Isn't the logical conclusion of the empirical materialist worldview anti-natalism?

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Anonymous Fri Dec 14 21:27:40 2018 No.12229479 [Reply] [Original]

Isn't the logical conclusion of the empirical materialist worldview anti-natalism?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 21:28:43 2018 No.12229481 It's the final redpill but only the first blackpill.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 21:30:40 2018 No.12229485 >>12229479 The natural conclusion to anti-natalism is our natural unstoppable urge to procreate , stop making excuses nerds, life sucks and most people suck but you're a human like everyone else with a need to breed

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 21:32:36 2018 No.12229489 >>12229485 Biologism? At this time of year? In this part of the country? Localized entirely in one midwit?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 21:33:33 2018 No.12229495 >>12229479 No. Why? There's an infinite amount of conclusions for materialists to reach before they accept they will never impregnate a women.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 21:35:53 2018 No.12229502 >>12229479 I think it’s more the logical conclusion of utilitarianism

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 21:50:57 2018 No.12229564 >>12229502 Materialist utilitarianism, then.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 21:56:18 2018 No.12229585 >>12229489 Hows your friday night compared to those who banging someone they love rn?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 22:11:39 2018 No.12229658 File: 41 KB, 800x450, brainlettttttt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12229489 kafkatrap

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 00:03:10 2018 No.12230144
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Is antinatalism the most empathetic, or the most egotistical philosophy?
On one hand, antinatalists want to end all suffering, which makes them ultimate empaths, on the other, their undesire to breed is born out of desire to avoid feeling guilt, denying life for an entirely personal gain is ultimate egotism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 00:06:12 2018 No.12230153 Logic is made up bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 00:06:16 2018 No.12230154 >>12229585 got me to laugh

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 00:07:58 2018 No.12230167 >>12229481 What are some other blackpills?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 02:58:34 2018 No.12230735 >>12229479 We should have a holocaust for anti-natalists. Honestly it is the best for them and the best for us.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 03:04:38 2018 No.12230754 >>12230167 Solipsism

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 03:06:36 2018 No.12230764 >>12230144 How does one "deny life" by not breeding? There is not some potential life, some soul, waiting in the wings for you to go knock up a woman and allow them to be born.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 03:17:37 2018 No.12230796
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>>12230144
Antinatalists are literally just angry virgins that read too much. They continue to live and spout their stupid fucking philosophy claiming it's all about "preventing suffering" as if life is inherently terrible, but what they fail to realize is that they're actually just terrible at life. It really is the ultimate bluepill, because it's often painted red.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 03:17:44 2018 No.12230797 >>12230144 >antinatalists want to end all suffering Not at all. They just want you to know they're subscribed to School of Life and eat Philosophical Honey(tm) every morning.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 04:02:16 2018 No.12230943 >>12230735 >Honestly This is where you fail, brother. Honesty does not manifest in their equations.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 04:05:40 2018 No.12230953 >>12229479 the materialist would recognise that there's more products than ever on the market and he would reproduce for kids will look after you when you cant do it yourself

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 04:29:29 2018 No.12231011 >>12229479 >ANTINATALISM Begone! you poison-brewer!

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 04:36:38 2018 No.12231030 File: 50 KB, 700x500, jad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12230167 Antinatalism is the first black pill. The final one is terrorism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 05:35:38 2018 No.12231083 >>12229479 Antinatalists are all incels making excuses >inb4 I'm an antinatalists who has recreational sex didn't happen lol.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 06:29:29 2018 No.12231204 >>12231083 what about the ones who aren't virgins?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 06:51:04 2018 No.12231242 >>12231083 Off the top of my head I know that Zapffe was married but chose not to have children. I'm sure there are others.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 06:54:07 2018 No.12231252 >>12231242 Yeah but the ones on this site are all depressed virgins making excuses for their lack of drive

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 06:56:55 2018 No.12231258 IM SO FUCKING SICK OF THIS STUPID MEME PHILOSOPHY THREAD GO AWAY

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 07:01:29 2018 No.12231269 >>12231258 Antinatalism is the only philosophy that matters. It renders all else meaningless. Once we go extinct none of it will matter.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 07:03:40 2018 No.12231274 >>12231269 But nothing mattered in the first place

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 07:04:02 2018 No.12231275 >>12229479 Nope. It's rational egoism

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 07:04:56 2018 No.12231278 >>12231274 Then stop telling people they need to have babies.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 07:06:38 2018 No.12231282 >>12229479 >my life is shit >therefore every human life is shit Good meme. Funny thing how most normies I meet enjoy their lives.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 07:29:00 2018 No.12231323 >>12231274 Actually my own self interest matters, to me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 07:36:25 2018 No.12231337 >>12230764 Antinatalists claim life is suffering and therefore bad (ie life is denied). It's suffering for them because they are miserable people leading miserable lives. It's a philosophy of justifying ressentiment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 07:53:40 2018 No.12231372 >>12231337 >It's suffering for them because they are miserable people leading miserable lives. It's a philosophy of justifying ressentiment. So?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 08:03:35 2018 No.12231397 >>12231372 So what? I explained why it's life denying.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 08:10:38 2018 No.12231410 >>12229479 The empirical materialist worldview is gay

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 08:26:15 2018 No.12231452 >>12229479 The world would definetely benefit from you not producing any offsprings OP

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 08:53:08 2018 No.12231525 File: 123 KB, 540x411, 9fn3ko1_540.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I strongly disagree, but if you don't want to have kids what reason would I have to convince you otherwise? With no investment into the future you're irrelevant.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 09:04:18 2018 No.12231560 >>12231204 Dont exist >>12231242 Easy choice when you're not allowed to consumate the marriage

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 09:09:51 2018 No.12231581

>>12231083
>HURRR INCELS
Reflect on how retarded you sound. Not only you can't provide a counter-point to antinatalism so you attack antinatalists personally instead, but you fail even at that - antinatalism stands against procreation, not against sex period. In fact, having sex yet not conceiving is quote an antinatalist thing to do, most people who lead healthy sex lives in a way practice antinatalism, it's just that at some point peer pressure and accepted morality forces them into doing it once "for the babby"

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 09:42:21 2018 No.12231600

>>12231581
Exactly, wanting to have a little retard that you have to intensively care for, for fucking ATLEAST 1 decade is brainlet-levels of thinking. If you want to have a child so bad just adopt a 6 year-old from Africa, because he will thank you everyday for not starving like the rest of his village.
But instead you want your own white little dipshit that will just whine and wish you were dead because you didn't buy him the new cuckPhone 17 S

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 09:42:42 2018 No.12231601 >>12231581 t. seething incel

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 09:45:25 2018 No.12231607 File: 11 KB, 501x585, 1524220429427.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12231600 >oy vey stop having white children goyim, help save those starving niglets!

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 09:51:05 2018 No.12231623

>>12231525
lol
>>12231560
lol
>>12231600
You have a point but you are expressing it a little childishly. I think a better way to phrase it is that it just doesn't make sense to bring a new person (and hence new suffering) into the world when you could care for the people already brought into existence against their will.

My anti-natalism is partly from Singer style utilitarian world-view, and partly aversion to risks.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 09:54:49 2018 No.12231643 File: 77 KB, 1300x1300, 1536815361547.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12231623 you're anti-natalism is turd

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 09:58:21 2018 No.12231662 >>12231643 Yes but I can argue for mine turd rigorously. It just doesn't make sense to do so on an anonymous hentai fanfiction forum.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 10:22:56 2018 No.12231743 File: 120 KB, 900x551, 1524335836650.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] this sums up anti-natalists perfectly

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 10:40:58 2018 No.12231821 File: 81 KB, 900x551, 1544887376862.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12231743 >questioning a thing that billions of people mindlessly did before you is NPC behavior Okay.jpeg

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 10:58:41 2018 No.12231906 >>12230943 Based

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:02:54 2018 No.12231925 Antinatalism is only logical philosophy

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:13:30 2018 No.12231969 File: 186 KB, 900x851, 1542408290539.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12231821

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:22:07 2018 No.12232003

>>12231821
>questioning
More like spreging out when someone questions your philosophy. What is it with anti-natalists that get them riled up about their ideology thinking they are always right and everyone else is wrong? You guys remind of those retarded vegans that go around telling everyone else they’re murderous psychopaths for doing something that is completely natural and logical.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:25:28 2018 No.12232018 >>12232003 >questions Oh so this what posting a tired meme is. Sorry, I mistook it for plain shitposting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:32:23 2018 No.12232051 File: 46 KB, 326x960, antinatalism.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Also you don't need suffering argument cause just forcing someone into existence is unethical as fuck

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:32:42 2018 No.12232054 >>12232018 im not that guy you're quoting retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:34:49 2018 No.12232071 >>12232051 I want someone to force all anti-natalists into non existence so much...

