/lit/ - Literature

Nothing is really going to change, the establishment will keep being powerful and controlling the masses as usual.

>>9860475
What's going to happen? Women still dominate HR departments, and the pseudoscientific notion of gender being socially constructed is still the dominant view among academics. I don't see those two things changing any time soon.

It would be really good if things changed, but Taleb should be very aware of the cretins that flock to him. He should remain independent and not allign himself with the likes of Stefan Molyneux, Mike Cernovich and Paul Joseph Watson and so on. He is increasingly retweeting this filth. Maybe they are the only ones who dare to speak out, but they are antithetical to Taleb's overall philosophy.

Or maybe Taleb doesn't think so and I'm wrong. I do think he is absolutely right to speak out on certain issues, and he should, like he always did. But for me he is losing some of his credibility by alligning himself with countercultural journos who are just as full of bullshit as your typical journo.

>>9860475
>to crumble
>i mean, to crumble
...boy

>>9860681
foghorn.. easy on the boys

>>9860475
He's pretty deluded if he thinks a short article complaining about political correctness following a twitter argument is going to change literally anything

>>9860759
We'll see.

>>9860759
It is the act of defiance itself, not necessarily its nature, that inspires hope.

>>9860766
People have been complaining about political correctness since like the 80's. one article from a not terribly well known scholar won't change anything.

>>9860775
WE
WILL
SEE

>>9860780
You can get your hopes up for nothing, I don't really care but it seems blatantly obvious that this is just a drop in the ocean

He's kinda painted himself into a corner. The ability to tweet inflammatory things is a sign of his antifragility. So he now tied to everything he says on twitter lest back-pedalling is accused of fragility

>>9860796
we'll see

>>9860475
Talebs writing style is somehow becoming even more confusing instead of less. I really wish he'd put some more circumspection into his writing process. I think he'd have a lot more readers, or at the very least I wouldn't have to preface my recommendations of his books with a warning.

>>9860833
t. editor
fragalista too

>>9860759
Tho he has a decent track record of predicting the future (failure rate of <100% which is better than 99% of people)

>>9860842
Perhaps, but people have been complaining about PC shit and predicting its end for years, and that makes me inherently skeptical towards someone who's doing the same. The whole idea that it's an entirely imposed idea and that just a single well timed rebellion will throw it off seems silly to me.

>>9860483
Nigga shut your bitchass mouth or man up and do something about it

>>9860692

>>9860759

I don't think he is talking about his article changing things, more like the response to said article is indicative of a change occurring

>>9860759
What article?

>>9861145
What response?

Was at my job today when something started to crumble all around me. Had no idea what was going on until I read this tweet. Still don't.

>>9860840
t. owner of a hidden option at someone else's expense

>>9860475
>starting to crumble.
>I mean, to crumble.
???

What is this about?

>>9860681
foghorn... easy on the alt right

>>9860857
Given Taleb's own ideas, I think he is implying that large numbers of people are no longer buying in to the studies and theories that academia has been putting out, and which businesses have been implementing, and that includes large numbers of people who are part of those institutions (students and employees). And the very hostile reaction to people who question whether these ideas and policies are solidly grounded, or even desirable outside of the spaces that they originated in, suggests that the general "buy-in" for these ideas is very fragile right now. When you have to start adopting a "we will fire people who question company policy and philosophy" policy, there's definite trouble brewing within the ranks, not to mention morale issues.

>>9860475
Capitalism itself is racist.

>>9860857
It will fall in the next 30 years as a natural effect of the climate change.

link to his article?

>>9862711
I'm too young to say this with certainty but I don't really see any sea change in general acceptance of the current narrative. I can't really think of anything that would indicate a narrative shift that's occurred recently

>>9862739
Hard to see change when you get your career destroyed if you publicly speak out against it.

the sentences of this actual article were so poorly structured, and the article itself was nearly nonsense. I can't believe it was allowed to be published on their site.

>>9862770
That's sorta what I've been saying

>>9860490
>pseudoscientific notion of gender being socially constructed

"Gender" literally means manifestation of sex in cultural expression. If a man existed alone in the world, he would not think of himself as male despite being sexually male. The ego recognizes gender identity from differentiation. It literally could not exist if not socially.

Holy shit this board is trash in the summer.

>>9860519
>Stefan Molyneux, Mike Cernovich and Paul Joseph Watson
holy shit

>>9860475
saw this earlier, its cringecore

>>9862940
Gender is equivalent to sex and both are assigned by God. Gender theory is bunk.

>>9862940
>If you run this thought experiment which has no relevance to reality then it shows that men can cut their dicks off and become women

Amazing

>>9862711
Nice observation.

>>9862958

>Gender is equivalent to sex

Kek. What about intersex people, wiseguy? Don't weasel out by saying that they are a trivial abnormality. What set of gender expressions did God assign them to?

>Gender theory

Kekk. Using gender to mean what the word denotes is not a "theory." Care to provide me with another word that refers to cultural expression of sex?

>>9860475
>to crumble
>i mean, to crumble
Unironically what did he mean by this?
This is like when he said stochastaphob tawkers.

