/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13621675]

Why did this nigga want to abolish the family?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.13621694]

What passage troubles you, anon?

I haven’t read it. But a personal observation is that the “nuclear family” is a corrosive diversionary policy meant to obscure the older communal, close knit small town, feeling of comradely relations. Fine in the past feudal model, but not useful to the modern capitalists

[Anonymous No.13621704]

cause he hated his dad

[Anonymous No.13621716]

He didn't. He even says as much in the Manifesto.

[Anonymous No.13621718]

>>13621694
You haven’t read what?

The Communist Manifesto is a very short, concise view of the philosophy of Marx that was proliferated in the early 20th century.

You should read it, babe. :3

[Anonymous No.13621950]

>>13621675
Cuz he jooo

[Anonymous No.13621965]

>>13621675
raped by his rabbi father

[Anonymous No.13622059]

he didn't, in fact he blamed capitalism for breaking up patriarchal relations (he was right)

[Anonymous No.13622066]

>>13621675

One of this few good ideas, if not the only one.

[Anonymous No.13622078]

I'm not sure about Marx himself but Engels argues not against the family per se but against this corrupted notion of the 'gens' in competition with other branches of itself

[Anonymous No.13622086]

Commies don't want to completely destroy the family, but they want to extend the family beyond the arbitrary lines of the nuclear meme. It's not removing love from the family but extending love to all comrades

[Anonymous No.13622098]

>>13622086
only God's love is infinite

[Anonymous No.13622107]

>>13621675
The usual reason: he wanted to fuck preteen girls and other men's wives.

>>13621716
>>13621718
>You want to abolish the family
>"The family" is a bourgeois concept, and besides the bourgeoisie has already abolished the family anyway.
That's a huge dodge. Then of course we have the actual example of the early USSR's family laws, which turned out to be both a) tantamount to abolishing the family and b) completely unworkable.

[Anonymous No.13622116]

>>13622086
>we don't want to *destroy* your savings, comrade, we only want to extend its value to all of our fellow proletarians. We'll take care of the details.

[Anonymous No.13622121]

>>13622116
nice meme, love and decency are not finite

[Anonymous No.13622141]

>>13621675
It wasn't so much about "wanting" to break up the family but that the nuclear family was empirically already broken up amongst factory workers in the 1840s. He was talking about hypocrisy between values being espoused and reality when he wrote the Manifesto but I don't think he had any serious thought out ideas on how family relations would develop at that stage. Before he died in the 1880s he was going over contemporary new ethnological works and tasked Engels to finish this and Engels later published on this but he's just uncritically putting forth Morgans ideas which Marx was a little more critical of in his unpublished manuscripts

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/index.htm

[Anonymous No.13622145]

>>13622107
>"The family" is a bourgeois concept
he never said that you retard

[lalo No.13622160]

Is someone really trying to make Money from me

[Anonymous No.13622193]

>>13622141
>nuclear family
Why do conservatards keep going on about the "nuclear family" so much when it's really not even that old.
That's the extended family that brought us to the modern world.
Regardless, it's all spooks.

[Anonymous No.13622203]

>>13622145
The nuclear family is literally the bourgeois ideal. Right wing politicians aren't trying desperately to promote it just out of neuroticism. The entire notion presupposes the hegemony of the bourgeoisie. Notice the empirical growth of infantile genital sexuality amongst adults during the entire social devolution unfolding rooted in the historical contraction of capitalism beginning in 1971 and accelerating after the collapse of lehman brothers in 2008. Marx never claimed anywhere polymorphic perversion would become the sexual reality prefiguring socialism but from an empirical perspective something's going on.

[Anonymous No.13622241]

>>13622203
does socialism even mean anything except capitalism but without the icky parts?

[Anonymous No.13622260]

>>13622241
socialism is worker owned means of production and communism is a fully realized utopia without hierarchies and no monetary system

[Anonymous No.13622296]

>>13622241
who knows... whatever comes after profit driven growth breaks down which is becoming more obvious since you get a bigger return inflating assets than from investment
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-08/companies-use-borrowed-billions-to-buy-back-stock-not-to-invest

>>13622260
socialized production doesn't require worker "ownership"... there's no reason a statist direction [either of a fluffy feel good or dictatorial hell scape flavour] isn't an option on the table

[Anonymous No.13622300]

>>13622241
>Lower stage of communism, or if you want, socialism: society disposes already generally of products, which are allocated to members of society by quotas. This function doesn’t require commodity exchange or money anymore – one cannot let Stalin’s statement pass, according to which the simple exchange without money, but still based on the law of value, should bring us closer to communism: rather it is about a kind of regression to bartering. The allocation of products on the contrary follows from the center, without return of an equivalent. Example: If a malaria epidemic breaks out, in the affected region quinine is distributed for free, but solely one tubule per person.

>In this phase, not only compulsory work is necessary, but also the recording of the performed labour time and its certificate – the famous “labour voucher,” so much discussed in the last century. The peculiarity of this certificate is, that it cannot be kept in reserve, so that any try to accumulate it leads to the loss of the performed labour quantum without compensation. The law of value is buried.

>Engels: “Hence, on the assumptions we made above, society will not assign values to products.”

