/lit/ - Literature

>>6970151

>>6970151
Dawkins knows shit about the metaphysical nature about reality

>>6970159
that's because it was made up

>>6970164
what happens after death

>>6970166
our body decomposes

Vivaldi's Violin Concertos
Shakespeare's Julius Caesar
Burke's Philosophical Inquiry into the Sublime and Beautiful
Gardner's Art through the Ages: Western Perspective
The Gnostic Bible

>>6970175
do you go to sleep for eternity? meaning, you being awake now, will then be asleep forever? blackness?

>>6970178

You go to asleep every night, and yet the world continues. Consciousness isn't that special. Also, you can't have 'blackness' when there isn't anything 'there' to be conscious of that 'blackness.'

>>6970178
>thinks there's no biological difference between being asleep and being dead

>>6970183
all I mean is a void of consciosness

>>6970190
yes but from this perspective in this moment, once you are dead, you are dead forever. that is what you believe?

if so, do you feel you have any more purpose than a bug crawling on the ground?

There is historical, literary, and personal value in examining God and spirituality, even if you aren't religious or theistic.

>>6970197
>lacking transcendental meaning => lacking constructed meaning, therefore art, music, literature, (anything finite), is therefore worthless and equivalent to a bug crawling on the ground

lel

>>6970197
>once you are dead, you are dead forever. that is what you believe?
yep
>if so, do you feel you have any more purpose than a bug crawling on the ground?
nope

>>6970200
there's nothing inherently historical OR literary in "god and spirituality"

unless you're referring to the bible in which case:
>historical
not really since the events are made up or are borrowed from other myths (that are also probably made up)
>literary
outside of a few books, the bible's verse is poorly written.
>personal value
the only valid point. however if you gain personal value from worshiping god then you probably don't have a lot of self-worth to begin with and you are just trying to cover up some deep-seated personal issues with religious nonsense.

>>6970213
no, they have a place in this world. but relative worth is different. bugs are an essential part of life, but is OP somehow more essential? that was the question. Usually being egotistical will posit your being over that which there is a million of

Is a loss of a human more than a loss of an ant? I think there is more potential for loss. imagine everything a single human has brought, Einstein for example, what if he were killed before revolutionizing science

>>6970214
Do you believe there is anything past cause and effect in universal, materialist terms?

>>6970200

*tips corona*

>>6970232
how about you just make your point and get to the aquinas shitposting already?

>>6970214
>there's nothing inherently historical OR literary in "god and spirituality"

How is it you can believe this? Do you not believe that ideas change the course of history? Do not think it important to understand and place the religious symbolism present in the majority of literary works? These studies do not preclude atheism.

Historically, religion has been an important tool. The same people who say that religion is a cause of war and strife CANNOT be the same people who say religion is not a part of history. Religion as know it stems from a complicated cauldron of ideas - political, ethical, metaphysical systems - that must be probed and researched as much as any other event of humanity.

Spirituality in abstract is also the wellspring of philosophy, which itself is the mother of all sciences.

Literally, religion has been the subject of much apology and criticism, to the extent that it's necessary to have a basic understanding of Christianity in order to understand some of the greatest works within Western literature. Not just scriptures and commentaries on scriptures, but modern works of art as well.

Personal value is possibly the weakest of these values, and yet it is the only one you call valid. I have no idea how one comes to hold such an opinion. The fact that you think a concept's historical value is tied to whether it is "made up" or not rather than its efficacy also betrays your absurdity. So does the fact that you think literary merit is tied to how well a thing is written.

>>6970247
This isn't philosophy, this is psychoanalysis

your type, seems suspiciously resentful of a certain, "wider scope"

>>6970232

What if you are just interested in the suchness of life; a perspective of life that is neither reduced to a materialism nor a religious Platonism that utilizes 'God' as a ground for all events.

>>6970232

>unironically using the word 'materialist'

Aquinasfag detected

>>6970259
you'd rather me use the word "scientific"?

