Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Maintenance is complete! We got more disk space.
Become a Patron!

/lit/ - Literature


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 419 KB, 436x906, 92e764fd58bff449755a69951db5ad38.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12204743 No.12204743 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Why is mindfulness thought of as applicable to everyone with anxiety when the neural pathways in traumatised people do not respond in the same way as the neural pathways in non-traumatised people? So while mindfulness is great for people who are stressed in relation to everyday pressures, it can be a negative experience for people with trauma

>> No.12204787

>Dr Miguel Farias, a psychologist and researcher from Coventry University, says: ‘For about five per cent of people, these practices have a paradoxical effect. It makes them much more anxious, induces panic attacks and even psychosis.’
>According to Dr Farias, more than 20 studies – involving thousands of participants – over the past two decades have demonstrated the potentially damaging effect of mindfulness meditation.
>‘Many people have childhood traumas or underlying mental health problems that may be undiagnosed,’ notes Dr Farias. ‘Being forced to sit alone with their thoughts brings out dark memories which they can’t cope with.’ He believes the adverse effects have been overshadowed by a celebrity-fuelled ‘mindfulness hype’.
>A recent study celebrated mindfulness for reducing war veterans’ symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder – such as flashbacks, intrusive thoughts and night terrors – by 20 per cent.
>But two months after the intervention, soldiers’ symptoms returned and were just as debilitating.
>A 2014 study by researchers at the University of Pittsburgh found a daily, 25-minute mindfulness exercise actually increased blood levels of the stress hormone cortisol in anxious office workers.
>Dr Mark Salter, a consultant psychiatrist in East London, has also witnessed the fallout of mindfulness. He says: ‘Most psychiatric illness, whether diagnosed or undiagnosed, is rooted in trauma. People draw on a wide range of distracting coping mechanisms to deal with these day-to-day,’ he explains. ‘Mindfulness involves stopping all these mechanisms at once which can become distressing, often inducing severe panic and anxiety.’
>For this reason, the UK’s leading venue, The Oxford Mindfulness Centre, exclude those with suicidal thoughts and psychiatric disorders from treatment.
>Dr Farias believes that, by definition, those accessing mindfulness are more mentally fragile than the general population.
>‘By engaging in this therapy, they are seeking a solution to uncomfortable feelings,’ he notes.
>One study found that half of individuals attending a mindfulness retreat felt more depressed, anxious and disorientated than before. One experienced delusions, eventually leading to a suicide attempt.
>Scientists believe the reason mindfulness has this unwanted effect could lie with the brain’s ‘alarm centre’, the amygdala.
>Brain-imaging studies by University of Michigan researchers show mindfulness reduces connectivity between the amygdala and the subgenual anterior cingulate cortex – crucial for emotional processing.This can mean less worry for some, but anxiety and panic for others.
>Dr Farias warns: ‘Without a trained psychological professional, it can be seriously harmful. Mindfulness is not for everyone.’

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6474413/The-dark-mindfulness-Growing-evidence-therapy-harmful.html

>> No.12204822
File: 308 KB, 1187x1179, hence the misery of extraversion.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12204822

>>12204743

Identifying with your thoughts is a kind of Hell.

>> No.12204831

>>12204743
youre supposed to get past these things, either learn how to diet, or learn to like your body in its slightly fat state

>> No.12204846

>>12204831
exactly. mindfulness made it worse.

>> No.12204873

>>12204846
mindfulness made her aware of it in the first place, then she's supposedto deal with it

>> No.12204874

>>12204743
This article blows it way out of proportion (as expected of dailymail, I guess). These kinds of reactions are quite rare and the findings on the effectiveness of mindfulness for a variety of trauma are quite robust.

Here's a decent overview:
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-psych-042716-051139

>> No.12204880

>>12204873
yes, and indifference is not how u deal with it. mindfulness encourages this somewhat zombie state of someone who doesn't do. so, when she started to practice mindfulness, it dragged her back down after the initial realizations. imo, mindfulness makes the ups and downs more intense, and that is not good for someone with very high range between high and low already.

>> No.12204884

>>12204874
its for 5% of people. yes, it's "overblown", but it's relevant for people who are in the 5%. media makes everything louder than what they really are.