>Higher stage of communism, which can be unhesitatingly can be called integral socialism: the productivity of labour is in such a way, that, apart from pathological cases, neither coercion nor rationing are necessary, to exclude the squandering of products and human energy. Free consumption for all. Example: The pharmacies are distributing quinine free and without constraints. And if one would take ten tubules to poison himself? He would obviously be just as stupid as the people, which confuse a rotten bourgeois society with socialism.

[Anonymous No.13622307]

>>13622086
so just like plato then

[Anonymous No.13622345]

Try reading a book before you ask stupid questions.

[Anonymous No.13622385]

>>13622345
Leftist and rightist paradigms are beyond stupid these days. Politics is a sham anyway. It is not a grave mistake to have some conservative views, you have seen me have them on here and Butterfly has some also and we want to do sexual things together.

I have shared conservative views with women in real life. I am like a 7/10 at best. It is NOT radical to be against homosexuality, despite what this hellscape will have you believe. I am a cultured man.

Anyhow, Plato also advocated against the nuclear family unit, as the post above you comments, and he was by no means a leftist. :3

Just throwing that out there

[Anonymous No.13622601]

>>13622260
>socialism is worker owned means of production
ownership is meaningless under socialism, and workers are a by marxist definition is a structural class under capitalism which doesn't exist under socialism, so your definition is doubly meaningless

i'll concede Marx did a good job defining the means of production, but the rest of your definition is empty propaganda

[Anonymous No.13622608]

>>13622296
marxism was never against production acceleration, that's dirty hippies

[Anonymous No.13622621]

>>13622300
i like that you provided an answer

[Anonymous No.13622634]

>>13621675
Did he? I thought he just thought the proletariat was going to separate from family life

[Anonymous No.13622663]

>>13621675
He had a family and did pretty well with them. His daughters had great esteem for him.

[Anonymous No.13622681]

I dont think anything is going to make the family unit relavent again desu

[Anonymous No.13622725]

>>13622193
People like to pretend that the nuclear family is just a recent concept, but it really isnt. Pagan romans, for example, already had it enshrined into their religion. The difference was that apart from the nuclear family, people also had obligation to their extended family, which has withered away in the west.

[Anonymous No.13622740]

>>13621675
In any case, OP is like many desperate pro-Capitalist conservatives. Capitalism and wage labor is destroying the family currently, and they blame it on Marx.

It is wage labor which is destroying the family you retards.
When the women works, in addition with the man, because she has no choice, she doesn't have time to take care of her children, and the relationship with her man become toxic. No wage labor, better family.
During feudalism, the family was super strong. It was mostly because the whole family was working the field together. No wage labor where the women goes to work early morning, and came back late evening.

[Anonymous No.13622756]

>>13621675
Where does he say that?
I haven't even read marx and i know he says something like that the family shouldn't be the only focus, i don't see how anyone but someone into incest could think otherwise.

[Anonymous No.13622819]

>>13622740
>In any case, OP is like many desperate pro-Capitalist conservatives. Capitalism and wage labor is destroying the family currently, and they blame it on Marx.
Not OP, but that's really not the case. The issue is that both capitalism and Marxism are hostile to the concept of a family, and most strains of Marxism were very hostile to it, whether it was the Bolshevik experiments with 'free love' that turned out to be fucking disasters (surprise surprise, humans need a family structure) or the post-WW2 French lefties and feminists who discredited it as 'fascist', like Deleuze, Guattari, Sartre and all the feminist filth that slithered out of that same hole. It wasnt until the 80's/90's when the Left mostly abandoned this (as well as their explicit hostility towards religion, not coincidentally) and you started to get actual Marxists like Lasch who openly defended the family.

[Anonymous No.13622855]

marx thinks the current family model is devoid of emotions and is just there as part of the capitalist production system to maximize profits.
he wants it to be replaced with a family model that is based on human element and intimacy where a man loves his wife instead of marrying (buy) her only so she produces his children which he views as his property.
also read this https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/index.htm

[Anonymous No.13622856]

>>13622819
Alright, so who is responsible for the family destruction?
What is the mode of production of 99% of the world, what defines our daily lifes, is it Marxism, or Capitalism?
Because if it is Marxism, i didn't noticed, and i must be living in an other dimension than you.

[Anonymous No.13622888]

>>13622856
If you want to defend the family why would you run to another ideology that wants to destroy it? There's more ideas out there than liberal capitalism and communism, you know.

[Anonymous No.13622900]

>>13622888
There is only Capitalism in this world. Capitalism and it's different flavors.

I didn't know Revolutionary Catalonia (1936-1937), was trying to destroy the family. Nor the Israeli Kibbutz. Nor the Hutterites. In any case, family is stronger in all those communist examples.

[Anonymous No.13622905]

>>13622856
>Capitalism is to blame for the destruction of the family. Join us if you want to save the family.
>ok so you offer an alternative to the destruction of the family, then
>Nah we also want to destroy it
great logic famsci

[Anonymous No.13622908]

>>13622888
>There's more ideas out there than liberal capitalism and communism

[Anonymous No.13622913]

>>13622900
Revolutionary Catalonia is hardly a commune because it had so many infighting factions before being crushed by the Francoists. But iven their hostility towards other 'traditional' constructs and because a family is inherently heirarchical, they would've inevitably turned on it as well. This is assuming any anarchist commune can survive for so long, which is of course never going to happen.
A Kibbutz is a very small-scale religious commune, you might as well call a monastery a commune as well.

