/lit/ - Literature

I liked the part where they all eat him after he dies.

>HEINLEIN THREAD

Fuck yes, I am all over this. I'm reading a collection of his books right now on my iPhone. I'm at Starship Troopers, right now. This one is next up, I'll be sure to saturate myself entirely and turn off the critiqueing voice in my head.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PEOPLE WHEN YOU START THESE THREADS START OFF WITH WHAT YOU THINK WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING, ANYTHING AT ALL TO BEGIN THE DISCUSSIONS _WITH_ WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU THINKING TO START THREADS LIKE THESE AND EXPECT EVERYONE ELSE TO FILL THE VOID THAT IS YOUR LACK OF ABILITY TO PRESENT CONCEPTS OR EVEN EXPRESS YOUR OWN FUCKING FEELINGS.

It's a book about a free-love, cannibalistic cult that forms around a man who believes he's a Martian.

>>822990

You/re making me consider pausing ST and moving onto this instead. There isn't a single thing I dislike about that post.

>>822998

It was probably his best book after Job: A Comedy of Justice. But I haven't read anything by him since I was a teenager.

>>822979
Ok, OP here and I apologize, this guy is right.

This story changed a few of my views on life, especially my religious beliefs. I was a devout Atheist all of high school, but the concepts put forth in the book actually made the idea of a "higher being" make sense to me.

>>822990
Believe is the wrong term.
He was born and raised on mars so by upbringing he is a martian of human descent.

>>823012

...Really? Are you trolling?

>>823019
No sir, completely serious.
The idea of "Thou art God" makes more sense to me than a seperate entity acting as an external force.

>>823012
Why, because you can turn stuff sideways into another dimension? Because you can make a woman's clothes disappear just by thinking them off? Because you want to be a smarmy Martian televangelist guy?

>>822979
Your text is loud and irritating.

>>823054

He's got Cruise Control on.

>>823062
Good one, Arc. Thanks for adding something useful to this thread.

>>823039

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by a "higher being," then.

>>823071

If that's blowing his mind, wait until he gets into Carl Sagan.

'Pale Blue Dot' is forever one of my favorite books.

>>823045
no. That's retarded.
I'm raised as both Christian and Catholic and rejected both schools of thought because I didn't see that either of them worked like they should, and then factoring the multitude of other religions in the world, many of which claim to be the "true" religion I just got fed up and distanced myself from it.
One of the concepts put forth in "Stranger" is that all religions are the correct one because god isn't a destination, it's internal and self contained, so it doesn't matter the path taken, you're already there.

>>823082

>both Christian and Catholic

>>823082
Fair enough. You might also enjoy some works with similar messages, like Siddhartha.

>>823090
Sounds a bit redundant but there are some differences between the two.

>>823098

durrrrrr

>>823098

Is that so now?

>>823098
We're being trolled, guys. This guy doesn't know the whole "squares and rectangles" thing.

I've been meaning to read this book for years. I believe I started it once when I was a teen or preteen and do remember the word "grok" from it but not much else.

I like the message in it, however, I disagree with most of the hippies who modeled their life after this book. I think the end point is that while an unjealous semi-socialist society based on the concept of free love and open understanding are the ideal society the fact is that they can't be achieved due to human nature that is in nearly all ways at odds with it and that only individuals completely separate from modern society could ever even aspire to that.

So basically its a more free lovin' cannibalistic version of Utopia.

>>823127
Grok was an interesting word.... from what I understood it meant something more than just understanding, but recognition and acceptance as well.

>>823127
I was the same way but I was really glad when I did. Regardless of the trolls it has some good points about humanity and religion.

>>823131
Exactly.

This is possibly my favorite sci-fi novel. I can't get enough of it.

>>823136
Grok-Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthly assumptions) as color means to a blind man.

Pretty much to study something so much that you accept it and understand it as a part of yourself.

Follows the theme in the book of an interconnectedness between all creatures.

>>823136

When you grok something, it becomes a part of you. You're irrevocably altered to your very core.

That's why grokking people is such a profound spiritual experience.

>>823151
You talk about it like you've done it.

Which is silly.

>>823148
>>823151
I do not fully Grok. Waiting is.

I really enjoyed the whole story, but the underlying philosophy was a bit too out there for me. As much as I liked this, I liked Starship Troopers better.

>>823165

Starship Troopers is an excellent book, and I'm enjoying it. Rico is going through some rigorous training. It's thrilling. The bootcamp is a truly daunting place.

I have had a bellyful of mil-sci-fi, though. I could use a palate cleanser. Stranger might help.

Then I'll return to ST.

>>823172
The only issue I have with the book is I can't see them sweet sweet titties.

On a serious note: The tits in that movie were the first tits of many that I saw in my life.

What were the first boobies /lit/ ever saw?

>>823181
Your mom's.

>>823181
The internet way back when downloading a shitty small picture took like 2 hours...thanks dad for downloading some of the first porn on the internet

>>823185
ME TOO

>>823181

In the book, Dizzie's a man... so yeah.

>>823181
Old penthouse. Stayed under my bed for years.

>>823181
My stepsister. I was 5, she was 19.

>>823222
Hot.

Also what happened to discussing this book?

Oh yeah boobies!

>>823192
...is that the guy from the I'm on a boat or whatever from saturday night live?

>>823284
yes.

Best Christ analogy ever? Yes, I think so. It's an excellent commentary on the inevitable downfall of various communes/absolute freedom groups once they move beyond a small group of handpicked people and the inhuman aspects of living without personal boundaries. I also love how he doesn't reject money outright like hippies love to, but rather recognizes the brilliance of the concept.

Its a book about being a horrific misogynist and justifying it because all the female characters are written to enjoy being treated as inferior beings because, guess what? The author is a raging misogynist. Go figure. Grow up, talk to girls, read more books, stop wanting a weak sexual partner you can control because you are controlled by others.

ps: If grok is to come into contact with a concept/anything that you then understand and irrevocably are changed by internally/externally, then all thought/experience is to grok and you don't need a made up word for it.

Fucking hate this book.

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>>823012
Really? My dad was raised Catholic and this book helped push him into his decision to become an atheist.
How queer.

>>823824
Because there are never any women in the world who actually identify with or feel the same as characters written in a book. That's just preposterous! Yes the book is vaguely sexist, but that's hardly surprising considering the dominant views of the era Heinlein grew up in. I'm not saying it's right but it's hardly the entire premise of the book. And let's completely ignore the power the female characters hold over Jubal, Mike and Ben, whilst that power is BASED in traditional female areas it is again merely the starting point of the characters. Not the entirety.

And you're assuming that the word grok merely means to understand and be changed by something. It means much more than that and it's something that is hardly identifiable in human understanding. And assuming that all thought/experience changes us irrevocably is inaccurate. Not every experience we have changes us, even less in that it is irrevocable. And having a word that encapsulates a phrase, feeling or piece of knowledge is now stupid? Does that make words in languages other than English silly for being made up by that language? Schadenfreude for example?

Hate the book as much as you like, but try reading it again without your head stuck up your arse.

>>823870

There is a massive difference between being a product of a time period, and reveling in the advantages a time period gives over others. Its fairly clear in this book, and many of Heinlein's other books, that he was of the later category. I would not say the female characters had no power or agency, no one ever has no power or agency, but that their power and agency was given at the permission of the male characters is repugnant, and that people want to be like that, is even more repugnant.

So... how are you able to understand what grok means to explain it? And how are you to know that you are not changed by an experience? And if you have a word for an unexplainable concept then it is a nonsense word, which is fine, but call it what it is.

New thought, I don't hate the book so much as the people who defend it.