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/lit/ - Literature


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13790219 No.13790219 [Reply] [Original]

Which edition of The Cloud of Unknowing is the best?

I personally prefer editions that "translate" old english to modern english. Also, the more notes the better.

>> No.13790237

>>13790219
Aren't there editions of Chaucer that only translate words in the margins? Are there editions for this like that too?

>> No.13790457

>>13790219
whats the gist of it op? that god's unknowable? ya no kidding.. does it offer a solution tho?

>> No.13790510

>>13790219
TEAMS has useful notes. The language is very readable and doesn't need translation. It's closer to Shakespeare than to Chaucer, and nothing like Old English.

>> No.13790608

>>13790457
Contemplative meditation seems to be the solution, haven't read yet though

>>13790510
>TEAMS
?

>> No.13790655

>>13790219
That's a cool cover. I'd go with that one.

>> No.13790684

>>13790655
Looks like something out of Neon Genesis Evangelion

>> No.13790716
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13790716

The Classics of Western Spirituality is what a professor recc'd to me. It has a really comprehensive introduction that lays out the context, authorship, and influences on the text. Plus, it's got a pretty handsome cover.

>> No.13790733

>>13790237
Just a note: glossing words or phrases works for Chaucer because it's written in London-dialect Middle English, which evolved into Modern English. The Cloud of Unknowing isn't written in the London-dialect, so it's much more difficult to gloss.

>> No.13790749

>>13790716
what do you study to get a rec like that, theology?

>> No.13790767

>>13790219
>he hasn't mastered old english yet
crinch

>> No.13790778

>>13790749
I'm a graduate student in English Literature. I did an independent study with a wonderful professor on 17th century British prose, mostly religious prose. The final paper I wrote for the study was about John Donne and the influence of apophatic theology on his sermons & poetry, so The Cloud of Unknowing was pretty important to include. The professor did his dissertation on Thomas Vaughan (brother of Henry) and knew a shitton about Rosicrucianism, alchemy, and esoteric Christian traditions. I am hoping to translate my MA in English Lit into a theological school, since I'm disillusioned about English Literature departments based on my experience.

>> No.13790783
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13790783

>>13790767
The Cloud is written in Middle English, not Old English. Anyone who has taken an undergraduate survey would know that, brother.

>> No.13790795
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13790795

>>13790608
TEAMS Middle English Texts, Kalamazoo
https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Unknowing-Middle-English-Kalamazoo/dp/1879288893

>> No.13790826

>>13790783
>Anyone who has taken an undergraduate survey would know that, brother.

if you feel the need to resort to ur shitty undergrad uni education then pls kys lmaoooo pussy, also stop calling people on the internet "brother", we're not related! retard!!

>> No.13791166

good luck op.
I'm not the type to give up on book's but around a quarter of the way into this i realized i was through. That was with the old translation.

>> No.13791183
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13791183

>>13790826
You're a fag for using "lmao" and "pls" ironically, and a retard for not knowing the difference between Old and Middle English.

>> No.13791213

>>13790716
Good choice

>> No.13791275

>>13790716
>>13790778
Thanks for these posts.

>> No.13791356

I've been planning to order The Cloud of Unknowing but I don't want a modern english edition. Is the original english really discrepant from modern english?

>>13790716
Is it in modern english?

>> No.13791983

>>13790778
Absolutely based dude. Is grad school for theology hard to get into? Worth it? It seems like a dream come true, just reading mystic texts and making commentaries. Super comfy desu. Good luck anon, rootin' for ya.

>> No.13792498

Seriously, what are you folks worried about? You don't need any help to read the Cloud. It's fucking easy. If the spelling trips you up, read it out loud. Look:

Here biginneth the prolog.

In the name of the Fader and of the Sone and of the Holy Goost.
I charge thee and I beseche thee, with as moche power and vertewe as the bonde of
charité is sufficient to suffre, whatsoever thou be that this book schalt have in pos-
session, outher bi propirté outher by keping, by bering as messenger or elles bi bor-
owing, that in as moche as in thee is by wille and avisement, neither thou rede it, ne
write it, ne speke it, ne yit suffre it be red, wretyn, or spokyn, of any or to any, bot
yif it be of soche one or to soche one that hath (bi thi supposing) in a trewe wille and
by an hole entent, purposed him to be a parfite folower of Criste, not only in actyve
leving, bot in the sovereinnest pointe of contemplatif leving the whiche is possible by
grace for to be comen to in this present liif of a parfite soule yit abiding in this deedly
body; and therto that doth that in him is, and bi thi supposing, hath do longe tyme
before, for to able him to contemplative levyng by the vertuous menes of active
levyng. For elles it acordeth nothing to him.
And, over this, I charge thee and I beseche thee, bi the autorité of charité, that yif
any soche schal rede it, write it, or speke it, or elles here it be red or spokin, that thou
charge hem, as I do thee, for to take hem tyme to rede it, speke it, write it, or here it,
al over. For, paraventure, ther is som mater therin, in the beginnyng or in the middel,
the whiche is hanging and not fully declared ther it stondeth; and yif it be not there, it
is sone after, or elles in the ende. Wherfore, yif a man saw o mater and not another,
paraventure he might lightly be led into errour. And therfore, in eschewing of this
errour bothe in thiself and in alle other, I preye thee par charité do as I sey thee.
Fleschely janglers, opyn preisers and blamers of hemself or of any other, tithing
tellers, rouners and tutilers of tales, and alle maner of pinchers, kept I never that thei
sawe this book. For myn entent was never to write soche thing unto hem. And ther
fore I wolde that thei medel not therwith, neither thei ne any of thees corious lettred
or lewed men. Ye, though al that thei be ful good men of active levyng, yit this mater
acordeth nothing to hem; but yif it be to thoo men the whiche, though al thei stonde
in actyveté bi outward forme of levyng, nevertheles yit bi inward stering after the
privé sperit of God, Whos domes ben hid, thei ben ful graciously disposid, not contyn-
owely as it is propre to verrey contemplatyves, bot than and than to be parceners
in the hieghst pointe of this contemplative acte: yif soche men might se it, thei schuld
by the grace of God be greetly counforted therby.

>> No.13792794

>>13792498
Unreadable

>> No.13792841

>>13790608
https://d.lib.rochester.edu/teams

>> No.13793438

>>13792794
Nigga, I'm not even British and even I can read it.

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