[Anonymous No.13622915]

>>13622900
>There is only Capitalism in this world. Capitalism and it's different flavors.
Please define capitalism

[Anonymous No.13622917]

>>13622915
Everything in this world

[Anonymous No.13622921]

>>13622900
(...) and i didn't know that abolishing money, the State, exchange value, delegation of power, private property of the means of production, mean the destruction of the family. I don't really know how you come to this conclusion. Except perhaps if your conception of communism is LGBT degenerates posting on twitter about sexual freedom and shit like that, defining themselves as Marxist, when they surely haven't read Marx, or maybe in extremely rare case, they have read it, but their main concern is the stupid gender theory, not class struggle.

[Anonymous No.13622922]

>>13622917
Okay so you admit you're a stupid fucking retard who doesn't even know what capitalism is, thanks case closed let's move on

[Anonymous No.13622929]

>>13622917
So capitalism is material existence itself? Wow, we better keep that then, dont wanna lose it

[Anonymous No.13622931]

>>13622915
Capitalism is a mode of production, the way we produce item, based of private property of the means of production, and wage labor.

[Anonymous No.13622965]

>>13622929
>So capitalism is material existence itself?
Yes

[Anonymous No.13622983]

>>13622931
You acknowlege that it's a specific system of producing goods and managing society as a whole so how the fuck can there only be capitalism?

[Anonymous No.13623044]

>>13622983
Because primitive communism, slavery, and feudalism, gave way to Capitalism.
Today, except extremely rare case, like the last primitive tribes (primitive communism), warlords in Afghanist (remnants of feudalism), Hutterites (close to true communism) every country produce in a Capitalistic way.

[Anonymous No.13623164]

>>13623044
I have no idea what "primitive communism" means, sure the tribal arrangement is communal but to equate that with what people are proposing to advance from capitalism with is naive.
In the same way capitalism advanced from feudalism and feudalism advanced from warlord slave societies we are able to advance from capitalism to something else.

Marx never set out a specific system in stone in which capitalism should advance into but he pointed out the problems in capitalism which should be tackled and to ignore those and to deal with capitalism as some abstraction of society in general is a surefire way for us to descend back into something resembling warlord slave societies.

[Anonymous No.13623172]

>>13623044
>Hutterites
funny how 'true' communism always seems to work only on small-level, homogenous and religious communes, and then falls apart as soon as it wants to be global, heterogenous, and atheistic.

[Anonymous No.13623205]

>>13623172
There's no "true" communism you fucking idiot, everything that falls under the branch of post-capitalism can be considered communist-influenced.

[Anonymous No.13623239]

>>13623205
The point still stands that anything even close to having collectively owned means of production was always on such a small scale, among people that personally knew one another and had blood-ties, and were driven by a common religious goal. Marxism wishes to do away with these three things, and it's no surprise that it collapses or degenerates into capitalism because of it.
Communism cannot function with anything larger than a village, and it cannot survive the abolishment of religion, either.

[Anonymous No.13623280]

capitalism is an entity, a spirit that keeps the dialectic running along the communist spirit.
this relation has existed throughout humanity only changing the name and evolving when synthesis (thesis) is achieved.
an enlightened person wouldn't obstruct this movement but accelerate it by encouraging people to move into the opposite direction.
a transcended person would see beyond it.

[Anonymous No.13623336]

>>13623280
>an enlightened person wouldn't obstruct this movement but accelerate it by encouraging people to move into the opposite direction.

I agree. In a way, full liberal Capitalism is the faster way to superior automated communism.

[Anonymous No.13623340]

>>13623239
Marx never prescribed a solution he diagnosed the problems. Even "capitalist" societies today have varying degrees of marxism in them in the sense that they acknowledged those problems and implemented policies to deal with it.

Marx never said those things should be "done away" with, he pointed out the problems in focusing too much on those things and he was right. Anyone in 2019 who thinks family and religion are the only things that matter (as they did in the 1800s) is either lying or a fucking retard.

It's true that those who implemented "communism" post ww-2 fucked up and took it all the way to it's logical endpoint but that wasn't "communism" or "marxism", that was their idea of how to solve the problems diagnosed by marx and yes they fucked it up, but to entirely discredit someone who diagnosed problems that undeniably exist today, some of which you yourself probably acknowledge, just because some people took it too far is fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.13623346]

>>13623336
Why do commies still insist that communism is inevitable when it collapsed everywhere and there is no sign of any popular communist movement and the proles dont give a fuck about it either?

[Anonymous No.13623355]

>>13623280
Exactly, there's nothing more demonic than unions, october revolution should have happen in USA

[Anonymous No.13623392]

>>13623280
nah politics could do with less spiritual religious abstract bullshit

[Anonymous No.13623393]

>>13623336
>automated communism.
The most childish of all beliefs.

