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/lit/ - Literature


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11585718 No.11585718 [Reply] [Original]

Renounce the flesh. Temper your desires while lessening your appetite. Lessen your labors and remain in your cell. Do this and you will know peace.

>> No.11585771
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11585771

Monks are cool.

>> No.11585791

>>11585771
that could be a goddamn Kierkegaard quote
it's a shame he was born in the land of Protties
can't even imagine what he'd have accomplished if he had had the opportunity to be Orthodox

>> No.11585950

>>11585791
Does Captain Kierk have anything in particular to say about the Apostolic Churches?

>> No.11585970

>Renounce the flesh
sounds gnostic

>> No.11586018
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11586018

>>11585718

>> No.11586036

>>11586018
10/10 my dude. Saved as fuck.

>> No.11586575

>>11586018
Anthony of Egypt! *cracks open a cold one* Now that's what I call a hermit! *sips* Don't make 'em like they used to...

>> No.11586580
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11586580

monastic /lit/ is quality

>> No.11586587

>>11585970
It's not literal. it means reason>passion.

"a good man, though a slave, is free, but a wicked man, though a king, is a slave, because he serves not one man alone, but what is worse: as many masters as he has vices"

>> No.11586597

St Anthony pray for all Anons on this underwater basket weaving Taiwanese gluten-free culinary image host and bulletin board website

>> No.11586652

>>11586580
Wow the pdf for this bad boy is 100 meg

>> No.11586666

How many on /lit/ would do it tomorrow if you got an invite?
Become a monk. You would have to give up all non-religious literature, and probably all fiction.

>> No.11586670
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11586670

>tfw thinking about the fact that Christianity posits a worldview and mode of behavior that's so radically different than the typical ways of life of nearly everyone
>tfw thinking about how truly practicing Christianity puts you totally outside the "normal" world

The otherness of Christianity is one of those things that makes me think it might be for real. Actually following Christianity is so different than most of what humanity is like, and doesn't God say that his ways are not man's ways? It's so much more alien to the normal human condition than something like Islam.

>> No.11586687

>>11586670
Read Sickness unto Death if you haven’t.

>> No.11586696

>>11586587
That sounds like it's straight out of Buddhism

>> No.11586702

>>11586696
Now youre starting to connect the big dots and see the big picture

>> No.11586707
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11586707

dud r u siryas???

>> No.11586710

>>11586670
>The otherness of Christianity

My priest friend explained that the 'Natural Inclinations' we have are a lot of the time incongruent with Spiritual Aspirations

>> No.11586711

I would advice any Anon coming through this post to read "The way of the Pilgrim".

>> No.11586713

>>11586696
It's kind of interesting that most of the other big faiths have elements in common with Christianity, but they're only in parts. Islam has the monotheism and the devotion. Hinduism has the wonderworks and the intercessory elements. Buddhism has the renunciation of the world and the stillness. But none of them put it all together the way Christianity does.

>> No.11586719

That's pretty good, but I think Jesus tells one to be a servant, and therefore increase our labors of mercy.

>> No.11586721

>>11585718
This is the gayest thing I've read tonight

>> No.11586724

>>11586652
this one should be smaller.

http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf

>>11586666
in a heartbeat, conspicuous quads-anon

>> No.11586728

>>11585771
nice quote

>> No.11586731

>>11585718

No thanks I'd rather flail about and scream in undying self-inflicted pain brought about by rebellion against God's design

>> No.11586734

He also said, 'The desire for possessions is dangerous and terri-
ble, knowing no satiety; it drives the soul which it controls to the
heights of evil. Therefore let us drive it away vigorously from the
beginning. For once it has become master it cannot be overcome.'

>> No.11586741

>>11586666
I would probably not do it because if I became a monk I would probably not be able to write poetry and short stories, and I feel this is what I am meant to do. That's my vocation, right there.

>> No.11586743

>>11586724
Yea, like 100x smaller. Thank you

>> No.11586744

>>11586713
To me it seems each of those traditions make more sense internally than Christianity does, at least they seem more complete.

>> No.11586746

>>11586744
I would agree with that. But that just sort of reinforces the idea that Christianity is very strange.

>> No.11586748

>>11586744
Christianity only appears incomplete because it's too large to be entirely seen at once.

>> No.11586752

>>11586741
FUck, me too. I guess that means we're both doomed

>> No.11586764

>>11586741
destiny is a meme and Augustine blew it the fuck out. You don't have any vocation, any talents are merely gifts from the earth, not gifts from God.

>> No.11586765

>>11586744
How is Christianity incomplete?

>> No.11586774

>>11586765
Jesus hasn't come back yet

>> No.11586790

>>11586765
It just seems like Jesus' teachings weren't meant for a 2000 year lasting, continent ruling religion and a lot had to be added after the fact to flesh it out, and that is the cause of a lot of disagreement and bitterness.

>> No.11586805

I agree Christianity does appear incomplete as Christ spoke cryptically. Unless one views it in the context of eastern philosophy (Hinduism specifically), it won't make that much sense.

>> No.11586812
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11586812

>>11586731
unfortunately this. fuck lads, i'm not gonna make it, it's too hard

>> No.11586814

>>11586805
>Unless one views it in the context of eastern philosophy (Hinduism specifically), it won't make that much sense.
As someone familiar with Hinduism that has been exploring Christianity recently, this intuitively makes a fuckton of sense to me, I feel like Christians wouldn't take kindly to it though.

>> No.11586823

>>11586666
> spending your life in the basement for many years should somehow lead to different results from monasterial life, or solitary confinement

You haven't had a revelation yet.

>> No.11586824

>>11586805
I don't think he was that cryptic, really. He spoke in aphorisms/parables but he explained almost all of them

>> No.11586826
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11586826

>>11586790
>>11586805
This is because Jesus himself never actually wrote anything down. He did, however, found a Church to continue his mission on this Earth, and he imbued it with authority to carry on his will.

And this is why Protestants are incredibly stupid.

>> No.11586851

>>11586814
To them I elucidate the "Ye are Gods" speech. It is commonly interpreted to mean that kings had power over life and death and are therefore Godlike, but I think it makes more sense that Jesus was trying to illustrate that we are all God.

>>11586824
Just looking at the gospel, one can find a few sayings that are mysterious, and he really does leave the door open to a lot of existential mysteries.

>> No.11586915

>>11586851

Thoughts and Commentary?

usccb.org/bible/psalms/82

[82:6] I declare: “Gods though you be”: in Jn 10:34 Jesus uses the verse to prove that those to whom the word of God is addressed can fittingly be called “gods.”

1
A psalm of Asaph.

I
God takes a stand in the divine council,

gives judgment in the midst of the gods.

2
“How long will you judge unjustly

and favor the cause of the wicked?

3
“Defend the lowly and fatherless;

render justice to the afflicted and needy.

4
Rescue the lowly and poor;

deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”

II
5
*The gods neither know nor understand,

wandering about in darkness,

and all the world’s foundations shake.

6
I declare: “Gods though you be,offspring of the Most High all of you,

7
Yet like any mortal you shall die;

like any prince you shall fall.”

8
Arise, O God, judge the earth,

for yours are all the nations.

[Psalm 82] As in Ps 58, the pagan gods are seen as subordinate divine beings to whom Israel’s God had delegated oversight of the foreign countries in the beginning (Dt 32:8–9). Now God arises in the heavenly assembly (Ps 82:1) to rebuke the unjust “gods” (Ps 82:2–4), who are stripped of divine status and reduced in rank to mortals (Ps 82:5–7). They are accused of misruling the earth by not upholding the poor. A short prayer for universal justice concludes the Psalm (Ps 82:8).

[82:8] Judge the earth: according to Dt 32:8–9, Israel’s God had originally assigned jurisdiction over the foreign nations to the subordinate deities, keeping Israel as a personal possession. Now God will directly take over the rulership of the whole world.

>> No.11586969

>>11586915
>you finna die
Well thanks alot

>> No.11586989

>>11586915
Well the argument I always get into is..

There are two options. 1) The Jews came after Jesus for claiming he is God. He responds "Why should you persecute me when it has been claimed you are all Divine in essence."
2) Jesus responds by saying that the power to murder a man(take a man's life) is considered a divine power and they too are Divine.

I think option #1 just makes more sense in the context, as why is the power to take a man's life considered an especially divine attribute.