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:35:38 2018 No.12232075 >>12230764 There unironically is, funnily enough

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:36:19 2018 No.12232079 File: 116 KB, 1280x720, Bcbvv.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why do lifecucks get so triggered when somebody merely suggests that rampant procreation may not be necessary?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:36:21 2018 No.12232080 >>12232071 Go be triggered somewhere else you retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:37:20 2018 No.12232085 >>12232080 No. Genocide is the only thing you deserve, you are literally the most disgusting things to walk the face of the Earth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:37:27 2018 No.12232087 >>12232071 They're forcing their own kind into nonexistence.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:39:33 2018 No.12232094 >>12232085 Because we want to prevent suffering we are disgusting?

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:39:42 2018 No.12232095

>>12232087
>forcing
I'm not forcing anyone into anything. Antinatalism may be the most humane philosophy ever since it's entirely unconcerned with existing beings. As an antinatalist I literally don't care what you, a being-already-there, do with you life. My thoughts are about those unfortunates who will be thrown into this existence against their will.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:40:33 2018 No.12232100 >>12231581 This. There will always be an idiot throwing around language meant to denigrate while at the same time signaling savyness in any convo

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:40:45 2018 No.12232103 >>12232079 I agree that rampant procreation (overpopulation) is not necessary, in fact undesirable. But procreation itself is necessary, or else we'd be extinct.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:40:58 2018 No.12232105 >>12232095 stupid natalists still don't seem to understand that

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:42:00 2018 No.12232111 >>12232103 >implying that extincion is bad thing

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:42:02 2018 No.12232113 >>12232095 how can something that doesn't exist be forced to anything?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:42:40 2018 No.12232120 >>12232079 >Why do lifecucks get so triggered when somebody merely suggests that rampant procreation may not be necessary? >>12232105 >stupid natalists still don't seem to understand that

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:42:49 2018 No.12232121

>>12232079
I get "triggered" because it is based on retarded assumptions. The birth rate of the west has already stabilized, before mass migration happened.
The notion that "people should reproduce less" basically just means "whitey die out".

The source of overpopulation is mainly Africa, start there before you finally eradicate Europeans, who already have naturally declining birth rates.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:43:41 2018 No.12232126 >>12232120 kek

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:44:00 2018 No.12232128 >>12229479 If you despise yourself, yes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:44:19 2018 No.12232134 >>12232094 Yes, because you fundamentally hate everything that is good, you aren't even willing to give love a chance. >>12232087 They reproduce verbally, it's a mind virus.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:45:42 2018 No.12232144 >>12232111 then make yourself extinct

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:46:44 2018 No.12232150 >Anti-natalism Cuck: the Philosophy

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:46:49 2018 No.12232152 >>12232134 The bad will always outweight the good you retard antinatalism could only be destroyed by transhumanism where really advanced tech could end suffering in all being then I would stop being antinatalist

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:47:11 2018 No.12232156
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>>12229479

You can't be an atheist and not be a nihilist anti-natalist while remaining intelecctually honest and consistent. All three branches of belief are gay and for virgins btw

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:47:29 2018 No.12232158 >>12232152 >MUH SUFFERING IS LE BAD wow where did all these last men come from??

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:47:40 2018 No.12232160 >>12232152 What is "the bad"?

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:49:47 2018 No.12232170

>>12232152
>The bad will always outweight the good
Entirely irrelevant.

Your hatred of suffering is completely absurd, as most of my experience with "suffering" taught me that it can be valuable.

You are arguing that the only good life is the life you spend as a drone with probes in your brain constantly stimulating happiness, that is beyond retarded.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:50:00 2018 No.12232172 >>12232160 all people could agree that suffering is the bad

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:51:07 2018 No.12232182 >>12232172 But why tho? All people could agree that x is true, that doesn't mean that x is ture.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:51:24 2018 No.12232187 >>12232172 I knew it, antinatalists are just Harrisian utilitarianists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:51:55 2018 No.12232191 >>12232170 Life with simulated pleasure at all time would be most ideal

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:53:05 2018 No.12232199 >>12232191 Antinatalists are bugmen, check.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:53:35 2018 No.12232203 >>12232187 Technically antinatalism derives from negative utilitarianism

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:54:03 2018 No.12232206 >>12232191 Beyond delusional, can you stop the sophistry already? We all know this is wrong. There can be no joy without struggle, no love without hate.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:54:28 2018 No.12232210 File: 7 KB, 225x225, pepe5662.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Riddle me this, natalists: Can you justify procreation (forcing a person into existence with no consent) without also justifying rape (forcing a person into sex with no consent)?

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:54:29 2018 No.12232211

>>12229479
>Isn't the logical conclusion of the empirical materialist worldview anti-natalism?
No, not at all.

The conclusion does not fit the premises and you provided no argument.

Bringing a child into this world who may or may not have a good life is always a roll of the dice and that comes with some moral responsibility. However bringing a person into the world and them having a wonderful life is a very good thing.

Even if this is all there is and it's true you only have your one chance, that doesn't mean that one chance can't be special for some, or at least mostly enjoyable or worthwhile.

Not everyone should have kids though and incapable or negligent parents often set the tone for society's future troublemakers and sticks in the mud.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:55:08 2018 No.12232214
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>>12232152
Suffering may follow pleasure and overwhelm it most of the time, but life is worth living because of those short moments of pleasure.

Think of a diamond, rare and precious. We are in awe of its beauty even if it may be imperfect in shape. If there is a diamond in a dung hill, most of us would take great pains to find it and acquire it. We may suffer doing this but we do so because we appreciate this piece of beauty that stands out among the mass of ugly.

We are more likely to suffer because the world is entropic. But a small bit of order makes a lifetime of chaos bearable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:55:55 2018 No.12232220 >>12232206 Yes you can gain joy without struggle you retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:56:00 2018 No.12232222 >>12232187 Nope Utilitarianism - "existence has bad and good" Antinatalism - "existence is bad"

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:57:16 2018 No.12232227 >>12232210 Yes, I can. My first moral principle is that antinatalism is false and they all should be shot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:57:18 2018 No.12232228 >>12232152 >his worldview is based around a point scoring system of suffering and pleasure peak bug

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:58:18 2018 No.12232236 >>12232220 No you can't. Stop this bullshit already, every person who has spend a day doing anything more then just lying in bed knows you are wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:58:21 2018 No.12232237 >>12232210 Of course. Even ducks rape.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:58:55 2018 No.12232244

>>12232210
>Can you justify procreation
Yeah. Because I can make a bet that the person I fuck into existence could have a good life and I would attempt to make it so. And I wouldn't do it unless I have to.

>without also justifying rape
That's just kooky. Rape is a purely destructive act, you are not invested in a larger project of a bringing about a human life, but rather are just hurting one that's already here.

There is no chance that rape can help someone whereas for some people born, the quality of their life would be so nice as to be preferable to nonexistence.

But if you can't make a reasonable proposition of of providing a child a life that is at least as good as your own or better, it's irresponsible to make kids.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 11:59:08 2018 No.12232246 >>12232210 My sperm gave consent to fertilization her womb. Checkmate

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:01:03 2018 No.12232257 >>12232228 I mostly don't center my life around suffering pleasure system I'm antinatalist cause it will always be unethical to bring someone to existence without their previous consent

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:02:04 2018 No.12232264 File: 791 KB, 724x724, 1537516136656.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12232236 >this avocado is too heavy for my hands, my legs are tired, I wanna go home and play video games, sigh life is full of suffering...

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:03:24 2018 No.12232273 >>12232236 Personally for me, I feel more happiness while lifting weights and doing martial arts compared to being a lazy neet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:03:35 2018 No.12232274 >>12232264 Try again, this is literally retardation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:04:26 2018 No.12232283 >>12232257 >I'm antinatalist cause it will always be unethical to bring someone to existence without their previous consent >without their previous consent Are antinatalists this low IQ?

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:04:35 2018 No.12232284
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>>12232244
Thank you for responding, dear chap. I shall rout your arguments right now
>I can make a bet that the person I fuck into existence could have a good life
>Rape is a purely destructive act, you are not invested in a larger project of a bringing about a human life, but rather are just hurting one that's already here
See, my friend, you haven't dug to the core of the problem here. It's the LACK of consent, in both cases. Say some women enjoy getting raped, they walk around fantasizing of being raped, if you rape such a women her life is enriched. You can also rape a woman and award her with a large sum of money, also making her life better. You can ALSO rape a woman and get pregnant, thus procreating, a good thing in your opinion. The problem still remains, she was forced into a horrible act without her consent, just like a child forced into this life without prior asking. This leads to conclusion that procreation can only be justified along with rape. Will you admit that rape is justified now?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:05:14 2018 No.12232287 >>12232257 Fuck off faggot. When you're procreating you're creating your genetic legacy. Your genetic fucking PROPERTY. You don't ask him consent for living. You DEMAND him to bring glory and success to your family name. Cuck, kill yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:06:07 2018 No.12232291 >>12232287 based and redpilled

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:07:44 2018 No.12232304 >>12232283 If you can't comprehend when you create baby with mind that you forced this being into existence you fucking retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:08:11 2018 No.12232306 >>12229479 There's absolutely no moral conclusion that can be drawn from a materialist worldview.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:09:27 2018 No.12232318 >>12232304 Interesting. Ethical reproduction is premeditated. Unethical reproduction is compulsive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:10:30 2018 No.12232324 >>12232287 You're just slave for your biology retard Also you're egoistical af

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:10:36 2018 No.12232326 >>12232318 >Ethical reproduction Makes as much sense as "ethical genocide" or "ethical robbery"

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:11:22 2018 No.12232332 >>12232326 Not him. >ethical genocide The Holocaust. >ethical robbery Taxes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:12:09 2018 No.12232338 Way better and more logical than infanticide.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:13:00 2018 No.12232345 >>12232324 >Also you're egoistical af Giving commands to your children with no questions asked is not "egoistical". It's something parents do (well, apparently not parents of antinatalist fucks).

