/lit/ - Literature

Oh and before some know-nothing pedantic fuckass starts droning on about how Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion let me preemptively say that you are a fucking idiot.

However loosely the Buddha may have played it with doctrine critical aspects of his teachings must still be accepted by faith. Also what kind of secular philosophy addresses soteriological concerns? The Buddha promised salvation to those who knew the truth.

Westernized Buddhism basically allows you to do whatever you want and still be a special snowflake.

Someone say something nasty?
>Its an illusion

Someone more clever than you?
>they're unenlightened

Don't want to work?
>money dosen't bring happiness

>>6317129
Hinduism is more traditional. Zen Buddhism is more philosophical.

>>6317184
>Zen Buddhism is more philosophical.

Uh, Zen is less philosophical. An important aspect of Chan/Zen a is movement away from the more academically-minded Buddhist traditions. Because like, it's dangerous to substitute knowledge for experience, and over-thinking things is a hindrance to realization of the Ultimate Reality.

>>6317129

>Why is Buddhism so popular with trendy white kid pop-orientalist pseudo-religious hipsters but Hinduism isn't?
>It was cool enough for George Harrison wasn't it?

This is a dumb meme and a strawman argument for people who want to feel good about criticizing something. The dumb hipster who pretends they are a buddhist is undoubtedly based on some real people but its not that common in actuality and its a poor representation of most buddhists because most people who genuinely study it and take it seriously dont mouth off about it to everyone so you think the only ones who are buddhists are the ones telling everyone about it which isnt true at all.

Its popular among people in general because it offers alot of really useful and insightful teachings about things.

>>6317169

>However loosely the Buddha may have played it with doctrine critical aspects of his teachings must still be accepted by faith

no thats not true you have no idea what you are talking about, Buddha maintained that everything he taught should be examined critically. Nothing in his teachings are intended to be accepted by faith. If you knew much about Buddhism you would know that its meant to be practiced by people who find what it teaches about life and death to be self-evident rather then relying on faith to believe it to be true, i.e. his teachings are intended to be contemplated and meditated on and to be followed seriously only by those who find that it seems correct to them - this is not "must be accepted by faith"

>>6317171
>Westernized Buddhism basically allows you to do whatever you want and still be a special snowflake.

and making broad generalizations can be used to support any argument about anything.

Nothing you said is really relevant. Either someone understands the teachings pretty well and they dont make dumb mistakes when talking about it or they dont understand it and make dumb mistakes. There are both kinds of these people in the west. Its stupid to claim that everyone or a majority of those following it in the west all do so in a certain way.

Buddhism is less of a clusterfuck. Also, it's not often not theistic.
Come on, that's such an easy question.

>>6317211
Philosophical would be the wrong word, yes. I should say Buddhism in general is more philosophical then more traditional religions, like Hinduism.
Why reject Christianity to replace it with the Asian equivalen.

>why are middle class white kids upset they're ot brahman
Because they deserve suffering in this lifetime.

more like boo-dism cause it's all spooks

>>6317220
>its not that common in actuality and its a poor representation of most buddhists

I don't know in what fairy-tale world you've been living but most of the "Buddhists" I've encountered know fuck all about Buddhism.

>Buddha maintained that everything he taught should be examined critically

Yes, you fucking idiot, I know. With Buddhism faith typically follows reason, not the other way around.

Still you've got your head pretty far up your fucking ass if you expect me to believe that such doctrines as impermanence and codependent origination are self-evident, at least to the unenlightened. When the Buddha said that those doctrines reflected the reality of the world he meant it. You either believe him or you don't.

You're exactly the kind of person I'm talking about. How much of Buddhism have you even studied? Have you read any portion of the Pali canon? Are you familiar with the teachings of Nagarjuna, or any other Buddhist philosopher? Do you know the difference between Theravada and Mahayana?

Or did you read through some new-age book one time and, after briefly skimming Wikipedia, assumed that you knew enough to be a Buddhist, you dumb cunt?

>>6317236
>Buddhism is less of a clusterfuck.

It's easier, yes. But wouldn't the complexity and variety of the Hindu religio-philosophical tradition make it more exotic and thereby more appealing to the superficial type of person who adorns himself with religious sentiments as though they were a fashion accessory?

Because Hinduism is just an elaborate mythology constructed to justify a fucked up abusive caste system? Buddhism originated as a reform movement for Hinduism that rejected all the crazy caste and slavery stuff and would have replaced Hinduism entirely if the Brahmin hadn't managed to convince everyone that Siddhartha Gautama was just an avatar of Vishnu or whatever and that Hinduism was still valid in an effort to keep their power.

Because hinduism is stupid cow worshiping.

>>6317282
Or maybe they aren't as superficial as you seem to think they are. Maybe Buddhism really does have a universal appeal despite it's eastern origins, while Hinduism is just some strange exotic religion.

>>6317171

Someone say something nasty?
>they're going to hell

Someone more clever than you?
>you're still going to heaven and they aren't

Don't want to work?
>The lord will provide and then you go to heaven

>>6317299
STOP OPPRESSING ME ATHEIST SHITLORD

>>6317129
>trendy white kid pop-orientalist pseudo-religious hipsters
Why do you label them like that? What issue do you have with them? There's no reason to look down on people for their beliefs. Just let them be.