>>9862968
>If you run this thought experiment which has no relevance to reality

You don't "run" a thought experiment. What do you disagree with specifically. Are you literally arguing against thought experiments in general? Identity is necessarily intersubjective and therefore sexual self-perception is social. Wtf do you not understand?

>men can cut their dicks off and become women

I literally mentioned nothing about transsexuals in my post. I simply maintained that "gender" is a useful term to distinguish biological sex and cultural sexual expression and identity. Your brain is wired to fire off about infantile, protozoan memes rather than to learn or discuss things honestly.

>>9862991
>>9860681
>>9861585
it's a pretty conventional way to just say something emphatically

>>9862940
Are you fucking serious? Yes, men wouldn't perceive themselves as male if they were hats. Human beings are a sexually dimorphic species. Existing in the world is predicated on existing alongside women; you can't separate those social conditions from our biology.

>>9862940
>"Gender" literally means manifestation of sex in cultural expression
First I've heard of it. I don't trust anyone who tries to shove a definition down my throat without my consent, though.

>>9863018
What is "existing alongside women"?

>>9863018

>you can't separate those social conditions from our biology.

You very easily can. I just did a couple of minutes ago.

>Existing in the world is predicated on existing alongside women.

Possibly. I find that a little dubious. However, you can consider the difference between sex and gender in the way that they have been given a demarcation by academia, yes? The fact that you may think they are inextricable is not relevant.

>>9863127
It's a distinction that doesn't matter when it comes to my point, which is that "femaleness," while hard to define, isn't something constructed socially in relation to men, it's something that has a biological basis and served an evolutionary function. Culture doesn't erase the inherent psychology we developed over the course of the last couple hundred thousand years.

>>9862717
And that's okay

>>9862940
The idea that sex and gender are easily separable is a ridiculous idea. Masculinity and femininity are tied to the body. Feminists before Butler understood and gloried in that fact.

What the fuck is it with this attempt to ignore bodies?

>>9860759
Hopefully it's enough to make the right realize that big business isn't their friend.

>>9862940
If you apply that standard to everything, all forms of differentiation are societal constructs. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say that, at that point, it's not a useful way to define the term if we want to differentiate between it and biological constructs.

>>9863202
It's conducive to the advancement of post-industrial capitalism. That's precisely it's the endorsed ideology of out times.

>>9863181
>inherent psychology

Wow very smart of you. Evolutionary biology is so exact and not at all the actual pseudoscience

>>9863695
>every species behavior is altered by their evolutionary environment except humans

>>9863487
It's going to be some SHIT when enough Christians (and Buddhists and Hindus I guess) become anti-capitalist. Muslims are already there, what if other religions start joining in? There's already an anti-capitalist pope.

>>9863797
>There's already an anti-capitalist pope.
And it isn't a coincidence that he's reaffirmed the church's opposition to gender theory. Who would have thought the the fucking pope would have to save us from developments in capitalism enabled by a Berkeley professor?

>>9863771
>gender is behavior

now you're following, senpai

>>9863881
When capitalism belches and rolls over and dies the Church is going to be waiting for the survivors with food and blankets and the Rosary.

>>9862647

recent swarm of frogs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0n0Et8aI3s

>>9863920
only to start anew with instant slaves

>>9862977
>another word that refers to cultural expression of sex
Masculinity, feminity. The dirty trick is to use one word instead of these two, to mix them up and suppress them.

>>9862958
No such theory, obvious reality and what the word has meant for hundreds of years in various languages.

>sex
Purely biological, also means those that have themselves altered diverge into something not quite male or female. Though genetically they're male/female.

>gender
Characteristics and role assigned to each sex in a given culture. Derives from sex but is cultural and social, not biological.

These distinctions and more are necessary to accurately speak of the topic, what is so hard to understand?

>>9863967
>These distinctions and more are necessary to accurately speak of the topic, what is so hard to understand?
Because what is referred to as gender flows directly from sex sex and does not exist outside of it. Giving it special attention because it exists socially rather than physically is a diversion that exists for no reason other than to push agendas. This discourse is a sham, and it's so malicious that its advocates should be locked away.

>>9863977
t. 4chan autodidact

>>9864008
Not even. I'm just a radical anti-intellectual.

>>9863127
You can't just state a paradox and then strut around like an inflated clock when an answer doesn't suit you

>>9863967
Your error is the denial that gender has any biological basis. Biological and social influence are not mutually exclusive.

>>9863127
Not the same guy.
You post a paradox then strut around like a cock as if you posted some sort of ground breaking remark?
Please say your just baiting.

>>9863967

You can't undo centuries of thought culminating into precisely what you deny so hard: relations among things such as sex and gender are complex and cannot be linearly composed by parts. You're claiming the culture exists without the people and that people can exist without creating a culture. An exquisite lie, which would mean we could separately comprehend both and them simply compose our understanding, but a lie will remain a lie.

Also, if cheese derives from milk can it ever not be a dairy product? Even your phrasing seems to fail in unbinding gender (and, more generally, the whole of culture) from the people, hence also from their biological features (as well as social ones, of course).

>>9862940
There is a 99.7% correlation between sex and gender. Unless you come out of gender studies, where the brainwashed will argue that their indoctrination is legitimate.

>>9864086
How did you arrive at that number?

