/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14092105]

Uh... so why do people say that NatSoc is wrong about Nietzsche again?

[Anonymous No.14092112]

E L I S I B E T H F O S T E R N I E T Z S C H E

[Anonymous No.14092116]

>>14092105
>NatSoc
HAHAHAHA MEME IDEOLOGY

[Anonymous No.14092118]

>>14092112
had nothing to do with the present rendition of the book.

[Anonymous No.14092179]

>>14092105
Go read on what he thought about antisemitism and nationalism. Nazis are anti-tellectualist plebs, no wonder they can't grasp anything about Nietzsche's thought.

[Anonymous No.14092206]

>>14092179
>antisemitism and nationalism
These are unrelated to national socialism. He advocates a number of major points of the national socialists in that book.

[Anonymous No.14092208]

>>14092105
How about reading the book you retard. Traditionalism is quite literally antithetical to everything he wrote.

[Anonymous No.14092212]

>>14092208
>Traditionalism
Also unrelated. What the fuck?

[Anonymous No.14092223]

>>14092212
Traditionalism is unrelated to natsoc? Read a history book before Nietzsche, actually. The nazis didn't create any new ideas, and were slaves to slave morality.

[Anonymous No.14092247]

Read Emerson before you read Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.14092250]

>>14092223
>Traditionalism is unrelated to natsoc?
It's foremost and grandest ideas, yeah. Nietzsche wasn't against any ideology whatsoever if used in order to cull certain social classes, and he says so explicitly in the book.

[Anonymous No.14092259]

>>14092250
>Nietzsche wasn't against any ideology
kek

[Anonymous No.14092260]

>>14092259
You literally haven't read the fucking book. Do I need to pull up the passage for your dumb ass?

[Anonymous No.14092291]

>>14092260
Post the passage so I can laugh at your interpretation. Go on.

[Anonymous No.14092295]

Neither of these people can pull up an excerpt to support their claim. /lit/ is cringe. The people here are so arrogant yet so stupid.

[Anonymous No.14092301]

>>14092291
K, I'll wait.

>>14092295
Have some damn patience. Was it even 15 minutes?

[Anonymous No.14092310]

>>14092301
this is literally the opposite of what you said it was holy brainlet

[Anonymous No.14092318]

>>14092301
This is quite clearly critiquing the herd instinct that surrounds religion and ideology. Might I ask if you are disabled, OP?

[Anonymous No.14092325]

>>14092310
>We are ahead of our fellow men in possessing a disciplina voluntatis. All strength applied to development of strength of the will, an art that permits us to wear masks
As in, he and his own are capable of supporting contradictory ideologies in order to cull and create their ideal society.

Ridiculous how so many people who read Nietzsche think that the philosophy he espoused was meant for anyone and everyone to follow; not once does he ever prescribe a universal philosophy. You fools have no idea what it means to be purely anti-egalitarian like him.

[Anonymous No.14092326]

>>14092206
His sister edited it and she was a proto-Nazi

[Anonymous No.14092335]

>>14092325
Lol now show me how you think that's congruent with natsoc

[Anonymous No.14092346]

>>14092318
It's not a fucking critique at all. He says RIGHT THERE that "we demand that herd morality should be held sacred unconditionally." Then he goes on to saying that different philosophies, including pessimistic and nihilistic ones, are to be employed with different peoples, in order to cull them for future reaping.

>>14092326
The edits have already been pruned.

>>14092335
The foremost and grandest ideas of natsoc are anti-egalitarian, because its goals aren't to end with natsoc. It's not about flattening society, it's about culling it for the future.

[Anonymous No.14092350]

>>14092346
the future aristocracy.*

[Anonymous No.14092359]

>>14092346
>The foremost and grandest ideas of natsoc are anti-egalitarian, because its goals aren't to end with natsoc. It's not about flattening society, it's about culling it for the future.
Literally every natsoc movement danced to the beat of tradition and traditional ideas of morality. Just because they postured about strength does not make it Nietzschean. Christ.

[Anonymous No.14092370]

>>14092346
>It's not a fucking critique at all. He says RIGHT THERE that "we demand that herd morality should be held sacred unconditionally
holy brainlet you think he's advocating for it instead of pointing to how liberal demoracy breeds it as a sickness. holy

[Anonymous No.14092374]

>>14092359
>Literally every natsoc movement danced to the beat of tradition and traditional ideas of morality.
For the Nazis whose leader read him, these were masks. It's a sign of a lack of education to think otherwise.

[Anonymous No.14092378]

>>14092370
You have no idea how politics work. Leave the thread.