>>6317288

Interestingly enough, the cow is about the only animal hindus don't worship, and you're an idiot apparently.

>>6317290
>Or maybe they aren't as superficial as you seem to think they are.

If that were the case they'd do their fucking homework.

For fuck's sake, I once met a self-proclaimed Buddhist who couldn't recount the Four Noble Truths off the top of her head.

These people are making an absolute mockery of Buddhism. And before someone tries to tell me again that Buddhism is not all about study, I know that. I'm familiar with the Buddha's raft analogy. But if you don't know the fundamentals of the Buddha's own teachings, you can't build the fucking raft to begin with.

>>6317314
>There's no reason to look down on people for their beliefs. Just let them be.

They're shallow and they "damage the brand" of Buddhism, so to speak. So fuck them.

>>6317320
I assume he was being facetious.

post ohayos

>>6317328
Not everyone subscribes to THE proper Buddhism. Many have their own and simply title it as Buddhism for conveniences sake or whatever.
There were tons of Buddhist schools and all of them were a different interpretation of the original. So to is the Buddhism of these "trendy white kids".

>>6317328
>They're shallow and they "damage the brand" of Buddhism, so to speak. So fuck them.

You sound like a great buddhist for sure m8

>>6317322
There are self professed "Buddhists" in Thailand who are just as ignorant, just as there are self professed "Christians" in the western world who are actually practicing ancestor and goddess worship.

Why does it matter to you that idiots exist? Why are you so quick to assume anybody who shows interest in something is a poser?

Is this like the fake geek girl thing for religions?

>>6317328
>They're shallow and they "damage the brand" of Buddhism, so to speak
Who is "they"? The spooky boogeymen in your head?

HARE HARE KRISHNA

Why is Christianity so popular with trendy white trash pop-conservative pseudo-religious rednecks but Islam isn't?

>>6317361
>Christianity
>Trendy

It is the most widely mocked religion in the Western World.

Actual Bhuddism is nowhere near what is practiced by trendy white kid pop-orientalist pseudo-religious hipsters. What they are doing is basically just a fad. Im sure some sort of weird Hinduism will become popular eventually. I think part of the reason its so popular is that people pull that "its not a religion" bullshit, and it allows young people to hide behind a belief system that's "not a religion" and thus not what their parents want them to do.

>>6317341
You can't just neatly classify early Buddhism as "THE Buddhism." Early Buddhism doesn't exist anymore because the Buddha and his immediate disciples are not around to preach it.

Also, there's a fairly wide dichotomy between actual Buddhist sects like the Abhidharma schools or Yogacara or whatever and the vague Buddhist "attitude" the trendy kids attempt to practice.

Why do people come on a Japanese Cartoon Imageboard to discuss religion?

Why is Rastafari so popular with trendy black power pop-Afrocentrist pseudo-religious niggers but Vodou isn't?

>>6317373
Yes but it's popular among American conservatives, even though it would make more sense for them to practice Islam.

>>6317322
>I once met a self-proclaimed Buddhist who couldn't recount the Four Noble Truths off the top of her head.

"m-maybe if I act like I don't know what he's talking about this creepy guy will stop talking to me"

>>6317344
>Is this like the fake geek girl thing for religions?

Yes.

>Who is "they"? The spooky boogeymen in your head?

The various idiots I met in High School and College. They're real people, believe me.

>>6317338
Have another Buddhist ohayo.

>>6317322
>>6317391
>Man, this girl I met in the comic book shop couldn't even name all the green lanterns! I hate fake geek girls so much.

>>6317391
Actually I knew this person. We had this discussion during our first period art class together.

where can i get a good collection of these reaction images?>>6317394
>>6317322
>>6317129

>>6317375
> fad
> been popular since the 60s
White people love them some mystical Asians.

>>6317405
That's the gist of it. My indignation doesn't ultimately stem from misogyny however.

>>6317410
They're made on 2chan. You can download them all on /rs/.

Oh wait, not anymore.

>>6317407
So you're in high school then, fuck off pretentious underage b&

>>6317411
Before that it was mystical Negroes and mystical Carribeans

>>6317417
>So you're in high school then

That incident occurred seven years ago, anon.

>>6317412
It's a good thing you are around to quiz everybody and make sure there are no untrue scotsmen hiding among our ranks!

I hear there are some marxists on this board who haven't even read Das Kapital! How dare people be interested in something they haven't read completely or haven't subscribed to fully!

>>6317378
I don't know what you're talking about. This is a Belarussian handball tactics and theory symposium.

>>6317426
So you were in high school then, and you're so autistic that you're still hung up about a high school girl not knowing the four noble truths off her head.

>>6317430
>How dare people be interested in something they haven't read completely or haven't subscribed to fully!

People are welcome to be interested in Buddhism and no one has to subscribe to it fully.

But when they announce themselves to the world as "Buddhists" then they'd better know the fundamentals.