Also, Jesus literally spells it out in the gospel, they are considered Gods just because they are children of the Most High, not because they have been given authority.

>> No.11587003

>>11586851
Certainly not if by existential you mean "concerning what men ought/ought not to do"

>> No.11587005

>>11586748
this

>> No.11587014

Can someone explain I should be a Christian rather than a Hindu/Buddhist/Daoist/Sufi without appealing to Hell? So in philosophical/theological terms.

>> No.11587030
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11587030

>>11587014
Because no god or prophet can compare to Jesus Christ, who offers the rest and the peace we can find nowhere else.

>> No.11587032

>>11587030
>who offers the rest and the peace we can find nowhere else.
In what way?

>> No.11587043

>>11587014
Because you are a reprobate and can't be christian.

>> No.11587046

>>11587043
How Christlike of you. Enjoy your LARPing

>> No.11587057

>>11586666
I might as well. It's not like my life is going anywhere. I believe hikis and NEETS can adjust to the monk life with ease.

>> No.11587059

>>11587046
prove me wrong

Protip: you can't

>> No.11587062

>>11586713
yes the followers of the dhamma do not cling to their fantasies, like the jhanas being the end. too bad that pathetic people like the christians are shit at jhanas and can only fall back on diddling children, just like secular people

>> No.11587063

>>11587032
It's hard to describe. Or, it's easy to describe but it might be hard to get the full sense of. It's not an automatic relief of heavy labor and toil. It's not physical rest and comfort, because the strife and trouble of the world is still present.

Rather, it's a great calm and joy in the mind and the heart, a sense of brightness and comfort that is rarely disturbed, and when disturbed is always regained.

>> No.11587067

>>11587059
Calvinism is bullshit. There, proved you wrong. At least, that's as much proof as you offered me.

>> No.11587071

>>11587063
That sounds exactly the same as what dedicated practitioners of Hinduism and Buddhism describe.

>> No.11587073

>>11587062
sodomites are not Christians, the "greatest generation" funneled boomer fags into the church to fix them but they just turn wherever they congregate into a bathhouse.

>> No.11587078

>>11587067
you are using the wrong definition of reprobate. You have blasphemed the holy spirit and need a miracle to have any hope at salvation. Why would God waste a miracle on you? That would be unreasonable.

>> No.11587079

>>11587063
The Greeks called that the divine madness. I'm inclined to believe it's best to go crazy and be a jolly holy man.

>> No.11587082

>>11587071
I have no doubt that they get something similar. But Christianity has the benefit of being completely true, not just partially true.

>> No.11587087

>>11587082
>Christianity has the benefit of being completely true, not just partially true.
Why should I believe this? I mean that sincerely, not trying to be combative.

>> No.11587099

>>11586666
You don't need an invite , you can just become one.
But to be a young monk is probably to hear for me. Maybe if I'm still an old virgin I will become a monk to clear my soul before the end.

>> No.11587100

>>11587087
It doesn't matter if you believe it. logos exists outside nous.

>> No.11587117

>>11587087
I like to think it's a blend of both faith and reason, which in Christianity operate in concert.

Christianity has a lot of philosophy going for it, as well as theology. You get a lot of it here on /lit/. Aquinas, Augustine, John Henry Newman, Teresa of Avila, and so on. They offer logical and rigorous proofs of Christianity and the existence of God. They've convinced many people.

On the other hand, Christianity has an active tradition of miracles and wonders that continues to this day. I know Hinduism has something similar, but Christianity can match it. Weeping statues, incredible healings, bleeding Eucharists, signs and wonders, prophecies come true, and more are present in the religion. It's not a dead spiritual path but a living testimony to God's activity in the world.

I may be wrong in my assessment, but it seems to me that in Christianity the miraculous and the philosophical come together. The scholar and the mystic can unite in ways they can't in other religions, because it all supports the same system. Wonderworkers like Padre Pio and philosophers like Bonaventure can be saints in equal measure. Christianity encompasses all of heaven and all of earth, in a way that I'm not sure any other religion does. And it's all centered around the person of Jesus Christ.

I may, again, be wrong, but this is how it appears to me.

>> No.11587118

>>11587100
What makes it true though? Can it be demonstrated it's true or does it have to be taken on faith alone?

>> No.11587124

>>11586814
Why do people think that Christians scholars are not familiar with anytime outside of the church?
You take all the major philosophyses and religions as subjects in school if you are going for a theology.

>> No.11587130

>>11587124
I'm not saying they're not familiar with it. I just figure that the majority would reject eastern metaphysics in favour of theology.

>> No.11587131

>>11586731
God this is a bad feel. A bad, bad, bad, bad, bad feel. Why can’t I just start doing what I know is best for me? What nameless, inscrutable thing compels me? Who raises this arm? Aaaaaarh shit shit shit shit

>> No.11587136

>>11587131
I feel you. I want to believe, but my flesh actively revolts against me.

>> No.11587142

>>11587118
Maybe you shouldn't look to a temporary forum for a complete intellectual satisfaction of all christian truths. You must know you won't find it here, and are merely looking to rationalize your own pre-meditated rejection or sloth in seeking genuine understanding. Just as you childishly demanded no one mention punishment so you can put off any sense of urgency to begin seeking the reward.

>> No.11587146

>>11587131
>>11587136
>So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law,e but in my sinful natured a slave to the law of sin.

>> No.11587148

>>11587087
The simple and best answer is because of Jesus.

>> No.11587154

>>11586826
>And this is why Protestants are incredibly stupid.
To me, it is all one church.

>> No.11587159
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11587159

>>11587142
I don't see why these things shouldn't be able to be discussed on /lit/. See pic related for how someone was able to discuss the basics of the metaphysics Vedanta and point in the correct direction for further reading. What makes this not possible for the theology of Christianity?

>> No.11587172

>>11587159
>What makes this not possible for the theology of Christianity?

because you have to live your faith. How many billions of lukewarm, worthless servants amount to nothing but ignorance while being humble enough to give the faith the benefit of the doubt? And you expect to be fully satiated here without doing even that? You have to walk before you can run. Or you can just stay still due to uncertainty about where that movement would lead, and philosophizing about that unknown fruitlessly.

>> No.11587184

>>11587172
I could pick any religion and run with it like you're saying (and in fact, that's what I have done). I'm just wondering why that should be Christianity.

>> No.11587189

>>11587184
> could pick any religion and run with it like you're saying (and in fact, that's what I have done)

whatever you've picked it's clear you are merely dragging your feet.

>> No.11587194

>>11587189
It's clear that you are unable to make a case for Christianity. See? I can do ad hominem too. It doesn't further the discussion.

>> No.11587200

>>11587194
Not that anon, but he professed his faith to Christianity to you. Is that not enough?

>> No.11587201

>>11585718
I am in love with a Christian girl. I want to possess her. I want her to submit to me and allow me to lead her. I have been learning more about this anemic religion recently and was quite disappointed to find that in the New Earth there will not be marriage. There is only the relationship with Christ. I want to live in perpetual youth with her. Why would I submit to a God who has forsaken his people, who refuses to reveal himself, and who as reward for my obedience would wrench away all that I had come to love for his own vainglory?

>> No.11587203

>>11585791
>being Orthodox
>any year

>> No.11587212

>>11586823
What are you trying to say? That being a NEET with no structure or discipline in your life is the same as joining a monastic order?

>> No.11587218

>>11586764
God created the earth you dumbass

>> No.11587226

>>11587014
no, anything else is more appealing than christianity.

>> No.11587227

>>11587194
I'm not so foolish to let you lead the discussion however you wish on your own terms. If I want to make you the problem because I believe your intentions are the genuine issue I will. I'm casting my pearls before swine. I really believe that if I or anyone else could put together some explanation that would satisfy your desire for epiphany that it would end up as nothing but a fruitless novelty to you in the long run, because as the bible puts it
"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

There is a great difference between knowing something is true and actually believing it.

>>11587200
>he professed his faith to Christianity to you.
no i didn't

>> No.11587238

>>11586666
>Become a monk. You would have to give up all non-religious literature, and probably all fiction.

I don't know of any order where you would have to give up non religious literature. They all have free time every day. That's some monks and nuns will double as scientists or teachers.

>> No.11587239

>>11587201
because God is really super stronk

>> No.11587267

>>11587227
>I believe your intentions are the genuine
It's clear your intentions are to spout bullshit until I grow bored. Well, I guess you succeeded.