[Anonymous No.13623430]

>>13623346
your days are numbered burger

[Anonymous No.13623446]

>>13623430
That's the thing, such a threat has no weight behind it. There's nothing threatening about commies anymore, they themselves dont even have any faith that they are really a historical inevitability. It's just a paper tiger; it's no real political force, unlike religious extremism or far right terror, which are both very real

[Anonymous No.13623464]

>>13623346
>>13623355
What's it like when fascists gather in their union in a circle away from their unsatisfied girlfriends and suck each other off?

[Anonymous No.13623477]

>>13623430
What's with the tackyness of modern China?

[Anonymous No.13623481]

>>13623464
>Hurr all politics is about sexual frustration
Anon we've moved past that since the 70's.

[Anonymous No.13623493]

>>13623446
You think communists rose up gradually? No it happens quickly, overnight almost.
It's strange, thinking you're safe when you know most people want you dead but just aren't saying anything.

[Anonymous No.13623513]

>>13623481
Who said you guys were unsatisfied?

[Anonymous No.13623540]

>>13621694
The word you are looking for is tribe.

[Anonymous No.13623544]

>>13623346
it's easy to see the dialectic of the past because we can see the results but it's almost impossible to see the dialectic of the present because the higher entity adds fake ones to hide it from the real so it doesn't stop

[Anonymous No.13623556]

>>13623493
>mfw the commie is so delusional he actually thinks everyone is sympathetic towards communism but they just dont dare to say anything
Mate i work with working class people and they're all reactionary as fuck, and most of them are sympathetic towards the far right.

[Anonymous No.13623627]

>>13623556
This is the truth. I've worked in construction and at a hardware store and every single man I met hated niggers and any other kind of minority and voted for right wing parties. No working class man will ever vote for socialism if it means that niggers and pakis are where our taxes go.

[Anonymous No.13623650]

>>13623556
Oh, so you think most people don't want you dead. Interesting.

[Anonymous No.13623652]

>>13622086
Diffusing the concept to the point it becomes meaningless.

>>13622121
Personal love, the kind you have for friends and family, certainly is finite. You can't have personal relationships with too many people, you didn't evolve that capacity. This comrady would just be another collective identity along the lines of nationalism and racism, a deindividuating force to make people more pliable, conforming and polarized, less reflective, tolerant and self-aware.

[Anonymous No.13623679]

>>13622160
yea parents will kick their children out if they don't pay rent

[Anonymous No.13623746]

>>13623044
>primitive tribes (primitive communism)
Tribes have hierarchies based on age, sex, clans, and wether you are a slave or not.

Engels based his conception of the original family structure on the Iroquois. These peoples are not at all representative of the shared past of humanity. For one, these practiced horticulture, not just foraging as the baser humans would. For another, matrilineality and matrilocality are not universal for "primitives" as 19th century anthropologists believed; on that matter, just recognizing these lineage and settlement systems should be enough to grasp that there is a general human tendency to transmit group membership, status and wealth hereditarily, since that is what these lineages did.

Furthermore, the Iroquois had a cash economy (based on the wampum), an hierarchy of clans within each tribe, a hierarchy of tribes at the confederal level, and practiced slavery, with slaves being part of their households (domestic animals and slaves even shared a word).

Engels either ignored or wasn't aware of this when he wrote The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State. The whole concept of primitive communism is empirically bankrupt.

[Anonymous No.13623759]

>>13623556
>>13623627
>I'm a tough working class guy who hangs out on 4chan lit
HAHAHAHHAAHA shut the fuck up you larping faggot you're some middle-lower class loser who never graduated from uni because you were too fucking stupid, keep leeching off your parents and society in general you fucking loser

[Anonymous No.13623811]

>>13621675
no he didn't go read him

[Anonymous No.13623840]

>>13623759
My dad's a mechanic, senpai. Though i myself am not.
Besides, given how they vote, why are you denying so hard that the working class is reactionary as hell? All statistics indicate the same thing.

[Anonymous No.13623853]

>>13623650
The only people who do are LARPers on the internet who unironically shriek 'gulag' or 'guillotine' whenever someone disagrees with them, but IRL get a nervous breakdown when they have to answer the door.
In reality, most people dont want me dead, except for some psychotic trannies who wont take any lives except for their own.

[Anonymous No.13623907]

>>13623746
It isn't in any aboriginals who are pre-agricultural revolution. The Iroquois were modern and raised crops and thus ammassed wealth. Nomadic tribes do not.

[Anonymous No.13623937]

>>13623840
Yea that's no surprise I knew you were middle-lower class what I'm saying is stop trying to portray yourself like as the tough guy slogging it out on the construction site who preaches fascism like that's the only thing that matters to them.

The truth is yea they are kind of racist but they're not nearly as committed to it as a faggot like you wants them to be. I know, I talk to people from all walks of life, they're racist but only as a matter of function not in the same way a sad fucking loser like you would be because you're incompetent and your life is fucking dogshit.

[Anonymous No.13623951]

>>13623853
>nervous breakdown when answering door
>psychotic tranny
HAHA have you read up on the nazis who went for sex ops after they converted out of nazism

[Anonymous No.13623952]

>>13623493
>>13623650
You talk tough but you can't back it up.