Surely you'd expect any self-professed Catholic to know who Saints Peter and Paul are, right? Or a Muslim to know the differences between Sunni and Shiite? It's the same thing.

>Oh and before some know-nothing pedantic fuckass starts droning on about how Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion let me preemptively say that you are a fucking idiot.

Unlike you of course, who are an expert on REAL Buddhism.

>>6317441
A self-professed Buddhist high-school girl. And I'm not really hung up about it, I actually liked the girl in question, it's just one of many examples of non-Buddhists claiming to be Buddhists that I've encountered.

>>6317129
Because Indians are filthy and smelly.

Castes.

There are much heavier metaphysical commitments at play in Hindu belief.

Buddhism can and has been naturalized much more easily

Also because the Siddhartha Gautama was an Antichrist and so he has all the demons of hell working to entice people into giving in.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven,"

Wow, Lucifer you sound like skinny brown man that I know.

>>6317459
You're acting like you weren't an idiot in high school too. Protip: you were. If you don't realize that then that makes you even more of an idiot now.

Did you also go around quizzing all the Christians on the ten commandments?

>>6317454
I'm do not and have never claimed to be an expert. Not unless I decide to study Buddhism at the post-grad level or become an ordained monk or something, neither of which will probably ever happen.

But I do know the fundamentals, at the very least.

>>6317463
You do realize that Paradise Lost is fiction right?

>>6317453
You are still getting mad about the relative ignorance of schoolchildren and uneducated peasants. (There are plenty of Asians who call themselves Buddhist but don't seem to know much about it)

This attitude is something the Buddha would not have approved of.
You are suffering because of your desire to be surrounded by well informed people. This is nobody's fault but your own.

>>6317472

Yeah, niggler it was a yoke.

>>6317430
>I hear there are some marxists on this board who haven't even read Das Kapital!

absolutely disgusting

too brown. buddhism has been thoroughly whitewashed of its brownness.

>>6317472
>mfw /lit/ is so full of metahipsters with ridiculous ontologies that you took that seriously

>>6317482
More like yellow washed.

>>6317467
I was a stupid teenager. We all were. That's irrelevant to the topic at hand however.

The ten Commandments aren't all that important to Christianity, also. There are no "ten commandments" in the bible, there are the 613 Mitzvot. But I'd certainly expect every self-proclaimed Christian to know the difference between Catholic and Protestant or who wrote the canonical gospels, yes.

And I'm not actually so autistic that I strut around like an insufferable pedant when dealing with people off of the internet, grilling them on their familiarity with their beliefs. This is my spot to vent.

>>6317493
>I'd certainly expect every self-proclaimed Christian to know the difference between Catholic and Protestant or who wrote the canonical gospels, yes.

I got bad news for you son...

>>6317493
>This is my spot to vent.

It's also our spot to mock and argue. Maybe you'd have more luck on a website that allows you to like and upvote comments.

>>6317512
>Maybe you'd have more luck on a website that allows you to like and upvote comments.

You fucking take that back.

The reason I'm here is because we can all vent and mock and argue as much as we like without censoring each other with upboats like the stupid cunts in the normalfag infested pit that is Reddit.

>>6317493
>The ten Commandments aren't all that important to Christianity

Gee now who's the one who doesn't know what they're talking about.

>>6317529
They have no real basis in scripture. Yes they're emphasized but they don't form a core doctrine in any sect, at least not to my knowledge.

According to Jesus there are only two commandments. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

I don't think Paul said that those ten were the only ten commandments of the old Law which had to be retained at any rate. Where did the focus on the "ten commandments" come from anyway?

>>6317543
>They have no real basis in scripture

HOOOOOOOOOOLY SHIT YOU'RE RETARDED

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA AND YOU WERE MAKING FUN OF OTHER PEOPLE FOR BEING IGNORANT

HYPOCRISY AT ITS FINEST

>>6317547
As I've said, there are 613 commandments in the Hebrew Bible.

And please refer me to my post in which I declare myself to be an expert on either Christianity or Judaism. I never said I was an expert on Buddhism either, in fact I said I wasn't. So where's the hypocrisy?

Also, all caps, really? Are you fucking 14? Did you just roll in from Reddit last weekend?

>>6317568
You pretentious and condescending attitude says otherwise.

>>6317568
>there are 613 commandments in the Hebrew Bible.

Plus the ten commandments. It's like literally the most well known part of the Bible and the basis of Judaism and Christianity.

The story is told not once, but twice, detailing God personally giving inscribing the ten commandments on stone tablets for Moses as a universal code of laws that he wanted all men to follow.

>So where's the hypocrisy?

You're making fun of other people for not being able to spout religious trivia when you weren't even aware of the moral basis of two of the world's largest religions. They make Hollywood movies about this shit for fucks sake. Next you're gonna tell me you don't know who Moses is.

>>6317129
Buddhism is far more accessible, universal and is less dependant on cultural baggage.

>>6317591
>Plus the ten commandments.

The ten commandments are part of the 613.

>>6317379
I lol'd and now I feel bad.