Anyone in this thread that actually has faith?

>> No.11587273

>>11587078
How can God waste anything if he is omnipotent?

>> No.11587281

>>11587142
I swear I've seen this post somewhere before. It always amuses me to hear these retards appealing to their divine truth but who, when drilled, are totally incapable of actually articulating their purported beliefs.

>> No.11587291

>>11587172
>You have to walk before you can run
>You have to believe me and accept my axioms as true before I'm willing to tell you what those axioms actually are

>> No.11587297

>>11587239
Yes, but there's no evidence that he is a Christian God. The Christian God has only survived at all in an abortive form by his illegitimate inheritance of the Roman Empire. His followers thus far have produced unwhelming evidence as to his existence.

>> No.11587300

>>11587267
I do.

>> No.11587305

>>11587297
cringe

>> No.11587310

>>11587281
I consider myself a rational skeptic. However, when supplied with enough evidence even if it is not experimentally valid it is sufficient for me. From this belief in God, I turned to Christ, because if anyone found God, it was Jesus. He speaks of idealistic morals with a brilliant comprehension unlike any before him. He points to a Divine System of Justice and Mercy which would apply great ascertainment of the concepts. Also you come to the historical event, where it would I think it would be difficult to garner faithful disciples who would martyr themselves for you unless you had proven it to them via miracles.

>> No.11587311

>>11587291
Why do you think i'm proselytizing? I said from the very beginning anon is a reprobate who can't be Christian, and i wouldn't want him to be one as he is. If all you want to be is wise in your own eyes there are better and easier avenues than Christianity to achieve this.

>> No.11587317

>>11587310
vague anecdotes aren't convincing to anyone but the person who experienced them. They can't live vicariously through you.

>> No.11587325

>>11587305
Care to extrapolate, fagwagon?

>>11587310
I don't even bother with the historical Jesus. What I am more concerned with is the Santa-Claus-like refusal to reveal himself, his failures to act, his being all powerful but doing nothing to prevent sin, his having left behind a contradictory record of his life, his allowance of some hateful pagans to inherit his Church, and his failure to assert any system of metaphysics.

There is divinity. It is likely not a Christian divinity. The Church endures due to the charisma of community leaders employing sophisticated mechanisms of social Orwellianism (dogma) to establish an orthodoxy by which they are invariably favored. If God damns people for all the schisms of Protestant Christianity, no one is going to Heaven.

>> No.11587332

>>11587311
>Why do you think i'm proselytizing
No fucking idea, because like most pseuds you're very intent on talking a lot without actually saying anything.

>If all you want to be is wise in your own eyes there are better and easier avenues than Christianity to achieve this.
Are your parents brother and sister?

>> No.11587334

>>11587325
>Care to extrapolate
Don't use my meme, sinner.

>> No.11587360

>>11587334
fedorafag utterly btfo

>> No.11587378

>>11587332
> like most pseuds you're very intent on talking a lot without actually saying anything.

You either don't understand or don't want to understand what i'm saying because it's not what you want to hear. I haven't said anything esoteric.

All i've said was 1. your attitude/worldview etc etc is why you will never be christian, or likely anything more than "spiritual but not religious" (in reality spiritually dead but doesn't want to look shallow) and 2. You won't be getting any genuine divine revelations though any purely rational discussion of christian theology, because as you are you won't understand it and you have nothing of value to add to such a discussion so no one capable would bother having it with you. if you yearn for such a discussion you have to start small, if this is not a satisfactory answer to you it's because see 1. If you have no intention of trying to change 1. you are never going to be Christian, you will never understand Christianity, so you can look elsewhere to satisfy your ego or stay still here and keep getting frustrated.

>> No.11587394

>>11587378
Does Jesus approve of your holier-than-thou attitude?

>> No.11587401

>>11587394
I haven't mentioned myself once. your vices are not my virtues.

>> No.11587405

>>11587401
You're literally damning that person, depriving them of salvation.

>> No.11587415
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11587415

>>11587378
>1. your attitude/worldview etc etc is why you will never be christian, or likely anything more than "spiritual but not religious" (in reality spiritually dead but doesn't want to look shallow)
You surmised all that on the basis of my having asked a question?

>You won't be getting any genuine divine revelations though any purely rational discussion of christian theology, because as you are you won't understand it and you have nothing of value to add to such a discussion so no one capable would bother having it with you.
Articulate what it is specifically that precludes you from engaging in a purely rational discussion as opposed to thumbing your nose while you jerk yourself off.

>If you have no intention of trying to change 1. you are never going to be Christian, you will never understand Christianity, so you can look elsewhere to satisfy your ego or stay still here and keep getting frustrated.
>Your attitude is why you aren't a Christian
>I can't tell you what's wrong with your attitude because despite being a member of God's elect I spend my time shitposting on a Russian Jezebel forum
>If you have a problem with my refusal to actually identify what is wrong with your attitude, that's just because you have a flawed attitude, see step 1.
Sure thing, Descartes.

>> No.11587416

So this is the Christian thread... hmmm

>> No.11587418

>>11587405
No, on the contrary i'm casting my pearls before swine. I don't have the power to condemn anyone to damnation, I can only recognize what leads to it. As I have said, anon needs a miracle, he is not alone in his situation. Pride is after all the deadliest of all sins. it is the gift to be simple. If he wants to reverse his situation he shouldn't be looking to be convinced of christian truths intellectually before taking steps to become christian, because he will never be satisfied.

>> No.11587421

>>11587401
I know you're most probably autistic, but you understand how easy it is to surmise what type of person you are on the basis of your posts, right?

You are either unwilling to have the conversation because you believe you know me to be spiritually dead and damned (thus you offer judgement in place of God, which sort of goes well with the enormous sense of hubris you would have to exhibit to think you're a member of the elect despite 1) browsing here and 2) lacking any indication that you have a capacity for charity.

Alternatively, you're admitting that you aren't actually capable of having the conversation, which was my original point, because dogmatists like you are invariably retarded.

>> No.11587423

>>11587212
That neet in monastery is just a neet in monastery, and the effects of being in that condition are still similar to those of any other solitude.

Monks follow the example of first Christians who wholly accepted the teaching that social, worldly life is of no importance to someone who believes in eternal life, and detached from it not only spiritually, but also physically. Monastery is not a vacation, commune, form of protest, safe space, or whatever, it is a place for people who made the same decision.

>> No.11587427

>>11585718
if you are going to larp why larp as a christian when there are much more aesthetic and appealing things to larp as? christianity is the least aesthetic religion.

>> No.11587428

>>11587415
>You surmised all that on the basis of my having asked a question?
Yes. Your attitude isn't unique or uncommon, I have basic pattern recognition, and you've yet to make me reconsider.

>Articulate what it is specifically that precludes you from engaging in a purely rational discussion as opposed to thumbing your nose while you jerk yourself off.

It's fruitless to have one with you because Christianity is no fully rational (at least not in the way you perceive rationality to be) and I wouldn't trust myself to keep up with any true theologian. What i've been saying is basic bible stuff.

>> No.11587432

>>11586580
>Ladder of Divine Ascent
>By Mr. Climbacus

A bit on the nose there

>> No.11587443

>>11587418
>he shouldn't be looking to be convinced of christian truths intellectually before taking steps to become christian
You realize this is exactly like me telling you that it's the law for you to give me five dollars whenever I ask without actually doing anything to verify it, right? You're celebrating your own stupidity and superficial knowledge of your own religion as virtues. How the FUCK would someone who had never heard of Jesus come to know him except by rational discourse? You haven't communicated anything about your own beliefs other than:
>1: I don't like you
>2: I won't tell you why because I'm Very Important
>If you have a problem with 2, that means 1.

>> No.11587444

>>11587423
Holy Hell what a worthless God

>> No.11587445

>>11587421
>non-christian trying to tell people how to be christians

everytime

>resorting to the "don't judge!!" mantra

You misunderstand the meaning of the word. You think telling someone they are going to go to hell is the same claiming they have the power to send them there.

>to think you're a member of the elect
I haven't even claimed to be christian. You are building up an enemy to fight when we have only ever been talking about you.

>> No.11587449

>>11587445
>we have only ever been talking about you.
You realise you've been replying to at least three different anons right?