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:15:25 2018 No.12232356 >>12232345 Entire concept of parenthood is egoistical

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:19:54 2018 No.12232381

>>12232284
Well thanks for responding to my argument. It seems you are trying to justify rape. Are you that hard up? If so, I feel sorry for you in away.

And I have to say you logic is consistent, but a set of statements can be internally consistent and false in its conclusion. Unless you are arguing you shouldn't rape or make babies.

If there are no more babies there are no more people, so do you not want any more people? We've all woken up on the wrong side of the bed old chap.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:26:08 2018 No.12232420
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>>12232381
>so do you not want any more people?
Indeead I am, my good gent! The continued existence of the human race is wholly unnecessary and moreso malignant if the means for it have to be drawn from the same premises that justify acts of evil such as sexual abuse.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:26:33 2018 No.12232425 >>12232332 This. >>12232356 Agree. This is where I think antinatalism is a correct movement towards truth.. The obverse of this is parenthood for the sake of construction, (of the nation, of the world) which necessitates ethical reproduction.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:27:01 2018 No.12232427 File: 20 KB, 400x299, xrat2.jpg.pagespeed.ic.PmzcqH4WYX.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12232236 Yes you can

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:29:16 2018 No.12232443 >>12232427 We all know this is false, everyone who has ever been to the gym semi regularly or achieved something through hard work realizes this is wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:31:07 2018 No.12232456 >>12232443 >not realizing mouse in said picture gets pleasure effortlessly by tapping his pleasure center of the brain >being this much of brainlet

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:31:13 2018 No.12232457 >>12232356 >>12232324 >implying ethical egoism is wrong Read Rand and Stirner or something.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:32:51 2018 No.12232467 >>12232456 Isn't this the experiment where mises were given a endless amount of happiness and they started to die out? What happiness, but this just proves my point.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:34:33 2018 No.12232481 >>12232467 Yup but we can keep people alive with IV to expierence nonstop euphoria for the rest of existence

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:35:12 2018 No.12232485 >>12232456 So antinatalists are ratbrains? Ok.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:35:14 2018 No.12232486 >>12232481 Which is no different then keeping them in constant pain.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:41:02 2018 No.12232513 >>12232457 I meant egoistical in context of that retard I was replying to

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:44:16 2018 No.12232530 >>12232486 How so? Rat seems pretty happy. Actually similar experiments were done on people and it was about as addictive as drugs but tolerenent buildup was never established. Its peak hedonism

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:50:30 2018 No.12232560

>>12232530
>Its peak hedonism
Exactly, the worst torture imaginable.

Emotions are based on variation, if you seriously "love everybody" in truth you really love no one, as only the qualitative differences in your emotions are what defines love in the first place.

The same goes from you, this only really arises from changes in happiness and intuitively this should be pretty clear. After a day of hard work sitting on the couch reading is enormously enjoyable as opposed to doing the same exact thing after slacking of for a couple of weeks.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:51:26 2018 No.12232565

>>12232530
Rat was imprisoned in a matrix of pleasure designed specifically for this purpose by a higher intellect. Rat had no chance to rebel, and indeed cannot, even if it could, -- even if its rebellion would amount to anything -- and has been enslaved to himself, by an outside force.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 12:52:03 2018 No.12232569 >>12231282 Antinatalism has nothing to do with the enjoyment of existing lives. Your point is as real as an unconcieved child's feelings.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:02:56 2018 No.12232622 >>12232236 The good of silent stillness is free.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:04:55 2018 No.12232633 >>12232237 Obvious bait but a good point to make a note on: Just because biological urges say you have to do something doesn't mean you do, or that it's right.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:11:46 2018 No.12232669 >>12232425 Except ethical reproduction isn't real, and the preservation of an invasive and destructive race is even further from ethical.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:17:42 2018 No.12232703

>>12232560
You're advocating for an unnecessary existence where the only joy is derived from labor. I agree that joy comes from work for many, but many that are born do not experience that joy, or are somehow limited to it. Why have a child knowing they must spend their lives doing pointless, usually difficult and/or tedious tasks in order to achieve gratification?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:18:21 2018 No.12232707 >>12229585 How does that define what is logical?

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:21:47 2018 No.12232723

>>12231337
I'm a very happy person and im antinatlist. Just because you imagine and thus proceed to generalise that all antinatalists must hate life doesn't mean thats the case. We simply accept a view which almost all philosophers argued including Siddhartha Gautama - That life (or consciousness) is suffering and find it hard to bear the egotistical weight of having a child.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:24:50 2018 No.12232735

>>12231525
The fact that you think that bringing a life into suffering (to partially ease your own suffering but not really, a 'healthy' distraction fortified by religious philosophy and good/evil life/death dichotomy) is what helps you remain relevant is a very clear indicator of your intelligence.

The reason you wont try to convince us is not because we will not change our views if you present a good argument. We are rational minds but simply your inadequacy to procure a good argument thereof.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:24:55 2018 No.12232736

>>12232669
>Except ethical reproduction isn't real
>the preservation of an invasive and destructive race is even further from ethical

Subhumans reproduce compulsively. They rut and propagate without heed for the future. The ethical human reproduces to reconstruct the noble blood line, to bring into existence a people, to manifest a world, and to ultimately improve the world.

Most people who rut these days belong to the 'destructive and invasive race.' The ethical human does not reproduce in this time of chaos.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:26:51 2018 No.12232743

>>12232703
>unnecessary existence
What the fuck are you on? Unnecessary for what? To feel joy or love, certainly not.

>Why have a child knowing they must spend their lives doing pointless, usually difficult and/or tedious tasks in order to achieve gratification?
Because life is ultimately worthwhile. What pathetic non humans do you have to be to not get that most people consider life to be of worth and a valuable good.
Even if nothing has any meaning at all, that doesn't mean our emotions don't exist, maybe life is truly unnecessary in the grand scale of the universe, but at least we can enlighten the world by burning like flames.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:27:13 2018 No.12232749 >>12229485 >life sucks wew lad

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:27:59 2018 No.12232751 >>12232736 >The ethical human does not reproduce in this time of chaos. Why not? That is when he and his children are needed the most.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:28:33 2018 No.12232755 >>12232723 Natalist behaviour could be described by terror managemnt theory so why we losing our time arguing with dump natalist when we just could tell them to read some Schopenhauer book

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:29:02 2018 No.12232760 >>12232111 this post is correct but not for the reasons you think also checkt 'em

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:29:51 2018 No.12232766 >>12232560 >Emotions are based on variation No emotions are based on dopamine noraphinefine and seratonin. How do you think pharmaceuticals works?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:29:52 2018 No.12232767 >>12232743 Can you guarantee those things to your child? Will they love you for the love you show them? Maybe if you are the embodiment of a perfect parent but unlikely. The only thing guaranteed is suffering.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:30:05 2018 No.12232772 >>12232751 >Why not? Because this particular iteration of the world is due for reset.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:30:56 2018 No.12232782 >>12232755 Heh, that is true. I guess I waste my time because of the empathy i have to my fellow NPC's :)

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:31:12 2018 No.12232784 >>12232772 Again, that is when he and his children are needed the most.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:31:50 2018 No.12232785 >>12232743 Life may be worthwhile on grandscale of universe if you accelerate tech enought and merge every human with strong AI cause then you can make really big shit in universe

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:32:09 2018 No.12232789 As much as i am for antinatalism i see it as futile, as nothing cannot be expeirenced.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:32:19 2018 No.12232790 >>12232766 Don't ever talk to me again, materialist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:33:47 2018 No.12232801 >>12232789 This is the only real argument in this thread against it.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:34:23 2018 No.12232804
File: 22 KB, 333x500, humanraceconspiracy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12232560
>>12232443
Look at the happy wagekeks
>The tolerance that we, the people, have for submitting ourselves to a life of toil gives one a sense of why the rulers of this world have such contempt for us and enact their villainies whenever the mood strikes them. Consciousness is passed out to everyone; ambition and intelligence (with or without guile) are reserved for the Few. They are the elect; we are the electorate. Their game is to pretend to serve us, but we are the servants and they are the masters. Genius is welcome to the party of power when it can produce something its patrons want - once artworks, now weapons. The rest of the population, those who are not well endowed with street smarts or dominated by an ambition to dominate, need the power of the Few to gorge them with moral nourishment - a sense of order and security, a sense of being part of something greater than themselves, and, naturally, a sense of the future. In substance, these are also the services of religion, and anyone who is buying into one is a prime customer or victim of the other. This explains the traditional alliance between these power groups. As Machiavelli observed, two of the canniest means for crowd control are “good arms” and “good religion.” The originator of realpolitik, Machiavelli knew that both Bibles and battalions were indispensable for keeping the mob under control and husbanding “good” states such as those operated by the Medici, who, as we now know, were only also-rans among the mad tyrants racing over the course of history.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:34:29 2018 No.12232805 >>12232789 What do you mean?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:35:27 2018 No.12232810 >>12232784 That's an egotistical stance.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:36:58 2018 No.12232815

>>12232767
>The only thing guaranteed is suffering.
So what, we already debated and people seemed to agree that suffering isn't bad in general. You just went a couple of dozens back to start the circle again, I really have no interest in going over this for the nth time.