Fuck you /pol/.

who /TIBETAN SLEEP YOGA/ here

>>6317601
The ten commandments are the only ones personally relayed to mankind by God though, and thus they're the basis for the rest.

>>6317626
The 603 others were relayed to Moses also, just not via inscriptions on stone tablets. It was still an act of prophecy which gave the Jews the full Law.

>>6317591
>the basis of Judaism and Christianity.

The Hebrew Bible and with it the Law are absolutely the basis of Judaism but neither are the basis of Christianity. Not even the New Testament is the basis of Christianity because Christians were just fine without an established canon for almost 300 years. Clearly you're the one who needs to learn more about Judaism and Christianity here.

>>6317591
>>6317568
I get the feeling you don't have much contact with actual Christians.
Was a Christian (unfortunately) most of my life never heard of 613 whatevers.
As far as actual teachings, 10 commandments are central in modern Christianity and historically. You can argue they should be but they are and to say otherwise is just plain stupid.

>>6317463
this. india has a shitty imagine in the west
> smell like curry
> gang-rape helpless women
> give bad tech support

whereas chinese are ching chong wise kung fu people who be like water, friend

>>6317129
>Hinduism isn't

Shiva smokes weed dude.

>>6317677
There's nothing unfortunate about being a Christian. Perhaps you should reexamine Christine teachings in the light of a greater contextual understanding, because clearly your religious education was deficient.

All religion has to be worked at, and much of that work is study.

Also when is ZUN going to make a Jesuit Touhou. Then his religious meta-narrative will be complete.

>>6317690
well put

>evil white people
>>>/reddit/

>>6317712
Hahahahaha
You dont escape the cave and then go back to reexamine the shadows.

>>6317751
I'm pretty white dude.

Buddhism is not an ethnic religion and I never meant to imply that it was.

I guess Hinduism is more of an ethnic religion though. Still that's never made the animistic traditions of native North Americans less popular with the superficial types.

>>6317768
Don't be so euphoric, anon.

>>6317768
There is literally nothing wrong with caves.

>>6317782
Caves are pretty great.

Any cave worth spelunking in is either going to be pretty out of the way or will involve lots of crawling, however.

>>6317794
I agree.

Also,
>spelunking
I love that word.

I think Buddhist monks and the idea of enlightenment are a lot more attractive to white people than Sadhus and moksha. It's kind of ironic how Buddhism comes as a reaction to Hinduism, yet Buddhism ends up being more popular in other places without Hinduism.

Why? Good question, I don't really think I can answer it too well. I guess a lot of people are attracted to the idea of enlightenment and turned off by their experience with theistic religions.

>>6317249
Not that guy, but - holy shit man, relax. Feel free to share and add information, but being a cunt won't do anything other than make you feel like a tough guy. Is that all what you really want? It's petty.

>>6317712
>There's nothing unfortunate about being a Christian

Depending on the denomination there can be plenty of things wrong with that.

>>6317129
It is so much easier to get into Buddhism. You can find so many simply written book for suburban middle-aged mothers about Buddhism and 'affirming your inner self' and all that stuff. From my experiences, these trendy kids don't follow Asiatic Buddhism. They follow Westernised Buddhism which has 'The Secret' and 'the power of positive belief' and 'we are all universal energy' nonsense.
Hinduism doesn't appeal to suburban middle-aged mothers because to them India is just a less aesthetically pleasing country that China (although ironically Buddhism came from India). They equate Hinduism with India, so if they don't like the look of India, they don't like Hinduism. This is in contrast to the imagined temples and monks and peace and love and harmony of SE Asia, hence they like Buddhism, because the scenery is nicer. But I digress, since suburban middle-aged mothers don't like the look of India therefore Hinduism, there is no simply written literature about it, and you'd have to find a big dry text in order to study it, and suburban middle-aged mothers are just too lazy and/or stupid for that.
Strangely enough, replace 'suburban middle-aged mother' with 'trendy white kid pop-orientalist pseudo-religious hipster' and the result will be the same.

>>6317861
>Depending on the denomination there can be plenty of things wrong with that.

Well Evangelicalism can be a bit ridiculous with creationism and whatnot.

>>6317853
he's a horrible turdlicking child
leave him

>>6317775
>pretty white
Not good enough.

>>6317543
The ten commandments are part of the catechism of many churches. But the Apostle's creed is a better analogy. You don't go around asking Christians to recite it. And most wouldn't be able to. However, if you were to ask most Christians questions about what it contains, such as who made the earth, they'd have no problem with it.

But back to the original issue, there are no circumstances where asking a Buddhist to recite the four noble truths, and then assuming they're discrediting Buddhists, isn't incredibly autistic. Your repeated attempts at finding ways to excuse your bizarre train of thought are only further evidence of your mental state.

>>6317949
Fucking this.

If OP would stop acting like a smug asshole and asked the other guy if he agreed that "Suffering is caused by desire." He'd probably realize, that infact he was aware of the four noble truths.