>> No.12204886

>>12204743
Its a fucking placebo scam either way
Eastern Mysticism belongs in the thrash

>> No.12204887

>>12204880
I said 'diet or accept it'. Dieting is not hard, despite what fat people think, if you have even a small amount of control over yourself. If you really can't do it, then accept it, there is nothing earth-shattering about being a bit fat, it's just your ego, your pride that make you think it is.

>> No.12204895

>>12204822
>Identifying with your thoughts is a kind of Hell.
Yeah its called actually being a person you fucking nutjob

>> No.12204906

>>12204884
I responded because it sounded like the OP was implying that mindfulness is especially problematic for trauma when the opposite is true.

There's no guarantee that ANY kind of therapy will be 100% effective for everyone.

>> No.12204937

>>12204895

No.

>> No.12204939

>>12204743
mindfulness is a capitalist product for western automatons to deceive them into thinking they are actually self-aware.

>> No.12204942

>>12204937
if you can't make an actual argument just don't post

>> No.12204946

>>12204787

Exactly. So in conclusion fuck Pascal

>> No.12204951

>mental illness
Literally all down to diet and lifestyle.

>> No.12204954

>>12204937
>I'm feeling angry at the world I wonder what I should do
>oh wait no time to push those feelings down and away thats an appropriate way to deal with life

>> No.12204960

>>12204951
>Trust me, I have my PhD in broscience from the university of 4chan.

>> No.12204965

>>12204951
>>12204887
>Maddy has since found relief in another type of psychotherapy. ‘I’ve been learning why I need to feed my body properly,’ she says. ‘Trying to stop thinking was never going to help me. Only when I tackled how I saw my body could I fix my relationship with food.’

>> No.12204994

>>12204954

Coincidence between examining something and identifying with it is never required.

>> No.12205008

>>12204994
Identity is already presupposed in the act of being an examiner itself you goofy cunt

>> No.12205030

>>12205008

What does this sentence mean? "Identity"...with?

>> No.12205035

>>12204743
I don’t buy this. Nearly everyone has been traumatized.

>> No.12205049

>>12205030
That the examiner has an identity, examining presupposes sensitivity, cognition. To speak of the examiner supposes linguistic thought. To choose to speak about the examiner is proof of will.
All in all you hold yourself to be a twisted being to deny the concordence and any failure of identity is the deep problem itself

>> No.12205060

>>12205008
Good job at moving goalposts brainlet.

>> No.12205070

>>12205060
From what, you being your own mind?
If there's already agreement there is a thing with an identity "examining thoughts" which is a silly expression but I'll allow it for now what legitimate reason is there in not supposing the examiner is identifiable with the thoughts?

>> No.12205074

>>12204743
Holy shit, some people are too defective to live. Imagine not being able to tolerate being alone with your own thoughts.

Civilization did this, these things wouldn't be able to survive childhood in a more natural state.

>> No.12205110

>>12205070

I can identify with any and all of my thoughts, but not necessarily so. Capacity is not necessity.

>> No.12205125

>>12205110
Identity if a fact of reality not a choice you pink fucking retard. What you're talking about isn't identity its literally cognitive dissonance, a self declared lack of ability to think rationally and deal with reality

>> No.12205146

>>12205125

At least I can identify with English grammar. The only coherent part is the reference to cognitive dissonance, which is still unrelated to what I'm saying, even as per Wikipedia definition. I hope that at least the irony is not lost on you.

>> No.12205172

>>12205049


I mean I let this one slide but what the hell? It sounds like Trump's nuclear weapons...soliloquy. That this is supposedly an argument for common sense and such is tremendously ironic.

>> No.12205176

>>12205146
>Y-yyeh well you're wrong but I won't state why
Not an argument

>> No.12205183

>>12204743
KIERKEGAARD VINDICATED

>> No.12205190

>>12205172
>orange man bad

>> No.12205212

>>12204887
unless you've had an eating disorder, you're talking out of your ass. you're not wrong that it's easy to diet, but normalizing your eating habits and permanently stabilizing is simply not possible. I got to something analogous with AA and I have people there who have been going there for more than 10 years. Clearly the pathology goes deeper than "eat less lol"

inb4 "diet"
I have, I lost 110 pounds in one go at one point, and it really wasn't that difficult, just extremely time consuming.