[Anonymous No.14092396]

>>14092378
die brainlet. he wrote against liberal society multiple times. hes absolutely and very clearly not advocating for the european condition; he detests it. he is simply describing it. read the context.

[Anonymous No.14092409]

>>14092396
He advocates for these ideologies as masks employed as useful means right there and in other passages goes deeper into this political strategy. Again, you idiots haven't read the book.

[Anonymous No.14092410]

>>14092374
>For the Nazis whose leader read him, these were masks.
yeah dude they were just pretending *laughs at your stupidit*

[Anonymous No.14092412]

>>14092206
>These are unrelated to national socialism.
Are you an american or something?

[Anonymous No.14092417]

>>14092410
Someone seriously trying to apply Nietzsche's politics from this book in the early 20th century Germany would do as the Nazis did and not another way. Your failure to understand how is linked to your failure to read.

[Anonymous No.14092441]

>>14092417
>Someone seriously trying to apply Nietzsche's politics from this book in the early 20th century Germany would do as the Nazis did and not another way
everything you say is so easily refuted that it's ridiculous. lmao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_and_Friedrich_Nietzsche
>Your failure to understand how is linked to your failure to read.
you quite literally read those 2 pages you linked thinking he was advocating for that instead of speaking on it. learn to read, retard. absolute retard holy

[Anonymous No.14092471]

>>14092417
>Someone seriously trying to apply Nietzsche's politics
You said this before:
>not once does he ever prescribe a universal philosophy
Which is it, you pseud fuck?

[Anonymous No.14092500]

>>14092206
>antisemitism and nationalism
>unrelated to national socialism

It seems that your understanding of national socialism leaves a lot to be desired, let's put it this way

[Anonymous No.14092564]

>All in all, Nietzsche was an opponent of socialism, an opponent of nationalism, and an opponent of racial thinking. Apart from these bents of mind, he might have made an outstanding Nazi.

[Anonymous No.14092584]

>>14092105
Honestly, I think it’s because Nietzsche was somewhat vague either intentionally or unintentionally and he had so many ideas that they could be applied to a wide range of things. It really benefits leftists to be able to adopt Nietzschean ideas as their own and they’ve had great success in doing so. See Kalergi, architect of the EU, and his thoughts on Nietzsche and the Jewish diaspora. Anything implying that his ideas would suggest ideology in the opposite direction would be devastating for them even though it clearly did. He was supportive of aristocratic rule and despised egalitarianism. He also embraced suffering and pain and the view of life as tragedy which is something Heidegger also did just before he joined the Nazi party. Nietzsche may not have been a very big fan of National Socialism, but National Socialism at some level even if it wasn’t directly inspired by him was Nietzschean. As to his sister, I often hear the claim that she edited his works to misrepresent his ideas as similar to those of the NSDAP, but I’ve never seen anything actually supporting this.

[Anonymous No.14093353]

>>14092441
>links to Wikipedia page as an argument
This is bait or you're way in over your head. Either way, you keep dismissing what I referred to which directly refutes your stance on the matter as if it wasn't written by him.

>>14092471
His politics involve prescribing various philosophies, as I've already quoted him saying. The only "universal" philosophy he offers is one which deems universals irrelevant. "Pseud fuck."

>>14092500
It seems you don't have an argument like just about everyone else in this thread.

>>14092584
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.14094212]

>>14092116
Do you have an example of an ideology that isn't a meme?

[Anonymous No.14094228]

>>14094212
ta/acc

[Anonymous No.14094245]

>>14094228
I see...

[Anonymous No.14094753]

>>14093353
What argument are you talking about you fucking retard you said that nationalism and antisemitism have nothing to do with Nazism. Why would anyone take you seriously when you are this fucking clueless.

[Anonymous No.14094837]

Nazism accepts an essentially limited form of utilitarianism as its moral system, but it restricts it in the realm of the nation instead of humanity as a whole. Their goal was the good of Germanic people. Nietzsche's view is that there is fundamentally two classes of people, the higher and the lower ones. The higher are unrestricted by morality and they can use the lower however they please (case in point: Napoleon), while the rest of the humanity are just nameless masses with barely any value. The fun part is that Nazitards are always raving about how individualism is a disease of liberal democracies that endangers the stability of society, while Nietzsche's ideal is complete individualism and lack of concern about the influence of one's actions to the prosperity of the masses.

[Anonymous No.14095200]

>>14094753
Other anon use of the word unrelated is ill chosen but you are as dense as he is not understanding what he obviously means.

