/lit/ - Literature

yes

do whatever you want

>>6923212
>Should I learn french or german?

Latin.

If your goal is to enjoy some great literature French is probably more rewarding, but German is very nice as well. Just do the first Duolingo lessons in both languages and see which one interests you the most.

>>6923212
Duolingo is garbage, read Fluent Forever or at least buy Assimil or something, Jesus. And learn whichever one you like more, personal motivation is the most important part of language learning.

>>6923472
its not garbage you just have to do it everyday and make use of the extra features.

i've found it to be worth 15 minutes of my time a day and im really impressed with the level of reading comprehension i have after 5 months.

>>6923212
why not both AT THE SAME TIME

>>6923472
I find Rosetta Stone(tml) to be the best software package I have ever used, personally. I learned the language quickly and easily. And it was a total bargain at just $399! Think of how much a university education costs in comparison.

When learning languages, you want the best. Go big or go home. Go Rosetta Stone(tm). Only $379 for a limited time only at select Best Buy locations.

>>6923472
I like duolingo, and I personally can't stand Assimil.

>>6923978
Duolingo isn't perfect, but it's about as good as rosetta stone, and it's fucking FREE.

>>6923212
Depends on the literature you are going for.

Note that while German grammar is more difficult, there is little wordplay surrounding it, while the French like to play around with structures. When it comes to nouns the Germans are more playful.

The phonology of both is quite different from English. So I suggest spending allot of time with pronunciation.

>>6923212
French speaker here and german learner. For lit i recommend french, but german for social sciences and phil

>>6923212
Learn Italian so you can understand opera.

>>6924161
>For lit i recommend french
>german for social sciences and phil
This is why I started French instead of continuing what little I learned of German in school. Also because I really despised the German language, teacher was cool though.

>>6923212
Learn ancient greek so you don't have to rely on shit translations.

>>6924319
>>6924319
Once you get on the fluent level, it's actually a great language. For anything, really (except sex).
But until then its excruciating. Especially if you can't get real experience by just living in a German speaking country.

>>6923212
french so you can read le proust

i've been trying to decide this too, op
i made two big pics of german writers vs french writers

>>6923212
If you have to ask on 4chan you will not get any further than "Jeou woodrays... eouhm... liberty fries!" or "Eek will un... oh! ... ayeen... beer! Dankoo"
This I tell you as someone who read books in German, in Russian and in French without being a native speaker.

>>6924390
tfw no gunter

>>6924464
When an author is so good that all Germans collectively ignore that he is/was a nazi, you ought to read him.

>>6924470
lol exactly

>>6924384
>>6924390
That's a remarkable level of autism. What was the book, again, by the type you've so inconspicuously placed between Fichte, Schelling, Hegel, Hoffman, Heine and Marx? "the Loner and his Ego", wasn't it?

>>6924470
>all Germans collectively ignore

>>6924495
Who cares about an Antifa boycott. They didn't read beforehand.

>>6924358
>For anything, really (except sex).
Care to explain?

>tfw triying to learn german for your waifu

-Philosophy-

German
>Rich vocabulary for philosophy, one that doesn't translate properly or well
>Tendency toward clarity and specificity, with even the notoriously dense authors simply requiring acclimation
>Most important and seminal thinkers in philosophy for the past 200-300 years
>Masters of movements still cutting edge and relevant today
French
>Limited, non-agglutinative vocabulary, translates fine to English
>Tendency toward deliberate obscurantism even at the lowest level, allowing for total charlatans to masquerade as legitimate philosophers to hipsters for decades
>A few important movements, mostly simple undergraduate level (Enlightenment era) or only of interest to women and hipsters (20th c.)
>Masters of fraudulent movements that are clogging philosophy and culture today

-Literature-

German
>Great masters and innovators in Romanticism, Realism, and Modernism
>Mellifluous but precise poetry from a language well-suited for it
>Covers great philosophical themes
>Several great masters like Goethe
French
>Mostly derivative works of saccharine romanticism or outright romance, of little interest to moderns
>Limp language, 'weak'-feeling, no clear stops or divisions, tendency toward the saccharine and effeminate, inferior in flow to fellow Romance language Italian (which also has a superior corpus of poetry)
>Mostly interpersonal, emotional stories, designed to titillate rather than enlighten or cause introspection, good for female readers
>More prolific than profound (Sartre)

-Culture & utility-

Germans
>Politest people on earth
>Industrious
>Powerhouse of Europe, leader of the EU
>Either win wars or lose them when the entire planet joins in
French
>Notoriously rudest people on earth
>Notoriously indolent
>Flagging relevance, second fiddle to Germany in EU
>Lose wars before they start

>>6924693
>or lose them when the entire planet joins in
>Doytches in charge of remembering history
Japan started fighting before the Nazi scum and kept fighting after they gave up. Fascshits are just idiots, that's all.