>> No.12205266

>>12205212
>just extremely time consuming.

How the fuck is eating less time consuming

>> No.12205278

>>12204743
Mindfulness makes you face your problems, not magically vanishes them.

>> No.12205309

ITT: fags that can't reach the fourth jhana

>> No.12205313

>>12205266
You're unable to live a completely normal life when trying to lose a large amount of weight. I had a deficit of around 1.2-1.3k calories every day, and it certainly hinders normal functioning. Working full time during that is almost impossible. Social events are also difficult, as food and alcohol are a huge part of our culture. Even with a 1.3k calorie deficit/day, losing 110 pounds took me around 9-10 months.

During this time, I literally only, AND ONLY ate things that I either cooked myself or bought, opened and measured myself. If you don't see how that's restrictive, you're retarded.

>inb4 "just eat slightly more dummy"
In order for me to feel "normal" enough to function, I can maximally eat around a 500 calorie deficit. Losing any weight with a 500 calorie deficit is fucking retarded. Try keeping a strict or semi-strict diet for two years and come back to me.

Now, if you want to mock fat people for being dumb little shits, be my guest. But when you make the claim that dieting is easy, you're missing the part where dieting is not done in a vaccum. It takes mental effort to adhere to it.

>> No.12205346

Well, I'm a walking collection of mental illnesses. I've been diagnosed with the following:
>bipolar
>generalized anxiety disorder
>bulimia
>ptsd
>borderline
>treatment resistant depression

I also hallucinate at times and always see tracers. that's probably my own doing.
Obviously not all of these diagnoses are correct, but the point is that there's a lot of shit going on and it is difficult to treat.

Here's thing about mindfulness: yeah it makes you feel the trauma and negative emotions and shit. You need to do that, you need to accept it and be at home with it. That is, feeling at home with the responses of your body. Trauma is fucked when you feel the surge of emotions and replay the events in your mind and try to think your way out of. That is when you spiral and end up cutting or whatever.
When you are actually mindful, and you get triggered, you can just feel the waves of chemicals your body dumps into your body. And you learn very good things when you can ride that wave. For example, that anxiety attacks can be physically pleasurable. That you may need to adjust your goals during a period of depression and treat your day as if you are simply extremely tired. Being very tired is not so bad.

It still isn't a panacea though. You can be diverted away from mindfulness by ordinary life and then become trapped in destructive thought.
So if you're really fucked in the head, you should just do everything. Take the meds, lift weights, set goals, eat right, meditate, drop acid, the whole shebang. If you do all that, you can become functional and happy and productive and social and it's great.
HOWEVER, you can't go from the bottom to doing all those things. It is even hard to start slowly and build to it. There must be an initial lever.

>>12205313
Food is the hardest addiction, you can't go cold turky. I gave up and got my stomach stapled.

>> No.12205382

honest question: does "mindfulness" differ substantively from prayer beyond the secular language?

>> No.12205394

>>12205382
They are nothing alike.

>> No.12205397

>>12204965
>‘Trying to stop thinking was never going to help me.
There's the problem. How the fuck do Westerners get mindfulness (ie. Literally thinking about what's happening and how you think about it) confused with not thinking? I don't understand where this disconnect comes from.

>> No.12205400

>>12204743
Reminder that Mindfulness exercises are Satanic and you need to repent.

>> No.12205441

>>12205346
>Food is the hardest addiction, you can't go cold turky.
True. Straight and narrow, brother.

>> No.12205463

>>12205397
It isn't thinking about whats happening, it is experiencing what is happening. Your mind isn't neccessarily still during this, the awarness may shift from breathing to the visual field, to sounds, whatever. The confusion is that while thinking gets in the way of experience, trying not to think is not what you should be doing. You should just be doing something else with your mind.
It may also be because the subjective things that go in your mind are hard to explain, and hard to measure against outside phenomenon. For some people, using your mind to focus on a sensation might be mistakenly called a thought: "I broke my leg and all I could think about was the pain". Well is that person thinking about pain, or is their mind overwhelmed by sensory perception?

For me, a thought is words or images in my mind. When mindful, I can trace the emergence of thoughts, see them come and go without thinking words like "oh, I was just thinking". I just watch the thought leave.

I think you have mindfulness confused with metacognition. They are related concepts, but I would characterize mindfulness as a practical application of metaconition.