How detached from reality does one have to be in order to believe that "gender is a social construct". You are either a man or a woman. How and why did we get to the point where this simple truth of life is denied? The world has gone mad.

>>9862940
Oh god, cringe.

The point is that the man would still act and think and feel in more in what we think typically masculine ways (assuming he's an average man or somewhere in the range of averageness). The same way a female existing alone, if she's an average female with average female hormones, would act and think and feel in more typically feminine ways.

Parts of gender are indeed socially constructed (for instance, the idea that blue and less bright colors are colors for men/boys, and colors that are overly bright or gaudy or neon, and the colors purple and pink, are for girls), but there are also definite biological differences and tendencies in the way men will typically think, act, and feel, and the way women will think, act, and feel. It's easy enough to admit, say, that pink being a girly color is something socially engrained into us and a part of the social aspect of gender; but when you say that psychological gender differentiation is entirely social and biological, you begin to walk off into loony-land.

>>9864188
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiresias
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performativity

>>9860759
'poliical correctness' is white dude for 'empathy and basic human decency'

>>9864241
Tiresias is a myth like many expressing the idea of androgyny/union of opposing principles.

Intersex is a very rare biological phenomenon.

Performativity is a profound concept and applies to more than just gender, as I see it. You can argue there are parts of gender roles that aren't innate to people but that people simply perform in order to create an imaginary identity society has constructed for them relating to their gender roles (for instance, Americans are so used to calling pink a girly color that, even though it's not inherently girly, it's become part of the act; a man can't wear pink without on some level being aware that "I'm breaking societal norms by wearing pink!" and a girl without thinking "i'm fulfilling my role by wearing a girly color!"), but there are also psychological differences widespread throughout all known cultures due to biology, in which generally women are more passive and men more active.

>>9864248
t. nigger

>>9864250
im not a sjw and obviously i recognize what generally are the differences between men and women, in stature and in thought; but this "dude men and women lmao" droning from the_donald types is overly reductive and totally unproductive.

>>9864248
political correctness is a modern institutional invention, never before seen in history. and yet empathy and "basic human decency", whatever that may mean in all of its subjectivity, has been around for as long as man. it is entirely wrong to conflate the two. political correctness, and the defiance of it, is a tool utilizing what may be considered empathy. but empathy itself is not a tool. so it is different.

>>9860692
kekkles

>>9862711
>And the very hostile reaction to people who question whether these ideas and policies are solidly grounded, or even desirable outside of the spaces that they originated in, suggests that the general "buy-in" for these ideas is very fragile right now. When you have to start adopting a "we will fire people who question company policy and philosophy" policy, there's definite trouble brewing within the ranks, not to mention morale issues.

You and the writer in OP are completely misreading why he was fired. Google management isn't trying to tamp down their predominantly alt-right cis-male employee ranks through censorship and intimidation. They are responding to the reaction from their predominantly center and left-of-center employees against Damore's memo.

Not only generally is the reaction coming from other employees and not management, but more specifically Damore has been fired due to legal reasoning: management has more to fear from other employees bringing workplace discrimination suits against Google if they are in any way seen as endorsing Damore's opinion, then from Damore in a wrongful termination suit.

What is crumbling here other than Damore's career prospects?

The guy is (((their))) planted psy-op to discredit the opposition, one look at him should make that clear.

>>9864314
how does it discredit the opposition

his memo is pretty reasonable

>>9864318
>his memo is pretty reasonable
>implying

>>9864267
>has been around for as long as man
women, PoC and Queers would beg to disagree

>>9864348
you're a silly person

>>9864318

It is certainly reasonably written, in a way many reactions to it are not.

As for whether it is reasonable to imply your company should be sorting male employees into leading, core, lucrative roles and sorting females into supportive, peripheral, less lucrative roles in order to improve efficiency and cohesion...

>>9864263
>acknowledging that gender = sex and that you are either a man or a woman makes you a "the_donald type"
Neck yourself.

>>9860692
>>9862657
can someone explain this meme to me please

>>9864366
what else would you have google do? nobody was going to work with the guy after he wrote a memo full of pseudoscience justifications for his female coworkers' alleged inferiority. muh freeze peach doesn't mean freedom from consequences, you goobergater

>>9864370
I didn't read that part. From what I saw he was basically explaining the reason for why women are a minority in tech. There are biological differences between men and women, some of which are mental and in where their interests lay.

The other irony is that he was alerting to the increased ideological intolerance, where people are fired for their beliefs.

>>9864390
Not fire him. Easy question.

And the science is well founded. There are biological differences between the sexes.

>>9864390

>pseudo science
>actual scientist say it was accurate

http://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists-respond/

But then what do you expect when internet discourse is dominated by "critiquers" and humanitards who think huge words and snark are the defining characteristics of intelligence. They come across a Harvard Biology PhD and they can't understand a thing.

It's ok, go back to jerking off over "transcendental" continental philosophy

>>9860475
apple crumble mah man
there's plenny to go around nasism's cookin up a FEAST

>>9864397
'actual scientists' a hundred years ago would have told you jews are naturally scheming and unreliable due to phrenology. we can't give no quarter to fascism or fascists. 'diversity of opinion'' is a bullshit cynical fascist argument made by people who only care about freedom of opinion when it's their opinion

>>9864391
>I didn't read that part. From what I saw he was basically explaining the reason for why women are a minority in tech.