>> No.11587450

>>11587428
>Your attitude isn't unique or uncommon, I have basic pattern recognition, and you've yet to make me reconsider.
You know that to anyone following this conversation, it's enormously transparent that you're masturbating to the thought of having any actual influence on the world by imagining that you're a gatekeeper, right?

>It's fruitless to have one with you because Christianity is no fully rational
See, if you weren't the chronic masturbator I just described, and you were actually considered with being industrious and fruitful, you wouldn't still be replying to me, but you are, so you do.

>> No.11587452

>>11587443
>How the FUCK would someone who had never heard of Jesus come to know him except by rational discourse?

By either taking a leap of faith and being irrational or by being meek enough to not try to understand things before they are able. plenty get converted initially though the most simple of claims and preaching.

>> No.11587458

>>11587445
>non-christian trying to tell people how to be christians
>Christian is retarded and can't even comprehend how retarded he is so he falls back on tired tropes

>You think telling someone they are going to go to hell is the same claiming they have the power to send them there.
No, I understand perfectly well the difference between condemnation and divine judgement, what I'm saying is that you've confused the two because you're in all likelihood afflicted with every pathology Nietzsche could have possibly laid out. I do have to say, I've only found him to be spot on regarding Calvinists and Catholics - go figure.

>I haven't even claimed to be christian
>non-christian trying to tell people how to be christians

everytime

>>11587449
I think it's just me and one other guy who bailed earlier in the thread.

>> No.11587459

It's weird Christianity preaches modesty and temperateness but Christians always strike me as astoundingly arrogant.

>> No.11587461

>>11587443
Why do you expect some random annon to be proselytizing priest?
Go to a church uni with some Christian scholars or something of that sort and you can get a good feel for it and all the rational or irational arguments for it.

>> No.11587462

>>11587172
You won't accomplish anything with this asperity.

>> No.11587465

>>11587452
Ah yes, celebrate being a simpleton.

>> No.11587466

>>11586812
From Petrarch's secretum: "Despair is the ultimate evil, and most men give themselves to it prematurely. Therefore, I want you to know above all that there is nothing to despair about."

>> No.11587467

>>11587461
I would bet double digits that you browse /mlp/

>> No.11587471

>>11587449
all samefags
>>11587450
>it's enormously transparent that you're masturbating to the thought of having any actual influence on the world by imagining that you're a gatekeeper, right?
again, I haven't made this about myself at all, you can try to turn it round if you like. I can only tell you the truth, I have no control over whether you actually listen. You are ultimately your own gatekeeper.
>you were actually considered with being industrious and fruitful, you wouldn't still be replying to me
I'm not telling you what you want to hear, that would be pointless

>> No.11587473

>>11587467
And you would lose

>> No.11587478
File: 89 KB, 746x960, Don-Quixote-Praying.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11587478

>tfw returning ITT after many hours
>now filled with raging, cock wanking, spitting, frothing fedora fagots
Bless my flesh and my mind, Lord, for I should not have removed myself from my peaceful meditations, seeking recreation, and I should not have directed my eyes to the spiteful words of these evildoers and heretics.
Bless me now as I depart this thread finally, O Lord, for the sanctity of this place has been fouled, and I am powerless to combat the works of these demons.
I am sorry Lord, and I weep.
In your divine name I pray.
Amen.

>> No.11587482

>>11587201
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/matrimony-no-more

>> No.11587483

>>11587462
If I spout anathemas to reprobates I keep the filthy filthy as they deserve, if I inspire any self-reflection even better.

>> No.11587490

ITT: autism with a fedora vs autism with a cross

>> No.11587496

>>11587490
Once again radical centrism triumphs are the ultimate truth. We supreme intellectuals done the trilby, the symbol of our stylish class and haughty wisdom.

>> No.11587497

>>11587483
>reprobates

I'm not familiar with this term, what does it mean?

>> No.11587499

>>11587496
You can be an atheist or a christian without being retarded like these posters

>> No.11587505

>>11587497
The dictionary definition suffices. They are merely unprincipled people, common modernists who just sort of go with the flow. They confuse an internalized nihilism with being rational and open minded. Spiritually dead, mentally inept and morally retarded.

The Calvanists claim such people are pre-destined to their state which inevitably leads to damnation, rather than becoming enslaved to it by their own free will.

>> No.11587506

>>11587499
That is not fun. Especially on a Cantonese duck breading forum.

>> No.11587509

>>11587505
If that is what they are, should they despair?

>> No.11587510

>>11587506
Is this thread fun?

>Hey guys, why are you christian?
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-probate!

>> No.11587511

>>11587499
Either all atheists are retarded, or all Christians, or both. But both could never be wise, as they are antithetical to each other.

>> No.11587515

>>11587511
They're really not. Maybe in their imaginations they're different, but in practice they all act pretty similar.

>> No.11587529

>>11587509
No they should give themselves over to God. They need a miracle to get back on track. Being a reprobate is a state, it's essentially blaspheming the holy spirit, God has infinite ability to forgive, but man has limited ability to genuinely repent.

There is never any reason to despair. it is wholly negative and offers no explanations or solutions. it is something you involuntarily fall into and should seek to get out of.

>> No.11587536

>>11587510
>Hey guys, why are you christian?
To be fair the question was "prove to me that Christianity is true and why I should be christian and not some other religion btw no talk of hell"

The "why are you Christian" question was answered with "because Christianity is true"

>> No.11587538

>>11587529
I thought that Christians believed that people can change their mind at any time before they die. Is it really true that people can get locked into a rut in their lifetime?

It seems in cases like this, where people have come up in a very non-Christian society—is it really true that they have a choice? If you have ever not been Christian, you must remember how alien it seemed when you were on the other side of it... it seems unlikely that God would create people just to send them to hell. I guess you would take it as a given that God has somehow given them a choice already in their lives (maybe by the glory of nature which Paul talks about), and they have all rejected his offer?

It just seems like a stretch to me to ask people who already have no faith to believe in miracles. It seems like it would make more sense for them to gradually change their mind and accept the more palatable parts of Christianity, first... I don't know

>> No.11587542

>>11587432
Made me check.

>> No.11587547
File: 35 KB, 430x448, 1529052019825.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11587547

>>11586018
>boom.jpg
Holy shit anon, 10/10

>> No.11587553

>>11586826
>He did, however, found a Church to continue his mission on this Earth, and he imbued it with authority to carry on his will.
But there is no historical record from the death of Jesus of the exactly lineage of this Church to the present age so we do not know if the one known as "The Catholic Church" is in fact the church properly derived from the one Jesus founded. The fact that you know protestants exist yet you don't know this basic argument reveals your own intellectual level, my friend.

>> No.11587558

>>11587538
Again you have to live your faith. it is something that builds gradually, anyone who thinks it is some instant revelation is either deluding themselves or has received some genuine miracle. You need only need to look at the masses of any denomination and see how lukewarm they are in general to doubt this could ever be the rule rather than the exception.

Thankfully knowledge of Christianity is now known and accessible to some degree virtually worldwide, Christianity may certainty be more palatable to some people by nature of the society they are born in, but having genuine faith requires as much a separation from the corporeal world as possible, while the first step may be harder, the final step is just as hard for everyone, those who struggle with the first will have more zeal when taking the second.

I really don't know how many are ultimately saved if any. I can only speculate. However horrible it may seem, I find it far more likely that everyone goes to hell rather than heaven, which at least encourages us that there is still plenty of work to be done.

>> No.11587561
File: 134 KB, 1080x1440, Dj82j9bW0AE-fQI.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11587561

>Abrahamic religions
Not even once

>> No.11587571

>>11587538
>I thought that Christians believed that people can change their mind at any time before they die.

Technically they can, but dread and not remorse causing it or ritualistic lip service isn't going to cut it. We can peer into the hearts, minds and souls of people like God can, so we really can't know what does on in that moment, but it is somewhat disingenuous for Christians to put forth this image, even if it it so console loved one and help prevent people from falling into despair. It is an appeal to the unknowable and Gods ultimate ability to do whatever God wants, even if it is contrary to everything he has told us or left for us to discover.

>> No.11587574

>>11587561
>the virgin relativist Vs the Objectivity Chad

>> No.11587580

>>11587561
>What does it matter what wisdom a person uses to seek for the truth?