>> No.12205470

I'm really skeptical of anyone who advocates "mindfulness" because most of them seem really vapid--it's actually "mindlessness" in many senses, anti-ontological in the most insufferable way possible.
>dude everything's fine lmao just relax and think about positive energy
WRONG

>> No.12205477

>>12205470
You do know that you haven't properly understood the concept of mindfulness, right?

>> No.12205485

>>12205463
>It isn't thinking about whats happening, it is experiencing what is happening
Is thinking involved or not?
>>12205477
I have never particularly cared about the concept of mindfulness and have no interest in doing further research into the subject. It seems like a cult designed to appeal to yuppies.

>> No.12205525

>>12205212
I lowered my BMI from 30 to 20 in a year, and have comfortably stayed that way for 4 years since, independent of how much I exercise.

It's difficult but not impossible to re-wire your eating habits

>> No.12205544

>>12205463
In mindfulness meditation you're supposed to note what arises in your mind, ie. Applied thought. Suppression of thought and thinking comes in the 3rd or 4th jhana, which is not mindfulness and is a whole other beast.

>> No.12205614

>>12205485
Well, no one has a gun to your head. If you don't like it, don't practice it.

>Is thinking involved or not?
During meditation, you gently avoid it. But, it's a practice that takes years to master, and thoughts are instructive as you learn. But it isn't the content of the thought that is interesting, it is the nature of thought itself. Lack of thought isn't synonymous with lack of activity, intellect, or creativity. There is no zombiness, there is just hightened attention towards sensation.

>>12205544
Well I don't know what the fuck jhana is so maybe I'm completely off. So if I'm doing mindfullness meditation, and I think about ferrarris, should I note that and investiage why I was thinking about ferraris "is it the pschological tricks of marketers? Is it appreciation of mechanical art?" etc, or should I just let the thought disolve into the background and watch it's progress and feel the negative space it leaves behind? Because I'm doing the latter.

>> No.12205622

>>12205212
>I lost 110 pounds
>there are anons out there who lost nearly as much as I even weigh
how tf do you even get that fat to begin with.
>>12204787
>needing coping mechanisms
Toughen the fuck up buttercup. Just read Kino no Tabi. The world is not beautiful, therefore it is. A fucking weeb novel written on a cellphone just solved the problem 500 western "psychologists" have been whittling a paycheck out of not-solving.
Everyone has some bullshit to deal with, waaah waaaahhhh muh trauma. There's probably some guy on 4channel who has been through worse and is sitting there making light hearted fun of it.
Waaah muh trauma mommy gibs shrink meds nao.
If you weren't raised to be a thumbsucking little faggot you wouldn't have "trauma".

>> No.12205635

>>12205622
>I have no experience of what you are talking about, and thus do not understand it
Just say that next time.

>> No.12205639

>>12205614
>or should I just let the thought disolve into the background and watch it's progress and feel the negative space it leaves behind? Because I'm doing the latter
You're supposed to acknowledge and note the thought, but then let it go. You can't suppress your thoughts just like you can't your senses; but you can learn to let them be passing phenomena. Mindfulness teaches you to mentally acknowledge this phenomena and allows you to let it pass.
For example, drinking water you could mindfully think "water, cool going past my tongue and down my throat" until there's no more water, then you let those thoughts go instead of continuing to think about how refreshing the water was.

>> No.12205656

>>12205639
>>12205614
Investigating the cause of your thoughts is meditation as well, but that's more the four noble truths, which you can go through with mindfulness if the thought you have is particularly stressful.
This, of course, is just what I've personally learned about theravada Buddhism, so excuse me if anything is wrong or confusing.

>> No.12205663

>>12205622
>Toughen the fuck up buttercup. Just read Kino no Tabi. The world is not beautiful, therefore it is. A fucking weeb novel written on a cellphone just solved the problem 500 western "psychologists" have been whittling a paycheck out of not-solving.
>Everyone has some bullshit to deal with, waaah waaaahhhh muh trauma. There's probably some guy on 4channel who has been through worse and is sitting there making light hearted fun of it.
>Waaah muh trauma mommy gibs shrink meds nao.
>If you weren't raised to be a thumbsucking little faggot you wouldn't have "trauma".
Isn't this way of thinking what exacerbates a persons anxiety caused by feelings of constant inadequacy, having inflexible demands like this actually creates emotional disorders?