>>6924665
There are languages that lend themselves to sex talk and some that don't.
German doesn't.
Unless it is BDSM. Then it's perfect.

There is simply no non-vulgar or non-clinical vocabulary that is more explicit than the usual "make love" or "sleep with me".
In the heat of the moment it usually doesn't matter and a well-placed "Fick mich!" is always nice. But dirty talk... Yuck...

I hear the Spanish do quite well on that end.

>>6923472
>read Fluent Forever
So it's just Anki ad: the Book?

>>6924722
>Unless it is BDSM. Then it's perfect.
i always thought that Russian was better suited for that.

>tfw like german philosophy
>tfw like french literature
HOW DO I CHOOSE

>>6924693
top tier bait

>>6924729
It's kinda rapey, imho. But then again I've never slept with a Russian.

With the amount of alcoholism, I'm honestly surprised their population doesn't plummet via vodka-dick.

>>6924731
German:
>great philosophy
>great literature

French:
>great literature
>mostly bullshit philosophy

>>6924722
Dejame culearte toda la noche, medirte el aceite del culo como si de un viejo Ford Impala se tratara.

>>6924763
Spreitz' deine Beine, mach dich nackig, lass dich geh'n!

>>6924722
You mean that "Bück dich" isn't going to make girls wet? Fuck

>>6924934
Not if she isn't already wet or likes to be dominated.

Just so you know New Directions publishes bilingual editions of Baudelaire and Rimbaud if you wanted to go the French route.

You could also see if your local library has any children's picture books in French.

>>6924693
>>Mostly interpersonal, emotional stories, designed to titillate rather than enlighten or cause introspection, good for female readers
I want Nietzsche to leave.

>>6925010
That's what the hookers said!
*badum tss*

>>6924763
First a joke
>implying sex

That does also sort of fit the view I personally have on German. It's such a "hard-sounding" language, and all those throaty noises. I was also horrible at the grammar, I have no idea how I managed to get the equivalent of a B- in High School.
>I hear the Spanish do quite well on that end.
They also have that lightness of tongue in the language or whatever one might call it. It sounds very smooth similarly to French. On that: would like to learn Spanish some day.
Was reminded of Risitas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDiB4rtp1qw

>mfw French:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8CNpNUKoQA

>>6924487
Max Stirner, The Ego and Its Own.

>>6923998
>Duolingo isn't perfect, but it's about as good as rosetta stone, and it's fucking FREE.
...so is rosetta stone ?

>>6926099
French can also be very rough, depending on the dialect.
What I like about it is that it is nearly impossible to be lazy with German, without diverting to slang or heavy dialect. It's a very clear and distinct language. Obviously this is what most Germans like to be playful with.

But obviously most foreigners (especially ones with drastically different phonology) will think it sounds like bloodlusting Hebrew.

And yes, the Grammar is a killer. To the point that sometimes Germans get confused. Especially because there are dozens of dialects that fuck with shit like articles, which are utterly pointless to begin with.

Yeah, but only if you can get over the pretentiousness of the French (don't act like it isn't there) and the incurable and overbearing romanticism of the Spanish.
But I greatly appreciate their accents when speaking German. Whispered. Into my ear.
>tfw I got a trilingual female friend to tape soft spoken light erotica in both these accents for me

So yeah. I think French is for impress, Spanish is to woo and German is to be dominant.

>>6926128
Accents? German with a French and Spanish accent or?

>I think French is for impress, Spanish is to woo and German is to be dominant.
How about Russian?

>>6924693
>french are sissies
Who is Napoleon? Fun fact: Napoleon was unstoppable and only lost due to subordinate incompetence. He even escaped lifelong imprisonment on an island.
>french have no clear writers or important thinkers
Who are Roussaeu and Voltaire i.e. the fathers of the Enlightenment. Existentialism.
>french have no music
What is ballet, French opera, minuet and trio, all Louis's court composers

People who shit-talk France are dolts. They are ridiculously wrong.

How did this Le French sissy thing start? How do people forget about fucking NAPOLEON? It's just America, isn't it? We're that fucking stupid.

>>6926134
>accents
Yeah, their accent in German.
But I have been told by French women and men, that they enjoy the German accent in French as well and also think it is sexy.
Guess it all comes down to exotica...

>Russian
Depends how heavy they are on the "BLEAT"s i.e. how drunk they are.
Drunk: rapey
Sober and calm: fear inducing
I honestly can't associate the Russian language with sex. At least not directly.
But I can at least imagine how the accent might be appealing.