No, he was explaining the reason why women would and should be a minority in tech. If you affix the reason being primarily in biology you have made it functionally unsolvable.

>>9864407
why is muh women in tech considered a social problem worthy of addressing?

>>9864406
I support your right to post these inane ramblings. It serves as a great example of what not to do.

>>9864115
University of Toronto statistics.

>>9864407
Not him, but doesn't that solve the problem by pointing to evidence which suggests that no problem exists? If your question is "why are women not 50% of tech workers" and you will not accept any answer other than "women want to be at least half of tech workers, but discrimination and bias keeps them out", you're not really asking a question in good faith or doing anything seriously resembling research; instead, you're starting from a normative conclusion that "women need to be at least 50% of tech workers".

>>9864410
I don't know how to answer that, other than that Damore and others in the tech field consider it a problem worthy of addressing.

My understanding is, its a societal problem if lucrative careers in powerful industries such as software define themselves so that only men can do them. This allows power and influence to accrue to one sex or the other instead of there being social balance.

And that its a business problem when companies define themselves in such a way that limits diversity, as they will have more trouble serving a diverse customer base. Google wants to serve every customer in the world with their software, so employing a balance of everybody in the world is a rational business decision.

Taleb might be a genius mathematician or statistician, but man he seems like a whiny cunt

>>9864430
Both he and beard were acting incredibly childish on twitter

what memo ?

>>9860681
kek, what is it with this place and loony tunes.

>>9864297
Not him, but doesn't that legal argument undercut Google's rationale for firing him?They said they fired him for violating their Code of Conduct, but it's clear that they are instead firing him because employees are angry about the memo and want him fired. When you terminate for cause, you need to actually be firing someone for the cause you are stating, otherwise it's a pretext and you open yourself up to a wrongful termination suit. Firing someone and saying "we were worried about Title VII hostile environment claims" doesn't insulate a termination decision from legal scrutiny when that termination is done for cause, even with at-will contracts. Also, I'm not aware of a Title VII case where talking about differences between men and women in terms of statistics and so on was deemed to create a "hostile environment"; the bar for that is usually fairly high, although I know the boundaries can be fuzzy. Assuming that Google's employment law department is familiar with this and is aware that any potential harassment claim another employee would bring would much more than likely be dismissed, then the "protecting ourselves from a title VII claim" rationale crumbles and appears as a pretext for firing someone just because the other employees hate him.

>>9864422
I won't address the meat of your posts other than to say your skepticism is fair. I am not asking questions in good faith or conducting research. I have no technical bone to pick with many of Damore's points. I said he was reasonable and that his points were plausible.

My basis for analyzing this situation is that Damore himself is also not asking questions or presenting a case in good faith. The last 100 years or so of economic history is lousy with examples of high-status fields women have entered that they theoretically shouldn't have been able to do biologically, such as becoming professors and doctors. Hence I view the biological argument, no matter how plausible, as essentially being reflexively advanced by high-status, high-compensation workers who do not want to make reforms to their field that will likely result in increased competition for spots and potentially lower status and compensation, alongside the natural resistance to change that comes from anybody who's done something a certain way for awhile.

Basically I believe what Damore and others say isn't a dispassionate search for the truth, but is an argument as to why they and other like them should have first dibs on what they want, and why others should be shunted almost automatically into roles that support and enhance their occupation and lifestyle. "Women should be nurses, not doctors."

What really are the odds that Damore et al are right, that even with significant changes, women won't ever be able to program competently? This is an industry that sources a staggering amount of copy-and-paste code from barely-trained overseas outsourcing mills, after all.

>>9864459
All human preferences and abilities are artificial social constructs, only the cybernetic surveillance managerial capitalist machine is real. It is progress itself. It should and will assimilate everything.

>>9864450
>They said they fired him for violating their Code of Conduct, but it's clear that they are instead firing him because employees are angry about the memo and want him fired. When you terminate for cause, you need to actually be firing someone for the cause you are stating, otherwise it's a pretext and you open yourself up to a wrongful termination suit.

That claim - whether he can be fired for cause under their Code of Conduct, alongside the larger issues of whether this is a fireable offense or this is wrongful termination - will be tested in court, or (more likely) settled out of it. IANAL so it's not at all clear to me what the outcome will be.

But also, violating the employee Code of Conduct, other employees being mad at your behavior, AND violating Title VII hostile environment claims are not mutually exclusive. It is very possible to have all three. Or to put it another way, just because employees are mad and could threaten discrimination suits DOESN'T mean Damore HASN'T violated the Code of Conduct.

>>9864459
>Basically I believe what Damore and others say isn't a dispassionate search for the truth, but is an argument as to why they and other like them should have first dibs on what they want, and why others should be shunted almost automatically into roles that support and enhance their occupation and lifestyle. "Women should be nurses, not doctors."