>> No.12205673 [DELETED] 

>>12205635
>implying
Show me one mentally healthy individual who browses 4channel. If you go all the way through to the depths of despair and out the other side, the world lights up and you accept things. In other words literally "The world is not beautiful, therefore it is." a weeb novel is more insightful than all of western psychology.
>grew up in dire poverty to abusive parents, endured extreme social isolation since childhood, an abusive relationship in my teens, been raped multiple times, been homeless, resorted to prostitution to get by
>not a whiny faggot about it
Just make it to the other side. The problem is you fags want to cover up your "trauma" with coping mechanisms. You need to challenge it head on and push yourself to the limit, and after that you reach enlightenment. Stop trying to cover up the bad feels. Accept them, understand them, and overcome them. You don't need "coping mechanisms" if you have a sane, objective outlook on it.

>> No.12205703

>>12205074
It's actually the opposite. Industrial civilisation has imparted a metric fuckton of unconscious fears and neuroses to your average human. Most people simply drown out or ignore these fears, but for some people this is impossible to do. When people like this get overwhelmed, it's not because of an inherent defect within themselves. It's because of an inherent defect in our civilisation.

>> No.12205758

>>12204743
She was using mindfulness to avoid her thoughts when it's actually about awareness and acceptance. I don't why her psychotherapist knowing her past let her do this by herself without followup. People like this need to do it in a controlled environment and talk through what is happening because it will likely make it worse, to begin with.

>> No.12205779

>>12204743
Mindfulness is a watered down anglo rip off of Schultz's autogenics.

>> No.12205797

>>12205639
That's mostly what I'm doing, but I wouldn't necessarily feel like I need to use words to describe what I feel when I drink the water. I can move my inner eye down to my throat and watch how the water feels.
I'll investigate the causes of thoughts, but no so much when I deliberately practice.
It isn't confusing, I just don't really have any kind of framework for my practice. I read some wiki articles, I try out different things, I use apps from time to time. I heard that transcendental meditation is just "making up a word and repeating it until your mind lacks the energy to articulate the word fully, and becomes meaningless noise" so I did that for years and it was kinda cool. I should crack the books or go to a retreat and get my finger out my ass.

>>12205663
Correct.

>>12205673
You're all over the place. Coping mechanisms aren't consciously developed. Besides, maybe you are genetically well disposed to coping well with trauma. Some people aren't, that's just a fact. Maybe they shouldn't breed, and maybe you should.

>>12205703
Unprecedented access to information is also kinda fucked. Imagine you were a medieval peasant: You know every mud brick in your village, you know the name of every human you have ever seen, you know the seasons and you know every type of animal in your surroundings. Furthermore, you know exactly what is expected of you.
You don't know what the fuck an elephant is, what an African looks like, or how to read. But none of that matters because you've never fucking heard of an elephant. You can leave reading up to your priest or your lord, and otherwise, you know practically everything in your world.
I know far more than anyone alive back then, but I have no certainty. I don't know my neighbour's names, I don't know if I'll have enough time to take advantage of the opportunities I have. I don't know what new skill I should learn in order to have a stable income for the rest of my life. I have to make my living with my mind, which is an unstable position to be in. If you can plough a field once, you can plough it for the rest of your life. My skills need to be constantly sharpened, adapted and changed in order for me to continue. That's the position you're in whether you're an engineer or an artist and everything in-between. Always a new problem with a different solution.

>> No.12205804

You open things when you meditate. Much like psychedelics. Im sure she hurt herself by going about it the wrong way and running away from the things that she needed to face, causing the harm to grow.

>> No.12205831

>>12205797
>I just don't really have any kind of framework for my practice.
I read accesstoinsight.
>I can move my inner eye down to my throat and watch how the water feels.
In my experience this is fine, it's the deliberate intentional thought that counts; not everyone thinks in words.
>I heard that transcendental meditation is just "making up a word and repeating it until your mind lacks the energy to articulate the word fully, and becomes meaningless noise"
There are specific meditational mantras/words/phrases, but the gist is to think the mantra (applied thought) and to keep your concentration on it, bringing it back to that object whenever your stray (sustained thought), until you begin feeling rapture/happiness/the other jhanas, which comes with letting your thoughts subside into "nothingness".