>>12232785
Life is always worthwhile. Especially intelligent one, the struggle alone is meaning enough to keep on living and continuing life.

>>12232810
If by "egotistical" you mean caring for others, then I suppose you are right.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:37:18 2018 No.12232818 >>12232801 and one that is easily swept aside if the soul does not exist which is likely.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:39:08 2018 No.12232822 >>12232815 Again you're just behaving according to Terror management theory

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:39:15 2018 No.12232823

>>12232805
When you are born you expierence. All the infomation is recieved to you through biological means. When you die you no longer expierence.
But it is like before you are born you cannot expierence it therefor there has to be someone/thing doing the experiencing

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:39:19 2018 No.12232825 >>12232804 >happy wagekeks But I am not. I am mostly just doing University stuff at the moment. If you think the bad part about wagekeking is struggling you are retarded, the bad part is the constant suffering as the world goes to shit.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:39:33 2018 No.12232828

>>12232736
An ethical and knowledged human would know that suffering is inevitable, and thus would not reproduce regardless. Producing humans in any way, shape or form is vicariously promoting the (albeit natural, yet still bad) death of wildlife, destruction of habitats, and suffering imposed upon those humans themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:41:42 2018 No.12232843 >>12232822 No, the only time I am afraid of death is past midnight alone in my bed. But I truly believe my rationalizations are actually justification enough for life.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:46:12 2018 No.12232869

>>12232815
>If by "egotistical" you mean caring for others, then I suppose you are right.

This is where antinatalists are correct in stating that parenthood is an egotistical concept. You are not caring for others by reproducing, you are burdening yourself with the responsibility to raise and provide for a family and children in a fallen world. This is a doubly burdensome and difficult task that likely ends in failure unless stupendous personal success is attained. Ontological disintegration is highly likely in this current time. Not only do you damn yourself, you damn your children. Thus, the ethical human does not reproduce.

People are always looking for a reason to rut, and this idea that "me and my children are needed" is the most aggrandizing.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:47:59 2018 No.12232873

>>12232828
>Producing humans in any way, shape or form is vicariously promoting the (albeit natural, yet still bad) death of wildlife, destruction of habitats, and suffering imposed upon those humans themselves.

This is only true in a world where humans have degenerated into animals themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:48:39 2018 No.12232875 >>12232869 Oh sorry, I thought I was talking to the guy who said: >The ethical human reproduces to reconstruct the noble blood line, to bring into existence a people, to manifest a world, and to ultimately improve the world.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:48:43 2018 No.12232876

>>12232743
What point have you in creating a child, is what I mean as "unnecessary". Love and happiness cannot be deprived from the nonexistent. They cannot feel loss at having never been born. And to elaborate on my personal stance, I am all for the currently living to experience joy and goodness. But there are many that don't experience that, and as others in this thread have stated, you cannot guarantee that joy for your children. It is best that they never have existed so that they never inflict, nor experience, pain. Look to those that kill themselves, or as you have pointed out, lay in their beds day in and day out. If they are the kind of person that is happy after doing labor, it's logical to assume there is something stopping them from doing so. If you were to be born with, or gain later on, a mental or physical disability preventing such satisfaction, I would hardly call that life worth living. There's no inherent joy in life, while there is certainly inherent dissatisfaction and pain, a lot of which goes unresolved. So that is what I mean when I say that existence is unnecessary, and to risk the life of your child being one of the minority that will not enjoy said life is immoral and wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:54:17 2018 No.12232902 >>12232875 Haha. Personally, I am waiting for the hard reset. And when I say hard, I mean hard. Part of ethical reproduction is knowing when the fuck to do it and when not to. Now is not the time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:54:32 2018 No.12232903 >>12232818 How so? i find it futile but at the same time am in agreement that the soul doesnt exist either

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:58:05 2018 No.12232915 >>12232873 I'd advise you read any scientific biological work if you think we aren't. As someone else has pointed out, and from a non-scientific point of view: ducks rape too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:00:38 2018 No.12232922 >>12232915 He meant it philosophically that we are same as animals at biological level but different on mind level But some humans behave like animals on mind level regardless for example animal abusers and similar fuckers

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:03:41 2018 No.12232934 >>12232922 I'm arguing that humans are certaintly animalistic and wild. See humans that breed without any regard for their unborn child, like amy other animal.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:05:46 2018 No.12232949

>>12232876
>Love and happiness cannot be deprived from the nonexistent.
They can't be granted to them either.

Also the possibility of suffering is no argument against existence, on multiple levels.
Firstly everything is risky and just because a risk exists that you suffer doesn't mean something isn't worthwhile secondly suffering isn't inherently bad.

>Look to those that kill themselves, or as you have pointed out, lay in their beds day in and day out.
These are principled anti natalists, who at all costs avoid any risk of suffering. You people are hypocrites.
If you truly cared about minimizing suffering you wouldn't leave your home, you wouldn't dare taking the risk of suffering. Asking a friend to hangout IMPOSSIBLE I might cause him to suffer.

That is honestly what gets me to hate you the most, you love to preach, but you won't act. Fundamentally you refuse to be anti-natalists, as you DO risk suffering and you DO risk causing suffering to others. The reality is that you DO believe that life in itself is worthwhile because ALL your actions indicate that.

If you truly deny life and limit suffering stop moving, just NEET away every day in your bed carefully avoiding any movement and any risk for suffering, don't interact with people, just drink water and eat bread to stop your suffering, be principled for once

>I am all for the currently living to experience joy and goodness
At the risk of suffering? HOW COULD YOU. YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IF PEOPLE TRY TO INTERACT WITH ONE ANOTHER?????? THEY MIGHT SUFFER!!!!
You can't guarantee that looking for joy won't cause suffering so looking for joy is against the principles of anti natalism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:10:02 2018 No.12232964 >>12232934 Yeah but we can release ourselfs of these primitive biological impulses in contrast to other animals

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:15:37 2018 No.12232988

>>12232902
>Personally, I am waiting for the hard reset.
I personally believe in the end of History, as the tragic end to human greatness.
Liberalism has won and slowly it will infect everything and subdue everything.

In that context, not having children might actually be the ethical choice.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:20:43 2018 No.12233006 >>12232964 Not everyone can. Not everyone chooses to. Most humans do it independant of their own knowledge. It's how we're organic animals, humans, and not logical robots.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:27:01 2018 No.12233043 >>12233006 That's reason why we should become post humans and overcome our biology

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:29:49 2018 No.12233057 >>12230764 If that is true, how can you prevent the suffering of a potential life?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:32:09 2018 No.12233070 >>12233043 I'm for it since antinatalism will never gain traction.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:34:56 2018 No.12233094 >>12233043 >>12233070 Prerequisites for successful: transhumanism: sci-fi levels of technology causing sci-fi levels of bio/cyberengineering causing god-tier levels of intellectual growth resulting in something something antinatalism: dont maek babby

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:35:10 2018 No.12233095

>>12233070
I know antinatalism will never be popular among the common people that's why it's not main philosophy I focus on I just think not making kids is more ethical so I trying to spread post humanism cause that could erase suffering once and for all

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:36:40 2018 No.12233108 >>12233094 transhumanism is already happening since we creating better ai everyday

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:38:15 2018 No.12233120 >>12232949 Bait

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 14:45:05 2018 No.12233143

>>12233120
Wrong.

Premise:
Anti natalists want to minimize suffering.
Anti natalists believe the risk of creating suffering is reason to avoid taking the risk, as seen with procreation.