>>6926149
It's just Americans who can't get over ancient war history/propaganda.
>"Oh a Frenchy! Got ur white flag on ya? AHAHAHA"

But then again one might argue that the French male stereotypes are typically more effeminate in comparison to, say, the Spanish. But then again that is pretty much just Northers France i.e. Paris. I find Southern French to be perfectly manly. :3

>>6924729
>>6924722
The funny thing is both the Germans and the Russian resort to English vocab when they do BDSM just like you resort to Italian vocab to do Grand Prix racing or to French in the Sartorial Industry. It is because the lack of a social security net in America as well as the larger number of extremely wealthy people coupled with non-free education makes all kinds of prostitution a much more lucrative business.

Bands like Rammstein and writers like Vladimir Sorokin attempt to take over terms from their domestic "advanced interrogation technique" traditions but none of it sticks because the folks who do BDSM don't necessarily read their books or listen to their lyrics (which do not cover everything).

>>6926149
>tfw haven't read Roberts' new Napoleon book yet
>tfw haven't read Gueniffey's new Napoleon book yet
Vive l'Empereur, Vive la France, Vive l'Empire

>>6926154
>people still refer to Napoleon as a midget as a result of the British propaganda at the time when in reality he was of average height
He deserves better than that

>>6926159
Only for the distinct terminology. Like "edgeplay" or "bondage".
"Get on your knees!" will never be as powerful as "Knie nieder!"

>>6926167
>he deserves better
He's dead, so who gives a fuck.
Point is: The only appropriate response to such nonsense is "Do you actually know French people personally?"

>>6926177
>He's dead, so who gives a fuck.
who cares about some old white dudes who wrote some stuff hundreds of years ago, lmao Greeks? smh fuck off nerd

Appropriate response to what?

>>6926183
Most of what you know about historical figures is wrong or at the very least altered by whomever ended up actually writing history. You don't give two shits about whatever propaganda was written about Hitler or Xerxes.

To French-shaming. That is the topic here. Not the stereotype of Americana-ignorance towards history.

>>6926173
Well, after you have already said "Etschpläj", would "Kneel!" not be the better choice, stylistically, than still your native "Knie nieder!"?

>>6926196
As always, relative by audience.
My point is that it is close to impossible to communicate with your partner in German without it somehow sounding like an order (safe for whatever you are pleading for close to climax).

>>6923978
Shill detected

Good thing we got to the sex part in the thread implying I will ever ever get laid is Italian worth anything in that department? The little I know it seems awful for that.

Should I stick to my Spanish or is french superior for sex?

>>6926303
Unless you want to bang Italian chicks, stick to Spanish/French.

>>6926311
But is Italian even sexual? It just seems so happy and the word they use for dick is awful.

Other thing I still can't find a word for vagina that I like in the entires spanish and english languages any recommendation? What does italian have for that?

>>6926319
As far as I know it is mostly vain.
I have heard from multiple people (both Italians and visitors) that the women are sick and tired of Italian men rather gaze into every reflection to adjust their hair than actually looking at them.

>>6923923
You'd be reading shit like Voltaire and Camus with little problem after five months if you'd used textbooks and audio courses instead of the lazy man's method.

>>6926479
>you'd be reading shit like Voltaire and Camus with little problem after five months

>>6926488
I'm not sure whether you're >implying that that's slow progress, unrealistically fast progress, or if you just want to insult the particular authors?

>>6926494
You clearly would not. Do not believe strangers on the internet, especially when they are bullshitting to such an extend.

>>6926498
>You clearly would not.

Dude, I literally did it myself. If it took you significantly longer than ~3 months before you could read basic literary fiction, then I'd like to know which methods you employed and how much time you spent studying per day? I suspect that you simply did not do the requisite hard work.

>>6926531
I already speak French, I state it from my experience as a FSL teacher. French differs a lot from English and even a quick learner would struggle with simple text after only five months of learning. I'd rather capitalize on, at least, two years with a steady personal schedule and maybe four to six years with school courses to read without troubles a typical piece of text. Add one to two years for introducing yourself to literature and another year for getting accustomed to it. This period may however vary regarding the kind of literature you're leaning toward. Contemporary literature is far easier than classical poetry or theatre. However, Voltaire in five months? Absolutely, categorically impossible. You would be a genius working on it ten hours a day.

>>6926538
>7-10years intense study to be fluent in a language
Dude, while 5 months may be a stretch, I get the feeling you yourself may just not be as linguistically smart as you think...

>>6926808
:^)
start with the greeks

>>6926808
I already said I'm fluent in French and I said 2 years to speak it and 4 years to read literature with intense study. My estimation of 4 to 6 years only applies for a school schedule. Don't pervert what I said.

