/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13957278]

How come Jesus rejected the begging Canaanite woman, called her a racist slur when she begged for help, and told the apostles not to go to Gentile towns?
This is the first time I've ever questioned whether Christ really cared that much about non Jews. He was just so cold to that woman.
Help me /lit/

[Anonymous No.13957304]

>>13957278
>Canaanite woman

21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

[Anonymous No.13957306]

>>13957278
Fact: after that, the holy ghost came to the apostles and gave them the gift of tongues, commanding them to spread the Word everywhere. Acts of the Apostles.

[Anonymous No.13957383]

The kingdom had to be offered fully to the jews first, in fulfillment of the old testament prophecies.
This is a kind of turning point. Contrast what is happening in Isreal -- he is being challenged to prove he is the messiah with a sign. And here in gentile territory he meets a woman who had faith and was convinced he was the messiah. His putting her off was a kind od test of her faith (which is in his character -- "why are you calling me good, there is no one good but God).
Jesus is making it clear that the grace of God will be given to all who believe, even though His mission called for him to present himself to Isreal as the son of David.

[Anonymous No.13957397]

>24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
People act like Jesus wasn't on a mission and was just improvising. He tells the storm to be still and it obeys him but he's supposed to act in a way that makes us comfortable? Do you think that him dying on the cross was a fluke?

[Anonymous No.13957405]

>>13957383
This. Jesus originally came to help the Jews and reform their ways. Once the Jews rejected him, he withdrew the kingdom of heaven for them and placed it among a better nation more willing to follow its will, namely the Roman nation.

"[42] Jesus saith to them: Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? By the Lord this has been done; and it is wonderful in our eyes. [43] Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof."

Also he didn't call her a racist slur, the Greek is best translated as "little pup."

[Anonymous No.13957548]

>>13957278
>>13957304
>>13957383
We are all of us the lost sheep of Israel. Israel does not mean only the jews or the hebrews. Israel means "he that wrestles with God," or "he that strives with God." The nation of Israel is the people who are faithful to God. God offered this to the biological descendants of Abraham. Only a portion of these remained faithful, and even those who were faithful were barely so. One of Jesus most essential teachings is that the spirit is greater and more important than the body--that the visible things are less than the invisible things. So, as much as it was the people who called themselves Israelites who God came to save, he came to save all those who would walk with him. With this Canaanite woman, he shows many lessons. By doing as she requested, he showed the apostles that even a Canaanite woman was part of the true, spiritual nation of Israel; after all, he is not contradicting himself when he does as she asks and says he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. Further, in a personal way, he tested this woman's devotion, making sure she did not seek him out of some lust for power, but out of a true desire to find salvation for her daughter. In doing so publicly, he demonstrated the incredible virtue of humility; he did not call her a dog, but she bowed down before him and was willing to be placed with the dogs simply so that her daughter would suffer no more. This is in strong contrast to the haughty pride of the apostles who wished to do away with here; this further teaches that in seeking the lost sheep of Israel, true disciples must seek even and especially those who the world would tell them to reject. Any one who does not humble themselves will not find salvation. One who holds themselves above others and says those people are not worth saving, not worth the gift of salvation, is against Christ. When taken with other passages, we begin to get a very clear sense of God's radical charity to which all are called. This is not merely, as has become common today, a charity of physical goods. It is not enough to merely give money or clothing. While it is good to alleviate the physical suffering of the poor, what is most good is to alleviate the spiritual suffering of those who suffer most. What's more, even to receive a crumb is more than deserved, while at the same time, there is enough for all to be nourished and it is freely given so long as we humbly place ourselves at the feet of our Lord as his obedient children.

[Anonymous No.13957920]

>>13957548
I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners Luke 5:32

[Anonymous No.13957941]

>>13957920
And who among us, in our moments of clarity, thinks we are without sin? Pray then that all people may see themselves as God sees them, especially oneself.

[Anonymous No.13958189]

>>13957278
testing her faith

[Anonymous No.13958556]

>>13957304
wtf I hate Jesus now

[Anonymous No.13959085]

>>13958189
Doesn't he already know everything though? So, there would be no need to test her faith at all since he already knows what she'll do.

[Old Man No.13959182]

>>13959085
How can I know what God knows? How can I know how He thinks and how Jesus thought? The OP asked of the significance of Jesus calling the Canaanite woman a slur, I answered.

>hurr if God good why God do this
How can you judge God? How can the painting try and judge the painter from its limited perspective and standing?

[Anonymous No.13959398]

>tfw the main reason you dislike christianity is that jesus was not white

[Anonymous No.13959413]

>>13957278
basically to prove a point. the Pharisees were watching this go down, so it was a manner of showing both the Apostles and the Pharisees that faith was more important than being a Jew

[Anonymous No.13959447]

>>13957278
Jesus really isnt all he’s cracked up to be when ypu actually sit downand read the bible. He’s sort of a dick desu

[Anonymous No.13959461]

He was obviously testing her to see if she could overcome her ethnic distrust to accept a Jew as her savior, as an example to his disciples. Misinterpreting this as sincere racism on Jesus' part is such a reach you just have to laugh.