>> No.12205850

>>12205804
When you meditate, you see reality as it really is.
Reality can be pretty fucking scary.

>> No.12205863

>>12204787
Ignoring that psychology is a pseudoscience and that all therapists belong in bondage, this isn’t surprising that weak weepy people can’t attain inner serenity even when given the most basic route for doing so.

>> No.12205879

>>12205831
>There are specific meditational mantras/words/phrases, but the gist is to think the mantra (applied thought) and to keep your concentration on it, bringing it back to that object whenever your stray (sustained thought), until you begin feeling rapture/happiness/the other jhanas, which comes with letting your thoughts subside into "nothingness".

That was my experience, but I don't think SPECIFIC magic words are necessary beyond tradition. I tried thinking "om mani padme hum" over and over when I was a teenager but it was too long. I made up a word that sounded nice and was easy to think over and over and I began feeling something that I called "transcendece" but maybe there's a different technical word for the sensation.
Transcendental Meditation is a copyright protected brand or whatever and they teach this technique but charge you $2k for the special magic word that is unique to yourself. I think part of why they are successful is because the made up word has no assosiations with any concept. If you are using buddhist words, you think about the concept as you go, which might be cool, but without a concept you get to see your mind go somewhere very free.

>> No.12205900

>>12205863
>weak weepy people
You're saying "I'm stronger because I haven't had those obstacles". It just means you haven't had those obstacles. If someone has overcome those obstacles, they have been tested and may be stronger than people who have not had those obstacles
>I was homeless and my mom stuck a finger in my ass and I don't whine about it
most of the movements of cause and effect are not visible. You betray your ignorance of a vast complexity when you apply this "logic".

>> No.12205910

>>12205879
>"transcendece" but maybe there's a different technical word for the sensation
Could very well be rapture; noticing pleasure throughout the body.
>charge you $2k for the special magic word that is unique to yourself
Ahaha. This is hilarious for two reasons. One; they're in the right for doing this because you're technically supposed to move into a sangha with a teacher who will teach you all about your super special mantra. Two; for the reason you stated,
> I think part of why they are successful is because the made up word has no assosiations with any concept.
because chanting 'buddho' achieves the Exact. Same. Effect. Buddho is the mantra with no associations in comparison to the mantras where you focus on the meaning behind each word/syllable.

>> No.12205976

>>12204743
>Why is mindfulness thought of as applicable to everyone with anxiety
Because everyone, including those labeled with anxiety, have to deal with sensations. There is really nothing else but sensations that the senses of the body receives.
The anxious person is simply a creation of the anxious person, labeling himself as anxious. For it only exists conceptually in his mind.
What this person have to deal with is the sensations that anxiety gives to the body. Recognizing them for what they are, arising and passing sensations.
By observing sensations without craving or aversion and by keeping yourself concentrated the only thing that is real (the sensations of your body), mindfulness guides you toward self control and the understanding of his reality.

>> No.12206015

>>12205976
So if someone is getting up right next to your head, insulting you day after day, year after year telling you to kill yourself, making you realise how inferior you are at every possible turn, taking enjoyment out of how they are rightfully mentally fucking with you because you are that weak, when you try to ignore them and get on with your work they stop you harrass you and again tell you to kill yourself then how are you supposed to deal with this sensations day after day without fail for years? How do you remain calm and maintain mindfulness with them shouting in your face, seeing them in your nightmares and when you close your eyes you see them screaming in your face, laughing at you? How do you maintain self control and regulation of your sensations and intrusive suicidal thoughts in this reality?

>> No.12206031

>>12206015
You put on your big-boy pants and leave. Pack what you can in a bag and go get help where you can.
Or, you attempt to remedy the situation, because reconciliation is one of the greatest gifts.

>> No.12206049

>>12205313
>But when you make the claim that dieting is easy, you're missing the part where dieting is not done in a vaccum.
He didn't say it was easy. The issue is, how is a fact of life such as prepping and eating a meal, time consuming?

