The is only egoism

[Anonymous No.12341000]

It's impossible to be truly altruistic, you are always acting in self interest whether you know it or not

[Anonymous No.12341005]

>>12341000
Ah, to be 15 again.

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.12341007]

>implying that the natural state of man, being self interested, is objectively not desirable

[Anonymous No.12341009]

>>12341000
Based and spoo>>12341000
kpilled

[Anonymous No.12341014]

>>12341000
What really gets to me, as a Christian, is that all of the worship and prayer is out of self-interest. Heaven appeals to the biological self because there we are immortal and experience no pain. The idea that I should pray to improve the chances that I get into Heaven always bothers me. I don’t think anyone would care about dedicating so much of their life to God if there weren’t a reward. It’s sort of a win-win, though, I guess

[Anonymous No.12341016]

Nonsense. How do you explain selflessness then, as a human emotion, followed later by action?

"You know it or not" is not a good enough answer, lmao

[Anonymous No.12341037]

>>12341016
>How do you explain selflessness then, as a human emotion, followed later by action?
Survival of the species. Possibility for future reward. Honor.

[Anonymous No.12341038]

>>12341014
You don't pray to get more of a chance at entering heaven. You pray to ask your heavenly father for guidance and support.

I guess when it comes to what I want as a Christian, I won't lie that my motivations are fueled by the desire to see heaven when I die. However, the bible tells us very clearly that we are to strive for spiritual rewards, but these are rewards for morally good actions in the name of our Lord, so we should always be willing to act in the name of Christ without guilt.

My prayers heading your way, my man :)

[Anonymous No.12341050]

>>12341037

So if I give my friend a present with all of my hard earned cash out of selflessness, is that for the survival of the species?

[Anonymous No.12341067]

>>12341050
Giving your friend that gift will improve your friendship, and you might expect that he will give you a gift in he future, or that he will help you in bad times. You want your friend to survive and thrive because it might help you, too. I don’t know how you don’t see this. Do you not agree that you feel satisfied by doing something like that? If you weren’t satisfied, then why do it?

[Anonymous No.12341079]

>>12341005
/thread
if you are posting in this thread and not saging you are a dum dum

[Anonymous No.12341101]

>>12341067
I legitimately don't expect my friend to give me a gift in the future, as that is the whole point of a gift. And I gave the gift to show my love for him, not to improve our friendship. That would mean bribery, which is something I am obviously not doing. And honestly, I would help him out in bad times even if he never helped me out. Finally, I agree that I feel satisfied from giving that gift, but it is powered by the emotion of love and friendship. To say that it is powered by a secret motivation of self interest is heavily unfair, and only applies if we look at the human being as simply clocks and numbers, when we are actually very emotionally driven creatures. Satisfaction implies a feeling of accomplishing a task. I don't feel satisfaction from giving the gift: I feel happiness.

[Anonymous No.12341108]

>>12341016
They do it because it makes them feel good, if they felt like shit they would stop doing it

[Anonymous No.12341115]

>>12341007
>'nature' objectively exists

[Anonymous No.12341119]

>>12341101
>I feel happiness.
That's the reason to why you do it, to obtain that feeling, to feel good, it all boils down to your self-interest .

[Anonymous No.12341132]

>>12341101
If it makes you happy, then you admit your act is selfish. But you still reject the real reasons why it makes you happy. You wouldn’t buy a gift for a rock unless you were insane. Friendship is very beneficial for humans.

[Anonymous No.12341138]

>>12341119
If we run with happiness being out of self interest, you are then implying that the pursuit of happiness is a bad thing, since all humans are biologically wired to pursue it. if that's the case, what then?

[Anonymous No.12341143]

>>12341132
being happy can just be a simple byproduct of the action not the point of the action in the first place, if he is not doing it for the point of being happy its harder to argue it is for selfish reasons, even harder if in some circumstance someone would refuse a gift in return even if it makes him feel bad

[Anonymous No.12341149]

>>12341138
No, you’re the one with the predisposition that selfishness = bad. Everything is out of self-interest, it just so happens that some people’s self-interest also benefits others because we are all wired differently.

[Anonymous No.12341158]

>>12341138
I never said selfishness is bad, I don't believe in good and evil, only in the will of the individual

[Anonymous No.12341163]

>>12341158
Your belief in everything being out of self interest forces you to view people as only wanting things out of selfish gain, whether you agree with that or not. That in itself breeds a negative connotation. Fix your ideology kiddo :)

[Anonymous No.12341164]

>>12341143
If we something because it makes us feel good, it means that thing makes us feel good for a reason. Happiness is a sign of some benefit, it’s our motivation to act out of self-interest. Just because we can’t easily perceive all the biological reasons for our actions doesn’t mean they aren’t there. We don’t feel happy for no reason.

[Anonymous No.12341170]

>>12341163
>That in itself breeds a negative connotation
For you, not him. You’re forcing your belief on him.