[Anonymous No.13959706]

>>13957405
It's not "little pup". Canaanites hadn't been called that in ages for one, and "dog" in this context can be translated as a racist slur. Jesus was pretty clearly rude to her and clearly said to his disciples not to go to non Israelites.

[Anonymous No.13959716]

>>13959461
How is it her ethnic distrust though? She literally begs him to help her daughter and doesn't say anything about him being a Jew.

[Anonymous No.13959758]

>>13959716
The jews and canaanites have history

[Anonymous No.13959780]

>>13959706
I'm translating the Greek.

[Anonymous No.13959943]

>>13959780
So am I and you're stretching it way too far to put an affectionate tone in that context. Christ dismissed her, plain and simple. Even if he said "it is not meet to take the children's bread and cast it to little pups" that's still a dismissal albeit with a slightly less harsh tone. But the term did have history as a term the Jews used to refer to the Canaanites, and Matthew refers to her as a Canaanite despite the fact that they weren't even called that at the time unless you had an axe to grind with them.
It's very hard to interpret exactly what Christ aims to do here but he isn't exactly kind to the woman no matter how you translate it.

[Anonymous No.13959956]

>>13959758
Where was the part where Christians were allowed to be dicks if we had a past ethnic conflict?

[Anonymous No.13959963]

>>13957278
Christ rejected anti-Roman and anti-Samaritan racism, and was racist against kikes Himself.
Canaanites were how we should morally perceive jews today.

[Anonymous No.13959969]

>>13959963
Where did he do this?

[Anonymous No.13960077]

>>13959956
Mathew 15

[Anonymous No.13960161]

>>13960077
kek

[Anonymous No.13960182]

what do you guys think about people that seek God out of fear or as cope? is this kind of faith a true faith?

[Anonymous No.13960233]

like, theres carl, carl did almost everything right, went to purgatory, then they asked him why did he follow Jesus teachings, carl says "ayy bruh i was just afraid of hell"

[Anonymous No.13960268]

>>13960182
I don't think it's our place to judge the legitimacy of peoples faith

[Anonymous No.13960761]

>>13960182
I think as long as it is out of the heart of wanting to become better, that itself acknowledges that they are in the shit in the first place, so seeking out God, you can even say out of realizing one's own limit, is just as real. What is weak, though, is when they do it to feel better than others.

[Anonymous No.13960917]

>>13959085
The person being tested gains something from the test. God does not need anything proved to Him, but people need to go through the trials He puts them through.

[Anonymous No.13960928]

>>13959956
He isn't being a dick. He's testing to see if she's a dick, knowing she's not, so she can set an example to both his disciples (who were being dicks) and the Pharisess (who are always dicks).

[Anonymous No.13960941]

>>13958189
Weird how he only tested the dirty dirty subhuman goyims in such a way. Very cool of the rabbi.

[Anonymous No.13960960]

>>13960941
[8] But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master; and all you are brethren.

Christ abolished the Rabbihood. Try again.

[Anonymous No.13960974]

>>13960960
ohh okay that changes everything then

goyims btfo

[Anonymous No.13961001]

>>13960941
>>13959969
Christ had this to say about the Jews:
[33] You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell?

He had said soon soon after he had withdrew the kingdom of heaven from the Jewish people and handed it to Rome:
[42] Jesus saith to them: Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? By the Lord this has been done; and it is wonderful in our eyes. [43] Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof. [44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it shall grind him to powder.

>>13958189
>>13959413
>>13960917
>>13960928
>>13957278
The message behind this story was that Christ originally came to save the lost sheep of Israel, he therefore prioritized the Jews. Upon experiencing nothing but contempt, disbelief and hatred from the Jews, he not only withdrew the kingdom of heaven from them, but he also cursed them heavily:
[37] Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? [38] Behold, your house shall be left to you, desolate.

The Jews rejected Christ and he therefore rejected them a picked a better nation more worthy of divine grace: ROME. And the European peoples. And accordingly, all those who embraced his holiness.

It's pretty boring seeing anti-semites mock Jesus. Just read the Gospels and tell me how Jesus felt about the Jews and the Jews felt about him.

[Anonymous No.13961024]

>>13961001
>Christ had this to say about the Jews:
Wrong. He had that to say about a specific faction within Judaism that opposed him. He was himself very much a Jew and a proud one at that. Which is partly the reason why he forced that goyim whore to grovel at his feet while he and his Jewish followers taunted her.

But in the end she accepted her dog status and prostrated herself in humiliation in front of Jesus so he gave her what she wanted. Praise him for that and I for one love that salvation is now open for us; the goyim, too albeit by proxy "of the Jews". Deus vult!

[Anonymous No.13961026]

>>13959085
God knows all, but the woman didn't yet know that she has that humility in herself. She needed to demonstrate it.

[Anonymous No.13961038]

>>13960182
Its valid. God wants to embrace you. Jesus wants to forgive you.

