community thing, the distribution would be really simple, you would just go and take whatever you want/need. so giving money directly to people wouldn't help.

>>6307223
People would take just Iphones and junkfood from the distribution centre. You can lead a pleb to water but you can't make him think.

>>6302379
>creating a new you in hopes it won't make the same mistakes you made

>The man of character lives at home without exercising his mind and performs actions without worry. The notions of right and wrong and the praise and blame of others do not disturb him. When within the four seas all people can enjoy themselves, that is happiness for him. Sorrowful in countenance, he looks like a baby who has lost his mother; appearing stupid, he goes about like one who has lost his way. He has plenty of money to spend, but does not know where it comes from. He drinks and eats just enough and does not know where the food comes from. - Zhuangzi
Seek truNEETdom. TruNEETdom is liberation.

>>6302469
>confusing
Only if you throw silly existential questions at it
>painful
For you

>>6307117
>did you even watch the video?
No, sorry I didn't. I just checked it now, too long to watch for my time.

>why do they feel entitled to their profits, at the expense of everyone else being dependent on them?
Regardless, the govt would also lose a lot of money since they won't get their share of dollars from the companies' taxes.

>of course not. but some powerful organization, say, governments, could provide us the soil, the buildings, whatever. and if the govts. did it, it would be MUCH cheaper than leaving the "project" in private hands.
>water? there is enough fresh water for everyone, we need to distribute it.

Why would they give anything for free?

You're forgetting that the world is simply not as good-hearted as this. People are greedy and corrupt.

>[..] imagine if there were no bullshit jobs, no paralyzing levels of greed... wouldn't it be awesome?
Of course, who wouldn't? Still, this is more of a pipe dream. If it will happen, not at least in our lifetime. Too good to be true.

>>6307770
btw pretty much this

you transfer your soul to that newborn n let the kid grow to be your spiritual successor

>>6308811
thank you for this post Anonymous

>>6302379
>To have a new social life

Having a child is a defence against having a lack of or a unfulfilling social life, not to have a new one.

>>6303330
>>6303398

Americans are too easy to spot in these threads.

>>6309861

They can be both.

If you want to massively expand your social life, a child is one hell of a big way to do it, especially since when you have one you're 25-35, will be out of college, and will likely be well placed and comfortable in your job, reducing the number of new people you meet to a trickle.

Having a kid means you will objectively meet a metric fuckton of new people due to school events, friends the kid forms (since you're gonna end up meeting their parents), and all people associated with sports and activities the child involves himself in. If one is smart and can maintain work-life balance, keeping in contact with previous acquaintances, fuck yes you can have a new social life, even if your current one is good.

In the cases you named, pretty sure
>Long term fear of being alone

caught it anyways.

>Pleb levels in this thread are off the charts
>mfw

>>6303497

And you can too, so get off your high horse.

>>6303660

The wage gap is justified by "it literally doesn't matter that I'm paid more if you could become one as well if you put the work in" and the knowledge that "you, and everyone else here, are not going to put that work in because the effort to get to where I am sounds too hard and running a company IS fucking hard. Therefore since I'm basically irreplaceable, fuck you, pay me."

If you had the job security and the skills, you'd demand the same kind of cash too.

>>6303717
>Ignoring all of the hard parts I described and focusing on the glamor

Self actualization is an interna and personall process. Being a CEO doesn't just happen and takes years of hard work or prep. The idea that there work is somehow more self actualizing is because the pool of labor self selects for people that would see it that way, everyone else burns out.

Whether other factors matter more is irrelevant. Even if a CEO only has like 5% influence on success that can represent tens of millions of dollars. It's a fair trade to flip him a few if he's good.

And no shit, people like high pay. People just hate working to get there. Much easier to shitpost on 4chan than write a business plan, and no one will know you 'failed' doing the former.

>>6306612

I cry evertim.

>>6304777
>My family is not supporting me financially, and I've been living the NEET life since 2011 formally, but I didn't do much in the years before either. I'm 27 years old now. It gets better every year.
how?

did you move to some asian country?

fellow NEETYBIX here

>>6308811
absolutely based

>>6305328
>>6310934
eurowelfare.