>>6317129
Siddhartha didn't write down anything and it's been oral tradition and exponential hand by now

So at first people liked it because it broke down the hierarchy Hinduism set up

Now the West likes it because it's peaceful and brought upon to themselves. It's a story behind meditation. They likely don't follow it all the way, like most Christians and Muslims

http://www.ascendexistence.com/you-created-this-universe/

>>6317129
Because they think that distancing themselves from materialism and affection allows them to function more efficiently in their pursuit of materia.

>>6317378
this is probably the most underated post on the whole of 4chan

>>6319244
Absurd reduction w/r/t 5chinz and pretending it's 2005 is just shitposting anon.

>>6317249
Sure bud

>>6317129
>>6317169

This is your "proletariat" /lit/. Someone who thinks they know a lot about nothing.

>>6319309
You spelled Bourgeoisie sum wrong.

>>6319400
;)

I talk in wealth of the mind

>>6317169
>Also what kind of secular philosophy addresses soteriological concerns?

"all things come to be in accordance with this Logos"

sniff

>>6317129
>but Hinduism isn't?
It's at least as popular as Buddhism with that crowd, if not more.

Hinduism is a really pretty religion. And it is really popular with trendy hipsters at least in its watered down form. Look how popular yoga is and how many people believe in chakras. Just cause white kids don't call themselves Hindu doesn't mean the influence isn't there.

>>6317129
Probably because high-caste Hindus (so priests) are white, white-kid Buddhism is all about shitskin-fetishism.

>>6317129
>It was cool enough for George Harrison wasn't it?

I don't know that George Harrison was a Buddhist at any point.

>>6317220
I've never seen someone btfo'd this hard on /lit/

>>6317249
>I don't know in what fairy-tale world you've been living but most of the "Buddhists" I've encountered know fuck all about Buddhism.
Buddhism is hard to access in the west because it's so far beyond the polar opposite of our culture, particularly in the 20th-21st century. Seriously, I've probably read half a dozen books on buddhism and lost in translation insults how hard it is to get a good, succinct book on buddhism. The main problem basically comes from the fact that the basics that are taken for granted are indoctrinated in eastern culture but not in western. It's sort of like if you made a Japanese man watch Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Even a teenager in America would understand most of the jokes. Not that a teenagers would understand all the 'layers' to it but he'd get the jist. A Japanese man would write it off as silly slapstick.

>>6317344
>just as there are self professed "Christians" in the western world who are actually practicing ancestor and goddess worship.
Holy shit this. If you wanna talk about people not following a religion properly lets start with all these conservative Christians saying fuck the poor and how we should bomb towel heads because Jesus wanted us to.

>>6320600
That too.

>>6320592
Dude, Buddhism is really simple. "Wanting things will leave you disappointed. Stop wanting things and you will be happy." Similar ideas can be found in Christianity "All you really need is god. Wanting anything else is sinful." and stoicism. "Only want things that you can realistically obtain."

Saying that it's "Complex exotic eastern religion that Baka Gaijin can't possibly understand." is racist and completely untrue. Yes there are many different versions of Buddhism and some have culturally specific cosmologies. But the basic idea of suffering arising from desire, is all you really need to "Get" Buddhism.

It's a proselytizing religion with universal appeal that has been spreading across the globe. People are into it for reasons that have nothing to do with looking hip or exotic.

Hinduism reinforces conservative norms such as traditional family values and knowing your place in society. It also appeals heavily to the "just world" premise used in conservative rhetoric.

Naturally hipsters don't like it.

I'm a lot less cynical than most and genuinely believe these "trendy white kid pop-orientalist pseudo-religious hipsters", who likely live in a very materialistic society, honestly just want escape from it, to think about something higher and more meaningful than circular metal discs and paper notes for a few hours.

Of course, they fail spectacularly because they still hold the metal disc as *sacred*. Buddhism is the temporary exorcism of the ghost of money that possesses them. Money has no real value; it can only makes itself *real* by consuming the mortal mind for nourishment, by making itself corporeal through you. But the middle-class materialistic folk cannot break free of this etherial binding, they cannot destroy the concept of money and consume it, utilize it, as they see fit. They can only be haunted by it. Except the few nights a week they meet up with their "girlfriends" at the local Buddhist Temple.

>>6320688
>racist
I don't know how you got racism out of that.

I'm saying there's an indoctrination of culture that makes Buddhism much less accessible to westerners. You can't even deny this. Take your example with christianity. What is 'God' in this case. Who is He? What's He like? What does He want from me? Just to go to church on Sunday and worship? Pray? Be a hermit? What does 'wanting' include here. Does that include love from another? I can't want love from people? What about certain needs? Are anything beyond those means sinful? What is sinful? What even *is* sin? Even your over simplification of Christianity, you already had cultural knowledge of several of those things that made that blanket statement easy.Taken a step further, western books on Christianity can name drop certain people without having to go into too much depth. Like Martin Luther. At most, a western book on Christianity would just have to go 'yeah he was the main reason we had the protestant reformation.' Even most laymen would know what that means. But if a western book on buddhism name dropped 'Random Chinese dude' and say he 'was the main reason we got X sect of Buddhism'. 99% of westerners would be lost while most easterners would probably know, simplky because they were born in that culture.
It's not even a matter of whether or not the religion is complicated. I never argued that. The main crux of my argument was that it's the great gap of culture and indoctrinated knowledge.