I imagine that, not taken out of context, Augustine would reply that human wisdom is not wisdom, but fruitless foolishness. Because there is one world, and one truth, it makes sense that there should be one wisdom that seeks that truth: God's wisdom.

>> No.11587593

>>11587558
So, on this picture, one merely needs to begin. Like Pascal recommended, by enacting the rituals—right? Going to Church, reading scripture, etc.

I know by now it must seem like an obnoxious question—but why? Is this connected to the mystery of free will & divine grace? Is that what starts a person down the right path?

>> No.11587617

>>11587593
Avoiding Hubris probably. The christian like the intellectual is always doubting himself. it's very possible that people who try to do things out of order end up lacking the foundation necessary to really stick to the faith, or end up believing in tenets for the wrong reasons. it's very dangerous to look at any religion as pure secular philosophy because they reader deemphasizes any supernatural aspects and ends up feeling unfulfilled because they don't actually believe any of it, they just want to believe it.

It is certainly best to start out humble and just go through the rituals, if you life your faith you should gradually encounter more and more that reinforces it and begin having a more personal connection. You need to have the pieces of the puzzle before you start putting it together.

In modernity we have access to so much information that anyone who just wants to be intellectually challenged as a sort of surrogate activity has so many options that they hardly have any reason to stick to one thing, and will simply become a general scholar, thinking that somehow if they acquire enough knowledge they can provide their own salvation.

>> No.11587647

>>11585771
>>11585791
>>11586728
death cult

>> No.11587650

>>11587617
>The christian like the intellectual is always doubting himself.

LOL

>> No.11587944

>>11587218
According to the jewish bible

>> No.11587951

>>11586790
>It just seems like Jesus' teachings weren't meant for a 2000 year lasting

You must be joking. Europe's most, if not it's entire history was influenced by the teachings of Jesus and their various interpretations.

They still are relevant today, because the entire of Europe's philosophical, religious and intellectual juice come from the bible.

>> No.11587965

>>11586915
Dude, psalms were not written by Jesus. Jesus never said that, it's whomever wrote the NT attributed this quote to jesus. Can't really blame them tho, if you're an illiterate fisherman who barely knows of his own sacred texts, i'd imagine you'd try to explain wtf happened after Jesus was put on a cross using some mediocre understanding of whatever it is you want to explain in regards to Jesus.

But yes i agree otherwise, the jewish bible is mostly mysticism, a thing they picked up when they were exiled in Babylon and were exposed to sumerian/assyrian astrological mysticism. On top of all that they were also exposed to zoroastrianism which gave all that mysticism a theological religious framework

>> No.11587974

>>11587014
>Can someone explain I should be a Christian rather than a Hindu/Buddhist/Daoist/Sufi without appealing to Hell?

We know of Zarathustra and his teachings existing, only after about 1000 years after he died

We know of Buddha and his teachings existing, only after about 400 years after he died

And we know of Jesus and his teachings existing, only after 20 to 30 years after he died.

Jesus, both as a historical and religious figure, is the most closely and most studied man on earth when it comes to spirituality. You can't get more closer to authentic religious teachings than that.

>> No.11587996

>>11587416
More like protestant thread

>Muh faith

Christ what a bunch of primitive forest niggers.

>> No.11588000

>>11587459
Only catholics and protestants do that.

Notice how the thread went to shit the moment orthodox christians left it.

>> No.11588007

>>11587974
.. Muhammad was known during his life though, does that mean I should become a Muslim?

>> No.11588017

>>11587553

The christian church is catholic, universal in the sense that everyone must heard about the good news, but the catholic church is not the church of christ. I know zealot catholics will use this argument to level themselves against others for their own ego trip for power, but if the church is not orthodox as well, then it is not the church of christ.

ergo, the orthodox church, which is also catholic, is the true church of christ.

>> No.11588020

>>11587561
Just because the OT is pegged to the bible doesn't mean christianity is an Abrahamic religion.

>> No.11588023

>>11585718
Will I still just die in the end?

>> No.11588027

>>11588007
He was known, that is true, but would you, honestly, think of Muhammad as a spiritual person ?

Guy was a bandit who mixed whatever beliefs were present at his time just to gain followers, and eventually an army that would unite the arabs.

>> No.11588030

>>11586713

This isn't true. Islam speaks on renouncing the world, being devoted and monotheistic, and generally maintaining ascetic behavior as a means to achieve salvation. The Bible is very beautiful but Christianity is not the only Abrahamic religion to touch an all of the themes you mentioned (though idk what yo umeant by "Hinduism has the wonderworks and the intercessory elements").

>> No.11588049

>>11588030
>Islam speaks on renouncing the world, being devoted and monotheistic, and generally maintaining ascetic behavior as a means to achieve salvation

Haha, yeah right. Good one.

But i assume you're referring to Sufism here

>> No.11588204

>>11587482
>prottie

>> No.11588896
File: 152 KB, 1060x1338, 1504999509394.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11588896

*blocks ur path*

>> No.11588943

>>11588896
literarelely who

>> No.11589028
File: 52 KB, 600x560, PopeFrancis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11589028

>>11585771
they're doing a good job currently

>> No.11589029
File: 37 KB, 496x600, 1525654672722.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11589029

>>11588943
That's Joseph Smith. Alternatively,
*blocks ur negros from the priesthood authority*

>> No.11589035

>>11585950
Kierkegaard didn't even like Paul.

>> No.11589066

I don't understand why I should believe that the stories recorded in the New Testament are true, and have not been substantially altered since the time they took place, but I should NOT believe that the story in the Bhagavad Gita is true and has not been substantially altered since the time it took place. I'm not trying to say I think the stories in the Bible are impossible either or tip a fedora or anything like that, I'm not an atheist. I just don't see why I should believe one over the other.

>> No.11589109

>>11587311
>I said from the very beginning anon is a reprobate who can't be Christian
Uh, isn't that up to God to decide?

>> No.11589110

>>11587146
Rip

>> No.11589116

>>11589066
One is just written local cosmological folklore, while the other is the closest religious recording of a religious and historical figure

>> No.11589136

>>11589116
Have you ever read the Bhagavad Gita? Here it is in audiobook form if you don't want to bother reading it, it's really quite a nice story even if you don't believe it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC0FW407FVs

>> No.11589156

>>11589136
That's the entire point tho. One's a story about made up characters meaning to explaining the cosmos while the other is dealing with an actual being that actually existed, who's existence was written just 30 years after he died. Aside Muhammad, there's no other religious figure that has such a short span between their deaths and the writing of their respective holy texts.

>> No.11589161

>>11589156
see >>11588896

>> No.11589172

>>11589161
I thought we were talking about christianity and hinduism ?

>> No.11589205

>>11589066
The Bible does talk about lesser spirits who exercised dominion over certain parts of the world, so the Bhagavad Vita could in a certain sense be correct. It just isn't fully correct.

>> No.11589227

>>11586741
>>11586752
Read Gerard Manley Hopkins. He was in the same situation.

>> No.11589381

>>11586731
>>11586812
>>11587131
>But to the Mind-less ones, the wicked and depraved, the envious and covetous, and those who murder do and love impiety, I am far off, yielding my place to the Avenging Daimon, who sharpening the fire, tormenteth him and addeth fire to fire upon him, and rusheth on him through his senses, thus rendering him the readier for transgressions of the law, so that he meets with greater torment; nor doth he ever cease to have desire for appetites inordinate, insatiately striving in the dark

>> No.11589395

>>11589172
>there's no other religious figure that has such a short span between their deaths and the writing of their respective holy texts
Joseph Smith wrote his texts himself, or had someone transcribe what was revealed to him while he was alive. Why aren't you a Mormon?

>> No.11589397

>>11587574

Relativism claims there is no truth, whereas Symmacus claims that there is.

>> No.11589404

>>11589395
Because Joseph Smith didn't perform miracles and rise from the dead.

>> No.11589406

>>11589395
So you don't have the required judgement to compare between someone who's texts were written because he put his face inside a hat, and a near revolutionary figure with a universal message for humanity ? I think you're close to the answer why you shouldn't believe one text for the other. Or any texts for that matter.

>> No.11589411

>>11589404
>Joseph Smith didn't perform miracles or rise from the dead
How do you know? Were you there?

>>11589406
>a near revolutionary figure with a universal message for humanity
According to...

>> No.11589420

>>11588000
i was born in an orthodox family and this is bullshit

>> No.11589444

>>11586587
Doesn't it mean "don't be lustful / don't succumb to temptation"?