[Anonymous No.13623964]

>>13623952
It's true, fallout new vegas was the best

[Anonymous No.13623966]

>>13623937
Im not 'preaching' fascism. Im describing the attitudes i find in them. They dont give a fuck about class consciousness and they dont think any far left party has anything to offer to them. They care about their family, religion, their nation and job security. The left only claims to offer them anything on one of those aspects, and even that is questionable since neoliberal fetishization for free trade has seeped in.

Honestly, the fact that you got so extemely defensive from me stating a simple fact (the working class being far more reactionary than the middle class or upper class) shows just how frail the modern far left has become, as they are simply unwilling to deal with this. And this isnt a recent phenomenon either, nor is it restricted to the US. Christopher Lasch, himself a Marxist, already described it back in the early 1990's, here:
http://www.tikkun.org/oldsite/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Why-the-Left-Has-No-Future.pdf

Seems you still have no future. The far right does, however.

[Anonymous No.13623979]

>>13623951
I havent. I have seen this hilarious video of the DSA, though. If these are the vanguard of socialism, then socialism is dead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHRxu3XrsHg
This is the current state of the far left, everyone.

[Anonymous No.13624064]

>>13623979
Petty-bourgeois retards were never close to being "the vanguard of socialism". And if one thinks they're a new phenomenon then perhaps one should pick up a history book and read up about the First International anarchists, the Second International social traitors, the Third International popular front garbage, etc.

[Anonymous No.13624066]

>>13623966
>>13623979
Damn what a shift you're suddenly in full academic mode but it's not even academic mode because much like your LARP of the english tough guy your LARP of the academic is fucking dogshit like your life is. Seriously, you're a fucking burden on society everyone fucking hates you, even the tough guy worker you want to be if they spent more than 5 mins with you would tell you to fuck off.
You're not tough enough for the tough guys and you fucked up uni because you were too fucking stupid so you're in this weird place where you're basically fucking useless so you latched onto the recent wave of politics thinking it could make you cooler but what you don't realize is that you were a fucking loser before 2016 and you're still a fucking loser today.

[Anonymous No.13624083]

>>13624066
>WORDS WORDS WORDS
Do you love the sound of your own voice leftoid?

[Anonymous No.13624103]

>>13624066
Nice ad hom argue anytime

[Anonymous No.13624105]

>>13624066
>if you're working class then you cant read political theory
It's really amazing that you have such contempt for the dumb retarded proles. How are you going to have a proletarian revolution when they cant even read basic theory? I suppose that's why they need a strong smart bourgeoise leader like you to lead them, since they cant think for themselves. Dont feel bad, though, even Marx started to hate them when he had to dictate his theory to them, and many didnt find Capital to be that great.
Lasch is easy to read but very insightful, by the way. Can recommend.

>Seriously, you're a fucking burden on society everyone fucking hates you
All i can picture is pic related projecting all his inner fears on an anonymous internet post. Internet posts shouldnt make you this angry, famalam. I think it's really you who is hated by all his peers, probably because you're such an easily offended and contentious person. Work on that. Be better.

[Anonymous No.13624110]

>>13624066
You didn't address a single thing he said, you just called him a loser. Maybe this works for you on twitter or wherever, but you look like an idiot.

[Anonymous No.13624113]

>>13623493
Antifa is a funded organization of liberals larping as “bolsheviks” they are clearly being used because they aren’t a threat anymore. I watched a meeting video of them talking about POC and other edgy anarchist nonsense, they aren’t even talking about class anymore because. Back in the day they had a lot of trouble trying to implement class in america do not it’s just liberal identity politics now.

[Anonymous No.13624142]

>>13623907
>It isn't in any aboriginals who are pre-agricultural revolution.
Yes, there is.

The Tlingit are complex foragers with slavery, property and the famous potlach institution (which is a chance for public displays of wealth and creation of social debt).

https://www.thoughtco.com/complex-hunter-gatherers-170428

San Bushmen overall tend to have hereditary chiefs though they mostly make group decisions by consensus as is typical of village democracies (dissenters simply leave the group or shut up). Among the San, !Kung tend not to have chiefs but still have status differences according to age. One mechanism that enforces relatively great social equality among these groups is the "shaming of the meat" by which people who excel are insulted and snubbed - hardly something I'd want to emulate. Still rather democratic, as with other traditional African "democracies", there is no political majoritanism, consensus is key, and people can just exit the group. These are about as close to "primitive communism" as it gets, to my knowledge, and these groups are small like bands, not actually tribes.

For the Inuit, agriculture was never a possibility and local resource depletion forces their relocation. Still, trade was a very important activity. Durables could be traded for consumables during the lean days and traded for with consumables during the fat days. It is suspected that Inuit even traded with the Norse for iron. Status is awarded to the most generous, most magnanimous, the best providers and planners, as happens in the "big man" societies of Melanesia and Polynesia.

[Anonymous No.13624146]

>>13624105
What makes you think I'm angry, I enjoyed doing that.
I'm gonna head off, I'll let you guys have the last word, make it good.

[Anonymous No.13624151]

>>13624146
you're just example 10 thousand of a commie not being able to argue on 4chan, throwing a tantrum, and then feigning superiority by leaving. You are useful I guess to show the kids what you people are like.