"matter"? physical "stuff" that has been flying around in space and moving according to "laws" that are built into the universe itself? ok

>>>/x/

>>6970259
not necessarily, could just as easily be an /x/fag obsessed with muh astral planes

>>6970257
because the suchness of life is all mystery

the origin of my being is much too crucial, as well as the destination. I cannot help but fathom the ultimate future that awaits, just as someone in a car may listen to music to pass the time, but is ultimately using transportation to arrive somewhere else

>>6970253
we're not talking about religion in terms of books written about it. we're talking about the ideas behind them.

>>6970151
Damn it OP, this thread is gonna be shit because you activated a bunch of people's aspie mode. I'm not even gonna read it

>>6970279
>i call myself a christian because i idiotically associate atheism with a website i don't like

>>6970266

No, I'd rather have you use words that are actually used in physics today, since you're talking about things in physics.

Being an aquinasfag however, you're probably too stupid for that

>>6970281
Some of us are unironic Christians, you know.

>>6970289
that's even worse than being an ironic christian

>>6970281

>>6970285
I'm just astounded any being could exist that is not questioning of its own origins

or not even the least skeptical of its current state of "ape".

yes you are an ape.

is it weird? no you think, not weird at all, that's just what I am.

and I'm here to tell you that yes, its fucking weird as it could be, and there is nothing "physics" throws at me that will make it any less unbelievable, or more fucking explainable

>>6970270

I just don't see life as equitable to a analogy such that I can say, there is a destination and what I am doing is merely listening to music. I would like to preserve the mystery by precisely allowing it be what it is, an intimate moment with a lover, the smile of a child, the rain that pours and runs down my skin, the smell of fire on a starry night, the screams and pains of a loved one succumbing to cancer, the birth of a child, the pulsation of blood throughout my body as I breathe and live. I don't need to appeal to science nor religion in order to 'make' sense of them. I would prefer to leave these moments to 'speak' for themselves. Unadulterated silence.

>>6970273
The ideas behind religions are indicative of political, social, and ethical climates.
Dawkins, who proposes selfish gene theory and uses it as an argument for the emptiness of human life, going so far as to make this hollow existence and propagation of mindless genes the "good" of Being, has so utterly failed in the area of ideas that one concerned solely with the worth and impact of ideas has no choice but to run for spirituality.

>>6970301
because we all know that physics is just more fucking apes writing on scraps of paper with their ape brains and shouting at each other about why this or that does this or that when they just DO IT and the apes scratch their hairy heads as they take a shit on planet earth befuddled as all fuck

>>6970289

>becoming unironically Christian
>because someone posted a picture of an unattractive person, with the message basically being 'if you disagree with Christianity, you will never get any pussy'
>on top of it all, Christianity is a religion that utterly dispises sexuality and sleeping around
>which means that on 4chan, Christianity as an ideology is promoted by the very thing the ideology itself rejects

And this is why no one thinks being unironically Christian on 4chan is a good thing

>>6970302
I can understand, but to preserve the mystery, I can't see it remaining so forever, because as amazing those things may be, some things happen a million times, and they may grow less amazing as they continue to repeat over and over. at least, many things become dull, boring, we begin to live for those few "sacred" few moments that we can find but often grow ever more scarce

>>6970155
Schools, not madrasas.

>>6970159
>Dawkins knows shit about Middle Earth lore
Okay.


OH NO, THE TAPPERS ARE HERE. RUN!

>>6970302
but yes
>allowing it be what it is
is ultimately the only option
and maybe, that's all it is meant to be

>>6970318
things are not as solid as they seem

>>6970301

>I'm just astounded any being could exist that is not questioning of its own origins

And I'm astounded at people who believe that they've already found all the answers to these questions in books filled with thousand year old stories, which they concluded cannot be incomplete and cannot be wrong in any way shape and form. I'm also astounded at the mental gymnastics they will use to justify the 'truth' of these stories, even if the evidence of the opposite is piling up and becomes increasingly difficult to ignore, such as the fact that we never find actual evidence for any of the claims they make

>>6970318
i'd like to see more feminist works being read in schools as a whole. even in my AP history class in high school, the feminist movement was just a couple paragraphs in the textbook. none of my literature classes dealt with it either.