Therefore any act which potentially causes suffering must be avoided at all cost, this includes any interaction with other humans or even making 4channel posts.
If you are an anti natalist, before you respond please consider that your response might cause me suffering and thus is works against your goal of minimizing suffering.
The same goes for all your interactions.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:22:57 2018 No.12233304

>>12233143
You show a blatant refusal to read and comprehend, creating a strawman argument to dismantle--and poorly so--in place of the logical reasoning that has been presented. You can say "wrong" all day like you're Orange Man Bad and shut down any of my arguments through ignorance, but I just pray you're too much of an incel to procreate and I won't bother trying to convince you of anything, for it's a futile effort because you're too much of a brainlet or baiting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:25:57 2018 No.12233316 >>12233304 Stop trying argue with ignorat retards they will never understand what you trying to tell them

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:26:08 2018 No.12233318

>>12233143
If you're already alive and here, taking risks might make some sense because the reward might make you happy. Bringing someone into this world from nothingness is completely unnecessary, and is pretty much guaranteed to cause harm. There's no reason to even take the risk in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:26:25 2018 No.12233321 >>12233304 Point out my mistak No need for ad homs and "brainlet" name-calling, just point to where I am wrong. >You can say "wrong" Your argument was literally "bait". Just so you know, your post has increased the amount of suffering in the world.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:31:41 2018 No.12233335

>>12233318
Considering ridiculously low suicide rates compared to the population I find it extremely hard to argue that more then 1% of the population find their existence to be a mistake.

Making someone suffer through a social interaction has a significantly higher probability to cause suffering then procreation.

>and is pretty much guaranteed to cause harm.
So is social interaction.

>There's no reason to even take the risk in the first place.
The exact same goes for social interaction.

This is an incredibly weak argument, as you are even jumping away from the standards which many anti natalists have proclaimed here.

Also your post has increased the suffering in the world.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:33:55 2018 No.12233341

>>12233316
>Stop trying argue with ignorat retards they will never understand what you trying to tell them
Absolutely THIS. Imagine how intellectually demolished that guy was after I called his post "bait" and then was unable to even mention a single logical error and instead called him a brainlet and incel.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:35:46 2018 No.12233348

>>12233335
If I'm already alive, I will do things to better my position in the long term. These might include suffering, such as going to the gym. If a hypothetical person literally doesn't exist, needs no help, and is not deprived of anything, why bring them here to suffer and die?

>Making someone suffer through a social interaction has a significantly higher probability to cause suffering then procreation.

Five minutes of talking vs a life of work, pain, boredom and death anxiety? No way.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:41:37 2018 No.12233362

>>12233348
>If I'm already alive, I will do things to better my position in the long term.
So you don't care about reducing suffering? You care about joy. So you are a milktoast utilitarian.

>why bring them here to suffer and die?
If on average the existence of the creation of these persons brings more joy then suffering then the reason is exactly the same as the one you give above.

>Five minutes of talking vs a life of work, pain, boredom and death anxiety? No way.
What the fuck are you on about? I talked about probability, not intensity.

So in conclusion, anti natalists don't care about suffering, they are utilitarians who think that procreation is a net negative of happiness on average. Fine, you have just thrown out almost anything I have heard people say in this thread.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:54:56 2018 No.12233402 >>12233348 Precisely.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:56:04 2018 No.12233406 >>12229479 There are no logical ethical conclusions. Read big gravy Dave.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:07:34 2018 No.12233462

>>12233362
Read the word. Anti. Natalism. Against birth. Against suffering. It has NOTHING to do with people currently alive, excepting that they shouldn't have children to prevent that suffering. Do what you will to get through life as happy as you can, just don't cause any more suffering by having a child.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:08:54 2018 No.12233473 >>12233462 How are you supposed to build machines to blow up the demiurge if geniuses aren't born?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:16:21 2018 No.12233513 >>12233473 Just accelerate process by overthrowing capitalism and bringing lemurian time sorcery

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:19:24 2018 No.12233527

>>12233462
I don't care what it is called.
Your premises, which you peolple use to argue that procreation is bad, can also be applied to other situations. You are selectively applying principles, one principle for the case of procreation and a contradicting one to people living now.

That is why you don't point out flaws in my logic, the only thing you did was challenge the argument I COPIED from the people arguing here.

You don't have consistent principles, you
have principles which you apply to procreation to denounce that, but you reject THE SAME principles the moment they are applied to to something else.

At best you are retards, at worst you are sophists.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:28:44 2018 No.12233562

>>12233527
Impregnation begins another cycle. Life is full all cycles. Now if you in an endless loop, do you want to perpetuate it or move out of it? You demand the same out of life as your father, and his father, and his father, and so on. The whole of human history is like one man, continually being born, growing up, lusting after the female form, and finally ejaculating and subsequently dying. But do you demand anything out of life that any of your ancestors did NOT seek? Life does not want to be stuck in endless reproduction--but most men cannot believe that there is anything besides the immortality of the womb.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:35:43 2018 No.12233599 >>12233562 We should be able to finally stop this retarded biological cycle with transhumanism Cyclical life will be always worst kind of horror and only transition to immortal non cyclical lifeform can save us

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:37:30 2018 No.12233605

>>12233562
A complete non sequitur to anything I said.
You don't even bother to argue the points.

Honestly this was really disappointing, I had hoped to talk to someone who has the shred of intellectual honestly, you clearly don't.
You don't apply your principles consistently and you don't even bother to formulate an argument.

I really lost any interest in the garbage "intellectual" you are, /pol/ is more intellectually stimulating then that.

Before you respond:
List you premises and deduce from these premises anti natalism.
Then apply these principles to a person living and list the conclusions which follow from that.
I tried to do that for you, but you ignored it.

And no, I seriously have no interest in entering your funhouse of abstract arguments about circles and continuing life, fuck off with that and actually address my arguments.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:41:23 2018 No.12233611 >>12230167 The only other one I can think of is that most normal girls' assholes don't look like the assholes in porn.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:43:29 2018 No.12233620

>>12233605
>I had hoped to talk to someone who has the shred of intellectual honestly
Antinatalism is the newest trendy thing among midwit teenage pseuds. You're not going to find anything resembling an honest discussion, just brainlets screeching "le breedurs btfo".

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:47:18 2018 No.12233633 >>12233620 Yeah, that is what I am gathering from the responses I get. They seem have a pre set conclusion they try to force and use ridiculous and mostly inconsistent arguments trying to justify it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:48:33 2018 No.12233636 >>12233620 >Newest trendy thing among teenage Explain all philosophical works by famous philosophers on antinatalism

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:52:18 2018 No.12233652 >>12233636 Not him, but good fucking Lord are you bad with basic reading comprehension and logic.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:55:04 2018 No.12233661 >>12233636 You mean that one pop-phil book by Benatar and a dozen literally who utilitarians?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 17:00:41 2018 No.12233677 >>12233661 yeah

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 17:05:31 2018 No.12233685 >>12233661 >released by oxford university press >half of the text are replies to articles released on bioethics journals read by no one outside academia >pop-phil come on

>>	ausweissstelle !!mTwW47wpxT/ Sat Dec 15 17:11:20 2018 No.12233703 >>12233611 could you please elaborate

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 19:33:01 2018 No.12234185
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I'm so sick of these dumb fucking threads
>I hate being alive
>lmao kys then
>being born is suffering waaaaa
None of you faggots are going to reproduce anyway so you don't have to worry about any of this

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 19:35:14 2018 No.12234195 >>12234185 based

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 19:53:11 2018 No.12234260 >>12234185 nothing human makes it our of near future gotta go fast and antinatalism will win anyway

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 19:56:20 2018 No.12234279 >>12234185 i've literally had to tell women 'NO you can't have my seed and grow a baby, watch true detective' it's not easy

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 19:56:35 2018 No.12234282
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>>12234260
>hurr da durr being born has negative value
How about you shut the fuck up you fucking mouth breeder nigger shithead
Being born is completely neutral, babies are mindless bags of flesh with no experiences.
antinatalism places humans as some special fucking creatures where feelings actually fucking matter
You're a hairless chimp, born with no morality or meaning
Existance is neither positive or negative, it simply is
Go and fuck something other than your damn fucking hand and you might figure that out
fuck these virign niggers

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 19:57:13 2018 No.12234287 These threads will end when lifecucks make just one argument without committing ad hominem or bragging about how they have sex.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 19:58:50 2018 No.12234295

>>12234282
I'm not even antinatalist but it will still dominate the future you retard cause when human start becomming post humans they won't need biological reproduction you fucking retard
I hope we will make irl Roko basilisk to torture retards like you for eternity

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 19:59:28 2018 No.12234298 File: 70 KB, 640x596, 1538345769157.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12234287 These threads will end when incel virgin NEET niggers finally kill themselves and remove their shit nigger genes from the world so CHAD and keep procreating

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 20:00:17 2018 No.12234303 >>12234298 tfw when someone thinks biological organism will last another century

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 20:00:21 2018 No.12234304 >>12234298 You will only make more of us with your rampant avatarfagging

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 20:02:26 2018 No.12234314 >>12234304 transhumanist and antinatalist alliance when

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 20:04:33 2018 No.12234324

The future belongs to those that show up. Anti-natalists shouldn't be concerned about anything. If we're doomed anyway, why hasten the process? You assume life is negative because it seems pointless and full of suffering. Oh no, you're going to die one day. Grow some balls and face reality. If you don't want to breed, just don't. You've no right to tell me not to. If you try to push, I'll push back. You can keep on kvetching about your suffering and how you're an enlightened doomer. I quite enjoy life, so I will create more. Have a nice day.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 20:07:35 2018 No.12234336 we should just probably make virus that will make our reace infertile cause most of antinatalist are afraid of radical solutions

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 20:10:05 2018 No.12234350 but still only good future is when humans will be replaced by AI

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 21:39:19 2018 No.12234705

>>12232949
>they can't be granted to them either
Your point? It's not like it matters if they never exist, they won't feel the lack of happiness.