[Anonymous No.13624152]

>>13621694
>this is the communist who tells you you don’t read

[Anonymous No.13624160]

>>13624146
How small are your wrists?

[Anonymous No.13624166]

>>13623907
>>13624142
Also, "nomadic" doesn't imply not having agriculture, since that includes pastoralism and many nomads are pastoralists. Animals are mobile property.

These usually measure each other's wealth by the size of their herds and use their animals as means of exchange.

[Anonymous No.13624213]

>>13623652
The nuclear family is a relatively new concept, the extended family has been the dominant form of social unit since the dawn of our species.

[Anonymous No.13624686]

>>13623966
They will innevitably turn against them when, susrprise, fascist "class collaboration" turns out to be a scam since the proletariat and the burgeoisie have fundamentally different interests and you will always hurt one class by supporting the other. The question is, will it be to late once that happens and find themselves completely powerless against the burgeoisie genocide machine that is the fascist state? I'll admit that an infinite cycle of capital accumulation followed by fascist destruction causing enormous missery is an possibility

[Anonymous No.13624708]

>>13624686
Genocide’s only relation to fascism is in a nationalistic sense, fascism can exist without genocide, which is much better than communism which needs a continual effort of oppression to maintain equality. Class cooperation will be very easy with nationalism because they won’t be able to import foreign ethnic groups to keep people busy while they work their schemes or for those very schemes, also no jews. I like francoism best personally, rather than secular or religous government merge the two into a secular religious state.

[Anonymous No.13624838]

>>13624708
>genocide’s only relation to fascism is in a nationalistic sense, fascism can exist without genocide
fascism only exists to shift the blame away from the burgeoisie during an economic crisis, thus there will be a scapegoat, thus there will be mass killings to keep up the act
also when has fascism ever not been nationalistic?

>which is much better than communism which needs a continual effort of oppression to maintain equality
lol literally the only thing that needs to be done to get rid of the capitalist class is to not enforce private property rights, lets see how workers will hand over the shit they made to some guy claims to own the machine they used because reason

Class cooperation will be very easy with nationalism because they won’t be able to import foreign ethnic groups to keep people busy while they work their schemes or for those very schemes, also no jews
nobody imports anyone you schizo, immigrants come to the west out of their own will because their local economies get destroyed by international corporations infinite search for profit.
speaking of which, those capitalists can just as easily outsource or automate labour once those pesky proles' wages get too high
now which side will the state choose amongst those two classes? ofcourse it will be the ones who can give politicians the biggest ''donations''
>muh joos
daily reminder that the nazi's literally released jewish bankers like the rothschilds and let them escape, and killed countless of jewish proles who had nothing to do with the international finance sector they claimed to be opposing

as for francoism, don't know enough about it to comment on

[Anonymous No.13624885]

To return to some communal notion of child rearing as in Paleolithic times that never actually existed

[Anonymous No.13624891]

>>13621694
I wonder how many /pol/cels were confused by this post. Since they vomit how Marx hates le white families. But it is capitalism what is ripping apart this institution in the name of productivity.

[Anonymous No.13624900]

>>13621694
>I haven’t read it
Of course you haven’t

[Anonymous No.13624918]

>>13622856
if only there was another position, like a 3rd position

[Anonymous No.13624935]

>>13623346
It's a religion to them. It's like if a bunch of people who proclaim to be Christian go to Hell, the Christian afterwards says "Well they weren't doing it right for X and Y reasons."

[Anonymous No.13624946]

>>13622296
sneed

[Anonymous No.13624948]

>>13624708
Are you aware that Spain under Franco was a complete disaster and after that retard died they had an economic miracle?

[Anonymous No.13624959]

>>13624918
>turns out the "3th possition" is just capitalism with more violence
Well i'll be damned

[Anonymous No.13624966]

>>13621675

Leftists have a depraved hatred for the family, because they falsely construe it (e.g. the bourgeois family, the "nuclear" family) as an un-natural, concomitant cultural outcome of capitalism. The village idiot makes my point now that I read its post, but I won't engage it any further than to again ask it for its address that I might shoot it dead and rid the world of it. Who knows, perhaps it will slip up someday.

This misplaced contempt/conflation is exemplified by the exceptionally stupid authors of "Tiqqun":

"The lie of porno is that it claims to represent the obscene, and shows the vanishing point of all representation." In reality, any family dinner, any managers' meeting, is more obscene than a facial cumshot." -Preliminary Materials for a Theory of the Young-Girl, III: The Young-Girl as Social Relationship

[Anonymous No.13624999]

>>13624966
>Leftists hace a depraved hatred for the family
Not really, only for the artificially atomized consumer collective known as the nuclear family

[Anonymous No.13625017]

>>13624999
You mean marriage, lefties hate marriage, except in the case of using it to debase the religious institution that governs it, or in turning it into a noncommittal neoliberal toy.