>>6970317

Thanks for the points anon, cheers for the 'sacred' moments.

>>6970273
Nothing I said was solely about books. Everything there has to do with ideas.

>>6970357
>literary
>not solely about books

>>6970364

>>6970318
>THE HAT TIPPERS
It really shows how much I put into a post like this. (Watching a bio-doc on Sebastiao Salgado)

>>6970323
That what she said

>>6970339
I'm sure there's little to nothing being taught all wrong in schools. Well, never having gone I can't be sure, but it seems pretty evident from what I've seen.

>>6970339
He's trying to get in butterflys pants lol

>>6970452
i'm just happy to see another "name"friend on here with non-/pol/ views since most everywhere else i go on this website is filled with stormfront retardation

>>6970178
I think it's just like before you were born

>>6972662
thats the stupidest thing in this thread, excluding devitts posts.

The Bible
The Divine Comedy
Paradise Lost
The Brothers Karamazov

With such good education we would'nt have /leftypol/ shitposting on /lit/.

Homer and the Greek playwrights. That's it, nothing more.

My diary tbh

>>6972981
>all that religious shit
So Christians wrote like 4 books during the dark ages? Compare that to the amount wrote since science came along then realise how trite and banal christianity is.

>>6973034
>I don't know shit about history

>>6973034
well yeah, people didnt need to write fancy stories to keep themselves entertained in the middle ages, they did real philosophy, which was as systematic as the other sciences.

Then Descartes came and said "doubt everthin lmoa"

>>6973047
Ignore the tripfag, he is just an uninsightful atheist.

>>6973034
More than just 4 books, mate.

>>6970151
ITT: unfalsifiable nonsense

Dawkins is a shit

>>6973034
Christianity helped science because it allowed the focus to shift to pragmatical science instead of revolutionary science. The real danger to science is metaphysical contention.

Metaphysical paradigms are arbitrary and have no truth-value (at the very least are unfalsifiable), they serve to give meaningful scientific pursuits a ground of language and thinking to stand on.

See Kuhn (Structure of scientific revolutions) and, more importatntly, Lakatos.

>>6970151

>>6970318

there is literally no justification for not reading the bible

>>6973034

holy shit you're a retard

>>>/r9k/

>>6972944
Why?

>>6973034
>who perpetuated the study of ancient works
>thanks to whom do we understand Latin today
>what is pre-1800 philosophy
>who were the only full-time intellectuals in the Middle Ages
>who wrote book copies
>who made the first >translations
>who patronized the first universities

>>6973060
it's not even me

it's some retard impersonating me lmao

u have to wonder what went so wrong in his life that he has to impersonate someone instead of coming up w/ his own identity

>>6973260
>le trendy reactionary
nice

>>6973256
>Retarded.
>Comatose.
>Speak a language it has not been translated into.
>Recognize it as a historical document pushing morals which are either outdated (no shellfish!) or obvious (don't kill ppl), and do not take particular interest in its study, therefore.

Pick one.

>>6973486
>>Speak a language it has not been translated into.
No such thing in the civilised world.
>Retarded.
>Comatose.
So are we. It's still the base for our civilisation.
>>Recognize it as a historical document pushing morals which are either outdated (no shellfish!) or obvious (don't kill ppl), and do not take particular interest in its study, therefore.
now this might be true
t.atheist

>>6970339
There's a very good reason for that. Most feminists don't even read feminist literature, or know feminist history. If they don't take interest in it, how can you expect a normal high school student to?

>>6972981
You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Add the Illiad to that list and it's perfect.

>>6973551
>You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

>>6973567
Not as cringy as half the stuff you've said in this thread.

Moby Dick
Revolutionary Road
Brothers Kamazov
1984
Don Quixote
The Sound and the Fury
Ulysses
The Sun Also Rises
Iliad/Odyssey
The Little Prince

>>6973567
Someone needs to brush up on their meme history.

I'm gonna give you all some advice since I think u need it.
>don't engage with tripshits