>>6320740
>>6320708
>>6320690
>>6320592
>>6317949
The first 50 to 100 responses to these eastern religion/philosophy threads are mostly garbage. Thank you for sticking around and making reading this thread at least not entirely a waste of my time.
Sincerely anon

>>6320740
Most Christians don't know or care who Martian Luther is either. If you ask a random American on the street They will probably confuse him with Dr King. All they know, and all they need to know, is that some guy named Jesus died for your sins, and that you can get to heaven by accepting his love.

Similarly, all you need to know to be a Buddhist is that some guy named Buddha figured out why people were unhappy and you can be like him if you stop obsessing over material things and live a mindful existence.

How do you think Chinese and Japanese became Buddhists? It's an Indian religion, they weren't at all familiar with the Hinduism it was a reaction too. And yet today china and Japan are mostly Buddhist countries.
Or do you think that Chinese and Indian culture are somehow connected because they are both eastern, while European and American culture are vastly different because they are western?


I called you racist because you are being orientalist. The east is not some strange exotic land. You can read about Buddhism in books written by Buddhism for the express purpose of teaching new followers the basics, because like most religions, it's followers Proselytize. Christianity is expanding into Asia as well, that's how culture works. East/West is an outdated idea, and has been ever since the late 19th century.
The Ottoman empire no longer cockblocks trade between asia and Europe, and Japan toyed with being a European style colonial power before settling on exporting it's culture across the globe.

http://www.dhammaweb.net/books/Dr_Walpola_Rahula_What_the_Buddha_Taught.pdf

Here you go, written by a Shri-Lankan Monk who's also the Professor of History and Religions at Northwestern University. It's specifically to teach white kids about Buddhism. And It's not that complicated.

If you are a weaboo or can't read books without pictures, Osamu Tezuka's manga Buddha also gives a good idea, both of the context Buddhism was created under, and the Buddha's teachings. It does a better job of explaining it's religion than most illustrated bible story books.

>>6321939
Buddhism and Hinduism both contain rebirth and moksha/nirvana. If you grow up thinking you'll be reincarnated in your mind you want an escape from the wild ride. Hence a whole mindset difference. Yes there are elements of heaven and hell reincarnations in eastern religions but at the same time it adds an impermanence to this incarnation which is lost in Christianity except in perhaps Ecclesiastes.

>>6321963
Buddhism and Christianity both contain monks and meditation. They also both teach you that the materiel world is unimportant and that you should obtain salvation/nirvana instead of wasting time pursuing worldly pleasures.

Reincarnation might be a bit hard for westerners to fully understand, but most people have a basic idea that "asians think you are born into a new body when you die instead of going to heaven or hell."

And even then there are schools of Buddhism that have no afterlife or cosmology whatsoever. Buddhism has historically adopted the cosmology of whatever culture it spreads into. In India it was a reaction to Hinduism, In china it addopted chinese cosmology, and In japan it basically Hijacked Shintoism.

In the west, it strips the cosmology away and behaves like a self help philosophy, because that's the mythology of secular westerners. It dosn't need to tell you what happens after death because upper middle class white kids don't think about death and are more concerned with being happy now.

>>6322006
Nevertheless, Hinduism and Buddhism possess superior knowledge of the process of consciousness ascension. While there are certainly enlightened Christian monks, the process of consciousness ascension is much better understood and analyzed in the east.

tl;dr Sun Wukong > Jesus

>>6317129
Because pic related was a Western Buddhist.

>>6322029
Omg he's so dreamy. I would totes go back in time and save him from his evil girlfriend.

>>6322028
That's just racist oreantalism. The Asian equivalent of the Magical Negro stereotype.

>>6322044
Eastern and Western philosophy are like esoteric/exoteric. Thomas Merton said as a Trappist monk he felt he had more in common with a Buddhist monk than a lay Christian. Christian mysticism is silly because the author's always afraid of getting burnt at the stake.

>>6322028

>knowledge of the process of consciousness ascension

ideology, thy name is pure

>>6322082
Monks are usually happier than Zizek followers. Who would you rather be?

>>6322093

Has science gone too far? Click here to vote.

>>6322079
pls, Merton's comparison is monastic vs layman , not east vs west

>>6322097
Besides the Dalai Lama is a Marxist.

>>6322122

I'm a white twenty-something male from Southern California with Protestant parents and a menial job

you'll have to work harder to make me an eastern monk

>>6322105
Merton had very positive things to say about Eastern philosophy. You should read some of it. The most important principle of philosophy is charity which many westerners seem not to grant the east.

>>6322123
Try praying for a month. Record changes in your attitude. Try meditation for a month. Record changes in your attitude. Try both. Record changes in your attitude.

I guarantee you will see results.

>>6322122

>tfw a liberal calls himself a marxist

>>6317248
unterr8ed

>>6321939
>Most Christians don't know or care who Martian Luther is either
You must not hang out with a lot of Christians. Most rank him fourth in the importance of Christian history, after Jesus, Peter, and Constantine.