>> No.11589457

>>11589411
How do you know the earth is round and not flat? Have you seen planet earth in it's spherical totality ?

>> No.11589459

>>11586666
As >>11587099 said, you don't need an invite. Look up a monestary order you like, contact them. Tell them you you have a vocation to be one. There is a monk shortage.
I suggest conquering the flesh first. Most people are addicted to porn and masturbation. You cannot become a monk unless you first extinguish these habits.

>> No.11589463

>>11586707
>what is the ascetic ideal

>> No.11589467

>>11589411
According to historical consensus

>> No.11589470

>>11589457
>How do you know the earth is round and not flat?
Religious questions are not scientific questions. If you want to start bringing scientific standards of reason and evidence into the debate, I think it will not come out looking so good for Christianity. Science is a specific method for making determinations about a fundamentally material world, it can't tell you anything whatsoever about anything outside of that.

>> No.11589478

>>11586713
>founder of Islam was a merchant with multiple wives and was a slave to the flesh
>dude social conservatism means Islam is ascetic. I mean they a month of the year. I mean it's not really a fast because they stuff their faces like pigs when the sunsets but hey I can ascetic too right guise!

>> No.11589486

>>11589467
>According to historical consensus
Isn't that dependent strictly on the whims of fallible men? Historical consensus is completely malleable.

>> No.11589487

>>11589478 Meant for >>11588030

>> No.11589500

>>11589486
You can say that for literally anything. What's your point?

>> No.11589507

>>11589500
>You can say that for literally anything.
Yes, exactly.
>What's your point?
Why believe one thing and not another?

>> No.11589512
File: 48 KB, 469x463, Img-2641959-1-1385791849500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11589512

>>11589470
>Religious questions are not scientific questions. If you want to start bringing scientific standards of reason and evidence into the debate, I think it will not come out looking so good for Christianity.

>> No.11589517

>>11589507
According to your own logic, why believe anything at all then?

>> No.11589530

>>11589470
>If you want to start bringing scientific standards of reason and evidence into the debate, I think it will not come out looking so good for Christianity

And why is that?

> Science is a specific method for making determinations about a fundamentally material world, it can't tell you anything whatsoever about anything outside of that.

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's.

Jesus had a twofold mission, first part being the ethics and the second one being the explanation of his spirituality. Unless you're so foolishly deluded as to think science can't explain non-material phenomenon, let me remind you it was only just 2000 years ago that people still thought lightening, storms, or other natural cataclysms happen when gods are pissed

>> No.11589532
File: 159 KB, 700x609, fuherfedora.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11589532

>>11587647

>> No.11589534

>>11585718
not true btw

>> No.11589538

>>11589512
Completely missing the point. I'm not an atheist. I was talking shit about science in my post, if you bothered to read it. Science is really limited in what it can teach you. It shouldn't be used for deciding any thing important (i.e. matters of the immortal soul).

>>11589517
>According to your own logic, why believe anything at all then?
I don't fucking know dude, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm not in this argument because I'm trying to prove anybody wrong or pick a fight, I'm stressed out because this subject could possibly contain the most important questions that could possibly be answered. Think about it like this: let's say for the sake of argument that the New Testament is an accurate recording of what Jesus Christ said and did during his time on Earth as a man. Let's also say that everything he taught was true, and all the miracles described really did take place. If all of that is true, what could reasonably take a higher priority in my life than doing all I can to get on God's good side, having the fullest possible understanding of Him, and then going out and convincing as many people as possible of this truth? Nothing could be more important than that, right? So now I'm at a point in my life where I have to decide what I'm going to believe, because it matters in how I conduct myself for the rest of my life.

I get that this is 4chan and everyone's gotta be smug and one-up each other and be aloof but don't you think this subject is pretty fucking serious?

>> No.11589540

>>11589512
Wow, you really showed him.
>This is the greatest argument religious faggots can actually bring to the table.

>> No.11589546
File: 104 KB, 854x1250, (JPEG Image, 854 × 1250 pixels) - Scaled (50%).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11589546

>>11589470

*blocks your path*

>> No.11589558

>>11589530
>science can't explain non-material phenomenon, let me remind you it was only just 2000 years ago that people still thought lightening, storms, or other natural cataclysms happen when gods are pissed
Those are all material phenomena though, and are described and modeled by the scientific method.

>> No.11589585

>>11589517
Not him but I believe we have to have faith in something, even if it’s just faith in recorded history, science, our own experiences, etc. If religion doesn’t require faith, then it should be fully communicable and acceptable by reason. But if it does require faith, then the problem is how to choose to which religion to apply your faith. If this choice is reasonable, then it is communicable. But if this choice also requires faith, then what does that choice depend on, besides our subjective experiences and judgments?

>> No.11589594

>>11589538
> If all of that is true, what could reasonably take a higher priority in my life than doing all I can to get on God's good side, having the fullest possible understanding of Him, and then going out and convincing as many people as possible of this truth? Nothing could be more important than that, right?

Seems to me like you're preoccupied with what others believe as a reference point to your own beliefs. In the end, does it really matter if you convince other people or not? Take a look at the NT and the examples that Jesus provide us with the dilemma. If someone doesn't want to know what's going to happen, why force him to? Leave him be and wipe your shoes from dust after you leave.

The NT is certainly not infallible and the apostles themselves, while doing god's work in spreading the good news, were certainly not infallible. Only Jesus really knew of his spiritual experience with god and only he knew what God's plans were for our souls.

Which is why i carefully read and informed myself about the ideas you need to be aware of before engaging in, and dissecting the NT. Try to approach the topic from a scholarly point of view if texts are so fundamental to you.

If they're not, then it seems like you haven't achieved a higher, spiritual purpose in life.

>> No.11589616

>>11589558
That's just a matter of semantics. What is material and what is not really depends on own own a priori understanding of what's material "real" and immaterial "real". Suffice to say, not everything that is not physical can't be measured and quantified using the scientific method, for if we have the correct a priori conceptions about the non-material phenomenon, it all boils down to quantifying data and interpreting it.

>> No.11589620

>>11585771
For real though, the reason I always look at this shit with suspicion is because these dudes live(d) this life of seclusion, practice and study that involved overcoming their desire to leave it behind for other pleasures of the world. This seems to involve a voluntary abdication of desire or will, like an acceptance of an arbitrary prison (which I guess is taken to make the choice of it more impactful). So when you read something like this, it immediately sounds like the rationalizations necessary to not lose your fucking mind. Denial of the world, as is even stated here and implies an "unnaturalness" so to speak, a struggle to overcome the forces that would normally guide you, seems as though it would be much more painful if you continued to harbor preferences or values in accordance with the world. So your goal is to eventually overcome the deprivation categorically, as much as you can. Of course this would involve a certain level of delusion and story-telling about why you are doing this, why it is valuable to do, etc.

Though ascetics who straight up die by negligence, like a monk starving to death while meditating, seems sort of convincing. They just commit a prolonged suicide, but the fact their suicide is just based in inaction seems to give more credence to the idea that they totally renounced the world. They didn't even use a weapon or poison, they just stopped participating.

>> No.11589632

>>11589594
>Seems to me like you're preoccupied with what others believe as a reference point to your own beliefs
Not exactly. I'm interested in finding out what is convincing to others, and how they were convinced, to believe one thing or another and how that goes on to inform their decision making and how their professed beliefs impact their behavior and motivations. I'm interested in this because all knowledge I haven't personally experienced comes from testimony of others, and I would like to hear the testimony of someone else and test their experiences against my own. Does that make sense?

>In the end, does it really matter if you convince other people or not?
Well, if it was in my power for me to convince someone, the fate of their immortal soul was at stake. Which I would say matters, in a Christian context.

>Only Jesus really knew of his spiritual experience with god and only he knew what God's plans were for our souls.
How does one have spiritual experiences with God, and how would one know what is and isn't true about Him?

>Which is why i carefully read and informed myself about the ideas you need to be aware of before engaging in, and dissecting the NT
What, specifically, are the ideas you're referring to here?

>Try to approach the topic from a scholarly point of view if texts are so fundamental to you.
It's not the texts themselves that are so important, but the question of deciding why I should use one text over another, if two texts are in conflict with each other.