[Anonymous No.13961041]

>>13961024
Good bait.

[Anonymous No.13961044]

Some verses after He commands the disciples to preach to all nations.

>>13959706
It is in the diminutive. It is not the same as dog used in other verses. It's little pup

[Anonymous No.13961057]

>>13960182
Fear is a very real emotion; the moral forces of good and evil are tangible. Evil can shock people into pursuing God in my opinion and fear can definitely drive people to God. There is nothing wrong with this. For example, the man who sees online a drugged drag child being paraded on stage for the viewing pleasure of full-grown perverts may very well see evil and feel real fear. How could a good man not? And I think he who sees evil and flees into God's arms is certainly valid in doing so. Although I'm not sure what sort of fear you were referring to. Even existential fear is a valid reason to come to God. Recognizing your ontological fragility and seeking comfort in God, the highest ontological being possible, is a beautiful thing.

[Anonymous No.13961060]

>>13961057
He was referring to fear of punishment.

[Anonymous No.13961062]

>>13960182
Seriously, anyone who has trouble unlocking spirituality listen to Om - Adviatic Songs while high, then read The Beatitudes and imagine yourself being Paul writing them down. You will then know G-d.

[Anonymous No.13961073]

>>13961060
People performing evil acts should certainly feel afraid for their actions; they may evade temporal law but they cannot evade metaphysical law.

[Anonymous No.13961080]

What's the best translation to read?

[Anonymous No.13961086]

>>13961080
Douay-Rheims in English. The Vulgate is the best translation to date in any language. You should probably read both.

[Anonymous No.13961094]

He did help her tho, it's all based on faith, not on genetics. And we all now know that Israel is the church so his words don't simply mean the Jews.

[Anonymous No.13961366]

>>13961094
Sure, he did help her, but are you really satisfied with that? Christ let her beg and humiliate herself while her apostles stood by doing nothing to help her, and although Israel may mean the faithful and therefore the church now, at the time there's a fairly solid case to be made that Christ and his disciples were only really concerned with the Jews first and foremost.
If Christ called black people niggers in the bible, would you not expect black people to think twice before placing their faith in him (regardless of anyone's opinion of black people)? As a gentile, seeing Christ turn away a gentile begging for help because he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, and that it was not meet to give the children's bread to the dogs, is almost like hearing God say he doesn't give a fuck about you because you weren't born right.

[Anonymous No.13961407]

>>13957304
He's just giving her a shit-test to see If she's actually convinced or not.
People from all over are coming to pray him for deliverance at this point.

[Anonymous No.13961413]

>>13961407
Was he giving the 12 disciples the same shit test when he told them to stay out of the towns of gentiles and avoid the Samaritans?

[Anonymous No.13961591]

>>13961086
>Vulgate
https://chaharrah.tv/chaharrah-depot/arthouse/latin-attachments/latin-book.pdf
Is this a good method to learn latin ?

[Anonymous No.13961663]

>>13957278
He was testing to see if she was a serious believer or if she was just begging for handouts.

[Anonymous No.13961767]

>>13961413
He told them to leave their jobs/families behind.

[Anonymous No.13961864]

>>13961767
Sure, and he also told them not to go to the gentiles. Why does the son of God give explicit preference to the Jews and insult a gentile woman?

[Anonymous No.13961865]

>>13961366
Christ opens the covenant and that story is party a testament to that. So no there is no case to be made that Christ was only consent about the Jews. And a small test of faith is not that bad for a mirical.

[Anonymous No.13961872]

>>13961865
>small test of faith
Fine, but how do we know it was a test of faith?
Why were the disciples of Christ instructed by Christ himself not to preach to the gentiles, and only to Israel, if he really intended his message to be for all people everywhere?

[Anonymous No.13961880]

>>13961865
>So no there is no case to be made that Christ was only consent about the Jews
Christ says repeatedly that he has been sent only for Israel.
That may change after his crucifixion, but those were his own words before his death.

[Anonymous No.13961966]

>>13961872
>>13961880
Don't pick and choose parts of the message. He has come to fulfill the law and the prophesys. And even In there in issaia and Daniel(maybe I have kind of forgotten it to be honest) you can find that the covent will be open and God will be worshipped by all.
So in a sense Jesus is there for the Jews but so he can be rejected and fullfil the text.

[Anonymous No.13962151]

>>13961966
>Don't pick and choose parts of the message
Nobody's ignoring the rest, but we should be able to ask for a decent answer why Christ spoke like that about the woman who needed his help instead of handwaving it away with "oh, it was a test, never mind" like a teacher who gets caught making a mistake by a kid

[Anonymous No.13962907]

>>13961872
>Fine, but how do we know it was a test of faith?
See this >>13957304
>“Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.”

Learn to read pls.

[Anonymous No.13962964]

>>13957304
fpbp

[Anonymous No.13963094]

>>13960268
>>13960761
Am I witnessing actually quality posts on this website right now?

[Anonymous No.13963182]

>>13963094
This is what happens when you encounter christians.