Anyway, let's ignore the literature. French has two distinct grammatical genders. I know a English native that can't use the proper article after eighteen years of living in France. Seriously. Its conjugation and inflections are far more complex and the sequence of tense is extremely subtle once you use the subjonctive tenses. The plural is chaotic and ofter contains exceptions and obscure etymological explanations (“festival” makes “festivals” and not “festivaux”, “cheval” makes “chevaux”, “ail” makes “aulx”, ...) even French rarely are aware of. Then enters the prepositions, the many liaisons, the formation of adverbs, the irregular verbs, the counting system, the way numbers are written. Solely being able to learn and remember this, which is the most basic grammar, already takes thousands and thousands of hours. Add the basic vocabulary, with each word its gender (and unless you're familiar with Latin and Old French grammar, you will not be able to predict the gender of a new word) and plural, and you easily have years of work.

Now think about the literature. As I previously said, it depends on the authors you're interested in. Reading Camus, Sartre or Houellebecq is pretty easy. On the other hand, the older are the writers you read, the more you will need to work and study advanced grammar and vocabulary. Sentences like “mais eux, si tu savais de quel sommeil ils dorment ! Leurs lits sont froids et lourds” or “sauve à mon repentir un doute insidieux” are pretty fucked up constructions frequently met in literature. Thoses phrases belong respectively to Victor Hugo and Charle-Augustin de Sainte-Beuve. If your intention is to read earlier writers, like writers of 16th and 17th centuries, you can spend further years learning ancient vocabulary and etymology. Even the French students, when reading this kind of work, have books with 5+ footnotes per page commenting the meaning of sentences and words used. I seriously can't think of reading Voltaire in five months as something even conceivable.

>>6926867
Dude, I had to be fluent in German within a year. Maybe I'm just jaded.

Also tl;dr
Honestly because I haven't slept a wink the past 36h.
I'll go to bed now.

Have fun, kids!

Anyone learnt German here? I plan on using Duolingo but I feel I need more resources. What are some good books that teach your german (as in guides to learning german rather than easy to read german stories)? Also, what books have easy to read German for begginers? I'd like to reach (for now) a stage where I can read Hesse and maybe some of the Romantic poets

>>6926894
I'm curious of what being fluent means to you, as well as “reading with little difficulty”. I would have wanted to ask you to simultaneously pursue this discussion in French if you did not have to go.

>>6926867
Agreed, Camus is pretty easy but reading Voltaire after such a short time sounds unrealistic. I'm glad I'm a native speaker so I just understand all that crap instinctively and don't need to know the rules.

>>6926919
>don't need to know the rules.

>>6926867
>>6926910
Well written, I think that guy >>6926894 is trying to play himself off as a smartiepants(>o-oh, yeah, well i haven't slept in so and so hours so i cant read all that he-he, going to bed! have fun kids!!). He probably thinks of "fluent" as being able to have passable conversation in German with other people.

>>6926910
I mostly measure it on being able to be spontaneously humerus in a language.
As for serious lit, I'd agree that that comes more from practical experience, rather than scholarly study.
And I'll admit to having a bias, as I have learned pretty much every language I know through necessity by environment, rather than in a school.
>>6926954
I graduated from a German school with an A in German and am now currently studying in Austria, earning extra cash as a German teacher/translator.
But I'll admit that I can barely follow the conversation right now, as I have obviously misunderstood the dude at least two times. Which is exactly the reason why I am opting out, since I am making a fool of myself (on an anonymous image board...).

>>6926994
*humorous

Yup, that's what I mean.

>>6926919
You should beware and not consider French as learnt, especially if we're referring to the language written between the 16th and 18th centuries, which slightly yet substantially difers from ours. I suggest reading more and consolidating your grammar with advanced subjects and historical study. Learning Latin is also appreciated.

>>6926954
Well, I think he might be a bit unrealistic and naive about what “fluent” implies in term of mastery and ease. He said he read Camus (I can buy it, his writing is quite simple) and Voltaire but it gives no information on how well he read and understood them. It may be possible he barely decipher it like an Egyptian cartouche. I cannot blame him nor doubt of his sincerity till we talk together in French.

>>6926994
Right. Good evening.

>>6926994
Your reputation as anonymous has forever been squandered.
The point that guy is making is that learning a language well enough to be able to read the literature, both the more approachable but also the difficult heavy stuff, takes a long time and a lot of studying. There's the point of understanding as well, as he says in >>6927003
>It may be possible he barely decipher it like an Egyptian cartouche.

>>6927003
Oh, I'm not the dude who claimed he read it in 5 months.
I was just butting in.
>>6927013
Good night.

>>6926896
Michael Ende.