I agree that the memo writer was not really acting in a purely dispassionate manner, but isn't Google just doing the same? If both sides are arguing from their assumed conclusions, then the best way to solve that politically is to open up the debate and reach some kind of consensus that makes each side at least somewhat happy. The alternative is for one side is to eliminate the other side from the community, which seems to be Google's plan here; this shouldn't be surprising given that Google is a corporation with all the hierarchy going along with that, but it is disappointing coming from a company that founded itself on openness to ideas. Although maybe that's just what happens as companies become bigger and more entrenched.

>>9860483
The Forty Days of Kengir, my friend

>>9864388
Elmer.... easy on the questions

>>9864406
this is satire, right?

>>9864482
You don't debate with fascists. Specially in the age of trump and creeping fascism, people are in danger. Alt fighters like Damore are bitter they no longer get the privileges they used to and want to dehumanise the people they blame for their failures. No pasaran!

>>9864501
prove they're fascists first

>>9864482
>I agree that the memo writer was not really acting in a purely dispassionate manner, but isn't Google just doing the same?

I would never accuse Google of not acting in its own interests, that's true. My disagreement with Damore's position isn't a endorsement of Google firing him.

>>9864501
Stop LARPing as a Soviet stoolie. It's remarkably cringe-inducing.

>>9860519
>but they are antithetical to Taleb's overall philosophy.
They aren't antithetical to his bank account

>>9864479
>Or to put it another way, just because employees are mad and could threaten discrimination suits DOESN'T mean Damore HASN'T violated the Code of Conduct.

You're absolutely right, but if Code of Conduct provisions are being selectively enforced, to be used in situations when someone says "I hate this person and want them gone", but then other violations are ignored or handled with a slap on the wrist, then that's a pretext (not to mention a breach of contract). There are plenty of cases where people fired under at-will contracts won wrongful termination suits where they were fired for cause for something like showing up late (a policy violation) and they were actually late or otherwise really did violate company policy, but the "real reason" was found to be something else like personal animus, racial discrimination, or some other illegitimate reason. That's where it's a pretext. Tbh this problem could partially be fixed by strengthening employment protections for workers, but none of the major corporate power brokers, whether liberal or conservative, are at all interested in that right now, and very vocal segments of the public (right now there are more of those voices on the left, but I remember when the opposite was true and religious conservatives were doing this) like the idea of getting people fired as a way of shaming them for their views or opinions, so I expect this issue to get worse before it gets better.

>or (more likely) settled out of it.

This is probably what will happen, though. The guy has already gotten job offers from other companies, so I suspect he will happily take a 1-2 million dollar settlement and waltz off to some other company.

>>9863487

>It's conducive to the advancement of post-industrial capitalism.

Explain

>>9864502
Everything and anything is fascist nowadays, but when I'm called a fascist, it's a specific ideology with a precise definition.

>>9863073
>hey here's an idea
>STOP FORCING YOUR DOUBLETHINK ON ME FASCIST

>>9862940
>The ego
I don't even fully disagree with you but Freudians need to get out. There's enough serious research on this.

>>9864318
>his memo is pretty reasonable
His argument about preserving "psychological safety" for right-wingers is literally him arguing for a safe space

>>9864563
Somebody didn't read the memo.

>>9864053
Correct.
Gender is an interaction between environment and genes, and some bits are hard-wired.
From what've learned - so far - is that (young) males are higher risk takers and boys have a preference for objects but otherwise psychologically there is not that much difference.

>>9864538
Women due to their natural abilities are better suited to most post-industrial than men. Businesses require the trampling of social norms that prevent this, and Butlerism provides the perfect intellectual justification to act in this way.

This deregulation of gender is a form of cultural neoliberalism that does more harm than good.

>>9864601
>Women due to their natural abilities are better suited to most post-industrial than men.

I've read this before in the context of primary education, where commentators have noted that boyhood is on the verge of being pathologized (and no, it wasn't Christina Hoff Sommers writing this), because typical "boy" behaviors like playfighting, excess energy, being unable to sit still, name calling, and the like are considered to be disruptive, attention-seeking, or even "harmful". And because, theoretically, there are no behavioral differences between the sexes, boys who are acting "like boys" have behavioral problems that need to he addressed and controlled. Strange how Butler's thought, which is so rooted in Foucault, is being used to create and justify extensive systems of control that Foucault decried.

>>9864410
It's one way of addressing the neckbeard problem. Eliminating neckbeards is unquestionably a good thing.

>>9864601
>muh cultural Marxism
Oh for gods sake. Fuck off with your victim complex. Women aren't out to get you. Queers aren't out to get you. White men are still super over represented in tech. The whole industry was built around people like you at the exclusion of everyone else. Women get paid less for the same jobs. As soon as people start demanding an even playing ground, you start freaking out. Quit being a bitter Virgin looser.

>>9864662

The creator of the Javascript programming language, not a random "neckbeard" programmer, was forced to quit from his new job as Mozilla Firefox CEO, for having donated money 6 years earlier in support of California's anti gay marriage Proposition 8.

The people who forced him to quit must think most Californians arent morally fit for being Firefox CEOs, since the majority voted in favor of banning gay marriage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich

>>9864662
Neckbeards>>>> gynocratic neoliberal managerialists

>>9864689
>White men are still super over represented in tech.
This is the only true sentence in your post, leftsheep.