The post you're replying to was referring to the disabled as the ones that cannot pursue happiness, and did not mention antinatalists or their lifestyles, beyond the premise of the word, at all. Don't be so selective about your quotes, read everything and not just what you want to see to support your argument. Here's your mistake, you misinterperet what you are reading and you create false standpoints for the other side in order to claim them to be idiots and ignorant of the world.

>at the risk of suffering?
Yeah, I'd imagine most people want to be happy in their lives. I'm already here, I'll make the best of it. As should anyone that respects themselves. But the fact is that I'm alive purely because my dad came in my mom. That doesn't place any significance in my existence, there's no special reason, and beyond that there is no justification for being alive. I'll eventually die, yes, and nothing I have done will matter. If I became the fucking emperor of the Earth and reigned for one hundred years it wouldn't matter. You and I both wish I would die tomorrow, then we could both stop worrying about it. The fact is, there is no value in being born as there is no preexisting deprivation from "muh joys of life." Even if only 1% of all people kill themselves, that's still a 1/100 risk of your child being forced through mental struggle, pain, and strife for no reason beyond you and mom wanted to fuck raw, or propogate a useless line of genes (that goes for all of humanity indiscriminantly), or whatever selfish reason you have. While I have no power to stop you, there's always the definite that your semen will suffer the consequences of existence: The inevitability of death, the uselessness of life, the pain of loss and heartbreak, and tack on any other possible accident that could befall itself or those it loves.

Antinatalists are anti-suffering, yes. That is ecompassed in the fact that they do not have children. There are so many things that can cause pain to an individual, emotionally or physically, on a daily basis. Trying to avoid them all, and then for everyone else, is asking to go insane. Antinatalists get rid of all the striving to be a perfect person by merely not having children and preventing that from happening in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 21:50:32 2018 No.12234755 >>12231269 Platonism is the only philosophy that mattrts

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 21:51:01 2018 No.12234756

>>12234324
You're exactly right, anon. No one should have to worry about anything after them because once we die, we are removed from any guilt or blame within our own minds through nonexistence. As an antinatalist, it's an empathetic standpoint. Since that life has no purpose or gratification in having existed, and has the possibility of not being like you and enjoying life, there is no purpose in having that child beyond selfishness. I agree you have that choice, and I as well as others have no right to impede on it. But I hope you consider the fact that life might not be so jolly for your offspring, or that unfortunate circumstances may befall that person and make their own experience negative. Such is the case with myself, and because I wish I had never been born, I wish that other people might consider the possibility that it could be the same for their child.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 22:03:30 2018 No.12234794

>>12234756

You were never properly raised. Every depressed individual has had shitty parents. Maybe they were nice, but they certainly didn't raise you properly. If they had, you would have found a reason to replicate yourself and produce children instead of kvetching about being born. Tough luck, boyo. Everyone gets pulled into this life. Again, not my problem. Go cry somewhere else.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 22:09:13 2018 No.12234814 >>12229489 Great post desu

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 22:09:25 2018 No.12234817 >And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 22:12:29 2018 No.12234831

>>12234817

>And God cursed them, and God said unto them, Be gay, don't multiply, don't replenish the earth, and do give into it, and have no dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 22:17:24 2018 No.12234844

I hate the antinatalist belief that the only valuable life is a life a pure, constant pleasure with absolutely no conflict. It's a fucking pathetic, cowardly worldview and they've come up with the excuse that their philosophy is purely out of empathy instead of a justification for their miserable lives. The greatest pleasure confess from overcoming the greatest suffering, suffering is not something that should be avoided at all costs because there's a chance that you could feel bad.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 22:18:00 2018 No.12234849

>>12234756
Dumb. If your life didn't have purpose you wouldn't do anything but sit and wait to die. It doesn't even have to be a good purpose, plenty of people have a bad one.
Right and wrong may be a spectrum but so are colors, doesn't mean it doesn't exist just because you can't give the perfect answer to a question.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 22:21:46 2018 No.12234872 >>12229479 >Isn't the logical conclusion of the empirical materialist worldview anti-natalism? It isn't

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 22:30:59 2018 No.12234907 >>12234185 This kills the axiomtard

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 23:02:08 2018 No.12235016 >>12233636 all 3 of them? >Shoppi >Zappe >Ben Atah R. wow this antinatalism thing is surely flying off....

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 23:03:07 2018 No.12235021 >>12234844 this is not the antinatalist belief

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 23:20:08 2018 No.12235077 >>12229479 That’s just what the Nation of Islam wants you to think anon Clearly the answer is in the Bible, to be fruitful and multiply like fruitflys is what I say

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 00:21:15 2018 No.12235314

I used to be an anti-atalist, but then came to realize it was based on a projection of my terrible experience as a living being onto others. There are obviously many situations where not existing at all would probably be better for you, but hearing some peoples genuine appreciation for life feels as though it is unjustifiable to make antinatilism a universal claim

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 00:39:17 2018 No.12235376 >>12229479 anti natalists are scum

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 01:52:53 2018 No.12235636
File: 73 KB, 640x470, ppp888.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>No one has ever put forth a praiseworthy incentive for reproduction. None are needed. People do what they do, including the deed of procreation, because of overpowering pressures - fears, infatuations, and so on - that come from within them and from outside them. All social orders command their members to imbibe in pipe dreams of posterity, the mirage of immortality, to keep them ahead of the extinction that would ensue in a few generations if the species did not replenish itself. This is the implicit, and most pestiferous, rationale for propagation: to become fully integrated into a society, one must offer it fresh blood. Naturally, the average set of parents does not conceive of their conception as a sacrificial act. These are civilized human beings we are talking about, and thus they are quite able to fill their heads with a panoply of less barbaric rationales for reproduction, among them being the consolidation of a spousal relationship; the expectation of new and enjoyable experiences in the parental role; the hope that one will pass the test as a mother or father; the pleasing of one’s own parents, not to forget their parents and possibly a great-grandparent still loitering about; the serenity of taking one’s place in the seemingly deathless lineage of a familial enterprise; the creation of individuals who will care for their paternal and maternal selves in their dotage; the quelling of a sense of guilt or selfishness for not having done their duty as human beings; and the squelching of that faint pathos that is associated with the childless. Such are some of the overpowering pressures upon those who would fertilize the future. These pressures build up in people throughout their lifetimes and must be released, just as everyone must evacuate their bowels or fall victim to a fecal impaction. And who, if they could help it, would suffer a building, painful fecal impaction? So we make bowel movements to relieve this pressure. Quite a few people make gardens because they cannot stand the pressure of not making a garden. Others commit murder because they cannot stand the pressure building up to kill someone, either a person known to them or a total stranger. Everything is like that. Our whole lives consist of metaphorical as well as actual bowel movements, one after the other. Releasing these pressures can have greater or lesser consequences in the scheme of our lives. But they are all pressures, all bowel movements of some kind. At a certain age, children are praised for making a bowel movement in the approved manner. Later on, the praise of others dies down for this achievement and our bowel movements become our own business, although we may continue to praise ourselves for them. But overpowering pressures go on governing our lives, and the release of these essentially bowel-movement pressures may once again come up for praise, congratulations, and huzzahs of all kinds.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 04:47:34 2018 No.12236063
File: 344 KB, 860x1032, ykk02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12229479
No, it's the result of people not being able to deal with the death of god. Actually, of cultures not being able to deal with that, and people being just the product of those cultures. It will take generations to overcome this.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 05:37:52 2018 No.12236164

>>12229485
>need to breed
Breeding is not a need, you can very well live without breeding and your life and health doesnt go down because you dont have kids.
Breeding is also not always the best option for the survival of species, overbreeding will lead to overpopulation and can lead to extinction if care about that stuff. Right at this moment we humans are also facing an overpopulation crisis.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 05:44:36 2018 No.12236178 >>12236164 yeah Probably most people are motivated to reproduction cause they eperience few seconds of pleasure and are somehow ok with lfie filled with suffering but post humanism will be always best option

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 05:49:06 2018 No.12236187

>>12236164
We're not facing an overpopulation crisis this has been confirmed time and time again. You just saw alot of pajeets in one area on the news and thought 'wowzers that's alot of people'
And although you won't decline physically from abstaining in the rat-race, you'll surely suffer for it in mental dialogue. Whether you rationalize it or not, all must serve the cycle