[Anonymous No.14095255]

>>14092223
National socialism is perhaps the single most consistent anti-traditional ideology ever devised to be practiced. Only Maoism goes further, excluding small ideologies that never gathered support.
They systematically targeted traditional elites, both personally and in their lifestyles. They disregarded both tradition of law and the very notion of tradition of law. They desperately tried to fuck over the canons of churches. They denied entire segments of history that didn't fit well into their vision of their people. They suppressed historically acquired statuses and liberties of their constituents, as it still remained in Weimar.

[Anonymous No.14095304]

>Nietzsche parodies, mocks and makes shameful the herd mentality
>Fascism is herd mentality par excellence, and leads to immediate self destruction
All this does is vindicate him.

[Anonymous No.14095340]

>>14094837
The project of his work is to make the lower kind of man ashamed, to make him feel stupid, to preach that his existence is what leads to extinction and nihilism. Nietzsche's philosophy is intended to cure the lower men. Read Zarathustra. He is a preacher, a man who wants to remake humanity into something new. The eternal recurrence is a nightmare, not a dream.

[Anonymous No.14095393]

>>14095340
No you haven't understood him at all. He thinks that ordinary morality is perfectly appropriate for most people, his point is that it's only good for the plebs and should never take hold of higher natures. Nihilism is the result of higher men losing faith in themselves, leading to the stagnation of culture. Read the Will to Power. And I don't know if you are the OP but I already explained why this philosophy has nothing to do with Nazism.

[Anonymous No.14095427]

>>14095393
Then why is The Genealogy such a refined and ruthless deconstruction of Christian morals? Why does he not once in this ever preach them for the higher men to use in service of his own goals, but instead do nothing but tear them apart? Why does he channel a religious prophet, the first one to entangle metaphyics to morals, and tries to disentagle them? Thus Spoke Zarathustra is subtitled "A book for everyone and no one," not a book for the higher men.

Read the conception of the eternal return in The Gay Science. It is a nightmare, to continue to live life half-willing, to all men, not a dream to the lower men.

Don't you know what "philosophizing with a hammer means??" He wants to DESTROY idols, not preserve them.

[Anonymous No.14095434]

>>14095340
>Nietzsche's philosophy is intended to cure the lower men
retard

[Anonymous No.14095447]

>>14095340
the very first thing Zarathustra learns in the book is that the common people are not ready for/capable of his philosophy

[Anonymous No.14095459]

>>14095447
Which is why he says he is too early, not that it is impossible. Nietzsche expresses this in his own words in BGaE. He says he thinks like the current of the ganges and everyone else like the turtle, or maybe the frog. He is expressing his tendency to think of man in the far future. You are the turtle, obsessed with the immediate past and future.

[Anonymous No.14095469]

>>14094212
the eternal science of marxist-leninism

[Anonymous No.14095498]

this is fucking piss poor. The Will to Power wasn't even a book that Nietzsche wrote, it was compiled from scraps of his writings.

In Nietzsche's previous books he constantly goes on about how he's against the state in any way, against any kind of politics... Nietzsche is FOR CULTURE, he thinks that the best cultural moments in history are always apolitical. the Nazi's never achieved any 'cultural' significance, they fucking burned books

to say a culture is 'Nietzschean' would be to say that it is absolutely AGAINST slave morality, but the nazi's whole ideology was based on resentment. there is no 'overcoming' of morality or mans worst instincts here at all, Hitler was a 'strong man', not an Overman

Zarathustra is Nietzsche's own favourite book, and there is nothing in there even remotely compatible with National Socialism.

[Anonymous No.14095508]

>>14094837
>Nazism
>utilitarian
It's idealism, you fucking brainlet

[Anonymous No.14095513]

>>14095498
>but the nazi's whole ideology was based on resentment.
citation needed

[Anonymous No.14095516]

>>14095459
and you just assume we are in the far-future he intonates towards?

[Anonymous No.14095519]

>>14095513
>antisemitism isn't resentment
kek

[Anonymous No.14095527]

>>14095519
>implying all dislike of people is borne of resentment
>implying National Socialism is entirely predicated on anti semitism

[Anonymous No.14095541]

>>14095516
No, but this is where I derive Nietzsche's teleology. He does not say that there are lower men, and there are higher men, there always will be, and the higher men should dominate the lower men and bring about eternal destruction and war. Again, the eternal recurrence is brought about as a nightmare, if I recall the passage correctly, it is the worst nightmare you can think.

What Nietzsche is trying to do is cure the man of ressentiment, to make him feel ashamed and stupid of it. Ressentiment is the triumph of the slave AS the slave. It is the slave who is happy to be a slave, the lower man is happy to be the lower man.