So what you think there *aren't* gaps between cultures? Cultures geographically close are more 'blended' but the greater the distance in geography, the greater the distance in indoctrinated culture. Take China. South and North China write the same language, but spoken a northen chinese and southern chinese person wouldn't be able to understand each other. Again, I'm not saying it's some great exotic land. Nor am I being patronizing to the East.

Again, for the third time, I'm saying it's a matter of indoctrinated knowledge within the culture. To go back to my Monty Python example, a Chinese guy wouldn't 'get' the holy hand grenade speech, while a layman in America would. That's what I mean but certain things indoctrinated into the culture. Unless the Chinese guy has extensively studied the English language and its works, the whole joke would fly over his head, while the laymen in America would've only had to go to high school.

Or shit, to prove my point, go read a Japanese gag manga. Plenty of them have jokes you would only understand if you had a very broad and at least mid-tier understanding of Japanese culture and history. Take this picture. The set-up is that the character said he wasn't worried about rain because he had a 'kapa' the Japanese word for 'raincoat'. But no, he meant he was going to dress *as* a kappa, a Japanese folklore monster. But do they explain this in the show? No. They take it for granted that the viewer knows this as a layman in Japan.

It's not about East/West being exotic lands. It's about 'things' people 'know' within cultures that would be taken for granted when sharing information.

>>6317129
Where is her nose?

In former British Empire countries white Hindus aren't that unheard of.

The reason it seems Buddhism is more popular is because there's way more Chinese/Korean/Japanese/SEA Buddhist immigrants than Hindu Indian immigrants and so Hinduism gets less press.

>>6317129
> using the term hipster
what are you, 40 year old soccermom?

>>6317129
>hipsters
>buddhism
Wut? Are you shut-ins really that clueless about the outside world?

>>6322633
Apparently /lit/ has all of its knowledge about other humans from that surprisingly lengthy amount of time when The Simpsons were past their prime, but still not really shit yet either, since these are the episodes /lit/ grew up with.

>structuralists arguing over definitions

Because Buddhism actually makes a modicum of sense.

All those California new age hippies are always into Buddhism or Hinduism though.
Western Buddhism is corrupted Buddhism, like some pot smoking hippie who doesn't know shit about Buddhism and thinks its all peace and love when really its about suppressing your emotions till you want to kill yourself like the entire population of japan.

Only edgy western Negroes convert to islam because of malcom x, and even then the west has corrupted Islam, have you read the nation of islam wiki page?
It has aliens and shit.
Not only that but the guy who created the nation of islam, a black supremacist group, was clearly not black, he was white or at least south asian or some shit, google that shit man.

Also i guess someone forgot to tell Malcolm about the arab slave trade, fuck man muslims were enslaving niggers before it was cool.

Islam has this taint of being a shitskin religion in the west, and anytime you do see a white convert to it they always have those crazy eyes like they cant wait to get on a plane to syria

I find Zoroastrianism to be interesting but apparently outsiders are not allowed to convert to it.

Also no one in the west ever converts to Sikhism, im not even really sure what the fuck Sikhs do

>>6317391
kek my ass off

>>6322586
Most Americans don't know what a sovern's orb is though, the humor in that scene mostly comes from the absurdity of a holy thrown explosive. Sure, an Englishman might have looked at a picture of King Charles and thought to himself "Wow, it looks like he's holding a hand grenade." and then been reminded of that while watching Monty Python, but it's not necessary to find it funny. Even a Japanese viewer will have a vague idea about what makes things "holy" in the christian sense (usually it means it's silver and has a cross on it) and still get the joke that hand grenades are an absurd choice for sacred weapons.

As for the Kappa joke, you could easily find that out from a Wikipedia search, or even translators notes. Anybody who has an interest in anime outside of dubs on cable television, will probably have learned at some point that "Japanese humor is mostly puns and subverted expectations." and assume as such if they don't get the joke immediately.

In the modern age, most people have at least a vague stereotyped view of other cultures, and can easily access more detailed information if they care to do so. Somebody who is interested in a region will probably seek information about it. And because Buddhism is a religion intended for every living being, they are likely to find it.

And Buddhism is a lot less dependent on Indian cultural baggage than Hinduism. Hence how it spread so easily across Asia by adapting to local mythologies.

Is there any evidence that Shintoism contained a belief in reincarnation before Buddhism came to Japan? I know Taoism had a lot of similar ideas to Buddhism, but you can't deny that Buddhism has and will continue to spread across countries which have almost nothing in common with India.

>>6323040
>Also no one in the west ever converts to Sikhism, im not even really sure what the fuck Sikhs do

The foundation of Sikhism is "Don't be Muslim or Hindu." and "Always carry weapons to defend yourselves from Muslims and Hindus." but also "Be nice to everyone who isn't attacking you." and "Never shave or take off your clothes ever."

It's a religion formed in reaction to religious violence.

>>6323644

>Is there any evidence that Shintoism contained a belief in reincarnation before Buddhism came to Japan?