>then it seems like you haven't achieved a higher, spiritual purpose in life.
Yes, exactly, I don't know how I can make that clearer.

>> No.11589636

>>11589620
Ever read Siddhartha?

>> No.11589641

>>11586711
What do you like about it? I study Russian and saw that's the language it was written in, so I'm doubly interested

>> No.11589659

>>11589616
>That's just a matter of semantics.
No, it's not. Lightning is electricity, which is modeled as electrons moving around, and the scientific consensus is that electrons are literally real physical objects with mass. Storms are weather effects, which is composed of particles of material with mass that interact with the world. All of that is material.

>not everything that is not physical can't be measured and quantified using the scientific method
What? If it's measurable and quantifiable, it's physical. Name literally one single thing that is both scientifically measurable and quantifiable, but is also not physical.

>> No.11589717

read gornahoor

>> No.11589781

>>11589632
Yeah, so you're interested in what others have to say as a reference point for your own path.

>How does one have spiritual experiences with God

That's a good question, according to the secret Gospel of Mark, Christ had a special technique in order to interact with god, and using that technique he could show others what he saw, including to Peter, John and James.

>how would one know what is and isn't true about Him?
God's nature is ultimately unknowable, but we can work with the concept of god that Jesus left us, that is, being a universal, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient entity.

>What, specifically, are the ideas you're referring to here?

Pick up a few books on zoroastrian religions and second temple judaism. Get familiar from where Jesus's ideas came from. Read up a bit on how it generally influenced later christian thought. Get to know the start of the ideas and their development. If you carefully analyze the development of christianity, then it's a good starting point if you're convinced in what you're trying to believe in or not.

>It's not the texts themselves that are so important, but the question of deciding why I should use one text over another

I think that's entirely up to you and nobody and nothing can make a decision that works for you best. Ask yourself if the concept of a monotheistic god makes sense to you? To me and i feel to many others, it just makes sense, and that's a solid starting point for exploring the monotheistic religions. If not, then go search for the multitudes of god, in the eastern religions.

It's ultimately up to your own intuition of what should be considered palpable and what not. If you don't have that, get to know yourself better before embarking on a spiritual journey.

>> No.11589804

>>11589659
>No, it's not. Lightning is electricity, which is modeled as electrons moving around, and the scientific consensus is that electrons are literally real physical objects with mass. Storms are weather effects, which is composed of particles of material with mass that interact with the world. All of that is material.

You say that, but prior to the discovery of the methods for us to explain them to ourselves, people believed it was mere magic, or the will of some external divinity. So if you notice closer, it's all a matter of perspective over phenomenon which your brain can either comprehend, or not. The first perspective would make you assume it's "physical" i.e "real"/ "material", the other as not.

>What? If it's measurable and quantifiable, it's physical. Name literally one single thing that is both scientifically measurable and quantifiable, but is also not physical.

The double slit experiment

>> No.11589810

>>11589804
Electrons are considered to be physical materials though. Photons are also physical even if they don't have mass. Energy is physical but it has no mass either.

>> No.11589818

>>11589810
Again, a matter of perspective. You take those truths at near universal face value, but if you were transported back in time, say, 150 years ago, do you think people would believe you and not assume you were some sorcerer ? They'd say that if it's not quantifiable, it's not physical, and therefore, not real.

>> No.11589832

>>11589659
>real physical objects with mass
Be very careful here. This is an entirely correct description you have given of the things which appear to make up our world. But you must know that we can only construct objects a posteriori, that is, as deduced from effects. We do not have a priori knowledge of any cause, that is why our model of an electron is not what an electron "looks like", but it is our representation of an object which has such and such properties. But even these properties are only known by an observer and so are merely relative. We do not know what a thing is "in itself" because we always stand apart from it. There is an impenetrable veil over the inner nature of the world because we only measure our own sphere of activity through our sense organs, and we only measure changes, that is effects, that one thing has made upon another; but we can never know what a thing is independent of the effects its has on other things. At least not by observation.

>> No.11589833

>>11589818
>You take those truths at near universal face value
No I'm just telling you what scientific consensus is. Scientists and scientism can eat my ass. You're just talking a bunch of nonsense.

>> No.11589856

>>11589833
You would do yourself a tremendous amount of favor if you didn't take everything that happened and that happens for granted, but instead view everything as a continuous process.

>> No.11590052

>>11586666
Only if I could spend 30mins to an hour a day on the internet aka 4chan. I am not sure I could do their sleep cycles desu. It's so extreme. I need 8 hours a night.

>> No.11590084

>>11585718
Chaste and breadpilled

>> No.11590712

>>11587471
>I'm not telling you what you want to hear, that would be pointless
All I want is for you to actually articulate a position, which you haven't done because as soon as you stop writhing like a snake you know I'm more than capable of destroying your entire worldview.

>> No.11590724
File: 30 KB, 300x400, IMG_3942.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11590724

>>11587483
>If I spout anathemas to reprobates I keep the filthy filthy as they deserve
Daily reminder that this is what you look like

>> No.11590741

>>11587529
>God is all powerful
>Oh but also despair is a choice
>Oh but don't despair
>Oh but also if you're filth you should definitely despair
Your Christianity is a solipsism that you use a crutch for your own lack of virtue. Die.

>> No.11590752

>>11590741
>If he doesn't punch you in the gut literally then he's not powerful
>Cannot comprehend abstract ideas, only brute force from top down

Preaching the good news to the primitive germanics was a mistake

>> No.11590760

>>11587951
>Europe's most, if not it's entire history was influenced by the teachings of Jesus and their various interpretations.
That's a weird way of saying Platonic philosophy, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Apostle Paul.

>> No.11590767

>>11590752
What are you talking about? I'm not an atheist, the things that were said in that post were just stupid.

>> No.11590776

>>11590767

So each person has his own understanding of his own actions in regards to Him. Why are you conflating that with "Christianity" and why aren't you aware that each priest preaches in his own way ?

>> No.11590784

>>11590760
Plato's metaphysics were pure sophistry. Jesus experienced his own metaphysics that he preached and reached the same conclusions as Plato independently.

And neither the RCC, nor Paul would have existed, were it not for Jesus.

>> No.11590811

>>11590752
>Preaching the good news to the primitive germanics was a mistake
this. honestl should've just genocided them and bred the shit out of their goddess-teir women during the crusades. would've saved a lot of trouble down the road

>> No.11590888

>>11590776
>Your Christianity
>Your
>possessive

>> No.11590893

>/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to /his/. If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/. Philosophical discussion can go on either /lit/ or /his/, but ideally those discussions of philosophy that take place on /lit/ should be based around specific philosophical works to which posters can refer.

>> No.11590900

>>11590784
>Plato's metaphysics were pure sophistry
>Jesus reached the same conclusions as Plato
ThinkingEmoji.gif

>>11590811
Your children will be slaves to my lineage, Abdul.

>> No.11590906

>>11590900
Meaning he used sophistry to reach those conclusions

>> No.11590954
File: 64 KB, 262x162, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11590954

>>11590900
damn that's good irony

>> No.11590957

God isn't objectively real but it's useful to have society believing in him as a principle to give them some perspective and a higher morality.

>> No.11590996

>>11590784
Paul and the Roman Catholic Church are both corruptions of Jesus.

>>11590954
>>11590784
Plato's metaphysics were not sophistry, they were well-reasoned, whereas Jesus went the route of "Shut up and listen to me!"

>> No.11591013
File: 107 KB, 700x511, 245586.b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11591013

>>11587203
come home brother

>> No.11591024

>>11590996
Paul was a good guy. Although a better israelite than Peter or James, he did much more for spreading the good news to other nations. Even so, his writings are not infallible.

And the RCC happens when you let germanic niggers have a say in spirituality

>> No.11591029

>>11590996
>they were well-reasoned, whereas Jesus went the route of "Shut up and listen to me!"

If i would have discovered an out of body experience technique like Jesus, having interacted with God and being granted extra-spiritual extra-human abilities, i'd probably go around telling people how stupid they are for their religious beliefs too.

>> No.11591059

>>11591029
>i'd probably go around telling people how stupid they are for their religious beliefs too.
The sheer arrogance. Love it.

>> No.11591071

>>11591059
Christians in general ARE arrogant. I think they get it from their arrogant messiah, Yeshua.