[Anonymous No.14095552]

>>14095527
look I get that fascism can be separated from anti-Semitism but national socialism cannot. it was a core tenant of the movement. and if you don't think it was resentment you are just blind:
>muh jews took all muh good money
>muh jews stole all my good women
>we must punish the evil jews!

[Anonymous No.14095560]

>>14095552
You're correct that antisemitism is intrinsic to National Socialism, but they are not synonymous with each other, nor is antisemitism even the main groundwork for National Socialism. It's more like a corollary . Further, not all dislikes of a group are necessarily resentful attitudes.

[Anonymous No.14095565]

>>14095513

seriously? it wasn't like the Nazi's were saying 'yo, don't worry guys, we got this, we get through anything life throws at us'... they literally pinned their entire self worth on eradicating the people they saw as more economically advantaged than them

that is some seriously weak shit that Nietzsche would fucking hate

[Anonymous No.14095567]

>>14092118
Will to power is inextricable from Elizabeth, it wouldn't exist without her. It's a compilation of drafts and notes that may or may not have found their way into publication, but there's really no way to lump everything in the book together that's free from her influence.

[Anonymous No.14095569]

>>14095565
>they literally pinned their entire self worth on eradicating the people they saw as more economically advantaged than them
citation needed
> it wasn't like the Nazi's were saying 'yo, don't worry guys, we got this, we get through anything life throws at us'
That's literally what they were saying

[Anonymous No.14095570]

>>14095560
so you agree then? antisemitism is intrinsic to national socialism, and their brand of antisemitism is peak resentment, therefore resentment is intrinsic to national socialism
>not all dislikes of a group are necessarily resentful attitudes
I don't know why you keep saying this. I don't care about "all dislikes"; national socialism was founded around the naked resentment of jews

[Anonymous No.14095575]

>>14095570
>their brand of antisemitism is peak resentment
wrong
>national socialism was founded around the naked resentment of jews
No it wasnt. Again, National Socialism is not synonymous with antisemitism.

[Anonymous No.14095591]

>>14095575
you already conceded that it was an intrinsic element to the movement, it doesn't need to be synonymous to be related you mong. since it's plainly obvious German antisemitism at the time follows the model of resentment presented in GoM, are you trying to say Nietzsche was wrong about resentment? because I have no idea how you would try and argue that the form of antisemitism the national socialists operated on wasn't textbook resentment

[Anonymous No.14095595]

>>14095569
the only citation needed is for you to cite N's previous work with your eyeballs

[Anonymous No.14095639]

>>14095591
Yes it's intrinsic, but not the cause for the movement. Its not even the underlying principle of the movment. It's only one aspect of it. My contention with you is that you present National Socialism as being grounded wholly in antisemitism, like its the wellspring for the ideology.
My second contention is that neither National Socialism nor their brand of antisemitism is resentful. Imagine getting punched in the face and then punching back. Punching back is not an act of resentment. To call it resentment is to say it was unjustified and purely born out of jealousy and spite, which is a ridiculous notion.

[Anonymous No.14095665]

the newest penguin edition of Will to Power is the most unedited

[Anonymous No.14095696]

>>14095639
>Yes it's intrinsic, but its not even the underlying principle of the movment
intrinsic means essential, as in it would not be national socialism of it weren't antisemetic. I can't tell if you are esl, a brainlet, or both
>To call it resentment is to say it was unjustified
quote me one time Nietzsche said that. it's based around the inversion of good/bad schema into good/evil. you sound uneducated as fuck anon, not gunna lie

[Anonymous No.14095703]

>>14095639
I think it's quite clear that without the Jews, the ideology of the Nazi's would not have existed. they pinned the economic devastation and humiliation of WWI on a race of people who had nothing to do with those losses. So it's not punching back. Punching back in a 'master morality' way might be "watch us economically and culturally succeed despite the war reparations and land loss". the way they chose was resentment.

even just 'socialism' in the general sense is resentment to nietzsche. 'if all the rich bankers disappeared, the working class would be liberated'. it's basic Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.14095737]

>>14095340
>The eternal recurrence is a nightmare, not a dream
The whole point is that you should look forward to eternal recurrence because you're supposed to affirm life you pseud retard

[Anonymous No.14095757]

>>14092206
Imagine being this fucking dumb. How can someone be this incredulous?