>>6311463
french?

i hear they have a guaranteed minimum income over there

i'm moist just thinking about it

>>6311469
I think most european countries do too. Here in Finland it's this convoluted bureaucratic system. You can get student-bux, unemployment-bux, unability to work-bux, rental-bux, generic welfare-bux and such. But they usually cancel each other out and you have to shuffle a lot of papers depending on your bux type and lot of other living situations. Currently I'm on rental-bux (they pay half of my rent) and private unemployment bux so life is grand.

>>6311469
>>6311511
I mean not citizen income of course, but for people without any bux they give bux. Actually foreign immigrants probably have it the easiest.

>come into finland in a truck illegally
>no papers
>no passport
>no bank account
>okay you get 700 EUR per month GG

>>6311517
is that really true? finally, a real excuse to learn a foreign language while being an enabled slob. brb, renouncing my u.s. citizenship.

>>6311540
You probably have to be a black nigger from Somalia to get it. You don't even need to learn the language really, the nignogs don't either while simultaneously poisoning the reputation of the actually hard working black folks. Oh well, politics.

Diogenes

>>6290512
Epicurus. Basically he said you should have lots of friends and party frequently. He frowned upon excesses though, and he was quite frugal, because frugality means more financial independency.

>>6312241
"partying" being sitting around eating bread, drinking water and discussing philosophy

>>6308811
>and ancient NEET justifies his existence and claim it is the best way to be

Lets be honest, if he had been born in the late 1980s or early 90s he would be on r9k right now whining about how girls only go for dudebro jocks.

>>6312539
He was NEET by choice.

>Hearing about the great wisdom of Zhuangzi (莊子), the king of Chu (楚王) wished to make him his advisor and sent two envoys to seek him out. When the envoys found Zhuangzi, he was at the river Pu (濮) fishing.
Zhuangzi and the Sacred TortoiseThe envoys disclosed the royal intention: “His Majesty wishes Zhuangzi to aid him in the governance of his kingdom.”
>However, Zhuangzi did not respond and simply continued fishing. Then slowly, he said, “I have heard that the state of Chu possesses a sacred tortoise shell. The wearer had passed away some three thousand years ago. The king had the sacred shell wrapped in fine cloths, boxed and stored at the imperial ancestral temple. For the tortoise, does it prefer to be dead and have its bones eminently preserved. Or does it prefer to be alive and drag its tail through the mud?”
>The envoys answered, “Alive and dragging its tail through the mud?”
>“Go away then!” Zhuangzi said, “I rather drag my tail through the mud.”

>>6312617

Things always look more sublime in words than in reality

>>6312241
>Epicurus. Basically he said you should have lots of friends and party frequently

>friends
>partying

what a fucking normie

>>6312639
Being NEET is pretty sublime irl.

>>6307468
>People would take just Iphones and junkfood from the distribution centre.
as I said in >>6306571, you'd need to work to satisfy your consumerism...

Which ones preech the Tendie life

>>6309463
>Regardless, the govt would also lose a lot of money since they won't get their share of dollars from the companies' taxes.
[...]
>Why would they give anything for free?
>You're forgetting that the world is simply not as good-hearted as this. People are greedy and corrupt.
it's called "taxes", they already exist, and most people are perfectly fine with them.

>Of course, who wouldn't? Still, this is more of a pipe dream. If it will happen, not at least in our lifetime. Too good to be true.
sure. why don't we start it, then? hell, I guess a book could be enough influence...

>>6312847
Aristippus.

20
Just finished No Longer Human

>>6312853
>sure. why don't we start it, then? hell, I guess a book could be enough influence...

Well, of course sure, why not. You seem to more know about the subject so you could start writing it yourself! Though, if you really want it to be known instead of just accumulating dust in the shelf, you need to pull of some viral shit like KONY 2012. But this time it's actually legit and can actually happen. Create a catchy website and video, make it trending on twitter and boom, the media will follow, instant influence. Fruition is not guaranteed though...

>>6312662
>anons
>dank memes
naw brah

>>6291279
>Vonnegut
>a philosopher
>not shit