>> No.11591081
File: 16 KB, 236x289, 9617deed241a89759acedfc18f83614a--breakfast-cereal-morning-breakfast.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11591081

>>11591059
Like Plato totally wasn't, or the rest of the intellectual personalities of ancient greece

The difference between the two cases was that one was an elitist for the sake of it, while the other wasn't aware of the awe that was bestowed upon him. Which is why his thoughts, words and deeds make him holly.

>> No.11591104

I am trying to cut back or just stop masturbating cold turkey but I am addicted to the dopamine rush. It doesn't help to see things I find attractive and my weiner starts buzzing and basically saying, "do it" like Sheev.

>> No.11591179

>>11591024
>And the RCC happens when you let germanic niggers have a say in spirituality
The Roman Catholic Church wasn't founded by Germanics you colossal retard.

>> No.11591192

>>11591179
It was because of the germanics that the schism happened, and if you give people with a lesser developed mind for understanding the divine, you will get fundamental reinterpretations of your religion, that's a historical fact.

>> No.11591204

>>11591192
>and if you give people with a lesser developed mind for understanding the divine, you will get fundamental reinterpretations of your religion, that's a historical fact.
Yeah like the Germanics and Arianism which was opposed by the RCC.

>> No.11591220

>>11591204
After the fall of the Western Roman EMpire the germanics constantly meddled in the affairs of the church when it came to appointing a bishop in Rome, solely for their primitive desires of political control and power and nothing else.

>> No.11591243

>>11591104
Take a shower and leave the house for a bit

>> No.11591299
File: 36 KB, 326x499, 51xWSNlb+XL._SX324_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11591299

>>11587561
>pagan society was comfy and nice like secular liberal society
>ree why did the christians have to be so mean with their stupid repressive teachings, just let people be free
>letting humans run wild in the pagan way has never gone wrong

>> No.11591310

>>11588020
>Christianity is not an Abrahamic faith

You are dumb

>> No.11591324

>>11591310

95% of the jewish bible has anything to do with Jesus Christ.

And the 5% that does is just misquoted lines from the authors of the gospels that tried to explain the life of Christ using the available theology at the time.

>> No.11591338

>>11587561
>muh tolerant pagan society
t. Edward Gibbon

>> No.11591422

>>11587647
Death is the most interesting part of life.

>> No.11591432

I'm into Eastern beliefs mostly (Advaita), but just earlier began reading an online KJV Bible and I'm really liking it. I don't perceive differences in religion, seeing all of them as springing from one common spiritual fount, so I intend to continue studying the Bible and absorbing its wisdom. I was spurred to perusing it when I read Ecclesiastes 1:18 somewhere else online, which I found instantly resonant, and beautiful. Any other books within the Bible I might like?

>> No.11591453

Abba Aio questioned Abba Macarius, and said: 'Give me a
word.' Abba Macarius said to him: 'Flee from men, stay in your cell,
weep for your sins, do not take pleasure in the conversation of men,
and you will be saved.'

>> No.11591590

Do not rail against anyone,
but rather say, "God knows each one." Do not agree with him who
slanders, do not rejoice at his slander and do not hate him who
slanders his neighbour. This is what it means not to judge. Do not
have hostile feelings towards anyone and do not let dislike dominate
your heart; do not hate him who hates his neighbour. This is what
peace is: Encourage yourself with this thought, "Affliction lasts but
a short time, while peace is for ever, by the grace of God the Word.
Amen."'

>> No.11591621

>>11587238
Monks don't

>> No.11591642

>>11591590
>nigger invades your home and starts raping your son
>dude who am i to judge, sorry champ, dude WEED

>> No.11591661

>>11591642
You can solve that problem without emotion. You know that if you don’t intervene, your child would be severely damaged mentally. So you can use reason to kill the rapist. Even if you did use emotion, it could purely be love for your child, and not hatred for the criminal.

>> No.11591712

>>11591243

I don't have anywhere to go and don't like going anywhere. Plus, I'd just jerk it when I got back.

>> No.11591717

>>11590893
Honestly, wannabe jannies are more pathetic than the actual volunteers themselves.

>> No.11591799

Internet Christians have a pretty tough sell these days. Every church out there is pozzed to hell and the ones that aren't are full of lunatics. There's nowhere you could even go to be an ascetic if you wanted to be one, and the only people trying to sell the virtues of asceticism obviously don't practice what they preach because they're using the Internet. Of course, they'll have a quiver of excuses to fire back at this criticism, but in the end the best thing anyone will buy is having an admiration for their romantic version of asceticism that probably doesn't actually exist any more. Anyone who wants to conduct a serious study of the text is almost certainly going to be left either doing it alone or trying to conduct a bible study with literal 80-year-old boomers in their town, because nobody else around them actually gives a damn, and what's the point of a religion if you don't have a local community to go with it? The diaspora of the saints is greater than ever before. All the values a Christian might want to live by are going to reside primarily in their head, since the entire society has been subverted sold out, oftentimes by the very churches that most loudly proclaim God's name.

Jesus wept.

>> No.11591850
File: 125 KB, 962x642, 1439405350067.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11591850

>>11591799
makes the church of the internet all the more comfy. i wish i had a jpg of christ chan getting comfy for the second coming happening, but i don't so just use your imagination for this one

>> No.11591863

>>11591850
>the church of the internet
This gets me thinking, the industrial revolution and the information age has brought about such radical changes in society I think we're due for another a second coming, at the very least in order to have another ministry. The world is so, so different from Jesus' time, I think in an unprecedented way.

>> No.11591918
File: 17 KB, 180x278, Arsenius_the_Great.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11591918

Seeing all the fedoras trying so hard ITT makes me really, really ashamed of how I used to be a fedora, pubicly.... even to the point that one time I caused a big scene at my then girlfriends brothers party one time. Its shameful to think. I am repentant nowadays and constantly keep prayer in my heart but still I fear I cannot be saved.

>> No.11591926

>>11591918
>I fear I cannot be saved.
Nigga you know God's dealt with a lot worse than someone repentant about embarrassing themselves in the past.

>> No.11591933

>>11591926
Yea I do know that but still feel a lot of shame, but thanks

>> No.11591940
File: 10 KB, 234x250, 1506413551888.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11591940

>>11591918
i'm like this but with fapping. also i still fapp tho

>> No.11591942

>>11591933
Those emotions of worry and regret cannot remain if you want to be saved. You need to replace that fear with spirit and have faith in Christ.

>> No.11591958

>>11591942
The fathers do also say that they let themselves weep for theirmsins in private though, so I do let the emotions come if they overwhelm me, but yes always am diligent to keep faith at all times especially when the temptations come
>>11591940
Lol stop fapping dude its worth it, and recall this shame you feel now if you are tempted by it

>> No.11591968

>>11591799
That's why it's up to us to become priests and work our way to cardinalship so that the next papacy is one in the mold of the fictional Pope Pius XIII and turn that up a notch. Restoration of latin mass, territorial expansion, seeing that the Holy See becomes a nuclear state. The list goes on.

>> No.11591970

>>11591968
yeah, this would be nice, but i've jacked off to way too much hentai to ever be anyone's spiritual guide

>> No.11591972

>>11591970
pokemon hentai, no less

>> No.11591976

>>11587238
>They all have free time every day
Kek, for deep prayer and contemplation. Not for shitposting on /lit/ and reading V.

>> No.11591997

>>11591976
He said non religious literature, not 4chan.

>> No.11592282

>>11590893
neck yourself you fucking brainlet

>> No.11592454

>>11590893
unsupported
>>11591717
>>11592282
based

>> No.11592460

>>11591850
>they said I could be anything I wanted, and I let the world burn

>> No.11592475
File: 86 KB, 455x675, 1499726838824.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11592475

>>11586018
12/12 anon, great work

>> No.11592481

>>11587647
the end crowns all

>> No.11593785

>>11591968
Do Christians actually believe this will happen?

>> No.11593901

>>11591968
>has LARPing gone too far?

>> No.11593905

>>11593785
Yes
>>11593901
It hasn't gone far enough.

>> No.11593977

>>11593905
That's... embarrassing.

>> No.11593992
File: 38 KB, 600x568, 1520572359373.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11593992

>>11593977

>> No.11593998

>>11585718
No

>> No.11594033

>>11593992
Well, I'm looking forward to the coming Right Wing Crusader Squads that are just around the corner. Can you guys pick up the pace a little bit?

>>
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