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 05:51:21 2018 No.12236193
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>>12231525
Dont try to attack the "personality" of people who support anti-natalism, i also want to have kids if the chance ever comes, but i have to agree that there are very little counter arguments agaisnt anti-natalism and almost none if you even mix it up with nihilism.
There are adults that prefer to live lifes of utter misery but think everything is worth it if they have kids because of memes like "passing down muh genes bruh" and "leaving muh family name n saving le human race" despite not understanding that once they are dead, none of it will matter and all if anything your genes and family name will be gone in a matter of 3 or more generations.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 05:52:05 2018 No.12236196 >>12236187 most civilized countries don't face overpopulation but african and indian coutries do they're the ones who are problem here if we are talking about overpopulation Also I refuse to serve some retarde biological cycle

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 05:54:16 2018 No.12236206 >>12236193 that are most retarded people who wants kids just to pass their retarded legacy cause they think it will last forever however when heat death of the universe comes there will be no salation execept post humanism

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 05:58:47 2018 No.12236219

>>12232134
>because you fundamentally hate everything that is good
Having kids isnt everything in the world, and neither is always good. Bringing kids into the world when you are dirt poor and miserable just to watch them grown unhealthy, and grow to become drug addicts or criminals is not that ethical. Even more so when you are sperging out and talking about shooting up people that dont follow your ideals.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:03:17 2018 No.12236228

>>12236219
>Even more so when you are sperging out and talking about shooting up people that dont follow your ideals.
Hey, I don't want you dead because you disagree with me. I have no issues with almost anyone who believes in something different from me.

Look, this is just a win win situation, since you believe that life is inherently a negative experience we are just doing you a favor. I promise, you will be executed in a suffering neutral manner.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:06:45 2018 No.12236235

>>12236206
Lol, literally go talk to any retard 30-40 year old citizen about this and they will get mad at you, even most faggots in /r9k/ think like this.
They try to tell you that your life doesnt have any "meaning" if you dont have kids, no matter how much you learn, experience and do, if you dont pass down your genes they tell you that "m8 you failed as a creature brah" as if any of it holds any meaning.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:08:49 2018 No.12236241

>>12234705
>Antinatalists are anti-suffering, yes.
Then go ahead and minimize the suffering in the world, I already told you what you need to do to accomplish that, stop interacting with people, that has a risk of increasing suffering.

>Trying to avoid them all, and then for everyone else, is asking to go insane
Either you believe in the principle of minimizing suffering or you don't. WHAT IS IT?
If you DO believe in minimizing suffering no matter the risk stop interacting with people, if you DON'T your argument against procreation doesn't work.

You are basically very boring utilitarians, with one ridiculous conclusion you want to prove.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:09:44 2018 No.12236242 File: 175 KB, 900x695, 9888.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12236228 >Dear diary. Today, I was edgy on 4channel's literature board. Everyone thought I was cool.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:11:17 2018 No.12236247 >>12236242 I am seriously not trying to be edgy, can you make an actual argument against my proposal?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:13:42 2018 No.12236253 >>12230153 found the edgelord

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:13:47 2018 No.12236254 >>12234287 I did, multiple times, but people ignore that obviously. You are hypocrites and unwilling to face the consequences of your own premises.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:16:59 2018 No.12236259 >>12236235 I just ignore these retards I don't want to reproduce and this shit but still want to live forever

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:20:37 2018 No.12236265 >>12236241 >still thinks antinatalists talk about physical suffering This is getting embarrassing, just stop.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:22:58 2018 No.12236272 >>12236265 All I am doing is taking you people at your own words. Either list your principles, or accept the ones I infer from YOUR words.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:23:07 2018 No.12236273 >>12231337 >>12230796 >I hate life, that's because you're homeless mate, if you're millionaire you won't hate it >I feel pleasure from something so that something is a good thing blupilledtards I swear

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:23:11 2018 No.12236274
File: 176 KB, 537x536, 1540759161519.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12236228
Just because i disagree with you, it doesnt mean i follow their ideals.
I also want to have kids if i the chance comes, and i find myself in a suitable position to do it without shooting myself in the foot. But i do agree that there is also very little counter arguments to anti-natalism.
Its not that i believe that life is inherently a negative experience, but its that no one can have the right to life when they dont even exist in the first place. Caring about dumb meaningless shit like passing down genes and not letting humans go extinct are pure spooks that society and relegion force you just so the cycle can begin again as if it has any porpuse.
When you are dead and cease to exist, none of the shit you did thinking about "muh genes" will matter, in fact, your genes, family name and basic traits will be long gone in a matter of a handful of generations.
Its not that i want to raise kids to leave a legacy, but because i like the idea of experiencing raising kids and watch them grow, learn and it bring me pleasure in the present time im alive.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:27:54 2018 No.12236286 >>12231600 just adopt white kid, retard

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:28:16 2018 No.12236288 File: 37 KB, 512x512, 66hkhoosossdccccccc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12236272 Go read Zappfe, Cioran, or Ligotti. It's not my job to enlighten your uneducated and proud ass.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:28:33 2018 No.12236290

>>12236274
>But i do agree that there is also very little counter arguments to anti-natalism.
I believe the exact opposite. Anti-natalism is a position which can only be held by intellectual frauds or hypocrites.

>Its not that i believe that life is inherently a negative experience
So you aren't an anti-natalist and you reject the only somewhat logical argument anti-natalists have made in this entire thread, them taking the position of utilitarianism and arguing that life is inherently negative. That is at least a logically consistent position.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:29:49 2018 No.12236292 >>12236274 >It's not like I'd want to raise children >But it like to NANI?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:30:00 2018 No.12236293 >>12236288 Either you make arguments or you don't. You intellectually bankrupt retard. Let me do the same: >Zappfe, Cioran, or Ligotti All debunked, read the western Canon.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:30:44 2018 No.12236294 >>12236274 you're probably only natalist that have little point but still you're selfish cause you want to experience thing that you desire even if it means that your kids will suffer a lot in life

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:31:55 2018 No.12236302 >>12236292 exactly I don't understand him either

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:32:02 2018 No.12236305 >>12236293 >goes into X thread where people talk about X >HAHA I DONT HAVE TO LEARN ABOUT X FIRST YOU FAGGOTS IM 2SMART kys any time my man

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:34:08 2018 No.12236308 >>12236305 Either make an argument against me or don't, if you don't accept I am right or that you are unwilling to face my arguments. Surely, if I know nothing you can debunk what I said with no issue.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:35:08 2018 No.12236312 >>12231282 >most normies I meet enjoy their lives you only know the surface, you don't share the same point of view just because you saw someone laugh whenever you meet that person doesn't mean that person happy with his life

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:39:36 2018 No.12236322

>>12236294
You cant predict that.
So what if im a selfish? Isnt most of life based around selfishness?
>>12236292
>Taking shit out of contest
I said i dont want to have kids just for the sake of building a legacy like many people believe retard. I want to have kids because of my own pleasure.
>>12236290
Why do you say the only logical position is about life being negative? Like i said before, no one has the right to live when they dont even exist, if you dont care about the experiences of raising childreen then is there any other argument you can come up that forces you to have kids?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:44:51 2018 No.12236336

>>12236322
There's a big chance they will be killed in horrible way in some accident so probability is on my side

Also depends what your kids choose to do I mean we are close to singularity so some strong AI could end of suffering so maybe there won't be suffering anymore

But still it's problematic to procreate even if there isn't suffering cause you still forcing someone into existence without their consent

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:45:45 2018 No.12236338

>>12236308
Peter Zappfe's essay "The Last Messiah" is very short and easily accessible through Google Search. Get back to us when you're done, shouldn't take more than 15 minutes. Until you do, please refrain from posting your inane shit about minimizing suffering. Good luck.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:46:18 2018 No.12236341

>>12236322
>if you dont care about the experiences of raising childreen then is there any other argument you can come up that forces you to have kids?
Well okay, egotism and assumptions about things you don't know can rationally explain why you yourself don't want to have kids, I agree to that argument, not everyone should have kids, especially not against his own wishes.
But that isn't what anti-natalists argue, they argue you that procreation is always bad, not just in the case of a person not wanting to procreate.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:47:55 2018 No.12236347 >>12236338 I don't care about your funhouse. Either make arguments or stop replying.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:51:26 2018 No.12236357 >>12235636 I'm reasonably convinced that Catholicism is Hell itself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 06:54:28 2018 No.12236364 I'll say it again transhumanist and antinatalist alliance when

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:00:39 2018 No.12236380 why are all natalists tend to think that it's all about wealthy and poorness? even if you're wealthy you are still capable of experiencing unpleasant things, therefore existence is still a bad thing