Wanna bet that most of the people arguing here for "diversity of opinion" in the workplace have no problems with people getting fired for organizing a union

>>9864698
So what? He donated money to oppress other people primarily based on his religious views and got what he deserved.

He should have been fired for creating JavaScript. Anyone that thinks dynamic typing is acceptable deserves far worse.

>>9864689
The white men are slowly being replaced with Asians. Without "affirmative action" the white men can't compete.

>>9864719
Anon, you run the real risk of getting kneecapped for attempting to unionise in the bay area.

>>9864689
>White men are still super over represented in tech.

What does this even mean? If they get the skills and get the jobs thats who the fuck is going to be there. This goes for anyone.

You might as well complain about mexicans being overrepresented in construction and other manual labor jobs. Do you want to force "diversity" there too?

>>9862940
Ah, so transgender's dysmorphic suffering is just all in their head and they should just stop.

Gender feminists can't make up their mind.

Gender identity is neurological. Sure, cultural stereotypes are a thing. That doesn't make the sexes psychologically identical.

>>9864728
Affirmative action is what's putting non-whites in tech, not the other way around.
Fuck, I took the bait.

>>9864731
They aren't the best for the job. They're only the "best" since they receive affirmative action over Asians and they discriminate against women and minority groups. From Google's own metrics, Asians, women and minority hires actually produce far more code while having far less defects per line of code.

>>9864719
Of all the horrible offenses that large corporations, especially those in SV, commit, this is one of the worst. Prohibitions on unionizing is absolutely a free speech issue, but all the labor protections that were built up in the 20s-50s have been under assault for 30+ years, and the government labor departments and ministries have sided with the corporations.

>>9864756
I didnt mean to play white dudes were the best for the jobs. I mean to say there are very likely more white dudes who are into technology and therefore you'd see them more in those fields compared to anyone else.

Nobody likes manual labor, so illegal mexicans sweep that shit up. Same principle.

>>9864731

Kek. You think Mexicans are genetically predetermined to be better at construction?

>>9864248
You have to go back!

>>9864731
>You might as well complain about mexicans being overrepresented in construction and other manual labor jobs
> WHY DON'T THEY CARE ABOUT DIVERSITY IN COAL MINES?

This is such a stupid argument. There are very good reasons people care about diversity in higher tier occupations.

Why does every fucking board need to deal with identity politics? Keep this shit in your own trash board.

>>9864719
The liberal identitarian managerial state isn't really compatible with unions either. It's funny how those jacobin/chapo leftists want to LARP as rugged 19th century industrial workers, when they are managerial petty bourgeois to the bone.

>>9864796
Because insecure white men are constantly trying to claim genetic superiority over everyone else and make policy decisions based on that.

>>9864778
Why would they be? The fact is they're cheap labor and dont have all kinds of options.

>>9864785
You can care about it, but that dosent make it a big issue. Your wome and minorities do get hired, but if your vision is to paint a woman on every wall dont be surprised when people find it a bit strange. Nevermind the reality that not all people of your target groups are into that industry.

>>9864785
Such as? I'm thinking it actually boils down to managerial class interests.

>>9864801
I'm just so tired of having to see identity politics pushed by right wingers on a lot of boards and, to a further extend, on most forums online, despite the fact that it's usually only vaguely or not at all related to the topic at hand.

>>9864796
more importantly, the fuck this has to do with literature

>>9864824
The tweet is written by an author, that's it.

>>9864827
kay, time to start threads about gordon ramsey tweets, he's author as well after all

>>9864832
The guy in the OP has written some legitimate stuff, unlike Ramsey though.
Still, this thread has nothing to do with literature and should have been deleted.

>>9864838
we are not talking about legitimity, author's an author, either hotpockets concedes this thread is a poorly veiled excuse to bitch about indentity politics or he will let me have my ramsay thread

>>9864801
You're on the /lit/ board, who do you think writes all of this literature lol?

>>9864851
The fuck are you trying to say?

>>9864763
Yeah absolutely. I find it frustrating that no one really bats an eye at the fact that we basically have pinkertons again but 95% of the political oxygen gets spent debating (comparatively) petty identitarian culture war bullshit.

Not exactly "deck chairs on the titanic" but it's close

>>9864799
Eh I dunno. They both have their problems but they're a bridgehead against neoliberal intersectional purity politics which has hamstrung the left for half a decade. Chapo especially has given many in the left a licence to push back against idpol. They're just media platforms but it's a start and I'm willing to take it

>>9864855
This is the whitest board on 4chan? If you don't like white people you should probably just leave.

