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/lit/ - Literature

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1033389 No.1033389 [Reply] [Original]

Why are dwarves always the same, but trolls always different in fantasy novels?

>> No.1033393

Because 7 8 9

>> No.1033392

It's dwarfs, not dwarves.

>> No.1033421

>>1033392
>trolls
>>1033389

>> No.1033446

They are based on different myths. Most fantasy worlds are based on myths. Traditional troll myths differ from traditional dwarf myths.

>> No.1033458

Because Trolls aren't in Tolkien.

>> No.1033468
File: 38 KB, 527x354, Troll.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1033468

>>1033458
>Trolls aren't in Tolkien.

What?

>> No.1033476

>>1033458
Read the Hobbit. Or LotR. Or Simarilion.
Or anything he has written basicly.

>> No.1033479

Dorfs are specific to Scandinavian mythology, so the interpretations of them tend to be more specific and have less variation. Like you don't really see alternate interpretations of Selkies because those are so specific to Irish/Celtic myth. Trolls are found in a lot of different folktales, mythologies, etc. so there's more variation. It's like how a Greek sphinx is different from an Egyptian sphinx, or an Western style dragon compared to an Eastern one. In some cases they're mostly different things completely but they share a name just because of a few similarities.

>> No.1033491

>>1033479
> Dorfs are specific to Scandinavian mythology, so the interpretations of them tend to be more specific and have less variation.

You just went full retard. There are litterally no description of dwarves in nordic mythology except for being blacksmith. Hell, it's more or less accepted now that dwarves and dark elves are the same thing.

So no. Dwarves being the way they are is because of people fellating Tolkien.

>> No.1033494

>>1033491
He`s wrong about the dwarfs being part of Norse mythology, but the pitch is still correct. Dwarfs and trolls both come from old folktales and mythology, and the variation is based on the variations in the different myths.

>> No.1033498

>>1033491
Tolkien got his world inputs from ancient mythology and literature. The finnish Kallevalla is one.

>> No.1033502

>>1033491
Oh look, someone knows how to use wikipedia

>>1033494
I should have said Germanic, probably. It's a broader term, but more accurate.

>> No.1033506

>>1033494
Actually, he's correct about dwarves being part of Norse mythology. There just aren't surviving description of them. Still, because of the countless ways that dwarves and other forms of little people vary in description in folk tales, I don't buy that premise. Dwarves as they generally are in fantasy is due to Tolkien.

>> No.1033513

>>1033506
What norse mythology have you been reading?

>> No.1033517

>>1033513
They're there, but aren't necessarily small little gold jews. Tolkien made them into that.

>> No.1033523

>>1033502
> Come with incorrect statement
> Insult the one who corrects you

Stay classy.

>> No.1033526

>>1033517
They`re there, but there is no written evidence of them anywhere. Cool story bro.

>> No.1033533

>>1033526
There's no evidence because Dwarfs in Norse mythology are the same height as fucking humans, so there's really no difference.

But Dwarfs as we know of them today, of course they aren't there.

>> No.1033538

>>1033533

I think they just want you to point to where in the mythos it mentions them.

>> No.1033543

>>1033533
Are you seriously trying to tell me that there are dwarfs in norse mythology, but they look and act like normal people and they are not reffered to as dwarfs, but you have in some genious way identified them as dwarfs. And apparantly my professor teaching fucking norse mythology at a fucking scandinavian university has never heard of them. But you have?

>> No.1033549

>>1033389
Because they all copy off of Tolkien, and he had a pretty concrete description of Dwarves but not really of Trolls.

>> No.1033552

>>1033526
>>1033538

Are you for real? Alright, let's quite Völuspa - the first song in the poetic Edda and arguably one of the most central text to Norse mythology:

9. Then went reigns all
to their ruling seats,
the high-holy gods
held council:
whom should the Dwarfs,
the kings' men, create,
from oceans blood
and the blue calves.

10. There was Modsognir,
greatest of creations,
greatest of Dwarfs,
but Durinn second;
Manlike creations
many they did,
Dwarfs from earth,
as Durinn said.

[...]

etc. Verses 9-16 is about nothing else than naming dwarves. Srsly.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Poetic_Edda/V%C3%B6lusp%C3%A1

>> No.1033554

>>1033543
You don't have a professor teaching about norse mythology in Scandinavia, and you don't know shit about Norse mythology. Dwarves are well established in the mythos.

That is all however - there is no description of how they look or act. But they are there.

>> No.1033562

I've been wondering the same.
Elves and dwarfs seem to always fit Tolkien's concept unlike trolls and mixed races.

>> No.1033577

>>1033543
What region do you live in and what is a name of that professor?

>> No.1033581

>>1033577
Sighord Trogson and region is Trondheim my dear friend

>> No.1033589

>>1033554

There are descriptions of where they live and how they act. They live underground, they forge items and they can get pretty touchy about jewelry. Just like Tolkien's Dwarves.

>> No.1033594

If I remember correctly from the version I read of the Norse Myths Trolls don't all look the same, they're all big and deformed but not consistent. I'm no expert but I think nowadays the Trolls of folklore are mainly characterized by a big nose, big ears and a tail.