>> No.12206081

>>12206015
Understand that everyone is suffering and that suffering isn't something you get from the outside. You make yourself miserable.
>So if someone is getting up right next to your head, insulting you day after day, year after year telling you to kill yourself, making you realise how inferior you are at every possible turn, taking enjoyment out of how they are rightfully mentally fucking with you because you are that weak, when you try to ignore them and get on with your work they stop you harrass you and again tell you to kill yourself then how are you supposed to deal with this sensations day after day without fail for years?
The person is this situation already know what to do.
>How do you remain calm and maintain mindfulness with them shouting in your face, seeing them in your nightmares and when you close your eyes you see them screaming in your face, laughing at you?
Face yourself.
>How do you maintain self control and regulation of your sensations and intrusive suicidal thoughts in this reality?
Face it. Change it. Perceive it differently. Help others.

>> No.12206100
File: 86 KB, 192x187, 1358947380384.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12206100

>>12205976
>>12206031
>>12206081

>> No.12206114

>>12206100
>>12206015
It sounds like you're not the only one of the two suffering in this situation.
I'm calling you insufferable. Have you considered maybe you deserve your misery?

>> No.12206130
File: 51 KB, 597x532, 1462039077593.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12206130

>>12206100
T U M B L I N G D O W N

>> No.12206138

mindfu shut the fuck up I don't care bitch

>> No.12206190

>>12205614
>If you don't like it, don't practice it.
I already don't, but I also think less of people who DO practice it. Do you want to try to convince me to stop disapproving of it? If so, please, try to convince me. Otherwise I'm going to consider this argument won.

>> No.12206219

>>12206190
>I also think less of people who DO practice it.
Why?

>> No.12206256
File: 147 KB, 1000x1000, 1541130594250.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12206256

>>12204743
>27 years old
>already has grandma face
JUST

>> No.12206300

>all these millennials thinking their range on Crap I will Take from An App is bigger
The only app that would survive that is Facebook and that's because it's already on your home screen and selling your data didn't stop you putting credit card numbers in it. The fact the app takes 10 minutes of listening to it already made it a 3 star app to be lost behind YouTube by audible listeners who are the only people who will listen to a pre recorded app for ten minutes anyway except for neglected infants.

>> No.12206322

>>12206300
the fuck are you taking about

>> No.12206345

>>12206322
You can make the average person with a smartphone as mad as her by changing their apps around. Try it sometime.

>> No.12206353

>>12204743
>Downloads app
>expects life-changing results
Download this app to find out my reaction.

>> No.12206449

>>12206219
Because it's pseudo-spiritual nonsense that people use as a conveniently self-helpful way of not dealing with their own toxicity.

>> No.12206455

>>12204787
>a psychologist
Stopped reading there

>> No.12206498

>>12206449
>pseudo-spiritual
There's nothing pseudo-spiritual about how mental phenomena works. Everything you learn is taught in a logical way based on actual evidence, albeit subjective evidence.
>of not dealing with their own toxicity
The reason why the article in OP is bullshit is because mindfulness made the girl realize she was toxic, and she couldn't cope. If anything, mindfulness does the -exact- opposite of what you just described. It forces you to confront your own toxicity.

>> No.12206571
File: 213 KB, 1500x1000, Tyke-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12206571

>>12206081
>Understand that everyone is suffering and that suffering isn't something you get from the outside. You make yourself miserable.
>>So if someone is getting up right next to your head, insulting you day after day, year after year telling you to kill yourself, making you realise how inferior you are at every possible turn, taking enjoyment out of how they are rightfully mentally fucking with you because you are that weak, when you try to ignore them and get on with your work they stop you harrass you and again tell you to kill yourself then how are you supposed to deal with this sensations day after day without fail for years?
>The person is this situation already know what to do.
>>How do you remain calm and maintain mindfulness with them shouting in your face, seeing them in your nightmares and when you close your eyes you see them screaming in your face, laughing at you?
>Face yourself.
>>How do you maintain self control and regulation of your sensations and intrusive suicidal thoughts in this reality?
>Face it. Change it. Perceive it differently. Help others.
What if it was physical pain, daily torture. How would you perceive physical pain differently?
Semantic therapy only gets you so far

>> No.12206576
File: 111 KB, 583x380, 75a79abd24b3131158bb5e0a927d7105.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12206576

>>12206081
>The person is this situation already know what to do.
What would that be?