>>9864689
>cultural Marxism
I never implied anything about Marx. Butlerism is ideologically analogous to neoliberal positions, and its implementation helps advance advance that economic system through the cultural changes it inspires. Thus cultural neoliberalism is an accurate metaphor to describe this phenomenon. On the other hand, cultural Marxism usually has nothing to do with Marx or Marxism; it's merely a way to bitch about the presence of jews in anything the person claiming its existence dislikes.
> Fuck off with your victim complex. Women aren't out to get you. Queers aren't out to get you.
I was more concerned with society as a whole, but if you want to make it about me, I'm glad to assist. I understand your definition of "victim" was designed to preclude me and people like me, but to some extent I am a victim of the discourses currently radiating out of academia. I'm sure you already have a joke prepared for when you're confronted with such a claim. I'm being robbed of opportunities in so that they may be given to others. It may not be a zero sum game, but there is a level of scarcity that makes it pretty damn close. In exchange I'm given some highly abstract "benefits", but it doesn't compare in anyway to the material advancements these groups receive. The whole thing stinks of a Panglossian theodicy targeted solely at my demographic. The intentions of these groups don't really matter; their advancement is detrimental to me.
>
White men are still super over represented in tech. The whole industry was built around people like you at the exclusion of everyone else. Women get paid less for the same jobs.
it was built around people like me because it was primarily built by people like me. This colonization of these spaces by foreign groups is a threat, and should be a concern of mine. I'm also not an advocate of meritocracy (as i said earlier, women are better suited for most jobs in this day and age, but I still oppose their advancement), so representation isn't a concern of mine.
>As soon as people start demanding an even playing ground, you start freaking out.
I have more reasons to freak out than to not. "But you live in the best of all possible worlds, and soon you might even be allowed to wear a dress in public." Is sufficient enough to placate me.

>>9864877
I'm far more Aryan than you and I think he should stay.

>>9864885
I'm not saying that because I'm white that he should leave? This board has really gone to the shitter.

>>9864822
>I'm just so tired of having to see identity politics pushed by right wingers on a lot of boards and, to a further extend, on most forums online, despite the fact that it's usually only vaguely or not at all related to the topic at hand.

leftists have been pushing identity politics on all aspects of reality. have you been paying any attention to book awards lately? the oscars? twitter? this is the world you created. identity politics is now related to everything. so don't complain if people speak out against it in the few non controlled media spaces left.

Read Paul Gottfried you guys. liberalism is dead, postliberalism and identity politics are tools of New Class domination and social engineering.

He's a paleoconservative, Richard B. Spencer's erstwhile jewish academic mentor, author of edgy classics like After Liberalism: Mass Democracy and the managerial State, and Multiculturalism and the Politics of Guilt: Towards a Secular theocracy, and a very well read guy, much unlike modern leftists who read only bell hooks' self help tripe and ya novels. even foucault and marx are 'white dudes' after all.

>>9864880
>Women get paid less than men for the same jobs
There it is. Stop taking the bait faggots, it's a troll.

>>9864877
I don't care about the colour of your skin, what I do care about is idiots who have to bring it up when it has nothing to do with the topic.
If you think I hate white people because I dislike retards bringing their identity politics in here then you need to go to some shitty safespace like /pol/
>>9864899
I don't give a fuck about your persecution complex, take this garbage somewhere else.

>>9864899
>leftists have been pushing identity politics on all aspects of reality

Leftists are only responding to the racism and misogyny coming from those on the right. If fat neckbeards would stop claiming "muh genetic superiority" none of this would be happening.

>>9864857
>I find it frustrating that no one really bats an eye at the fact that we basically have pinkertons again but 95% of the political oxygen gets spent debating (comparatively) petty identitarian culture war bullshit.

I used to a pretty hardcore libertarian, practically an-cap, but getting into the job market after my education ended and seeing how some of my friends were treated by their employers, and comparing that to my parents' generation, really changed my mind on the importance of unions and labor protections. Not to mention the disastrous social effects you see in the Rust Belt and similar places when the factories close, the unions get eviscerated or co-opted by the company, and new unions can't form. It's just not viable socially or politically, and I'd rather not have to go through a replay of the 1910s-1930s again to address the issues, but it seems like the only thing that would change things away from this age of "we need to meet the demands of a fast-paced, complex global economy" is some type of global conflict, which is the same thing that ended the Edwardian era, Gilded Age, "How the Other Half Lives" time period. Otherwise, it's like politicians are zombie caretakers for SV, MNCs and big financial firms.

>>9864822
They are relevant, you just don't realize it because the left dominates all social spaces. You have the privilege of not recognizing your privilege.

>>9864899
>>9864914
>right wingers literally need a safespace

>>9864916
It's more the destruction of the safe space that contains the whole of society.

>>9864921
So, a safespace?

>>9864912
There is nothing preventing unions in AnCap, doofus.

>>9864906
You look pretty similar to those you dislike.

>t. unchecked dubs post

>>9862940
All men are born from women, though. Your beloved blank slate does not exist; you will rob the world of everything in your attempts in attaining it.

>>9864923
Safe spaces require enforcement of standards. I just want to get rod of the standards and those who enforce them.

>>9864916
>no u

you have no concept of the political. liberal gynocratic managerialism is an unchanging and self evident given to you, but to the rest of the world it seems increasingly unstable. why do you think Trump won the election? Trump was supported by historic majorities among gen z white males, white females and asian males. to the rustbelt the left can only answer: you are boring privileged whites unfit for the diverse global economy, how do you think they are gonna take it? This is the same hubris that lost Hillary the election.

>>9864957
How dare I suggest that /lit/ should be about literature and not a place for overtly sensitive right-wingers to platform about their idpol filth.