[Anonymous No.13625035]

>>13625017
>leftist
>neoliberal
?
Are you an american confused by the word "liberal"

[Anonymous No.13625043]

>>13624999
you can be perfectly happy as just a wife and husband with kids. It helps to have a larger support system but not all families are just 'atomized consumer collectives', that's incredibly cynical. Many people genuinely dont really give a shit about objects outside their functionality, and they do a lot of the work on their house or whatever themselves, just to make it look nice to them. And even the ones brainwashed into buying random shit all the time don't necessarily not love each other or have good relations with one another, and it's not like that doesn't apply to people in other living circumstances just as much. There are so many things to hate and criticize I have no idea why you would choose family as a target, it's all a lot of people even have.

When you say you want to abolish the family, it doesn't sound like you want to create some meaningful new way of interacting with people, it sounds like you just want to destroy something people cherish, which is also generally how it sounds when you talk about toppling the political regimes of countries or altering their culture through totalitarian means. It sounds like malice basically, enjoying destroying things. You're not tending to a garden, youre just setting it on fire and promising heaven will spring from the ashes.

It's like an entire culture of people who noticed there was wrong in the world and their reaction is to call everything good in the world actually evil, through abstract systems of thought that promise some vague future reconciliation to the problems we have.

[Anonymous No.13625096]

>>13625043
You ignored the "artificial" part
The overwelming prevalence of the nuclear family in the US and to a lesser extend europe definately was socially engineered to optimize this mode of production. And no, destroying the nuclear family isn't a goal in itself, but is just something that will happen naturally in a post capitalist society, or at least will become less common. If some people still want to associate intimately with only their spouse and children they can go right ahead, why would i care

[Anonymous No.13625288]

>>13623392
That's what ruined politics, evangelicals aren't spiritual.

[Anonymous No.13626232]

is Kapital and the Communist manifaso banned under the Communist Party of China?

[Anonymous No.13626263]

>>13621694
>posts about marx
>hasn't actually read him

Hello Dr. Peterson!

[Anonymous No.13626328]

>>13621675
>Why did this nigga want to abolish the family?
To get access to White children and stop their fathers from cockblocking them.

[Anonymous No.13626382]

>>13624891
Yea /pol/cels will lose their minds when they find out that capitalism is bad! Everyone knows fascists are in support of capitalism! Haha you got them good!!!

[Anonymous No.13626692]

>>13624142
From my understanding, complex hunter gatherers, who practised exchange value and stock, were already post neolitic era. You shouldn't find stocks, economy, hierarchy, trade, in something like -50000 BCE.
"Shaming of the meat" seems unfair, but is was/is necessary, otherwise you end with something like Jeffrey Epstein, the Clintons, Merkel, Macron, the central bankers etc...

[Anonymous No.13626721]

>>13626382
No, they will lose their minds when they find out what capitalism is and that fascism does nothing to solve the problems it creates because it does nothing to abolish it.

[Anonymous No.13626725]

>>13623966
>They dont give a fuck about class consciousness and they dont think any far left party has anything to offer to them. They care about their family, religion, their nation and job security.

Your are smarter than the average alt-right. Congrats. I'm also a former alt-right.
However, what you don't seem to understand, is that Capitalism will crush, destroy these concepts of family, religion, nation and job security. It is inevitable. You cannot control the beast.
Why do you think i became Marxist, because i love the gay pride? :s

[Anonymous No.13626766]

>>13626725
>former alt-right
>now a Marxist
You were always retarded and a faggot

[Anonymous No.13626800]

>>13623979
Yes they are retards. Fuck the vanguard, Marx never talked about a Vanguard. The spirit of class struggle lives in spontaneous movement, not organized ones. The yellow vest recently for example. You can say they are fascist all you want. When they decide to block the highway, to invade public spaces, to occupy roundabout, they are not fascist. Some have fascist tendencies because social democracy fucked them so badly that they have more sympathy for fascism than for Merkel, Macron or the Clintons. However, they aren't inherently fascist. Yellow vest want direct democracy. This is the opposite of fascism.

[Anonymous No.13626881]

>>13626800
>The spirit of class struggle lives in spontaneous movement
Which almost never happens and the few times it does happen is also quite often reactionary (like the Yellow Vests, 30% of whom voted for FN). Good luck having a proletarian uprising without the proles.

[Anonymous No.13626902]

>>13626881
Oh do you think us anarcho communist support Melanchon or Bernie Sanders?
You still don't understand.

[Anonymous No.13626906]

>>13626692
>were already post neolitic era
Neolithic is characterized by the first development of agriculture. This was about 12,000. At the time, Earth had been reeling from the last glacial maximum, which had ice sheets over much of Europe, Asia and North America. This would suggest Inuit-like cultures, adapted to long periods of cold and scarcity, were more widespread than today over the northern hemisphere. Precisely, there have been discovered the archeological remains of paleoeskimo and cultures going back +20000 years BP, and the direct descendants of these cultures would've only gone the way of the Dodo 700 years ago with viking diseases - recently enough for them being featured in Inuit oral tradition.

We could also see in Patagonia complex social structures (patriarchy, with polygeny contingent on the man's status), commercial institutions (trade including bride price), and hereditary property rights (groups were traditional owners of hunting grounds, including in absentia, requiring permission for outsider under threat of war). The kicker is that these were strictly nomadic hunter-gatherers.