>> No.12206755

>>12206571
Observe the pain, its different component and the way you feel it. Observe it arising and passing away. Observe yourself being overwhelm by it.
Pain is a sensation just like every others.
Obviously, its hard to learn mindfulness while under daily physical torture, but it's probably the best skill to have if comes a time where you get into such situation.
>>12206576
Let me know if you find out.

>> No.12206778

>>12206755
based and redpilled

>> No.12206858

>>12204743
>27
She looks older than my 55 year old mom, what the fuck.

>> No.12206967

>>12205485
>I don't like this concept because X
>You don't properly understand the concept then
>Yeah well I don't care about the concept
But then it's the others who are pseudo intellectuals?

>> No.12207129

>>12205346
>Food is the hardest addiction, you can't go cold turky.

lol, carry lunch to work, microwave it
dont store sugar or bread
dont have candy and shit at home
get lender meat and have the butcher cut the fat away
if extreme, dump your blender so you dont gulp a bucket of fruits in liquid form
you are now stuck chewing fibrous food
drink lots of water

>> No.12207132

>>12205382
in essence it's being alone with your thoughts, something a lot of young adults probably dont do for a single minute of the week, when not engaged in work or study, you're comunicating or reading news on the cellphone

>> No.12207152

>>12205346
>always see tracers
What do you mean?

>> No.12207172

>>12205313
>Losing any weight with a 500 calorie deficit is fucking retarded.
how so? do you mean its not a linear proportion?
>1.3k calorie deficit/day, losing 110 pounds took me around 9-10 months.
so wouldnt -500kcal/day turn to -42 pounds in 10 months?
youve been fat for a decade and a hlaf francis, why do you want to lose weight so fast, if -500 is doable, let it become your standard.

you just want to loose 300lbs in two years so you can go back to eating bigmacs, chocolate fudge, but you gotta find a new micropleasure in life that is not eating.

>> No.12207185

>>12204787

>dailymail.co.uk

lmao

>> No.12207238

>>12204831
>>12204873
She's mentally ill, it's not that simple. It doesn't matter if you're driving a Mclaren F1 if it only has 3 wheels you're not going anywhere without help no matter how hard you try.

>> No.12207263

>mindfulness
>women

>> No.12207698

>>12207152
https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Tracers
It's a common visual effect you see on psychedelics. I see them all the time, although not so pronounced as that video. It can probably be blamed on my overindulgence in psychedelics. It isn't really distracting and seems to improve my hand-eye coordination a little.

>> No.12207699

this thread's off topic

>> No.12207786

>>12204743
We can rewrite neural pathways

>> No.12207790

>>12204886
Consciously bringing about 'placebo effects' invalidates it from being considered a placebo, you fucking moron.

>> No.12207815

>>12206858
english

>> No.12207825

>>12204743
dark night of the soul, weird "energy" stuff, ... You can stumble upon plenty of shit with meditation that your local McBuddhist soccer-mom won't know what to do about

>> No.12207829

>>12204743
meditation also brings all the shit that runs on your background slowly to the surface to be purified, but if you don't have the willpower of the support to work through it it won't help

>> No.12207836

Just because it makes a good headline doesn't mean it illustrates the truth

>>12207825
Have you stumbled upon the energy stuff in meditation.

>> No.12207837

>>12204787
>they can’t cope with
C O P E
O
P
E

>> No.12207849

>>12205397
probably NPCs, for them:
not doing things all the time = nothing is happening

>> No.12207855

>>12205382
prayer is passive and you ask for external influence, mindfulness is active and relies only on your own effort

>> No.12207862

>>12205470
>>dude everything's fine lmao just relax and think about positive energy
the literally point of buddhism is that NOTHING is fine

>> No.12207908

>>12207836
>Have you stumbled upon the energy stuff in meditation.
yes, weird sensations on the skin, "knots" and involuntary body movements (kriyas), which can be freaky at the beginning but when you analyze them coldly they are not so different to things like "yawning and stretching" if you know what i mean, it's something your body really wants to do and you can "allow" or if you are really relaxed "it just happens", but you can also easily suppress it

i do buddhism meditation which doesn't really tell you much about "the energy stuff" beyond letting it do its own thing and let it mature into pleasure that encompasses the whole, but haven't experienced anything like that yet

>> No.12208285

>>12204822
Honestly this

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action