>>9864972
the whole world is a safespace for overly sensitive leftists and lgbt pocwocs. I mean, why can't you handle a little difference of opinion in one of the few liminal spaces where that's still a thing?

other online literary spaces are over 50% leftist idpol clickbait and virutous circlejerking.

>>9864987
This isn't a difference in opinion you fucking dunce, this is about your opinion not being relevant to the topic of this board and thus not welcome.
You delicate snowflakes constantly shit other places up because your persecution complex has lead to a paranoia so severe that you need a safespace from some kind of world that is supposedly Marxist.

>>9864957
>liberal gynocratic managerialism
/pol/ madlibs

>>9864957
>you have no concept of the political

i see our requisite dilletante schmitt reader has deigned to join us in spite of his obligations

so glad you could be here too contribute your jejune and otiose opinions, my good friend

>>9864926

Private security forces? Like the...Pinkertons?

>>9865018
'liberal gynocratic managerialism' is a good phrase and an accurate phrase. lefties might complain about 'neoliberalism' but they never ask themselves, what is it that makes neoliberalism tick? hence, the only remedy they can imagine is more of what made the patient ill in the first place. If lefties spent as much energy 'smashing capitalism' as they do acting as the last line of defense of the managerial state, the USA would be a bolshevik republic. But we all know this is never gonna happen.

>>9865076
The managerial state is essentially the outgrowth of any ruling ideology ever and you'd have to be patently retarded to not see so

>>9864388

>>9865167

And you think it's appropriate to characterize the 'ruling ideology' as a 'gynocracy'?

>>9865186
>not anon_easy_on_the_replies.jpg

>>9865239
replace it with a different one and watch similar results

>>9860475
Google.. easy on the women

>>9865267

Describe the salient features of a gynocracy.

>>9865279
presumably, rule by women

>>9865282

That's it? What is the nature of this ruling?

>>9865293
>what is the nature of this ruling?
that it's performed primarily by women

>>9865298

Do they form a council, or...?

Where do you see this in 'the real world'?

>>9865304
>Do they form a council, or...?
It can be anything, nothing more is implied in the word gynocracy
>Where do you see this in 'the real world'?
I'm sure there are businesses with female CEO's

>>9865304
Not him, but the google censorship department (pictured) is an example.

>>9865309
>nothing more is implied in the word gynocracy

So, in a theocracy--which the term gynocracy is borrowing much of its semiotic heft--it is the supernatural order, or rather its temporal representative, tat holds ultimate authority. Presumably, by analogy, a gynocracy is a system of government in which women hold ultimate authority.

>I'm sure there are businesses with female CEO's

A business is not a system of government, even if it has its own internal governmental structure. That 'some women' hold executive positions in 'some' large businesses does not imply that ultimate authority is in the hands of women, generally.

This manifesto makes sense, but it's not the "ebil gnatsee" shit people are freaking out about. It's like YouTube skeptic-tier.

But if you think that's bad, or what Danielle said was bad, the google plus circlejerk the affirmative action employees have:

>>9865333
>So, in a theocracy--which the term gynocracy is borrowing much of its semiotic heft--it is the supernatural order, or rather its temporal representative, tat holds ultimate authority.
Theocracy is a word that is already established in the English language and already has connotations and denotations. Gynocracy is a neologism.
>Presumably, by analogy, a gynocracy is a system of government in which women hold ultimate authority.
That's what I've been saying, yes

>>9865336
More context:
>Paul and Sitaram are managers. Colm is a director with 101 full-time employees in his organization. Dave is a director with 242 full-time employees in his organization. These posts are from the internal version of the Google+ social network, which is limited to Googlers only.

What /pol/ would deride as cucky CIVNAT material in the manifesto is an outrage, apparently. But these guys can keep their jobs.

>>9865358

>>9865350
>>9865358
>>9865364
>>9865368

>>9864689
Holy shit go back to tumblr.
Unequal pay for equal work? That's been debunked so many times you have to be a feminist or from 2015 to still believe it.

In this case: the female workers at Google get 80K a year while the male H-1b workers who do the same thing work for peanuts.

>>9865346

Again, 'gynocracy' is tied to the connotative webwork of 'theocracy'. This is a deliberate rhetorical strategy, and your obtuseness on this point is a part of that, allowing you, in other contexts, to equivocate in your speech and deny culpability when called on it.

Iran is a theocracy. Are there any countries like Iran, excepting that instead of an ayatollah they have a supreme female leader, kept in power by a hierarchy of woman that subjugate and suppress dissenting make voices and political parties?

>>9865389
>Again, 'gynocracy' is tied to the connotative webwork of 'theocracy'.
it literally isn't. There are plenty of words that end in -cracy, and there's absolutely no reason to associate the neologism gynocracy with theocracy in particular.
>Are there any countries...
No, not that I know of

>>9865387
Peanuts is not a quantifiable number

>>9865324

I have no idea what you mean by "ruling." Those people chase down DCMA requests and filter hate speech, kiddie porn, and snuff. This is the tech equivalent of thinking the Irish controlled this country back when they made up most of the inner-city beat cops.

>>9864916
>asking for the freedom of speech and acceptance of different viewpoints integral to the American worldview is demanding a safespace
OK

>>9865368
>>9865364
>>9865358
>>9865350
>>9865336
These are for the most part too small to read.