[Anonymous No.14095779]

>>14095696
>intrinsic means essential
It is essential to it, but not the cause of it. It is not the fruit of antisemitism, but rather antisemitism is the fruit of National Socialism. I really dont understand why this point continues to go over your head.
>quote me one time Nietzsche said that
I dont really care what Nietzsche said.
>>14095703
Thats a serious oversimplification and misrepresentation of National Socialism
> race of people who had nothing to do with those losses
This is also historically false. Jews supported the Allies over Germany.
> 'if all the rich bankers disappeared, the working class would be liberated'
This is not National Socialist ideology

[Anonymous No.14095795]

>>14095779
>I really dont understand why this point continues to go over your head
it's a fucking non-sequitur, I have never claimed nazis were the fruit of antisemitism you literal retard. nothing in my analysis requires this to be true

[Anonymous No.14095811]

>>14095779
>This is not National Socialist ideology

jeez louise

[Anonymous No.14095830]

>>14095795
from >>14095498
>the nazi's whole ideology was based on resentment
The whole ideology is not based on antisemitism, hence our disagreement. Your original claim was that National Socialism was based on resentment, rather than it being intrinsic to it. And I still disagree that the antisemitism even an object of resentment anyway.
Unless you're a different anon from that poster, in which case maybe you have a different point.

[Anonymous No.14095835]

>>14095737
Yeah dude whatever. I meant its a nightmare if you're a life denier, and im using this to argue that Nietzsche wanted to destroy life denial, not preserve it in lower men for the higher men to exploit.

[Anonymous No.14095839]

>>14095830
retard

[Anonymous No.14095841]

>>14095811
The National Socialists didn't even bother with class consciousness. Maybe if you said the German nation would be "liberated" you may be more accurate, but even then the contention isn't with rich bankers, but rather usury and currency manipulation.

[Anonymous No.14095852]

>>14095839
Then dont intercede for someone else's argument and act like you're defending that person's point.

[Anonymous No.14095874]

>>14095852
I interceded on your argument that antisemitism wasn't a form of resentment (actually I just laughed at you if we are being precise). are you having trouble following basic lines of argumentation?

[Anonymous No.14095882]

>>14095830
we are different anons, but we are both arguing Nietzsche's points here, rather than our own opinions. If you want to know why the NatSocs were wrong about Nietzsche you have to read the books he actually wrote while he was alive. There you will find his key ideas about resentment and slave morality that is fundamentally opposed to Socialism, Nationalism, National Socialism, Anti-Semitism, and pretty much every other ism under the sun

[Anonymous No.14095905]

>>14095874
>changes subject of argument altogether
>durrrr can you even into arguing?

[Anonymous No.14095920]

>>14095905
You made the point that antisemitism isn't a form of resentment, that's what the conversation was about. I never changed the subject, that was literally the subject of YOUR post lmao

[Anonymous No.14096254]

>>14095427
>Then why is The Genealogy such a refined and ruthless deconstruction of Christian morals?
Because it wasn't written for plebs, it was written for the higher men.

> Why does he not once in this ever preach them for the higher men to use in service of his own goals, but instead do nothing but tear them apart?
But he DOES say for the higher men to use Christian morals in service of their own goals in both The Antichrist and Will to Power. I quoted a passage from the latter earlier in the thread that shows one such instance of where he promotes the idea of serving different ideologies to different groups of people here >>14092301

>Don't you know what "philosophizing with a hammer means??" He wants to DESTROY idols, not preserve them.
In the eyes of the higher men, his future philosophers and great men. Him promoting a politics that utilizes certain ideologies that he criticizes is not meant as an act of preservation of these ideologies.

>>14095541
>Again, the eternal recurrence is brought about as a nightmare, if I recall the passage correctly, it is the worst nightmare you can think.
It's initially posed not as a dream or a nightmare. However, for Nietzsche's higher men, his "hyperboreans," it is a dream—see pic related.

>What Nietzsche is trying to do is cure the man of ressentiment, to make him feel ashamed and stupid of it.
But he also acknowledges that the mediocre man exists and says in The Antichrist that it is the duty of the hyperboreans to respect the mediocre man's mediocrity.

>>14095552
Nazism is NOT an antisemitic political ideology, it is an asemitic one. The difference being that antisemitism is founded on ressentiment towards Semites, whereas asemitism is founded on a will to power that is naturally antithetical to Semitic wills to power. Nietzsche's philosophy, which Nazism was based on, is also asemitic—the most thoroughly asemitic philosophy ever offered in history, by the way—and this is why he can praise Jews in one passage and then condemn everything they stand for as being lies in another. He possesses no ressentiment towards them, but he acknowledges that they are, by nature, antithetical to his, and that their nature has almost completely incensed the nature of his people.