[Anonymous No.12341181]

>>12341163
People only want things for selfish gain but I don't think that's bad

[Anonymous No.12341183]

>>12341170
He is forcing that belief on himself because of his ideology. Subconsciously he has that view, even if he disregards it. ideology brings a perspective to the individual, but that perspective can be in the background. Forgive me for mislabelling you, but you cannot deny that someone else, if not you in all fairness, would have their perception of humanity warped by that belief.

[Anonymous No.12341192]

>>12341164
>If we something because it makes us feel good

i'm saying 'feeling good' can just be the byproduct not the reason for doing something. the primary reason for helping someone out can be, as a stretch, to help someone out, regardless of the consequence 'being happy'

>it’s our motivation to act out of self-interest.
this still assumes helping someone is out of self-interest but the stumbling block is that it is possible to act without thinking about the consequences. i can give a gift to someone and feel terrible about it

[Anonymous No.12341200]

>>12341000
'true altruism' is just putting someone else's wellbeing before your own in terms of priority, not outright denying yourself any sort of benefit

[Anonymous No.12341203]

>>12341163
You are the only one here who has a negative connotation here.
Selfishness isn't something bad or condemnable.

[Anonymous No.12341206]

>>12341203
stirner never killed anybody. he's a larping fag.

[Anonymous No.12341215]

>>12341192
>the primary reason for helping someone out can be, as a stretch, to help someone out
But you can’t reasonably argue that anyone does this for absolutely no self-benefit. It’s impossible for someone to do something that doesn’t benefit him.
>that it is possible to act without thinking about the consequences
Further proof that these actions are biologically based.

[Anonymous No.12341230]

>>12341203
>I can kill them,not torture them
What he meant by this ?

[Anonymous No.12341244]

>>12341014
Eternal life is a consequence of being moral,not the reason why

[Anonymous No.12341248]

>>12341244
Making money is a consequence of working hard, not the reason why

[Anonymous No.12341271]

>>12341014
But heaven is a completely spiritual where your soul lives in complete knowledge of the absolute goodness of God. Striving to go to heaven is actually striving to achieve knowledge of the greatest possible good, which is a great virtue

[Anonymous No.12341294]

>>12341000

>people have a reason for doing things

Epic insight do you have a donation page

[Anonymous No.12341303]

>>12341000
Egoism is a fucking meme philosophy

[Anonymous No.12341304]

>>12341294
Le epic strawman

[Anonymous No.12341307]

>>12341000
fucking duh. are you 17?

we're social animals. altruism makes 99% of people feel good. what a shocker.

this is peak psuedo-egoism. youre still under the assumption that, because an action is taken in self-interest, it is automatically bad.

you could not be more incorrect.

[Anonymous No.12341325]

>>12341215
so why would someone martyr themselves?

[Anonymous No.12341333]

>>12341307
>youre still under the assumption that, because an action is taken in self-interest, it is automatically bad.
Where is that said in the OP? He just said that every action is taken in self-interest, without mentioning wether it's ethically good or not

[Anonymous No.12341341]

>>12341307
I'm not OP, but I think your reading comprehension skills are lacking. OP never suggested that because altruism doesn't exist, acting for the benefit of yourself through helping other people was a bad one; all he did was acknowledge it.

[Anonymous No.12341343]

>>12341333
its clearly implied in the "its impossible to be truly altruistic." i would argue that altruism is, by definition, inherently self-serving simply because it makes people feel good. it serves a greater purpose that is at least marginally self-serving. as such, its entirely possible to be "truly" altruistic.

[Anonymous No.12341365]

>>12341343
I said truly altruistic in the sense that you can not act without self-interest

[Anonymous No.12341369]

>>12341365
then, again, this is baby's first philosophy hour.

of course not. duh. next.

[Anonymous No.12341373]

>>12341369
You're bullying me, stop

[Anonymous No.12341534]

>>12341000
Bump

[Anonymous No.12341538]

>>12341000
It's impossible to be truly egoist, You're working to spread your genes and empower your Tribe every day without even realizing.

[Anonymous No.12341541]

>>12341538
I do it because it benefits me in some way

[Anonymous No.12341551]

>>12341005
step aside, spent old man. children play here.

[Anonymous No.12342239]

>>12341000
Nice trips

[Anonymous No.12342262]

>>12341192
You're confusing the proximate and ultimate causes for the action.
As an example, if I see tits I get aroused.
Ultimate cause: the biological motivation to reproduce with the woman in order to spread my genes. The boobs are arousing because they signify my future children getting nutrition, and therefore having a good chance of survival.
Proximate cause: "Damn that's hot, she's got some nice tits"

In the same way, I dont need to consciously think "if I give my friend a gift, it will be likely that he will repay the favour. In this way, I can expect to gain from him with mutually beneficial exchanges". No, you just think "I like my friend so i'm going to buy him this gift". You don't need to understand the ultimate cause or even ever be aware or conscious of it. Still, it is the reason that human beings have this behaviour in the first place.