Many kinds of animals store food in their homes and hard-to-access places, humans weren't the first by a long shot. Not like physical stores were a necessity, as social debt from gift/tribute and slavery from conquest don't require such things.


Shaming the meat is how you end up without Newtons, Teslas, Darwins, etc. San's ressentment-of-excelene culture might have doomed to be superceded by the expanding Bantu culture from day one, since they were strictly averse to each others' betterment.

[Anonymous No.13626922]

>>13626902
No, but Yellow Vests arent anarcho commies, and they are vastly outnumbered by fascists. Also if you really think the working class is stupid, then how do you expect them to rule themselves in an anarchist commune without it collapsing, yet again?

[Anonymous No.13626954]

>>13626800
>Direct Democracy

People still take this meme seriously? Shits been btfo since literal ancient times

[Anonymous No.13626971]

>>13626800
How does anyone know nigger, have you spoken to them? They are a very unorganized mess with all kinds of people who are sick of the governments shit.

[Anonymous No.13626983]

>>13626800
Spontaneous spirit can't defeat the US army.

>>13626954
Anarchists live in a parallel universe.

[Anonymous No.13626999]

>>13621675
This is something I’ve heard literal Nazis talk about and I somewhat agree with them. The artificial community of suburbia is and the formation of the nuclear family, actually alienates us from the extended family (grandparents, cousins, aunts/uncles, etc.) who we would likely be around in the cities. The nuclear family structure is not authentic, and is really only an economic unit.

[Anonymous No.13627008]

>>13626906
>(groups were traditional owners of hunting grounds, including in absentia, requiring permission for outsider under threat of war)

Yes human tribes didn't share with other tribes. The sharing was done inside the tribe. Today, the tribe is supposed to be the country. However, no sharing is done.

The most "pure" homo sapiens, in hunter gatherer condition, totally isolated from other culture, is the Australian aboriginal.
They didn't know exchange value. In any case, they didn't have anything to exchange, since they were pure hunter gatherer. No flock or herd.
This suggest for me, that humans, in their purest form, don't have stocks, don't practice exchange value, and thus don't have hierarchies based on private property of the means of production. Many studies proved that hierarchy in the primitive tribe was only temporary. There was no chief who had an absolute authority on the members of the tribe.

>Newtons, Teslas, Darwins
You should have chosen a different example for your thesis.
Tesla was shamed not by the working class, the average Joe without power, but by the establishment. Mostly by a more powerful guy: Edison, who did everything he could to sink him.
Newton had the modesty to admit that he was "standing on the shoulder of giants."
Shaming of the meat, from what i understand, is not about being jalous of the successful but modest guy, it's about bringing down the asshole who think he is the best and deserves more than the others.

[Anonymous No.13627037]

>>13626922
>No, but Yellow Vests arent anarcho commies, and they are vastly outnumbered by fascists.
They don't even know what anarcho-communism is. They'll come to their senses in time. As will you.

>have you spoken to them?
Yes.
>Spontaneous spirit can't defeat the US army.
Of course it can. Once it reaches a certain point.

[Anonymous No.13627042]

Why would further access to oppurtunity want me to stick around with my family in one place?

[Anonymous No.13627083]

>>13627037
>Yes but they aren't communists j-just give it time
?????

[Anonymous No.13627121]

>>13622819
Based Lasch

[Anonymous No.13627228]

>mfw i learned capitalism requires a percentage of the population to perpetually be unemployed in poverty to keep wages low

what the fuck is the point of capitalism if it requires all of these institutions and preserving mechanisms to keep it from collapsing? i'm convinced our epidemic of NEETdom is intentional and we don't have gfs because of capitalism

[Anonymous No.13627243]

>>13624935
Based and Norman Cohnpilled

[Anonymous No.13627290]

>>13625096
>If some people still want to associate intimately with only their spouse and children they can go right ahead, why would i care
If the people doing that thrive above and beyond the rest, you will tear them down for their privilege. We've heard it all before, fuck off

[Anonymous No.13627308]

>>13626906
Good posts. Thank you for trying to teach ancom kiddies modern anthropology, not Engelian bilge

[Anonymous No.13627687]

>>13626721
t. Hasn't read a Fascist book

[Anonymous No.13627719]

>>13627228
>>mfw i learned capitalism requires a percentage of the population to perpetually be unemployed in poverty to keep wages low
It does indeed need unemployment to keep wages at unnaturally low levels. This is why government regulation is tantamount to tyranny since it allows this unnatural state to be the new equilibrium, but it is a false equilibrium and requires constant new regulation to keep it afloat. The current system is a corrupt version of capitalism.

Perhaps this is the natural course of a capitalist system, just like communism always leads to totalitarian tyranny even though that goes against the expressed goal.

Perhaps this degradation only happens in democracies, owing to that it is never in a democratically elected politician to work for the betterment of the state and it's people but rather for self gain.

If only there was a third way...

[Anonymous No.13627746]

>>13621675
I thought he hated whores for ruining the family unit.

[Anonymous No.13627748]

>>13627719
>wing to that it is never in a democratically elected politician's interest

Sorry I forgot a key word.

[Anonymous No.13627759]

>>13627719
>anarcho capitalist
fucking dropped my friend

[Anonymous No.13627786]

>>13627759
based