You're confusing NatSoc for being intrinsically antisemitic because the Nazi leaders read Nietzsche and understood his advocacy of using different ideologies as masks as part of the NatSoc plan, so they garnered the support of the antisemitic plebs in Germany, and then the media of the Allies exaggerated the value of these plebs to the Nazis in order to garner support against them in the war. This is a very complex matter, and one that can be easily overlooked, if you don't spend a tremendous amount of time reading Nietzsche and the Nazis and trying to understand how they thought and worked.

[Anonymous No.14096456]

>>14096254
i'm not the anon most of these points are aimed at, but i would just say that reading N with direct political intent is really not the goal of his writings. There isn't a politics here, but an individual philosophy.

'Everyone and No-one' as was quoted somewhere above already, Nietzsche is writing to individuals, people like him, who wish to achieve something with their lives, to achieve 'greatness', regardless or against the grain of the crowd, who otherwise may have been stuck within a herd mentality themselves.

ideally he would like to bring all people with him into a life affirmative world, but as he's not an idealist, he see's, as does Zarathustra, the true difficulty in actually managing to tear people away from the comfort of their slave mentality. it's easier to blame outside forces than to accept responsibility.

to become aware of the roots of morality, as a means of self-soothing, of accepting weakness when there seems no longer hope, is actually to do yourself an injustice. because to live without a will to power, or, a 'will to control your own life', is to deny life itself.

this is his whole shit in a terrible nutshell, an attempt to transcend nihilism and resignation, not any kind of political project.

he definitely isn't for a type of politics that takes advantage of the masses. that's just a description of regular liberal democracy's attitude toward 'dumb voters'

there are countless examples of anti-german, anti-nationalist, anti-antisemitic quotes i could pull from Nietzsche, Ecce Homo is full of it

[Anonymous No.14096480]

>>14096456
The Antichrist has political statements in it (i.e., statements regarding social hierarchy and how the upper and lower ranks treat or ought to treat one another), as does Will to Power. The idea that Nietzsche wasn't at all into politics is unfounded and simply based on the fact that he overall didn't spend much time on politics.

[Anonymous No.14096571]

>>14096480
yes but you seem to think the peak take away here is the Machiavellian cliché "you can lie to the masses and get what you want" which is super fucking trite at best

[Anonymous No.14096587]

>>14096571
He almost literally writes that in the passage posted above. I don't understand what you don't understand about that.

[Anonymous No.14096772]

>>14092206
The national socialists may not have been supporters of wider nationalist movements, but they most certainly were antisemitic.

[Anonymous No.14096778]

>>14096254
Dont you see how Nietzsche is parodying the Nazi in this passage? Dont you see how he shows the contradictions of the type of man he describes? That he enhances institutions that weaken the will, he is beyond good and evil yet preaches it. This is a parody of the "Good Europeans." Nietzsche was not a european nationalist, or a german nationalist. He parodied these things. This is not the first time in his writing he parodied "Good Europeans."

This passage you have posted if it is not a parody, is contrary to The Genealogy, contrary to Zarathustra. If it is a parody, it fits like a glove. Do you not see what is more likely?

[Anonymous No.14096824]

>>14096778
>i-it's a parody
I bet you think The Prince is satire, too.

>Dont you see how he shows the contradictions of the type of man he describes?
There aren't any contradictions. In another passage from WTP, he notes that socialism can be used as a step towards combating the growing effeminacy in Europe. This is the same philosopher who praises a group of people in one book and then lambasts them with criticism in another. His philosophy doesn't work how you think it works if you think these are contradictions.

[Anonymous No.14096846]

>>14096254
>Nazism is NOT an antisemitic political ideology, it is an asemitic one. The difference being that antisemitism is founded on ressentiment towards Semites, whereas asemitism is founded on a will to power that is naturally antithetical to Semitic wills to power. Nietzsche's philosophy, which Nazism was based on
this is some of the most potent bait I have ever read

[Anonymous No.14096856]

>>14096824
dude, please just read genealogy of morals or something. its getting embarrasing.

a few paragraphs before all this he says ‘an incalculable number of higher individuals perish’, so what now?

and a few more paragraphs before that he says ‘Kant is a scarecrow’

Nietzsche almost always courts pure absurdity, parody and irony

[Anonymous No.14096862]

>>14096846
It's not bait. People don't grasp Nietzsche's philosophy all that well. He attacks antisemitism but also condemns everything Christian as rooted in Judaism and the Jews as the biggest liars in history who made everything that was previously natural into something unnatural and hideous, and people think he's contradicting himself when he does these things in a single lifetime, but only because they don't grasp him. They don't see how his philosophy works, so they don't see how there's no contradiction in that.