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:01:27 2018 No.12236382

>>12236336
>There's a big chance they will be killed in horrible way in some accident so probability is on my side
That is up to them, not me. When im dead i wont care about those things, because i cant.
>you still forcing someone into existence without their consent
Why should i care about that? Do they hold any rights when they dont exist? I can bring them into the world whenever i want. Can it be considered in some way selfish? Yes, but everyone is selfish to some extent.
>>12236341
>But that isn't what anti-natalists argue
Yeah, but i stated that im no anti-natalist, i simply defended that they have their own right to choose to have or not kids. Their arguments may have sense, but if you fully admit that you are selfish and dont care about the kids in the full extent, then they will also have to stfu.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:03:59 2018 No.12236388 >>12236382 So why do you want them in the first place when you don't care about what will happen to them if you're dead

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:04:05 2018 No.12236389 >>12232236 I'm aware that I'm capable of feeling happy and I'm happy checkmate

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:08:57 2018 No.12236399

>>12236388
To bring me pleasure while im alive and they are alive.
I will protect them, educate them and all that stuff because i like it and brings me joy.
When you are dead you cant care about those things anymore, they are no longer your childreen, you dont exist and so doing things for the sake of family name and genes become useless.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:11:00 2018 No.12236404 >>12236399 I love how you think only of yourself and bringing joy to you and don't care about kids

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:12:36 2018 No.12236409 >>12234298 how can you be so sure that your kids wouldn't become NEET?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:15:11 2018 No.12236417

>>12236404
>Implying everyone doesnt act based on their own interest.
Everyone acts like this, making other people around you happy makes you also happy aswell. Everyone is in their own core selfish.
If my kids arent happy then im not happy, its basic human behaviour.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:17:57 2018 No.12236424 >>12236417 I understand this and that is why I'm transhumanist cause how nature designed us disgusts me

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:21:18 2018 No.12236436 >>12234844 then why don't you make yourself suffer to gain a greater pleasure?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:21:28 2018 No.12236437

>>12229479
I dunno but it makes the most sense to me and how I've decided to live my life and recommend to others. It would be hypocritical of me to decry suffering while possibly contributing to it with procreation. Adoption is preferable, if you're fit for parenthood.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:23:57 2018 No.12236451

>>12236424
>>12236364
Transhumanism is a silly mechanism of escaping from the fear of death, no more real than the dreams of religious salvation. Heavenly gardens, or some new, exciting bend in human evolution, it's all the same. An escape for the deluded.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:27:57 2018 No.12236462

>>12233057
>If that is true, how can you prevent the suffering of a potential life?
You can't perfectly predict the future of your child's life when you procreate. However, you know what this future could possibly entail, untold suffering, either caused by your child or experienced by your child or both. By not procreating you don't prevent the suffering of a extant subject but you do prevent any possibility of these events unfolding and you don't do harm to the one person who procreation would affect the most, your child to be, as they do not exist.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:27:59 2018 No.12236463

>>12234794
>Every depressed individual has had shitty parents
false
if your children gangraped and killed you would feel depressed and it has nothing to do with your parents
>If they had, you would have found a reason to replicate yourself and produce children instead of kvetching about being born
false
your desire to reproduce is simply out of instinct as an organic being
even animals that weren't raised by anything at all would still want to reproduce

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:29:53 2018 No.12236465 >>12235376 and you lifecucks produced them

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:30:24 2018 No.12236466 >>12236451 No it's not Go read some Kurzweil We just can upload our minds to simulation and create sensetation of infinite time so we will never die

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:31:33 2018 No.12236472 >>12235077 nah, Islam encourages you to reproduce you clearly know nothing about Islam

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:31:52 2018 No.12236473 >>12236465 what do you expect from them

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:32:12 2018 No.12236474

>>12229479
I don't see any applied logic in your statement so I am going to guess you mean that it seems like the only rational causal relationship between those two?

What is empirical materialist worldview? Empirical is just experience based mostly meant by senses if we add positivism a bit. Materialist you mean like material that physically we believe exist? Is this the implication of empirical material? Why would natalism be more empirically materialist than antinatalism? You should specify if you are arguing about morality or something else.

I am very confused by your question because it implies I know your inner definitions or that you believe there is only one possible way of understanding those phrases. I can't provide an answer to what you don't properly define and explain.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:33:25 2018 No.12236479 >>12236473 to not breeding at all

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:33:58 2018 No.12236480 >>12236466 Even reading this sounds depressing. In absence of any meaning to life, infinity sounds like condemnation than a gift.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:37:50 2018 No.12236489

>>12236480
I was scared of it too when I imagined I would live longer than universe it terrified me as fuck
But we must think that if we become beings that transcend biology and our curret form we could live for infinite ammount of time without problems and withoit insanity

Also you can always kill yourself
Probably after living milions of year with curret human mind everyone would commit suicide

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:37:51 2018 No.12236490 >>12236302 >>12236292 Wait what? He said he wouldn't want to do it for one reason and would rather do it for another reason

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:38:52 2018 No.12236494 what's the bump limit on /lit/? 310?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:39:37 2018 No.12236495 >>12236490 he's confused

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:40:00 2018 No.12236496 >>12236489 >we must think Just look how desperate you sound >we MUST think that in heaven, everything is awesome and nothing hurts and there's no boredom and you never feel bad!! this is pure autosuggestion. Get out of it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:41:10 2018 No.12236498 >>12236495 Why is that? Everyone has different reasons for procreation or non-procreation.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:42:37 2018 No.12236501

>>12236480
Also reality is so fucked that we could destroy very universe and every existence cause this universe after it dies will create another universe after really crazy periods of time so we must ensure this will never happen again cause physics behave really strangely after really long time
After this universe die there will be another where I will type these same things to you again so we must stop this cycle

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:44:35 2018 No.12236507 >>12236496 maybe I'm lmao I would probably just simulate pleasure for all eternity or play god

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:48:37 2018 No.12236519 >>12235636 What a blessed post. Probably one of the best things I've read this week.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:51:45 2018 No.12236531 >>12236519 Could you tell me what he was trying to say I don't get him at all

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:11:16 2018 No.12236557 >>12236531 I don't get it myself, but he just explains how society works and in the end nothing matters

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:49:53 2018 No.12236647 >>12236557 >>12236531 It makes more sense in context. https://studylib.net/doc/8648777/the-conspiracy-against-the-human-race

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:05:52 2018 No.12236691 >>12236647 Terror management theory the book

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:35:36 2018 No.12236786 This thread is proof how vapid anti-natalism and its adherents are. What a useless non-ideology.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:51:22 2018 No.12236828 >>12236786 >Chiming in at 314 posts so you can get the last word in

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:29:25 2018 No.12236970

>>12236691
funny you say considering that 'Cospiracy' talks about TMT
>As Ernest Becker expostulated in his Pulitzer Prize-winning Denial of Death (1974), a work that later kindled a branch of psychology with the marvelous name of Terror Management Theory, human beings are in thrall to the fear of death, and this fear determines the entire landscape of our lives. To skip around our death anxiety, we have engineered a world to deceive ourselves into believing that we will linger beyond the final breakdown of our bodies. We know this fabricated world because we see it around us every day, an offense to the eye. Shamelessly indiscreet are houses of worship where people go to get a whiff of meaning... and meaning means only one thing - immortality. In heaven or hell or reincarnated life forms, we must go on and on - us without end. Travesties of immortalism are effected day and night in obstetrics wards, factories of our future that turn out a product made in its makers’ image, a miracle by which we enter into a devil’s bargain with God, glorifying Him with the credit and giving us a chance to have our names and genetics projected into a time we will not live to see

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:11:04 2018 No.12237434 >>12236828 >wants his thread die Of course an anti-natalist cuck would say this

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:27:58 2018 No.12237505 >>12237434 It's just past the bump limit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:32:13 2018 No.12237525 >>12236241 Why are you making arguments against statements I've made when those same arguments are refuted literally a sentence later in the post you're responding to?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:39:15 2018 No.12237547

>>12236341
Antinatalists argue that the risks of having a child that does not want to exist outweighs the probability of having a child that enjoys life. You aren't denying that potentially happy child a life, because it never existed. You ARE denying that unborn child peace if they grow to hate life in being born. Thus, don't have a child.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:45:09 2018 No.12237575 >>12234794 >Go cry somewhere else >thread about antinatalism and the immorality of birth Illiterate confirmed?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:49:10 2018 No.12237585

>>12234849
>you wouldn't do anything but sit and wait to die
Incorrect, all animals have a natural instinct to survive and defying that instinct, especially with the pressures of family, government and other outside sources, is pretty much impossible. By the time a human can freely think and come to the conclusion that life has no point, they've already fallen victim to these influences and will not simply sit and wait to die.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:23:40 2018 No.12237758 >>12231600 there will be discomfort at every level of life, anon. you're aiming in the wrong direction.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:28:11 2018 No.12237784 >>12231581 life is worth living and giving because it's so rare. we'll be dead more then we'll be alive. It's finity gives life it's value. if you can't reason this out yourself keep living your virgin philosophy and kys

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:32:30 2018 No.12237801 >>12232152 >thinking suffering in life is due to our level of technological advancement lmao

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:20:34 2018 No.12238007 >>12232228 >suffering isn't both an accute and constant problem and in fact the only problem please gib access to your bnw lifestyle

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/lit/ - Literature