No, but you have to remember that we don't really have a clear idea of what Shintoism was like before Chinese cultural influence because there were no written records at that time, the whole concept of writing being a very distinct Chinese cultural influence. The Shinto afterlife as described in the Kojiki is the Yellow Springs, that is a subterranean land of the dead imported from China and quite distinct from the Buddhist-influenced Earth Prisons that would later be conceived of in China as the road to reincarnation.

>>6323699
So evidence points too both china and japan believing in underworld afterlives before Buddhism came and introduced the Hindu concept of reincarnation.

Much like how westerners are being introduced to the concept today via Buddhism Buddhist influenced new age spirituality.

>>6323723

Sort of. Laozi is said to have had multiple incarnations in texts dating from before Buddhism was brought to China, but this has more to do with general denial among early "daoist" thinkers of beginnings and endings as anything more than artifacts of perception than it does with a coherent doctrine of reincarnation. It's very much the case that the later organized doctrines of reincarnation in Chinese religion are Indian in their ultimate origin; the high king of the Earth Prisons is Yama himself. You can see him at the top left here.

http://academic.reed.edu/hellscrolls/scrolls/Aseries/A05/index.html

>>6323784
Well there are similarities between Taoism and Buddhism, but there are also similarities between Buddhism and Stoicism and Epicuruism.

Point is, Reincarnation wasn't universal across eastern religion until Buddhism made it that way, and Buddhism has proven adapt at exporting itself to other cultures.

Earlier in the thread people were saying that Buddhism only spread to china and japan because of similar practices already in place. This is not true, it spread there first because of geographical proximity.

What annoys me the most is how Buddhism is becoming politicised in the west, particularly the USA. Social justice warriors are using it as a vehicle to further their political endeavors. Pick up any copy of a Buddhist magazine like Shambhala Sun or Tricycle and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Keep that shit to yourself or use some other method of organisation, don't bring Buddhism into it

>>6323040
>when really its about suppressing your emotions till you want to kill yourself like the entire population of japan.
Except it's not.

>>6317129
because buddhism isn't necessarily theistic.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Rama

Buddhism is a universal religion. In theory, every human could become a buddhist.

>>6323040
>doesn't know shit about Christianity and thinks its all peace and love when really its about suppressing your emotions till you want to kill the entire native population of north America.

This argument can and has been made against any and all ascetic religions. Get in line behind Nietzsche.

No matter which religion you choose you run into the problem of the gap. The gap here is the relationship between rationality and truth. All religions are rational and internally consistent but not all religions can be true. The question of which religion to choose then becomes a matter of reconciling plurality and exclusivity. Buddhism accomplishes this marvelously by saying all religions help one see through illusion and into noumenal reality. Hence it is a natural choice for the globalized hipster phenomena.

>>6323958
Schopenhauer>Nietzsche. I identify as a Buddhist but only because it's easier to explain than saying I'm Schopenhauerian.

>>6323951
In theroy, any sentient being could become a Buddhist. In the versions of Buddhism that include a belief in supernatural creatures, even gods and demons are subject to Dukkha, and can benefit from Buddha's teachings.

>>6323963
I'm using Nietzsche as a straw man here.

>>6317129
Why was the thread on praying 404ed while this one is still here?

>>6323644
>As for the Kappa joke, you could easily find that out from a Wikipedia search, or even translators notes.

And if you have to do that, you're proving my point.

>>6323983
Your point that westerners will have to do some research to learn about Buddhism?

That's very different from not being able to understand it at all.

>>6323961
>all religions are internally consistent
Kek

>>6317391
>>6317391
top kek

>Hey guys, look how authentic and cool I am for being a normalfag instead of some tryhard hipster who wants to be a special snowflake by liking things that I don't like

>>6324006
I never said people couldn't understand it. I said it was less accessible because indoctrination of culture.

Hinduism has a cultural wall of China effect that makes it very hard to get into besides the things exporteted like yoga or meditation. "Hinduism" as a religion has a very long history with many different sects and interpretations and schools, it's not like Islam where someone can dive in and go, "Should I be Sunni or Shia"? You have to climb a big cultural wall before you can enter and Indians aren't too concerned with helping you climb it.

>>6322137
Maybe you should pray harder?

>>6317129
Hinduism was quite popular with hippies in the 70's no?

>>6317322
I have asked a ROOM FULL of lifelong Christians to recite the ten commandments before. As an ENTIRE ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE, we got to six.

>implying religious people know anything about their own religion, even the most basic principles

>>6327316
Maybe you should have asked Jews since the ten commandments are actually important to them because they haven't been saved by Jesus.

>>6320592
Japs love monty python though

>>6327316
The ten commandments aren't the basic principles of Christianity. The basic principles of Christianity are outlined in the Nicene-Constantinople Creed, which many Christians know by heart.

>>6327814
Japs also understand the christian concept of "holyness" enough to get the jokes, thanks to the Jesuits.

Just like how Americans understand the eastern concepts of karma and reincarnation through the new age movement.

>>6327840
I knew what that was, but not by name, I had to look it up before realizing "Oh' it's that thing we say in church." Most modern Christians aren't bible studiers.

>buddhism

>>6322122
>theocratic dictator
>marxist

tibet is the ironing of the people