[Anonymous No.14096869]

>>14096856
I've read all his books. Where's your argument?

>a few paragraphs before all this he says ‘an incalculable number of higher individuals perish’, so what now?
What do you think that means, exactly?

[Anonymous No.14096879]

>>14096862
>It's not bait
then you are patently handicapped

[Anonymous No.14096881]

>>14096879
No argument, just insults. Fitting for an incompetent retard such as yourself.

[Anonymous No.14096921]

>>14096869
>What do you think that means, exactly?

i think it means you nailed it, well done

[Anonymous No.14096980]

>>14096921
§131 is referring to the corrosive death grip that slave society has on the "higher type."

Also, the "Good Europeans" bit at the beginning of §132 doesn't indicate that the entire passage is a parody. He's mocking the fact that people refer to the higher type as "good" when what the higher type is now capable of is something extremely devious.

[Anonymous No.14097188]

>>14095508
It is clearly a form of utilitarianism, just limited to the level of the state. It's certainly neither a rights-based morality neither a form of virtue ethics. And what do you mean by "idealism" there is no such term in political or moral philosophy. The term only applies to metaphysics, which has nothing to do with what are we discussing. Unless you are talking about "idealism" in the ordinary sense of having lofty goals, in which case it does not describe a moral philosophy or a political ideology at all.

[Anonymous No.14097213]

>>14096881
how do you even argue against something as braintlet as that take? would you argue against someone who says rain falls upwards?

[Anonymous No.14097221]

>>14092118
then it would just be a collection of half-there manuscripts like marx's paris manuscripts

[Anonymous No.14097248]

>>14097213
That would be a very easy argument to win, you could just post videos of rain and ask the guy to post counter examples. Also the processes by which rain evaporates and condenses and falls are pretty well understood, and when it moves upward it's a local thing due to strong winds acting in a weird way.

To argue against anon's take that an Ubermensch can be anti-jew if he wants is a lot more complicated seeing as there is no clear definition of what the ubermensch is really.

[Anonymous No.14097306]

>>14097213
What's the alternative take? "Nietzsche was insane/mentally ill and contradicted himself" or some other such juvenile crap?

[Anonymous No.14097342]

>mfw I realize these Nietzsche was a nazi posters are Evolafags
I am going to read that retard and show him how fucking dimwitted his understanding of Nietzsche is compared Deleuze. Evola is a guy who literally believes in magic.

[Anonymous No.14097385]

>>14097248
>he doesn't get it
anon look at any of the natsoc propaganda against jews lmao, there's the video of the rain
>>14097306
Neitzsche hated antisemites, German nationalists, and Jewish ideologues. of you think this is a) impossible, or b) evidence he would have supported natsoc, you are daft

[Anonymous No.14097414]

>>14097385
>Neitzsche hated antisemites, German nationalists, and Jewish ideologues.
Yes, and he hated them because they represented different aspects of unnaturalness which served to hurt the creation of the ubermensch and the higher type; the chandala, who now rule society, after the Jews reversed nature into its opposite. However, he does not, at ANY point in his writings, say that these can never be utilized by the higher type as part of a grander orchestration, and he DOES say that the higher type

a) must treat the mediocre man gently, and allow him his happiness in mediocrity

and

b) is capable of and willing to wear many masks while striving towards goals, and in fact is attracted to doing so.

Nazism was not only its form among its lower ranks. It had a form only the higher rank had access to, which wasn't antisemitic, but asemitic instead. Such an organization is precisely what Nietzsche prescribed.

[Anonymous No.14097484]

Stop quoting Evola's ideas when arguing about what Nietzsche thought for fuck's sake

[Anonymous No.14097496]

Evolafags are afraid to say their philosophy is literally based on magic because of how embarassed they are of its stupidity.

[Anonymous No.14097502]

>>14097484
If you're responding to the poster above yours, I've never read Evola. Evola obviously just read Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.14097513]

>>14092105
daily reminder that Nietzsche's best friend was a Jew and that he explicitly despised anti-semites all throughout his career

[Anonymous No.14097516]

Nietzsche's ideal was endless war and domination reoccurring eternally and everybody willfully ignores this because they are too terrified that such an intelligent and sensitive man could propose such a thing

Ragnar Redbeard and icycalm are the only writers who have ever understood him

[Anonymous No.14097552]

>>14097516
And I'm not saying this because I'm a typical 4chan(nel) edgelord either. I'm a huge pussy and I just want everyone to live in peace and harmony. But if you're like me, you read Nietzsche, and afterwards you're not living in a permanent anxiety-ridden waking nightmare where all your ideals of love and empathy and altruism turn out to be symptoms of your own weakness then you are being intellectually dishonest.

[Anonymous No.14097612]

>>14097513
Daily reminder that the Nazis were deporting most of the Jews rather than killing them.

[Anonymous No.14097825]

>>14092116
Said the postnational

[Anonymous No.14097860]

>>14092247
Read Kierkegaard before Nietzsche, too.

[Anonymous No.14098297]

yes, Nietzsche believed lying is good, utilitarianism is good, anything other than nature is bad, and the creation of a weak and docile population through politics and war. he was the most profound philosopher of trite observations we have ever known

[Anonymous No.14098299]

>>14098297
there are people that really believe this

[Anonymous No.14098390]

>>14092223
>t. unironically brainwashed by jewish media

[Anonymous No.14098408]

>>14095498
>they fucking burned books
the burned comunist and porno lit, nothing of value was lost

[Anonymous No.14098738]

>>14098297
>lying is good
Lies which foster a fundamental unnaturalness in things aren't. But because of perspectivism, we are all following lies our whole lives, in a sense—even the philosopher lies, as Nietzsche said. Lies can be part of our naturalness and always are, and part of becoming healthy and always are.

>utilitarianism is good
As a means, yes. Is there a problem with that?

>anything other than nature is bad
Again, what's the problem? And because of perspectivism, because nothing is equal, what is natural for one is not necessarily natural for the other. He says this all the time, and even says that the atavistic "holy lies" which the Jews espoused in order to reverse the whole world order at the time were spun from their nature (though they learned it from the Aryans, he notes), they came naturally to them, which is why they excelled at it and won.

>the creation of a weak and docile population through politics and war.
He never meant this as a goal, only as a stage. In WTP he also writes:

>Socialism is merely a means of agitation employed by individualism: it grasps that, to attain anything, one must organize oneself to a collective action, to a "power." But what it desires is not a social order as the goal of the individual but a social order as a means for making possible many individuals: this is the instinct of socialists about which they frequently deceive themselves (—apart from the fact that, in order to prevail, they frequently have to deceive themselves). The preaching of altruistic morality in the service of individual egoism: one of the most common lies of the nineteenth century. Anarchism, too, is merely a means of agitation employed by socialism; by means of it, socialism arouses fear, by means of fear it begins to fascinate and to terrorize: above all—it draws the courageous, the daring to its side, even in the most spiritual matters.

We're talking about a philosopher who adored the military, who adored individuals who had already implemented such politics (like Napoleon), who considered nothing equal, who was against all idealism (which is perfectionism, finality, absolutism) for breeding nihilism. Why is it "trite" or even surprising to you that he would prescribe a hierarchy of rank based on perspectivism and wish to implement this hierarchy militarily?

[Anonymous No.14098844]

>>14098738
>Lies which foster a fundamental unnaturalness in things aren't.

first of all i don’t know where you get the idea of Nietzsche’s adherence to the idea of ‘nature’ - physiology, yes. psychology, yes. but nature vs unnature would be purely a social construct

what nietzsche believes is in the fundemental role ‘metaphor’ plays in our understanding of all things, a word is a metaphor of a metaphor, so truth is always a metaphor at best, that doesn’t mean he discovered lies to be totally badass or something

>utilitarianism is good

utilitarianism is antithical to his beleif in struggle as a inherent part of a life worth living

at this point i’m inclined to believe you are simply trolling because you are adhering to an anti-nietzschean interpretation of nietzsche

>why is it trite/hierarchy blah blah

what exactly is hierarchical about a society with a supreme leader and a subservient population of perfectly ayrian last men? in terms of the lives of the people in that society there would be absolutely nothing Nietzschean about it, no conflict, no strife, nothing but last men

[Anonymous No.14098873]

>>14097342
>Evola is a guy who literally believes in magic
:O

[Anonymous No.14098976]

>>14092105
Nietzsche was neither nationalist nor a socialist and the nazi's knew this. Hitler didn't really like Nietzsche at all, just used him for some ardent quotes.

[Anonymous No.14099074]

holy shit this natsoc cope in this thread is too much for me

[Anonymous No.14099098]

>>14092116
National Socialism is the way leafo.

[Anonymous No.14099262]

>>14092301
sounds like he's putting words into the mouth of a ventriloquist's dummy